Pitching Mechanics

by MerigoldBowling on Dec 27, 2005 2:59 PM CST Comment 31 comments

Okay, I was reading a lot of things in the comments section about the Prior-Tejada deal and some things stuck out at me as not being really correct.

Dr. James Andrews and the American Sports Medicine Institute (Kevin Wilk) is the ONLY authority that has the real authority on pitching mechanics. I only say this because I know they have over a thousand pitchers on video and they are now going over the data to determine what might be better to prevent injuries. I have had four different lectures on pitching mechanics and they have all said different things.
The idea that Prior uses a lot of legs is really false. Look at him again sometime. He has big calf muscles, but he has little thighs and more importantly little butt muscles (hip extensor strentgh). One of the more important things I have learned is you have to have a proper balance point on your right leg as you pivot and turn to home. That has to be balanced on a single leg, and you have to have good strength throughout the right leg in order for the arm to function properly.
Finally, your whole body provides the power, not just the shoulder or the elbow. One of the physical therapists talked to us about Ben Sheets and how he worked mainly abdominals with him one off-season. Those are just important as any shoulder muscle.

I am by no mean an expert on any of this stuff. It's very complicated, but the things above is stuff that I picked up on in my training in school.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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ya know

as much as I like Prior, I don't think I'm going to be following the advice of No. 2 and looking at the butt muscles.

2006 -- AC036097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Dec 27, 2005 3:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Don't worry...

I'll do it. :)

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Dec 27, 2005 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

is this a gay board

hey MerigoldBowling that was a particularly gay comment about mark priors buttocks

by Chet on Dec 27, 2005 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

uhm

not really.

2006 -- AC036097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Dec 27, 2005 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You made me laugh...

I'm a girl so I can look at Prior's buttocks, right? :P

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Dec 27, 2005 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To Chet...

... your comment violates the BCB Community Guidelines, specifically the one that prohibits:

Comments that are intolerant or prejudiced (sexist, racist, homophobic, etc.) in nature, e.g., "Why don't you go play with your dolls?", "The Cubs shouldn't sign black players," "Doesn't Damon look like a fag?", etc.

Please do not make remarks like this in the future. Thank you.

by Al on Dec 27, 2005 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

But as a future physical therapist, it is my job to focus on the size of the gluteal region to see if there is atrophy in terms of the other musculature in the lower extremity, say the gastroc.- soleus group.

Above is what I normally would say and 90% of you would have no idea what I was talking about.

by MerigoldBowling on Dec 28, 2005 12:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean...

...reduction in the size of the calf muscles????

Hehehe...sorry, couldn't resist.

by Santos L Halper on Dec 28, 2005 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think I know...

well, at least I'm supposed to since I took 3 tests on it in my anatomy class. I had to model the soleus out of clay in class.

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Dec 28, 2005 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

booooooo chet.....

by southerncubbie on Dec 28, 2005 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Training....

for what??

You may be no expert, but I like the info. Thanks for passing it along.

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Dec 27, 2005 3:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If the ASMI is such an authority...

why are arm injuries so rampant. Yes, Dr. Andrews has a lot of experience and the studies may pay off in the long run, but I don't see any answers right now. Even though he is an eccentric, Mike Marshall may have some important ideas. No one in the modern era racked up the appearances like he did. His problem seems to be an inability to communicate with others.

by greggie44 on Dec 27, 2005 4:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

ASMI

ASMI has reasearch all over respected rehabilitation journals such as the American Journal of Sports Medicine and the Journal of Orthopedic and Sports Physical Therapy. That's why I would be more apt to following their lead.

by MerigoldBowling on Dec 28, 2005 12:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's fine...

but your initial post pointed to them as the only authority on the subject. In medical and scientific matters, there is a history of conflict between different sets of researchers. My main point is not to put all the eggs in one basket and discredit other theories so easily.

by greggie44 on Dec 28, 2005 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

arm injuries

are simply beacuse the arm is not structured to throw overhand. There have been numerous biomechanical studies and many schools of thought, but a lot of it is luck and genetics.

by socalbob on Dec 27, 2005 4:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hmm.

Holy crap
I am a Biomedical Engineering Undergrad, and this is most certainly true. That's why the motion is never the same and is injury prone, to one degree or another.

by cubbybear on Dec 28, 2005 1:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well

as long as we're throwing around majors. I'm a secondary education/psychology major 6 credits away from a degree in both.

2006 -- AC036097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Dec 28, 2005 1:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Let me just say...

... that I'm impressed by both of your credentials, and the information that's been given in this thread is both timely and fascinating. I've learned a lot thanks to all of you!

by Al on Dec 28, 2005 3:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

aww thanks

Want to do me a real favor though? To keep the information going on these boards, hows about some help with tuition?

The Al Yellon Cub Fan Scholarship. C'mon!

lol j/p -- when my grandfather died last year we were suprised to find that he had put away from some college money.

2006 -- AC036097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Dec 28, 2005 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cheerfully accepting contributions...

... for such things anytime!

;)

by Al on Dec 28, 2005 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lol wait

me contributing to you or vice versa?

2006 -- AC036097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Dec 28, 2005 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think he means...

people here contribute to the scholarship to give it to nice people like me that haven't started college. :)

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Dec 28, 2005 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oh

Well when I finally get out of college and into the working world I will. Granted I don't have any debts to pay.

2006 -- AC036097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Dec 28, 2005 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

...eh

Your whole body's involved, but the legs feed everything. Nolan Ryan generated most of his power with his legs, and that was also the reason he had such a high leg kick.

When it boils right down to it, we're still really in the dark about preventing injuries, etc. In the past, guys threw a lot more---both innings-wise and in terms of throwing x-number of innings/days without rest---and a lot of those guys had long careers. Of course, a lot of guys careers flamed out early from injuries that couldn't be treated.

Now we rest guys four days between starts, and we have seemingly as many injuries. But if a guy gets messed up, his career can usually be saved. So while our treatment methods may be better, I still don't think we know much about how to prevent injuries and maximize performance.

"If it takes forever."

by JDay on Dec 27, 2005 6:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think

it might have to do with the types of pitches, more break and more variation, in addition to knowing how to pitch so many different pitches. it seems like a big task for our arms and shoulders.

by cubbybear on Dec 28, 2005 1:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My Two Cent

In my humble opnion I think it goes back to when we were kids, for some of us it might be a little longer ago than others :), but I remember sitting in the backyard and throwing with my dad every day. In school it seemed like you pitch almost every game if your a pitcher, I wasn't that good at pitch so I ended up at first base, but now with specialized pitching coaches for 8 year olds it and 5 day waits in between each pitching games, it's lucky when a guy goes 200 innings a year, since 1980 no one has thrown 300 innings in a season. It seems to me that maybe a 4 man rotation has some merit. It worked in the 60's. I just wondering if we trained the up and coming kids to pitch more innings, and don't rely so heavily on relief pitching. Maybe, just maybe there would be less injuries. I think it starts at young age and build from there. Just my humble opnion.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Dec 27, 2005 7:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You have to remember what four days rest means.

Four days rest does not mean that a pitcher does nothing for four days. Depending on the team/pitching coach they pitch a "side session" in the bullpen once or twice in between starts. They also shag flyballs during batting practice other days and return the ball to a ballboy in the middle of the field. This may not be extreme all-out pitching, but its still throwing a ball.

As a high school coach I can tell you first hand a kid who pitches in everygame is throwing 2-3 times a week in games that range from 5-7 innings. So when you say that a kid is pitching everyday - its relative to their ability and the amount of pitching experience they have. Last year, my high school team's top pitcher pitched about 60 innings in 2.5 months.

Guys who play baseball throw all the time. Period. Its what they do regardless of their position.

In my experience, injuries are a combination of genetics and minimizing injury by using mechanics that minimize the amount of stress a player puts on his shoulders/elbow/back/etc.

There are other ways to look at this, but this is mine and I have been known to be wrong - a lot - just ask my wife!

by tcjhawk on Dec 27, 2005 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually...

... this sounds quite reasonable, and it is sobering to realize that you throw your top pitcher 60 innings (I presume that's for an entire season), and Kerry Wood in his senior season in high school threw more than twice as many innings.

Some say the damage to his arm began then.

by Al on Dec 27, 2005 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The was an entire season...

... and it was his senior year. I cannot fathom throwing a high school pitcher 120 innings in a season. However, I bet Texas' season is much longer than ours in northern Michigan. We schedule about 32-36 games (all doubleheaders) from early April through early June - with the playoffs extending the season to about June 25th (if you make it that far). I think Wood probably pitched his 120 innings from February to early June, but thats just a guess.

by tcjhawk on Dec 27, 2005 8:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

4 man rotations

the beginning of the 4-man rotation began due to ML clubs wanting to develop more starters in the minor leagues. They went to 5-man rotations to get more innings to more players. Eventually this trend came to the big leagues thinking the extra day rest would be more beneficial.

An interesting trend is now taking shape in the minors and that is 8 man rotations. Essentially there are 4 two-man groups and each pitcher switches off as a starter. But each pitcher throws no more than 4 innings. It gives players the chance to be a starter and also give pitchers a chance to come out of the pen. And the better benefit gives 8 guys a lot more innings to develop. Stay tuned as this may take place on all teams.

by socalbob on Dec 28, 2005 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wood

In his area of Texas, Wood's season would probably have began in mid-to-late February, when practices would have began in earnest, and would have lasted until about early-to-mid May, when state tournaments would be played. They probably would have played a similar schedule of double-headers, along with whatever tournaments and playoffs they would have been involved in.

He could probably have been run out as often as his coach wanted to put him out there in the regular season, but in the playoffs he would have only been allowed a certain number of innings per round.

So his season, in number of games, might have been somewhat comparable to one in Michigan, but from the time practices begin to the time the season wraps would probably be around a month longer. All that being said, 120 innings is still astronomical.

"If it takes forever."

by JDay on Dec 27, 2005 10:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs