Here's a guy we don't want to trade for...

by Molechaser on Apr 27, 2006 8:42 PM CDT Comment 42 comments

Not that it is likely to be on anyone's mind, but we should probably cross Delmon Young off of any lists of possible trade targets. Apparently,

Top Tampa Bay prospect Delmon Young was suspended indefinitely by the International League on Thursday, a day after throwing a bat that hit a replacement umpire in the chest.

I think someone needs anger management training.

Comments

Did you read his "apology"?

Obviously, written by his agent or a lawyer. Man, if these people really are sorry, couldn't they find the words to say so themselves?

Young has a lot of talent, but you're right -- anger management is clearly in his future.

by Al on Apr 27, 2006 8:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

From what has been said, Young has a history of this kind of stuff. He has a major attitude problem and is not happy aout playing in the minor leagues this season. I hope that baseball does its part however if I were the Devil Rays, I'd dole out a heavy suspension, perhaps for half a season or more. As we've seen with Corey Patterson, once you call a guy up, its hard to reign him in. I've started reading "Game of Shadows" and I've read what a problem Bonds was not just for ASU but also with the Pirates. I bet Jim Leyland wishes he had treated Bonds differently from the start. If I were the Rays GM and cared about the future of Young and the organization, I'd send him a message and let him know what is and is not acceptable.

DmL

by dmlichte on Apr 27, 2006 9:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Shoot...

I'd trade for him in a heartbeat.. He's young, made a mistake in the heat of the moment. He's still the best offensive prospect in the minor leagues, I'd love to have him.

by ontheuptick on Apr 27, 2006 9:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

A mistake?

Perhaps. However Young has a history and this is not the first incident involving him. As soon as we cater to these players we end up with more players like Barry Bonds. Performance is not the only standard to live by and we need to expect more from superstars.

DmL

by dmlichte on Apr 27, 2006 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And this

is why the Cubs haven't won anything in 100 years, but have won several "good citizenship" championships.

by Josh77 on Apr 27, 2006 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

Character counts. It just does. And it's a shame more people don't live by that. I absolutely would not want a bunch of thugs to root for on the Cubs, even if it meant winning. Not at the price of sacrificing my values. I wouldn't want kids to root for them, or to send a message to kids that it's okay to be an asshole as long as you win the World Series. In my profession, I had to take and pass two different ethics exams, among other things, and pass a background check, before I was allowed to work in my field. I just don't suffer fools at all, and that what this would be.

by BeerCub on Apr 27, 2006 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

And Juan Marichal took a baseball bat to Johnny Roseboro's head (for which he received a NINE game suspension--ridiculous. So he missed two starts). Boy, why the hell didn't we just kick him out of the game right then? Boy, he's sure lived a life of crime and debauchery ever since then. If someone had kicked him out of the game back then, he wouldn't be the Minister of Sport in the Dominican Republic today.

It must be nice to be the Shadow and know what evil lurks in the hearts of men. I was taught "Judge not, least ye be judged." Can't remember who said that. Some famous old guy.

I'm not saying Young shouldn't be suspended for a hell of a lot longer than Marichal was--I was thinking 75 games. A lot depends on what he was doing off camera that we can't see. But saying that I'm too good to be on (or cheer for) the same team as someone like Delmon Young is on is a kind of self-righteousness I could do without.

by Josh77 on Apr 27, 2006 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Young

"But saying that I'm too good to be on (or cheer for) the same team as someone like Delmon Young is on is a kind of self-righteousness I could do without."

Why?

by dmlichte on Apr 27, 2006 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why not?

Because I believe that people who have served their punishment should be given a second chance to start anew. And because I wouldn't want people holding every bad thing I've ever done in my life against me for as long as I live.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

If you've lived a perfect life, then I apologize for what I've said.

by Josh77 on Apr 27, 2006 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Live By The Sword

Die by the sword. Or the bat, in this case. I've got a suggestion. People shouldn't do things bad enough that merit being held against them for a very long time. There's a novel concept.

by BeerCub on Apr 27, 2006 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Old Testament Guy

I'm so glad you've lived a perfect life.

by Josh77 on Apr 27, 2006 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hope you're not looking

for any kind of forgiveness for any of the things you've done and are ashamed of, bc.

by gaius marius on Apr 28, 2006 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

As I said...

... I wish his apology had been stated in his own words, rather than so clearly have been written by a lawyer.

Would have been easier to see it as sincere, and accept that he really IS sorry, had that been so.

by Al on Apr 28, 2006 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Young should return, after he serves a very long suspension. However this is not a matter of "he who is without sin shall cast the first stone". We as humans are endowed with the ability to judge right from wrong. Whether we choose to use that ability is up to us. I don't see why standing up to what is clearly wrong, a horrid example for children and dangerous behavior for society is a bad thing. It simply amazes me the things that go on in sports that are permissable that would get people in every day life arrested. Like it or not, athletes are role models and when we root on players like Barry Bonds we set the tone for children that they should do whatever it takes to get to the top, damned the consequences, damned whoever you trample to get there.

My point was, if I were the Devil Rays President, GM or whatever, I'd ask baseball not to suspend him, I'd want to do it myself. Young is an investment for the team and they need to reign in his behavior. This is not the first time Young has had problems. He has a history of anger and behavioral problems. I do not know about the Marichel situation and it sounds like MLB didn't do what it should have, however just because they erred in that situation doesn't mean that they should do so again. The Devil Rays should set the tone not just for their organization but for sports as a whole and say that this is how things should be done. I applaude the Philadelphia Eagles for kicking Terrell Owens to the curb last year. If I were in charge of the Giants I'd do the same thing to Bonds.

DmL

by dmlichte on Apr 27, 2006 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is the difficulty i have with that

We as humans are endowed with the ability to judge right from wrong.

is that you know nothing. i know nothing. neither of us have seen the man, let alone the incident.

we as men live by laws -- and the law should punish him, NOT MEN. the point of having law is to curtail as severely as possible the fallible judgment of men. doing so is what keeps society functional.

baseball is dysfunctional in this regard -- it has no fixed proscriptions for assaulting an umpire, for example. but it should. to the extent that you're complaining about baseball's lawlessness, dml, i completely agree.

but when the sentence is completed, let it be over. this idea of holding a grudge is a great way to undermine social conventions and function, a concession to an antisociety of personal paranoia. forgive as you would seek forgiveness. young may be troubled -- all the more reason to forgive and embrace.

by gaius marius on Apr 28, 2006 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem is

that ballplayers, and pro athletes in general, are almost never held to account for what they've done. Not in the way that regular people are, anyway. Most people would lose their job for showing up drunk, taking a baseball bat to another employee, etc.

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 28, 2006 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your Post Would Be fFunny If It Weren't So Sad

"But saying that I'm too good to be on (or cheer for) the same team as someone like Delmon Young is on is a kind of self-righteousness I could do without."

I'd offer you could use a little more of it if you truly feel this way, and you obviously want us to think you do. Since you brought up Marichal, as good a pitcher as he was, what he did was assault Roseboro with a deadly weapon. He should have been tossed from baseball and done time. If he does that on a city playground we wouldn't even be arguing the point. Too many sports incidents like that get excused because they happened on a professional field of play.

But as for Young, he should be done for the year. Period. He threw a frickin' bat at an umpire at a fairly high rate of seed. Again, if I did that to you on the street I'd be sitting in a cell right now. There's no excusing it, no coddling it, no way around behavior like this. Young still for time to redeem himself, but as has been reported, he's got a history of this. And I sure don't want assholes with a proclivity for criminal behavior on the team I root for.

by BeerCub on Apr 27, 2006 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seed, speed

by BeerCub on Apr 27, 2006 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

John Roseboro

would disagree with you.

And I seriously doubt he would be doing time for throwing a bat at someone that caused no injury. My wife was locked up in a room and assaulted by a woman who punched her repeatedly in the face and broke her nose. The punishment? One year's probation. (AND THIS WAS NOT IN CALIFORNIA, SO DON'T SAY IT WAS JUST CRAZY CALIFORNIA.)

So don't tell me he'd be doing time for that on the playground. It wouldn't even go to trial. This country is too damn busy locking up people for having a ten milligrams of cocaine to lock up people for something like this.

What you said would be funny if it weren't so true of the self-righteous nature of society today. Like I said, must be fun being the Shadow.

by Josh77 on Apr 27, 2006 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heh

Being a prosecutor here in California, I'll have to take issue with you. I could not care less what the victim thought in the case of Marichal. Assaults like that do not go unpunished. And while you're trying to be smug with your "shadow" remark, I'll take it as a compliment, and hope for your sake you realize it as well someday.

by BeerCub on Apr 27, 2006 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know

I wouldn't be so smug if you weren't so condescending. (Hey! I can think of one thing I can hold against you! But I won't.) The woman who broke my wife's nose did not go to jail. I never said it went unpunished. But I seriously doubt that a bat tossing that resulted in no injury would send a first offender to prison. If it does, I think my tax dollars are being wasted. (Actually, I know they're being wasted--but I accept that as a price of living in a civilized society.)

But just for you I'll go down to the county jail and heckle people as they walk out.

by Josh77 on Apr 27, 2006 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh

I think I've got a little misunderstanding. I brought up Marichal and then I started talking about Young without a clear transition. I was thinking you were talking about Young going to jail, not Marichal.

I guess one thing you can hold against me for as long as I live is not reading carefully enough.

Yeah, I actually agree that Marichal would have done time for what he did. Not a lot, but some. But I for one am glad that he wasn't kicked out of baseball and he actually became a productive member of society rather than a shiftless ex-con that can't get a job and ends up being a drain on society.

by Josh77 on Apr 27, 2006 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you must be

Assaults like that do not go unpunished.

a very young prosecutor, bc.

by gaius marius on Apr 28, 2006 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

by BeerCub on Apr 29, 2006 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

a bunch of thugs?

based on one incident you call him a thug? do you know anything at all about the guy beyond this one incident? he's 21 years old and my guess is you have absolutely no knowledge on which you're basing this one flip of a bat that hurt nobody. is a suspension warranted? absolutely.

but this bravado - character counts - is just silly considering how little any of us know about current cubs as people.

All will be fixed in 2006

by DSZ on Apr 27, 2006 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Young

He has had previous incidents. He bumped an umpire last season. He has also developed a reputation as a malcontent and has let his unhappyness about playing this season in the minors well known.

DmL

by dmlichte on Apr 27, 2006 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he should be unhappy

about playing in the minors. this certainly does not excuse his behavior in regards to the umps, but his frustration about still being in the minors is absolutely justified.

last year the devil rays did not bring him up in september because they didn't want him to accrue any mlb service time. if this is his way of trying to get the devil rays to trade him, i think it's obviously misguided.

but if he were available and the price were reasonable, i would want hendry to trade for him without hesitation.

All will be fixed in 2006

by DSZ on Apr 28, 2006 7:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you kidding?

This isn't about "good citizenship". The guy threw a freaking bat at the umpire. I'd take plenty of players on my team who have made mistakes or are not the fan friendliest. I may even take Delmond Young. However what he did, along with the past record that this guy has, cannot be tolerated. If I were the Tampa GM, I'd suspend him for a year. I would not release him. I'd do it because I want him to be a part of my team and this is my opportunity to tell him what terms that is going to be on. It is also telling every other player in my orgaization what the terms are.

Winning is why we root for the Cubs but the win above all else mentality really scares me about society. This is what causes Giants fans to root for Barry Bonds under the spectre of tremendous evidence that he is a cheat. I am not a religious person and I will not preach about morals. However all too often we are willing to look past what is right and what is wrong for the same of getting what we want.

DmL

by dmlichte on Apr 27, 2006 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't really

argue with what you are saying about punishment. I'm not saying that I think he should get off without punishment. I'm just saying that once he's served his punishment, he should have a chance to start anew. I kind of think that's America, but most people just think I'm a communist for thinking stuff like that.

But what would you have done with Juan Marichal? Answer me that because what Marichal did was a hell of a lot worse than what Young just did. Why weren't we booing Marichal as he sat in the booth for the WBC?

Delmon Young=threw a bat from a distance that hit an umpire in the arm.

Juan Marichal=took a baseball bat and clubbed it over John Roseboro's head.

I know which one I think is worse. And we don't seem to be shunning Marichal wherever he goes.

by Josh77 on Apr 27, 2006 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, it's not.

Ben Christensen, anyone?

by Matt Allison on Apr 28, 2006 4:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He may be a jerk

and have a major temper problem and/or violent streak, but the guy is the absolute dead-lock #1 prospect in the minors.

I'd trade for him and hope for the best. Luckily for you, there is absolutely no chance that the Devil Rays will trade him. None.

He may not win any merit badges for good behavior, but he's got a good chance to win a couple of MVP awards.

Get used to him. He's going to be around for a while.

by Josh77 on Apr 27, 2006 10:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If anybody wants to see the video...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wW0tuz3_Hgc&search=delmon%20young

He overreacted, but if he turns out to be a dud in the majors, I'm sure this'll be all we'll remember him by.

Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?

by Keith on Apr 27, 2006 10:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

In his defense

That was not a strike these scabs have an ugly strike zone he was ejected for standing there for what seemed to be 20 seconds didn't say anything to the umpire.

Shouldn't have been tossed shouldn't have been called a strike, and he shouldn't have tossed the bat.

That being said if the Devil Rays want to give up on him for Rich Hill and Jerome Williams call him up bring him up and let him play 1b he can also play OF but theres no chance in ehll they would be willing to do something like that

by cubsfan2883 on Apr 27, 2006 10:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Of course

the fact that the ump is a scab is no defense.

I will not defend what he did in any way shape or form. I will defend Delmon Young and his right to play baseball AFTER he serves a very long suspension. And I will not judge the content of a man's character whom I have never met on the basis of one incident.

by Josh77 on Apr 27, 2006 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They'll make an example of him

that's for sure. But I agree with you - he should serve a long suspension, the Rays should hang on to him, and then he can start over. If it gets to a point where this is becoming a continuous problem, sure, I'd have to really consider his value to my organization.

But for now, they should really (I mean really) punish him - but once he's done with that, give him a chance to redeem himself.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on Apr 27, 2006 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm confused

I don't want to sound like a jerk but the fact that the umpire is a replacement one is SO immaterial to the events at hand that I am shocked that anyone would even mention that.

You NEVER Throw a bat at an umpire and if Delmon thought he could get away with it because he is a replacement umpire, well, Delmon is even MORE immature than I thought. He threw a bat at an umpire. That's all that matters.

by tal1286 on Apr 28, 2006 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re

That's a suspension for the rest of the year.

There are some lines you just don't cross. Assaulting an umpire is clearly one of them.

I don't care what Young's history is, if it were up to me, he'd be done with baseball in 2006 and have the opportunity to find out what making $7 / hour at Wal-Mart is all about.

by Jed Taylor on Apr 28, 2006 3:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

hmm.

"Judge not, least ye be judged."

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

I find it funny that moral relativists continue to quote from a book that they usually refer to as mythology. You are also judging someone when you refer to them as being self-righteous for what you consider to be intolerance.

Have you ever heard of the term "the court of public opinion"? Well it is my opinion that Delmon Young is a punk that needs to be suspended for the season.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Apr 28, 2006 8:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it can be both

a myth and a source of great human wisdom. that is, after all, what myths are.

refuting that wisdom because you want to destroy someone you don't know for what you perceive they've done is the height of abdication of the entire christian philosophy. "the court of public opinion" is the lowest standard, not the highest.

by gaius marius on Apr 28, 2006 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I consider...

..."the court of public opinion's" importance a little higher than you consider it. It is an obligation for society to hold into account it's citizens actions, whether they be moral or immoral.

One of the precepts of moral relativity is not judging immoral behaivor. This in turn has changed the definition of tolerance and in-tolerance thereby leaving our society morally vacuous.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Apr 28, 2006 10:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it is the obligation of LAW

not men, cf4l. it's law that keeps us from engaging in the sort of unconsidered personal whim upon which relativism is founded.

and the "court of public opinion" is nothing else -- the ridiculous and frequently stupid suppositions of masses of animals acting in herds -- engaging in the complete forfeiture of their god-given rational and contemplative souls.

morality in law is all there is for us, sir, if we are to approach god. on that i'm sure we can agree.

by gaius marius on Apr 28, 2006 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One of many...

...human traits that we all share is the desire for acceptance. Therefore our opinions of others whether good or bad weigh on an individual more than you would like to acknowledge. The very idea of what someone would think about that individuals actions plays just as big a part as the law in preventing the individual from taking that next step toward criminal behaivor.

In recent years our society as a whole has become more "tolerant", not because we have evolved or we are more enlightened but rather the definition for what is tolerant and in-tolerant has partly changed. Many of us don't want to be caught on the side of what is now deemed "intolerant" because we fear society's scorn of various labels.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Apr 28, 2006 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs