Aaron Heilman - 5th starter?

by VS on Oct 31, 2006 11:34 PM CST

Hendry will try to bring in one or two front-line starters through free agency or via the Japanese market, but sources indicate the Cubs also may get involved in trade talks with the New York Mets in hopes of acquiring right-hander Aaron Heilman.

If the Cubs nab Heilman, he would be given a chance to earn the fifth starter's spot in spring training, along with veteran Wade Miller, whom the Cubs hope to re-sign. Mark Prior's uncertain status will force the Cubs to go to spring training with a surplus of starting pitching candidates.

I wouldn't give up too much for a guy like Heilman, but he could be a decent choice for a fifth starter. He recently had surgery on his elbow, though.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Saw that

He's sucked as a starter in the past. I like my idea better.

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Oct 31, 2006 11:34 PM CST reply actions

Also,

this means that Hendry A) plans on getting Soriano and putting him at 2B for years to come B) wants Theriot there C) wants to sign a vet and use him for a couple years until a better FA 2B is available.

All of those would mean he isn't high on E-Pat and wants to get something for him while he can.

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Oct 31, 2006 11:40 PM CST reply actions

E-Patt

I don't think anybody should be high on Eric but himself.

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Nov 1, 2006 12:17 AM CST up reply actions

Put up a nice line

for the brief time he was at Iowa. I imagine he'll be starting at 2B and Cedeno at SS there next year.

I won't be surprised if he puts up great numbers or ends up a total flop. He'll probably be a throw-in for some deal.

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Nov 1, 2006 12:39 AM CST up reply actions

The Cubs may be interested

but I'm not so sure how interested the Mets would be. If the Mets were looking to trade Heilman, the smart move would have been to deal him at the trade deadline in July when they could have gotten a premium for him. Maybe somebody who could have gotten that big hit in Game 7 of the NLCS.

I don't know who the Mets would want from us for Heilman. I guess Jacque Jones would be the only real possibility. I guess that trade might work, but of course, then we'd need to go out and get a RF this off-season.

Save the cheerleader. Save the Cubs.

by Josh Timmers on Nov 1, 2006 12:43 AM CST reply actions

Heilman would be a great signing..

Sure he hasn't been great as a starter, but he's been very solid as a reliever. His days as a starter he was still young.

I really think he's figured himself out a little bit better relieving, and would be a quality #4 starter, no question about it.

by ontheuptick on Nov 1, 2006 7:03 AM CST reply actions

Not sold on this one

The Heilman topic is totally out of the blue. In seeing Heilman pitch for the Mets. I liked him. I saw a Tom Glavin type pitcher in him only he hasn't figured it out yet. Now if Rothchild is this great pitching coach that can turn him around. I say trade the minimum trade for this guy. Will Ohman, Mike Wertz maybe or Ohman, Metao for Heilman and PTBNL. Seems fair for both teams. They get a relief pitcher and a possible starter and so do we, but with a little more seasoning.

"We're going to win here, That's really the end of the story." Lou Piniella

by Scott G F on Nov 1, 2006 7:52 AM CST up reply actions

Heilman is similiar to Glavine???

Wow, that's way off base. Heilman throws MUCH harder - 93-94 MPH. He can come right after batters, unlike Glavine.....

"...Someday we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny"

by Speedywheels on Nov 1, 2006 3:13 PM CST up reply actions

Hogwash

The Mets have precisely one quality starting pitcher right now, that being 41 year old Tom Glavine. Pedro might miss all of 2007, El Duque is 146 years old, and Steve Tracshel is a free agent. And you mean to tell me that Mets, who are already offensively loaded, want to deal away a quality young pitcher?!? I'm not buying this one bit.

by BlueMike on Nov 1, 2006 8:43 AM CST reply actions

Absolutely correct

No way Heilman goes. He's a good young pitcher with a fair amount of upside. Just because he's had a few bad starts doesn't mean he hasn't learned from them and improved.

Of course, I'd love for the Cubs to get him if they could, but why do the Cubs need more young, unproven pitching?

by NO100 on Nov 1, 2006 9:12 AM CST up reply actions

Good for you Blue mike

The truth is, Heilman and Met management have been at odds over his role for two years now. He's wanted to start ever since he threw a two hit shutout in 2005. The Mets have put him in the pen even though they told him this last spring he would be a starter.

The Mets have Pelfrey, Phillip Humber and John Maine, who pitched well in the playoffs, they're going to land one of the big three (Mtsuzuka, Zito, Schmidt). So it's possible they'll deal Heilman.

Personally I see Heilman being packaged with Milledge for something big, Dontrelle Willis perhaps, but I wouldn't be surprised if Heilman is dealt.

"I can't be held responsible for what I personally tell my goons to do...."- C. Montgomery Burns

by yahoodi on Nov 1, 2006 10:08 AM CST up reply actions

The Mets

don't really view Heilman as a starter. They traded for about 80 relief pitchers last year yet kept Heilman in the pen. If they thought we was starter material for them they could have moved him to the rotation, yet they didn't.

I agree that the Mets shouldn't be trading pitching for offense, at least until they land some new pitchers, but I don't agree that they won't trade Heilman.

by pageian on Nov 1, 2006 10:23 AM CST up reply actions

Mets have no interest in having him start....

So yeah, they would be willing to trade him (and others) for a quality 2B or LF...

"...Someday we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny"

by Speedywheels on Nov 1, 2006 3:14 PM CST up reply actions

Correct me

if I'm wrong but Heilman is being used in releif with them too.....he's injured, avoid him.

TRAMMELL!

by Faith plus 1 on Nov 1, 2006 9:00 PM CST up reply actions

Injured?

He made 74 appearances and threw 87 innings and to my knowledge, spent no time on the DL in 2006. Nor did he do so during 2005.

Not sure where you get this "injured" information, but if you have some, pass it along.

by Al Yellon on Nov 1, 2006 9:17 PM CST up reply actions

ESPN

He had surgery on his elbow. Here's the link http://games.espn.go.com/cgi/flb/playernewsarchive?statsId=7065

Yeah, trading for a not particularly good, old suspect who's just underwent elbow surgery, that's smart stuff.

by Frustrated Fan on Nov 1, 2006 10:35 PM CST up reply actions

Hmmm.

I had not heard that. Odd, that he'd have surgery after pitching a full season as he did.

That said, yes, I think he's better avoided. It is very peculiar for a player to be placed on the DL after the season ends.

by Al Yellon on Nov 2, 2006 9:08 AM CST up reply actions

Al...

Does the 15-day DL allow them to put someone else on their 40-man roster to avoid the Rule 5 Draft?

If so, that might be a reason. Although that's totally stupid because I could see teams doing that all the time. So I doubt it's possible.

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -- Albert Einstein

by tyger1147 on Nov 2, 2006 10:54 AM CST up reply actions

No...

... you'd have to put someone on the 60-day DL to do that, and I don't think you can do that in the offseason.

Teams do all sorts of maneuvers to protect people from the rule 5 draft, but this isn't likely one of them.

by Al Yellon on Nov 2, 2006 11:00 AM CST up reply actions

All you need to know

Is that Heilman is a Notre Dame product. Jim Hendry's best buddy is the coach there, ergo Hendry believes Heilman is wonderful. Anybody heard from Grant Johnson lately? He's also a former first round draft pick who hasn't lived up to expectations (a la Michael Barrett). If Aaron had also attended high school in Tampa, Hendry would probably trade Zambrano for him.

Realistically, the Mets need starters, and yet they haven't shown confidence in Heilman to start. This may have led to some bad feelings between Aaron and the coaching staff, such that NY feels they can trade him for equal value, and be better off. Equal value=Michael Wuertz or Sean Marshall.

STRODE!

by cubzfan on Nov 1, 2006 9:16 AM CST reply actions

there has to be

a reason that heilman was never made a starter in new york, i wouldn't even trade wuertz or marshall for him

by kylejo on Nov 1, 2006 12:19 PM CST up reply actions

Thumbs down

to Heilman. I'd rather see the Cubs stick with their own young pitchers than trading to get a slightly older model that will be average at best. At least with Mateo, Marmol, etc. you have the possibility of a higher ceiling. If/when the Cubs bring any new pitchers in, I want them to be proven, established starters, solid pitchers that will undoubtedly (insofar as we can tell, being that we can't predict the future) help us win games, e.g. Matsuke (sp.), Kuroda, Schmidt, etc.

A serious moment for the match is when it burst into flame...

by Kegler on Nov 1, 2006 12:46 PM CST reply actions

Heilman

As a FIFTH starter, Heilman would be a welcome addition. I have no problem giving up someone like Cedeno, Wuertz, Marshall, etc. for him. Heilman has put up very solid numbers the last two years and has made it known he would much rather start than relieve. The Cubs can do far worse than Heilman as a #5 guy in the rotation.

by cubboy89 on Nov 1, 2006 12:51 PM CST reply actions

Heilman Bad idea, typical Cub Idea

Should the Cubs sign Heilman? Of course not, they have LOTS of good young starters in their system with higher upsides -- both short and long term. But this is also typical Cubs. Go out and sign a "veteran" (not really a veteran, but not a rookie) who is going to be older and a bit more expensive for less production becuase "you don't get fired for buying IBM". If Heilman screws up, you can always blame it on bad luck or the Mets, if the young player screws up then the quesiton is asked as to why no Heilman.

by frustratedfan on Nov 1, 2006 6:16 PM CST up reply actions

Not sure why...

... you think Heilman would be "expensive". He made $359,000 in 2006 -- barely over the minimum.

He's a little old for a "prospect" -- 28. But.

He has had excellent WHIPs the last two years. He's talented and does not walk people. Depending on what it'd take to get him, I'd say sure, go ahead.

by Al Yellon on Nov 1, 2006 7:06 PM CST up reply actions

Hill and Heilman

You threw Hill under the Bus as "too old". Now the Cubs are talking about signing an old suspect (the late Jerome Williams accomplished more than Heilman at a much younger age) and not using any of the various highly touted young pitchers on the staff. And you are saying that Heilman' s "a little old" for a prospect at 28. Uh, yeah, that's a little old, particularly when the "prospect" is coming off of Elbow surgery.

Even one dime over the MLB minimum is too much for Heilman.

Teams don't need to trade for Heilman's, they can sign them off the waiver wire.

dumb dumb dumb

But then don't ever under estimate the P.T. Barnum-like traits of the Cub front office or overestimate the inteligence of the Cub fans, who never can see through this. As P.T. Barnum once said, there's a sucker born every minute.

by Frustrated Fan on Nov 1, 2006 8:51 PM CST up reply actions

Nit pick

Although it is often attributed to him, I don't think P.T. Barnum said that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute

http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html

"My uncle says you've got a screw loose." -- "Your uncle molests collies."

by jcub on Nov 2, 2006 10:24 AM CST up reply actions

ha

yeah, lets trade cedeno for him...that may be the only player id give up for him

by kylejo on Nov 2, 2006 12:01 PM CST up reply actions

I actually don't hate this idea

I've always sort of liked Heilman, and he pitched well in the playoffs. . .well, you know, with the exception of that one pitch. Putting him at 5 beats the hell out of penciling in Prior/Miller/Marmol/Guzman et al.

"Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic." Crash Davis

by cubbiejulie on Nov 1, 2006 1:20 PM CST reply actions