Friday Rumormongering

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 2:53 PM CST in Chicago Cubs News

There's only one, and I hope our friends at youknowwhere pick it up:

There's a new potential suitor for Corey Patterson -- the Diamondbacks.

So what would the Cubs want in return? Be realistic.

Also, welcome two new members of the SB Nation: Bluebird Banter, a Toronto Blue Jays site, and Blogging The Boys, about all things Dallas Cowboys.

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if we throw in wood,

bank one ballpark.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 9, 2005 2:55 PM CST reply actions

Well, except...

... it's now "Chase Field".

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 2:57 PM CST up reply actions

Do they even have anything to give up? I know last year the team was filled with mostly call ups. I can't even remember a quality name on the team. Not that trading Corey is going to get us a quality player at this point.

by Blue Monster on Dec 9, 2005 2:57 PM CST reply actions

I wonder how their farm system is...

... we could use a restocking after the Pierre deal.

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 2:59 PM CST up reply actions

They don't have much

in the way of pitching although it is said to be improving since they hired Rizzo to take charge of their drafts.

Chad Tracy is rumored to be available.

As far as what else they have that intrigues me the most it's that Sergio Santos that you guys have already talked about and then Carlos Quentin, of course, and a younger OF by the name of Carlos Gonzalez who just finished either Low A or High A.

I don't think we're getting any of those guys even if the Dbacks have soured on Santos for just Patterson. The D-backs have long liked Patterson, but they aren't going to give up much at all to get him.

by Maddog on Dec 9, 2005 4:03 PM CST up reply actions

Quentin's going to be a player

I woudln't think there would be any way we could pry Carlos Quentin off them.

by mikew on Dec 9, 2005 4:15 PM CST up reply actions

I would highly doubt

that we could get Quentin. He's just one of the 3, maybe 4 players in their system that really intrigue me. If we want to wait a couple of years and I have no idea if they're willing to deal Carlos Gonzalez, but he looks like he could turn out to be quite the player as well.

I have heard from more than one source that Chad Tracy is available.

by Maddog on Dec 9, 2005 5:06 PM CST up reply actions

Well...

... Tracy can hit, no doubt about it. But where would you play him?

Can he play RF?

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 5:07 PM CST up reply actions

Never mind...

... I'll answer that myself. Yes, he can. He played 47 games there last year.

This is intriguing. Think they'd do this straight-up?

If not, I'd throw in a lower-level minor league pitcher.

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 5:09 PM CST up reply actions

I don't know

if they'd do it straight up. I think the Dbacks really like Corey, but I think one of the things they like about him is that he could come so cheap. To be honest, I think the Cubs would try and get more than just Tracy from the Dbacks. I'm not positive, but i've heard over the last year or two that Hendry has had some interest in Alex Cintron. Don't ask me why, but I have heard this.

My guess for just Tracy would be Patterson + say, Wellemeyer. They just dealt an arm or two from their pen to the Braves, didn't they?

by Maddog on Dec 9, 2005 5:33 PM CST up reply actions

The other thing to remember

is that the Dbacks have Conor Jackson who is going to be their everyday 1B next season. I think the Dbacks would like to move Shawn Green (he did play 1st last year, didn't he? My memory is going).

I'm not the biggest Shawn Green fan, but the guy could be very productive in the middle of the Cubs lineup. He is someone who I think you can legitimately put between Lee and Ramirez and the pitches he should see should help him out tremendously because of that.

A guy I know who lives in AZ was listening to AM radio there 2 days ago and he said that the Dbacks were "close to a deal that would get them Corey Patterson." The report did not say who was going to Chicago.

by Maddog on Dec 9, 2005 5:39 PM CST up reply actions

wow

i'd be really surprised of the d-backs would give us tracy for patterson. it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them, unless i'm missng something.

the guy is cheap, young, has power (>.900 ops). but if they would, i'd give them corey in a heartbeat. but i have no idea why they would. here's the latest info i heard, not sure if something changed at the meetings.

Dec. 6
News: The Diamondbacks have indicated they will attempt to negotiate a long term contract with Tracy this offseason, despite trade interest from the Red Sox, Royals and other teams, the East Valley Tribune reports.

Spin: Arizona has a lot of players at the corner positions right now, but it appears they'd much rather try to move one of their older, more highly paid corner players such as Troy Glaus rather than give up the younger, cheaper Tracy.

by tomas21 on Dec 9, 2005 5:53 PM CST up reply actions

splits

pretty dramatic splits for tracy. i guess we'd need a right to play against the southpaws, but that would be a minor issue.

VS. LEFT: .236 / .723 VS. RIGHT: .324 / .952

by tomas21 on Dec 9, 2005 5:58 PM CST up reply actions

Tiny sample size alert!

That stat says nothing. I would assume a normal l/r split for Tracy.

by dvdmgsr on Dec 10, 2005 8:37 AM CST up reply actions

They'd never do it

for Corey straight up. The Cubs would have to include at least one other player, most likely a pitcher. Wellemeyer, as I said earlier, though when I think about it, probably isn't enough, but Jerome Williams and KPat would definitely get it done if the Dbacks are indeed interested in moving him.

by Maddog on Dec 9, 2005 6:15 PM CST up reply actions

It would take more than that...

...I think.

Look at the salaries involved.

Still may ve worthwhile, although I do wonder if Tracy's '05 was fluky.

by dvdmgsr on Dec 10, 2005 8:40 AM CST up reply actions

I'd tend to think not...

... seems a fairly normal progression for someone with his sort of experience and talent level.

by Al Yellon on Dec 10, 2005 11:57 AM CST up reply actions

If the D'backs...

... would take Patterson & Wellemeyer for Tracy, I'd do that deal in about 1.5 seconds. I'd drive Patterson and Wellemeyer to the airport myself.

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 8:28 PM CST up reply actions

Patterson to the Diamondbacks?

...in exchange for six packages of hot dog buns and a popcorn machine.

That's an even trade.

by drone1047 @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 9, 2005 3:02 PM CST reply actions

popcorn machine

does it have wheels?

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 9, 2005 3:03 PM CST up reply actions

forget it

if the machine has no wheels.

2006 -- AC036097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Dec 9, 2005 3:27 PM CST up reply actions

Why Not Ask For Shawn Green?

All they can do is say no. They'd shed a contract, and if they are actually asking after Patterson as opposed to the Cubs asking for someone to take him, ya never know. If not, make a player to be named later, because they really don't have much to offer.

by BeerCub on Dec 9, 2005 3:07 PM CST reply actions

I still like Vasquez.

I know he makes a lot of dough, but he'd look nice behind Z and Prior in the rotation.

by cubboy89 on Dec 9, 2005 3:12 PM CST reply actions

Maybe...

... as part of a larger deal. Who knows?

I'm not that sold on Green, either. He seems like a slightly younger Jeromy Burnitz.

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 3:15 PM CST up reply actions

Green..

He's not that much younger than Burnitz, but he has a better sense of the strike zone, and we desperately need that. I'd think his power is a notch over Burnitz's as well. Remember that tear he went on 3 years ago when he was crushing homeruns every day?

by mikew on Dec 9, 2005 4:16 PM CST up reply actions

Yabbut...

... as you say, that was three years ago. If we could get THAT Shawn Green, I'd take him.

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 4:26 PM CST up reply actions

Right on...

Vasquez would be a great addition to our rotation.

C'mon now...anyone can have a bad century...

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 9, 2005 3:33 PM CST up reply actions

Prospect

Ask the Dodgers or Rays if they like any of Arizona's prospects if it helps for us to get Milton B or Huff.

by cubfaninSTL on Dec 9, 2005 3:13 PM CST reply actions

"Patterson had a breakout year in 2004"

This is how the rest of the league views Patterson. I think he could be a viable RF option for 06 if that would allow us to go get another 3rd starter or above. He had a solid 03, a reasonabl3 04 and a bad 05. It just feels like we are writing him off too soon. He is cheap and he has upside. We are just so down on him. Unless we can get a big outfielder I would rather have Patterson than Kevin Mench.

Stick him 7th in the order bat Barrett 8th to give him some protection and see what happens.

by JonH on Dec 9, 2005 3:15 PM CST reply actions

Times up

Corey is a bum. Batting him 7th for the year would only make us a losing team. For that matter, send his brother with him in the deal too. Your better off bring Pie up and gambling on him.

by cubfaninSTL on Dec 9, 2005 3:21 PM CST up reply actions

corey

I'm not crazy about Patterson right now either, but I remember Cub fans saying they should bring him up and take a chance on him. We are not assured that Pie will do any better than Corey. One thing we do know is that his Batting average in the Dominican league is about 10 points higher than Corey's was last year.
If we are talking risk, we would realistically be better off giving Corey a chance in right batting 7th. The only problem is the Wrigley faithful will be so hard on him that he won't hardly have a chance. I admit that I have been one of the fans yelling at players before (there I said it)

Madog93. There is only one good season of the year -- BASEBALL SEASON!

by madog93 on Dec 9, 2005 5:47 PM CST up reply actions

There's never been a player

that needs a change of scenery more than Corey Patterson does. He has no room for error if he was to return to the Cubs. The guy could hit 3 game winning home runs in 3 straight games and then K 3 times and he'd be booed by 38-40,000 fans.

What my opinion of Patterson is does not matter in that he cannot possibly win if he was to stay in Chicago.

It's best for him and the Cubs to part ways.

Also, Felix Pie is being unfairly compared to Corey Patterson. When you guys see this kid play any thought that he and Corey are alike will disappear.

by Maddog on Dec 9, 2005 5:53 PM CST up reply actions

Disagree..

He's done as a Cub. He's got to go and clear his head.

by mikew on Dec 9, 2005 4:17 PM CST up reply actions

Yup...

I don't see him having a successfull career as a Cub. He's gonna have to go somewhere else to revie his career.

by Blue Monster on Dec 9, 2005 4:26 PM CST up reply actions

What

no Stephen Drew or Conor Jackson?

Miguel Montero might be a bit too much for Corey at this point, but I'd at least ask. A catcher with a great bat although his arm is a little suspect, which is why the D-Backs might part with him. Sergio Santos is a toolsy SS whom the D-backs seem to have soured on. (and they have Stephen Drew anyway.)

I'm sure they'd like us to take either Luis Gonzalez or Shawn Green's contract. I guess I'd at least consider Shawn Green if we don't get Milton Bradley.

We could take Scott Hairston, on the principle that whenever we are trying to get rid of an outfielder, we have to take a Hairston back in trade.

Heck, I'd take almost anything. The one player I would NOT take is Russ Ortiz. Ditto for Alex Cintron--we already have the original Neifi!, we don't need a cheap copy.

I never travel far without a little Big Star

by Josh Timmers on Dec 9, 2005 3:15 PM CST reply actions

Hairston

I would see if we could get Scott Hairston and Sergio Santos. Santos had a bad year this year but hes still talented and can become a good SS in time.

by Ienpw @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 9, 2005 3:51 PM CST up reply actions

Hairston

I would do Hairston for Corey in a NY minute.

These guys both need a change of scenery. Then all we have to do is DFA his brother who hits like he is swinging a wet Sun Times.

Hairston was a beast coming through their system.

by socalbob on Dec 10, 2005 11:31 AM CST up reply actions

I have to say...

I would be willing to take a chance on Green. He's from Chicago and I think he couldn't be worse than what we have on the table now. Unless Abreu or Huff are landed, why not exchange Patterson for Green? I kinda like him as a ballplayer.

C'mon now...anyone can have a bad century...

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 9, 2005 3:32 PM CST reply actions

Green...

... isn't "from" Chicago. He was born here, and left before he was two years old.

He grew up in the Los Angeles area.

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 4:10 PM CST up reply actions

Tustin, CA

to be exact. The same high school as DeShaun Foster, rb for Carolina.

by socalbob on Dec 10, 2005 11:26 AM CST up reply actions

Vasquez

would be my choice even over Green. We could also throw in Brenly for Grace.

by SonnyJ9 on Dec 9, 2005 3:44 PM CST reply actions

They aren't

trading Vazquez for Patterson. They could get more than that from two dozen other teams. Get real.

I never travel far without a little Big Star

by Josh Timmers on Dec 9, 2005 3:48 PM CST up reply actions

well

I say we could trade them patterson, throw in Williams and hairston, in exchange for vazquez and a ptbnl

seabiscuit2005

by nick3308 on Dec 9, 2005 4:14 PM CST reply actions

Interesting thought..

but I dont see it. If they're trading Vazquez they will get something "big" out of him, versus a quantity deal. J. Hairston is nothing special, CP probably doesn't have much trade value, and I know J-Williams has promise, but he hasn't done a whole lot in the bigs either.

Quality vs. Quantity here I believe.

by mikew on Dec 9, 2005 4:19 PM CST up reply actions

yes

but just remember, patterson is still only 26 and still has time, hairston can be their back up plan if they need more time for corey, and williams is still JUST 23, and did show a lot of promise last year..i just think it was a matter of him being rushed into a job

seabiscuit2005

by nick3308 on Dec 9, 2005 4:28 PM CST up reply actions

What I don't undestand...

.... is why Hendry hasn't called Brian Cashman. The Yankees are desperate for a CF, and of all places, Yankee Stadium might be useful for Patterson's uppercut swing.

I mean, they're considering Preston Wilson.

On the other hand, maybe we should let them sign him, so we don't get him.

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 4:30 PM CST reply actions

My guess would be

that the Yankees have little we're interested in.

I never travel far without a little Big Star

by Josh Timmers on Dec 9, 2005 4:42 PM CST up reply actions

Does it matter?

I'd take a monthly NY subway MetroCard in return.

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 4:52 PM CST up reply actions

Corey in NY

I think the NY media would slay him and he'd regress even further, if that's possible.

by Blue Monster on Dec 9, 2005 4:32 PM CST reply actions

that's exactly what

I was thinking.

That and does Cashman really want to take the chance on Korey?

2006 -- AC036097 -- Eamus Catuli!

by priorpwnz on Dec 9, 2005 4:34 PM CST up reply actions

A consensus

seems to be emerging around Sergio Santos. Al, call up the D-Backs and make the offer. :-)

I never travel far without a little Big Star

by Josh Timmers on Dec 9, 2005 4:46 PM CST reply actions

What about the Rangers?

They said no to a Patterson for Mench straight up deal, but they have some intriguing players. They have a SS who is 23, I believe, Ian Kinsler, who has some good power and hits for a pretty good average. He's done more than he needs to do at the minor league level. Will they move Young to 2nd? I assume they would since he played there before, but i'm sure we could get Kinsler if we put the right package together.

I don't want Mench except as a 4th OF counterpart to Mabry. I think he'd be exceptionally valuable in that role and he'd serve as insurance to Murton should he stumble.

If it's between Sergio Santos and Ian Kinsler, my money is on Kinsler. This kid looks to be a pretty good player. Santos would be cheaper, but with Cedeno and possibly Eric Patterson, if we're going to get a young SS, i'd like to get one who can hit the ball out of the ballpark on a consistent basis and then let Cedeno and EPat fight it out for 2nd in the years to come.

by Maddog on Dec 9, 2005 5:46 PM CST reply actions

Mench

You aren't going to find too many guys who are in the prime of their career, who have proven they can hit 25HRs a year and is a decent fielder who would agree to play for a team as a 4th OF.

People are down on Mench for whatever reasons, but he wouldn't be a 4th OF for the Cubs. He's better than Murton is right now, and he might be better than whoever the Cubs are able to get.

I had to give up my moniker so that Chuck could have it back.

by Scott @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 9, 2005 6:40 PM CST up reply actions

Doesn't it mean someone is from here...

if he was born here? I was referring to him having family here which I can guarantee he does because I know one of them...

C'mon now...anyone can have a bad century...

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 9, 2005 6:32 PM CST reply actions

Well...

... that's a semantic distinction. I always have thought that you are "from" the place where you grew up.

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2005 8:28 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed...

I was born in/at Ft. Riley, Kansas. I'm from Fresno, California.

"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" -Homer J. Simpson

by Whitebacon on Dec 10, 2005 3:29 AM CST up reply actions

Any family in Kansas?

If so, I's say your from Kansas and "grew up" in Fresno...whatever though/

C'mon now...anyone can have a bad century...

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 10, 2005 10:34 AM CST up reply actions

None

I'm an Army brat. So's my dad, although the rest of his family has centralized in Maine. I'm from California. Lived here the longest out of anywhere. (almost 16 straight years. No more than three anywhere else.)

"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" -Homer J. Simpson

by Whitebacon on Dec 11, 2005 7:13 AM CST up reply actions

bout this...

patterson, wood, and hill for shawn green and webb
wed get our rotation filled and oue starting lineup as long as bakers content with cedeno playin short
id take that as my x-mas present

by jfkjunior2004 on Dec 9, 2005 8:49 PM CST reply actions

Well..

... apart from the fact that Wood isn't going anywhere, and that Green has a limited no-trade clause allowing him to only go to the three teams in Southern California, that'd work great.

by Al Yellon on Dec 10, 2005 4:22 AM CST up reply actions

maybe....

as fans we should ask our teams manager who he wants. who does dusty want to play on his ball club?look what he did his first year w/ the cubbies he got his players and won. maybe we should know what dusty really wants not what hendry wants.

by jfkjunior2004 on Dec 9, 2005 9:04 PM CST reply actions

Hello, from AZ

Hello,
Cubs fan from AZ here.
I can tell you this. The D-Backs most popular player right now is Chad Tracy. The fans love him and so does management.

I highly doubt that they would trade him straight up for Cory. They are trying hard to dump Greens contract. They have a backlog of young, highly thought of infield and outfiled prospects that they need to play.

They would give up Sergio Santos because they drafted Drew and Upton with 1st round picks, two years in a row. Drew is tearing up the Minors and is ready for MLB.

They have not signed Upton yet, the #1 overall pick last year. They will sign him, but it will be a big bonus. They need to dump Glaus (who is horrible) and Green. they want to dump Gonzo too (who is also horrible).

They really really need bull pen help. They had, by far, the worst bullpen in MLB last year and just traded their best reliver to Atl for Estrada.

I think Patterson, who they consider an upgrade (LOL!) plus a pitcher(s) like Welly or Novoa or Koronka or Brownlie could get the Cubs Santos. I think it would take a Guzman, Patterson, and one of the above to even get in a discussion for Tracy.

I'll tell you though, the kid can flat out hit, is a lefty, and has RF experience.

by Seymore Butts on Dec 9, 2005 9:17 PM CST reply actions

I've seen

both Santos and Drew play in the California League. I like Santos, but boy oh boy, Drew is something special. Of course, he's not Brandon Wood, who was phenomenal. Boy, we got spoiled in the Cal League with SS this past season.

I never travel far without a little Big Star

by Josh Timmers on Dec 9, 2005 10:50 PM CST up reply actions

Guys look at this...

This is a trade proposed by AZ Phil from The Cubreporter:

#66 of 97: By Arizona Phil (December 9, 2005 04:01 PM)
CHAD may be right. Kerry Wood might not have any trade value right now.

Here' s the thing:

The Cubs need a RF, preferably a left-handed power hitter who can hit between D-Lee and A-Ram (like Bobby Abreu, for instance)
The Phillies want a top-drawer starting pitcher in return for Bobby Abreu.
The D'backs want to get something for Javier Vasquez, who has demanded a trade (as is his right, because he was traded in the middle of a multi-year contract), and who can be a free-agent (his option) if he is not traded by March 15th.

So...

PHILLIES GET:
Javier Vasquez

CUBS GET:
Bobby Abreu

DIAMBONDBACKS GET:

Jerome Williams (relplaces Vasquez in starting rotation
Mchael Wuertz or Roberto Novoa (D'backs choice - replaces Lance Cormier in bullpen)
Jerry Hairston, Jr (plays 2B, with Counsell moings to SS until Stephen Drew is ready)

WHY THE PHILLIES WOULD MAKE THE TRADE: They would get their top-drawer starting pitcher (Vasquez), while getting out from under Abreu's bloated contract. Vasquez cannot demand another trade once he gets traded. The difference between what Vasquez will make in 2006-07 and what Bobby Abreu will make in 2006-07 is $12 mil ($6 mil per season), which the Phillies could then use to sign a FA RF to replace Abreu in 2006-07.

WHY THE DIAMONDBACKS WOULD MAKE THE TRADE:
The D'backs would get two young pitchers (a starter to replace Vasquez in the rotation and a righty reliever to replace Lance Cormier) and a starting 2B/lead-off hitter back for Vasquez AND save $18 mil in 2006-07 ($9 mil per season) which they could use to sign a free-agent starting pitcher OR make a trade for one. As it is now, they are either going to get a player or players back for Vasquez, or save $18 mil (if Vasquez elects to be a FA on March 15th), but not both. This trade does both.

WHAT THE CUBS GET BACK:
Bobby Abreu. Of course, it would cost the Cubs $30 mil over two years or $44 mil over three ($13 mil in 2006, $15 mil in 2007, and $16 mil or a $2 mil buy-out in 2008). Finding the money would be a bit of a problem in 2006, but it wouldn't be a problem next year because Greg Maddux ($9 mil) and Kerry Wood ($10 mil savings after buy-out) will likely not be back in 2007. and what the Cubs were paying Maddux and Wood in 2006 would be available after they leave and could be applied to Abreu with a little left over.

So all the Cubs would need to do is find $13 mil for Abreu in 2006. They probably have just enough money left to do that now, but then they probably would not have any money left-over after making the trade.

by KChiCubs on Dec 9, 2005 10:47 PM CST reply actions

This sounds good...

but it might not work because Vazquez has certain teams blocked, I guess you could say. Philly is one of the teams he doesn't want to go to, but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Dec 9, 2005 10:59 PM CST up reply actions

I would think

that the Phillies would want to get at least one prospect in the deal as well.

As far as this goes...we were going to give 10 million-ish for Furcal, and we still needed a right and center fielder at the time. We have more than enough dough available.

"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" -Homer J. Simpson

by Whitebacon on Dec 10, 2005 3:32 AM CST up reply actions

Would love it but...

I just think that the Phillies would need more then Vasquez in return for getting rid of Abreu.

by DTJchris on Dec 9, 2005 10:58 PM CST reply actions

If so...

... give them just about anyone from the farm system. Give them Wellemeyer. Whoever. This would be a fabulous acquisition.

by Al Yellon on Dec 10, 2005 4:21 AM CST up reply actions

Agree 100%

I just thought that it should be mentioned. "Just" getting Javy Vazquez doesn't seem like it'd be enough on their end.

"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" -Homer J. Simpson

by Whitebacon on Dec 10, 2005 5:29 AM CST up reply actions

Green...

has a no-trade clause that allows him to be traded only to California teams, i.e. Angels, giants, padres

by KChiCubs on Dec 10, 2005 9:37 AM CST reply actions

Patterson Value

First of all The D Backs would laugh at us if we asked for anything of value from them

They know Patterson will be non tendered we know Patterson will be non tendered and the league knows it ... The best you can hope for is a c-level pitching prospect with marginal upside... and thats being nice.

Chad Tracy- Would require Wood and Patterson.. he hit .301 with 30 some homeruns last year is cheap and young. Aint happenin.

Javier Vazquez- Wants to go out east... it would take Wood/Patterson to get him probably if not Patterson and a couple specs.. not too high on him though.

Quentin any other mid to high spec- Patterson isnt worth this much guys.

Face it Hendry set himself up for failure with this one, the Cubs should have negotiated a trade last August when the D'Backs claimed him in waivers... now its just a bit too late.

by cubsfan2883 on Dec 12, 2005 8:20 PM CST reply actions