TGIF Rumor Diary

by tomas21 on Dec 8, 2006 8:20 AM CST

Fresh off my daughter's first time sleeping through the night, i'll post the first diary of the day, since i was disappointed to see no new rumormongoring today.

the orioles are interested in jacque jones, according to phil rogers, and are willing to give us a utility man in return.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/n/newhada01.shtml
if hendry trades jacque for garbage, i will drive to his hospital and punch him in the stomach.

rogers also says that the rockies talked to the astros about a deal for jennings, but the astros wouldn't give up a top prospect in the deal. i think eventually the rockies will find exhaust all their options for jennings and maybe we'll have a match. hopefully that happens before marquis signs.

if hendry is able to acquire jennings and church, i think i would be pleased with the off-season and our chances in the division.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Comments

I agree...

... with your last statement. Jennings and Church would be just fine with me, and fill two of the remaining holes.

Jones is worth more than Newhan, absolutely.

by Al Yellon on Dec 8, 2006 8:17 AM CST reply actions

Don't really like getting so little for JJ

And I'm not sure Church is the best addition to the OF, but he's better than some options.

I'd be happy with Jennings, I think, though Penny would be nicer.

BIG NAME PITCHER!! This sig is from the future, but didn't hear the specifics.

by HanOfTheBluegrass on Dec 8, 2006 8:35 AM CST reply actions

I'd be perfectly happy...

...with Church. I'd also be fine dealing Marshall to get him, as one rumor has suggested. And I like Marshall!

PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 8, 2006 8:39 AM CST up reply actions

Agreed!

n/t

by Al Yellon on Dec 8, 2006 8:43 AM CST up reply actions

Marshall is small potatoes/Church is a role player

To quote Hyman Rothstein the fictional character in "The Godfather".

Sean is a good prospect with MLB experience, he needs to develop another dominant pitch and he is a lefty which means he might not mature until his arbitration runs out.

Cubs have acquired one FA and if they can trade for another one, they have enough depth and pipeline to trade this class of pitchers and still keep the depth for development and injury.

Church appears to be a player on the come but with a communication problem with the brass in Washington. He appears that he can hit LHP and RHP at the same clip, some power, some speed probably look really good at the 6th or 7th spot in the order.

Cubs would definitely have to move either Jones or Murton and then let Pie develop.

If the Cubs do engineer this trade and then trade for a bona fide middle of the rotation SP they could be in good shape barring injury.

Heck, if they get fortunate and Prior does return to good health and effectiveness as a top of the rotation pitcher they could have the potential to be division contenders and if Wood then develops into a dominant closer, they could even....dare I say....dare....dare.....a WS contender.

Best Harry moment: 'Hey there's Marla without her shorts on!'

by Ivy Walls on Dec 8, 2006 11:01 AM CST up reply actions

Marshall is a 24 year old...

....6'7 Lefty who is only 24 years old and proved in his rookie season, a rookie season that he should've been in AAA I might add, that he can be successful and hold his own in this League. He is worth MUCH more than Church. It's ridiculous to even consider giving him up for Church. I think we might be overvaluing CHurch just a tad.

Again, people are forgetting that he should'nt have even been in the Majors last season and should've been in AAA working on his pitches and logging innings.

Mateo for Church is more reasonable.

Up next, trade Jones for a krappy pitcher and sign Cliff Floyd. Oyyy Boyyy.

by escapegoat on Dec 8, 2006 3:28 PM CST up reply actions

6'7 24 year old lefty's...

....don't grow on trees. His ceiling way higher than Church. Not even close.

Up next, trade Jones for a krappy pitcher and sign Cliff Floyd. Oyyy Boyyy.

by escapegoat on Dec 8, 2006 3:31 PM CST up reply actions

His Ceiling is irrelevant

The Cubs have made a concious decision with the signings of Miller and Lily that they do not wish to develop young players, but rather wish to sign career average veteran players. Marshall's ceiling is irrelevant becuase it is highly unlikely that he will ever get a chance to play with the organization. After all, this year he's going to be in AAA. Next year, the comment will be Marshall obviously regressed because he was in the Majors in 2006 and AAA in 2007. And he will be "old" for a prospect at 25 or 26. And soon he will be viewed as a failure. Its the Cubs way.

Since the Cubs will never let young players develop, they need to trade them for virtually any "younger" veteran that they can find. And Church fits that bill.

Mind you, a good team would not have signed Miller or Lily or DeRosa or Wood but instead would have played Marshall and Mateo and Theriot and Aardsma instead. But the Cubs are not a good and well run team.

by frustratedfan on Dec 8, 2006 4:39 PM CST up reply actions

Just because he's///

///"expendable" as you're suggesting, which I agree with, doesn't mean that you just give him up for Church. His value is much more than Church. If the rumors are true that indeed the Nationals want Marshall in a deal for Church, than that's exactly why the Cubs don't have Church on their roster.

Especially when Church is just a stop gap until Pie is ready. I'd rather sign Lofton than just give away Marshall.

Up next, trade Jones for a krappy pitcher and sign Cliff Floyd. Oyyy Boyyy.

by escapegoat on Dec 8, 2006 4:46 PM CST up reply actions

So, frustratedfan

that is what we should do, huh. Play a bunch of minor leaguers.

Have you watched the Kansas City Royals lately? Because that's what they do. And it stinks.

I'm all in support of the fact that this team is finally trying to win. Even if our team ends up stinking, we will still have valuable, tradeable parts that we can use to develop our team in the future.

The worst thing we could do is sit here and do nothing.

by nickler on Dec 8, 2006 4:55 PM CST up reply actions

Yes. Play a bunch of minor leaguers

I am not advocating being KC. What I am saying is that the Cubs are far too broken to be fixed in one off season and it is delusional to think that it can be. And, unlike KC, right now the Cubs DO have a large number of good young pitchers... all of whom are likely to produce numbers equal or better than Lily over the next few years.

Sometimes building a winner means biting the bullet and having a rebuilding year.

What I do not want is to see the Cubs ignore building a winner by bringing in a lot of expensive, low ceiling veterans that block young, cheap, higher ceiling players. Lily is a primary example of everything that is wrong with the Cubs. He's one year removed from a bad year. He's never had a really good year. He has never "eaten" innings. In sum, he's what one of our middle level prospects would look like it given playing time.

But the instant gratification Cubs and their fans will never let a team be built the right way.

(In contrast, both the Bulls and the Bears are getting better because they have built by having a few bad years. Even the White Sox have done this. But the Cubs, they continue to delude themselves.)

by Frustrated Fan on Dec 8, 2006 10:11 PM CST up reply actions

Church

Lefty stick that can hit 20+ homers. Likes to stikeout a lot, but gets a lot walks too. Jennings would be even a better addition. Not only would he be a good pitcher for use, but we would also keep him away from Houston.

by cubfaninSTL on Dec 8, 2006 8:50 AM CST reply actions

I have to admit...

I'm surprised to see so many people jumping to trade starting pitching here, even if for a need. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems like somehow the value of Marshall and Marmol has been diminished some among fans after doing a less than stellar job last year. Please remember that Sean should have been pitching in AA last year, still performed adequately, and really looks like a starter that could stick in a year or two. At pre-arbitration prices, no less. I'd hate to trade that for a part-time player, representing a short-term solution in CF.

And you have both my sympathy and congratulations on your daughter.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 8, 2006 8:50 AM CST reply actions

That's not quite it

The Cubs have a lack of major league ready starting pitching; however, they do have an abundance of young pitching. When you have as many holes to fill as the Cubs do, sometimes you have to part with young pitching to fill those holes.

I like Marshall and I think he has promise. But McDonough and Hendry have made clear that the goal is to win right now. In that case, trading him for someone who can fill a gap is a worthwhile thing.

PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 8, 2006 9:11 AM CST up reply actions

Oh, I agree..

I'm simply suggesting that if you're dealing pitching...aim a little higher. Let's revisit Church after the first of the year. The non-tender deadline is coming up, the trade market is starting to get going. Teams are reassessing their situations now that the free agents are signing, so perhaps some tnew names may become available. I think there are some better conversations to have right now, that's all.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 8, 2006 9:21 AM CST up reply actions

I can't say it as well as you...

But I agree. We all hate our guys: Marshall, Mateo, Guzman, Marmol and Ryu because their atrocious performances led to our horrible season. But we should understand that, except for Guzman and to a lesser extent Mateo (who was Rule 5'd by the Cardinals), none were expected to sniff the Majors.

So a year ago we'd say, "Marshall, Mateo, et al. are NOT ready for the majors next year." Then they go to the majors and do bad. And they somehow have dramatically less value? IMO, if their value has declined at all, it's miniscule. Hell, Marshall didn't pitch a whole year--but still pitched more than he ever had before, but he had some stretches early on where he really shut down some lineups. We can't give him up for a platoon partner for Matt Murton (which is what Church becomes in late '07 or 2008).

Skeptical of improvement. I'm waiting for a winner in 2010.

by tyger1147 on Dec 8, 2006 9:29 AM CST up reply actions

I'm going to shush now...

Because I just advocated trading Marshall and not trading Marshall for the same person within a span of 180 seconds. Call me out and call me stupid. In the words of Blankman, "Slap me and call me Susan."

Skeptical of improvement. I'm waiting for a winner in 2010.

by tyger1147 on Dec 8, 2006 9:30 AM CST up reply actions

No..

I think that was very well put.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 8, 2006 9:33 AM CST up reply actions

I'm surprised too........................

at how incredibly much people overrate Cub prospects. Marshall may someday be a decent #4 starter, but more likely with his lack of stuff, he will experience the same results as last year, once the league figured him out. Marmol at least has good movement and velocity, but he's nothing but a crapshoot. Just because they are young doesn't mean they are going to be good. Sure some pitchers develope, but the young Cub pitchers have shown nothing that leads me to expect anything spectacular. Ryan Church is nothing but a decent player, but our young pitchers aren't even close to being major league caliber. So yes, I'd be eager to trade starting pitching when it's that bad.

Rich Hill and Veal are a different story altogether.

by Rotodaddy on Dec 8, 2006 8:51 PM CST up reply actions

I still think

that the Cubs need a CF though. I really like an OF of Church/Murton in LF, Baldelli or DeJesus in CF, and Soriano in RF. Jennings would be an outstanding addition.

I've heard a few "official" rumors about Baldelli, nothing about DeJesus, so I think it's a long way off. Perhaps that means it's unlikely. In any event, I still think that CF is a big issue.

by NO100 on Dec 8, 2006 8:56 AM CST reply actions

Definitely...

But there are any number of short and long-term solutions that either offer the ability to not give up starting pitching, or provide a better return if are dealing starters. Especially if you can add Jones as a trading chip. Pre-arb starting pitching for a player likely to be a 4th outfielder by as soon as early fall? Please.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 8, 2006 9:03 AM CST up reply actions

Yes, yes, yes and yes

to everything you just said........

NO100, the official Truck Driver of the David DeJesus Bandwagon!

Check out my daily baseball blog at MLB-threeSIXTYfive

by TheBeerBaron on Dec 8, 2006 9:03 AM CST up reply actions

I dunno why...

...you think we disagree on everything, because that plan sounds like a good one to me.

PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 8, 2006 9:09 AM CST up reply actions

I'm sure we don't

I think it was just that day.

by NO100 on Dec 8, 2006 9:23 AM CST up reply actions

Just Say No

to Jason Marquis

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 8, 2006 8:59 AM CST reply actions

I'll say no.

NO!!

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Dec 8, 2006 4:42 PM CST up reply actions

LOL!!!

We'd might as well just keep Jacque in that case......but if he's traded for nothing, I'll drive you to the hospital tomas21, and we can take turns punching Hendry in the stomach.

Check out my daily baseball blog at MLB-threeSIXTYfive

by TheBeerBaron on Dec 8, 2006 9:01 AM CST reply actions

Jones/Jennings

The supposed trade demands/offers for Jennings:
Colorado asked for Rich Hill and Felix Pie. The Cubs offered Jacque Jones and Ronny Cedeno. On the surface, the Rockies request seems more ridiculous.

Oh, and I read else where that Marquis wants 3/$27M. If the Cubs want to take a flyer on Marquis, fine, but this guy is deserving of nothing more than a one year guarenteed contract for a million or two.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 8, 2006 9:18 AM CST reply actions

Pfft, Hill and Pie??

The deal better be Jason Jennings, Matt Holliday, Brad Hawpe, Troy Turlowski and Franklin Morales.

Check out my daily baseball blog at MLB-threeSIXTYfive

by TheBeerBaron on Dec 8, 2006 9:41 AM CST up reply actions

NO MORE TRADE TALK!!!

ugh... okay. I'm just disappointed in this off-season.

The ONLY trades I make are Marshall for Church. If Pie becomes "ready", you have your platoon partner for Murton--but why he needs one, I'm not sure, but that's what everyone thinks.

And Jacque Jones for ANYONE other than Jennings. Does anyone here seriously think adding Church and Jennings makes this team a World Series contender in 2007? HAHAHAHAHAHA Hilarious. I agree that if Jones has been respectful and asked nicely for a trade, you trade him while he has high value. But for one year? When we are CLEARLY not a team built for the World Series? Not for a rental player. Didn't we try that and it 100% backfired on us?

Jennings is better and would be more valuable to the Cubs than Pierre, but the exact same thing could be said for Jones compared to Mitre and Nolasco. It doesn't add up for me, not for one year. How many pitchers have we traded in the last year? 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 At least eight. Maybe more. And I think all but one pitched in the majors last year. Oh well. We'll see.

As always, I'd love for my pessimistic view to be proven wrong.

Skeptical of improvement. I'm waiting for a winner in 2010.

by tyger1147 on Dec 8, 2006 9:23 AM CST reply actions

i think

adding jennings and church makes this team the favorite to win the division. after the playoffs start, its for the most part a crapshoot. ask the mets. whoever is healthy and hot at the time wins.
i think adding jennings give the cubs a deep, solid rotation that can withstand an injury. i think adding church give the cubs an inexpensive center fielder with power that would offset the loss of jones, and give the cubs a left-handed bat to break up some of the power lefties.

lineup

soriano
murton (wishful thinking)
lee
ramirez
church
barrett
derosa
izturis

rotation

zambrano
jennings
lilly
hill
prior

that sounds pretty good to me.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 8, 2006 10:29 AM CST up reply actions

I don't know...

Cardinals aren't done yet. If they resign Suppan and resign and get a productive Mulder, I think they are still the ones to beat. If they resign Marquis and Weaver and get Miguel Batista, then obviously they stink.

Soriano --- Eckstein
Murton --- Kennedy
Lee --- Pujols
Ramirez --- Edmonds
Church --- Rolen
Barrett --- Duncan
DeRosa --- Encarnacion
Izturis --- Molina

Zambrano --- Carpenter
Jennings --- Suppan
Hill --- Mulder
Lilly --- Reyes
Miller --- Batista

I don't know. Wouldn't say either team is the "favorite". Maybe the Cardinals, just because they are a "winner". I'm not in favor of trading two pitching prospects and the best free-agent signing last year (in terms of production relative to contract) for a second-place team and more questions.

But I'm weird like that. I obviously don't have the answers.

Skeptical of improvement. I'm waiting for a winner in 2010.

by tyger1147 on Dec 8, 2006 11:08 AM CST up reply actions

i think

that cubs rotation is better top to bottom than the cards. and if lee is healthy the cubs lienup is better also.
but everything seems to work out for the cardinals and not for us, so i guess they're always the favorites.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 8, 2006 11:12 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah...

maybe. I don't know. Numbers could say which "should" be better. Time will tell which is better. The difference being, of course, that we would have to trade to fill our two remaining "holes" while they would pay for it. To each his own. Who knows? I'm not 100% lost yet. Just skeptical. Hell, I mean, if Prior comes back 100% at any point next year and Zambrano takes that "next step" and gets the walks under 75 and Rich Hill comes out at a 4:1 K:BB ratio... Ya know. Who knows?

Skeptical of improvement. I'm waiting for a winner in 2010.

by tyger1147 on Dec 8, 2006 12:56 PM CST up reply actions

Rocco

I know this is a little sick, but I had a dream last night that the Cubs traded for Rocco Baldelli. Now I'm really pulling for him just so I can believe I have mystical powers. In all honesty, he woudn't be all too bad. Not quite sure what TB would be asking for, but it could be an interesting deal. He's only making a couple mil, so we might have to send them some money along with Sir Jacque, but money is something we seem to have enough of. I'm in favor of this deal if all we have to give up is Jones and someone like Mateo. He is a righty though....

I also think it would be great to be able to sit in the bleachers and yell "Allright Rocco!" (a la Eddie Murphy in Raw).

MURTON!!! - just trying to help his karma so we keep him.

by 26.2cubfan on Dec 8, 2006 10:28 AM CST reply actions

i had a dream

that i got into a fight with a gila monster last night. i wish i had more dreams about baseball. or sex. anything but gila monsters.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 8, 2006 10:30 AM CST up reply actions

I had one

about doing yardwork recently. I'm jealous of the gila monster.

by NO100 on Dec 8, 2006 11:06 AM CST up reply actions

I frequently

dream in Auto CAD

I'll take any of the above over a world of drafted multi-color lines

Lilly!

by flyball on Dec 8, 2006 11:10 AM CST up reply actions

Me too.

I wish I had more dreams about baseball. I wish I had more dreams of any kind because I don't dream very much.

The one dream I had about baseball was this year at the All-Star break. Z was in it obviously, and I had these special passes and I could go around everywhere and follow and talk to Z all the time. He was supposed to take me to meet Johan, but then I woke up. :(

I knew I was dreaming though because I remember saying multiple times that it was too good to be true, but thankfully my dream still continued for a while.

I also had a dream a few weeks ago that I was at a USC-Michigan State football game. I don't even watch college football. It was weird. USC lost by a touchdown in my dream, BTW.

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Dec 8, 2006 4:56 PM CST up reply actions

Baldelli would be nice.

But it would take a lot more than Jacque Jones and Mateo to get him. In which case you should just go nuts and get Carl Crawford, who is even better then Rocco.

And if Baldelli is available I guarantee you Crawford is availble, despite what Tampa may be saying.

Farnsworth!

by Teamsleep on Dec 8, 2006 10:47 AM CST up reply actions

i think

if julie is slow getting her off-base diary in, we get to choose what goes in her ipod for today.

julies ipod:

can't remember who sings it: macarana
aqua: barbie girl
eddie murphy: party all the time
billy ray cyrus: achy breaky heart
rednecks: cotton eyed joe

a nice up-beat selection for a happy friday. jam on, julie. jam on.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 8, 2006 10:41 AM CST reply actions

It's like you looked into my soul

and found the 5 songs I hate the most. You so get me.

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Dec 8, 2006 10:58 AM CST up reply actions

What?

No Don Johnson and "Heartbeat?"

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Dec 8, 2006 10:58 AM CST up reply actions

Substitute

"She's like the Wind" by Patrick Swayze for barbie girl, and you're golden....

MURTON!!! - just trying to help his karma so we keep him.

by 26.2cubfan on Dec 8, 2006 12:57 PM CST up reply actions

Get the F#ck outta here!!!!

I use Party All the Time as my go-to mock song too.....lol....

Great minds.....

Check out my daily baseball blog at MLB-threeSIXTYfive

by TheBeerBaron on Dec 8, 2006 10:59 AM CST up reply actions

rotoworld

says marquis is close to signing with the cubs. the good news is the article from the post-dispatch they linked to doens't sound quite as certain.
i still feel like its inevitable at this point. yuck

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 8, 2006 11:04 AM CST reply actions

Ryan Church sucks

If Hendry subtracts Jacque Jones and adds Ryan Church, I'm going to be pissed off.

I'm already sick over the bizarre signing of Daryl Ward. What's Lou Piniella supposed to do with that piece of garbage? The guy can barely play 1st base.

Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I READ YOUR BOOK !!!

by BlueMike on Dec 8, 2006 11:40 PM CST reply actions

You'll

complain about anything. What's new. Church doesn't suck. Tell me how he sucks? Give some reasons for a change. Church has just as good of range as Jones. Church ACTUALLY can hit lefties unlike Jones. He had an 800+ OPS against both righties and lefties. He get's on base a lot, which if memory serves correctly we had a problem with last year. He'll hit 20+ homers. He has a much higher slugging percentage than Jones. He takes walks, something Jones rarely does.

by Macy on Dec 8, 2006 11:45 PM CST up reply actions

I don't know why...

...I continue to frustrate myself by reading your posts.

Hendry may not have much of a choice with Jones. If Jones wants out and isn't going to be happy next year, Hendry would do the team a favor by moving him. And Church doesn't "suck", which you would know if you bothered to do a little research. But your history here precludes that possibility.

PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 1:19 AM CST up reply actions

And FWIW...

... Ward has not officially been signed yet. And if he is, he'll be a far better bench player than John Mabry, who he would be replacing.

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2006 4:39 AM CST up reply actions

Yep,

he sure is better than Mabry.

by Macy on Dec 9, 2006 6:57 AM CST up reply actions

I'll agree with that

Ward, off the bench, is a decent signing.

PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 10:11 AM CST up reply actions

Jason Marquis

If the Cubs sign him to anything more than a minor league contract and six months worth of free oil changes at Jiffy Lube, I'm going to blow a gasket.

I'd rather trot Les Walrond out to the mound that Marquis.

Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I READ YOUR BOOK !!!

by BlueMike on Dec 8, 2006 11:42 PM CST reply actions

I'd rather

have Shawn Dunston on the mound than Marquis.

by Macy on Dec 8, 2006 11:46 PM CST up reply actions

Well...

... I think Marquis is a better hitter than Dunston.

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2006 4:38 AM CST up reply actions

I agree

except with the the Walrond part. Marshall/Guzman, yes.

Up next, trade Jones for a krappy pitcher and sign Cliff Floyd. Oyyy Boyyy.

by escapegoat on Dec 9, 2006 12:37 AM CST up reply actions

rocco

you want rocco????try rich hill.theriot,and marshall.the rays are very stubborn and difficult to deal with.but that would probably get it done.

by NOMAR on Dec 9, 2006 5:09 AM CST reply actions

Only Marshall & Hill are keepers...

the others are tradeable. (If you can anybody to take them.)

by Smooth Jazz Man San Diego on Dec 9, 2006 9:19 PM CST reply actions

As I've said...

I'd trade Marshall for Church.

PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 9:20 PM CST up reply actions

So would I.

See! We agree!

by Al Yellon on Dec 10, 2006 4:09 AM CST up reply actions

Really.

No way I trade away the potential of a 25 year old Lefty starting pitcher who showed much promise (should've been in AAA)in his first season in MLB and in an insane market for SP, who is cheap, for a stop gap CF who's just wearing the grass in for Pie. No way.

I sign Lofton if the Nat's want Marshall for Church.

crap, crap, crap, crap, crap, crap!!!!!

by escapegoat on Dec 10, 2006 5:45 AM CST up reply actions