I don't get it ...

by kjk on Oct 19, 2005 8:56 PM CDT Comment 44 comments

... I really don't. What's with all the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth in Cubdom? People seem to be genuinely afraid of what some White Sox fans have to say. Sure some people (Sox and Cub fans both) are jerks, but they would be jerks no matter what team they rooted for.

I'm rooting for my town. The town I've moved away from and returned to a few times now. I'm rooting for the branch of my family that roots for the White Sox. I'm hoping that people I love have something to be happy about! And if it means I need to take a few jabs from some jerks. So be it! It's not the worst thing that can happen to a person....

Go White Sox!

Wearing some black and white proudly!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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well,

from the title of this diary, I would agree--you don't get it. There are a few who feel the way you do, but it's clearly in the minority.

by socalbob on Oct 19, 2005 9:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

minority ...

doesn't make it wrong.

wanna try to explain?

by kjk on Oct 19, 2005 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

where did I say

you were wrong? I said your feelings are in the minority. You can read various threads in here to see that. And it's the same on other web sites. I will never root for White Sox teams, ever. You don't get that. Not a matter of right or wrong. You just have a different view.

by socalbob on Oct 19, 2005 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not wrong ...

OK, but i still don't understand WHY i'm in the minority.

What is it about the majority that is so concerned with what Sox Fans think about Cub fans?

I'm sure that isn't the primary motivation for anti-sox-ism for every Cub fan, but it is a pretty powerful theme in all the blogs i read (and trust me, i read a lot of them).

by kjk on Oct 19, 2005 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are in the minority because...

My 3 theories:

(1) It's how people were raised. Ie., Dad cheers for Cubs. Dad hates white sox. Dad is Catholic. etc. etc.

(2) It isnt really about Cubs vs. Sox. Cubs vs. Sox is a proxy for Northside vs. Southside divisions generally. In other words, it's not the laundry that anyone cares about. It's northside vs. southside. Chicago is not really truly one big city. It's at least two and maybe more. Lifetime residents on the Northside couldnt tell you what Archer and 54th was like and have probably never been there. Ditto for Southsiders trying to describe Rogers Park. For those in and out of the City or born and raised elsewhere, "Chicago" means everything from Tinley Park to Schaumburg (and points beyond). But for those long-time residents and those raised on the Norhtside of the City, Southside might as well be Detroit and vice versa...

(3) ... but unfortunately this is a "detroit" that happens to be one you interact with on a daily basis so you will hear it from them how the team won and yours hasnt.

Ok, that's my theory(s).

But like Socal says, it's subjective and arbitrary. And no matter who is rooting for whom, it makes no difference how much you hope at your TV for a particular outcome. No difference at all to the outcome (ok, Socal, call me obvious, I can take it :-) ).

But I do agree with you. This hand-wringing over "we'll have to take so much sh%*$ from the sox fans now" is so overblown. we already do. we always will. yankees fans still taunt red sox fans, that didnt change, just the insult is different this year.

NLBallClub

by NLBallClub on Oct 20, 2005 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow

Thanks for your theories, NL. They might explain my attitude because I've lived all over the city at different times: As far South as Hyde Park, as far West as Cicero as far North as Jeff Park and as far East as Lincoln Park! (not to mention the other places that were not extreme!)

by kjk on Oct 20, 2005 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i like your explanation

BallClub, thats good stuff. Probably true. I recently (a few years ago) found out my dad is a much bigger Sox fan than a Cubs fan. He likes both somehow, but now I have no idea where I got the Cubs love from.

Anyway, maybe there is too much hand wringing, if you will, but I'm still not going to cheer for the damn Sox. I dont like them, the winning for Chicago thing doesnt make any sense to me, so go Houston. I love the idea of Clemens retiring.

by Slaky311 on Oct 20, 2005 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well said

it's rather simplistic, but some don't understand the passion behind the dislike for anything "White Sox" and some don't understand the passion for "Chicago" and then there's a group that doesn't undertand the lack of "rooting for one team."

Like I said, it's okay that we don't get each other and it's neither right or wrong.

by socalbob on Oct 20, 2005 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that sums it up pretty well

also, do Mets fans cheer for the Yankees every year the Yankees make the playoffs? Did Oakland cheer for the Giants and did Dodger fans cheer the Angels in 2002? (well, maybe due to the Giant/Dodger rivalry)

if you are a very casual baseball fan in chicago, i could understand rooting for a hometown team, regardless of who they are. but those life long fans who grew up watching the Cubs on WGN arn't going to jump on the bandwagon.

by mkamper on Oct 21, 2005 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm hardly ...

... a casual fan ...

by kjk on Oct 21, 2005 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

SoCal is weird

Dodger fans did, in fact, cheer for the Angels over the Giants, for the same reason that some of us would have cheered for the White Sox over the Cardinals. The NoCal/SoCal rivalry is probably bigger than the LA/OC rivalry.

But in truth, the Dodgers/Angels rivalry is really less than two years old. Most Southern Californians I met when I moved out here six years ago cheered for both the Dodgers and the Angels, and nobody thought that was the least bit strange. The Dodgers were so dominant in fan loyalties that no one really even thought of the Angels as a rival. It was kind of like cheering for the LA Lakers and UCLA at the same time. It wasn't an issue.

All that has changed since Arte Moreno bought the Angels and declared themselves to be an LA team. (Which happened before the name change, actually) That, combined with the Parking Lot Attendant (Frank McCourt) buying the Dodgers and alienating a lot of fans with his moves has caused the teams to fall into more of an equilibrium. Fox Sports West has just offered the Angels the same money they pay the Dodgers, for example. This has caused some Dodger fans to decide that they were Angel fans all along and others to decide they hate everything red and Orange County.

But this rivalry is just beginning. It isn't anything close to the Cubs/White Sox or Mets/Yankees. Heck, it's only just getting to Giants/Athletics territory now.

I never travel far without a little Big Star

by Josh77 on Oct 21, 2005 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's why it's called...

a rivalry.

by mkamper on Oct 19, 2005 9:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

but is it?

For the most part (at least in my circle of Cubdom) the White Sox have been more or less irrelevant (as competition).

I would argue that is because they have been just about as pathetic as the Cubs for the past half century.

Suddenly it's a rivaly (on Cub fans part) because the White Sox are succeeding while the Cubs continue to fail?

Still doesn't make sense to me ...

by kjk on Oct 19, 2005 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is not..

A new rivalry, not to me at least. Them playing well may add a little fuel to the fire, but it did not start it.

Different circles I suppose.

by Yepsen on Oct 19, 2005 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's always

been a rivalry. Cub fans and Sox fans have always bantered back and forth about which team is better. Not sure of where you grew up, but ti's always been that way.

IL play has fueled the fires even more now that they actually play each other.

It's as good a rivalry as there is in baseball.

by socalbob on Oct 19, 2005 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i grew up in chicago ...

... in a family and neighborhood (Pilson) mixed with cub and sox fans.

Bantering is one thing, but this "insecurity" in Cubdom that I sense is unbearable. That's my main point. Cub fans seem to taking it way too seriously all of a sudden.

by kjk on Oct 19, 2005 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pilsen ...

that is ...

by kjk on Oct 19, 2005 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Go ASTROS!!!!

By your thinking that we are all suppose to love the city first and foremost no matter what, so if Daley ran for President we should all vote for him, right? Even if we don't like him or his style or his croonies (fans) that he has around him. Nope, not me!!!

I am glad I am in the majority in this one. GO ASTROS!!

by mannytrillo on Oct 19, 2005 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

manny

I am with you and socalbob 100%.

I dont get why you would suddenly root for the White Sox. Thats just me. I dont get it. So there you go.

by Slaky311 on Oct 20, 2005 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again ...

my point isn't that we should root for one team or the other. (i gave the reasoning behind my choice just to add some context. i know people who will root for the 'stros because it's NL vs AL for them.)

this doesn't apply to everyone, of course, but i'm commenting on so many cub fans who are all worried about getting crap from sox fans. that seems to be their motivation for rooting against the wsox. it's not about baseball; it's not about the teams; it's about the fans!

are we really so thin-skinned that getting crap matters so much to us?

by kjk on Oct 20, 2005 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

kjk

it isn't "thin skinned" as you wrote. It's okay--you said it best--you just don't get it. A lot of people don't think the way you do. It's really no big deal.

by socalbob on Oct 20, 2005 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody...

in my family likes baseball, so I have no reason to cheer for another team because of family.

It's pretty simple. It's a rivalry and I'm jealous. I can't help it. I'm jealous and that is why I don't like anything Sox right now from the fans to the team to the Cell.

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Oct 19, 2005 10:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh...

and there is no way it is just going to be a few jabs by Sox fans. They are champions for a whole year. They will have a lot of time on their hands. Go Astros.

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Oct 19, 2005 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not insecurity...

..it's the fact that no matter White Sox fans said about the Cubs in the past, neither team had success in the postseason. I was at Busch Stadium in '04. A fan said to me "Look at all those flags", meaning the championship banners. Now when it comes to the White Sox, if they win the Series, all White Sox fans have to say is "Kiss the Ring". Only one thing matters in sports, winning. If they win, then until the Cubs win a World Series you're going to (rightly) here about it. Meanwhile Cubs marketing is probably already planning the celebration of 100 years without winning a World Series.

by jolietconvict on Oct 20, 2005 6:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

sad but true

"Meanwhile Cubs marketing is probably already planning the celebration of 100 years without winning a World Series."

Don't laugh, it's only 2 1/2 years away.

2006 -- AC026097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Oct 20, 2005 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes...

I seriously think that is their plan. Sometimes I think they are waiting to win it all when the number sounds more magical. One hundred, a three digit even number.

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Oct 20, 2005 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Go Sox

Living in Houston, I would have to listen to obnoxious Astro Bandwagoners (not fans) every day. Quite frankly, it sickens me. I live far away from Chicago, so the city rival really does not affect me.

by Ienpw on Oct 20, 2005 12:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

I'm rooting for the Astros because I'm hoping if they win that Clemens will retire. (It's great to watch such an incredible pitcher, but I'd rather watch him in the other league.) Sox-Cubs has nothing to do with it. For me, it's all about what's likely to give the Cubs a better chance at winning next year.

by helen on Oct 20, 2005 1:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

KJK

...is making more sense than most here.
The uniforms say "CHICAGO." I'm a Chicago native.
I'd like to see a "CHICAGO" World Series in my lifetime. I'd rather it be the CUBS...

But, guess what gang -- it ain't us in the World Series. Get over it. This is historic. I've posted this time and time again -- you people are way too sensitive to the point of being paranoid. Who gives a s**t about what some White Sox fan says? I've put up with crap from Padres fans since 1984, and there's nothing I can do about that. I have to ignore it. How would you like to see 1984 "Cub Busters" T-shirts? They STILL sell the damn things in San Diego.

Stay focused on your team. It's going to happen eventually -- and, as I've mentioned before the celebration will be nation-wide. Cubs fans are everwhere, remember that -- it won't be confined to one slummy bar at 35th and Princeton -- remember that.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 20, 2005 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree but....

It's just different viewpoints. I agree with you and KJK that this idea that the taunting is somehow now going to become unbearable if the Sox with the WS doesnt make sense to me.

A scene from Summer 2006:

Sox fan: Cubs suck!
NLBALLCLUB: Sox suck!
Sox fan: We won the WS last year, kiss the ring!
NLBALLCLUB: Sox suck! We're up 6 - 3 today!
Sox fan: We won the WS and you suck!
NLBALLCLUB: Sox still suck forever.

... um, ok, that's pretty much how I see it going. What is the big freakin' deal? I'm with you on the "never hearing the end of it". We already have that with the Cardinals when they come to town and somehow we manage to live through it quite nicely.

But, Socal and Co. can root against anyone they feel like and it is completely subjective so answering why is irrelevant.

NLBallClub

by NLBallClub on Oct 20, 2005 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Besides

We all love the Cubs dont we? Soon, very soon, there will be a lot more to talk about that is Cub related than all the White Sox nonsense. Cant wait for the hot stove.

by Slaky311 on Oct 20, 2005 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

I'm going to be picky and annoying and say that the White Sox home uniform doesn't say Chicago. So I can't cheer for them. :)

And by what you are saying, it sounds like you think those "Cub Busters" T-shirts are dumb, and they are. That's how I'm going to feel with the Sox fans, whatever they say is just going to be dumb and annoying. I don't feel like I'm going to die if the White Sox win.

To me, since I haven't had enough time in all these rivalries, they are 'nice' rivalries to me because I don't hate the Cardinals or the White Sox, but when the Cubs play them I want them to beat their butts. And right now I hear things from Sox fans about Dusty or our simulated Cy Young award winners. But we aren't talking about Kerry Wood or Dusty Baker here. This is about the World Series, the ultimate prize we as fans want. I could ignore everything, but then I would be unhappy because I have to swallow everything they say and just ignore it. and in one whole year of them being champions, it's going to be a lot of stuff to ignore.

If the Sox do win, I hope that makes them happy and focused on their team. It would be great if winning changed them. And I know the Cubs will win someday during my lifetime, unless they take 200 years to win it.

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Oct 20, 2005 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No applause today

"I'm going to be picky and annoying and say that the White Sox home uniform doesn't say Chicago. So I can't cheer for them. :)"

And dumb.

What do the white uniforms with blue pinstripes say on them?

by Ivychat on Oct 20, 2005 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You whiffed that one

as bad a KKKKKKKorey.

You can certainly read between the lines, you always do, and the response to "Chicago" was the clammoring for people to root for Chicago. That's why she pointed that out.

And it doesn't matter what's on the Cubs jersey--that's her team.

C'mon, you are much better than that. :--) Must have been a long day in the broker world.

by socalbob on Oct 20, 2005 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup!

And if I was Chuck I would give you the applause treatment for your comment. But since I'm not Chuck I'll just say you are amazing because that's exactly right! :D

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Oct 20, 2005 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh man...

just like you made my day yesterday, no applause ruined it today :(

By the way, I saw your little girl on your site the other day and she is so cute! Happy belated birthday to her! What's her name? Can I get an applause from her?? Please? :)

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Oct 20, 2005 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

She would have clapped for you, but this post just made her spit up her formula.

by Ivychat on Oct 20, 2005 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

I guess its the thought that counts. So even though she didn't clap, I'll take it.

Or maybe you taught her to only clap for the Cubs when they have no Dusty, so she probably never claps...

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Oct 20, 2005 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

"Cant wait for the hot stove"

One of them needs to beat the piss out of the other in 4 games so we can get out with it.

2006 -- AC026097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Oct 20, 2005 4:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't like it

when any other team wins anything beside my own. If I have friends who root for a team and their team wins and mine doesn't I am not happy. The ability to gloat over your team's performances versus another teams is instinctual. I always want the ability to say that my team is better. I bet cavemen would gloat over how there cave did hunting versus the other cave.

by mike bornemann on Oct 20, 2005 6:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

not sure i buy ...

... the instinct theory. people have control over their instincts. it's one thing to be proud of your team's accomplishments and quite another to be a jerk about it ...

i should point out that my stance on this issue hasn't won me any friends -- not that i was looking for any. i still get crap from some sox fans for being a cub fan; and crap from other sox fans who call me a bandwagoner, now; and some cub fans who call me a traitor. it's very comical in a way. thank god people on BCB have opened minds .... and thank god i don't really care about it ... :)

i was thinking about this a little more today and realized that for me, being pro something doesn't really mean i have to be anti something else. i can be anti-something in itself (the Mets, for example) but the pro and anti don't always have to connect. i guess i'm just one of fewer people than i thought were around, who is pro-Cub and not anti-WSox. and i'm certainly not anti-Sox-fan, just anti-jerk, regardless of their favourite team ...

by kjk on Oct 20, 2005 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

cave men

tongue in cheeck. I think its all jealousy, I am jealous as hell.

by mike bornemann on Oct 20, 2005 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Response

I am really tired of all these "Cubs fans" routing for the Sox. I grew up a Cubs fan and a Chicago fan (except for the Sox). But my allegiance to the Cubs over the Sox will always be there. Why would I start routing for a team I have hated my whole life because they won it before the Cubs. It makes me sick. There is no good way for this WS to end well for a Cubs fan unless it finally makes the Cubs realize that they need to bring their fans a championship. These are dark days for Cubs fan - period. I am not happy for people I know that are Sox fans.

by Steve Trout on Oct 26, 2005 1:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed...

what makes me even more sick is this "sox fan conversion form" going around.

i had a customer walk into work and drop off a few of em' and say, "So you and Terry (my boss) can finally root for the right team"

If I have to hear one more time, "it's for chicago, it's for chicago" I'm going to slam a two by four against someone's head. It is not for Chicago, it's for the South Side, if it were for us they (Sox fans) wouldn't shove it in our faces.

What makes me even more sick is what kind of shirts are they going to have for us next year?

There was the oh so famous "Biggest gay bar in the world one", "Choke", "Sosa Lumber Co."

Prattle on how it's about Chicago for the time being, but when you walk throughout the south side and see something about how the sox are showing the cubs how to win or some inane crap like that, then, please please tell me it's "For Chicago".

Please don't bother validating any of this either, this is based soley on opinion.

2006 -- AC026097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Oct 26, 2005 5:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs