Open Thread: Cubs vs. Braves, Thursday 7/7 (Doubleheader)

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2005 8:41 AM CDT in Chicago Cubs Game Threads

The weather forecast for the Atlanta area is still iffy, but the local radar there doesn't show any rain right now.

Ramirez has walked more than he has struck out and has allowed sixteen homers in 93 innings. That's awful, but guys like this have been eating the Cubs for breakfast, lunch and dinner all season.

It's time for that to change. This thread will be open all day, for discussion of both games. Reminder (and it's listed on the left sidebar, as it is every day), game 1 is at noon CT on CSN, game 2 at 6:35 pm CT on WGN.

Game 1 Starting Pitchers


M. Prior Cubs	vs.	H. Ramirez Braves


5-2	W-L	7-5
2.86	ERA	5.09
72	SO	29
18	BB	34
10	HR	16

Game 2 Starting Pitchers


J. Williams Cubs	vs.	J. Smoltz Braves


1-3	W-L	9-5
4.96	ERA	2.68
22	SO	96
10	BB	33
5	HR	7

Discuss amongst yourselves.

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Comments

Dusty's habit

Cox could also be reacting to Baker's habit of filling out lineups for doubleheaders. He starts with a lot of subs, then if the team is behind, brings in the starters as pinch-hitters late in the first game. Then, they're all warmed up for the second game, and the starters mostly play. From the Braves' standpoint, this would allow Ramirez to face the Cubs' worst hitters early, while Smoltz will deal with the better lineup.

by cubzfan on Jul 7, 2005 11:00 AM CDT reply actions

Why don't we jettison Hairston?

Here's a question: why don't we trade Hairston? He seems to be a capable 2B that can lead off. Couldn't the Twins use him? If we trade for Mark Kotsay, the A's could use a leadoff hitter, and they already have a need for a second baseman. If we traded Mitre and Hairston for Kotsay, that would give the A's another MLB-ready pitcher and an everyday 2b-leadoff man, while clearing up the logjam they have in the OF. Hairston could still shift to the OF and also act as their 4th OF. If we go for Winn, we could include Hariston in that deal as well, as the Mariners have totally given up on Bret Boone.

This team needs a leadoff hitter, and Hairston and Walker are not the answer. They are capable of being serviceable leadoff hitters, but won't get the opportunity to do so under Dusty. Hairston won't get the chance often because he misses signs, and Walker won't because he's not fast enough. Thus, we need to get a Kotsay, Winn, or Lawton.

The Cubs will thrive in twenty-oh-five!

by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Jul 7, 2005 11:24 AM CDT reply actions

So let me get this straight...

We need leadoff guys.

We have 2 leadoff guys who are at least okay.

The manager would rather bat other guys who are incapbable of leading off.

And the solution is to get rid of the leadoff guys you have?

How about getting rid of the manager who's too stupid to give these guys a try?

Let's play two!!!

by jsmckay on Jul 7, 2005 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions

And you can bet...

... that if somehow Hendry were able to acquire Kotsay, Baker would bat him sixth.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2005 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Ahhh....

I think we've got Dusty all figured out!!!

Let's play two!!!

by jsmckay on Jul 7, 2005 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions

zambranofan!

That makes a lot of sense. This always bugged me about managers who do this. But then a lot of what Dusty does bugs me because I read Earl Weaver's book on strategy when I first started following baseball. That and reading BaseballPrimer and Sabrsavvy books has poisoned my mind!

Earl insisted that he always played games one game at a time even doubleheaders. You just do not know how a game will turn out. Why should you use scrubs in a game and delibrately put yourselves in a hole?!

I thought that Hendry was waking up when he released Wilson. I was hoping he would release Macias soon enough. But NOOOO. I do not understand why you keep defensive specialists on the bench? What you need are pinch hitters who can hit certain kinds of relievers: lefties, righties, sinkerballers whatever. Most guys on bench should have a discernible skill of being able to hit SOME kind of pitching. What kind of pitching can Macias hit? He is a switch hitter who cannot hit both righty and lefty. The argument is always that he can play multiple positions. Playing multiple positions badly is no skill. The variance between a good fielder and an average fielder is way WAAY less than between a good hitter and a HORRRIBLE hitter like Macias.

by victor @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 11:25 AM CDT reply actions

Oh no

Looks like Hairston's been spending too much time with Patterson. 3 pitch strikeout. Nice. And he of the 5+ ERA breezes through the first inning.

Pronounced: zam-BRAH-no

by Dan @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 12:11 PM CDT reply actions

But!

For the first time in seven games, the Cubs have not allowed a run in the first inning.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2005 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Prior looks good

Hope he can keep it up. BTW, I'm MLB.tv has the Braves feed on FSN South today. Don't know who these guys are (and to lazy to look it up), but at least its not Chip and Skip.

Pronounced: zam-BRAH-no

by Dan @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Well...

... according to FSN South's website, they are Bob Rathbun and former White Sox announcer Tom Paciorek.

Sound right?

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2005 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Yep - you got it!

I used to watch Tom's brother Jim play in Japan back in the early 90s. He was pretty good - won the league batting title in 1990 with a .326 average. Wonder if he can lead off?

Pronounced: zam-BRAH-no

by Dan @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Well...

... other than the fact that he's now 45 years old, maybe.

Note that in his 48-game major league trial with Milwaukee, he had 12 walks in about 100 plate appearances.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2005 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Oh, the horror

I'm listening to the Braves broadcast on MLB.com, and they have an ad with Skip Caray talking about Verizon wireless. His voice is quickly becoming a clone of his father's. It is fairly alarming. Chip must be terrified to see what he will look like and sound like in 30 years.

Hey Corey, go be potentially good somewhere else.

by Ross on Jul 7, 2005 12:26 PM CDT reply actions

How do you double on a ground ball to SS?

Sorry, I was doing actual work related stuff and missed the play on Betimit's double(?) Did Ronnie boot it or something? Why no error?

Pronounced: zam-BRAH-no

by Dan @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 1:18 PM CDT reply actions

Betemit's double...

... was actually down the line, off Ramirez' glove.

As the score is now 6-0, I think this game is over.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2005 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, that'll be 7 straight

Regarding our earlier discussion on old guys leading off, if a 46 year old Julio Franco (and for all we know, he might be 56) can still crank out homers and hit .285, how long till Rickey Henderson is leading off for the Cubs?

That .494 OBP with 41(!) walks in 113 ABs looks pretty good.

Pronounced: zam-BRAH-no

by Dan @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Today's...

... CSN trivia question of the day was, "Who was the MVP of the 1990 All-Star Game at Wrigley Field?"

Of course, the answer was Franco, whose double drove in the only runs in a 2-0 AL victory.

There are three other active players from that game: Roger Clemens, Ken Griffey Jr., and, believe it or not, Sandy Alomar Jr. (who is having a far better year than Henry Blanco, incidentally.)

Four others if you count Barry Bonds, which I don't.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2005 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Oh God...

...I hope nothing's wrong with Prior...what a disastrous inning.

by chmcneel on Jul 7, 2005 1:29 PM CDT reply actions

yep

game over. Now's the time to play Macias and get Ramirez out of there. Bring in Patterson to CF, move Hairy to LF, Dubois to 1st, & sit Walker. Heck even put Holly in RF for Burnitz.

by Thunderclap Newman on Jul 7, 2005 1:31 PM CDT reply actions

Its official. Hairston has morphed into Patterson

2 consecutive 3-pitch K's, then a first pitch line out. Hey, maybe Dusty will play him more now!

Pronounced: zam-BRAH-no

by Dan @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 1:39 PM CDT reply actions

Game. Set. Match

By the time play is over today, the Cubs will be 4th place in the divison, and 7th in the Wild Card standings.

Anyone who thinks this team is still capable of making a post season appearence is delusional.

by Ivychat on Jul 7, 2005 1:39 PM CDT reply actions

Cubs minus D-Lee =

horrendous.

I'm not European, I don't plan on being European, so why should I give a crap if they're socialists.

by cubsfan726 on Jul 7, 2005 1:48 PM CDT reply actions

This sucks - 1 Hit?

"That's all we got, one g*damn hit?"

"You can't say g*damn on the air!"

"Don't worry, nobody is listening anyway."

When all else fails, channel Harry Doyle.

Pronounced: zam-BRAH-no

by Dan @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 1:49 PM CDT reply actions

2003

Looks more and more like a fluke everyday. How can one team look this bad. Hope we don't play another game till the break.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 1:51 PM CDT reply actions

A hit!

We're startin' to roll now, boys!</sarcasm>

Pronounced: zam-BRAH-no

by Dan @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 1:56 PM CDT reply actions

I really

can't take the performance this team is putting out anymore. Can't really do anything about it except not watch.

Get in touch with your inner Neifi

by Josh Timmers on Jul 7, 2005 1:57 PM CDT reply actions

Cy Ramirez: 76 pitches thru 7

Of course it helps when he faces the most impatient team in baseball. FIVE 1-pitch at bats, FIVE 2-pitch at bats, and Hairy's 2 craptacular 3-pitch K's.

I'm about ready to give up on these clowns, too.

Pronounced: zam-BRAH-no

by Dan @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 2:03 PM CDT reply actions

100 pitches total

Wow, thats about 4 2/3 for Kerry! Obviously, Ramirez is a lightweight.

Am I glad that one is over!

Pronounced: zam-BRAH-no

by Dan @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2005 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions

QUESTION: Is Dusty capable...

of removing a star pitcher BEFORE he gives away the entire game?

Let's play two!!!

by jsmckay on Jul 7, 2005 2:03 PM CDT reply actions

ugh

This game..why do i watch...Al give us strength man...this game/series has been horrible - don't you have some bit of news/rumor you could pass on to the masses via the blog to give us hope about this team - an impending trade, some statistic about this year vs last year....something - anything?

by Weesh187 on Jul 7, 2005 2:20 PM CDT reply actions

Man, I wish I did...

... off to make a game post, which will be mercifully short.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2005 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions

No heart

Who was that pitching for the Braves today. Was that Bob Gibson in his prime. All these pitchers in this series except for Smoltz are unknowns, but against the cubs you would think their Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson in their prime. Don't worry guys it is not time to be urgent their is still a long season ahead. That is the problem with the Cubs Organization they live of these self fulfilling prophesies that never happen. Henry and Baker believe that they can be like Huston last year. There is one bid difference they had heart.

by Boneheadbaker12 on Jul 7, 2005 2:52 PM CDT reply actions

you're wrong on the difference...

Houston had no heart, and they were in the crapper just like we are now. They canned their manager and traded for the best player available in the trade market, and the new manager kicked everyoe's collective ass into gear. THEN, they had heart and came back to win the wild card.

The Cubs will thrive in twenty-oh-five!

by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Jul 7, 2005 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions

And...

...a GM that made a big acquisiton. Carlos Beltran sure helped.

Oh, and no crap about how Jim Hendry will do the same before the deadline. The Astros didn't wait to the deadline last year. THEY DID THEIR MOVE ON JUNE 24TH!!!!

Hendry could have gotten a short stop last may. He waited 70 games until he did.

How many more games do the Cubs win with Cabrerra in May instead of Rey Ordonez?

Hendry waited too long. Again.

by Ivychat on Jul 7, 2005 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions

I disagree...

... because the Astros were STILL in the crapper on August 24, two months after the Beltran deal.

On that date, just before their series with the Cubs in Chicago that many think was their turning point, they were 63-62, six games behind the Cubs who led the wild-card at that time.

They went 30-7 from that date on.

Is this Cub team that good? No, it's not.

But it's not August 24, either. There are a lot more than 37 games left, and time to make moves. Could there have been some made up to now? Yes.

But it's not too late. Lighten up, Chuck. We already have Jay Mariotti to slam everything Hendry does or doesn't do.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2005 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Good Point

I forgot about that. The Cubs will not fire Baker. The Dusty Baker managerial style only works with players past their prime. He is not a good fit for this team. The tribune will not eat his salary

by Boneheadbaker12 on Jul 7, 2005 3:10 PM CDT reply actions

We need a Steinbrenner

This is where having a corporate owner sucks. They'll make money with Dusty even if the Cubs lose pathetically. It'll cost them money if they fire Dusty.

Any tough individual owner would be too embarrassed not to fire him at this point.

Let's play two!!!

by jsmckay on Jul 8, 2005 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions