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Marshall's Field

MESA, Arizona -- The sun was out and it was about 62 degrees when I left for today's game, so I wore shorts and a T-shirt.

Big mistake, as it turned out -- it started getting cloudy, and a little before 3:00 the sky got really dark; the sort of sky that if you were in the Great Plains you'd fear a tornado was nearby, but here, all it meant was a raging downpour, and so after six innings the ballgame was called, a 4-4 tie with the Brewers.

But the big story was Sean Marshall. Marshall threw three innings, gave up a bunt single to Bill Hall and a looping single to J. J. Hardy; he walked one and hit Geoff Jenkins (who went to first base wringing his hand and left the game later on) -- and that was it.

Marshall has mound presence. Marshall has the curveball we all wish Rich Hill had. Marshall mixed up his pitches well, and even looked OK in his time at bat, hitting a hard line drive to right field for an out.

OK, it's only one game, and only three innings, but I imagine that's enough to get him another start five days hence, and put him in the frontrunner's spot for the fifth-starter slot once the Cubs need one come April 15.

BCB reader "San Diego Smooth Jazz Man", who many of you have seen post here, was at the game today, and he and I agreed on the description of Marshall I posted above. (See some more of his comments on today's game in this diary.) He came out to the lawn to say hi before the game, we talked for a while about the Cubs, about BCB, and about the media biz that we both inhabit in our day jobs. Then he went back to his seat behind 3B; I called him when I left the game... which, I will admit, was one-half-inning short of the completion.

Hey, it's an exhibition game. I had shorts on, and once the rain started it was cold and windy, and I had my blanket wrapped around me and I was STILL cold -- and I figured, correctly, that once the game was stopped they wouldn't continue. I got to my car just as it started pouring; later I got a call from the Jazz Man telling me it was a "deluge".

This was my first time at Ho Ho Kam Park this year, and the crowd was definitely smaller than previous years. 11,483 was the announced attendance; that's about 1000 short of capacity, and the lawn, while somewhat crowded, wasn't anywhere near the packed, unable-to-move-around throng I've seen for the last couple of years. I managed to avoid He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named until I was on my way out, when I was walking toward the CF exit and he was traipsing through the crowd toward LF. I hope he got soaked.

Other good things that happened today: Ronny Cedeno hit a two-run HR, which landed about ten feet in front of me, sitting in front of the clock on the LF scoreboard. Made a play for it, but someone with a glove grabbed it before I could get hold of it. This happened after Matt Murton walked, showing really nice plate discipline off a tough pitcher, Chris Capuano. Note to Dusty Baker: with Cedeno's HR (his first of the spring), this walk did NOT clog the bases.

When Geoff Jenkins batted in the fifth with a man on first and one out, the Cubs put on a Barry Bonds-like shift, with all the infielders on the right side of 2B. Jenkins obliged by hitting a ground ball right to Cedeno -- playing where the second baseman normally would. He flipped to Aramis Ramirez -- covering second base and Aramis made a nifty pivot move, completing a weird 6-5-3 double play.

Bad things today: after Marshall's excellent three innings, Bob Howry came in and gave up three doubles and two runs, and two of the doubles were pounded far over Juan Pierre's head to the deep reaches of CF, more than 400 feet away. It is my opinion that Pierre plays far too shallow -- this isn't the first day that I've seen balls fly over his head. I gather he wants to use his speed to catch up with those, and thus maybe be able to catch balls hit more shallow. This might work in Wrigley Field, but it doesn't in the larger outfields of the Cactus League.

After Howry's appearance, Matt Ciaramella (the PTBNL in the Jermaine Van Buren deal) batted for him and grounded out -- but the Cubs added a run on a couple of singles and a sac fly by Ramirez (on which Brewer CF Brady Clark made a nice diving catch), after which Les Walrond came in to pitch.

Why? Why? Why? First of all, everyone knew rain was coming and this was supposed to be Ryan Dempster's day to throw an inning. Walrond has less chance of making the Cubs' 25-man roster than I do. He will probably be released at the end of camp. Why put him in a game? He obliged the Brewers by issuing two walks and two hits, resulting in a tie game, and further resulting in another day that Dempster has to wait to pitch again.

That's where it ended after the rain poured down, and I'll spare you the cliched "kissing your sister" jokes. Tomorrow, Greg Maddux will go against the Padres in Peoria in the Cubs' first night game of the spring -- and we won't see Derrek Lee yet again. His return is being postponed till "later in the week".

I'm going to trust that is the truth, and not bad news.

Finally, they haven't changed the concession choices at Ho Ho Kam -- I think that'll finally happen next year. But they have fixed the PA speakers on the berm, so I could actually hear the lineup announcements and changes. And they've added one that I first heard at the Brewers' park at Maryvale -- they announced the game-time temperature (62), followed by the temperature in Chicago (32).

Nice, but it works a lot better when it's 92 here.

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Nice title Al!
You truly have a gift with wordplay.  Nice to hear some good stuff about a pitcher now and then too.
Anyone can have a bad century...

by Kinky Reggae on Mar 21, 2006 8:15 PM CST reply actions  

Who?
is He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named???

I feel very out of the loop...

If Marshall can put some more zeros on the board, I can see him beating out Guzman, Hill, and Ryu for the job on the 15th!

However, his lack of experience above AA concerns me...

Git 'er done!

by KChiCubs on Mar 21, 2006 9:19 PM CST reply actions  

Hint
He constantly yells out "Woo Woo!" at the top of his lungs. (shudders)

by Perkins on Mar 21, 2006 9:22 PM CST up reply actions  

He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named
Isn't that Voldemort?

I kid, I kid.

That would be Ronnie Woo Woo.  I doubt I can explain it properly, but he's basically a Cubs fan who is famous for his, I don't know, team spirit?

I've never met the fellow but just from reading BCB I've grown to dislike him.

Here's his official website.

"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers." - Earl Weaver

by VS on Mar 21, 2006 9:28 PM CST up reply actions  

GAH! GAH! GAH!
You're not supposed to name him here! That's why he is He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named!!

I considered deleting the comment with his site link, but maybe you should all go there to see how mentally off this man is.

by Al Yellon on Mar 21, 2006 9:33 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL!
I had never seen Ronnie Woo Woo's website.

I've seen him and I don't dislike him, but then again he was only by me for like two minutes.

Voldemort is not capable of being a Cubs fan, and I would be scared if he was one.

Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Mar 21, 2006 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

lol
I think you're right. He doesn't have enough of a heart to be a Cubs fan.

by Perkins on Mar 21, 2006 9:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Voldemort
He doesn't have enough of a heart to be a Cubs fan

He must be a Yankees fan then.  Figures.

"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers." - Earl Weaver

by VS on Mar 21, 2006 9:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup!
That would make sense!
Cubbie Blue always sPaRkLes in my eyes.

by sparkles721 on Mar 21, 2006 9:47 PM CST up reply actions  

not pitching above AA is a inconsequential cliche
for pitchers. If he can get them out that is why 21 or 23 year olds become stars.
Bill Veeck planted Ivy during 'The Depression', and over time the Ivy Walls has become the most distinct symbol of Wrigley Field.

by Ivy Walls on Mar 22, 2006 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

WOO WOO?
ohh,,, that is who it is....

I met him at a game last year... D'backs @ Wrigley

Git 'er done!

by KChiCubs on Mar 21, 2006 10:01 PM CST reply actions  

You know...
Jesus hates the yankees!
Git 'er done!

by KChiCubs on Mar 21, 2006 10:03 PM CST reply actions  

I must have just missed you
We were actually sitting about 10 feet in front of Cedeno's home run ball.  Too bad I didn't get a chance to visit with you.

I really liked what I saw out of the top of the order today.  One inning there was a Pierre double followed by a nice Hairston sacrifice and finally a Ramirez sac fly.  Another inning there was a Pierre single followed by a Hairston single with Pierre going first to third and then a Ramirez single.  I hope this is a sign of things to come.  What I really liked is Pierre was obviously in Capuano head after he singled as he went 3-0 to Hairston and really looked to be rushing himself.

We will be at the game in Peoria tomorrow night as well.  We are sitting in the lawn, maybe we will run into you.    

by AZ Saluki on Mar 21, 2006 10:42 PM CST reply actions  

Really!
Sorry I missed you. I was sitting by myself on a blanket, right in front of the scoreboard.

Tomorrow, I plan to be on the RF lawn at Peoria. If you email me privately using the link on the right sidebar, we can make arrangements to meet.

by Al Yellon on Mar 21, 2006 11:02 PM CST up reply actions  

oops
In retrospect, I think I was standing behind Al for about 1/2 inning, right after I left the grandstand (when the people by my grandmother's seats finally showed up), and right before I discovered that my friends who came out for the weekend were still here and on the lawn. Oh well, I'll be in the Wrigley bleachers once or twice this year.

I saw Air Raid under the seats while we were waiting out the worst of the rain. He was quiet, which was nice.

by goldstj2 on Mar 22, 2006 12:57 AM CST up reply actions  

We too
were sitting in left field in front of the scoreboard. Someone hold up a sign next time! I think Marshall is going to be our #5 for now. I like his presence on the hill and no runs in spring training has to count for something, I don't care what level he's pitched before. Our top of the lineup showed off when Pierre went 1st to 3rd and scored on Rameriz's sac fly. It's going to be exciting when he's on. Will be at next two games, hope I can see many of you BCB'ers!

by mrcubsfan on Mar 22, 2006 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

simply because i don't know any better...
why wouldn't jenkins try at least one bunt towards third during the shift you describe? (of course i realize this is spring, and he is maybe saving all his offensive tricks for the regular season?)

by dc60123 @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Mar 22, 2006 8:54 AM CST reply actions  

great outing, but
this is still a kid who has tossed just ten games at double-a and thrown, what, a dozen innings this spring? projecting a starting spot for him on this is just ludicrous -- and asking for a bullet in the head, which is just what this team doesn't need another of.

i'm really hyped on marshall long term -- he's done everything to convince me that he's on the path to starterdom. but this is the same pitcher who, in being moved up to west tenn in 2004 from lansing, got TATTOOED to the tune of a 5.90 era and 1.66 whip in six starts.

progression takes time. learning takes time -- especially in pitching. this kid is not the finished product upon delivery, a la mark prior. why on earth would this club -- the same club that brought patterson along too quickly, or so the story goes -- risk destroying this kid's confidence by vaulting him over two levels and into the bigs? for this team, which isn't going anywhere regardless?

it makes absolutely no sense to me.

by gaius marius on Mar 22, 2006 1:15 PM CST reply actions  

What you say does make sense...
... but what other options are there?

Maybe this kid is ready. At the very least, he has earned another spring training start.

He did face the Brewers' major league lineup yesterday (save Prince Fielder and Rickie Weeks). You didn't see him pitch. I did. He has presence out there. Most 23-year-olds don't. That counts for something.

by Al Yellon on Mar 22, 2006 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

guzman and hill
should both get a chance long before anyone brings up marshall's name. presence is great -- but let's encourage him to keep it instead of getting it ripped to bits in the majors.

fwiw, hill's hits/9 through the minors came to just 7.0. control trouble? sure, at least until 2005. but he has long been harder to make contact off of than marshall.

guzman too has been impressive this camp, though i don't see much really special in his minor league record.

both these guys have been in the cub system for a long time and should take their shots now. if they don't work out, so be it -- the 2006 cubs are going to middle along anyway and contend for nothing, in every likelihood. don't waste marshall by throwing him onto this pyre out of desperation.

by gaius marius on Mar 22, 2006 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd guess
that all the contenders will get 2 more starts during spring. Then you grab the guy who is throwing best. Remember that Marshall is a lefty and 6'7". He also pitched in college so he has had experience that doesn't show up in minor league stats.

Whoever does get the nod will have to throw strikes and Hill doesn't seem to have that ability at the present time. Let's just not discount Marshall until he has a few more turns.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Mar 22, 2006 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

two more starts
will mean marshall has tossed a grand total of about 15 innings. we're supposed to hand this guy a starting spot on the basis of 15 innings?

remember, this kid spent most of last year going 4-4 in high-a ball at daytona, allowing 63 hits in 69 innings before getting promoted briefly to west tenn -- and then having to be shut down with shoulder tendonitis in july after just 94 innings pitched.

that was a career high for any year, as his 2003 and 2004 were also shortened by injuries. there's a lot to risk here.

by gaius marius on Mar 22, 2006 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

fwiw
maybe he is ready. stranger things have happened.

so let him prove it in west tenn and iowa.

by gaius marius on Mar 22, 2006 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

There's no time for that...
... this is an emergency situation, unless a major-league starter becomes available in the next two weeks.

by Al Yellon on Mar 22, 2006 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

hah!
it was an emergency situation in november and december. now, it's an afterthought.

there's no reason to pretend that the house is on fire and marshall's got the only hose in town. the house is already gutted, thank you very much. what guzman and hill can't do, some other toadie from the margin can. it won't cost the cubs the pennant -- indeed, it may cost them third place, but who cares?

by gaius marius on Mar 22, 2006 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

guzman/hill/marshall
would all start the season in the minors, right? we don't need a starter for the first 2 weeks of the season, so we'll have a little more data on these 3 before we decide (4 starts each or so, i'm guessing).

add to that we'd probably only need 2 or 3 starts from whoever gets the call, since you would think one of miller/wood/prior will be back by early may to take their place.

i don't think its that big a deal who we choose, i guess is what i'm saying.

by tomas21 on Mar 22, 2006 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

i would submit
that a couple more starts won't matter much. it's still a diminishingly small sample on which to evaluate and promote.

but i wholly agree that it may not matter much -- and that's all the more reason to use hill and not toss marshall's nascent career into the fire of hendry's incompetence. let marshall learn and earn his way to iowa this year.

if he is everything people think he is, by spring 2007 he'll have demonstrated that he's the real deal by dominating west tenn and des moines for a full year without injury. there'll be much less risk to his psyche if he's convinced that he's earned his way to chicago.

by gaius marius on Mar 23, 2006 8:39 AM CST up reply actions  

So you would
use Hill who is having a terrible time right now versus Marshall who isn't? That smacks of Baker's philosophy using the seasoned vet no matter what.

The wise move is to choose the hot pitcher for the couple of starts. And if Marshall is psychologically destroyed if he does poorly, then he probably will never be a major leaguer anyway.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Mar 24, 2006 1:28 AM CST up reply actions  

if i bought that
And if Marshall is psychologically destroyed if he does poorly, then he probably will never be a major leaguer anyway.

i'd agree. but i don't. most people are fragile, and generally succeed when you put them in a position to -- and likewise fail when you allow them to. confidence and experience matter, often profoundly, especially when young. teach a kid to fail, and he will.

this isn't about using the vet no matter what. when marshall has proven he can get people out at iowa, by all means bring him on -- no one wants to see rusch less than i do.

it's about putting marshall in a position to succeed, with the proven tools of success.

by gaius marius on Mar 24, 2006 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

By all accounts
Marshall has a very calm disposition and wouldn't need therapy IF he has a poor outing. The majors are full of players who skipped an extensive minor league career and succeeded in the bigs. We're only talking about 2 games not a permanent spot in the rotation.

Even Baker and Hendry agree that April and May are important to the club's future given the fast starts of the Cards recently. Why go with a pitcher who isn't having a good spring rather than one who is? Of course, if the pitchers are throwing about equal you go with the vet. But I don't see any of the candidates other than Marshall I'd prefer on the mound right now. Given some more starts that opinion could change but we need the early games to avoid being a candidate for wildcard.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Mar 24, 2006 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

exactly
We're only talking about 2 games not a permanent spot in the rotation.

so why not err on the side of caution and throw rich hill out there?

by gaius marius on Mar 24, 2006 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

GM,
Please...cut us some slack. I sat behind the plate and didn't expect ANYTHING! I saw a poised youngster, who THANK GOD isn't a power pitcher.
He used the fast ball to set up that nasty curve, when batters were still looking for the heat.
God, if we can't have some good thoughts about a youngster.......we'd be.............you. My guess is that he might return to the minors. However -- many teams, the White Sox included are calling up AA players quicker than those from AAA. It almost appears -- in some cases, AAA is loaded with old MLB'ers for security -- an immediate recall due to injury. (Augie Ojeda?) So why the HELL not try a kid from AA -- if he has the goods. He needs another start. If he gets racked -- OK, back to riding the bus for a while. But to completely throw negative, negative negative all the time is
just unwarranted and unecessary. Have some fun, will ya?

by Smooth Jazz Man San Diego on Mar 23, 2006 11:06 AM CST reply actions  

lol
sdsjm, do you really think i'm being negative? marshall's development isn't just a matter of indulging in some fun fantasies right now. i'm interested in seeing marshall succeed long-term for this team -- i agree, he has the capacity to.

question: does throwing him into the rotation in chicago after just ten starts at double-a promote that end? i say CLEARLY NOT -- again, this would be another example of the cubs promoting not based on accomplishment and merit but on need, which is a great method of destroying prospects. if we start making decisions with kids now out of desperation, all we're doing is perpetuating the problem of this piss-poor farm system.

if he's as good as we all hope, he'll prove it in west tenn and iowa this year by learning, pitching well and (finally) staying injury-free to earn a spot in chicago -- and he'll arrive next year a better, less fragile, more seasoned candidate.

by gaius marius on Mar 23, 2006 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

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