rules of booing

by billywan on Jul 28, 2005 5:12 PM CDT Comment 22 comments

what are they? surely all booing and heckling can't be off limits. let's talk about it.

here's a couple that should be a start.

when the player is on your home team:

it is ok to boo when a player is openly dogging it. however, just generally sucking is not ok to boo, if said player seems to be legitmately trying to achieve. (examples of boo-worthy behavior: not running out ground balls, not hitting cut off men, not hustling on defense)
it is ok to boo when a player has done something horrible off the field (for example, beaten his wife, run over a kid in his car, gotten a dui, etc.)

what else?

just booing a guy who's not playing real well shows a lack of understanding of baseball, and makes wrigley a more and more embarassing place to take in a game.

when a player is on an opposing team:

it's ok to boo a player who is great, just because you don't like the team he's on. it's not a big deal. just part of baseball.
same as #2 above.
in fact, it's probably ok to boo a guy who isn't great, but just hit a home run or somehow ruined the cubs day.
i'll even go so far as to say a little good natured chanting is all part of the home field advantage. but one must be at least somewhat creative. "over-rated" is a classic. the old school daryl strawberry-esque "da-ryl" is acceptable. "da-ryl-sucks" starts to get questionable. or as i once heard a guy say "victorino, i'm gonna follow you down to triple a, find you, and heckle you from the outfield because you suck!" also going too far.

getting drunk and saying semi-violent things that you think are funny makes wrigley a disgrace, as well.

what do others think?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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griffey jr.

I was at a Rockies-Reds game a few years back and had got beautiful seats just above the rockies dugout. Ken Griffey Jr. had been really cold since starting with the reds about three months prior. A guy right above me yells while Griffey is at the plate ".216?!?!?", which of course was his batting average at the time. Griffey whiffs at the next pitch and then turns his head and glares right at the guy! I empathize with ken, but it really was hilarious that the guy got to him like that.

a good team can't be beat!

by WrigleyCat on Jul 28, 2005 5:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

well said

and I agree with all points.

When class is forgot, it's embarassing.

Story from my minor league days. We were playing on the road in Columbia, S.C. Middle of August. 95 degrees and 95% humidity. A fan about 5'10" and 350 lbs thought it would be funny to ride me all night. I led my team in wild pitches (a converted OF just learning to pitch). This guy told me how bad I was, how my team hated me, how my sister was waiting for him at home, how my mom....well, you get the point. Essentially this guy was just a show-off barking out all this stuff in front of 250 of his closest friends. In between innings, I called out to him and asked why he was all over me. He said it's part of basbeall. I told him he has no idea about baseball if that's his take. He berated me for another inning endlessly. Finally sick and tired of his crap, I called out to him again, "Hey buddy, are you fat or do you just swell up in the humidity?" The entire section busted out laughing and ridiculed him. He tried to continue his rag session, but the fans told him to shut up and stop. I went in to pitch an inning later and got a standing O from the crowd.

Point being, there is a time an place for booing and calling out names. But there is a line to cross and more often than not the offensive people ruin it for the masses.

by socalbob on Jul 28, 2005 5:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

What about...

...people that you didn't like on the Cubs that have been traded to another team? (i.e. LaTroy Hawkins, as he was booed when he came from the bullpen with the Giants this past few days)

by Keith on Jul 28, 2005 5:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i am open

to all sorts of booing of people on the other team. i didn't see the game, but as i understand it the chants were "hawkins sucks!" which is just so lame and uncreative that i can't endorse it.

by billywan on Jul 28, 2005 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you too...

... but about Hawkins, the booing in this case was perhaps also an attempt to unnerve him and make him give up hits to the Cubs, which in fact he did.

I don't think this is unreasonable, UNLESS it gets personal, or profane, or racist. Those things have no place in baseball.

by Al on Jul 28, 2005 5:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah

i'm all for booing to unnerve and generally irritate the visitors...like i said above though, not the hawkins sucks thing. do you think there's a distinction, or it's all fair game? (honest question...)

by billywan on Jul 28, 2005 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's a fine line

I personally feel the "Hawkins Sucks" is over the line. If it were a "Haw Kins Haw Kins" than that is totally different. Similar to the "Lar Ry Lar Ry" chants in NYC against Chipper and the "Dar ryl Dar ryl" chants against Straw--those are both good. The "sucks" is personal and not necessary. If it was a loud and heart-felt "BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!" then that is cool too.

by socalbob on Jul 28, 2005 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah

I didn't know it was "Hawkins Sucks." I thought it was just booing. Take my post below with a grain of salt. . .

Hey-Dawson backwards is Noswad!---Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jul 28, 2005 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Hawkins Thing Was Out Of Hand

Yeah, it's a baseball tradition to boo. But the point was made the first time he made an appearance in the series and was booed. The Hawkins Sucks episode was completelty classless and uncalled for. I was ashamed for those people when I was watching that. The close ups they should of the people doing looked like a bunch of whiny losers themselves. And when it gets down to it, it wasn't as if Hawkins was intentionally grooving pitches when he was a Cub. The guy was trying, it just wasn't good enough. By all accounts, he was and is a decent person. And as for the people who claim the booing was "getting to him", I'd suggest not. he pitched just the same when he was a Cub as he does now with the Giants at Wrigley. In other words, compared to what, how could anyone tell?

by BeerCub on Jul 29, 2005 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

From where I was sitting...

...fans weren't saying or chanting "Hawkins sucks." We were all chanting "HAWK-INS" repeatedly.

To me, that's fair. He's an ex-Cub who was dismissive of the fans and media, and he's coming in during a tight game to try to hold the lead.

I agree that anything a kid couldn't or shouldn't say in front of his mother is bad form (thus, no "Hawkins sucks" chants, etc.). But chanting a guy's name, or booing seems totally fine and fair to me, especially if they're on the other team. Ex-players who left for greed, to a rival, etc. are also totally fair game regardless.

As for our players, I'll agree that guys in a slump shouldn't get booed, and that we should only boo when a guy does something bone-headed or lazy. I'll include a relief pitcher throwing 4 straight balls in that list. Corey didn't deserve booing to me, because he always looked like he was playing hard, even if he struck out and had no plate discipline.

by Chadnudj on Jul 29, 2005 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you

and I have to pay attention to how much the fans boo the relievers we have. If they do, I haven't noticed it because it hasn't been strong enough. Some of the relievers we have are worse than Hawkins. I hope people boo with reason because I feel at this rate, if D-Lee goes into a slump even he will get booed.

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Jul 29, 2005 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This was just a big topic of conversation

on The Score, and Doug Buffone made a really good point (I thought). He said, if it were a Bears game, and Cade McKnown came up for the opposing team, and fans started booing to the point that they got inside his head and took him completely out of the game, the Bears would all be out there waving their arms to get the fans booing even louder, and afterwards everyone would be talking about the fans being the "12th man" on the field.

I'm not a booer, I don't teach my kids to boo. However, I don't understand this recent outpouring of sympathy for Hawkins. I know I'm always harping on all his stupid statements to the media insulting the fans, but I really think it says a lot about his character and about his mental state. Remember, he had problems in Minnesota, too, like refusing to move his chair out of the field of play while sitting the bullpen, and eventually getting tossed out of the game. While here, he stated that the media doesn't get to question anything he does, because "I can do what you do, you can't do what I can do." He stated that he didn't play for the fans, and he threw a tempertantrum at the TV set in the clubhouse in front of reporters during the steroid hearings. I really think that the guy might be mentally unstable.

I think Doug made a good point. The fans aren't necessarily booing just because they hate Hawkins, but also because they know that it's so easy to get into his head and completely take him out of the game. In a sense, it's the fans doing their part to help out the team. I agree, if it were a football game, everyone would think the fans were doing all they could to help the team out.

I don't know, Hawkins is just such an unsympathetic character to me. Maybe if they were booing Fassero or Alfonseca like that, I would feel differently. But Hawkins did plenty to alienate the fans while he was here, both off and on the field.

Like I said, I'm not a fan of booing, generally, but in this case I just don't have that big of a problem with it.

Flame away. . . .

Hey-Dawson backwards is Noswad!---Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jul 28, 2005 6:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well said

I agree completely, and I also didn't realize until today that the fans were chanting "Hawkins sucks." (That's probably because I haven't been paying any attention for the last week or so--I had the bar exam to get through.) I think that particular chant is a bit over the line, although, as Julie says, there's pretty much no player more deserving. But, if it were just straight booing, I frankly have trouble seeing the problem.

by Molechaser on Jul 28, 2005 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey

Congrats on being done!
I remember those first glorious days after it was over. Freedom! Now the waiting begins. What state are you in?

Hey-Dawson backwards is Noswad!---Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jul 28, 2005 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Illinois

I'm having a horrible time even keeping my eyes open today. I felt fine during the exam and afterward, but I think the stress and worry and effort finally caught up with me this morning. At least I have a couple days off before going back to work.

by Molechaser on Jul 28, 2005 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's my horrible results story

back when I took the bar in 1998, results were not yet available online--you had to wait for them to come in the mail. They arrived right before a three-day weekend (can't remember what holiday or why--maybe Columbus Day?) For everyone but me, that is. That's right, all my friends and my husband found out on Friday that they passed, and I had to wait until Tuesday to get my results. That totally sucked.

I'm sure you did great. Take a few weeks off and try to recover!

Hey-Dawson backwards is Noswad!---Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jul 28, 2005 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What did he say about the fans that was

so awful? You have referenced this a few times, but I don't remember anything Hawkins said to the media that was insulting.

by dfrancon on Jul 29, 2005 6:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

First

He said something along the lines of "I don't play for the fans, I play for my teammates."

Hey-Dawson backwards is Noswad!---Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jul 29, 2005 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To the media

he A) called a press conference to tell the media that he wasn't talking to them any more; and B) stated that they weren't allowed to question anything he did, because "I can do what you do, you guys can't do what I do." This year he said that he didn't care if the fans booed him, because he didn't play for the fans.

If you listened to Dan Bernstein and Terry Boers at all during the past few years, they had reports practically every week of something stupid that he said. I'm sorry, but I can only remember specifically those three incidents, in addition to his claims that the umpire that threw him out of a game last year had it in for him because they had an altercation in Minnesota when LaTroy refused to move his bullpen chair out of the field of play.

According to some of the clubhouse reporters on The Score, and of course, this is unsubstantiated, and I don't personally know it to be true, he was also one of the big attitude problems last year, along with Mercker and Alou. One of them intimated that he was the player that was anonymously hanging up newspaper clippings in people's lockers whenever someone on the team said something that he deemed to be unfair about another player. Of course, there's no proof of that.

I just never got the feeling that he was this great guy that everyone talks about. He pretty much seemed like a moody, whiny, spoiled brat to me.

Hey-Dawson backwards is Noswad!---Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jul 29, 2005 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, Julie, for the detailed info!

I had not heard about any of these things . . . I live in Dallas, so my Chicago media access is somewhat limited. It does sound as if he is a jerk, but I have to say that I still am opposed to booing him. I think it makes us look worse than it makes him look. But I have pretty narrow "rules of booing," as billywan would say, in that there are few situations where I think it justified, with the recent actions of Kenny Rogers being one of those few situations.

Just my take on it!

by dfrancon on Jul 29, 2005 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also

thought about our players. I don't know about the players who were in the batters box, but if that was going on I would be a little unfocused. I mean not only hawkins is trying to block the noise and failing, but every other player hears it too. They could have killed Hawkins but didn't. I don't think they were devasted and highly affected, but I do think someones focus other than Hawkin's was affected. Barret definitely wasn't one because he hit a home run, but he also did it pretty quickly probably when they were just booing.

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Jul 28, 2005 7:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Jim Hendry was on

WGN this morning and stated that LaTroy brought a lot of this on himself, saying that he made a lot of statements while he was here that alienated the fans and the media. I was shocked to hear him admit that--at least he acknowledged that this is not just the fans hating LaTroy becuase of his blown saves--which is more than Dusty ever did.

He went on to say that LaTroy was a much better person as an employee and teammate than he made himself look with all his stupid statements. Hendry said that fans have the right to boo, and his real issue with "Hawkins Sucks" was that Latroy's kids were in the crowd at the time.

Hey-Dawson backwards is Noswad!---Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jul 29, 2005 8:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs