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Daisuke Matsuzaka Posted

The first of many tests for the Cubs off-season has arrived.  Will the Cubs submit a bid?

Or is Hendry too busy wining and dining his 52 managerial candidates?

STAY TUNED!!!

Daisuke Matsuzaka Article

Highly regarded pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka was given permission by the Seibu Lions on Tuesday to pursue a career in the major leagues, according to local media reports.

Matsuzaka is still one year away from becoming a free agent but Seibu is expected to use the posting system in which major league teams present bids for Japanese players with the highest bidder winning negotiating rights, Kyodo News agency reported Tuesday.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Matsuzaka......
will be a NYY.

With the Yankees losing in the first round, George will go after him hard....

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Oct 10, 2006 11:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

do we
get to find out IF the cubs made a bid? i know we won't know the amount, but it would be nice to know if they took a shot.
also, do we get to find out what the winning bid is?

by tomas21 on Oct 10, 2006 11:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Open the Wallet, Jimmy
If the Yankees have learned their lesson, they will actually LAY OFF of Matsuzaka.  But my hunch is that they won't learn their lesson.

by 08Cubs on Oct 10, 2006 11:40 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You mean
the lesson that good pitching beats good hitting in the playoffs?  Or the lesson that teams who don't spend really don't have a chance?  Or any lesson that they've learned from the fine play of Matsui?

Maybe you're refering to Hideki Irabu is my guess.  I think that's far enough in the past the it won't stop King George from opening his wallet here.  The Yankees need good pitching more than they need anything else.  Jarrett Wright starting an elimination game for the Yankees?  They need pitching.  

by pageian on Oct 10, 2006 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You act as though it's Hendry's wallet...
...It's the Trib that needs to open the wallet.

Hendry hardly has carte blanche to just spend whenever he feels like it.

It always goes back to the Trib.

hhhhiftqdaa

by theprognosticator on Oct 10, 2006 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think
every team is going to make a bid.  Why wouldn't they for a talent like this?  It's just that some bids aren't going to be serious when compared to what teams like the NYY, NYM, Cubs, Angels etc... will be willing to pay.  You can bet that the Pirates for example will make a really low-ball bid knowing that they'll never win the bidding process, but in that one in a million chance that they wind up with him because of some technicallity or something.

So yeah, I would guess the Cubs will bid so that's not really a test of management, unless they don't bid then it becomes a test of competence.  The real test will be how much they offer, did they do their homework, is the offer in line with his talent, is it competitive, did they bid too much, too little in a serious bid etc etc.....

Basically, we'll find out a little bit about whether they know what they're doing or no.  That is if we get to see who bid what, which I don't think happens.  So we'll probably never know.

by pageian on Oct 10, 2006 11:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i wonder
if seibu would consider sending him to a team who did not submit the highest bid. i wonder if they would respect his wishes to go to a team like the dodgers, mariners or yankees even if they are not the highest bidder. maybe whatever the cubs bid won't be enough. (not to put any excuses in their head)
an american team wouldn't do that, but the culture there is obviously different, and i don't know enough about it to say.

by tomas21 on Oct 10, 2006 11:51 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The posting system.......
doesn't work that way.
"Some advice: Stop worrying about being a good corporate citizen."-Phil Rodgers to Jim Hendry 10/6/06

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Oct 10, 2006 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreement
Just to clear this up - there is an actual agreement between the NBL and MLB regarding movement of players between the leagues.  The posting system is part of that, and the highest bid must be honored.  However, Seibu still has the option to refuse the highest bid and maintain control of Matsuzaka, and if so, Daisuke-san has no option but to play in Japan next year or sit out.  I'm not sure if he could play in one of the US independent leagues in this case, but he definitely would be forced to wait until 2008 to play MLB (and he would be a free agent at that time, with the same status as any other US free agent).  I don't foresee this happening unless there is some form of collusion between all the MLB clubs to underbid for Daisuke-san's services (and if discovered, there would be hell to pay).  

After the poor pitching performance of the Yankees in the ALDS, I would expect Brian Cashman to put in a huge posting bid, so don't get excited about Daisuke-san playing in Chicago unless he's on a road trip.  I expect a posting bid of $25-30M to be the winner, with a 3 year contract for Daisuke-san of about $10-12M a year.  Remember that even if a club is awarded the negotiating rights, Daisuke-san can still refuse to sign a contract here in the US and stay in Japan next season.  He could then wait until the 2008 season and leverage a higher contract out of a club as a regular free agent.  I don't expect this to happen either, because he desperately wants to come over here and kick the crap out of American hitters.  Nobody realizes how competitive and fired-up Daisuke-san is - the stuff you saw in the WBC is his early-season form; watch videos of Game 1 of the playoffs vs. Softbank and you'll soon realize that this is no Hideki Irabu or Hideo Nomo.  God, I wish the Cubs could get him.

by TMOX on Oct 10, 2006 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a matter of fact
I am watching a video of the playoff game now, which was broadcast on NHK (Japan Broadcasting). It's interesting to see Matsuzaka in action. He doesn't throw very hard - I'm seeing speeds from 125kph -148kph. I think that is around 85mph? Good forkball. Also he doesn't have that slight hesitation coming out of the windup that is common among many Japanese pitchers.

by bloopsingle on Oct 10, 2006 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

148 KPH
Is 92 miles per hour.

If you watch the ESPN footage of the WBC, he's hitting 92-94 consistently on their gun.

by Josh77 on Oct 10, 2006 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you
...I was never good at metric conversion. So that is a pretty good speed he's throwing.

by bloopsingle on Oct 10, 2006 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kmh to Mph
To convert Kilometers Per Hour to Miles Per Hour, multiply the number by 0.62.  148kph converts to 91.76mph, which is nowhere close to Daisuke-san's max velocity (he's hit 97 but generally works between 92 and 94 on his fastball). He gets vicious movement on it, though, and almost always knows where it's going to end up.  Mix in his change and wicked breaking ball (not a gyroball, contrary to urban mythology), and he's going to be the best Japanese pitcher to ever put on a Yankee uniform.  Make that any MLB uniform.  

by TMOX on Oct 10, 2006 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, Hendry will take a shot...
just like he took a shot with Carlos Beltran.  

by BlueBooHoo on Oct 10, 2006 11:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hednry will bid
The upside is to great not to bid at least. Even McDonough could see the benefit to bring in the Asian audiance if he becomes a Cubs.
You're never a loser untill you quit trying - FortuneCookie

by Scott G F on Oct 10, 2006 12:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Correct.
As a marketing guy, he has to know that would get the Cubs a lot of attention.

Not to mention one of the top pitchers in the world.

by Al on Oct 10, 2006 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly
Look at how much revenue Suzuki has generated for the Mariners.  If this guy is as good as everyone seems to think he is he could be worth that much or more to the Cubs.  Excellent marketing opportunity.

by pageian on Oct 10, 2006 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stop yourself
Can we please stop with the idiotic, bullcrap brilliant statements of the obvious...."as a marketing guy, McDonough knows the importance of the Asian market"..."as a marketing guy, McDonough knows the importance of putting a good product on the field and having fresh peanuts for vendors to sell"..."McDonough is a very smart guy who knows what it takes to produce a winnner...he's gone to ALL the Tony Robbins seminars."  

Enough.  

by BlueBooHoo on Oct 10, 2006 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only if you'll stop
posting things that belittle other posters, making bold proclamations without a shred of evidence, and nursing a man-crush for punch and judy Izturis.

by Perkins on Oct 10, 2006 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's an anonymous chat board Francis
Lighten up.  Opinion and prognostication is the engine which makes this thing hum.  If you don't like my opinion on something as harmless and non-important as a professional sports team (we aren't curing cancer here Professor), then ignore me.  

No soup for you.  Next !

by BlueBooHoo on Oct 10, 2006 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No soup for me?
I mean, that's what the Soup Nazi said on TV a few years ago, isn't it? "No soup for you!" And yet, you've taken it and made it so funny...and fresh. I mean, that is just so funny and fresh. Incidentally, if you presented your blathering as opinions, I think many here would be less inclined to loathe you. As it stands, you're kind of like a sideshow.

by Perkins on Oct 10, 2006 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh god,
i absolutly love seinfeld, lol.
Without a WS in 07 or 08--- AC 5 63 100 Wait, theres not enough room on that sign in right feild for triple digits. We Better Win Soon!!!

by LilLPLancer23 on Oct 10, 2006 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

overrated
"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Oct 10, 2006 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

P.S.
Have you SEEN Cesar in his road uni?  Hot.  

by BlueBooHoo on Oct 10, 2006 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not allowed
to wear it in the hospital ward.
Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 10, 2006 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

By Asian market I mean
in Asia not in Chicago per say. Most Asian countries know the Dodgers and Yankees and then then other teams fall behind for the most part. But a clever dude like McDonough promotes the Chicago Cubs to the Asian market, now you have something. Cub game viewing rights being sold from WGN (you listening Fitzsimmons) to the Asian networks for more then the cost to bid and sign him, thus everything else is gravey. Then, say the Cubs reach the post season or God-forbid the World Series. All of the Asian market will be pulling for the Cubs. Everyone will have to wear the Cubbie blue, which by-the-way looks alot like a Panda, Asians love Pandas. Plus Chicago as a whole would benefit. The travel desination of the Asian market to Chicago to see their hero in Wrigley Field.

What's the loss here? New market, new money. The Trib doesn't like to give money away.
This is a no brainer to me. Make the bold move now, see the reward next spring and summer.  

You're never a loser untill you quit trying - FortuneCookie

by Scott G F on Oct 10, 2006 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you knew much about asians,,,
you'd know some "asians" don't necessarily care for the japanese.  Or are you trying to say that the whiz will be able to market games in china, korea and cambodia, as well?  wow! wow! WOW!
GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 10, 2006 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps tho,,,
if the whiz signs that Russian superstar he can capture the white markets of Russia and France or if he gets the Iranian superstar he'll capture the Middle East too!

I know a lot of Koreans here in SoCal (I dated one for 5 years) and they could give a damn about Ichiro or Matsui or any of the Japanese the Dodgers have had.  Their papers focuses on their own, Choi, Kim, Seo, Park, etc.  

That was just an ignorant post.  

GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 10, 2006 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Other Asians
Perhaps the Cubs new President/Marketing Whiz may also exploit the other Asian markets by signing and playing non-Japanese Asian players as well. The Osprey Killer might get some good press back in the Korea that isn't threatening the world with Nukes.  Perhaps we'll find a nice Taiwanese player or even a Vietnamese phenom to boot; the Cubs have a better focus on the Pacific Rim than a lot of clubs, so this is not an unrealistic strategy.

PS Claiming to be an expert on Asia because you used to date a Korean is sort of like saying that you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.  

PPS Anybody calls me Frances, and I'll kill you!

by TMOX on Oct 10, 2006 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's the Japanese market
like in Chicago??  Iirc Japanese mostly live on the coasts...
GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 10, 2006 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

4.35% Asian according to the US Census
of 2000 is all I can find.  
"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Oct 10, 2006 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm
That's larger than I expected.  Still not much tho.
GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 10, 2006 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep
If I were a betting man, I'd say he'll wind up with one of the California teams, the New York teams or Seattle.  I think the Cubs are very remote possibility.  

by BlueBooHoo on Oct 10, 2006 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup
LA or NY can make a lot more money off this guy than the Cubs.
GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 10, 2006 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, wait a minute...
you forget the goofy babble everybody on this board keeps stating...."McDonough is a marketing guy and therefore knows the value of the Asian market"..."as a marketing guy, McDonough knows the value of adding sushi to the menu at the Wrigley Field concessionary stands, thereby drawing Japanese American crowd into Wrigley"..."as a marketing guy, McDonough recognizes it is a 162 game season and that games last 9 innings", etc....

by BlueBooHoo on Oct 10, 2006 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al
You give off the impression that you think we have a good chance to get him.

Or I'm just a bigger dumbass than I thought.

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Oct 10, 2006 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love for the Cubs to get him.
Realistically? I know it's a longshot. But they ought to at least try.

by Al on Oct 10, 2006 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just got the vibe
that you thought it had a good chance at happening.
"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Oct 10, 2006 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seibu
lost the two games that Matsuzaka didn't start to SoftBank, so they're out of the playoffs.  Matsuzaka has thrown his last game in the Japanese Leagues.

It made no sense for Seibu not to post him.  They could either post him this year and get $20-25 million for him, or watch him leave for America after next season and get nothing.

If it were up to me, I'd pretty much put our entire off-season budget into the posting fee.  (Not counting re-signing Aramis)  No one else on the market is going to help us long term like Matsuzaka would.

by Josh77 on Oct 10, 2006 12:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

After re-signing Ramirez,
the Cubs might have $10 million left.

by Maddog on Oct 10, 2006 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you sure?
Woods contract is coming off the books, Maddux is off the books.  Hell, Baker is off the books, so is Neifi.  I can't imagine Aramis is going to make that much.

We also don't know if the Cubs are going to up payroll, lower payroll or keep it the same.  We just don't know how much they are going to have available.  In any case $10 million after signing ARam seems a little low.

Plus, would they count the posting fee towards this years payroll or would the Trib Co. write it off as a one time expense?  If they won the bidding how much would they have tabbed in salary for Matsuzaka?  Too many questions we don't have answers too yet.

by pageian on Oct 10, 2006 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's not likely
correct. i think you are trying to paint the picture as bleak as possible.

the cubs payroll for next year, assuming we keep z and ramirez, is about 75 million.

you are estimating zambrano will make 12 million. this is unlikely. oswalt makes for a useful comparison. after a 2005 season in which oswalt went 20-12 an ERA under 3, a k:bb ratio over 3:1, a whip of 1.2 and led his team to the world series, he went from a salary of 5.9 to 11 million, a 5.1 mil raise (an 86% raise).

zambrano had a very good season, but not comparable to oswalt's 2005 season. a 16-7 record, 2 missed starts, an ERA of 3.41, k:bb ratio of under 2:1, a whip of 1.29. you aer suggesting that after this season, he will get a comparable raise to what osalt got after his spectacular 2005 season--not likely in my estimation.

also, i think its unlikely hendry signs ramirez to a 15 for 4 or 5 contract. i think its more likely he'd get 11 this year, 13 next, 15 in 09 and 16 in 2010.

but even if we use your numbers, which i feel are inflated, the cubs would be at 78 mil. you are suggesting the cubs would go into next year with an 88 mil salary? that doesn't seem likely. i think the cubs salary stands at 72-74 after signing ramirez and z, and a budget of 95-100. that leaves something in the neighborhood of 24-28, a big difference from 10.

that being said, i think there is virtually no chance of the cubs signing matusaka. if it takes 20-30 mil to post him plus another 5-10 for salary, that would eat up the entire budget for the year and then some. and when mcdonough has already publically intimated that a payroll of 100 mil is likely, and the tribune is having public financial distress, we can pretty much dismiss the notion of matusaka wearing cubbie blue.

by tomas21 on Oct 10, 2006 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well put
hhhhiftqdaa

by theprognosticator on Oct 10, 2006 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup,,,,
$95 million minimum.

The naysayers are spinning out of control.

GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 10, 2006 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly...
ONLY $95 million leaving them with, as I said, $10 million to spend.  You should really do some research about this simple stuff before you open your mouth and call someone a name.  

by Maddog on Oct 10, 2006 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just trying to pain the picture as accurately
as possible.  Arbitration is based on similar players.  If Oswalt is considered to be a similar player to Zambrano (he is) then Zambrano will get no less than what Oswalt did his 3rd year of arbitration eligibility, which you state was $11 million.  

If the Cubs sign him to a longterm contract, they could backload it, but I don't imagine Z signing for less than 5/75.  He'll get much more than that if he waits a year to hit the free agent market.

Ramirez is the 2nd best player available on the free agent market.  He's the best 3rd baseman available on the market.  It's possible, though doubtful, that the Cubs get him for cheaper than he'd get on the open market, but this is a guy who stands to make 5/75 at least on the open market.  Again, maybe this deal is backloaded.  I don't know, but I'm taking the average of what he's going to be offered by at least one other team on the open market.  If Ramirez is making less than $13 million next season I'll be very surprised.  

The payroll as it stands right now without the inclusion of ANY auto-renewal contracts, arbitration eligible player (Prior, Ohman, and Zambrano), or the non-active players on the 40-man roster is at $55 million.  Add, let's just say, $22 million onto that for Ramirez and Zambrano--a number that is far lower than they are worth--the payroll is then at $77 million.  Prior will get $3.5 million and Ohman $1 million.  We're up to $81.5 million.  

That $81.5 million DOES NOT include the salaries of the auto-renewal players (all players not eligible for free agency or arbitration on the 25-man roster) and it doesn't include the 15 players that are on the 40-man roster, but not on the 25-man roster (these guys make no less than $50,000).  

We're basically looking at somewhere between $1 and 5 million depending on how many auto-renewal players are on the active roster.  Let's split the difference and add $2.5 million to the $81.5 million.

That's $84 million.  The payroll this season was a tad over $94 million.  McDonough has said the payroll will be in the "vicinity" of what it was this season (means it could go up a little bit or even go down a little bit).  

So, for the interest of being as accurate as possible, let's say the payroll could increase as much as $5 million and decrease that same amount as well.  We're looking at $10 million left to spend +/- $5 million.  

This is an accurate picture, tomas.  I don't need to make stuff up to make the Cubs look bad.  They do that all by themselves.  

This team would have $10 million, plus or minus $5 million left to spend if they re-signed Ramirez AND Zambrano to a combined 2007 total salary of $22 million--$11 million apiece, which, is what you said they'd make.  

I don't like that you said I was trying to paint any kind of picture.  I wouldn't do that.  If I'm going to take to the time to post anything, no matter how little in content, it's going to be as accurate as possible because that's just how I am.  

Now, if the Cubs are to get insurance for Rusch, or trade Dempster for minor leaguers, then you can add $3 or $8 million onto that number above.  Their future player moves WILL most certainly have an affect on the money Hendry has to work with.  But as of RIGHT NOW, assuming the payroll is between $90 and $100 million, they have between $5 and $15 million to spend, respectively.

by Maddog on Oct 10, 2006 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your assumption...
... about $90-$100 million is based on what's happened in the last year or two, and the further assumption that Tribco's financial difficulties will prevent the Cubs from raising that payroll.

However, it does NOT take into account the fact that management there knows how bad the Cubs sucked in 2006, and that they cannot continue in this way to just open the doors and see people stream in. The empty seats in September told them that.

Further, they will also lose TV ad revenue (which mostly goes back to them because they own WGN and a share of CSN), and perhaps corporate sponsorship revenue. That's where the big bux are, as you know.

Only by making BOLD, BIG and yes, EXPENSIVE moves, can they possibly make this team good enough to create enough buzz so that they can market it over the winter.

There's a marketing guy in charge now. He knows this. I know it hasn't happened yet, but McDonough has not been a failure at his job. I expect him to succeed in his new position.

by Al on Oct 10, 2006 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Accounting for Posting Bid
If the Tribune Company decides to submit a posting bid, they could consider it an operational expense that doesn't apply to payroll.  So, we could be looking at a $10-12M hit towards payroll not a $35-42M hit, and there are also ways to amortize the posting bid so that it's not one massive hit to next season's payroll.  Don't expect to see Daisuke-san wearing a Cubbie uniform next year, but if ownership wants him badly enough, we could get him without killing the entire 2007 season in the process.

by TMOX on Oct 10, 2006 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

95-100
is probably likely, at least based on what mcdonough has been asked/answered.
maybe the trib will decide to open up the checkbook for some of these moves you describe, but that would represent a pretty big change from their usual behavior. and with the trib situation kinda rocky right now, i don't know how likely that is.

by tomas21 on Oct 10, 2006 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's possible, Al,
but it's not likely.  If the Tribune has shown us anything over the years, it's that they're very consistent.  McDonough has said the payroll will be in the "vicinity" of what it's been.  

To be honest, and consistent myself, I pay almost no attention to people who runs sports franchises or those who play for them because their statements usually have no value whatsoever.  But, I think the Tribune has shown itself to be a team that isn't going to overspend so what McDonough says is merely "evidence" to provide in discussion.  

I don't believe for a second that the Tribune would announce if they were raising payroll or that they'll give us any indication at all what it's going to be.  So until I see that "vicinity" broken, I'm going to believe that's where the payroll will be.  

I might ultimately be wrong.  

by Maddog on Oct 10, 2006 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

maddog
i believe your figure of 55 million includes 11 million for ramirez, so it appears you are double-counting him, unless i'm missing something.

if that's the case, that would leave something closer to what i suggested. if i am missing something, i apologize for coming across as insulting. when you said the cubs would have 10 mil in budget to spend, based on my understanding of the numbers, that is painting things as bleak as possible. sounds as though that was not your intention, so its either a numbers mistake by you or by me.

i hope that i'm not surprised to see dempster in another uniform being paid a slary by another team next year. that would help things as well.

by tomas21 on Oct 10, 2006 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're absolutely RIGHT!
My mistake.  

I still think both Z and Ramirez get more than you think they're going to get.  Change that $84 million figure down to $79-80 million...that's what I think it will be after arbitration AND re-signing Ramirez.  

You were right the first time, though.  

by Maddog on Oct 10, 2006 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think
z comes in no more than 11 this year, and z no more than 13. it'll be intersting to see, though.

it'll be really interesting to see what happens to the roster and hendry's job if ramirez walks. imo, hendry should be fired immediately if he walks, and the retooling should begin. i think it will be next to impossible to build a contender next year without significantly increasing the budget, and impossible to build a contender if ramirez walks regardless of budget.

they could have semi-retooled if hendry would have traded pierre and ramirez ant mid-season and possibly competed this year, depending on who they received in return and what free agent moves they made. too bad.

by tomas21 on Oct 11, 2006 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aramis Ramirez
If the market price for his services goes north of four years and $40 million dollars, then I swallow real hard and take a pass if I am Jim Hendry.  And it has nothing to do with me becoming member of the Payroll Police morons who patrol this board.  Rather it has everything to do with signing a known dog to a long-term very lucrative contract.  

by BlueBooHoo on Oct 10, 2006 2:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Only an ass
would stop the bidding for ARam at $10M per year. Hell, he's guaranteed more than $11M.

Obviously you know nothing about business in spite of your assertions. You've already proven that the discussion of baseball is beyond your means. And your lack of interpersonal skills are well documented.

Since you seem to have an abundance of time to try and elevate your lack of self esteem, I can only assume that makes your life as pathetic as you claim everyone else's is.

Conclusion: You are irrelevant as are your biased opinions.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 10, 2006 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I'm an ass
but at least my team won't have a dog at 3rd base preoccupied with counting his money as opposed to running out ground balls and actually moving more than one millimeter on defense.  

by BlueBooHoo on Oct 10, 2006 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now that you've taken the guesswork out of it
please note that ARam can write his own ticket because baseball people actually love his numbers. On the other hand, Izturis who may never start  another baseball game, is being measured for a wheelchair and applying for food stamps.
Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 10, 2006 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what an idiot
I would be willing to bet you that Ramirez's supposed "dogging" hasn't cost the Cubs a single game in the past couple years. It is an overrated criticism, and is completely dwarfed by his incredibly productive numbers, and the fact that he has been one of the top third basemen in all baseball over the past couple years.

That said, I do agree the Cubs should dump him, but not for your reasoning, as you speak out of your ass like a blithering idiot at a constant rate, but only  because I think the Cubs can't contend in the near future, and they need to dump salary by letting expensive free agents like Ramirez go and trading their expensive veterans from Barrett to Eyre/Howry, and concentrate on rebuilding (assuming they will never spend like they are capable). Ramirez has no place on a team that is going no where, but if the Cubs actually had any hope to contend, it would be nothing short of moronic to let him go if he wanted more than 10 million dollars per year. If we were competing, he is worth 15 mil a year if not more.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Oct 10, 2006 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Follow the money
There are two sets of payroll figures that are being thrown around. One is the number that most people refer to and is published on ESPN among other sites.

The other is the number that MacPhail used and is presumably the same one that McDonough talks about. That number includes payroll burden and includes things like employee's contribution to social security and medicare and additional add on costs.

The number used by ESPN is about $94M and the number the Cubs use is about $8M more.

So when we discuss how much we can expect to have available, it's important to factor in the $8M in making things balance.

That being said, I'd estimate that it might take a $30M bid to get Matsuzaka. However, if we amortize the bid over 5 years that's only $6M per year. Add in the annual salary and that's what he'd cost us. Remember that he's not a free agent and is virtually assured to get a lower salary than he could negotiate as a free agent. So, the Cubs might be able to get him for $6M per year for 5 years based adjusted for inflation.

Also recall that the past two years the Cubs have not spent money at All Star break as they promised if in the hunt. Additionally, add in the increased revenue that has been flowing into the coffers.

In summary, the Cubs CAN make a strong case IF they wish. The question is....Will they?

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 10, 2006 2:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

not sure
if the cubs would look at the bid as being amortized over 5 years, especially considering their current financial situation.

by tomas21 on Oct 10, 2006 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What they'll do
is anybodys guess. It is what a business should do. And, while the stock price of the Trib is down, their operating profits are still holding up and the Cub revenue should be at an all time high.
Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 10, 2006 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You watch a lot of CNBC in between
your shifts at the manure factory, right?  

by BlueBooHoo on Oct 10, 2006 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only manure I see
is coming out of your mouth.
Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 10, 2006 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

can I have
one good reason on why you still come here and spout off your psychobabble?

You have to realize that you are the quintessential running joke of BCB.

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Oct 10, 2006 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...
A priest, a rabbi, and Mike63 walk into a bar...

by Perkins on Oct 10, 2006 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

however
the priest and rabbi duck, Mike still walks into it, having no effect at all except for a swollen forehead he continues in for his dinner date with Cesar Izturis.
"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Oct 10, 2006 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

roflmfao
You're definitely on a roll today.

by Perkins on Oct 10, 2006 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to Rotowire
The Cubs are one of at least seven teams expected to bid on Matsuzaka.

Now we may only have a 1 in 7 chance of getting the guy, but we are now at least being mentioned as a contender.

Additionally, Matsuzaka is being represented by Scott Boras.  This is probably good news for us, as the Cubs have always had a good relationship with Boras whereas at least two teams on that list, the Rangers and the Dodgers, have not.

Of course, it also means that Matsuzaka won't come cheap.

by Josh77 on Oct 10, 2006 3:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll be shocked
if the Rangers get him.  Well, the same goes for us.  The Red Sox are going to make a big offer in hopes of stopping the Yankees from getting him.

I imagine one will get Zito if the other gets Matsuzaka.

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Oct 10, 2006 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since it's a blind bid
it really has nothing to do with Boras. He'll only enter the picture after the winning team is selected.
Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 10, 2006 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think
he was referring to the post-bid contract, not the bid. but even boras might have trouble negotiating from the no-leverage psoition the matusaka will be in.

by tomas21 on Oct 10, 2006 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
Except that teams are going to be meeting with Boras before the bids, and he is very likely to be telling different teams different things and that may affect bids.

by Josh77 on Oct 10, 2006 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do agents
really do those things? I'm shocked.
Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 10, 2006 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leverage
Actually, Daisuke-san does have leverage.  He still has the option of returning to Japan to finish his final season of eligibility and then come to the US as a regular free agent prior to the 2008 season.  Just because a team is awarded negotiating rights doesn't mean a player has to accept their offer.  That's another reason why you should expect a 3-Year, $30-36M contract to be his final offer from, most likely, the Yankees.

by TMOX on Oct 10, 2006 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

this is good
cuz the cubs wont get him but it will distract teams enough that the cubs can go straight for zito...but they have to go straight at him and give him enough money we cant get furcald agian

by Bleacherbum369 on Oct 10, 2006 8:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If either the Yankees or Red Sox get Matsuzaka
the other one will get Zito.  They'd have to in order to stay up to par pitching wise.
"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Oct 10, 2006 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually...
I think Zito is more likely to be a Met next year... I've heard they will go hard after him
Give Me Girardi or give me DEATH!!!!

by KChiCubs on Oct 10, 2006 11:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Zito and Karma
Zito will not go for the money. He's going to go where he thinks he'll be needed. The wild card in all of this is Mark Prior. Zito and Prior are friends enough that he might influence Zito's choice.
     This will also depend on whom the Cubs hire as manager.

Prior is the wild card in all of this. The question  is, does Prior want to stick around for the Cubs or be cut loose and try to rebuild his career somewhere else. Or does he want to reward Chicago for sticking with him and try to get Zito to help the Cubs to the WS? Zambrano, Zito, Prior (healthy), Hill, Marmol(Mateo, Marshall) might result in some wins in my estimation.(sarcasm)

Zito has got to see what happened to other pitchers that went to the New York meat grinder. Pitchers that took the money ended up flat on their face. Zito is very big into what feels right and not what looks right on a paycheck. He's a soulful dude from laid back California. So was Dusty, which is not what Chicago needed in the manager role with the personnel in place. But as a pitcher, it just might work better. He'll be good for Prior and the entire staff.

Then sign Soranano for the big bat. Then the cubs will contend.  

You're never a loser untill you quit trying - FortuneCookie

by Scott G F on Oct 11, 2006 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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