Saturday Rumor Central Diary + Marcus Giles and more
I liked Tomas's idea to make a diary each day to group every rumor under one roof, so I figured I'd make today's. I also figured I'd leave you with a few things to talk about...
There is some speculation that Marcus Giles will be non-tendered by the Braves due to tepid trade interest from other teams (and the Braves really want/need to dump salary). You can read about that here (in the middle of the article):
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/printedition/2006/12/08/sptbraves1208a.html
IMO, I would shoot for Giles even if they don't non-tender him (go for a trade). I know we just picked up DeRosa, but Giles is really a significant upgrade (3 years younger, career OPS about 80 points higher), and given this year's market, keeping DeRosa as a utility man isn't THAT ridiculous (we can always trade him near the trade deadline when teams are desperate if we want to dump salary). Even in a worst case scenario if Giles has a down year like last year, or if he gets injured, we still have a highly competent backup to take his place. To me, this is a no-brainer, but knowing the Cubs, I don't see them acting on this. I'm actually kinda surprised that no team is interested enough in Giles to trade for him...unless there is something I don't know about him, of course...he seems like a pretty solid option at second base to me.
In other news...
If the reports are true, and the Cubs actually do pick up Jason Marquis, I might have to burn Jim Hendry in Effigy and turn in my cub fan membership card. This guy is league average AT BEST, and wasn't anywhere close to league average last season. Paying more than 9 million per year (as reports have said) to this little league caliber pitcher is completely asinine. I would be happier if they just saved their money, and started ANY of the young guys we had pitching last year, sans Les Walrond (although I believe he left) than sign Marquis. Hell, I would rather we have Biz Markie pitch than Jason Marquis.
If Jim is dumb enough to pay 9 million a year for Marquis, why doesn't he just save that, and open his purse (its not a purse, its a european carry-all!) and blow 17-18 million per year on a number 2/3 like Zito (of whom I am not a big fan, but he is lightyears ahead of Marquis, talentwise). Even if Zito decides he doesn't want to play in Chicago, we'd still save the 9 million per year on a Marquis contract, and we could just have Marshall/Guzman/Ryu/Mateo/anyone but Marquis pitch.
Soriano's contract might be an albatross in 5 or 6 years, but its truly rare when you can have an instant albatross--unfortunately, in contract terms, Marquis's albatross of a contract won't get up and fly away (it will be more like a fat penguin with two broken legs and a learning disability).
Anyway, my rant is over. Discuss, and post saturday's rumors here.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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124 comments
Comments
The St. Louis newspaper......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Dec 9, 2006 3:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Here's the link
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Dec 9, 2006 3:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm out
To put it mildly, I'm furious. There is a reason why paying 9 million dollars per year for a guy who had an ERA north of 6 the year before is completely unprecedented...
I guess Hendry was lonely in the hospital, so he decided it would be fun to give me an ulcer, and get me in there too. Damn you, sir.
by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 3:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure if its true or not......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Dec 9, 2006 3:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just can't even begin to understand why...
Plus, we have a lot of talented pitchers near major league ready. If we have four signed pitchers in 2 or 3 years (at least Z, Lilly, Hill, and Marquis), where are veal, gallagher, and our other young pitchers going to fit in if we can't unload these albatross contracts (lilly and Marquis, but mostly Marquis).
by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 3:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is beyond
by Macy on Dec 9, 2006 6:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are...
Maybe one or more of them could be traded by then, for help in other areas. That's one good reason to develop prospects -- so they can bring quality major league players in trade.
Maybe by then Wade Miller and/or Mark Prior will have totally blown out, and there will be a slot.
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 7:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or...
by 26.2cubfan on Dec 9, 2006 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you'll be back
by cubnational on Dec 9, 2006 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
I also think that giving up your fandom of a team because of this is ridiculous. It's the marketplace that's gone crazy, but this shouldn't kill your love for the game or for your team.
And, it is possible that Marquis will recover his 2004-05 form, in which case he is a better pitcher than Ted Lilly.
Finally, there is NO independent confirmation of this signing -- nothing on any other news site, nor on the Cubs website. I will see if I can find out more.
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 4:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not giving up my fandom
Not that its really any of your business anyway. Whether or not I give up my fandom, and my reasoning for doing that is a personal choice. As I've told you before, I think its ridiculous that you give them your money even though they are relentlessly shitty. We should probably agree to refrain from vocally judging each other's choices in regard to fandom.
by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 4:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, no problem.
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 4:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
I will say that the Ramirez contract he negotiated is one of the best moves of hie entire tenure (but only if they make this team a competitor--otherwise it was a waste).
One of my biggest problems with Hendry's offseason is actually that he refused to seek trade offers for felix pie. I would have tried to send Pie to Florida for Olsen, or Johnson (and there are probably other options if he included Patterson--who is overrated). Obviously, I'm not privy to the dealings of the GMs, but if I had to guess, I DO believe that moving Pie (or at least using him to headline a trade) COULD have netted us a better pitcher than Lilly and definitely Marquis. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I really don't think so.
by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 4:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be so sure...
When this has happened under Hendry (good example: Todd Walker), Hendry goes out of his way to accomodate the player.
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 5:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
First of all
by amaru on Dec 9, 2006 4:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
no way
Most importantly, Wells is going to be a FA after this season. If we really want him, we can pay for him then. Giving up that much for a player rental is foolish.
ALSO, I'm fairly certain that since Marquis is a FA, we couldn't sign and trade him. We'd have to wait several months (I forget how long).
by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 4:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How in the heck is
I live on mountain time and even now it is hard for mw to post.
I made a bet earlier that the carolina panthwers would make the playoffs.
by amaru on Dec 9, 2006 4:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I got back from a party
by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 4:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the party was in celebration of beer
by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 4:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What party is not
Lucky bastards.....
by amaru on Dec 9, 2006 4:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish that there
Regardless, I always get the feeling that anything that I post will get read by somebody who
by amaru on Dec 9, 2006 4:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I sure hope
Goodness, mad money thrown around. If Marquis is signed for this, they must have put some other liquid in Hendrys I V !! Please be not true.
Just got back ST. Kitts, wonderful island.
by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Dec 9, 2006 7:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind
If it is true, so be it. Marquis is a 200 inning pitcher, and he did have those two 10+ run "save the bullpen" outings last season. Like Al said, at his best he is a bit better than Lilly.
by nevadadave on Dec 9, 2006 8:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thank you!
From what I hear, signing Marquis is a definite possibility, but the money doesn't seem like it's going to be that much. The Cubs, apparently, are the only team out there for him -- so why compete against ourselves?
As far as the two 10+ run "take one for the team" outings are concerned, if you take those two outings off his record, it becomes:
184.1 IP, 105 ER, 14-14 record, 5.12 ERA
Whereas Ted Lilly's record in 2006 was:
181.2 IP, 87 ER, 15-13 record, 4.31 ERA
Marquis doesn't look quite as bad now, does he?
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
for one
by tomas21 on Dec 9, 2006 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I repeat, as I have said before:
Obviously, you don't. We'll simply have to agree to disagree.
All I was trying to say is that apart from those two starts, he wasn't a 6+ ERA pitcher. That seems clear.
And if you're saying 5.12 in the NL Central is pretty poor, shouldn't you be admitting that the Cubs shouldn't be throwing Sean Marshall et. al. out there? All of those rookies had ERA's that high, or higher.
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just out of curiousity...
Anyway, I just think it's funny how when you seem to be in a minority in an argument when someone comes in and agrees with you, all of a sudden, you're like, "Finally, someone with some sense around here!" Not totally a bad thing, just SEEMS a little disingenuous. Just sayin'. I laugh when I read those threads, regardless of content.
by tyger1147 on Dec 10, 2006 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dammit...
by tyger1147 on Dec 10, 2006 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your point is well taken.
by Al on Dec 10, 2006 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
there is no way we are getting giles. hendry already paid derosa, who is a below average hitter with no natural position, starter money to play second base and block eric patterson should he ever be ready. giles would have been a fantastic option, and since we have a surplus of bullpen arms probably would've been readily available. of well.
this also likely means that jones will either be kept, or traded for crap. my guess is he's traded for crap, and we sacrifice much the power we added in the soriano deal by signing lofton to play center field.
i had convinced myself to give hendry another chance with the hopes that many or most of his terrible moves the last few years were just baker's influence. i don't think so anymore. he's just a bad gm. he's spent over 250 million dollars and the team is marginally better, and most of the people on the team now have huge salaries and are likely headed for decline, not improvement. its takes a special kind of stupid to do that.
by tomas21 on Dec 9, 2006 8:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well..
"Justify" the signing? Yes. Jason Marquis is a good pitcher who had one bad year. Is he worth $9M a year? Probably not, and spewing steam out of your ears because of a rumor just doesn't make sense to me.
If this is another implication that I am "spouting company line", I resent it, because this is my opinion and mine alone. You should know better.
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 9:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One bad year?
Also, when people keep saying all the foolish spending is the market's fault and not Jim Hendry's, please realize that he's largely responsible for making the market as insane as it is.
by JDay on Dec 9, 2006 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As bad as you say he is
by diehardmark on Dec 10, 2006 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wins mean very little
Plus, even if you do go by wins, he's also racked up an unbelievable amount of losses in the last few seasons (on a winning team too). He just gets a lot of decisions. Even with the luxury of pitching for the cards, he's still 3 games under 500 over the past two seasons (with a whopping 30 losses).
by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad...
by sparkles721 on Dec 10, 2006 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Save the commentary...
But this really is a comment to you concerning Marcus Giles. People are wondering why nobody wants him? Has anyone ever watched him play 2B? He's a right-handed Todd Walker without Walker's power. Because he's slowing down, he's exactly that, a poor-man's Todd Walker. No real surprise that nobody wants him, least of all the Braves. Maybe he belongs in San Diego to platoon with Walker himself. That is why Giles is drawing no interest. Watch the game once in awhile and quit complaining.
by krummy12 on Dec 9, 2006 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It is too bad...
His EQAs the last three years: .260 (average), .273 (slightly better than average), and .300, not too shabby. Career, .278, about average.
Soriano's OPS+ was 132 last year - meaning he was 32% better than the rest of the league. But in the previous years, it was 110 and 98 - a little above and a little below. Career, 115, so he's about 15% better than average.
Before last year, his career high OBP was .338. Not much better than average.
My thoughts looking at those stats just briefly are that he is, among many things, a little better than average.
by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hate to be a stickler
I agree with your asessment otherwise. I just choose to believe that Sori is excellent and will prove a value to this team now that he has some stability in his career. He seems to me like a guy who was genuinely unhappy in TX and that's why he didn't really put up numbers. I like the numbers he put up in NY once he got established there. Let's just hope we can keep him happy....
by 26.2cubfan on Dec 9, 2006 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
I also hold out a lot of hope and think that he'll put up some good numbers, but it is my instinct, not numbers, that tell me that.
I was just more or less taking issue with the fact that someone will say something like "he's excellent, and how dare you say otherwise, and it isn't debatable" when it clearly is.
by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed 100%
Well, he is a great athelete, and he does have some nice power. But I would love to see continued improvement on obp, cut down on the strike outs, and continued improvement in the field once we pick a spot for him. If he's able to do this, then we'll be able to call him a great player. Until then, his career has proven him this far to be an above average player.
None of this will stop me from cheering my head off for him at 1060 W Addison....
by 26.2cubfan on Dec 9, 2006 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unlike Sosa...
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
You are cordially invited to sit with us in the bleachers on any day Marquis pitches.
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'll come sit in the bleacher's with...
Get ready to see a man, for the first time in your life, actually pull his OWN hair out of his head by hand.
by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to
by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It'll be great fun...
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your figures are way off re: Giles
The only correct part of that statement is that he's righthanded. He has a career OPS OVER 800, and displays more power than walker on average. He also has a higher career OBP. Plus, he is ONLY 28.
Its a stupid comparison anyway, since Walker is no longer a cub. The player to whom you SHOULD be comparing Giles is Mark DeRosa (let me help you: he's a MUCH better option). All evidence points to the sad fact that DeRosa's last season was a career year (he's three years older than Giles). Giles, on the other hand, has consistently put up better numbers than DeRosa every year (with the exception of last season--probably just a down year).
This isn't even taking into account the fact that DeRosa was playing at one of the best hitters' parks in baseball (arlington) while Giles was playing at a pitchers' park in Atlanta.
Even if we did pick up Giles, and he played terribly, we still have a competent backup. I think this is DEFINITELY worth the risk. Currently, if DeRosa goes down, who steps in? Ronny Cedeno? NO THANK YOU! Actually, it would probably be Ryan Theriot, who is a decent option as a backup, but what evidence do we have that his success last year wasn't a fluke....I seem to remember Neifi hitting near .400 during his first few months with us in 2004 (although Theriot gave us a slightly larger sample size).
by Thelonious on Dec 9, 2006 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Random and Irrelevant...
by thekansasian on Dec 9, 2006 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Random and Irrelevant
Unless you're a guy, in which case I only greatly admire you.
by VS on Dec 9, 2006 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand?
by jballgame on Dec 9, 2006 8:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Rowand
Given the Sox already pulled the trigger on Freddy Garcia w/o Rowand included-I'd think we have a good shot. The Phils have Shane Victorino as a backup to Rowand.
The Phillies are also desperate for relief help, and are looking to unload Lieber as well. I don't know what it would take, but I would like a reliever + rookie pitcher to the Phils for Rowand.
Rowand only made $3.25MM in '06 (don't know what he gets in 07) and could very well post .280/.450/.800
Thoughts?
by jballgame on Dec 9, 2006 8:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Honestly?
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
by thekansasian on Dec 9, 2006 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nice sig
by theprognosticator on Dec 9, 2006 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My guess
This is only a guess. I would be OK with either of these deals. If, instead, the reported deal is accurate, it is indeed the worst signing of the offseason.
I don't think the Cubs will make any other major moves without making a decision on Jacque Jones. Either he gets traded in the next week, or he is with the club in Spring Training.
by zambranofan on Dec 9, 2006 9:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i would have
by tomas21 on Dec 9, 2006 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Marquis
by Macy on Dec 9, 2006 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We know he wasn't THE worst...
In 2006, the year the Cubs pretty much crapped the bed. We threw a Double-AA starting rotation up against major league hitting, and as far as I can tell, we were getting close to the point where we considered throwing our new draft picks out there in August just to save the bullpen.
And we STILL found Glendon Rusch a phantom pitching injury in July.
Heck, in a year where we started LES WALROND, Jerome Williams couldn't get back to the majors.
by cwyers on Dec 9, 2006 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The best summary of the Horrors of 06 yet
by cubnational on Dec 9, 2006 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Watch
by Macy on Dec 9, 2006 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
3 years 20 million
by Chitown Mojo on Dec 9, 2006 9:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Happy Birthday Sarah
Your birthday will now be known forever as "Jason Marquis Day".
As your buddy Adam Dunn would say: grrrrrr.
by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Dec 9, 2006 9:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Happy Birthday Sarah!
by sparkles721 on Dec 9, 2006 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's not right
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it were my gift...
by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
by sparkles721 on Dec 9, 2006 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope...
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd return it...
by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That
by Macy on Dec 9, 2006 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can I...
I have one that you should definitely post.
by sparkles721 on Dec 9, 2006 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Awww, thanks for remembering
Yeah, I feel shocked. But look on the bright side, now Al will have TONS of pun opportunities.
Like....
Does this signing suck? Yep, you hit the Marquis on that one.
or,
Marquis this one down in the record books. Cubs make mistake and spend too much on a tired arm.
by Sarah Hope on Dec 13, 2006 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 10:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
How ...
by Littlerock Rynofan on Dec 9, 2006 10:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Z is going to be soo rich...
I'm worried about Z's contract. I don't know why, but I'm worried.
by sparkles721 on Dec 9, 2006 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Julie
;)
by gravedigger on Dec 9, 2006 10:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Marquis
I'm neutral on this signing...most likely because I'm an idiot. Marquis will return to 2004 form, Prior will return to 2003 form, Hill will remain at late 2006 form, Lilly will gain a form that allows him to be above .500...
by thekansasian on Dec 9, 2006 11:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Alright, When is this
Just in case there are some of us that haven't familiarized ourselves with Church's stats......here are his 2006 numbers...in 70 games (196 AB)
.276/.366/.526, 10 HR, 22 R, 35 RBI, 6 SB......
Giving him a HR/AB ratio of 19.6 (obviously), RBI/AB of 5.6, RUNS/AB of 8.9......
Translated through 600 AB......Church would have (supposedly) hit....
31 HR
107 RBI
67 R
20 SB (accounting for 650 plate appearances, due to number of walks)
and he's a lefty....
NOW JIMBO, NOW!!!!
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 9, 2006 11:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not only that
by Macy on Dec 9, 2006 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But, but ...
by rlpete on Dec 9, 2006 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
by Al on Dec 9, 2006 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hendry
just when we save one with angioplasty... he goes out and puts thousands more in danger
i guess this was the Big LH bat he was referring to
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 9, 2006 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This could
by Macy on Dec 10, 2006 12:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Big LH Bat...
Jeromy Burnitz- 37 and unsigned
Steve Finley- 41 and unsigned
Todd Hollandsworth- 34 and unsigned
Ryan Klesko- 35 and unsigned
Matt Stairs- 38 and unsigned
And Shawn Estes and Jose Hernandez are still out there as well...
<Sarcasm>
On a serious note, other FA's still out there (as you can see, I was checking the FA tracker) that drew interest to me (not necessarily in relation to the Cubs):
Todd Walker, Mark Mulder, Brad Radke, Troy Percival, Chan Ho Park, Kenny Lofton, Aubrey Huff, Keith Foulke, Eric Gagne, and Octavio Dotel.
by thekansasian on Dec 9, 2006 6:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Let's see....
Brad Radke retired.
Troy Percival retired.
Keith Foulke should retire.
Dotel signed with the Royals.
by escapegoat on Dec 9, 2006 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"if"
by cubz409 on Dec 9, 2006 6:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Lilly + Marquis = Schmidt !!!!!
If Hendry took Marquis' 7 million and added it to Lilly's 10 million, we could be looking at Schmidt or Zito. If the market for good to great players is crazy, so be it. You have to have good players. It is idiotic to throw any sort of money after easily replaceable players.
by Rotodaddy on Dec 9, 2006 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Once again..
Jason Schmidt was NOT going to come to the Cubs unless Hendry paid far more than $17 million a year. He wanted to stay on the west coast, and has a personal relationship with some people in the Dodger organization.
This "add up the Marquis/Lilly dollars and you get Schmidt" simply doesn't wash.
by Al on Dec 10, 2006 4:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, maybe not........
by Rotodaddy on Dec 10, 2006 4:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What better use?
Further, Marquis was a GOOD pitcher in 2004 and 2005, or at least a little better than average. He is, IMO, the equal of Gil Meche, who's getting twice as many dollars.
My opinion, as I have repeatedly stated, is that he will be a pleasant surprise. If I'm wrong, I'll freely admit it. I hope the rest of you will if you are.
by Al on Dec 10, 2006 5:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what exactly do you base your optimism on?
Although I do agree with you that the salaries of lilly + Marquis do not equal schmidt, is it not also true that we have several pitchers that can probably put up comparable (if not better) numbers as Marquis for league minimum? If you examine Marquis's contract in terms of marginal utility, it becomes evident just how stupid that signing was. Going on current projections, Al, this contract is a colossal waste of money. I'm happy that the Cubs are spending, but spending stupidly is never welcome as far as I'm concerned. If they really wanted to make a bold move, they could trade for a pitcher by making a deal headlined by Pie. This Marquis deal is dumb any way you look at it.
Maybe I'll be eating my words at the end of the year, but going by odds, that probably won't happen, unfortunately. Looking at Marquis's stats, his groundout ratio has been trending downward since 2004 (he's practically GO/FO neutral now, even though he was once an extreme groundball pitcher), which leads me to believe he's having trouble with his sinker. If Duncan couldn't help him, then I'm not sure Rothschild is exactly the man for the job. Also, he gave up copious homers last season. That can only get worse coming into our launchingpad of a ballpark.
by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 5:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
Again, yes, Duncan has a wonderful reputation. Could he help Sidney Ponson? Nope. Here's where personality clashes may come into account. Maybe Duncan and Marquis just didn't get along. Maybe Duncan missed something.
We'll just have to agree to disagree here. This isn't the greatest signing ever -- and anyone who, in the future, claims that I said so will be just plain wrong.
But neither is it a disaster. And it could be a pleasant surprise.
If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. If not, I hope you will say you were wrong.
by Al on Dec 10, 2006 5:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I always admit when I'm wrong
Just because it CAN happen doesn't mean you should assume it WILL happen; especially when evidence points to the opposite. Can you give me any reasoning on why you have any optimism at all?
His peripheral stats have been trending poorly. His K/BB ratio is very poor, his K/9 was already subpar, and has been trending downward, his ERA has been rising, his GO/FO ratio has fallen SHARPLY (which is the most troubling stat to me--when a guy has 2 groundouts for every flyout, and then is neutral within a couple years, I see red flags), he's coming over to a team where fans will boo him much more than in STL (especially since most cubs fans are pissed off with this signing, and we already boo more than card fans), he's coming to a team with a pitching coach who has a less successful track record, and he's coming into a more hitter friendly park.
Is there something I'm missing? Why should I be optimistic at all?
by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 5:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
However
If Marquis has a highly successful year, I'll be as happy as a schoolgirl. Since I go to U of I, I know a lot of card fans; one of my roommates is from st. louis. There is nothing sweeter than gloating in front of your friends.
I'll tell you what, Al. If your optimism turns out to be warranted, I owe you a coke.
by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 6:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Despite the fact that two of us have...
by gravedigger on Dec 10, 2006 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Any Use is better honestly.
Just because the Cubs are playing to win in the near future doesn't mean you spend wildly just because there is a warm body to spend it on. I'm all for overpaying good players if that's what it takes, but pocket the money if all that is left is a dungheap. That's my only problem with the Cubs throwing around this money to win in a single offseason. If there is noone worthwhile to sign now, then hold the money and don't lock it up for three seasons. I'm pretty sure free agency will still exist next offseason. Could $21 million help then? If there is not a quality player to use it on now then don't spend it on one of last year's worst pitchers. I'm not even a fan of Marmol, Guzman, or Marshall, but I'd rate their chances to do something decent as better than Marquis'. Somewhere there is a limit to the payroll and spending 7 million on someone who is quite likely a bad pitcher uses up a big chunk. I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not going to act like it's a decent or even understandable move.
by Rotodaddy on Dec 10, 2006 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
big z
by NOMAR on Dec 10, 2006 4:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
al
one of the reasons people get frustrated discussing things with you is that you will completely change your opinion about something if that's what the cubs want you to. for example, before marquis was signed, you said this about him:
"I would stay FAR away. I can't believe Marquis thinks he's worth that much.
For a small base plus incentives, I'd do it, but not for anything more."
then after the cubs signed him for 3/21, you cite how good a hitter he is, and say you think he'll revert back to 2004 form and be a real steal.
it was the same thing with baker, where you defended him and placed blame elsewhere until the moment he was fired, then said you changed your mind and that he was probably responsible for a lot of the cubs failures, and that hendry, who coincidentally wasn't fired, probably was corrupted by baker, and probably is still a pretty good gm.
you are perfectly willing to call "stat guys" to task for supposedly not acknowledging the human aspects of the game, and only recognizing what can be measured on a stat sheet. however, you are not aware that you often are willing to accept whatever propaganda the cubs feed you distort your own ability to examine what they are doing.
by tomas21 on Dec 10, 2006 10:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I have to admit...
by gravedigger on Dec 10, 2006 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have not changed my mind about...
But I like Marquis and I'm glad he's on the team. That's not inconsistent. As has been said elsewhere, once the team begins play on the field, the dollars don't matter. Only the performance does.
And tomas21 -- I'm going to say this only once more, and I don't know how else to drill this into your head, so I'm going to put it into big type so you cannot possibly miss it.
THE CUBS DO NOT TELL ME TO SAY ANYTHING. THEY NEVER HAVE AND THEY NEVER WILL. Do you get it now?
by Al on Dec 10, 2006 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Further...
Let's be clear, too: he wasn't fired. His contract expired and it was not renewed. There is a difference. Don't let your apparent personal hatred of the man color statements of fact.
by Al on Dec 10, 2006 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the fact that
i don't hate anyone. i think baker is a bad person and a terrible manager, but i don't hate him.
by tomas21 on Dec 10, 2006 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you read what I wrote?
All I will say here is that you do not know Dusty Baker personally (I think that's a safe assumption), thus to say he's a bad person is just plain wrong.
Your opinion that he's a terrible manager is noted, and in fact, looking back I'd agree with you.
by Al on Dec 10, 2006 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Interpreting Tomas :-)
by Rotodaddy on Dec 10, 2006 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And...
It IS true, as stated below and elsewhere, that I'm generally an optimistic person, wanting to think the best, until shown otherwise.
That's in opposition to many here who almost automatically naysay anything that the organization does. I can't and won't be that way.
by Al on Dec 10, 2006 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
tomas,
He did have far more tolerance of Dusty than most of us did but I think Al is the type of person who is willing to give everyone a chance to succeed or fail and in Dusty's situtaion he aknolwedged he was wrong.
He said on here several times if he is wrong he will say so and he has said so.
by sue369 on Dec 10, 2006 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i am not
and while he has admitted that he was wrong, its usually after the cubs have also reversed fields, such as in the baker situation. he was about the only one (besides bluemike) still in support of baker, despite overwhelming evidence of him being a terrible mananger, until it started trickling out through the media that his contract wouldn't be renewed after the season ended.
i didn't mean to turn this into a long debate, i just get frustrated with Al sometimes because in these situations where he agrees with cub decisions that most others don't, he can be kind of close-minded and snarky to those who disagree with him. if i didn't like al, i wouldn't get frustrated.
by tomas21 on Dec 10, 2006 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
tomas
Like the rest of us, Al is entitled to change his mind. And, like most of us, he's probably guilty of wanting to believe the best of the organization; that when they promise us something, they genuinely have every intent of making it happen. This is the team we love; of course we want to believe that they know something we don't or that they have some ace up their sleeve. And there's nothing wrong with trying to make the more suicidal members of this site hold feel a bit better about some of these signings.
I hate this signing, but my opinion isn't going to change anything, we're stuck with Marquis. Might as well down the Kool Aid at this point and hope for the best. If he still sucks in June, we can all start bitching again.
I get sick of these attacks on Al. He's entitled to his opinion, he's entitled to change his mind. When he's been wrong, he's admitted it, which is more than many people on this site can say.
by cubbiejulie on Dec 10, 2006 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you...
by Al on Dec 10, 2006 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i will
by tomas21 on Dec 10, 2006 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you.
How many of us would be thrilled if the Cardinals had kept Marquis? How many of us would be ripping the Astros or Pirates because they signed Marquis for this contract and not an incentive one? It's a bad deal, and it's for 3 years. I really hope he does well, and if he doesn't at least he doesn't have a no trade clause.
by sparkles721 on Dec 10, 2006 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that is so true
Instead, if I wasn't so incredibly manly, I'd be crying about this signing...
Who am I trying to kid. I'm sobbing like a three year old who stubbed his toe about this debacle.
by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not suggesting
Al gets it from both sides on a daily basis for being a) too optimistic or b) not optimistic enough. I just don't see the need to get personal about it, that's all I was saying.
by cubbiejulie on Dec 10, 2006 5:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cliff Floyd, the inevitable Cub
by BlueMike on Dec 10, 2006 6:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
probably right after he finishes...
by Thelonious on Dec 10, 2006 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
by gravedigger on Dec 10, 2006 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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