Opinions wanted: Article on Lee for MVP

by jtiet on Sep 12, 2005 8:08 PM CDT Comment 16 comments

Dayn Perry writes in Fox sports that his choice is for Lee as MVP and one of the statistics he uses is from Baseball Prospectus. RBI opportunities and RBI-Per-Runner. It shows something that has been talked about here all along - No one on base in front of Lee, fewer opportunities. His RBI-per_Runner is higher than the players he's compared to; Pujols and A. Jones.
Hopefully, this link will work:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/48519

I've felt all along that Lee has been more vital to the Cubs success, than Pujols or Jones, although I feel Pujols is awfully close.

Thoughts?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Oh gosh...

you beat me to it. I just read this article like 10 mins ago. And of course Lee is the MVP. I hope all the writers read this.

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Sep 12, 2005 8:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

MVP is....

most important in helping their team win. The Cubs are not winners, therefore Lee cannot be MVP.

He is unquestionably the Player of the Year, but not MVP.

Carpenter, Pujols, Clemens, A. Jones, Cabrera, Willis, etc are more deserving.

by socalbob on Sep 13, 2005 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you should read the column

use the link I posted below. Here's an excerpt...

-------------
"The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:

Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
Number of games played.
General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
Former winners are eligible.
Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.
You are also urged to give serious consideration to all your selections, from 1 to 10. A 10th-place vote can influence the outcome of an election. You must fill in all 10 places on your ballot.

Keep in mind that all players are eligible for MVP, and that includes pitchers and designated hitters.

Only regular-season performances are to be taken into consideration. "

by Thunderclap Newman on Sep 13, 2005 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

where do you fall?

I still maintain the word "value" has to do with helping his team win. I don't see Lee having that great an impact on the Cubs winning--not because of his performance, but the Cubs are 20 1/2 games out of 1st place. Just my personal preference. I do agree with the article that Lee is the best player in the NL this year.

I just wish he would have kept his average up over .350. He's hitting .289 since July 1.

by socalbob on Sep 13, 2005 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

to be honest

I just wish they'd change it from MVP to something else, so the "he's got to be on a winning team" debate would end. Cy Young is pretty clearly given to the Best Pitcher. Winning team only enters that debate when the candidates are rated very close to each other.

by Thunderclap Newman on Sep 13, 2005 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know this is OT

but how do you feel about the NL CY Young?

by socalbob on Sep 13, 2005 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This one is tough for me

because I just have a visceral dislike for Clemens. If you look at the stats and take W/L out of the equation, it's clearly got to be Clemens. If one includes W/L, I'd vote...

1 Carpenter
1a Willis
2 Clemens

You?

by Thunderclap Newman on Sep 13, 2005 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

as a proponent

of the "Wins are the most over-rated stat for a pticher in basbeall" I vote for Clemens. Carpenter had a fantastic season, but Clemens superiority is borderline substantial over Carpenter. And I have a large disdain for Rocket like you. But not quite as much as I have for Cashman or Pettite because if either of those jerks took care of business, then we wouldn't have had to watch Houston at all. They would have become the Brewers or Pirates.

This Cy race reminds me of the '98 MVP battle with Sammy and McGwire.

by socalbob on Sep 14, 2005 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

If the award were titled "Player of the Year", there would be no doubt.

But "valuable" is a subjective judgment.

by Al on Sep 13, 2005 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes...

I agree with this comment.

But I still think they need to think about Lee. I mean last year Pujols was not the MVP because he had plenty of people on the team that contributed. That is why in a way I feel it should be easy to see Lee an MVP and possibly Ramirez if he wasn't on the DL. They both have carried this team. They have won games for the Cubs. Lee has carried this team, this is why when they struggle it means Derrek Lee hasn't done well. If you factor Lee from the equation, where would the Cubs be? That is why I don't think Albert is much of an MVP, but more like a player of the year every year. His team is already good without him. I think the strongest candidates are Jones and Lee. They have won plenty of games for their teams, and that is why at this point, I think Jones will win it.

I think it is amazing that we complain about his .289 average since the break when that is a pretty good average to have. I'm optimistic but I'm worried about Derrek next year. He has made his standards so high, that I don't know what some fans are going to think if he doesn't perform at this level next year. I love D-Lee, but he isn't Pujols. He could still have a great year, but he will have a hard time topping this one. So I really hope Cub fans don't want him traded if he doesn't do the same thing next year.

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Sep 13, 2005 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

.289 average

wasn't complaining Sparkles but pointing out a fact. If Lee was over .350 he would have a sdtronger case. But I'm not so sure he wins the batting title now. A lot in doubt as of this post.

by socalbob on Sep 14, 2005 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Understood...

it just sounds like it. I think he kind of flip flopped his year, he usually does good the second half. He should at least win the Hank Aaron award, which I hope everyone here has already given D-Lee a vote. That is one award we can control, even though its still not the MVP.

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Sep 14, 2005 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

MVP is not who is most important

MVP is who is most valuable to their team. That is why players like Andre Dawson have won the award for losing teams. If you take away DLee from the Cubs they are not even close to .500 and have may on the verge of being eliminated. Where as with DLee's production the Cubs still have hope with their current streak and 7 games left with the 'Stos.

On the other hand if you take away Pujols away from his team they still have there starting pitching and superior defense. Maybe they aren't running away with the division, but they are still in first. I can make the same argument for Jones who is not even hitting .285.

Cabrera who has similar numbers to DLee may be almost as important to his team as DLee is, but in my opinion he is not quite there.

If you start to factor in the pitchers then you are getting into some muddy water. Yes, they both have 20+ wins, but playing once every five games for an entire season cannot, CANNOT, translate into being Most Valuable in the league.

by tcjhawk on Sep 13, 2005 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I consider

the Cy Young like MVP. Only its Most Valuable Pitcher. And if the pitcher has been really, really good then you give them the MVP. D-Lee is kind of like in a similar situation as Clemens. D-Lee and Clemens have outstanding numbers, but the team they are with isn't helping. D-Lee's team is not a contender, and Clemens can't get W's. But they still have been the best.

By the way, I still think Carpenter is the Cy Young winner. I'm not really sure though.

Cubbie blue always sPaRkLeS in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Sep 13, 2005 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs