Ramirez opts out of contract

by VS on Oct 30, 2006 12:48 PM CST Comment 103 comments

According to Bruce Levine on ESPN 1000, Ramirez has opted out of his contract and filed for free agency.

I need some filler, so here is a quote by Dusty Baker to put a smile on your face.

Cubs manager Dusty Baker has some advice for young players who are encouraged by coaches and parents to wait out pitches and try to draw a walk: Swing away.

''It's like when I see kids in Little League, the small kid, and they make them go up there and try to get a walk,'' Baker said. ''It's not any fun. It's called hitting; it's not called walking. Have you ever seen like a Top 10 walking? The name of the game is to hit.''

''Walks help, but you aren't going to walk across the plate,'' Baker said. ''You've got to hit across the plate. Who has been champions quite a bit the last seven, eight years?''

Told the New York Yankees, Baker used them to prove his point.
''Now, have you ever heard the Yankees talk about on-base percentage and walks?'' he said.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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This.....

Was to be expected...he was going to opt out no matter what. Its up to Hendry now to sign him before he can negotiate with other teams.

"Some advice: Stop worrying about being a good corporate citizen."-Phil Rodgers to Jim Hendry 10/6/06

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Oct 30, 2006 12:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sorry Al,

SHIT!

by fuzzycubfan on Oct 30, 2006 12:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not surprised....

this move gives ARam even more leverage when talking with the Cubs. If Hendry is scared, he may end up bidding against himself. IMHO, it is 50/50 whether he comes back. I think his agent is probably in his ear telling him not to sign until he hits the open period. If I were him, I would not sign until I have heard the other offers.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Oct 30, 2006 12:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Man, you guys ...

... are easily moved to panic.

This is a procedural move, nothing more. Since Ramirez had the option to file, he filed. NO ONE can sign with another team till November 12 -- that's almost two weeks from now. It doesn't give any leverage that he didn't already have built into the contract in the first place.

Until then the Cubs have exclusive negotiating rights. If you have any proof of your claim about what his agent is doing or not doing, I'd love to hear.

by Al on Oct 30, 2006 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you serious.....

it gives him leverage in the sense that Hendry knows that he will test the FA market. What about this is so difficult to understand? In regards to your panic comment, I find that laughable. What about my comments or that of the other posters screamed panic?

You are something else Al! I really like the "new" you.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Oct 30, 2006 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Uncalled for

No need to get personal, it's just baseball, after all.

"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic." Crash Davis

by cubbiejulie on Oct 30, 2006 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How...

is it uncalled for? I don't believe I was making it personal.

I was being honest when I said I like the "new" Al. I like the discussions.....

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Oct 30, 2006 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hendry knew

he was going to test the FA market in mid-July. If he didn't he's an idiot because everyone on this board knew that he was going to opt for free agency.

I don't believe it gives him any more than what he had then. It's a procedural move. Ramirez is just protecting himself if it doesn't work out with the Cubs, but this was completely knowable.

by NO100 on Oct 30, 2006 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right

This has been a fait accompli for some time now. Why wouldn't Ramirez test the market? He just put up arguably his best season ever. The Cubs gambled that after his slow start that he would have a subpar year. They lost.

Now they get to stand in line and bid for his service along with everyone else.

This is why the Pirates dealt A-Ram to begin with...they knew they could never afford him.

by jazzman56 on Oct 30, 2006 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

has anyone else...

looked at the list of Free Agent 3B's? It's a complete disaster this offseason.

Aramis
Huff
Pedro Feliz
Mark Derosa

That's it.

by ontheuptick on Oct 30, 2006 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

And according to the Trib

Hendry is setting his sights on DeRosa. Why?!?!?

Part of my issue with Hendry is that he always seems to want to lock up the utility and bullpen guys before going hard after the starters.

UGH.

"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic." Crash Davis

by cubbiejulie on Oct 30, 2006 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think...

they'd just be going after DeRosa as our 1st guy off the bench. In that role, he'd be a good get.

by ontheuptick on Oct 30, 2006 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's exactly what...

... DeRosa is. A utility guy. Why not improve your bench when you have the chance?

DeRosa's a good player. Lots of teams will want him. Would you rather wait and not sign him and then be stuck with Ronny Cedeno as your backup IF?

by Al on Oct 30, 2006 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes sir, I didn't even read that the

Tribune stated Hendry is after DeRosa.....and I changed my own personal wish list to acquiring DeRosa.....lol.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just hate hearing

about how Hendry wants this back up guy or that bull pen guy, when all the FAs who could actually make a huge impact on the team are still out there. It probably comes from last year, when I saw him make all those second/third tier FA signings while waiting for the big one that never came.

See? I'm totally traumatized.

"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic." Crash Davis

by cubbiejulie on Oct 30, 2006 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OK

Who are the huge impact FAs out there that the Cubs would have a realistic chance to sign?

by jazzman56 on Oct 30, 2006 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure

we have a realistic chance to sign any of them, but I'd rather hear that Hendry is going hard after Soriano or that he's putting together a deal for Wells, or ready to pony up big bucks for Schmidt than that one of his main targets is DeRosa.

At least give me something to hold onto.

"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic." Crash Davis

by cubbiejulie on Oct 30, 2006 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm still trying

to figure out who they are.

Zito? The competition will be fierce and you would hate him in Wringley Field anyway. He is a fly ball pitcher and too many of those would wind up in the bleachers.

Schmidt? He showed signs in 2006 that he is not the pitcher he once was. Heck, even the D'Backs beat him last year, and they hadn't done that since 2001.

Soriano? Again, at least a half dozen teams have targeted him, and if the Phillies dump Burrell, they will have money to spend. His price tag will be very high.

Who else is there that would have a HUGE impact?

by jazzman56 on Oct 30, 2006 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Story

I read this morning was that Piniella told Hendry that this top priorities were the rotation, the bench and another bat in the middle of the line-up.

They have targeted DeRosa to help strengthen the bench and he would be a good acquisiton for that. He hit 40 doubles last year and an .813 OPS.

BTW, speaking of the Rangers, it is interesting that, along with the Padres and A's, they are planning on interviewing Trey Hillman, manager of the Japanese champion Nippon Ham Fighters.

Other news out of SD is that the Pads will also interview Jose Oquendo of the Cardinals, and that one of the teams interested in CF Dave Roberts is the Cubs (backup plan if they can't re-sign Pierre).

by jazzman56 on Oct 30, 2006 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I read that too on Pro Sports Daily

today.

Dave Roberts should be option A. with Kenny Lofton option B. and Juan Pierre option....the Chicago White Sox.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd go along with this, too...

... if they can't trade for Vernon Wells. If they do this, they MUST then go after Alfonso Soriano to play 2B. He'll be a butcher in the field, but we can live with that for the HR he'll give.

by Al on Oct 30, 2006 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mini Sarge..

I'd love to see him back at Wrigley

by wicubfan on Oct 30, 2006 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lemmings

Trib article in no way says the Cubs are targeting Derosa or that he was even mentioned by anyone associated with the Cubs.

Paul Sullivan threw a bone out there for some starved Cubs fans to chew on. The only quote is about Hendry saying Piniella has different ideas on how to build a bench and then Sullivan says one of those guys could be Derosa who he probably pulled out of a hat.

by Double Switch Dusty on Oct 30, 2006 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

DeRossa

is further proof of the Cub disease. DeRossa's going to cost a lot more than Theriot, has a ceiling which is lower than that of Theriot, and is going to result in Theriot languishing in the minors. And its at least part of a first rate free agent salary now pissed away.

by frustratedfan on Oct 30, 2006 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody from..

the Cubs ever mentioned DeRossa as a player they had in sight. The WRITER is just naming someone the Cubs MIGHT be interested in.

by Macy on Oct 30, 2006 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know......solving last year's problem's

again.....

2004 offseason - CUBS needed lead off hitter (preferably an OF)another power-hitter and bullpen help.....signed Greg Maddux and Jeromy Burnitz.

2005 offseason - Needed to address power in the OF, starting rotation.....signed Bobby Howry, Scott Eyre, Jacque Jones and traded for Juan Pierre...

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm.

... I could have sworn that getting a leadoff hitter and improving the bullpen were also problems that needed to be addressed.

Yes, Hendry failed at getting a power bat and more starting pitching, and we know why the latter happened. Too many eggs in the Wood/Prior basket. That won't happen again -- Wood's coming back as a reliever, if at all, and it's already been stated that Prior will likely NOT be ready for spring training.

by Al on Oct 30, 2006 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No....that's the point...

They were problems that needed to be addressed, and Hendry did a great job, imho, of addressing those needs--just a year too late. Pierre, Howry and Eyre were all three of the best guys available at their position, and if Hendry didn't come up short with Furcal, people may have a different opinion of him.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

n/t

by Al on Oct 30, 2006 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would.....

disagree that Hendry did a "great job" in addressing them. By losing out on Furcal, he had to sacrifice three young arms to get Pierre, who was in a walk year.

Yes, he filled the position with a body. Unfortunately, he gave up way more than he needed to get it done.....

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Oct 30, 2006 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Applause!

I just always feel like he's a day late on everything. Which is why I don't like it that the first name we hear this off-season is DeRosa.

"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic." Crash Davis

by cubbiejulie on Oct 30, 2006 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like DeRosa a lot....

but more as a complimentary role or SS. Not as starting 3B. It isn't completely out of the question to look into a trade for Mike Lowell of Boston.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Haha..

The new Neifi has already been found! Let's just hope Piniella has no man love for him..

by wicubfan on Oct 30, 2006 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nomar

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Oct 30, 2006 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's something I posted on PT/Phish

this AM...regarding the possibility of Aramis signing elsewhere.

Perhaps the CUBS could talk to the KC Royals about Mark Teahen...he had a great season last year before missing the final month due to injury...the Royals have 3B superstar Alex Gordon approaching the big leagues, which may make Teahen expendible...well, not "expendible", but the Royals would look into exploring a trade if there was a really good offer

...I would LOVE Teahen at 3B...

Teahen 2006-

*.290/.357/.517,
*.287 EqA, 5.2 WARP-1 (on the Royals)
*18 HR
*69 RBI
*70 runs
*10 SB
*21 2b
*7 3B

...all in only 393 AB's.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't mind seeing that happen

Some others think Rammy is coming back to Chicago, I am not one of those. I see him in LA, one of the two teams will offer more. Rammy is gone, that is MY story and sticking to it.

Throw out your Gold Teeth and see how they Roll

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Oct 30, 2006 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

in my honest opinion....

I would like him gone....free up a lot of money to address the starting pitching.....and trade for/extend Vernon Wells........

that's if and only if the CUBS could trade for say a Joe Crede, Mike Lowell or Mark Teahen. I do not feel comfortable with say Scott Moore or Aubrey Huff at 3B.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Teahen and Gordon

Kansas City seemed dead set on Gordon being the 3B of its future, but Teahen has shown so much promise. Seems like they'd easily be able to move the guy somewhere else. They also have Shealy at 1B, who's a lot older and will fetch less in a trade bc of his age and lack of experience since Colorado just let him rot in AAA bc they had Helton.

We could get Teahen, it would take a shitload of young pitching along with Pie, but it would be done. If it can be done without giving up Hill, Veal, or Gallagher, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Oct 30, 2006 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about a

"sh!tload" of young pitching, but it would take a couple top tier prospects. I say Hendry starts by offering them Angel Guzman, Carlos Marmol and say Ryan Harvey........

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One more thing about Teahen

Keep in mind, all of his offensive stats. came as a member of the Royals.....as you all know. He had to hit against the Tigers, White Sox and Twins pitchers all season....and still put up those numbers......just think what he would do against Pittsburgh, Milwaukee and Cincinnati!

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Guzman isn't a top tier prospect

nowadays.

Harvey has shit numbers, losing him wouldn't bother me. They'd much rather have Pie than Harvey though, so I'm not going to hold my breath on not giving them Pie unless he has already been dealt (and don't say for Vernon Wells bc I don't see that happening).

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Oct 30, 2006 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No kidding....

Anyone with half of a brain would take Pie over Harvey. Didn't you notice how I said "start with offering".......

And as recent as mid-season 2006, Baseball America had Angel Guzman in the top 60 prospects list....making him still one of the CUBS top tier prospects.....despite the injuries.

I include Ryan Harvey in almost all of my hypothetical deals. He is never going to play at Wrigley and the CUBS should try and get a little value for him before it's too late.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Great Idea!

Being a Royal's fan (that wasn't easy this past year) But there's hope. This is a great idea.

The Royals 3rd baseman would be a great fit with lots of future. And Gordon is nearly ready to step up for them

Clay

by Clay on Oct 31, 2006 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Filler

You could have explained why LaRussa's a poor manager. ;)

GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 30, 2006 12:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

His insane handling of the pen, his

love affair with the bunt, etc. Christ, it would need a diary to itself.

by VS on Oct 30, 2006 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so obstinate

perhaps you have no idea wtf you're talking about???? lol

GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 30, 2006 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LaRussa

has won 11 Division titles (including 6 out of the last 11 years with the Cardinals), 4 pennants, two World Series titles (one of only two men in baseball history to win in both Leagues) and four Manager Of The Year awards.

Yep. He's a poor manager all right.

by jazzman56 on Oct 30, 2006 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Reply

Yep. He's a poor manager all right.

Glad you agree.

by VS on Oct 30, 2006 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i think

he doesn't always make the decisions in-game that give his team the best chance of winning. however, he probably has his team's better prepared and more fundamentally sound than most manager's in baseball. that and the fact that he's managed some team's with quite a bit of talent have helped him have such success.

"I love baseball. You know it doesn't have to mean anything, it's just beautiful to watch." - Woody Allen in Zelig (1983)

by tomas21 on Oct 31, 2006 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LaRussa is a great Manager

His teams have won the division 11 out of the 28 years he's been manageing. He's had a job sinc 1979.

We can argue about whether he's the best manager or in the top 5, but to say he's not a good manager is silly.

by NO100 on Oct 31, 2006 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If you say so

by VS on Oct 30, 2006 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is strategic

There is no reason for any player eligible for FA NOT to file prior to beginning negotiations. It puts the player in a position of strength when bargaining.

It's like when I was a PD, I would get a horrible case, my guy was caught red-handed or confessed or whatever. I always immediately set the case for trial. Did I have any intention of going to trial? Usually not. But why on earth would I let the prosecution know that I was going to plead guilty? Nothing to gain from them knowing that. But when some wet-behind-the-ears baby prosecutor thought I was going take the case to a jury trial, a trial that he/she might LOSE and be really embarrassed by, I got much better plea deals.

The point of that long, rambling story was don't panic. . . .yet.

"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic." Crash Davis

by cubbiejulie on Oct 30, 2006 12:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

EXACTLY!

n/t

by Al on Oct 30, 2006 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Al,

Is this not exactly what I said.....

I know you think I am always negative, but come on man.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Oct 30, 2006 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

It is just what you said. I didn't see your comment up above. Sorry.

"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic." Crash Davis

by cubbiejulie on Oct 30, 2006 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ramirez

Ramirez will be back, because of no other reason than Jim Hendry is backed into a corner. Expect Ramirez to cash in on a shiny new $75 million deal from the Cubs. Hope he actually runs out ground balls for that kind of dough.

by BlueMike on Oct 30, 2006 1:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Are you kidding?

He's getting his money! Time to relax and take it easy...he's going to walk to first base.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do players think like that?

If I just got paid big money, I would want to show everyone that I'm the best and that I'm definitely worth the money they paid for.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Oct 30, 2006 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's usually what happens...

and then they do terrible.

"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" -Homer J. Simpson

by Whitebacon on Oct 30, 2006 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He better walk to first base...

and to 2nd and 3rd for that matter because we can't afford anymore of his B.S. pulled muscles. Maybe we can get a medical waiver that allows someone like Neifi to push Aramis around the bases in a wheelbarrell loaded with cash?

by DudeVf1 on Oct 31, 2006 1:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ka-ching

Report out of Washington DC indicating that Alfonso Soriano will seek $17-18 million per season for five years.

Aramis Ramirez and his agent just grinned a little wider.

by BlueMike on Oct 30, 2006 3:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He filed

but I can't see any reason why Hendry can't get him signed. The Cubs usually pay their star players rather than pay FA's don't they? With payroll going up I can't see Hendry having a problem fitting Ramirez into the budget. And I can't see ARam leaving for just a little bit more money unless he's not comfortable in Chicago, which doesn't seem to be the case.

When it's said and done I expect he'll be back in Chicago, hopefully. The only two questions are if he or his agent is dead set on testing the market to find the highest bid, and if Lou even wants him on the team. If Lou wants to set the "piss and vinegar" tone right away he may want it to seem like he wanted the teams biggest loafer out of here. I think Lou recognizes a good bat when he sees it though and with the mandate to win I doubt he wants Ramirez gone.

by pageian on Oct 30, 2006 4:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The Cubs and the Angels

You watch. The Angels are going to wind up the primary antagonists to the offseason plans for the Cubs. They have tons of money at their disposal and want to upgrade at 3rd base and in the outfield as they address an anemic offense. Aramis Ramirez is high on their list. So too is Alfonso Soriano and Andruw Jones. The "Angel effect" is going to add millions to the contracts of Ramirez and Soriano that goes above and beyond the heated market condition for top players this winter.

by BlueMike on Oct 30, 2006 4:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Aramis

According to the morning folks on XM (including Orestes Destrade and Buck Martinez), the Phillies are also looking for a bat and could add themselves to the list of Aramis' suitors. Add to that the probability that both LA teams are going to go after Ramirez. Aramis' asking price is likely to be about $15M a season. He likely will want a six year contract.

I will gladly be the first person to wish Aramis good luck elsewhere if it is going to take $75/5 or $90/6 to get Aramis signed. I know people here want an deal for Aramis at any cost, I find this ludicrous. There needs to be a limit to where the Cubs go with Aramis and, IMO, it should be somewhere on the order of 4 years and $13-14M a season. Beyond that the Cubs need to cut their losses.

Aramis is a top notch third baseman, but he is not amonst the top players in the sport. He has not shown the ability to perform over an entire season and his lack of hustle will always inhibit his potential. I hope Aramis is back but right but I think some people are overvaluing him.

DmL

by dmlichte on Oct 30, 2006 5:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

A. I don't buy into Jim Hendry's apparent game plan of fixing the Cubs on the fly -- this organization is broken, and like it or not the odds of being a contender in 2007 are very long.

B. Aramis Ramirez is a paper tiger who is worth less than his stats indicate. He also happens to play like a dog.

It's going to take $75 million plus to re-sign Ramirez. I have no doubt Hendry will meet his asking price. And that the Cubs will eventually deeply regret the deal.

Isn't it funny that the Cubs have SO MUCH offseason work in front of them, and poor ol' Hendry will be consumed with brining back an existing player.

by BlueMike on Oct 30, 2006 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Boy, Mike....you are the MVP of BCB today!

No joke.....I said that before too that the Angels are going to be a thorn in our side this winter. Both teams' GMs are on the hot seat and under a lot of pressure from up above to deliver.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 30, 2006 8:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." -- Sylvester Graham

by ExNorthsider on Oct 30, 2006 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's acknowledged

that the Cubs already lack at least one power bat. If ARam leaves, that makes two. So which two players will the team add to make the team better? If we trade for Wells, we not only end up paying about the same dollars, we will also lose quality prospects.

If we lose ARam and get Soriano we still are short one power bat and our payroll will be the same as if we resigned Aramis.

I just don't see any possible way we could lose Ramirez and contend in 2007.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 30, 2006 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

n/t

by Al on Oct 30, 2006 8:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand...

... your contention, however I don't believe that the Cubs "despiration" should lead to them overpaying for Aramis. In my mind Aramis is deserving of a new deal paying him on average $13M for four years. I don't think he's worthy of 5-6 years at $15M a year. I don't want to see the Cubs pay that, regardless of the potential holes it opens up.

My bigger concern is having an overpaid, broken down Aramis Ramirez in 2010-2012. Thats a heavy burden for this team. I also believe that Aramis' lack of early season production is a major concern. I see him as a part of the reason why the Cubs have not contended over the past two seasons.

Yes, it creates other problems. Thats part of baseball, making decisions. I realize that this will be followed by Hendry bashing, but he's a GM for a reason and I'd hope that he'd use Aramis' salary wisely on other players. Personally, I'd prefer to see this team actually put together a competant game plan rather than paying players willy nilly. If that means not competing in 2007, so be it.

I'm sick of competing every third year. I want to win a World Series.

DmL

by dmlichte on Oct 30, 2006 8:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Conclusion

This General Manager gig isn't as easy as it might seem, is it?

by jazzman56 on Oct 30, 2006 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On one hand, I agree...

If the plan is not to compete in 2007 or 2008, I'm fine with them letting Ramirez walk. I really am. If that's the plan.

The problem, DML, in my opinion, is that from the Piniella hire and what McDunoough has said, the plan is to win in 2007. And win "big".

So, we have to take that into consideration. If they let Ramirez go, Hendry will have to do even MORE to put a competent offense together, which means trading away more talent and hurting the team even worse five years down the road(since FA doesn't offer a bunch).

Anyway, I agree that they shouldn't overpay for Ramirez because I would rather see them "rebuild" for a perrennial contending team.

However, since they plan on competing, letting Ramirez walk will completely destroy this team for anything past '08. I guess I would just rather have Ramirez's bloated contract, but still have our prospects, too.

Does that make some sense why so many of us want him re-signed? I don't know... Maybe not...

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -- Albert Einstein

by tyger1147 on Oct 30, 2006 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

... if Aramis is going to come back and be his usual self in April, May and June, he is going to do little to help the Cubs compete anyway. Ramirez puts up great fantasy league statistics by the end of the season however, as I've said before, I think there is some context to be considered with Aramis and some cause for not considering Aramis to be the end all, be all.

I'm not ready to say that Aramis leaving means the Cubs are dead for 2007. It depends on what is done to fill that hole. I am not making this an issue of Hendry's abilities, however he is the GM and will be the one charged with filling the 3B hole if Aramis departs.

DmL

by dmlichte on Oct 30, 2006 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thats why

the ONLY good move hendry could have done was to try to extend him before the deadline, and if he couldn't do it, trade him. i don't know why this logic was lost on jim last july.

"I love baseball. You know it doesn't have to mean anything, it's just beautiful to watch." - Woody Allen in Zelig (1983)

by tomas21 on Oct 30, 2006 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No Trade Clause

It has been mentioned on WSCR and WGN that Aramis had a no-trade clause. Aramis may have been willing to wave that and yes, I do believe the Cubs should have investigated a trade. Interestingly, I was listening to David Kaplan this evening on WGN's sportscentral, and while I missed part of the Aramis discussion, he seemed to intimate that Ramirez told the Cubs at some point that he planned on resigning with them. We may never know, but reading between the lines, it appears that Aramis reniged on a verbal agreement he had with the team.

DmL

by dmlichte on Oct 30, 2006 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Two points here.

First, apparently there WAS a verbal agreement, on which he may very well have reneged. We do not know whether he said he'd sign before he filed for free agency, though.

Second, the radio report of a no-trade clause for Ramirez this past season is 100% false. There was no such clause.

by Al on Oct 31, 2006 4:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Al...

... can you confirm this? Its been mentioned on several stations, including WGN. David Kaplan, who I'm not a huge fan of, tends to have Hendry's ear and is often a mouthpiece for the Cubs organization. I would put money on the fact that Kaplan has discussed with Hendry whether or not the team considered trading Aramis, and it would seem likely that the no-trade clause would come up. I know you don't like sports radio, Al, but I think its a pretty safe bet that Kaplan is in the know on this one.

DmL

by dmlichte on Oct 31, 2006 6:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What I have heard...

... is that there WAS a handshake deal in place, and it appears that Ramirez and his agent reneged on it. That MAY have included a PROMISE not to deal him, but I do not believe it included a WRITTEN no-trade clause. Had there been one, I feel certain we would have heard about it when the contract was first announced in April 2005.

by Al on Oct 31, 2006 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If they....

have reneged, shame on ARam and his agent. I remember an article where ARam spoke to his love of the Cubs and how he would not excercise his FA option. My how times have changed.

I know that a deal can still be worked out. I do believe that he will hit the open market. If he does not, he will end up getting a contract in the range of 6/90. Too much, IMHO.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Oct 31, 2006 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you kidding?

Shame on Ramirez??

Shame on his agrent???

How about shame on the rum-soaked donught-munching general manager who thought a handshake deal was sufficient??

If he had a deal it would have been signed. If he really though a handshake deal would hold up he is a bigger fucking moron than I gave him credit for.

by pwhalen on Oct 31, 2006 7:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was....

being sarcastic......

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Oct 31, 2006 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

A few points

ARam's numbers in 2003-2005
April OPS .835
May OPS .844
June OPS .937

So, in reality, while his numbers are not outstanding, they're still very good.

As for overpaying him, if others perceive him to be worth 5/$75M, what is his worth?

If we realize that he won't cost us any prospects, we either pay him or end up overpaying average ballplayers in free agency or give up prospects trying to fix the hole at 3rd.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 30, 2006 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It would seem that way

But who knows whats going to happen. I mean, Lou has apparently told Hendry he NEEDS another big bat. So yea, it wouldn't seem to make sense to let A-Ram go and have two big bats short. Between the two, I'd rather keep A-Ram than get Soriano instead. However, having both would be ideal situation. Another thing, Lou has said he doesn't want to add a power bat in the outfield who's also a butcher on defense(aka Lee). So it would seem logical that Lou would prefer to keep A-Ram, so we don't have to sign an outfielder like Lee. I just wish Hendry would have traded him at the trading deadline and we wouldn't have all these problems right now. When is Hendry going to take his head out of his ass.

by Macy on Oct 31, 2006 12:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Novel idea

Let's sign A-Ram to a two year contract at $18 mil per with automatic renewal provisions based on plate appearances.

by Mercury on Oct 31, 2006 7:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

aramis

dont know if this makes sense but maybe we could bring back nomar to play 3rd.only problem there is factoring in injury time which he seems to accumulate every year.had a great season for the dodgers but also spent time on the d.l. i truly believe ramirez will test the open market being a cub fan for 35 years truly breeds pessimisim.dont know who we,ll put at 3rd if rammy leaves

by NOMAR on Oct 31, 2006 7:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Bill Mueller and Pat Burrell

It is not inconceivable that Bill Mueller becomes the Cubs starting 3rd baseman and Pat Burrell a starting outfielder in 2007. Vomit bags will be passed out momentarily.

by BlueMike on Oct 31, 2006 8:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Can we at least talk to the Royals about

Mark Teahen?

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 31, 2006 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Cubs talk to the Royals...

... I'd like to try to get David DeJesus.

by Al on Oct 31, 2006 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Related to Ivan?

n/t

Coming Soon! Build-A-Bear Workshop's "Sweet Lou" Doll Giveaway!

by Littlerock Rynofan on Oct 31, 2006 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope.

n/t

by Al on Oct 31, 2006 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

DeJesus is awesome....and he's so

cheap for years (under contract until 2010...for practically nothing).....but Teahen--well you saw the numbers I posted yesterday.....in 383 ab's!

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 31, 2006 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Teahan

Strikes me as a Dave Magadan clone, which is no great shakes. I'm not convinced of his power or run production ability. But if we lose Aramis Ramirez, he certainly is intriguing to consider.

by BlueMike on Oct 31, 2006 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know how you can already

distinguish how Teahen is going to developed....he debuted in 2005.

Again......

Teahen 2006-

*.290/.357/.517,
*.287 EqA, 5.2 WARP-1 (on the Royals)
*18 HR
*69 RBI
*70 runs
*10 SB
*21 2b
*7 3B

...all in only 393 AB's.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 31, 2006 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm....

A trade for David DeJesus and Mark Teahan.... Would definitely have to give up multiple top prospects, but something worth thinking about. For starters, Felix Pie and Donald Veal???

by BlueMike on Oct 31, 2006 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

... if you got DeJesus, Pie would likely have to be included. But I imagine you could get away with pitchers lesser than Veal.

by Al on Oct 31, 2006 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd love both

but I don't think that both can be had by the Cubs beacuse the Cubs don't have the chips. I don't think that Pie is going anywhwere no matter what short of a true superstar coming back.

I think that the Royals are prime trade targets for the Cubs this winter. If the Cubs re-sign Ramirez, then they should persue DeJesus. If they don't sign him, they should go after Teahan.

by NO100 on Oct 31, 2006 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If we want to start to be major players...

Aren't we obligated to take players from the Royals (a la Johnny D., Carlos Beltran)?

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -- Albert Einstein

by tyger1147 on Oct 31, 2006 10:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

lol....yes!

Let's start now with DeJesus and more importantly-- Mark Teahen!

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 31, 2006 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

purely hypothetical..

i think its safe to say that dejesus isnt going anywhere. and i'd imagine you could get away with not giving up too much to get teahen if you agreed to take the contract of elarton and sweeney.

so you plug elarton in as your 5th starter when he's ready, move derrek lee to LF and plug in Sweeney at 1B.

im not saying its a good idea, but is it worth thinking about?

by circuitclout on Oct 31, 2006 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

so you plug elarton in as your 5th starter when he's ready, move derrek lee to LF and plug in Sweeney at 1B

You want to move one of the game's best defensive 1B's to LF? Just keep Sweeney on the bench and start him on days to give Lee a rest. He would be a great bat off the bench if healthy.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Oct 31, 2006 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs