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Saturday Rumor Central Diary + Marcus Giles and more

I liked Tomas's idea to make a diary each day to group every rumor under one roof, so I figured I'd make today's. I also figured I'd leave you with a few things to talk about...

There is some speculation that Marcus Giles will be non-tendered by the Braves due to tepid trade interest from other teams (and the Braves really want/need to dump salary). You can read about that here (in the middle of the article):

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/printedition/2006/12/08/sptbraves1208a.html

IMO, I would shoot for Giles even if they don't non-tender him (go for a trade). I know we just picked up DeRosa, but Giles is really a significant upgrade (3 years younger, career OPS about 80 points higher), and given this year's market, keeping DeRosa as a utility man isn't THAT ridiculous (we can always trade him near the trade deadline when teams are desperate if we want to dump salary). Even in a worst case scenario if Giles has a down year like last year, or if he gets injured, we still have a highly competent backup to take his place. To me, this is a no-brainer, but knowing the Cubs, I don't see them acting on this. I'm actually kinda surprised that no team is interested enough in Giles to trade for him...unless there is something I don't know about him, of course...he seems like a pretty solid option at second base to me.

In other news...

If the reports are true, and the Cubs actually do pick up Jason Marquis, I might have to burn Jim Hendry in Effigy and turn in my cub fan membership card. This guy is league average AT BEST, and wasn't anywhere close to league average last season. Paying more than 9 million per year (as reports have said) to this little league caliber pitcher is completely asinine. I would be happier if they just saved their money, and started ANY of the young guys we had pitching last year, sans Les Walrond (although I believe he left) than sign Marquis. Hell, I would rather we have Biz Markie pitch  than Jason Marquis.

If Jim is dumb enough to pay 9 million a year for Marquis, why doesn't he just save that, and open his purse (its not a purse, its a european carry-all!) and blow 17-18 million per year on a number 2/3 like Zito (of whom I am not a big fan, but he is lightyears ahead of Marquis, talentwise). Even if Zito decides he doesn't want to play in Chicago, we'd still save the 9 million per year on a Marquis contract, and we could just have Marshall/Guzman/Ryu/Mateo/anyone but Marquis pitch.

Soriano's contract might be an albatross in 5 or 6 years, but its truly rare when you can have an instant albatross--unfortunately, in contract terms, Marquis's albatross of a contract won't get up and fly away (it will be more like a fat penguin with two broken legs and a learning disability).

Anyway, my rant is over. Discuss, and post saturday's rumors here.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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The St. Louis newspaper......
St.Louis today is reporting that we did sign Marquis to a 3 year 28 million dollar deal. WTF is Hendry doing?
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!! Get MANNY!!!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Dec 9, 2006 3:16 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm out
fuck the cubs. I'm done with them. This is the stupidest signing of the offseason. This makes the angels' contract for sarge junior look brilliant. I will NOT be buying tickets to ANY games this year, and I'm currently debating about whether I have the patience to watch them at all.

To put it mildly, I'm furious. There is a reason why   paying 9 million dollars per year for a guy who had an ERA north of 6 the year before is completely unprecedented...

I guess Hendry was lonely in the hospital, so he decided it would be fun to give me an ulcer, and get me in there too. Damn you, sir.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 3:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure if its true or not......
I can't find any confirmation of it anywhere else.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!! Get MANNY!!!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Dec 9, 2006 3:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just can't even begin to understand why...
they would even consider paying him this much money. He's worth 3 million a year, TOPS (even in this market). We have a PLETHORA of young pitchers that can do at least as well, or (more likely) better than Marquis for league minimum. Honestly, there are just SO MANY better options for millions less.

Plus, we have a lot of talented pitchers near major league ready. If we have four signed pitchers in 2 or 3 years (at least Z, Lilly, Hill, and Marquis), where are veal, gallagher, and our other young pitchers going to fit in if we can't unload these albatross contracts (lilly and Marquis, but mostly Marquis).

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 3:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is beyond
idiotic. Marquis couldn't even get another team to offer him any kind of deal period. Nobody even offered him a one year one million deal. This dude is going to make over 8 million a year. Now, when Gallagher is ready for our rotation in 2008, there won't be a spot for him. There won't be a spot for Veal in 2008 or 2009 when he's ready. Jesus christ, I'd rather give Guzman, Marshall, and even Mateo a chance before Marquis. This will be one of the worst signings in history. Hell we might as well just trade all our good pitching prospects, because they'll all be blocked by Marquis.

by Macy on Dec 9, 2006 6:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You are...
... overreacting.

Maybe one or more of them could be traded by then, for help in other areas. That's one good reason to develop prospects -- so they can bring quality major league players in trade.

Maybe by then Wade Miller and/or Mark Prior will have totally blown out, and there will be a slot.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 7:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Or...
One of the guys blocking them could be traded or dumped.  Not having a spot in the rotation for a guy who might be ready in a season and a half is NO reason to to make a deal you think will improve your team THIS season.
MURTON!!! - just trying to help his karma so we keep him.

by 26.2cubfan on Dec 9, 2006 2:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you'll be back
they always come back
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Dec 9, 2006 4:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...
... that $9M for 3 years is ridiculous for Marquis.

I also think that giving up your fandom of a team because of this is ridiculous. It's the marketplace that's gone crazy, but this shouldn't kill your love for the game or for your team.

And, it is possible that Marquis will recover his 2004-05 form, in which case he is a better pitcher than Ted Lilly.

Finally, there is NO independent confirmation of this signing -- nothing on any other news site, nor on the Cubs website. I will see if I can find out more.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 4:23 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm not giving up my fandom
I'm just too disgusted with them (if this signing happens) to watch them, because I don't like torturing myself. I wouldn't be giving up my desire to see the cubs win, or my support for the team...I just don't think I have the patience to follow them.

Not that its really any of your business anyway. Whether or not I give up my fandom, and my reasoning  for doing that is a personal choice. As I've told you before, I think its ridiculous that you give them your money even though they are relentlessly shitty. We should probably agree to refrain from vocally judging each other's choices in regard to fandom.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 4:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, no problem.
Frankly, I like what Hendry's done this offseason, and I think it's premature to judge this club on the basis of a rumored signing that has not been confirmed elsewhere.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 4:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough
I'll give hendry a slight break, since the market is terrible this offseason, but I'm not really thrilled with him. I'm still not convinced that he couldn't have gotten Soriano for cheaper, I don't like the DeRosa pickup, he should have gone for lugo to dump Izturis, if he does pick up Marquis it projects to be an awful move etc.

I will say that the Ramirez contract he negotiated is one of the best moves of hie entire tenure (but only if they make this team a competitor--otherwise it was a waste).

One of my biggest problems with Hendry's offseason is actually that he refused to seek trade offers for felix pie. I would have tried to send Pie to Florida  for Olsen, or Johnson (and there are probably other options if he included Patterson--who is overrated). Obviously, I'm not privy to the dealings of the GMs, but if I had to guess, I DO believe that moving Pie (or at least using him to headline a trade) COULD have netted us a better pitcher than Lilly and definitely Marquis. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I really don't think so.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 4:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't be so sure...
... that trading possibilities are over just because the winter meetings are. Remember, Jacque Jones has gone on public record as wanting to be dealt.

When this has happened under Hendry (good example: Todd Walker), Hendry goes out of his way to accomodate the player.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 5:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

First of all
this  romor is nor cofirmed and secondly this could be a perfect scenario for a second dealing to another club. hOW about Hill and marquis for vernon wells and a minor leaguer.
THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Dec 9, 2006 4:24 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

no way
The Cubs are much shorter on starting pitching than offense, and starting pitching is at much more of a premium right now. Trading a guy making league minimum, who also might be one of our best starters is a bad idea when our rotation is already so weak.

Most importantly, Wells is going to be a FA after this season. If we really want him, we can pay for him then. Giving up that much for a player rental is foolish.

ALSO, I'm fairly certain that since Marquis is a FA, we couldn't sign and trade him. We'd have to wait several months (I forget how long).

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 4:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How in the heck is
anybody still awake in Chi land
I live on mountain time and even now it is hard for mw to post.

I made a bet earlier that the carolina panthwers would make the playoffs.

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Dec 9, 2006 4:27 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I got back from a party
Its the joy of college.
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 4:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What party is not
This party was dedicated to all the seniors who are graduating mid-semester.

Lucky bastards.....

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Dec 9, 2006 4:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wish that there
could be a true meeting of al the BCB posters because I think that all the posters would be surprised who the people are that are really posting......
Regardless, I always get the feeling that anything that I post will get read by somebody who
THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Dec 9, 2006 4:58 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I sure hope
the report was wrong. I rather have Marmol/Guzman/Mateo/Prior fill the fifth hole in the rotation.
Goodness, mad money thrown around. If Marquis is signed for this, they must have put some other liquid in Hendrys I V !! Please be not true.

Just got back ST. Kitts, wonderful island.

Throw out your Gold Teeth and see how they Roll

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Dec 9, 2006 7:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't mind
this so much if the deal was for a LOT less money.  I find this report very hard to believe.  I guess we just have to wait and see if this is true.  

If it is true, so be it.  Marquis is a 200 inning pitcher, and he did have those two 10+ run "save the bullpen" outings last season.  Like Al said, at his best he is a bit better than Lilly.  

by nevadadave on Dec 9, 2006 8:02 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thank you!
At last, a voice of reason on this possible signing.

From what I hear, signing Marquis is a definite possibility, but the money doesn't seem like it's going to be that much. The Cubs, apparently, are the only team out there for him -- so why compete against ourselves?

As far as the two 10+ run "take one for the team" outings are concerned, if you take those two outings off his record, it becomes:

184.1 IP, 105 ER, 14-14 record, 5.12 ERA

Whereas Ted Lilly's record in 2006 was:

181.2 IP, 87 ER, 15-13 record, 4.31 ERA

Marquis doesn't look quite as bad now, does he?

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 8:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

for one
you can't just take out two starts because they were bad. second, 5.12 ERA in the nl central is pretty poor, whereas a 4.3 ERA in the AL east is solid. lastly, when did ted lilly become the benchmark against what all other signings are compared to see if they are good? iirc, you yourself questioned the logic of the lilly signing.
DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 9, 2006 9:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I repeat, as I have said before:
Marquis was a solid mid-rotation starter in 2004 and 2005. I choose to believe that 2006 was an aberration and that, at age 28, he can still resurrect a decent major league career.

Obviously, you don't. We'll simply have to agree to disagree.

All I was trying to say is that apart from those two starts, he wasn't a 6+ ERA pitcher. That seems clear.

And if you're saying 5.12 in the NL Central is pretty poor, shouldn't you be admitting that the Cubs shouldn't be throwing Sean Marshall et. al. out there? All of those rookies had ERA's that high, or higher.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 9:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
He does.
PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 9:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just out of curiousity...
Al, why is that there is a "voice of reason" only when someone agrees with you? Isn't it possible that there are two competing views that are "reasonable"? By stating that a statement is a "voice of reason" which you've done in various forms ONLY when that opinion agrees with you, you are implying that everything else is illogical or unreasonable. Am I overreading the implication? I mean, if you only say something is reasonable or not overreacting when it agrees with you, then by contrast someone who doesn't agree with you is unreasonable... which seems, sorry to say unreasonable. It seems perfectly possible to me that people could have different opinions on things and both be quite reasonable.

Anyway, I just think it's funny how when you seem to be in a minority in an argument when someone comes in and agrees with you, all of a sudden, you're like, "Finally, someone with some sense around here!" Not totally a bad thing, just SEEMS a little disingenuous. Just sayin'. I laugh when I read those threads, regardless of content.

Skeptical of improvement. I'm waiting for a winner in 2010.

by tyger1147 on Dec 10, 2006 1:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dammit...
Please don't take my question or critique as a bash on you, Al. I didn't read the rest of these comments that got out of hand before I posted. Sometimes I get fed (and have with you), but if I'm not attacking, my questions/statements are purely for information purposes. I did not mean to "jump in" on this argument against you. Please don't take it that way. I understand how similar it seems, and thus, understand if you do. But please don't.
Skeptical of improvement. I'm waiting for a winner in 2010.

by tyger1147 on Dec 10, 2006 1:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Your point is well taken.
I had a perfectly reasonable argument with gravedigger yesterday, there was no way either of us was going to change the other's mind, but I did (and do) see his point. Look, maybe I'm wrong about Marquis and he'll suck again, which would not only make this a horrid deal, but would likely put the Cubs in last place again. I'm always willing to listen to reasonable arguments.

by Al on Dec 10, 2006 1:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well
some people out there owe me an apology. unfortunately, the idiocy of hendry is all-too predictable. also predictable is that al is already justifying the signing.

there is no way we are getting giles. hendry already paid derosa, who is a below average hitter with no natural position, starter money to play second base and block eric patterson should he ever be ready. giles would have been a fantastic option, and since we have a surplus of bullpen arms probably would've been readily available. of well.

this also likely means that jones will either be kept, or traded for crap. my guess is he's traded for crap, and we sacrifice much the power we added in the soriano deal by signing lofton to play center field.

i had convinced myself to give hendry another chance with the hopes that many or most of his terrible moves the last few years were just baker's influence. i don't think so anymore. he's just a bad gm. he's spent over 250 million dollars and the team is marginally better, and most of the people on the team now have huge salaries and are likely headed for decline, not improvement. its takes a special kind of stupid to do that.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 9, 2006 8:26 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well..
... suit yourself with your negativity, but this team is already significantly better than it was in 2006, and in a mediocre NL, can indeed contend.

"Justify" the signing? Yes. Jason Marquis is a good pitcher who had one bad year. Is he worth $9M a year? Probably not, and spewing steam out of your ears because of a rumor just doesn't make sense to me.

If this is another implication that I am "spouting company line", I resent it, because this is my opinion and mine alone. You should know better.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 9:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

One bad year?
In six years, he's only had two winning seasons (one where he was a staggering 1-0). In only three of those years has he posted an ERA below five. I appreciate your optimism, but outside of one year Marquis has hardly been a good pitcher.

Also, when people keep saying all the foolish spending is the market's fault and not Jim Hendry's, please realize that he's largely responsible for making the market as insane as it is.

by JDay on Dec 9, 2006 9:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As bad as you say he is
He won 14 games last year and has had 10+ wins the last three years. How many 14 win pitchers have the cubs had lately?
I can't believe Al put Rick Wilkins in the top 100 cubs.

by diehardmark on Dec 10, 2006 9:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

wins mean very little
try using ANY of the stats that are less dependent on team performance. ERA+ (or even ERA) or VORP are all far better metrics. When measured by any of those methods, Marquis proves to be quite unworthy of anything remotely close to the contract he signed.

Plus, even if you do go by wins, he's also racked up an unbelievable amount of losses in the last few seasons (on a winning team too). He just gets a lot of decisions. Even with the luxury of pitching for the cards, he's still 3 games under 500 over the past two seasons (with a whopping 30 losses).

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 3:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm glad...
you brought up the losses.  If people want to look at wins, they should look at losses too.
"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Dec 10, 2006 4:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Save the commentary...
...your scouting skills are quite lacking.  Soriano is hardly average and I'm not even going to discuss that further with you.  The rest of them do indeed make the team better no matter what you believe.

But this really is a comment to you concerning Marcus Giles.  People are wondering why nobody wants him?  Has anyone ever watched him play 2B?  He's a right-handed Todd Walker without Walker's power.  Because he's slowing down, he's exactly that, a poor-man's Todd Walker.  No real surprise that nobody wants him, least of all the Braves.  Maybe he belongs in San Diego to platoon with Walker himself.  That is why Giles is drawing no interest.  Watch the game once in awhile and quit complaining.

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Dec 9, 2006 11:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It is too bad...
...that you are unwilling to discuss Soriano, because you might learn a lot.  For example, last year he was worth about 10 wins for the Nationals - not bad!  But the previous two years, he was worth about 5 wins a piece, not so great.  And that's in that great hitter's ballpark in Arlington!

His EQAs the last three years: .260 (average), .273 (slightly better than average), and .300, not too shabby.  Career, .278, about average.

Soriano's OPS+ was 132 last year - meaning he was 32% better than the rest of the league.  But in the previous years, it was 110 and 98 - a little above and a little below.  Career, 115, so he's about 15% better than average.

Before last year, his career high OBP was .338.  Not much better than average.

My thoughts looking at those stats just briefly are that he is, among many things, a little better than average.

PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 12:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hate to be a stickler
But aren't win shares adjusted for parks?  Meaning the numbers he put up on Arlington have nothing to do with the home field?  

I agree with your asessment otherwise.  I just choose to believe that Sori is excellent and will prove a value to this team now that he has some stability in his career.  He seems to me like a guy who was genuinely unhappy in TX and that's why he didn't really put up numbers.  I like the numbers he put up in NY once he got established there.  Let's just hope we can keep him happy....

MURTON!!! - just trying to help his karma so we keep him.

by 26.2cubfan on Dec 9, 2006 2:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right
and that just further illustrates that he's just slightly above average.

I also hold out a lot of hope and think that he'll put up some good numbers, but it is my instinct, not numbers, that tell me that.

I was just more or less taking issue with the fact that someone will say something like "he's excellent, and how dare you say otherwise, and it isn't debatable" when it clearly is.

PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 2:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed 100%
and I put this up to laziness.  If you look only at his headline numbers you think, "wow, this guy is great.  Look at those homers, and steals too, he's a great athelete!"

Well, he is a great athelete, and he does have some nice power.  But I would love to see continued improvement on obp, cut down on the strike outs, and continued improvement in the field once we pick a spot for him.  If he's able to do this, then we'll be able to call him a great player.  Until then, his career has proven him this far to be an above average player.  

None of this will stop me from cheering my head off for him at 1060 W Addison....

MURTON!!! - just trying to help his karma so we keep him.

by 26.2cubfan on Dec 9, 2006 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep
I hope for a Sammy Sosa-like development in terms of plate disciple, hopefully without the Sammy Sosa-like development in terms of ego.
PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 3:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Unlike Sosa...
... Soriano will not have to be "the guy" with the Cubs -- I think that title still belongs to Derrek Lee. As the co-#2 with Aramis Ramirez, that might take pressure off both of them.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 3:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree
It is much more fun when we agree, Al.  Just come over to my side about Marquis and everything will be OK.
PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!
Not a chance!

You are cordially invited to sit with us in the bleachers on any day Marquis pitches.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 3:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I'll come sit in the bleacher's with...
Al and the gang.

Get ready to see a man, for the first time in your life, actually pull his OWN hair out of his head by hand.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to
I plan on visiting my parents over the summer, so maybe I'll take the drive up on a day when he's pitching :)  I'll probably go out of my mind watching him get pounded, but it will be fun still, right?
PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 3:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It'll be great fun...
.. no matter who's pitching. You're both invited.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 3:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Your figures are way off re: Giles
"He's a right-handed Todd Walker without Walker's power"

The only correct part of that statement is that  he's righthanded. He has a career OPS OVER 800, and displays more power than walker on average. He also has a higher career OBP. Plus, he is ONLY 28.

Its a stupid comparison anyway, since Walker is no longer a cub. The player to whom you SHOULD be comparing Giles is Mark DeRosa (let me help you: he's a MUCH better option). All evidence points to the sad fact that DeRosa's last season was a career year (he's three years older than Giles). Giles, on the other hand, has consistently put up better numbers than DeRosa every year (with the exception of last season--probably just a down year).

This isn't even taking into account the fact that DeRosa was playing at one of the best hitters' parks in baseball (arlington) while Giles was playing at a pitchers' park in Atlanta.

Even if we did pick up Giles, and he played terribly, we still have a competent backup. I think this is DEFINITELY worth the risk. Currently, if DeRosa goes down, who steps in? Ronny Cedeno? NO THANK YOU! Actually, it would probably be Ryan Theriot, who is a decent option as a backup, but what evidence do we have that his success last year wasn't a fluke....I seem to remember Neifi hitting near .400 during his first few months with us in 2004 (although Theriot gave us a slightly larger sample size).

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 3:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Random and Irrelevant...
But I love Todd Walker.
MARQUIS! YES, MARQUIS!

by thekansasian on Dec 9, 2006 5:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Random and Irrelevant
But I love you because you love Todd Walker.

Unless you're a guy, in which case I only greatly admire you.

by VS on Dec 9, 2006 7:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rowand?
Since I was blasted for not checking diaries-I did check and see nothing on Aaron Rowand.  Has anyone posted any rumors about him?  I've got some.......

by jballgame on Dec 9, 2006 8:31 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Rowand
Well, I suppose it belongs on this thread.  ESPN reported earlier in the week that the Phils are shopping Aaron Rowand and the Sox and Cubs are interested.

Given the Sox already pulled the trigger on Freddy Garcia w/o Rowand included-I'd think we have a good shot.  The Phils have Shane Victorino as a backup to Rowand.

The Phillies are also desperate for relief help, and are looking to unload Lieber as well.  I don't know what it would take, but I would like a reliever + rookie pitcher to the Phils for Rowand.

Rowand only made $3.25MM in '06 (don't know what he gets in 07) and could very well post .280/.450/.800

Thoughts?

by jballgame on Dec 9, 2006 8:46 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Honestly?
I'd rather have Victorino, if he's available.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 8:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yea
victorino is good

by tbizzle83 on Dec 9, 2006 10:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
There was a long diary on this. If it happened earlier in the week, then just assume someone from the BCB base caught and posted it.
DUNSTON!

by thekansasian on Dec 9, 2006 11:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

nice sig
...way to take one for the team...
PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Dec 9, 2006 3:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My guess
The Cubs offered Jeff Suppan three years at $28 million.  They offered Jason Marquis one year at about $3 million plus incentives based on games started, that could bring his salary up to $9 million, plus options years that would vest if he makes a certain number of starts.  Then the St. Louis paper's source got these offers mixed up, since they were both for "ex-Cardinals pitchers".  

This is only a guess.  I would be OK with either of these deals.  If, instead, the reported deal is accurate, it is indeed the worst signing of the offseason.  

I don't think the Cubs will make any other major moves without making a decision on Jacque Jones.  Either he gets traded in the next week, or he is with the club in Spring Training.

The call of the Cub fan, c. 1893: "one long, ravaged, derisive yell...a cyclonic whoop!"

by zambranofan on Dec 9, 2006 9:05 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

i would have
no problem with that deal, but i'd be surprised if marquis would sign it, since all you have to be is medicore to get a 3 years/30 mil deal in this market.
DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 9, 2006 9:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Marquis
was pretty much the worst starting pitcher in the national league this past year. There's not a single team that has even offered him a one year one million deal. You have to be horrible not to get as least that small of a offer. Tampa Bay or the Nationals wouldn't even offer him that.

by Macy on Dec 9, 2006 9:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We know he wasn't THE worst...
...we can discern this pretty easily by just looking at our own staff.

In 2006, the year the Cubs pretty much crapped the bed. We threw a Double-AA starting rotation up against major league hitting, and as far as I can tell, we were getting close to the point where we considered throwing our new draft picks out there in August just to save the bullpen.

And we STILL found Glendon Rusch a phantom pitching injury in July.

Heck, in a year where we started LES WALROND, Jerome Williams couldn't get back to the majors.

by cwyers on Dec 9, 2006 11:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The best summary of the Horrors of 06 yet
May all the generations of Cub fans to come rise and call you blessed for so pithily summarizing one of the suckiest seasons of the Cubs I've ever seen ..
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Dec 9, 2006 4:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Watch
Jones get traded for garbage. Just the fact they were talking to the Orioles about trading Jones for a reserve player is a joke. If that happens Hendry needs to quit his job immediately. You have to seriously question his baseball knowledge if he does this. You know other GM's are laughing their asses off about how dumb of a GM he really is.

by Macy on Dec 9, 2006 9:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

why
cant we just get suppan i dont like this pickup very much.

by tbizzle83 on Dec 9, 2006 10:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Happy Birthday Sarah

Your birthday will now be known forever as "Jason Marquis Day".

As your buddy Adam Dunn would say:  grrrrrr.

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Dec 9, 2006 9:50 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Happy Birthday Sarah!
The Cubs gave her a bad birthday present.
"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Dec 9, 2006 9:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, that's not right
They gave her a birthday present -- the quality of which we will not know until next spring.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 9:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If it were my gift...
...I would return it.
PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 9:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Me too.
I bet Al would return it too, and he just won't admit it.
"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Dec 9, 2006 10:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nope...
... not only would I not return it, but I expect to open it and find a pleasant surprise inside.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 10:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd return it...
...and pay a little extra to upgrade models.
PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 10:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That
pleasant surprise being that Marquis has failed his physical and can't sign with the Cubs.

by Macy on Dec 9, 2006 10:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
THAT would be a pleasant surprise at this point.
PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 10:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can I...
get a pleasant surprise and get a picture of a shirtless baseball player posted? Please?

I have one that you should definitely post.

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Dec 9, 2006 10:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think
someone gave me a birthday card like that

actually I think I got it twice

Lilly!

by flyball on Dec 9, 2006 12:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Awww, thanks for remembering
I have people I consider soul mates that didn't remember my birthday  ;)

Yeah, I feel shocked.  But look on the bright side, now Al will have TONS of pun opportunities.
Like....

Does this signing suck?  Yep, you hit the Marquis on that one.

or,

Marquis this one down in the record books.  Cubs make mistake and spend too much on a tired arm.  

WOODY!!!!

by Sarah Hope on Dec 13, 2006 2:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh
Well at least he is a good hitter.  Perhaps he can try to make up for all of the runs he gives up himself.
PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 10:09 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

How ...
Does this affect the bucks avaliable for Zambrano?  I hope this prank isn't taking up the monies necessary to keep Z around ...
Coming Soon: The Martha Stewart Collection's Mark Prior "Signature" Towel ...

by Littlerock Rynofan on Dec 9, 2006 10:12 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Z is going to be soo rich...
he should have scholarships for his fans, so then I could win one. :)

I'm worried about Z's contract.  I don't know why, but I'm worried.

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Dec 9, 2006 10:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Julie
It doesn't matter how busy you are.  Can't you see how badly we need an Off Base diary today?!

;)

PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 10:19 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Marquis
I think the money would have been better saved. Hand the rotation spot to one of the injury junkies/rookies and let them have a month or two to improve. If not, then use this money and try to get something done midseason.

I'm neutral on this signing...most likely because I'm an idiot. Marquis will return to 2004 form, Prior will return to 2003 form, Hill will remain at late 2006 form, Lilly will gain a form that allows him to be above .500...

DUNSTON!

by thekansasian on Dec 9, 2006 11:33 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Alright, When is this
Sean Marshall for Ryan Church deal going down. Because, now I want Church on the CUBS....and I want him NOW!!!!!!

Just in case there are some of us that haven't familiarized ourselves with Church's stats......here are his 2006 numbers...in 70 games (196 AB)

.276/.366/.526, 10 HR, 22 R, 35 RBI, 6 SB......

Giving him a HR/AB ratio of 19.6 (obviously), RBI/AB of 5.6, RUNS/AB of 8.9......

Translated through 600 AB......Church would have (supposedly) hit....

31 HR
107 RBI
67 R
20 SB (accounting for 650 plate appearances, due to number of walks)

and he's a lefty....

NOW JIMBO, NOW!!!!

Check out my daily baseball blog at MLB-threeSIXTYfive

by TheBeerBaron on Dec 9, 2006 11:49 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Not only that
TheBeerBaron, he hits lefties just as well as righties. What jumps out the most about him, is that half his hits were extra-base hits.

by Macy on Dec 9, 2006 1:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But, but ...
the young pitching prospects.  The Cubs can't trade them.  I'm with you on this.  If the Cubs can get Church for Marshall, do it.

by rlpete on Dec 9, 2006 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.
And will you give Hendry a break? Sheesh, the man probably came within a couple of hours of dying of a heart attack; he's been told to take it easy for a while. Give him a few days to rest, at least.

by Al on Dec 9, 2006 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hendry
his signing of marquis just gave thousands of cubs fans cardiac issues

just when we save one with angioplasty... he goes out and puts thousands more in danger

i guess this was the Big LH bat he was referring to

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 9, 2006 4:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This could
be one of Hendry's best trades he's ever made. Trading Marshall for a guy who could hit 25hrs, and drive in 90rbi's would make my day. The dude can rake.

by Macy on Dec 10, 2006 12:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Big LH Bat...
The obvious choices are out there and unsigned...

Jeromy Burnitz- 37 and unsigned
Steve Finley- 41 and unsigned
Todd Hollandsworth- 34 and unsigned
Ryan Klesko- 35 and unsigned
Matt Stairs- 38 and unsigned

And Shawn Estes and Jose Hernandez are still out there as well...

<Sarcasm>

On a serious note, other FA's still out there (as you can see, I was checking the FA tracker) that drew interest to me (not necessarily in relation to the Cubs):

Todd Walker, Mark Mulder, Brad Radke, Troy Percival, Chan Ho Park, Kenny Lofton, Aubrey Huff, Keith Foulke, Eric Gagne, and Octavio Dotel.

MARQUIS! YES, MARQUIS!

by thekansasian on Dec 9, 2006 6:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Let's see....
...Todd Walker agreed to Arbitration with the Padres.

Brad Radke retired.

Troy Percival retired.

Keith Foulke should retire.

Dotel signed with the Royals.

crap, crap, crap, crap, crap, crap!!!!!

by escapegoat on Dec 9, 2006 9:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"if"
IF marquis can pitch like his '04 year,IF prior is healthy,IF hill can win 12 games,IF miller is healthy,IF lilly can be good on a new team and win 12-15 games,Big Z Will get his wins!i would feel a whole lot better if we would have gone after a "PROVEN"guy like a zito or schmidt!marquis of all guys!wow!hell why not let wood start at this point certainly couldn't be any worse than marquis!

by cubz409 on Dec 9, 2006 6:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Lilly + Marquis = Schmidt !!!!!
I don't have huge issues on the Lilly signing, but why spend 7 Million a year on Marquis when we have pitchers on hand who are comparable.

If Hendry took Marquis' 7 million and added it to Lilly's 10 million, we could be looking at Schmidt or Zito. If the market for good to great players is crazy, so be it. You have to have good players. It is idiotic to throw any sort of money after easily replaceable players.

by Rotodaddy on Dec 9, 2006 10:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Once again..
... and this has been stated elsewhere, but is worth repeating:

Jason Schmidt was NOT going to come to the Cubs unless Hendry paid far more than $17 million a year. He wanted to stay on the west coast, and has a personal relationship with some people in the Dodger organization.

This "add up the Marquis/Lilly dollars and you get Schmidt" simply doesn't wash.

by Al on Dec 10, 2006 4:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe, maybe not........
Either way the money could have been put to much better use. Marquis is and has been almost every year a below average major league pitcher. So he gives the Cubs some innings......Don't you want most of a team's innings to come from good pitchers?? My point stull stands. It is idiotic to spend any type of serious money on a pitcher like Marquis, when we have guys who are just as good(bad) as him and might even have potential to be better.

by Rotodaddy on Dec 10, 2006 4:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What better use?
And don't give me the "add the dollars" argument again. As I said, it just doesn't wash.

Further, Marquis was a GOOD pitcher in 2004 and 2005, or at least a little better than average. He is, IMO, the equal of Gil Meche, who's getting twice as many dollars.

My opinion, as I have repeatedly stated, is that he will be a pleasant surprise. If I'm wrong, I'll freely admit it. I hope the rest of you will if you are.

by Al on Dec 10, 2006 5:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what exactly do you base your optimism on?
because no offense (seriously), but it seems like warrantless, blind hope.

Although I do agree with you that the salaries of lilly + Marquis do not equal schmidt, is it not also true that we have several pitchers that can probably  put up comparable (if not better) numbers as Marquis for league minimum? If you examine Marquis's contract in terms of marginal utility, it becomes evident just how stupid that signing was. Going on current projections, Al, this contract is a colossal waste of money. I'm happy that the Cubs are spending, but spending stupidly is never welcome as far as I'm concerned. If they really wanted to make a bold move, they could trade for a pitcher by making a deal headlined by Pie. This Marquis deal is dumb any way you look at it.

Maybe I'll be eating my words at the end of the year, but going by odds, that probably won't happen, unfortunately. Looking at Marquis's stats,  his groundout ratio has been trending downward since 2004 (he's practically GO/FO neutral now, even though he was once an extreme groundball pitcher), which leads me to believe he's having trouble with his sinker. If Duncan couldn't help him, then I'm not sure Rothschild is exactly the man for the job. Also, he gave up copious homers last season. That can only get worse coming into our launchingpad of a ballpark.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 5:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think...
... your Duncan/Rothschild comparison is where you're missing something.

Again, yes, Duncan has a wonderful reputation. Could he help Sidney Ponson? Nope. Here's where personality clashes may come into account. Maybe Duncan and Marquis just didn't get along. Maybe Duncan missed something.

We'll just have to agree to disagree here. This isn't the greatest signing ever -- and anyone who, in the future, claims that I said so will be just plain wrong.

But neither is it a disaster. And it could be a pleasant surprise.

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. If not, I hope you will say you were wrong.

by Al on Dec 10, 2006 5:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I always admit when I'm wrong
but then again, I only bet when I have favorable odds...

Just because it CAN happen doesn't mean you should assume it WILL happen; especially when evidence points to the opposite. Can you give me any reasoning on why you have any optimism at all?

His peripheral stats have been trending poorly. His K/BB ratio is very poor, his K/9 was already subpar, and has been trending downward, his ERA has been rising, his GO/FO ratio has fallen SHARPLY (which is the most troubling stat to me--when a guy has 2 groundouts for every flyout, and then is neutral within a couple years, I see red flags), he's coming over to a team where fans will boo him much more than in STL (especially since most cubs fans are pissed off with this signing, and we already boo more than card fans), he's coming to a team with a pitching coach who has a less successful track record, and he's coming into a more hitter friendly park.

Is there something I'm missing? Why should I be optimistic at all?

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 5:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

However
I really hope you're right. I hope Marquis is good even more than I hope Lilly is good. Why? Because the Card fans have been dancing a joyful jig since we signed him.

If Marquis has a highly successful year, I'll be as happy as a schoolgirl. Since I go to U of I, I know a lot of card fans; one of my roommates is from st. louis. There is nothing sweeter than gloating in front of your friends.

I'll tell you what, Al. If your optimism turns out  to be warranted, I owe you a coke.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 6:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Despite the fact that two of us have...
...offered by buy Al a drink if we're wrong, I still believe Al will go thirsty this summer. ;)
PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 10, 2006 9:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Any Use is better honestly.
I'd rather pay Eric Gagne for a year. How about Tomo Ohka? Is Steve Trout still around??

 Just because the Cubs are playing to win in the near future doesn't mean you spend wildly just because there is a warm body to spend it on. I'm all for overpaying good players if that's what it takes, but pocket the money if all that is left is a dungheap. That's my only problem with the Cubs throwing around this money to win in a single offseason. If there is noone worthwhile to sign now, then hold the money and don't lock it up for three seasons. I'm pretty sure free agency will still exist next offseason. Could $21 million help then? If there is not a quality player to use it on now then don't spend it on one of last year's worst pitchers. I'm not even a fan of Marmol, Guzman, or Marshall, but I'd rate their chances to do something decent as better than Marquis'. Somewhere there is a limit to the payroll and spending 7 million on someone who is quite likely a bad pitcher uses up a big chunk. I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not going to act like it's a decent or even understandable move.

by Rotodaddy on Dec 10, 2006 2:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

big z
i cant see the cubs not resigning Z after all the money being put into this team.it should get done this spring though.you dont want a team like the yankees coming along at the end of the season and overwhelming him with a huge offer.plus you have to hope carlos wants to spend the next 5 years here. here,s hoping.

by NOMAR on Dec 10, 2006 4:29 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

al
disclaimer: i am not saying you are a corporate schill.

one of the reasons people get frustrated discussing things with you is that you will completely change your opinion about something if that's what the cubs want you to. for example, before marquis was signed, you said this about him:

"I would stay FAR away. I can't believe Marquis thinks he's worth that much.
For a small base plus incentives, I'd do it, but not for anything more."

then after the cubs signed him for 3/21, you cite how good a hitter he is, and say you think he'll revert back to 2004 form and be a real steal.

it was the same thing with baker, where you defended him and placed blame elsewhere until the moment he was fired, then said you changed your mind and that he was probably responsible for a lot of the cubs failures, and that hendry, who coincidentally wasn't fired, probably was corrupted by baker, and probably is still a pretty good gm.

you are perfectly willing to call "stat guys"  to task for supposedly not acknowledging the human aspects of the game, and only recognizing what can be measured on a stat sheet. however, you are not aware that you often are willing to accept whatever propaganda the cubs feed you distort your own ability to examine what they are doing.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 10, 2006 10:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I have to admit...
...I was curious about this too.  I was surprised to find us (Al) arguing about Marquis when it seemed like we'd just recently been arguing the same thing: 1 year low base + incentives OK, more than that not OK.  Why did you change your mind?
PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 10, 2006 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I have not changed my mind about...
... the length/amount of the contract. It's nuts.

But I like Marquis and I'm glad he's on the team. That's not inconsistent. As has been said elsewhere, once the team begins play on the field, the dollars don't matter. Only the performance does.

And tomas21 -- I'm going to say this only once more, and I don't know how else to drill this into your head, so I'm going to put it into big type so you cannot possibly miss it.

THE CUBS DO NOT TELL ME TO SAY ANYTHING. THEY NEVER HAVE AND THEY NEVER WILL. Do you get it now?

by Al on Dec 10, 2006 11:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Further...
... check my posts from last summer. I did defend Baker probably past the point where it was useful to do so, but I wrote IN JULY that it was time for him to go at the end of the season, which is exactly what happened.

Let's be clear, too: he wasn't fired. His contract expired and it was not renewed. There is a difference. Don't let your apparent personal hatred of the man color statements of fact.

by Al on Dec 10, 2006 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the fact that
you think there is a big difference, in this case, between getting fired and what happened to baker is another example of you believing whatever the cubs tell you.

i don't hate anyone. i think baker is a bad person and a terrible manager, but i don't hate him.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 10, 2006 11:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Did you read what I wrote?
I said I wasn't going to repeat it.

All I will say here is that you do not know Dusty Baker personally (I think that's a safe assumption), thus to say he's a bad person is just plain wrong.

Your opinion that he's a terrible manager is noted, and in fact, looking back I'd agree with you.

by Al on Dec 10, 2006 12:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Interpreting Tomas :-)
I believe he is not speaking about just what the Cubs tell Al, but all of us. I believe he's basically saying that he faults Al for buying the propaganda that is put out for everyone. I could be wrong but I don't think this is a case of the idiotic line that Al is an employee of the Cubs and propagates the company line.

by Rotodaddy on Dec 10, 2006 2:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And...
... that's not true either.

It IS true, as stated below and elsewhere, that I'm generally an optimistic person, wanting to think the best, until shown otherwise.

That's in opposition to many here who almost automatically naysay anything that the organization does. I can't and won't be that way.

by Al on Dec 10, 2006 5:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

tomas,
I'm curious as to why you think that the Cubs feed Al propoganda and he completely changes his mind if the Cubs want him to. No disrespect to you Al but tomas I think you think Al has more of an inside track with the Cubs than he actually does (if he has any at all).

He did have far more tolerance of Dusty than most of us did but I think Al is the type of person who is willing to give everyone a chance to succeed or fail and in Dusty's situtaion he aknolwedged he was wrong.

He said on here several times if he is wrong he will say so and he has said so.

COTTS!!!

by sue369 on Dec 10, 2006 2:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i am not
suggesting the cubs feed Al propaganda. i think the cubs churn out more propaganda to the public than most teams. Al seems to buy into it more than everyone. that's fine, he is not always open to the possibility that he and the cubs could be wrong.
and while he has admitted that he was wrong, its usually after the cubs have also reversed fields, such as in the baker situation. he was about the only one (besides bluemike) still in support of baker, despite overwhelming evidence of him being a terrible mananger, until it started trickling out through the media that his contract wouldn't be renewed after the season ended.
i didn't mean to turn this into a long debate, i just get frustrated with Al sometimes because in these situations where he agrees with cub decisions that most others don't, he can be kind of close-minded and snarky to those who disagree with him. if i didn't like al, i wouldn't get frustrated.
DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 10, 2006 5:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

tomas
Come on, buddy.

Like the rest of us, Al is entitled to change his mind. And, like most of us, he's probably guilty of wanting to believe the best of the organization; that when they promise us something, they genuinely have every intent of making it happen. This is the team we love; of course we want to believe that they know something we don't or that they have some ace up their sleeve. And there's nothing wrong with trying to make the more suicidal members of this site hold feel a bit better about some of these signings.

I hate this signing, but my opinion isn't going to change anything, we're stuck with Marquis. Might as well down the Kool Aid at this point and hope for the best. If he still sucks in June, we can all start bitching again.

I get sick of these attacks on Al. He's entitled to his opinion, he's entitled to change his mind. When he's been wrong, he's admitted it, which is more than many people on this site can say.

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Dec 10, 2006 2:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you...
... to both Sue and Julie for your support. Much appreciated.

by Al on Dec 10, 2006 4:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i will
support marquis, because he is on the team. but i won't pretend its a good signing just because the cubs did it.
DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 10, 2006 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you.
I will support him although not in the same way that I do the players I like.  I hope he succeeds, unless he plans to be like Jeff Weaver and be bad and then for some reason be good in the postseason.

How many of us would be thrilled if the Cardinals had kept Marquis? How many of us would be ripping the Astros or Pirates because they signed Marquis for this contract and not an incentive one?  It's a bad deal,  and it's for 3 years.  I really hope he does well, and if he doesn't at least he doesn't have a no trade clause.

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Dec 10, 2006 5:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that is so true
If the cardinals or astros signed marquis to the contract that we signed him for, I would probably still be laughing about it.

Instead, if I wasn't so incredibly manly, I'd be crying about this signing...

Who am I trying to kid. I'm sobbing like a three year old who stubbed his toe about this debacle.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 6:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not suggesting
that this is a good signing. As I said above, I hate it.

Al gets it from both sides on a daily basis for being a) too optimistic or b) not optimistic enough. I just don't see the need to get personal about it, that's all I was saying.

HENDRY!

by cubbiejulie on Dec 10, 2006 5:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cliff Floyd, the inevitable Cub
So when does the final piece of Hendry's master plan get executed? Tomorrow, next week, mid January?  
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I READ YOUR BOOK !!!

by BlueMike on Dec 10, 2006 6:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

probably right after he finishes...
locking up ronny cedeno to a five year/60 million dollar contract.
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 6:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
You know, Cedeno's OPS is .627, and that makes me sad.
PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Dec 10, 2006 6:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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Ticket Exchanges: General 2009 Ticket Exchange
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Ticket Exchanges: September 29-October 4 Homestand

Managing Editor

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Editorial Cartoonist

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Contributors

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