Best Off Season Move: Vernon Wells?

by BadGuy on Nov 10, 2006 12:49 PM CST Comment 44 comments

Out of all the "Power Bats" available right now, the one I find most exciting is Vernon Wells.
He's young, 26, he's talented (31 HR 106 RBI's, OBP .357 OPS .899), great range, great arm, great speed, although he doesn't try to steal much (17 SB in 2006).

With the impending loss of Juan Pierre, is there any reason that the Cubs shouldn't make a move for Wells?
There are several reasons there hasn't been much talk:

We don't have much to trade.
Felix Pie.
No assurances of signing him to a longer term deal.

So what would you be willing to give up for Wells?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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BeerBaron?

You want to take this one?

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Nov 10, 2006 12:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

No, I will.

I've long been in favor of doing this. You'd probably have to give them Michael Barrett, Felix Pie and (choose one pitching prospect).

Then you sign either Bengie Molina or Gregg Zaun as a free agent to platoon with Henry Blanco, who is re-signed.

None of this is to be done if you don't agree to sign Wells to an extension, though.

by Al on Nov 10, 2006 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you really......

believe that Barrett, Pie, and a pitching prospect is enough?????????

IMHO, I think Toronto would laugh at that.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Nov 10, 2006 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, let's see.

You're giving them a starting catcher, a guy who's SUPPOSED to be a hot prospect that could replace Wells in CF, and a young pitcher.

Why wouldn't that be enough?

by Al on Nov 10, 2006 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Especially since

Wells has said that he won't re-sign with them when his contract is up, hasn't he? If that's the case, I would think that would be enough.

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Nov 10, 2006 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Okay....

a good offensive catcher who is poor at best behind the plate.

a prospect who has dropped in the eyes of many.

a pitching prospect?????? Did we not go through most of them last year?

Not to be "negative", but I think other teams could and would offer more......

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Nov 10, 2006 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OK...

... Yes, Barrett's defense isn't great. But that would just mean they could use him as DH on the days he's not catching.

Not sure in whose eyes Pie's stock has dropped. He still ranks very high as a Cub prospect.

There are MANY young Cub pitchers who could be included here, as noted below, Michael Wuertz might be a good incentive.

by Al on Nov 10, 2006 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I will wager....

a beer at the convention (I know you are excited to DEATH to meet me;)) that Pie is not the Cubs top prospect when the BA rating are announced.

As for Barrett being a DH, his numbers are not good enough. IMHO, Toronto will want a power hitter, especially if they are parting with Wells....

No More Negativity! I am reborn!!!!!!

by timeforachange on Nov 10, 2006 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Whether or not...

... Pie "ranks" 1st or not, he is still viewed as "a" top prospect.

If I'm the Blue Jays, I make that deal.

by Al on Nov 10, 2006 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess....

that is why we are not GMs!

No More Negativity! I am reborn!!!!!!

by timeforachange on Nov 10, 2006 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Might be Gallagher

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Nov 10, 2006 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

just outs curiosity

what kind of stuff does Wuertz have?

by grover13 on Nov 10, 2006 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wuertz...

... has very good stuff, but is inconsistent, doesn't throw strikes all the time, and can't often go two days in a row.

by Al on Nov 10, 2006 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Stuff and control are one thing

not being able to go back-to-back kills all interest. Thanks for the info.

by grover13 on Nov 10, 2006 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wells has been the beneficiery of a lot of hype...

...in reality he's been rather inconsistent.

2006 was a great year for him, but the previous two seasons are rather underwhelming for how good everyone is making him out to be.

Either way, I don't see the Jays trading him. If they do I see it as a deadline deal, not an offseason one.

The Jays think they can take the WC, maybe even the division next year. Tough to see them accomplishing that without their best hitter and it certainly wouldn't be sending their fans the right message about competing.

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Nov 10, 2006 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

pretty consistant actually

Wells, in 5 full years in the majors, has drove in over 100 rbi's in 3 of them, 97 in another, .288 career batting average, and around 30 hr's each year.

Not to shabby for a 26 year old

by DTJchris on Nov 10, 2006 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wells is 28...

...not 26. That's a big difference.

His agent is talking about Beltran money for next offseason.

Wells's OBP skills are lower than Beltran. He does not steal bases. And while he is a fine defenseman, is he worth burning our best prospects for and then paying 17MM+ per year? For a guy with only one season over a .900 OPS? With suspect on base skills?

Don't get me wrong, Wells is a fine player, but we stand to lose what talent we have in the minors plus our shirts at the negotiating table.

And BTW, gold glove and all-star awards mean nothing to me and shouldn't to you. Cesar Izturis is an all-star and gold glover too.

Anyhow, if we land Wells, I won't bitch, I promise you that, but I won't get in line for playoff tickets either.

But I still think this is moot as I don't believe the Jays are going to trade Wells unless they get a boatload in return. They are trying to win. Losing Wells and adding prospects does not help them win next year.

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Nov 10, 2006 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

First of all...

Wells stole 17 bases in 2006 (only caught 3 times)....so he has some speed....

Second, the Jays need to move him NOW....to get maximum value. If Riccardi waits until the trading deadline, it's a huge risk. What if Wells gets injured? The CUBS really would move Barrett, Pie and [insert young pitcher here] for him.....that's a very good deal to me......Pie is near MLB ready--a little time needed....plus, the Jays can go after Matthews, Pierre or Roberts.....

Riccardi also implied (in an ESPN.com article) that "if" Wells was no longer with the team, they still haev Reed Johnson and Alex Rios.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Nov 10, 2006 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know you've got a mancrush on Wells...

...dude, I understand. We all have our faves. However, I think it clouds your judgment some.

I didn't say Wells didn't have any speed, just that he's not Beltran-esque. The 17 steals last year were the same number he had the previous two seasons combined. Albert Pujols stole 16 in 2005 when he had less than that number his entire career. What happened this year? He went back to his usual number of steals and I would bet the 17 steals are an anomaly for Wells, and won't become the norm. You can't take one year of 17 steals and then project a player will stay there when they've averaged far less than 10 steals per year before then. And if you want Beltran money your numbers better be pretty damn close. His aren't.

Not to mention that Wells is not the OBP guy that Beltran has generally been. That to me is far more important than steals anyhow.

Don't get me wrong. He is a fine player, but don't get pissed because I don't share your googlie-eyes for him.

And if I'm the Jays I giggle at this Pie offer. If now is max value as you say, then the Jays can get more than a K-prone CF prospect and a FA to be catcher along with <snicker> Sean Marshall.

And one thing you overlook still is that the Jays think they can win NOW. They are planning on winning NOW. You don't trade away your 28 year old star CF, middle-of-the-order bat for a bunch of maybes. Especially when you are promising your fan base that payroll will be raised and that you intend to beat the Yankees and Red Sox NEXT YEAR.

This Wells thing just seems a flight of fancy to me. There is no reason for the Jays to deal him now if they are planning on competing next year. I see it more likely they pony up the dough necessary to keep him (I've read he is in fact open to coming back to Toronto, probably posturing, but it is what it is) then it is they deal him this offseason for prospects, especially OUR prospects.

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Nov 10, 2006 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I love Wells...

I think he is MVP-caliber over the next couple of years. (whatever that means)

But one thing you forgot to mention that most know already... Wells is in his walk year. Ricciardi knows this. And NO, it's not about extending him. It's about the fact the Blue Jays feel they can win next year...

So...

you take a 28-year-old improving every year player in a contract year? You get MONSTER numbers and clutch play. Ricciardi knows this. He'll want WAY too much in return.

As much as I have wanted Wells the past year, the Cubs are better to wait on him and see where the BJ's are come deadline time. Unless they can get him for Barrett, Marshall, Pie that is...

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -- Albert Einstein

by tyger1147 on Nov 10, 2006 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd also like to go on record as saying that...

IF Wells is not traded

--AND--

IF he stays healthy all year

--AND--

IF the Blue Jays are in the AL East race all year.

THEN, you will see:

.310 avg. 43-47 HR's 130-140 RBI's .925 OPS

and some great highlight reel defense (diving for balls, going over walls, etc.)

Someone save that and let's say if it happens.

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -- Albert Einstein

by tyger1147 on Nov 10, 2006 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Um, I did mention this...

...at length in fact.

Please re-read.

I said the Blue Jays feel they can win now. Many times over. It is one of my main arguments. But I also don't feel they have given up on extending him yet.

Basically everything you said I didn't mention I did.

So, I don't know who you're responding to, but it couldn't have been me.

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Nov 10, 2006 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

However...to clarify...

...I have been and usually am wrong most of the time.

And if we get Wells for the package everyone's throwing around here, only Pie and a Wuertz and a Marshall, then I'll consider it a steal.

If it costs us Pie + Veal + Gallagher or even Hill, then it's a bad deal. And that's what I'm thinking it might.

But again, don't get me wrong, Wells is a fine player and if we were to get him for the right price, a welcome addition.

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Nov 10, 2006 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly what I was saying below..

I don't think Wells is worth including Rich Hill at all. And yes, my Vernon Wells man-crush is clouding my judgement a little....but he does fill a TON of needs for the CUBS.....

And Riccardi did say "We still have Reed Johnson and Alex Rios"

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Nov 10, 2006 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and gold glove defense

by DTJchris on Nov 10, 2006 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All-Star too

n/t

by BadGuy on Nov 10, 2006 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes it would..

It's a walk year for him and both Toronto catchers are about to hit the FA market. Unless he gets on board with an extension, I don't believe he'll be retained by the Blue Jays.

by Damen Jackson on Nov 10, 2006 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I almost said...

I almost posted my suggestion as Barrett, Pie and Wuertz

by BadGuy on Nov 10, 2006 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd think...

... that would probably do it.

by Al on Nov 10, 2006 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They'd want a starter

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Nov 10, 2006 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yup.

They'd probably ask for Barrett, Pie, and Hill. That would be a fair deal.

by jamie on Nov 10, 2006 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And no way would Hendry do it

he'd offer Barret, Pie, and Marshall.

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Nov 10, 2006 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And....

... that's what negotiating is all about. Barrett, Pie and Marshall MIGHT do it.

by Al on Nov 10, 2006 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't want to give up Hill in that deal

Because that would leave our rotation with:

Z
Prior
Miller
Marshall
Ryu/Guzman/etc...

We need to keep Hill (and Gallagher) and trade or a sign a #2 or #3. Part of me is expecting Gallagher to crack the rotation because of a really good spring training. That can't be counted on though, so we'll be doomed next year unless we can add one of Matsuzaka, Zito, Schdmidt, or trade for a Willis type.

Hell, send Florida Prior and Pie.

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Nov 10, 2006 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

FYI

The Angels have serious interest in Wells and last season at the trade deadline they were willing to part with Ervin Santana and Erick Aybar to rent Soriano for two months. I imagine they'll offer at least as much for a full season of Vernon Wells.

SS is seen as a critical area for Toronto and Aybar is one of the top SS prospects in baseball.

by grover13 on Nov 10, 2006 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What? Are you insane?

For as much as I love Vernon Wells on the CUBS.....he is NOT worth Rich Hill, Felix Pie and Michael Barrett......with the state of the CUBS rotation and the way Hill finished the season, I wouldn't trade Rich Hill straight up for Vernon Wells......

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Nov 10, 2006 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No there's....

no reason why Hendry shouldn't trade for Wells, but you've just answered your own question......there isn't much to trade for him, at least not anything that any other team couldn't offer that's better. Hendry has a hard enough time doing things in ideal situations let alone situations where he's behind the 8 ball.....as he would be if he attempted to trade for Wells.

"Some advice: Stop worrying about being a good corporate citizen."-Phil Rodgers to Jim Hendry 10/6/06

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Nov 10, 2006 12:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Damn!! I stepped in this diary too late

I don't think that I need to regurgitate my feelings on Vernon Wells for the 8,000,000th time ;)

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Nov 10, 2006 1:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Vernon Wells

I'd give up Matt Murton, Felix Pie and a top pitching prospect for Vernon Wells. Heck, I'd give up my left nut to get a player of his quality and a person of his professionalism. But he probably costs the mother lode to acquire, especially given the impending craziness with free agency signings. Toronto is fools for even thinking of trading Wells. I'd give him half of Canada if I were JP Riccardi. If you can pay BJ Ryan $45 million and AJ Burnett $55 million, then surely you can pay Vernon Wells.

by BlueMike on Nov 10, 2006 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sing it brother.....

If you can pay BJ Ryan $45 million and AJ Burnett $55 million, then surely you can pay Vernon Wells.

No kidding!!!

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Nov 10, 2006 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Once more

just to save Progs a little headache.

Why in the f'ing world at this point would the Jays give up a star CF who perenially produces for them when their attitude all the while last year and this year is "we're going to win the AL East".

It's a nice little man-crush you've got going on, not very realistic though.

TRAMMELL!

by Faith plus 1 on Nov 10, 2006 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was agreeing with Mike63

On the fact that Riccardi gave ridiculous contracts to mediocre players (Ryan and Burnett) but he won't pay a player that's actually worth it......

I brought up valid reasons as to why the Jays should move Wells sooner than later.....so there's no need to repeat myself....

But you are right, it isn't very realistic and it's definetely a pipe dream.....b/c the only certanty about the CUBS is that they are going to go 99 years with out a WS championship.

STEVE STONE!

by TheBeerBaron on Nov 10, 2006 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who said money was the reason?

Especially since Wells has told Riccardi hey man.. I'm out after this next year. Peace. It's not so much about money.. Also they do have to sign some other guy .. you may have heard of him .. Roy Halladay.. he also is a FA next year. Also they have a guy who can already pick up the offensive slack in CF in Reed Johnson.. I'd say Wells stands a fairly good chance of being moved this off-season or deadline. If not he'll be one of the more sought after FA's next off-season

by cubsfan2883 on Nov 10, 2006 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh Canada!

It is not that uncommon for a baseball player to want to get out of Canada as soon as possible.

They tax them much higher in Canada, the fans are not as numerous, and the fans are usually not as dedicated (they tend to like hockey, eh).

Not to mention the fact that Toronto may try really hard and spend a lot of money, but the Sox and Yankees have been in a spending frenzy the past 10-15 years, making it impossible for other teams in their division to have hope of winning said division. And after being beat up in their own division, they will be competing for the wild card with Oakland, CWS, and the solid Indians (among others), Wells may not like Toronto's chance of making the playoffs next year.

"My uncle says you've got a screw loose." -- "Your uncle molests collies."

by jcub on Nov 10, 2006 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs