Jim don't pull that trigger yet.....

by sandbergformanager on Dec 27, 2005 10:25 PM CST

Jim don't make this Tejada for Prior trade yet...

I think if you all thought about this proposed trade of Tejada for Prior, amongest others, you would see this is not good from the Cubs prosective. I know Tejada is a great hitter and perhaps the best shortstop in baseball, but he is really not the type of hitter the Cubs need right now. We have two really good All-Star type hitters from the right side in D-Lee and A-Ram. The Cubs really need a number two in the order hitter who will be on-base for Lee, Ramirez, and Jones, otherwise it will be like in 2004 when we hit homeruns but they more mostyly solos. I know Prior has been hurt as well but we don't want another Greg Maddux, and yes I know that Greg was a free agent but that doesn't matter. Bedard is good but he's not great and not dominating like Prior can be. I wouldn't trade Patterson or Hill but unless Jim can has another move to aquire a dominating type starter to replace Prior this could end up being another Lou Brock trade and trust me none of us wants that.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Comments

I'm confused

Did you just say you wouldn't trade Patterson?

by SoBlueCal on Dec 27, 2005 10:50 PM CST reply actions

I'm very confused too....

....is this guy's username "Sandbergformanager"? -- would that be Ryan Sandberg? The Hall of Fame second baseman for the Chicago Cubbies -- perhaps the greatest second baseman of all time?

Sandberg was an amazing baseball player, and a great guy, but he has the IQ and communication skills of a doorknob.

I apologize: I know that the post was about how Hendry shouldn't trade Prior, but I had a very difficult time taking your posting seriously, when your username is "Sandbergformanager" -- can I be mistaken? It's a scary thought.

by southerncubbie on Dec 28, 2005 10:56 AM CST up reply actions

Be confused no more...

Yes my user name is refering that I would love to see Ryno as the Cubs manager. I know he may not be the brightest guy out there but this guy knows how baseball was meant to play and I think that he would be able get a team to play fundamental baseball and that is something Dusty hasn't been able to do. Disagree if you will but the Cubs problem has been the fundamentals and if that could be straightened out we would be on our way. I do agree Sandberg is the greatest second basemen of all time.

by sandbergformanager on Dec 28, 2005 12:01 PM CST up reply actions

Patterson

I said that I would trade Patterson.

by sandbergformanager on Dec 28, 2005 11:55 AM CST up reply actions

I'm confused too

I think I have been about as vocal
as possible that I think this is a bad
deal but it would be virtually impossible
to end up like either Brock or Maddux.
In the first place Tejada is clearly a
very good player. When Brock was traded
he had huge potential but had not put up
huge numbers. As for Maddux well you can't
really top that. I am not sure which would
be less likely, Prior winning the next
3 Cy Young awards or not missing a
start for the next 5 years ( As Maddux
did under his first contract with the Braves)
I still think a Prior for Tejada trade is
a terrible idea but not up there with
either Brock or Maddux

by jessica on Dec 27, 2005 11:17 PM CST reply actions

I agree.

A terrible, terrible idea to trade away Prior. Just awful. Hendry, don't you dare do this!

Such trades have never seemed to work out in the past. Please don't do this.

Check out this link:

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id=136387

by nickler on Dec 28, 2005 7:54 AM CST reply actions

Additionally

Do we really need another diary re: the Tejada trade? Is anyone really adding anything new at this point?

NLBallClub

by NLBallClub on Dec 28, 2005 8:59 AM CST reply actions

No...

... and I have asked people, in yesterday's Housekeeping post, to not do this. Please re-read that post, and the Community Guidelines, before you post yet another Tejada diary.

I'm not trying to cut off Tejada debate -- far from it -- but it can and should be consolidated.

by Al Yellon on Dec 28, 2005 9:23 AM CST up reply actions

agreeth....

....especially when the redundant posts are coming from users with the names / campaigns of "Sandbergformanager" .....

...Does this scare anyone else as much as me?

by southerncubbie on Dec 28, 2005 10:57 AM CST up reply actions

If the O's want Zambrano...

...give him to them.

Yes, I know, Z is our horse. But when healthy, I am confident that Prior is actually better. If the Orioles want Zambrano, maybe they'd be willing to include a little more in the deal.

I'm thinking something like Z + Hill + Dopirak/Sing for Tejada + Bedard/Cabrera + Penn.

Thoughts?

by The Boar on Dec 28, 2005 11:18 AM CST reply actions

Uh...

no. I was thinking about this. I wrote Z, Prior, Lee, and Ramirez were untouchable unless the right deal came. And then I realized that I would never ever trade Z, the only person I might trade him for is Johan Santana, but then I realized that I would rather keep Z. So basically Z is untradeable unless we get Johan, Pujols, and Miguel Cabrera. Oh yea and Tejada as a a throw in.

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Dec 28, 2005 11:50 AM CST up reply actions

Rotation

Hey why don't we all just think for a minute. Does a rotation of Wood, Prior, Maddux, Bedard, Penn/Rusch/Williams scare you. Maddux will be 40 in April and has been declining, Wood is a huge question mark coming off shoulder surgery, Bedard was hurt last year as was Prior, and Prior has had only one good year, and Penn wasn't good last year, yes he is still young, Rusch faded fast last year, and Williams hasn't been spectacular. I don't thik Tejada will help score enough runs to make up for the amount this rotation will give up.

by sandbergformanager on Dec 28, 2005 12:06 PM CST up reply actions

Amen!

Amen, brother sandbergformanager!

I'd like Steve Stone as pitching coach.

by nickler on Dec 28, 2005 2:46 PM CST up reply actions

Based on what, exactly?

Just because you can talk about something on TV, does not mean you can teach it to major league players in a way that makes a winning staff.

by Al Yellon on Dec 28, 2005 3:18 PM CST up reply actions

When

the time comes, and it will be in this decade. It would be an hnor for Greg Maddux to be our pitching coach.

2006 -- AC036097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Dec 28, 2005 3:58 PM CST up reply actions

Do we even know...

... if Greg Maddux WANTS to stay in baseball as a coach or manager after he retires as a player? He has never stated such.

The best coach in the Maddux family is likely going to be Mike. He's terrific. I'd try to steal him from the Brewers, if there were any way to do so.

by Al Yellon on Dec 28, 2005 4:26 PM CST up reply actions

Sooner or later he will coach/manage

I agree that Mike is great pitching coach and would
LOVE to get him next year after his contract expires

As I stated before I think Greg would eventually make
a better MANAGER because his ability to stratigize
and see the WHOLE game is virtually unequalled.
It might take some serious adjustment from being
club house frat boy/ prankster to manager but I imagine
he can pull it off. However PLAYING is the ONLY thing
he thinks about now so we will have to wait and see
what he does after that

by jessica on Dec 28, 2005 5:11 PM CST up reply actions

True.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, as usual. He seems to know a lot. He was a Cy Young pitcher in the past. He has warned Kerry Wood about his mechanics and predicted what would happen if he didn't change. That's about all I know.

I'm just getting pretty desperate, is all.

by nickler on Dec 28, 2005 4:33 PM CST up reply actions

maddog

what's not to like about maddux?at least the guy can stay healthy for a whole season and manage to win 14 games for an average team!i se no reason why he can't win 14-15 games again this year.if we do trade prior pleeeeeease find a suitable replacement.pitching always wins titles!

by cubz409 on Dec 28, 2005 4:51 PM CST reply actions

FYI Maddux is the mechanics poster boy

LITERALLY. I have a cut out from one of the Chicago
papers discussing both Prior & Wood's mechanics problems
in which Maddux is used by several folks as the model
of how to throw and not get injured (diagram included) I will try to dig it up but as best I remember it goes into detail about how Maddux ALWAYS throws at the same exact, non injury producing angle, EVEN when he is fielding.

He also positions himself perfectly on the mound to field
without gettting hit or throwing off balance. In 20 years
he has been on the DL once for 10 days with some kind of lower
back pain. Lastly as we all know he keeps a VERY low pitch count
( I think he still leads the majors in fewest pitches per out)
because he is not afraid to throw over the plate. Yes it is
leading to more gopher balls these days but imagine how
good Wood & Prior would be if they could throw 90 pitches
in 7 innings ?

by jessica on Dec 28, 2005 5:20 PM CST reply actions

I know that this is incredibly unpopular but...

I really have a problem with Maddux.

He left the Cubs for the Braves for a few more bucks. When a team brings you up and gives you the opportunity to be a major league player, and if the team is in reasonable contention and when it's in a good place to live then for Goodness sake take a few less bucks and just play in Chicago. It's not like the Cubs offered him half of what the Braves offered. Overall it was not that much. Then he gives his best years to Atlanta while we're left out in the cold.
He's getting old and less effective. He's now 39. His ERA last year was 4.24, and that's pitching in a divison with the Pirates, Astros, Reds, and Brewers. He went 13/15. He doesn't have a whole lot of years ahead of him.
He's never been great in the postseason. I still remember watching, with heartbreak, the Cubs getting destroyed by the Giants as Maddux gave up run after run. This has been the big criticism on him in Atlanta as well.
We're paying him $9 mill a year! Garland, Contreras, Buerhle, Garcia are all making less than Maddux and yet are more effective in a more difficult American League.

But I think it's the fact that he deserted us that upsets me the most. He has had no loyalty to the Cubs fans. Why should I have loyalty or good feelings towards him, as his career winds down?

I respect him as much as I do an Army deserter. I wish we could just let him go for new talent but nobody will take him with that price tag.

by nickler on Dec 28, 2005 6:58 PM CST up reply actions

All I have to say..

is you got it all wrong nickler. And I will let Maddux expert, jessica, tell you why.

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Dec 28, 2005 7:06 PM CST up reply actions

If this is true...

then why did he leave us high and dry?

I refuse to blame it all on Cubs management. The guy had a great thing going here and could have been a real Chicago icon. Michael Jordan played here for many years making less than other players and did a great job. At some point, teams have to put their foot down on players' greed and say enough is enough.

I think Maddux is greedy and ungrateful. If he were like Clemens and was still a lights out pitcher, then I'd let it go. But he's not that great anymore. Decent, but not great. It's not enough to make up for all the scars from the past decade of watching the hated Braves beat us again and again.

by nickler on Dec 28, 2005 7:10 PM CST up reply actions

I am not trying...

to be argumentative, it just boggles my mind that Cubs fans have so much loyalty to a guy who showed absolutely none to them.

BTW, after deserting us for years and getting canned by Atlanta he then comes back when he's old and less effective and says he's always loved Chicago?? He loves $$, and all he cares about is his own greedy self. He came back because we offered him more than anyone else. If the Royals offered him a dollar more, he'd have gone there.

I just don't like the guy and all of the BS he's pulled.

by nickler on Dec 28, 2005 7:16 PM CST up reply actions

Calm down nickler...

Maddux is awesome, and I love him. All he has done is given is consistency. He's not greedy at all, but again, I will let jessica explain this to you. She will probably do a better job than me, since she knows Maddux very well.

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Dec 28, 2005 7:22 PM CST up reply actions

I meant...

given us consitency before you scream at my spelling mistake. :)

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Dec 28, 2005 7:23 PM CST up reply actions

Yes.

And given the hated Braves consistency, too. During the peak of his career.

Ugh.

by nickler on Dec 28, 2005 7:29 PM CST up reply actions

Where to start?

Well guys I just got back from a long
trek to Brooklyn , it's late , i'm tired and my
home computer really sucks but I will do
my best
Without violating Al's community standards
Nickler you really, really don't know ANYTHING
about Maddux and how he left. I don't have
the time or patience to go over the gory details
but in a nutshell on THREE DIFFERENT
before and during the 92 season Maddux
AGREED to a five year contract ONLY TO
HAVE THE CUBS pull it off the table. Ironically
Maddux virtually the opposite of what you have
stated. He actually WANTED to stay with Cubs
and then GM and Tribune pushed him out.
If anyone wants I can post some of the truly
disgusting details and quotes tomorrow
but trust me it is even more depressing than
most of us remember.
One of the things I love most about Maddux
is that when he did leave the Cubs he took
FIVE MILLION DOLLARS LESS ( over 5 years)
to play for the Braves over the Yankees (
He hates the AL for the DH and does not like NYC either) and this was when five million
was a lot of money in a baseball contract.

Seriously Nickler why don't you google some
of the articles from when Maddux came back
in 2004? There is plenty of detail in many of
them on how he left. You truly know NOTHING
about him if you think he would ever play
in Kansas City for any amount of money.
His two criteria for signing anywhere in 2003
where that it had to be a CONTENDING
National League team. If you are looking
for the fattest contract you don't openly state
you have no interest in 2/3rds of the MLB
teams.

Yes he is being paid a lot of money but
if they had NOT signed him in 2004 they
would have been out of contention for
the ENTIRE season. Who do think made
every start that year ? Only Maddux since
he is never injured and never throws tantrums
that get him tossed ( ok he swears on the mound like a sailor but that is just a work
habit) . Bitch about the money if you want
but he earns it by nearly always keeping them
in the game. I am willing to admit he is
"over paid" but there are a lot worse ways
to spend 8 million ( it was a back loaded
deal so really 8 per year)
Sorry he is no longer the guy who won 3
straight Cy Young awards and had an ERA
of about 2 for the five years from 93-97
but he COULD have been a Cub if Himes
had not been such a jackass. I know he
kept all those MLB ready pitchers like
Hill, Koronka, Mitre etc from being 20 game winners last year by being greedy and
keeping his place in the rotation

That's it . I am really tired. If you want lots
of specifics I can post them but save yourself
from looking like an idiot and try looking them
up yourself

Good night all

by jessica on Dec 29, 2005 12:34 AM CST up reply actions

ahhh

isn't she awesome?

( ok he swears on the mound like a sailor but that is just a work
habit).

Is this at himself or the batter or who?

2006 -- AC036097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Dec 29, 2005 3:26 AM CST up reply actions

Swearing

To himself. Well actually someone on the Braves
NG once suggested that he was really swearing
at the ball for " failing to do as he instructed it"
Next time there is a close up on the mound try
looking at his mouth. You don't have to be a
particularly good lip reader to figure it out as
it is shall we say a fairly simple vocabulary.

Don't be fooled by that soft voice & quiet demeanor, he is as ruthless as they come. Smoltz once said that he would never, ever think of playing a joke ON Maddux ( who is infamous for his clubhouse pranks) as Maddux would plot some revenge so horrible you would not even want to think about it

by jessica on Dec 29, 2005 11:36 AM CST up reply actions