Hendry Quote

by ar_hawkins on Dec 5, 2005 6:46 PM CST

What do you all think about this quote from Hendry on Cubs.com:

"The Cubs have shortstops Neifi Perez and Ronny Cedeno both in the mix. Cedeno would be better either second or lower in the order, and Perez batted primarily in the No. 2 spot and hit .254 (29-for-114) as the leadoff man this season. Another in-house option as a leadoff candidate is Jerry Hairston Jr., who hit .265 batting first.

'If we start tomorrow with the three guys in the middle who we have in-house and we do a good job of shoring up the outfield, I'd be OK with that,' Hendry said. "

Seeing as Todd Walker is very likely trade bait at this point (for an outfield deal), I don't feel comfortable with Neifi as a possible starter. And to have Neifi anywhere near the top of the order for very long is a bad idea. Thoughts?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Comments

MSU SUCKS!!

by tcjhawk on Dec 5, 2005 6:51 PM CST reply actions

This...

... is not only not related to the subject, it is an inappropriate comment on this forum.

Please watch your language in the future. Thank you.

by Al Yellon on Dec 5, 2005 6:53 PM CST up reply actions

Just a little ribbing

between two brothers!!

He already knows how I feel about the entire quote.

by tcjhawk on Dec 5, 2005 7:00 PM CST up reply actions

Yes

Just a little ribbing between two brothers : )

I guess that you wouldn't want to see Neifi and Jerry at the top of our order for very long. And hopefully Hendry can address that.

by ar_hawkins on Dec 5, 2005 7:07 PM CST up reply actions

Regardless of the quote...

he ABSOLUTELY has to make additions. Any combination of the three at the top of the order will be an absolute failure on Hendry's part.

by tcjhawk on Dec 5, 2005 7:11 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed.

And, if you're listening Jim, there's no crying in baseball.

: )

by ar_hawkins on Dec 5, 2005 7:13 PM CST up reply actions

I'll have to apologize

That would be my older brother, and sometimes he's a bit immature. Back to topic - if this is a worst case scenario, where DOES Jerry fit in to the lineup?

His splits for the second half are indeed not the greatest:

1st half - .276 AVG, .361 OBP
2nd half - .241 AVG, .303 OBP

Where would he hit?

by ar_hawkins on Dec 5, 2005 7:01 PM CST up reply actions

A middle infield

of Cedeno and Jerry would be my line-up.

by tcjhawk on Dec 5, 2005 7:03 PM CST up reply actions

With Jerry batting where?

by ar_hawkins on Dec 5, 2005 7:07 PM CST up reply actions

hopefully...

cincinnati or tampa

by dc60123 @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 5, 2005 9:30 PM CST up reply actions

Worst case...

...Hairston bats leadoff(I almost threw myself out the window after typing that).

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Dec 5, 2005 7:06 PM CST up reply actions

Ahh yes

I guess I would hope that's worse case as well.

by ar_hawkins on Dec 5, 2005 7:08 PM CST up reply actions

FORK IN MY EYE

by tcjhawk on Dec 5, 2005 7:12 PM CST up reply actions

Hey, you guys...

... please, even if this is just fun between brothers, keep it clean.

by Al Yellon on Dec 5, 2005 7:14 PM CST up reply actions

Al sorry

but, with all due respect, I have seen worse on this site.

Will keep it clean, though.

by tcjhawk on Dec 5, 2005 7:22 PM CST up reply actions

Thanks...

... hey, pretty much anything goes, for the most part. Had no idea you were brothers.

Must be a fun house when you two are together.

by Al Yellon on Dec 5, 2005 7:24 PM CST up reply actions

Yes

We'll keep it clean, promise.

Our house IS quite lively (and loud) when we get to see eachother. Especially if a Cubs game is on.

by ar_hawkins on Dec 5, 2005 7:31 PM CST up reply actions

OK, OK...

... I have to laugh at this exchange.

Personally, if no one else can be acquired for middle infield, I'd rather see Cedeno at SS, Walker at 2B, Perez as backup for both, and get some better hitters for the outfield.

by Al Yellon on Dec 5, 2005 7:13 PM CST up reply actions

Makes sense...

But then do we find ourselves in a position where Dusty decides to start Neifi more often just because he can? (Like after a day where Cedeno goes 4-4 and he might be tired...)

I'm not sure how Neifi could be an official backup unless Hendry gets a clear starter ahead of him. I guess that's what I'm really worried about..

Does that make any sense?

by ar_hawkins on Dec 5, 2005 7:25 PM CST up reply actions

Yes, it does...

... and we'd have to hope that Cedeno got off to a hot start, too.

Either that or Hendry has to order Baker to play him.

by Al Yellon on Dec 5, 2005 7:27 PM CST up reply actions

How do you think Baker would...

respond to that kind of order from Hendry.

by tcjhawk on Dec 5, 2005 7:35 PM CST up reply actions

Not very well, I'd imagine...

... but I think it will at least be stated by Hendry.

by Al Yellon on Dec 5, 2005 7:54 PM CST up reply actions

Why...

didn't you post his quote where he said Jerry played well in the second half? Then post his 2nd half splits.

by Ienpw @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 5, 2005 6:53 PM CST reply actions

Neifi starting isn't the end of the world

So long as he is the only weak link in the starting lineup. The Cubs can't be having three such players like they did in 2005, but if the Cubs get quality at CF and RF, then a middle infield of Cedeno and Perez would be fine. One of these two should be good enough as a "by the book" leadoff hitter so that Neifi can move down to 8th.

If Perez and Hairston are starting, however, the Cubs are in trouble.

by Venk Natarajan on Dec 5, 2005 6:55 PM CST reply actions

Please don't read..

...to much into that. Hendry I think is only giving a worse case scenario.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Dec 5, 2005 6:55 PM CST reply actions

so last month

when we signed neifi people were soothed with "it's only to be a backup, its only to help get Furcal" and now its "Neifi really won't be that bad...Hendry will MAKE Cedeno the starter and Dusty will LISTEN." This is a bad thing. Come on Friday...

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 5, 2005 9:02 PM CST reply actions

This comment by Hendry..............

...........is absolutely sickening. Shore up the OF? If he really is "OK" with those guys in the middle of the diamond, he'd better get Lou Brock to start things off and dig Babe Ruth up to drive home some runs. Murton should be okay in LF under this scenario........

Honestly, this insults the intelligence of anyone following the Cubs. And if he's "posturing", geez, say something that your fellow GMs will respect........

Had Hendry signed Renteria (1st choice) or Cabrera last year, the SS situation would have been solved. Instead he cuts a deal with Nomar that FORCED the Cubs to be looking for a SS in 2006. Again, WRONG MOVE.

Had Hendry found a way to take Luis Castillo off the Marlins' hands, we'd be okay. Instead he let the Twins pass off a couple of minor league arms in exchange, the quality of which the Cubs could have matched without much trouble.

So with seemingly no SS/2B options via free agency or trade, he comes up with this. I guess when you botch things this badly, what else are you supposed to say??????

by tville on Dec 5, 2005 10:38 PM CST up reply actions

no offense

but welcome to my last 72 hours.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 5, 2005 10:57 PM CST up reply actions

Signing Nomar...

... didn't "force" anything. Did any of us know for certain, last offseason, that he was going to suffer a serious injury in the first month of the season?

No, we didn't.

If he hadn't been hurt, I believe he'd have put up production for the entire season comparable to what he did after his return, which I think would have been fine with all of us, and he'd have been our SS for the longterm

How quickly we forget that Nomar had a spectacular spring training and we were singing his praises back then.

Hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it.

by Al Yellon on Dec 6, 2005 4:06 AM CST up reply actions

Was Nomar signed..............

.........for more than one year? No, which is exactly why I said the Cubs were forced to be in the hunt for a SS in 2006.

Had Nomar not been hurt and put together a mediocre to good season, the Cubs would have paid him as much (or more) than they could have paid Rento or Cabrera. Then his agent would have asked for big bucks, likely putting him on par with what Furcal just got from the Dodgers.

While the Cubs line up could use both hitters, it is widely accepted that the lead off role is harder to fill. It's also clear Furcal adds speed and defense, qualities that Nomar does not possess. Furcal would have been an upgrade at SS over Nomar, and the Nomar qualities could be picked up by improving the OF.

by tville on Dec 6, 2005 8:32 AM CST up reply actions

My point was, however...

... if Nomar had produced, he'd likely have been signed to an extension, either during the season or by now, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

He made $8 million last year. He'd have been in the Furcal ballpark had he had a good year. And if he had had that good year, would any of us have said "look elsewhere"? No.

Yes, the Cubs would have had to look elsewhere for a leadoff hitter, just as they are right now. But at least SS would have been filled by a productive hitter, though as you correctly point out, that production would have been different (high average, mid-range power) than Furcal's.

by Al Yellon on Dec 6, 2005 8:41 AM CST up reply actions

I realize, Al.............

........that I'm beginning to sound like Chuck on a Tejeda rant, but I felt the Nomar deal was bad when it was signed simply because they passed on other guys of equal or better talent AND failed to fill a position for the long term.

by tville on Dec 6, 2005 8:59 AM CST up reply actions

The first part...

... of your analysis is correct. They did pass on other players of equal or better talent.

However, you cannot say that they failed to fill a position for the longterm. That is true only in hindsight.

by Al Yellon on Dec 6, 2005 9:04 AM CST up reply actions

Okay...............

..........can we agree that if Nomar had played well last year he'd have cost more in 2005 and beyond than the $10 mil paid to Rento?

And if we can agree that by passing on Rento and signing Nomar the Cubs only got a player of equal or lesser talent, wouldn't it have made sense to have such a player signed for FEWER $$$$$?????

On top of this, Nomar turns 33 in July; Rento will reach 30 the following month. Which player is likely to be less productive going into the 2008 season??

by tville on Dec 6, 2005 9:17 AM CST up reply actions

Your points are well taken...

... but we're not talking about 2008 now, are we?

Your point was about not having a plan for 2006, and all I was saying was that had Nomar produced, the Cubs would have had a SS for 2006.

Would it have cost more than Renteria's deal? Yes, but not that much more. Remember, Nomar turned down a $12 million per year deal from the Red Sox.

by Al Yellon on Dec 6, 2005 9:24 AM CST up reply actions

Huh?

#1: "However, you cannot say that they failed to fill a position for the longterm."

#2 "but we're not talking about 2008 now, are we?"

If you are talking about filling a position long term, YES YOU ARE talking about 2008.

by Ivychat on Dec 6, 2005 12:17 PM CST up reply actions

WTF?

This comment by Hendry is absolutely sickening. Shore up the OF? If he really is "OK" with those guys in the middle of the diamond, he'd better get Lou Brock to start things off and dig Babe Ruth up to drive home some runs. Murton should be okay in LF under this scenario........

A middle infield of Cedeno and Walker is fine. CF and RF are the holes that really need to be filled.

Huh? Both guy were bad last year. Renteria is living off of two good years and Cabrera was never good. You want to say that Hendry should have gone above and beyond for Furcal that's one thing, but given the playing time Cedeno is likely to be as good as Cabrera or Renteria.

by jolietconvict on Dec 6, 2005 7:46 AM CST up reply actions

WTF to WTF?

"Cedeno and Walker are fine"

You're right. Why try to improve on the 2005 club if you don't really have to.

"Cedeno is likely to be as good as Cabrera or Renteria"

Well, after he picks up a few Gold Gloves, maybe a Silver Slugger award, steals 25-40 bases, consistently drives in +70 runs and regularly hits over .280, then, perhaps, he can be as good as either of these two guys.

True, Rento and Cabrera did not have good seasons last year, but to make that the benchmark for their careers would not be accurate. Hendry could have locked up either (and again, Rento preferrably) for 4 years, and with Ram at 3B and Lee at 1B, letting Cedeno break in at 2B would not have been such a bad idea. But having him work his craft next to Todd Walker is a bad idea, and it certainly looks like few other options are available.

The choice of Nomar last year has lead Hendry down this path, and with Furcal and Castillo already snapped up, the Cubs middle is looking medicore with the stick and shoddy with the glove.

by tville on Dec 6, 2005 8:50 AM CST up reply actions

Well...

... I think what he was saying is that if the Cubs can put some real offense in the outfield, that we could live with Cedeno & Walker. Could we have done better? Sure.

But now we are stuck with those two, for better or worse. If someone like Bobby Abreu can be acquired for RF, that makes up for some of the offense lost when Furcal went elsewhere.

by Al Yellon on Dec 6, 2005 8:52 AM CST up reply actions

Exactly...

...my point. Don't forget that inconsistent starting and relief pitching was also at least 1/2 the team's problem last year. Last year's offensive problems were about two things. First was idiotic lineup construction. With Derrek Lee having a career year it was mostly wasted by Neifi and Korey batting 1-2. Second was the fact that the Cubs fielded, by far, the worst outfield in the majors last year. I'd say Cedeno is a lock to outperform Neifi! for a whole season. Todd Walker, while lacking defensive range, is an above average offensive 2nd baseman. There are 3 important things Jim Hendry needs to do this offseason. Improve the bullpen, shore up the rotation, and improve the outfield. He's done what he thinks he needs to for the first, it appears that he understands the 2nd, and I think the 3rd part is where he can really make his mark.

by jolietconvict on Dec 6, 2005 10:49 AM CST up reply actions

worst case scenario...

to me is (shudder)

hairston ss
cedeno 2b
lee 1b
ramirez 3b (or neifi once he gets hurt)
nixon rf
murton lf
patterson cf
barrett c

Hendry has a lot of work to do. I'm starting to wonder how he's going to build a contending team this year without gutting the farm system. Lot of holes on this team, lot of holes.

Griffey Jr. anyone?

by tomas21 on Dec 5, 2005 9:32 PM CST reply actions

Spring training is a long ways off

But with the wild-card of two young guys in the line-up (um, that is if Dusty will play Cedeno and Murton in the final year of his contract???) the Cubs, on paper, have a ton of holes to really improve.

And while the talk centers mostly on position players and a lead-off guy at this point, the below-league average starting pitching last season needs to be addressed as well.

If your worst case scenario above is correct and no top starting pitcher is added instead... I think the crowds at Wrigley next year are going to be extremely ugly if things start badly. Especially with the success on the Southside.

NLBallClub

by NLBallClub on Dec 6, 2005 12:18 PM CST up reply actions