Open Thread: Cubs vs. Dodgers, Tuesday 5/31

by Al Yellon on May 31, 2005 4:05 PM CDT in Chicago Cubs Game Threads

What do Jeff Pentland, Rick Sutcliffe, Corey Patterson, Barry Zito, Hayden Christensen and DeWayne Staats have in common?

They are all part of the excellent discussion you guys had all day on the thread below.

Tonight's game, if won, will give the Cubs a winning record for both months so far this year. OK, sure, only one game over .500 each month -- but considering what the club has suffered injury-wise, and performance-wise only Derrek Lee has exceeded expectations (OK, maybe Neifi! too) -- this is an accomplishment.

The last time the Cubs saw Brad Penny was in game 7 of the 2003 NLCS. Nuff said, though they did pound the living daylights out of him in game 2 of said series.

Today's Starting Pitchers


C. Zambrano Cubs	vs.	B. Penny Dodgers


3-3	W-L	2-2
3.62	ERA	3.56
59	SO	23
25	BB	7
7	HR	5

Discuss amongst yourselves.

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Comments

and even though Neifi! has exceeded expectations..

he hasn't exceeded the expectations we had for Nomar, esp. after his torrid spring training. We're on a roll, so lets keep rollin'!

The Cubs will thrive in twenty-oh-five!

by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on May 31, 2005 6:44 PM CDT reply actions

Neifi!

yah, how bout that full extension catch he made...outstanding

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on May 31, 2005 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions

all star ss

neifi's play was great...and now izturis answers with a great play up the middle.
i gotta tell you all: izturis is the all star in the NL. he's the real deal. neifi is having one of those years that definitely makes him a deserving backup, but that's about it.

by billywan on May 31, 2005 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions

OT - Update on Aardsma and Williams

Aardsma pitched in West Tenn. yesterday and here were his lines:
5 IP 3 H 5 1 ER 5 K's 5 BB's W (7-2)
Struggled with his control but overall was strong.

Tonight in Iowa Williams pitched 6 at 104 pitches. Here's his line:
6 IP 7 H 2 ER 5 K's 1 HR (solo)

Williams I think will be up in 2 weeks.

Since Mitre does absolutely nothing for me, I'd like to see (If Mitre struggles here in next couple starts) Rohlicek taken off the 40 man (Koronka too) and Hill put in his place and brought up to replace Mitre in the rotation. Hill needs a shot. He's having a great year so far and in his last outing struck out 13 in 6 IP.

Alright, gametime...Let's go Cubbies and make it 5 straight and take series from Dodgers.

by strohdkill on May 31, 2005 9:03 PM CDT reply actions

Hill

Agreed about Hill. I'd like to see him brought up, but not just as a one time thing. He is 25, pitched college ball, so it's not like it's a rush pitching him this year. I'd leave Williams in the minors and really let him have some success as it's been a very difficult year for him.

I wouldn't cut Rohlicek. He's had a good year at Iowa and could be a useful part in the Cubs bullpen.

DmL

by dmlichte on May 31, 2005 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Interesting note

Scully just said something that really surprised me:

The Cubs and Dodgers have been playing since 1890 and unbelieveably, it is all tied up at 930-930.

by strohdkill on May 31, 2005 9:41 PM CDT reply actions

Particularly surprising...

since they're a historically very successful franchise while we're, well, the Cubs.

by paulucla on May 31, 2005 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions

the good old days

but don't forget the dominating days of the old cubs. back in nineteen dickety 8 we were the best team in all the land. and boy did the brooklyn dodgers suck for awhile there. they invented the whole "wait 'til next year" thing, didn't they?

by billywan on May 31, 2005 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Don't forget

the Dodgers pretty much stunk almost every year before 1941 or so. They weren't called "Dem Bums" for nothing, and Bill Terry didn't famously say "Brooklyn? Are they still in the league?" without cause.

The Cubs undoubtedly built up a huge edge in the first fifty years of the rivalry which then shifted in favor of the Dodgers once they hired Branch Rickey.

Get in touch with your inner Neifi

by Josh Timmers on Jun 1, 2005 5:08 AM CDT up reply actions

Even further...

Tonight WGN showed that the White Sox and the Angels are at 314-314. Wacky.

by Zachary on Jun 1, 2005 2:44 AM CDT up reply actions

I was wondering

Last night, with a runner on third, Jason Dubois hit a grounder that drove in a run. Officially Dubois was 0-1. Why does a batter get a sacrafice if he hits a fly ball but not on a grounder? Who cares about the method, it should be about the result.

DmL

by dmlichte on May 31, 2005 9:51 PM CDT reply actions

because,

His intent was to get a hit, not to "sacrifice" his AB to move a player up a base.

by strohdkill on May 31, 2005 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions

how does anyone know...

... the intent on a fly ball that drives someone in? Maybe the intent is to hit a HR or to hit a base hit? Who cares the intent?

DmL

by dmlichte on May 31, 2005 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Good point ...

and whether it's a sac fly or a grounder that scores a run, Corey Patterson just did neither in the top of the 9th with 1-out and men on 2nd and 3rd.

Rob Dibble, dipshit extraordinaire.

by iowaBear on May 31, 2005 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions

Sacrifice flies...

go read George Will's book "Men At Work" to learn about sac flies.

Many good hitters work on this sort of thing during BP -- situational hitting, where they invent a situation (man on third, one out) and TRY to hit a sac fly.

That's why you get a break on a time at bat. There was even a short time in baseball history where you got one if you advanced a runner from 2nd to 3rd on a fly ball.

by Al Yellon on Jun 1, 2005 3:17 AM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, sometimes I forget

that we could hold our own 97 years ago.

by paulucla on May 31, 2005 9:52 PM CDT reply actions

How in the world?

How does Izturis of all people, hit a major league fly ball and have it drop between Left and SS?? Esactly how far back were the OF'ers??

by strohdkill on May 31, 2005 10:07 PM CDT reply actions

They were pretty far back

and the ball just died. Still, a stoogelike play, especially since Choi reached base on a dropped third strike. Better score some runs to make up for it.

I resent the inference that I'm not prepared. I live my life every minute every day to prepare for combat.

by Serena on May 31, 2005 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Brenly

I'm starting to like him. He made a funny comment about an LA fan in the box seats that couldn't catch an easy foul ball with his "$700 Louis Vitton glove that he'd just purchased". I liked that!

"Everything that rises must converge"

by jpalaska on May 31, 2005 11:28 PM CDT reply actions

Re: Brenly

First time poster, great site Al!

Len and Bob were on a tear last night making fun of the LA fans. They showed Alyssa Milano munching on some nachos to which Bob replied "must be trying to gain weight for a role." Ouch. The lady eating sushi, the kid in the Reds hat, and of course the Gucci glove. Good stuff.

Great game last night, nice to see the club start to pull out these close games.

by Jack on Jun 1, 2005 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions

They'd better really not

have Burny bunt here. Talk about taking the bat out of a guys hands.

Embrace the Neifi!

by Whitebacon on May 31, 2005 11:31 PM CDT reply actions

Doggarnit...

They did. And it was unsuccessfull. Absolutely stupid.

Embrace the Neifi!

by Whitebacon on May 31, 2005 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions

This drives me crazy...

...watching a guy like Burnitz bunt in this situation. Just the worst kind of inside-the-box, do-what-the-book-says-at-all-costs, lame-ass management I've seen since, well, the last time Dusty did it. Having Hollandsworth bunt in the 10th wasn't much better, IMO.

At least Tracy did the same with JD Drew and Choi. Gotta love the bad balancing the bad.

by gharp on Jun 1, 2005 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions

Agreed

Agreed on the Holly bunt - fortunately for the Cubs, Choi didn't charge the ball or they might not have won this game. The little things.

by andyrut on Jun 1, 2005 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions

Like a noble gas...

According to Jon & Joe on ESPN last night, word around the league is that Hee Seop's defense is "inert". Maybe we saw a little of that there?

by gharp on Jun 1, 2005 1:49 AM CDT up reply actions

Scully

Watching the Dodgers feed, and he just said "well, Patterson just keeps swinging, and the count is 0-2."

Truly, the man is indeed an oracle of wisdom beyond even his years.

by 08Cubs on May 31, 2005 11:38 PM CDT reply actions

More Scully

Through the magic of Tivo:

"All Patterson had to do was meet the ball -- dribble it on the ground -- but he was holdin' the bat down on the knob, and swingin' from the heels. And he pays the price."

by 08Cubs on May 31, 2005 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions

More Scully

Even though he didn't originally say it, he brought up a quote from Baylor about Corey that had me cracking up and it was:

"Right now were just trying to keep him from swinging at the rosin bag."

Classic.

by strohdkill on Jun 1, 2005 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions

Cory

The team would be much better off with a player with less speed and ability that plays the game to win.Cory may be the most selfish player in the history of the Cubs.But maybe if he was playing for a guy that was more interested in results than being a 'players manager' we would see a different player.As it stands the Cory-Dusty combo ain't gettin her done.

by jimhickman on Jun 1, 2005 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions

Agreed

On Corey possibly being the most selfish Cub of all time.

Last night scully was subtly implying that much and Scully did his all not to go on a rant about ...."You can hit me leadoff and I'll leadoff, but if you're asking me if I want to leadoff, that's another story.........."

by strohdkill on Jun 1, 2005 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions

Patterson's AB

Vin Scully, the master, made a very interesting point as Corey K'd with two runners in scoring position in the ninth. He noted that he was not choking up on the bat at all. Not trying to put the ball in play. On the replay of the strikeout he said: "Patterson holding the bat down at the knob and swinging from his heels, and paying the price."

I gotta say that as much as I love Corey's potential, I wouldn't be heartbroken to see him playing CF in Kansas City, or perhaps Oakland. Go be potentially good somewhere else.

by Ross on May 31, 2005 11:43 PM CDT reply actions

I'd take Oakland

KC doesn't have anything we need, except for maybe Zach Greinke.

Embrace the Neifi!

by Whitebacon on Jun 1, 2005 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions

Jinx!

Jinx- you owe me an Old Style....

by Ross on May 31, 2005 11:44 PM CDT reply actions

You Got It

I dislike most visiting announcers, but how can you not love Vin Scully?

Between the Nats smackdown of Atlanta earlier (live) and this, it's been quite the evening!

by 08Cubs on May 31, 2005 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions

Five in a row!

Prior should go down more often. ;)

AC026097

by gjdow on Jun 1, 2005 12:33 AM CDT reply actions

Off topic:

Just saw this on ESPN: Sammy Sosa did his bunny hop today on a fly ball that Johnny Damon caught in front of the fence.

Old habits die hard...

AC026097

by gjdow on Jun 1, 2005 2:43 AM CDT reply actions

It was

hit in the "Bermuda Triangle" part of right-center. about six inches to the right, and it's gone, or just a few feet to the right, and it clears the fence easy.

Embrace the Neifi!

by Whitebacon on Jun 1, 2005 2:55 AM CDT up reply actions

Not a surprise

But I was never amongst those who thought that Sosa would come back strong. When you start losing it due to age, past numbers don't much matter any more. This has hardly been a face saving season for Sosa and one wonders what will happen if Sosa finishes the season with a .245 average and less than 20 hrs. Does Sammy call it a career? I doubt it, he's going to want a grand finale where he gets adulation every where he goes. Is he willing to sign a deal at a significant pay cut? The benefit of Sosa used to be that he broght fans to the ballpark but any smart GM isn't going to want the free swinging Sosa near a young team.

I've said it before, but if Sosa continues to sputter along, I bet he plays a few years in Japan before calling it a career.

DmL

by dmlichte on Jun 1, 2005 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions

Sosa...

... just might go to Japan. When I was there in 2000 they were thrilled. I imagine he is still idolized over there.

I would imagine that if his numbers decline again this year, for the fourth straight year, there wouldn't be any MLB team that would pay him what he would be asking.

After looking like a possibility to break Aaron's HR record, Sosa may not even make it to 600.

by Al Yellon on Jun 1, 2005 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions

Very true!

I lived in Japan for most of the 90s, and as most of you know, they are very much into baseball. During the time I was there, the interest in MLB grew at a fantastic rate starting with Cecil Fielder's 51 HR season for the Tigers in 1991 (Fielder had been with the Hanshin Tigers in 1989), and then even more so when Hideo Nomo broke in with the Dodgers in 1995 (every start was broadcast live - at 6am).

McGwire and Sosa's chase of the record in 1998 was front page news in Japan, and I guess Sosa seemed more likeable than McGwire, so everyone was rooting for Sammy over Mark. Let's face it, Sammy circa 1998 WAS more likeable than McGwire!

He's still VERY popular in Japan, and a team there with a ton of yen (i.e. Yomiuri (Tokyo) Giants) could sign him for $5-7 million without blinking.

However, Sam wants MLB records. I'd find it very unlikely that he'd finish his career there. I think he'll get 600 (he only needs 22 more), but it will be in the US, not Japan.

by Dan @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jun 1, 2005 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions

How old is he REALLY?

There has always been speculation on the validity of Sosa's age. Add that to his recent bouts with injuries, he seems to be in the classic mold of the aging power hitter. I woulod speculate that he has one more mediocre year and a couple of bad ones before he retires. I am sure there will be some team that will give him a 3 year contract after this year. Maybe in the AL as a DH.

I do agree with dan that he will probably not go to Japan. He has always talked about the MLB hall of fame, Clemente and the rest; that he will not put up numbers that do not matter for the HOF.

by victor @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jun 1, 2005 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Sosa...

... is already in the HoF. But he risks now ending his career with several really bad seasons. The pitching in Japan isn't what it is here and he could concievably go over to Japan and put up a few seasons with 40 HRs again.

DmL

by dmlichte on Jun 1, 2005 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions