Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Jerry Sandusky's Wife Tries To Run A Reporter Over

Offseason Grades from Fox Sports:

For what it's worth, Fox Sportsnet gives the Cubs a "D" grade.

I disagree with them on Juan Pierre; I think he'll be just fine.  

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5198854

Excerpt: "Additions: RP Scott Eyre (three years, $11M), OF Marquis Grissom (minor league contract), RP Bob Howry (three years, $12M), OF Jacque Jones (three years, $16M), OF/INF John Mabry (one year, $1.075M), INF Neifi Perez (re-signed; two years, $5M), CF Juan Pierre (acquired from Marlins), SP Glendon Rusch (re-signed; two years, $6M)
Subtractions: OF Jeromy Burnitz (Pirates; one-year contract), SS Nomar Garciaparra (Dodgers; one year, $6M), OF Todd Hollandsworth (Indians; minor league contract), C Mark Johnson (Brewers; minor league contract), RP Sergio Mitre (traded to Marlins), OF Corey Patterson (traded to Orioles)

Needs: Outfielders, shortstop.

The lowdown: The Chicago Sun-Times reports that the Cubs are still in talks with the D-Rays involving SS Julio Lugo.

Off-season grade so far: D.

Pierre is roundly overrated, and the Jones signing smacks of a "well, we've got to do something" manner of non-move. The Cubs have done little to improve."

Fire away, Cubs fans!  If this was previously posted, I was unable to locate it at BCB, so my apologies to all!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

Comment 99 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I usually like Dayn Perry...
...and I agree with most of his comments about most of the MLB teams. I think he is guilty of grade inflation with some teams, most notably the Padres,  and the Angels, who have done nothing to improve their teams. If the Angels get a C, how do the Cubs get a D? Arbitrary criteria, that's how. He's also too coy about the Astros, who will not stink nearly as bad as many baseball pundits think.

That being said, he's totally, utterly and completely correct to say that the Cubs have done little to improve. Oh, they've TRIED to improve, and I'm sure they think they've succeeded; but that offense will be as woeful as last season.

by dr johnson on Jan 26, 2006 3:25 PM CST reply actions  

in other words
Oh, they've TRIED to improve, and I'm sure they think they've succeeded; but that offense will be as woeful as last season.

"i refute it THUS!" :)

by gaius marius on Jan 26, 2006 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

And...
...though my toe is exceedingly sore, I will continue to kick at the stones in my passway, until the refutation is finished.

by dr johnson on Jan 27, 2006 7:48 AM CST up reply actions  

i don't understand
He's also too coy about the Astros, who will not stink nearly as bad as many baseball pundits think.

this phenomena. is it that they won't make the series again? well, i suspect not too -- but the astros are going to be a good ballclub nonetheless, and almost certainly better than the fourth-place cubs, with or without clemens.

the central race really should be a wonderful three-horse affair, though, with milwaukee joining the fray.

by gaius marius on Jan 26, 2006 3:32 PM CST reply actions  

Oui...
...and I don't understand why everyone assumes that Clemens won't pitch in Houston again. What are his options? Retirement? He just pitched one of his finest seasons ever. Yankees? They'll win the AL East, but the pitching is still suspect. The Rangers? Not yet a playoff team, stuck behind the A's and Angels. If the Astros do indeed walk away from the Bagwell debacle with 17 million dollars, they might just entice Roger back come May. Regardless, they're good enough to win as it is. The NL Central will be competitive, but the Astros will have every chance to win it or the Wild Card.

by dr johnson on Jan 26, 2006 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

gaius, what do you think
would bring you greater personal satisfaction:

1) season plays out exactly as you predict, cubs winning about 75 games and finishing in 4th place.

or

2) the cubs, as currently constructed, win the world series this season

in the former, you get to gloat how much smarter you than those who think the latter is actually possible, no matter how remote the possibility.  you also will have more evidence in your attempt to get your boycott movement off the ground.

in the latter, you would lost a tremendous amount of credibility in the eyes of those who listen to you constantly belittle the cubs and their fans.  but you would be able to celebrate the cubs winning the world series.

my hypothetical, so please limit yourself to choice 1 or 2.

All wil be fixed in 2006

by DSZ on Jan 26, 2006 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Why?
Why does gaius, or anyone else brave enough to criticize the Cubs, elicit such ridiculous antipathy around here? It's absurd. I've never read a post in which gaius "belittles" the fans of the sacrosanct Cubs. No Cub fan would rather see the Cubs finish below .500 than win the World Series and this hypothetical either/or is sour grapes.

I happen to be critical of the Cubs and have been a fan for 25 years and that doesn't for a minute mean that I wouldn't be surprised by joy should the Cubs some day win the World Series. I refuse to stop criticizing a team so addicted to mediocrity, just as I refuse to stop passionately cheering them on.

Being a fan doesn't mean liking everything your team does anymore than being a citizen means liking everything done by your government. It would be nice if Cub fans could refrain from taking criticism of the Cub organization personally, and allow for some healthy dissent.

by dr johnson on Jan 26, 2006 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

defense of the collective
well said, dr johnson.

for my part, i think it the natural reaction of a self-selected community that enjoys things about the entertainment more related to postmodern escapism than winning. it's a different measure of success -- one much more easily attained, to judge by the satisfaction with the antiquarian "wrigley experience" that is pervasive here and in many places, and much more viciously defended, depending as it does on an atmosphere of less-than-honest optimism that requires widespread complicity.

i hardly expect otherwise, though i hope to one day.

by gaius marius on Jan 26, 2006 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm going to say this again...
... we all want the Cubs to win, including me. We simply disagree on the method.

You are entitled to your opinion, and apparently you feel you are entitled to belittle mine.

I ALSO happen to enjoy going to the ballpark, seeing baseball in person, and sharing it with good friends.

If you don't, that's fine with me. But you absolutely, positively do not have the right to criticize me for that.

by Al Yellon on Jan 26, 2006 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

why don't you add
a no belittling rule and a no criticism rule to community guidelines.  It's your site, so just disallow them.

by csb059 on Jan 27, 2006 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Great idea!
What this site needs is less debate, not more! I'm sick of all these naysayers expressing their opinions and feel they should be banned from posting. Hell, I'm even considering banning myself so as not to offend anyone!

by dr johnson on Jan 27, 2006 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

severe misreading
of my post.  there is no criticism of gaius in there at all.  if you want to read it in there, that's all on you.  i appreciate gaius' comments on this board.

my question arose from my thinking that anyone who dwells on the negative as he does on this site (he could be a closet optimist) has become so focused on helping others see what he thinks is the error of their ways that he himself would fail to adequately appreciate the miracle of the cubs winning the final game of the 2006 mlb season.

as for your point that it is "brave" to criticize the cubs.  please explain what is brave about criticizing a team that is the symbol of futility in sport.  should gaius be worried that sparkles is going to hunt him down and kick the crap out of him?

All wil be fixed in 2006

by DSZ on Jan 26, 2006 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

perhaps
should gaius be worried that sparkles is going to hunt him down and kick the crap out of him?

you never know. :)

truly, though -- "belittle" is too strong a word. i argue from the conviction of empiricism, and a lot of people find that intimidating, i know.

furthermore, people who wishfully ignore the evidence of history and the probabilities for the future that spring from them are idiots, often deliberately so -- and i refuse to softball that fact so that i can contribute to the already nearly vanished standard of public debate in this society. while i try, in the interests of civility, to refrain from calling anyone directly an idiot, the use of the word is too often altogether appropriate when delineating (non-)arguments -- and that can also raise the choler of some who are more interested in pacifist escapism than in a search for verity.

in short, i feel truly that i belittle no one who argues well -- indeed, i then find it easy to be appreciative, even laudatory.

but to people whose only interest is seeking some undeserved reinforcement of their currently-held delusion... well, i am perhaps less so.

none of that precludes me personally from taking some satisfaction in seeing the cubs win, even if by blind luck alone.

by gaius marius on Jan 26, 2006 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't speak for anyone else
But I wouldn't call what makes me hope for the Cubs pacifist escapism. I enjoy a good fight or argument more than most, and I do appreciate that some people are willing to shake things up. Real debate is something long in decline in this country, and increasingly desperate measures will be needed to resurrect it the longer the trend continues. But I'd have to take issue with the way you express your opinions. I have a friend who loves to play devil's advocate and frequently is contrary for its own sake. Problem is, noble as his intentions may be, he more often than not comes off as a pedantic ass. We all have good reasons for rooting for the Cubs. Honestly, I doubt the kind of fans you rail against so frequently and vehemently care enough about the team itself even to be on a blog like this; I'd wager they don't give the Cubs a thought until they're at the game trying to pick up members of the opposite sex. To my mind, the Cubs represent that romantic part of all of us that wants to see the underdog win, though the smart money's against it and our intellects tell us it's not going to happen. I suppose the point of this long and meandering response is to say that you don't come off as thought-provoking or clever as much as angry, frustrated, and (verbally) violent because so few of us here agree with you. You rarely insult anyone directly, but your tone always indicates a smug feeling of superiority that will always hinder your ability to be persuasive. Just my two cents.

by Perkins on Jan 26, 2006 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

He should be...
I can kick the crap out of anybody. :)

We talked about this the other day, in anatomy class.  Happier people repress things a lot better, while depressed people don't.  I repress things alot, but they are still there.  I personally don't want the Cubs, one of my favorite things, to make me feel bad so I look at them positively.

So many bad things happen to the Cubs that you can't ignore them, but I move on.

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Jan 26, 2006 5:01 PM CST up reply actions  

OK...
..."you constantly belittle the cubs and their fans"

Those are your words, not mine, and where I come from that is a criticism. A moderate criticism, but a criticism nonetheless. But you aren't the only one. Many posters on this site seem to take great offense at those of us who are less than pleased with this rudderless ship named Cub. You may appreciate gaius' posts, but I daresay many do not, and there are many diaries on this site to prove it.

As for "the miracle of the cubs winning the final game of the 2006 mlb season," I think that goes to the heart of my dissatisfaction. Should the Cubs win the World Series, it would not be a "miracle," that word has another meaning in our lexicon whether one believes in their existence or not. Winning in baseball is predicated on good roster construction, savvy management, and more than a little random chance. If Cub fans persist in thinking that their lovable losers will win because of a miracle, they will continue to accept the often inept decisions that this organization makes. That is faith misplaced.

And perhaps my use of the word "brave" was inappropriate, though I only meant that in the face of irrational criticism, often based upon sentiment rather than consideration, it is a form of bravery to state the obvious. The antipathy displayed upon this site toward anyone who deigns to crticize the Cubs is proof that I am not deluding myself.

And should gaius, or any of us, be worried about the long arm of sparkles? Maybe. sparkles does sound like a tough character.

by dr johnson on Jan 27, 2006 7:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow
IMO that was a great response, Doc.  I'm not the best at putting my thoughts into words, but after reading this I'm sure we think very similarly about the Cub team and the organization that runs that team.

by csb059 on Jan 27, 2006 7:43 AM CST up reply actions  

you've
been posting on this site for all of two days, doctor. i'm not sure where you get enough information to say that people's view of Gaius is absurd. There was LOTS of criticism of the Cubs before Gaius got here. Lots of intelligent debate.

Gaius is an extreme pessimist. I don't understand why one would want to live that way, but that's his choice (it is a choice). But he's condescening and treats people, for some reason especially al, like dirt. i think thats a bunch of crap and i will continue to point it out as long as he keeps coming here and posting it.

by tomas21 on Jan 27, 2006 5:24 PM CST up reply actions  

2 -- obviously
it looked to be happening in 2003 and i was beside myself with joyful anticipation. until....

by gaius marius on Jan 26, 2006 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

i thought
you were only happy for 10 days?

and for you're other question--i'd take the world series and soldier field. if the bears can play at wrigley, why can't the cubs play at solider field?
i like the spaceship--on the inside at least.

by tomas21 on Jan 26, 2006 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

and now i have a hypothetical for you
what do you think would bring you greater personal satisfaction:

1) season plays out exactly as i predict, cubs winning about 75 games and finishing in 4th place -- but you personally win free season tickets in the section of your choosing;

or

2) the cubs, as currently constructed, win the world series this season -- but wrigley field burns to the ground in march, before the season begins, and they sign a ten-year contract to play their games in soldier field.

just curious -- i really have no idea how you might answer.

by gaius marius on Jan 26, 2006 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

now that is a question
that should be on the main page.  far more interesting and thought-provoking than arguments based on events that have yet to occur and trades that will never happen.

i'm not sure what i think about that one.  i am sure that my getting free season tickets would not play a factor in my decision.  the choice that leaves, of course, is would i trade wrigley field for a world series win.  the answer is that i would.  even if it meant the cubs play in soldier field for the rest of my life, not just the 10 years.

because once the cubs win the world series, i will finally realize that all of the time and money i invest into following them would be far better spent on much more productive and important endeavors.  intellectually, i realized that some time ago.  but i'm in too deep to get out now.

i sure would miss relaxing by going to a game at wrigley though.

All wil be fixed in 2006

by DSZ on Jan 26, 2006 4:32 PM CST up reply actions  

good man
the answer is that i would.  even if it meant the cubs play in soldier field for the rest of my life, not just the 10 years.

that's the proper goal.

i'd miss it too -- but i'd almost rather it happen now, so entwined with the cubs' basic problems has that "cathedral" become.

by gaius marius on Jan 26, 2006 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

and this
all of the time and money i invest into following them would be far better spent on much more productive and important endeavors

an important realization.

by gaius marius on Jan 26, 2006 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

oh my god
if anyone voted for keeping Wrigley Field over a World Series, please reconsider. I mean this.

by Slaky311 on Jan 26, 2006 4:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Wrigley is amazing...
and I would be pretty sad if that happened. But I don't care where the Cubs play, as long as they are still close to Chicago.  World Series over anything.     And I do mean anything.  If trading Z guaranteed a World Series, I would trade him, even though it would break my heart and I might die right after the Cubs win it all.
Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Jan 26, 2006 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I would vote for Wrigley
because the set up assumes that they finish poorly
in 2006 ONLY  Vs winning a WS and playing a decade at
Soldier Field? As someone for whom actually
at watching game IN PERSON  is an essential part of my experience that would be worthless.
Now if this were a shade more balanced such as
Cubs are forced to build a new stadium in the
Chicago area I'll take the WS but playing in Soldier
Field would pretty much ruin it for me. ( unless
we got Wrigley or something like it back in 10 years)

If the Cubs were just something I watched on TV
I guess it wouldn't matter but I think if I did not
go to a lot of games I just wouldn't care much.

by jessica on Jan 26, 2006 6:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Well said, Jessica....
...I have to agree with you there.

I would rather the Cubs finish 4th this year, we keep WRIGLEY FIELD, and they win in 2007, 2008 AND 2009!!!!

GO CUBBIES!!!

by southerncubbie on Jan 26, 2006 6:16 PM CST up reply actions  

well
I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one. And I live right next to Wrigley, the fire may burn my house down that March. Still dont care. World Series over anything. Just one. But thats just me.

by Slaky311 on Jan 26, 2006 6:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Watch out
For a nicely dressed & well spoken man
arriving on your doorstep with small contract
promising you that WS in exchange for ....
( well lets just say look for the tail & horns).

Actually I WOULD sell my SOUL for a WS
but I would not let the Cubs rot in Soldier Field
for enternity for one.

by jessica on Jan 26, 2006 6:34 PM CST up reply actions  

no personal offense -- but
If the Cubs were just something I watched on TV I guess it wouldn't matter but I think if I did not go to a lot of games I just wouldn't care much.

i think you represent a significant contingent of the people here, jessica -- and i find this statement repugnantly selfish. that statement indicates that you simply don't care about any aspect of the team not having to do with your immediate personal enjoyment. for so long as you are entertained, who cares if they win or lose? and who cares about what anyone else gets from it?

the thing about winning is that it is a collective goal, something we can all really and actually participate in stewarding the team toward, even from generation to generation.

the thing about the "wrigley experience" is that it is entirely self-indulgent -- fundamentally antisocial and deeply escapist.

i imagine that most of us participate in both aspects to some degree or another -- but by the time that you can say that having a good time at the park is more important than the accepted goals of the entire society of fans going back across generations, you've frankly abdicated the right to be called a fan, imho.

by gaius marius on Jan 26, 2006 7:53 PM CST up reply actions  

This about being able to WATCH baseball
Live and in person. I really do love Wrigley
and would be really pissed if they ever moved
but if they moved somewhere else I could actually
watch the game I could live with it. You CAN NOT
watch a baseball game at Soldier Field. If being
a selfish Cub fan means that watching the game
in person is essential to my being a fan than yes
I am selfish bitch but you CONSTANTLY set up
false scenarios  in that only when the Cubs do exactly
as you say will you ever support them. I believe they
can win IN Wrigley without spending 200 million though
120 million or so would be nice. Those generations of fans you speak of were Cub fans who became fans watching them live or on TV at Wrigley. Since 4 of the 5 last WS winners have done without having the mega payrolls there is NO reason
 the Cubscan not. I am more than willing to criticize  bad moves but I don't ascribe to them a deliberate plan of putting
out a mediocre team to appease stupid fans

Lets face it we keep saying the same thing over and over
but I am still a bit mystified as to why you bother as
you have so much hatred towards Cub management, players
and us stupidly loyal fans.

This one is it for me. No point in wasting blog space
when I could be posting another Maddux anacdote

by jessica on Jan 26, 2006 8:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I disagree...
...for two reasons.
-Even though I never will have a command of language as many others do, I believe she is the only one who can "abdicate" her right to be a fan.
-Being a fan is very subjective. Not using a dictionary, but today's commonly accepted, IMHO, definition of being a fan is very up in the air. Being enthusiastic about a team, if you listen to most "fans", may be because they love their uniforms, they love the city, they like a particular player, their spouse likes the team, their team is winning, etc. etc. Maybe what we are talking about is the degree to which one is a fan...and how is that possible to be determined? How is one more a fan than another? What are the accepted and unaccepted reasons for being a fan?
Maybe for many, the park or stadium is a big factor in being a fan. Does being a fan mean I agree with everything the team does on the field or in the office? Does it mean I can't agree with management? Does it mean I can't like the game experience more than the outcome?

What is a fan? Are there degrees of such?

"Made his major league debut on September 17 and stayed in the lineup for 424 games, a record start-up."

by letsplaytwo on Jan 26, 2006 10:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I think...
Wrigley should be burnt to the ground right now.  It's not a home-field advantage for the Cubs and never will be on any consistent basis.  Why Wrigley is celebrated by so many Cubs fans is beyond me.  I love the beauty of the ballpark, too, but I'd burn that thing down myself and go to jail for doing it if it meant the Cubs would build themselves a ball park away from the lake where they have a better chance of taking advantage of those games at home.

by Maddog on Jan 26, 2006 11:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't even need a World Series to do it.
See you later, Wrigley.  I could care less.  It's a fantastic ballpark and an amazing sight being a baseball fan, but Wrigley Field has nothing to do with me being a Cubs fan.  Just as the names on the back of the jersey mean nil to me.  Trade them all, burn Wrigley down.  I don't care.  The Cubs will eventually win a World Series in Wrigley.  It will happen, but they'll NEVER be an annual contender in that ballpark.  

by Maddog on Jan 26, 2006 11:39 PM CST up reply actions  

agree totally
I'll be a fan of the Cubs even if they played in the Welles Park next to Al's sons team.  In the final analysis, Wrigley Field doesn't mean squat to me.  I'd enjoy the watching the games in person no matter where they are.

by csb059 on Jan 27, 2006 6:45 AM CST up reply actions  

agreed
they'll NEVER be an annual contender in that ballpark.  

the park is the source of a lot of their problems.

by gaius marius on Jan 27, 2006 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

What on Earth...
... does the ballpark and the lake have to do with ANYTHING???

by Al Yellon on Jan 27, 2006 8:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Wind!
The wind at Wrigley--blowing in, blowing out and cross winds--make Wrigley a damn near impossible place to win in.  Like the Rockies who play in the high altitude of Denver, the Cubs need 2 teams to win.  

The Rockies simply need a team to win at home, which is something they've been good at or at least respectable anyway.  They also need a team that can go on the road and win games which is something they've been miserable at.  

The Cubs need 2 teams just to win at home.  One that can score lots of runs when that wind is blowing out and one that can scratch and claw for runs when it's blowing in.  The Cubs have never been very good at the latter.  

There is a reason the Cubs have never won at Wrigley Field.  I don't believe it's as much because of inept management as some would have you believe, but because of Wrigley Field itself.  You cannot build one team to be successful at home.  If you cannot build a successful team around your home ballpark it's time to find a new home.  

Yes, the Cubs have had some inept management in their years, but I think it's only highlighted because of Wrigley Field.  

The occasional season's that will probably slip through our fingers will come and go as long as we stay at Wrigley, but we're never going to be able to contend on an annual basis in my opinion.  

Wrigley Field is simply a home field disadvantage.  Moreso than any other home "field" in any sport.  

by Maddog on Jan 27, 2006 9:02 AM CST up reply actions  

that's an interesting notion
when i talk about their problems being bound up in the park, i mean economically -- the park and its assiduous marketing as alternately a "cathedral" and a beer garden have dissociated winning from attendance.

but that is an interesting point about team construction i'd never really considered.

by gaius marius on Jan 27, 2006 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm.
I admit that I have also overpriveleged management over park factor as the predominant cause o'woe. But I wonder whether a "scratch and claw" team, preferably built around OBP and ground ball pitching wouldn't win both on the road AND at home. I feel that the current staff will continue to have trouble in Wrigley because there are several flyball pitchers (Prior, Maddux, Wood, Miller) who give up too many HRs, while Z and Williams are ground ball pitchers who should have decent Wrigley careers. This offense ain't a "scratch and claw" offense and will no doubt continue last year's struggles at home. Not pretty.

by dr johnson on Jan 27, 2006 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

A few points
Maddux certainly gives up more than his share of
Home Runs but he is a GROUND BALL pitcher in the
extreme. I don't think the wind makes any difference on
the rocket shots he does give up

I am amused by the idea that Wrigley wind is a major
reason the Cubs allegedly could never win at Wrigley. This is
an old crutch /falacy which I don't believe the players
have ever used. The arguement that the Trib is too
complacent by the crowds it draws regardless of the
team' s performance is understandable but the financial
end of building a new park AND keeping it filled up would
leave a financial strain that would very likely lead ANY owner
to severly reduced payroll but it is a more valid arguement
re Wrigley than that the park itself is the problem

I guess I will just keep being the resident selfish gullible
idiot who actually values seeing games in person with
a nice view

I am curious about Maddog's belief that he hates Wrigley
( or at least wants it burned) and does not care a rats' ass
who the players are. It seems there would be very little
reason to be a Cub fan at all as all you have left is a Club
name.

by jessica on Jan 27, 2006 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

lol
the financial end of building a new park AND keeping it filled up would leave a financial strain that would very likely lead ANY owner
to severly reduced payroll

which must be why everyone is clamoring for a new park.

jessica, the revenue they would generate from tripling the number of skyboxes alone would damn near pay for the park. much less the parking, which they would then control and earn from, and the opportunity to construct their own ballpark neighborhood pubs, a la camden yards.

by gaius marius on Jan 27, 2006 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Club name is all I need
I am a Cubs fan.  I will root for any player that is on the Cubs so the Cubs can be a better team.  I do not care if that player is Matt Morris, Charles Manson or Osama bin Laden.  I do not have to like the players that are on the team.  I am a Cubs fan.  

I've been a Cubs fan since 1980 and not one of the players on that team is still on the Cubs as you well know.  So why do the players on the team matter?  They don't.  

I'm an Iowa Hawkeyes fan when it comes to college and we all know that each player has 4 years and then they're gone.  But we still root for our favorite college teams regardless of who the players are.

The same holds true with professional sports.  I do not care what name is on the back of the jersey.  

Do I really want Wrigley to burn down?  No.  It's a beautiful ball park and in my biased opinion it's the greatest ball park ever.  I do, however, want the Cubs to find a new home.  One that is not a landmark, but merely a place for the Chicago Cubs to play their NIGHT baseball.  

by Maddog on Jan 27, 2006 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I understand but
Taken to the extreme you appeared to be saying
that Cubs could go out now and buy and or trade
for an entirely new 25 man roster , move to Soldier
Field and win the WS and you would be happy
I admit that I would NOT. I understand players change
all the time but I do get affections for some ( guess who
among others and I am guessing from your moniker
you agree) so players do matter on SOME level.

Since Wrigley nearly always ranks in the middle in terms
of both hitting and pitching and since like most teams
the Cubs USUALLY win more games there than on the road
I don't buy the "you must tear Wrigley down for them to win"
theory. Anyway they are NOT moving ( this was very clear at
the convention) so it academic.

Um I don't suppose I could convince you or Gaius to violate
your principles  and do the wristband ticket thing next month?
 I am always looking more victims, I mean volunteers

by jessica on Jan 27, 2006 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

For the record, Jessica,
I never mentioned Soldier Field or winning a World Series except in saying (and of course I was joking when I said this) that i'd burn down Wrigley even without a guarantee of a World Series.

I also get affections towards players.  By the end of the season I feel i've spent so much time with these guys that they've become my friends.  Seriously, that's how I feel.  

But that doesn't change the fact that I root for, first and foremost, the name on the front of the uniform.  And I wasn't kidding about rooting for Manson or bin Laden were they Cubs.  I would.  I would not like them, but while they were on the field they can help the Chicago Cubs win and i'd be rooting for them.  

Of the current Cubs, Carlos Zambrano is probably my favorite player while Greg Maddux is my all-time favorite player.  That being said, Jessica, i'd trade them both in a heartbeat.  And then i'd find out when they were pitching and i'd turn their game on and watch them if they weren't playing opposite the Cubs.  

We're all different and how we root for our favorite team is going to vary.  

by Maddog on Jan 27, 2006 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I just....
like to root for the Cubs in a positive way.  

I agree on the player thing. I get VERY attached to players, but if trading one of them guaranteed a World Series, I would trade anybody.  

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes. Time to sPaRkLe Jimmy!

by sparkles721 on Jan 27, 2006 7:07 PM CST up reply actions  

My opinion...
...is that the "cathedral" atmoshphere that Wrigley has or has been given is responsible for the fans, or at least a very large portion of the fans, simply not caring if they win or lose.  I'm not as positive as you are that that lack of passion from the fans has a negative effect on those who run it.  There is more money involved in the Cubs winning than in the Cubs losing regardless of what the payroll is so I tend to believe that the owners do in fact want to win, but they just lack the know-how to do it.  

I just believe, more than any other reason, the inability to win is because of Wrigley Field itself.  Well, not even so much Wrigley Field as it is the location of Wrigley Field.  That wind is a hindrance to winning baseball in Chicago.  I just don't think you can put your team in a situation where your home park plays 2 different ways as Wrigley does.  

The one thing you know heading into each season is where you're playing and you have to build your team around that ballpark.  But Wrigley is both large and small and on the days it's blowing across the field it's average.  

The problem with building a team full of home run hitters is that you are going to struggle in games the wind blows in.  Also, if you build a team that can "scratch and claw" you're going to lose games when the wind blows out.  

Can you build a team that can do both?  Hit the ball in the air and scratch and claw for some runs?  I don't know, but I do think that teams become defined as the season moves along.  They aren't restrained to that definition, but it does become obvious what kind of a team one is.  

To be honest with you, I think the construction of the 2006 Cubs offense is at least an attempt to win with the wind blowing out and with the wind blowing in.  Much moreso than the 2004 or 2005 versions were anyway.  

How this upcoming season plays out is going to be interesting in my opinion because I do feel the Cubs can win without the home run and they can also win by hitting the ball out of the park.  

So, according to my theory, we have a team that is basically average.  A team that can win without the long ball and one that can win with it.  The problem is that they'll do neither of those very good.  They'll often come up one long ball shy when the wind is blowing out and one run shy when they have to move runners over and manufacture runs.  That precisely the problem with having to build 2 teams to win at home.  You simply cannot build 2 great teams.

My prediction is the Cubs will be slightly below average at home because of their natural disadvantage and average on the road because they will be able to hit the 3-run home runs and they will be able to manufacture runs.  

We all know that in sports you have to dominate at home.  If you cannot dominate at home your chances of winning are almost non-existent.  The 2006 Cubs are not going to dominate at home because, in my opinion, the wind conditions create 2 different home ballparks.  

Burn Wrigley down!

by Maddog on Jan 27, 2006 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Refreshing...
...though Wrigley isn't going anywhere, so what are we left with? Even if your theory is true, the public outrage would be felt in Nepal were anyone foolish enough to propose building a new stadium, since so many fans probably don't care about park factors or lineup construction but do care about Wrigley Field as the Mega Sports Bar attraction it has become. Cub fans are in love with the church, not the religion.

If your theory is true, and it would take a sophisticated SABRmetrician to try and prove it, then this organization is in trouble as long as this regime is in place. Unless you subscribe to the "but no one picked the 2005 Sox to win it all and look what they did" philosophy, which somehow doesn't assuage my perpetual dismay.

by dr johnson on Jan 27, 2006 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

the thing about this is
that, if you go through the recent record, the cubs are consistently better at home than on the road -- often a lot better. the 1997 team, which won 68 games, went 42-39 at wrigley. in 2005 it was inverted; and in 1995. but every year in between, the cubs were a better home team.

by gaius marius on Jan 27, 2006 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

True!
My theory isn't standing on solid ground by any means.  Too bad Wrigley wasn't standing on the same weak foundation my theory is, but I do believe it to be true.

Sure, there are going to be years in which they play well and I think we'll both agree that there will be years like 2003 that are more appropriately called anamolies considering it's the Cubs.  That being said, and i'll admit I haven't taken the time to look around at other teams, but i'm willing to bet that other teams that have been good, historically, have been dominant at home and probably slightly above average on the road.  

Has this ever happened to the Cubs at Wrigley?  

They're bound to have the occasional year where they play better at home than in year's past, but I don't believe the Cubs can consistently play well at home because it's much too difficult to build one great team let alone 2 great teams which is what I believe they must have to be annual contenders when your home field is Wrigley Field.  

by Maddog on Jan 27, 2006 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

This is a valid point to argue...
... but it works both ways. If the wind blows in 2/3 of the time (which it has in recent years), then the ballclub could win with pitching, and not relying on a power offense.

In 2003 they did do quite a bit of that, but as we all know, the 2004 and 2005 teams weren't built that way.

IF HEALTHY, the 2006 team COULD win in just that way.

Incidentally, it is my opinion -- and the Cubs have gone on record as saying the opposite -- that the bleacher expansion project will, at least to some small extent, reduce the "pitcher's park" effect on days when the wind blows in.

As I said, the Cubs disagree -- but I point out that the White Sox had no idea that when they took the top of their upper deck off, that it would turn the Cell into a launching pad.

by Al Yellon on Jan 27, 2006 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

i disagree
If the wind blows in 2/3 of the time (which it has in recent years), then the ballclub could win with pitching, and not relying on a power offense.

with this statement. the wind blowing in, fwiw, is the great equaliser for pitching. shawn estes can pitch a no-no in that park when it's coming in from left center at 40mph. in effect, the wind coming in neutralizes both good pitching and a home-run offense.

the only thing that works in that case is baltimore-chop small ball. incoming wind flattens the breaking stuff and allows you to make better contact, placing the ball, sacrificing, hitting and running.

now, we can argue about the quality of cub pitching, but i think what we can conclusively say is that the cubs have one, maybe two small-ball players (pierre and possibly murton). neifi and cedeno don't draw enough walks to qualify on obp terms; lee and aramis hit the ball in the air too much. so this team, beyond its almost-certain general offensive struggles (being a low-obp team that won't hit enough homers), will not be the scratch-it-out team that can win with the wind coming in. and that isn't dusty's style anyway -- he's no larussa.

by gaius marius on Jan 27, 2006 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

You know...
... I was pretty much agreeing with this take on the offense.

But still, with the pitching the Cubs COULD have if healthy, they can still win with the offense they have.

Say what you want about the 2005 White Sox, they were NOT a small-ball team. That's a myth.

by Al Yellon on Jan 27, 2006 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

to digress on pitching
sure, if the spheres align, they could go 162-0. but realistically...

-- wood and miller will probably do more damage than good, to themselves and the team, if they do anything at all in 2006;
-- prior's arm is going to trouble him until they properly diagnose his elbow pain -- and if they do properly diagnose it, it's probably the knife for him -- and then there's the shoulder rumor, which i grow ill even to consider;
-- z is showing some signs of overuse too, as we discussed before, which is neither here nor there as long as he holds up;
-- williams has never tossed more than 130 or so innings, so it's hard to tell what we'll get from him;
-- and rusch is rusch, unfortunately.

that leaves a rotation of z, problematic prior, aged maddux, young williams and shawn estes 2 -- a group not exactly devoid of question marks. could it be good? well, better than 9th in the NL, perhaps. but could it be bad? yea, verily.

i think we could once consider starting pitching a strength on this club. not really so anymore, imo.

by gaius marius on Jan 27, 2006 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not a myth.
They were not a "small ball" team as defined by Joe Buck or whoever else is doing the defining, but that team manufactured runs.  Hit and runs, stolen bases, moving the player over and sac flies are the definition of a team that manufactures runs even if that team hits lots of home runs.  The White Sox did both.  What they did best was play scrappy baseball just like their manager did.  

by Maddog on Jan 27, 2006 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

no myth, indeed
they led the al in sacrifice hits, 2nd in hbp, 2nd to last in gidp and 3rd in stolen bases -- all hallmakrs of a good smallball team.

all that while being 10th in extra base hits and 8th in total bases.

everybody talks about their power, but i honestly don't see much foundation for that -- they seem to have accidentally lifted a few more doubles into the seats than most, but hardly were a powerful team.

by gaius marius on Jan 27, 2006 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

more than anything
they were a good fundamental team.  being a good fundamental team has become synonamous with being a small ball team, but i don't think that applies to the sox. they seemed to do everything well, including hitting home runs and good times.

they're park likely did have a lot to do with their home runs totals, though. theyr'e home/away splits were pretty dramatic, and that's about as easy a place to hit a line drive home run as there is.

by tomas21 on Jan 27, 2006 5:37 PM CST up reply actions  

they
were near the bottom of the AL in OBP, which is one of the most key stats of a small ball team.

by tomas21 on Jan 27, 2006 5:38 PM CST up reply actions  

bleacher reconstruction
For what it's worth, I also hold the same opinion you do, Al, in that the bleachers should tame the wind when it's blowing in, which gives me great pause because Jim Hendry built a team that is going to score even fewer runs in 2006 than we did in 2005.  

Yes, this team could contend in 2006 if they are healthy.  But they aren't going to be healthy.  "If healthy" is simply a way a measure a team in the offseason according to the talent that they have.  We have so many injury prone players on this team that even saying "if healthy" just doesn't make sense let alone the fact that teams just don't stay healthy.  The Cubs are going to have injuries.  It's a matter of fact.  

It's also more than likely that they'll suffer injuries with the players who are most injury prone.  That just happens to be the places the Cubs are most vulnerable.  They cannot afford to have injuries to Prior, Wood, and Ramirez.  I don't think they can afford to have one of those players injured.  

Also, and this is my final comment on this issue, having to build 2 teams to be great at home is just not feasible.  You can't do it.  There isn't enough roster space let alone money to do that.  And as long as the Cubs play in Wrigley with the wind blowing in and then blowing out 2 teams are necessary to dominate at home.  If you build your team around the idea that Wrigley is a small park then you make yourself vulnerable to the days the wind blows in.  If you build it around the idea that it's a large park then you make yourself vulnerable when it's blowing out.

Other teams do not have this issue.  The middle ground is that you build a team that can win games both ways, but to do that you lessen your chances to win games with the wind blowing out as well as weakening your chances to win low-scoring affairs with the wind blowing in.  

If, as you say, the wind blows in 2/3 of the games then the Cubs would be smart to build a team that can manufacture runs and see what happens.  The last thing I saw was a few years ago and it seemed to be broken into thirds.  1/3 of the time it blew in, 1/3 of the time it blew out and 1/3 of the time it blew across the field or there was no significant wind.  Has that changed?

by Maddog on Jan 27, 2006 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I do remember seeing data..
... from one recent year that showed it blew in about 2/3 of the time, crosswind or no wind influence about 10 games, and the rest wind blowing out.

You're right that they should NOT have to develop two separate teams; I quibble with you assuming that because of prior (no pun intended) injuries, that there WILL be some this year.

One of the reasons the White Sox won is because their entire team was healthy. Yes, you need a bit of luck for that. There's no reason the Cubs can't have this sort of luck.

Interestingly, the 2003 playoff team was in large part forged BECAUSE of injuries. Had Hee Seop Choi and Corey Patterson not been hurt, the acquisition of Kenny Lofton and Randall Simon and the larger role of Eric Karros wouldn't have happened.

This is to say that Jim Hendry did a good job of covering for injury in 2003. He did not do so last year.

by Al Yellon on Jan 27, 2006 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

That's true, Al.
Some teams do get lucky and have very little or no injuries.  

And it may even happen to the 2006 Cubs.  I just think the likelihood of that happening to a team that has had as many injury issues as they have had is slim to none.  

This is a bit off topic of what we're discussing here, but the one area of this team that I do not believe has improved one bit is their defense and fundamental play.  With Cedeno and Murton getting full-time jobs until they show thye can handle it (let's hope this doesn't happen) we can expect a great number of mental errors from both players.  

Pierre is not good defensively (I am still overjoyed that we got him though).  Jack Jones is no different than Burnitz and Todd Walker is not gifted with the glove at 2nd and Barrett, in my opinion, is horrible defensively behind the plate.

That leads me to Aramis Ramirez.  2004 or any other year Aramis Ramirez?  If it's the 2004 defensive version then he could win a gold glove.  If it's the any other year besides 2004 version of Ramirez, wow, our defense is horrible.  

Honestly, Al, do you think that this Cubs team can overcome light hitting, poor defense, and poor fundamental play?  Even if they lead the league in pitching?

by Maddog on Jan 27, 2006 5:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Gaius...
...Milwaukee is still too young to get in the mix.  There's a period of time for youngsters to develop and then adjust (at least for players not named Pujols) and that's the part that's the most difficult for young ML players.  They have a lot of young talent, but they aren't going to compete for the division.  They may finish ahead of the Cubs and at this point I tend to agree with you that they will, but they aren't going to compete for the division.

I also doubt the Astros will be a .500 team without Clemens.  But I think Clemens will be an Astro so it doesn't matter.  Without Clemens they're sending a roation of Pettitte, Oswalt, Backe, Astacio and Rodriquez out there.  That's just not good.  Their offense is no better than it was last year so this team will struggle mightily without Clemens.  

I generally agree with much of what you say and enjoy reading it as well, but I think you're just a bit off on this one.  

by Maddog on Jan 26, 2006 6:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Milwaukee...
...isn't as young as people think. Weeks and Hardy both had decent seasons last year in limited, but significant playing time. Only Fielder is a real question mark. The rest of the team, including the staff, is fairly veteran. There are some youngin's in the bullpen, but like the offensive youngin's, the talent pool is deep and they have the potential to be amazing.

The Indians and A's trotted out pretty young teams with several question marks last year and they both competed for their division titles. The Brewers are in a similar situation. The Brewers nearly reversed their RS/RA splits from 2004 in 2005, and only a contrarian would deny that they have improved both their pitching and their offense during the offseason.

What astounds me is how many Cub fans claim that Houston and St. Louis have regressed toward the mean during this offseason as evidence (so-called) that the Cubs will be just fine in 2006. If this is the case, then why won't the Brewers be even better off? And if the Brewers will be better and the Astros and Cardinals will be worse, as most Cub fans here seem to think, then why not Milwaukee? If you think the Cubs can do it, then you MUST think the Brewers can do it.

by dr johnson on Jan 27, 2006 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm surprised
at how many Cub fans discount Milwaukee. I'm not as worried about facing St. Loius or Houston head to head, as we took the season series against each of them last year, and they are fielding arguably less talented (or at least status quo from last year) teams. The Brewers, however, have given us a lot of trouble of late (I believe they took the season series against us last year...that sweep at Wrigley still stings), and they have arguably improved this offseason. I don't think they will win the division, but they certainly ought to be competitive this year. Incidentally, anyone else think we should go for Carlos Lee in FA after this season?

by Perkins on Jan 27, 2006 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

i really think
they could win 90. dave bush over santos is a big step up in the rotation -- could be worth five wins all by itself. if weeks and hardy play up to expectation and they don't get decimated (for they, unlike the cubs, are built to sustain an injury or two) they really should be in contention.

by gaius marius on Jan 27, 2006 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I read through...
these grades given out. Let's use the Braves as an example.
They lost:
Farnsworth, Furcal, Franco, Marte
They get:
Cormier, Villareal, Pratt, Renteria
Grade:C
The Cubs get:
Eyre, Howry, Jones, Mabry, Pierre
The Cubs lose:
Burnitz, Garciapara, Hollandsworth, Mitre, Patterson
Grade:D
I think the Cubs have improved while the Braves have regressed, yet the grades given do not reflect that. The Braves are not the only example of this in the article.

by Imtrejo on Jan 26, 2006 3:58 PM CST reply actions  

WTF?
[i]Considering the paucity of good shortstops in the NL, that Furcal contract is going to look like a bargain very soon.[/i]

When is that contract EVER going to look like a bargain? Wow. How can I take him seriously now?

by FukudomeAtLarge on Jan 26, 2006 3:59 PM CST reply actions  

sooner than we'd like
it's not like furcal lapped the field. he's not even the highest paid shortstop in baseball.

by gaius marius on Jan 26, 2006 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

#2
He's #2. And not worth that kind of money. There are plenty of more talented and proven SS's in the game than Furcal. He is way, way, way overpaid for his talent.

by FukudomeAtLarge on Jan 26, 2006 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I would like to see your list, Dude.
"There are plenty of more talented and proven SS's in the game than Furcal."

And you can't include SS that haven't been in the majors long enough to qualify for free agency. Since they would have basically zero possibility of receiving a contract in the Furcal $ range prior to having 4-5 years of ML service time, we don't know what the open market would bear for these types of players.  I can think of only three current SS (Young, Jeter and Tejada) and one converted 3B (A-Rod) that I would rate higher than Furcal.  After those four and Furcal, I can't find a veteran SS that is even close in talent or proven production.

by csb059 on Jan 27, 2006 7:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Perry's pathetic.
Have you looked at his top 100 prospects thus far?

Jake Fox is ahead of Mathis and Hirsh. Fox is 4 spots behind Eric Patterson who is two spots behind Pence.

They are ridiculous.

by Ienpw @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jan 26, 2006 4:19 PM CST reply actions  

Actually...
...if you go back and check Perry on Top 100 prospects from 2004 & 2005, you'll find his track record is pretty good.  Better than most, including Baseball America.

This seems to be a specialty of his.

by jazzman56 on Jan 26, 2006 5:08 PM CST reply actions  

Back to the subject
I wouldn't say the team's improved by leaps and bounds, but on paper, it is improved.

I wouldn't give it an A, or even a B, but it's hardly a D, either. But this wasn't the only grade that I was a little suprised at.

"If it takes forever."

by JDay on Jan 26, 2006 5:36 PM CST reply actions  

The Marlins
also got D. Are the Cubs and Marlins the same level of team right now? Now I wasn't too pleased with our offseason, but surely it was better than Florida's.

by Slaky311 on Jan 26, 2006 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

How about this set up Gaius ?
As long as we are setting up false dichotomies

Bill Gates buys the Cubs
He increases payroll to 180 million and signs
8 or more of priciest FAs available. He trades
most of the best farm players   for several established stars
He lures Epstein away from the Red Sox and Ozzie
From the White Sox ( or whoever you like best)
Since he can't do much to Wrigley due to Landmark status
He builds a 600 Million dollar 45,000 seat complex in the
suburbs ( with lots of tax incentives) including lots of luxury
boxes and high end amenities
In the next five years due a string of injuries and
disappointing performances the Cubs finish over 500 4 times
and make the post season twice but are knocked out in the first round
both times

You of course are now a season ticket holder ( only full plans sold
 a halfway decent one in the upper deck costs $3800 per season)
as they have followed your plan right? ( If $7600 is too much of a strain
you at least buy 20 or so games from brokers for a couple  of grand to show
your support?

by jessica on Jan 26, 2006 6:37 PM CST reply actions  

Gates
He wouldn't do any of the such.  Instead, he would eliminate all of the competition and put out a mediocre product that all are forced to accept.  We would go to a stadium seating 150,000 to see a team with Jaque Jones in right.  

by greggie44 on Jan 26, 2006 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

And...
... half the time the game would end after four innings and the field would turn blue.

by Al Yellon on Jan 26, 2006 7:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Your statement....
is very true. You may have been joking but it is very true. Steinbrener(and others) has outspent the lower market teams to make a winning team, driving the market for players sky high. Making it impossible for small market teams to compete, now if more teams start to reach the 150 mil. payroll like Boston is doing and the Dodgers, Cubs, Mets, and Angels are starting to do the small market teams, even if well run, will beacome(and are becoming) a AAAA system for the large market teams. Thus eliminating the competition and making your big market more viable. This and not steriods or expansion/contraction is the true plague of MLB, because the Reds, Pirates, Royals, Devil Rays, Rockies, and Nationals are irrelevant already. Soon to follow will be Oakland, Marlins, Padres, Diamondbacks, Houston, and even Atlanta.

by Imtrejo on Jan 26, 2006 11:55 PM CST up reply actions  

yep
you can bet if some egomaniac (maybe not mild-mannered gates, but i know what you mean) does this and turns the cubs into yankees west, giving a real effort to win, i'm SO there! i'm not at a part of my life where i can buy season tickets with the expectation of using them -- but i frankly would consider buying them anyway, just to reward the behavior, and sell the tickets i can't give to friends.

would it be frustrating not to have things work out? you bet. but i respected the loyalty of boston fans much as i reviled the loyalty of my fellow cub fans because boston was (usually) really trying to win, not just fleece their sheep. it's honest effort i want -- and then let lady fortune take her hand.

by gaius marius on Jan 26, 2006 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Who cares?
What Dayn Perry thinks?  I mean, nothing him or any of us say this off-season makes a damn bit of difference.  He's not giving out the grades--the regular season that starts in April will.  

If I've learned anything about baseball, it's that it's hard to predict anything.  Can you name one baseball writer who picked the White Sox to win it all last off-season?  In fact, most of them, myself included, were to busy ripping them for trading Lee for Podsednik.  That was still a bad move, although not as bad as I originally thought because the cost savings allowed them to keep their starting rotation together and those guys jelled into a world series champion.

It just doesn't matter.  It will all be settled on the field.  There will be time for second-guessing later.

Baseball can be summed up in one word--you never know--Joaquin Andujar

by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2006 1:44 AM CST reply actions  

With respect.
I do get tired of the "nobody picked the White Sox" nonsense.  I'm gonna have to break out those preseason 2005 articles I have again and post them.

The White Sox were picked by several of the baseball writers to win the division, and were mentioned as World Series contenders several times as well.  Everybody knew they had first-rate pitching.

They weren't the HUGE, UNBELIEVABLE surprise that many of the folks on the Cubs blogs seem to want to believe they were.  I know that seeing the Sox as someone everybody picked to win 50 games and have no shot at doing anything gives hope to the diehard Cubs fan who knows in his/her gut what they're going to field at Wrigley in 2006, but it is not rooted entirely in the truth.  

Was it a surprise that they broke an 80+ year drought? Sure.  But is it anywhere near the "out-of-nowhere super-surprise upset champions that everybody counted out and nobody gave a chance" story Cubs fans are clinging to to say "why not us in 2006?"  No.  Not even close.

I'll hope when all hope is lost like the rest of Cubdom, but let's stop changing the White Sox story into some combination of "Rudy" and the Buster Douglas story already.  They were a pretty trendy pick for the playoffs before the season began.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

by The Jade Scorpion on Jan 27, 2006 8:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm....
... I don't remember seeing any such articles, so if you can find any, sure, post them.

Most of the White Sox fans I know weren't that optimistic either.

by Al Yellon on Jan 27, 2006 8:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Not rose colored
NOW THAT...deserves a standing O. Well said my man. The White Sox comparisons have (in my best Dr. Cox impression) GOOOOOOOOOOOOOT to stop.

by Slaky311 on Jan 27, 2006 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

i don't know
that they were a common pick to win it -- most major publications have the flaw of rather obtusely projecting last year into this. but i don't think it was the kind of surprise the 2006 cubs would be. it's more likely that the cubs will lose 90 than win 90 -- and you couldn't say that about the 2005 sox, who had five starters who could win 15 games and a respectable offense.

by gaius marius on Jan 27, 2006 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

You could easily...
...say the same thing about Donovan at SI or anybody else.  You can't just jettison the prognostications that you don't like.

The usefulness is in the rationale behind the predictions.  You may not agree, but at least it gives fans something to think/talk about during the offseason.

There was one guy that got everything right last season BUT the White Sox.  Before the season, he predicted:

AL East - Yankees
AL Central - Indians
AL West - Angels
AL W.C. - Red Sox

NL West - Padres
NL Central - Cardinals
NL East - Braves
NL W.C. - Astros

I'd say that was pretty darn good!  And in his detail, he allowed that the White Sox might have a break through year.  It is true that most prognosticators wind up with egg on their face, but once in awhile one nails it!

by jazzman56 on Jan 27, 2006 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Sigh.....I'll post some of the artciles.
Let's start with Sports Illustrated:

"AL CENTRAL: ...But the pick here is Chicago. The Pale Hose have some pop in that offense, and their pitching is better than you think....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/michael_bradley/03/31/baseball.predictions/1.html

Rob Neyer of ESPN picked the White Sox as well (though ESPN as a whole was Twins heavy):

"Rob Neyer : Why did I predict that the White Sox would beat out the Twins? Because I guessed that Dustin Hermanson, who came into the season with 22 saves and a 4.31 ERA, would have 30 saves and a 1.60 ERA a couple of weeks into August. Because I prognosticated that relievers Cliff Politte and Neal Cotts would both be lights-out. Because I figured that Jon Garland would halve his walk rate, and that Jose Contreras would shave a run-and-a-half from his 2004 ERA. It was easy, really."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2135056

I have some 15 different articles (well, actually about 23, but eight of them aren't considered writers from any major paper or outlet so I don't include them) projecting the White Sox to win the Al Central.  Two of them pick the White Sox to go to the World Series.  One of them picked the White Sox to win.

Above are two recognizable sources to start with.  I can go through the whole prolonged process of posting all the articles if needed.  But these two examples should at least give you a taste of what I'm talking about.

"Out of nowhere" my rear end....

 

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

by The Jade Scorpion on Jan 27, 2006 9:08 AM CST reply actions  

By the way.
I'm not directing my fuss at you Al.  My fuss is with White Sox fans trying to make their team into the new Rudy or Buster Douglas.  It wasn't quite that much of a shocker.

Enjoy your win, but stop rewriting history, Sox fans.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

by The Jade Scorpion on Jan 27, 2006 9:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Neyer's article..
... works really well in hindsight, doesn't it? I agree that his "revisited" article is indeed dripping with sarcasm, directed at himself. He's saying, in fact, exactly what I have -- that NO ONE picked the Sox to have the pitching that they had.

by Al Yellon on Jan 27, 2006 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Please post more
because those aren't convincing.

that's one writer for sports illustrated.  the magazine actually picked the white sox to finish in 3rd place in the division.  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/specials/spring_training/2005/previews/

and rob neyer, who i think it's safe to say was dripping with sarcasm in explaining why he picked the sox, was not only the only espn writer to predict the sox to win the division, none of the others even picked them to win the wild card.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?page=05expertpicks

you're right to point out that anyone who says nobody picked the sox is wrong, but it doesn't change the sentiment that the sox winning the world series shocked the overwhelming majority of baseball writers and fans.

all that said, i will be surprised if even two national writers pick the cubs to win the nl central this season.

All wil be fixed in 2006

by DSZ on Jan 27, 2006 9:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Response:
---"you're right to point out that anyone who says nobody picked the sox is wrong,..."

That was my only point.  I would never suggest that the White Sox winning wasn't a surprise, just not the level of surprise some have tried to make it out to be.

---all that said, i will be surprised if even two national writers pick the cubs to win the nl central this season."---

Here's my deal.  I'll post three preseason 2005 White Sox picks for every 2006 Cubs pick you post.  Ridiculous links (like blogs with four people) don't count.  I suspect I can keep up.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

by The Jade Scorpion on Jan 27, 2006 9:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Amen...
"i will be surprised if even two national writers pick the cubs to win the nl central this season"

Me too. The only baseball writer who would pick the Cubs to win the NL Central is probably the same guy who refuses to cast HOF votes for Bert Blyleven and Ron Santo.

by dr johnson on Jan 27, 2006 9:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Can we just...
....rob ol' you-know-who of his ability to publicly campaign against Santo every year?  I'm pretty sick of it, frankly.

I will not justify him by printing his name.  You know of whom I speak.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

by The Jade Scorpion on Jan 27, 2006 9:35 AM CST up reply actions  

OK
I shouldn't have said "Nobody" because when 350 writers make their pre-season prediction, pretty much every team with that's putting on a reasonable effort is going to get someone to pick them to win it all.  I think I vaguely remember someone picking Detroit to make it to the series last off-season.  I'm sure someone picked Baltimore.

Nobody, that I know of, picked the Royals.  But nobody thought the White Sox were the KC Royals either.  And anyone who thinks the Cubs are the equivalent of the KC Royals is a raving idiot.

Last off-season the White Sox were considered one of three teams that could reasonably win the AL Central, with the Twins as the clear favorite and the Indians as the trendy second pick.  The White Sox were mentioned as the other possibility.  Sound familiar?

Few thought they would make the World Series because almost everyone picked from either the Boston/New York or Oakland/Los Angeles Nexis.  A few contrarians picked the Twins.  But there was no serious support for the White Sox, and to pretend otherwise is revisionism.  ONE out of NINETEEN ESPN experts (Neyer, whom you mentioned) picked the White Sox to win the division.  And he didn't pick them to even make the World Series.

Finally, I'm not comparing the White Sox to the Cubs.  They are built very differently and honestly, I think the Sox got very lucky last season.  My point, which everyone seems to ignore, is that we just shouldn't put a lot of stock in these off-season predictions because, in aggregate, they aren't worth much.  And no one can consistently tell you which ones are right and which are wrong.

Baseball can be summed up in one word--you never know--Joaquin Andujar

by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2006 2:57 PM CST reply actions  

It's about predictions, period.
---"My point, which everyone seems to ignore, is that we just shouldn't put a lot of stock in these off-season predictions because, in aggregate, they aren't worth much.  And no one can consistently tell you which ones are right and which are wrong."---

The problem is, much like with scouts, professional baseball journalists are predictors.  Neither one is guaranteed right, but you tend to take the majority opinion of said groups as good information.  They are around sources we'll never be; they have inside info we'll never have, in many cases.

Why is everybody high on Felix Pie, et al? What has he ever done in the big leagues to make us excited?  Nothing.  But we put stock in the journalists' reports and scouts' analyses that we should expect big things from him.  It's nothing more than predictions, yet we take them seriously.

Same goes with pro baseball writers.  Are they gospel?  No more than scouts are.  But they get more right than wrong about who will contend and who won't.

Once again, I need to qualify my statements by saying that I will root and hope when all hope and chance is gone.  I love my Cubs, period.  But we do have to face the fact that the 2006 Cubs are not as highly regarded as postseason contenders as the 2005 White Sox were.  And it's not because everybody is stupid, or hates the Cubs, or has no idea what they're talking about.

Yes, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays could win the World Series this year, but it's not likely.  And yes, the Cubs could be in the postseason in 2006, but it's not likely.  I'd rather be in the "likely" column, personally, than the "well..........................look at the White Sox!...."  column.

Barring an unexpected offensive upgrade before Spring Training, I cannot see this team pulling a Buster Douglas.  Most of the baseball writers I have read hold much of the same opinion.  Is it a guarantee that the Cubs won't win the World Series?  No.  But it is a realistic snapshot of their chances when everyone around baseball and in baseball media sees them staying home in October.

We don't have to put a lot of stock in what baseball writers have said.  But I will sure as heck put more stock in the majority opinion of baseball writers than I will the simple, raw hope of coming out-of-nowhere and shocking the world.  Yes, you truly never know "for sure;" but MOST of the time, you do know.  

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

by The Jade Scorpion on Jan 28, 2006 8:05 AM CST reply actions  

look on the bright side
No chance of being on the cover of SI
to win it all like 2004. That is at least
ONE curse we avoid

by jessica on Jan 28, 2006 11:44 AM CST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Img_0001_small
Value of Various Plate Approaches
284_small
Cubs' Fantasy Camp 2012 as seen by a Player's Wife
P7200073_small
Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp 2012

Recent FanPosts

Small
Arguably OT: Aussie Baseball Finals Go To Decisive Game Three
Small
New Cubs draft strategy player development
Small
Jazz Up Your Recs!
Jeffnewwork_small
What I Expect From The Cubs In 2012
Wrigley_scoreboard_small
What To Do With Alfonso Soriano
Small
A quick update from the 2012 concessions orientation
Caray_small
Is there any FA left worth going after?
Marvin_the_martian_small
Thoughts On Gerardo Concepcion: Trust The Scouts
Star_small
What if Hendry were still our GM instead of TheoJed?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Nice article about Ernie Banks
Yankees Hire Jim Hendry
Dale Sveum Meets Early Arrivals At Camp Buss

Recent FanShots

Former Cubs Blogger Interviewed on The Score
Cubs vs. Rangers In Las Vegas Tickets On Sale Monday 2/13
Hoyer driving to Spring Training with his dog
Hoyer-Soriano likely a Cub to start 2012, Garza extension talk a possibility
Law's Top 100 prospects
Ranking the Farm Systems
WGN Releases Season Schedule
MLB.com Cubs Top 20 prospect list
A position ranking of the NL central by ESPN.
Draft Pick Currency and the Cubs

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Featured Poll

Poll
How many games will the Cubs win in 2012?

  135 votes | Results

It Is Only...

It Is Only...

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges


Managing Editor

Alyellontoppscard_small Al Yellon

Front Page Contributors

Primary_fc_small Josh Timmers

Marvin_the_martian_small Shawn Domagal-Goldman

Other Contributors

Dsc_0139_small David Sameshima

Toonmike_small Mike Bojanowski