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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

Pine tar, tanning and shaving...

I just finished up reading a pretty surprising article on CNNSI, and I found it interesting enough to share it with you guys. According to a Major League bullpen coach, not only was it really pine tar that Rogers was using, but his success in the innings that followed him removing the substance from his hand was due to suntan lotion or shaving cream or a combination of both. Again, according to this same coach, the reason La Russa dropped the issue after the game is that "everybody" uses it, and his pitching staff probably got mad at him for bringing the whole deal up in the first place because they themselves do it and feared that umpires would be looking at them the rest of the series....thus not allowing them to use any of the substances, and indulge in that little cheating that apparently most major league pitchers do. Again I point out that the guy basically says that EVERYBODY does it, although he only stated that it helps grip a baseball and gave no indication as to what effect it would have on a towel (so our team is clean for now). I'm a bit skeptical of the whole thing, I'll let you read the article and give me your opinions. Here's the link, warning it's a bad read incredibly redundant....guy takes two pages to say the same sh#t over and over..EnJoY

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.rogers/index.html

Big NasS

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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i dont understand...
...how, if this is a policy that is well-known throughout baseball, why have i not heard of it in my previous years of watching, enjoying, and idolizing my favorite players in baseball??  it seems to be a bit of a stretch that (1) ive NEVER NOTICED IT IN ANY BASEBALL GAME IVE EVER WATCHED prior to last nights world series game nor have i (2) EVER HEARD OF IT prior to last nights game.

by dtpollitt on Oct 23, 2006 6:42 PM CDT reply actions  

It is kinda weird to say the least...
I mean I've heard of it being done some times (rarely), just like spit and all the other little tricks we hear about....but to this extent? And everybody knows about it but we have no clue whatsoever... Just like you, I'm confused...
Let's see if other people are more aware of it than you and me.

Big NasS

by Chitown Mojo on Oct 23, 2006 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not like it never comes up...
Particular St Louis pitchers in recent years have been asked to change caps, etc because of excessive dirt/marks, or because of suspicious substances on the bill.

While I don't know if I believe that most pitchers use it (claim was 60-70%), it really wouldn't surprise me. The pitcher's out there with no better way to keep his hands warm than to blow on them, so particularly in cold weather, I expect they may be using something to help their grip. As for those who use it to alter the ball's movement, that's a little different.

Dusty Baker pretty much confirmed the claim himself, saying he doesn't know if it's that many guys, but that yeah, a lot of pitchers do it (suggesting he's had guys on his staffs do it).

And as for you never seeing any of your favorite players do it, well, how often does the camera do a close sweep of their hat, hand, inner thigh, inside of the glove, etc? The only time anyone looks is if the other team complains about something, and if this really is widespread, I wouldn't expect there to be many complaints.

I wasn't watching the game, so I don't know who brought it up, but I heard it was LaRussa, and some people have suggested he did it to try to get into the head of Rogers, who has been unstoppable this post-season. He's a wily manager, so I wouldn't put it past him, even if his own pitchers are doing the same thing.

by HanOfTheBluegrass on Oct 23, 2006 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

OH!
So Thats how Josh Beckett did that in 2003. j/k of course.
Glenallen Hill hit that ball 600 feet.

by BigDumbFace on Oct 23, 2006 6:50 PM CDT reply actions  

That article
could have been written in 27 words.
MTV used to be music television. ESPN used to be a sports network.

by akcubfan on Oct 23, 2006 6:53 PM CDT reply actions  

I had the same sense
the guy that was being quoted repeated himself over and over.  The use of pine tar by pitchers is well known and documented.  Shaving cream?  Not surea bout that.

I am most dubious about suntan lotion.  My experience is that suntan lotion makes your skin slippery, which is just the opposite of what you want.

I wonder why this guy isn't willing to have his name attached to the comments.

But then the earlier quotes by Rick Sutcliffe indicating that he had whispers about pitchers using pine tar but never actually seen it himself struck me as equally laughable.

by jazzman56 on Oct 23, 2006 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's always whispers...
...something in the dark. Shapeless, formless. Ugly. But it's there. You can feel it crawling up your skin. You can feel it breathing down your neck.

Players hanging out in poorly lit corner of the clubhouse, smoking, talking, whispering. You can't make out much and what you do you don't understand. Which one? Which one works? Black Betty? Hawaii five-oh? Best Man? Empty cans of shaving cream hit the floor and roll around and are causally snatched up. You try to make as though you didn't turn around. You twist your neck, hey man just, stretching it out you know. Ah god, my neck is tight.

Doesn't work.  

One of them steps out.

You see something you want to talk about, bud?

No. Nothing. You turn away. You go back to your footsoak and that overcooked steak and Sergio on 18.

Then a game. Jax throws a two-hitter. Fourteen strikeouts. No walks. Jax can't pitch like this, he's never pitched like this. Jax walks off grinning, shaking his head. Nothing is really said beyond the usual congratulations, the whistles, the goddamns, but then a look from one to another, a nod. The curl of a smile. You go to shake Jax's pitching hand but he won't give it. He gives you the glove hand instead. Drinks are on me, he says.

Three nights later more are in the corner. The whispers are Gregorian. The smell something sweet and musky. You get bold. You walk directly to the corner.

No, they tell you. Go back to your cards. Go back to the porno on the house TV. Stay out of the corner Rick. Ain't no chairs left at this table.

You do. You sit. You burn with envy. You desperately hold onto every darting wisp, every flick of the tongue, to the point you go almost numb, but still, you know nothing.

The meeting ends. The corner is empty. Gordon puts his hand on your shoulder.  

Soon he says, his face half in shadow. Soon, his teeth glinting like the flash of a knife.

Soon.  

Four days later Agio is frisked on the mound against the Jays. It's splashed on the front pages in blood. 10 games. That night nobody's in the corner but you still hear whispering. Agio goes AWOL, awash in shame he says. Two weeks later they find him in the East River with his hands cut off and SPF 25 rammed up his ass.

After that Gordon doesn't talk to you, doesn't look at you, and Bendino the clubhouse attendant puts a Budweiser neon in the corner. The pitching goes to shit and the team loses eight of nine.

But still, you saw nothing, heard nothing. Whispers maybe, but that's all, you say to Dan Patrick right after Don Zimmer hocked phlegm for answers during his 10 minute Q & A. You laugh to this day that anyone considers you an expert on this stuff. You're grateful you were never in the pocket. In the wedding party. In the corner. After the interview you pass a bald-headed man  in alligator boots with his left hand hidden in the pocket of his crow-black leather jacket. He looks over, lets his tongue creep out of his mouth like a snake and winks with his right eye.

You shudder, wink with your left and keep going, quickly, gulping the air when you hit the street, gulping as though you've been submerged, gulping as though you've only just escaped.  

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Oct 23, 2006 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ummmm
what the hell did I just read?  Are you testing the waters before attempting an occupational shift into the realm of suspense?  Go smoke anothe reefer bro.  That passage rambled more than Charles Manson in a courtroom.
So we're stuck in a slump, it's only been a century...

by Old Style Heavy on Oct 23, 2006 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Precisely!
I was channeling Rick Sutcliffe.
PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Oct 24, 2006 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Strike that...
...Rick Sutcliffe and the shadowy cloak-and-dagger world of baseball and its "whispers."

It's tongue-in-cheek for those that need to be spoonfed.

Myself, I prefer to be forkfed.

In the eye.

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Oct 24, 2006 2:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

This goes on
all the way to high school.  I was a catcher and our pitchers in March and April when its cold in northern Indiana would use tabacco juice.  This is nothing new and has been going on since the beggining on baseball itself.  Anybody think differently is naive about what goes on inside the lines.  No big deal, the reason La Russa is trying to down play it is because his own pitchers are doing it although maybe not so noticable.
First Boston, then the White Sox, its now the Cubs turn.

by indytaz on Oct 24, 2006 8:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Turnabout
I think that if LaRussa had the temerity to go to the unps about Rogers, maybe Leyland ought tho have Molina's bat examined.
"I lof to hit de home ron."

by Tekboy on Oct 24, 2006 3:45 PM CDT reply actions  

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