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Hooray!

Our long national nightmare is over. -- Gerald R. Ford, on taking the Presidential oath of office, August 9, 1974.

OK, so last night's 8-1 Cub win over the Giants, snapping the 8-game losing streak, didn't quite have the impact of a Presidential resignation.

But it sure felt good, didn't it?

I'm going to keep this post fairly short, as there's a relatively quick turnaround to today's afternoon game. That could be a real positive thing, too, if the Cubs can win this afternoon -- that'd be two wins in less than 24 hours, and a chance to have that long plane ride back from California feeling good.

Eight runs. That is as many runs as the Cubs had scored in their previous four games. In fact, it's as many runs as they'd scored in their previous SIX games, because the two before the four mentioned were both shutouts.

Carlos Zambrano threw a very, very nice game for the second straight outing, and finally -- 33 games and eight starts into the season -- got his first win. I fell asleep again -- even though I didn't have to get up for work today, I have a hard time staying up late -- but did manage to see the called third strike he slipped past Barry Bonds in the fifth inning. (I also woke up right when the last out was being registered, so I could go to sleep knowing they'd won, and turn the TV off. This is NOT the first time this has happened.)

Not having the time or inclination to look this up, anyone know how many called third strikes Bonds has seen in the last few years? It can't be many -- since 2003 he's only struck out 115 times total, or about what Jacque Jones does every year.

Speaking of Jones -- hmmm. He homered and doubled and drove in four runs and if you look at his stat line this morning -- 25-for-93, four doubles, 6 HR, 15 RBI, 5 BB, 21 strikeouts -- those numbers are almost precisely Jones' career norms.

I'm not saying he's a good player -- he's not -- nor am I saying the Cubs should have spent $16 million on him -- they shouldn't; only saying that it appears they got exactly what they should have expected.

If Dusty Baker would just put a righthanded hitter out there during the times the Cubs face lefties, he'd become even more useful. Against righthanders (and the Cubs will be facing them throughout the San Diego and Washington series coming up, and also today with Jamey Wright), Jones is now hitting .320/.358/.613 -- that's All-Star level production. He is 1-for-18 vs. lefties with five strikeouts.

If WE know this, why is it that Dusty Baker doesn't know this?

If you didn't see the game, you missed hearing Juan Pierre being roundly booed on his first trip to the plate. Good. I hope the Cubs prevent Bonds from hitting ANY home runs during this series.

I guess the reason that Ryan Dempster was chosen to throw the 9th inning of an 8-1 blowout is because he had pitched only once in the previous nine days (Monday in San Diego). He threw only nine pitches, which means he should be fine if needed for a save situation today.

You feel pretty good this morning, right? Losing streaks always end. Eight-game streaks are no fun for anyone -- players, coaches, managers, or we the fans. It has been pointed out to me many times that teams that lose this many games in a row rarely, if ever, come back to make the playoffs.

I have responded, both privately and here, that there have been teams (notably, last year's Astros) that, while they never lost 8 in a row, did have tremendous losing for an extended period of time. Houston last year, for example, in their 15-30 start, had a seven-game losing streak and three separate six-game streaks.

Losing eight is just one more game. Statistically, yes, maybe teams that lose eight in a row don't make the playoffs.

But I shall repeat something here that my friend Dave, who has forgotten more baseball than I'll ever know, has said to me: "Just when you think you know everything about baseball, something happens that reminds you that you don't."

Words to live by. There are still 129 games remaining in this season. Keep the faith. There'll be an open game post sometime around lunchtime today.

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We're back...
.....on the road to the World Series!!!! hahaha, ok well at least we're back in the W column. It's a start.

Now if only we can shut out Bonds one more game, and win it ofcourse, I think we'll be able to call this a successful series.

Tony U La Grange, IL

by tony412 on May 11, 2006 9:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Finally we can resume playoff talk around here now
Good thing we got that win under our belts!  Let's start printing up the playoff tickets Al!

:-)

by peorianorthsidereport on May 11, 2006 9:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Last night's win
almost felt like a playoff game to me, in terms of the exhilaration I felt whenever the Cubs got a hit or Z punched out a batter. (Especially Barry.) It wasn't too different, actually - I really think this was a "must-win" game, even though there are still 129 games left.

Yeah, it felt GOOD.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 9:14 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It may have felt good
but I don't see any comparison with playoff baseball. A CWS elimination game will have more intensity than the ballgame lastnight.

by ccd on May 11, 2006 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank god..
..we are back to day baseball.  The next 4 games start at 3:30, 2:20, 2:20, 2:20 (EST).  West coast trips are brutal!
Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on May 11, 2006 9:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Baker named Worst manager Maxim mag.
Maxim magaizine lists the worst managers and Dusty was #1. (who knew Maxim mag. had articles anyway?)

So when do the Cubs read the writing on the wall and fire the Reverand Dusty B. Baker?

I defended DB for the last 2 1/2 years but I am at my wits end. His brand of managing isn't right with the current make up of this team. He looks like he's sleeping.

Enter Lou Pinella, just sitting here in Tampa looking for another sweet gig. Lou has managed a World Champion (Reds) not just taken a team there.

Lou's fire and passion would be a great fit for the Cubs and Chicago.

Would Hendry, Wood and Prior conspire to delay there coming back until after Baker is replaced? The case gets stronger the longer Wood and Prior don't come back. If they do come back and pitch well then DB gets and extention and we Cub fans live in the mess we have right now. I say fire DB now while we have a chance.

May 21.

Cleverly Disguised as a Responsible Adult

by Scott G F on May 11, 2006 9:18 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Lou also managed
the hapless Devil Rays. Yeah, I know, it was the Devil Rays, but you can't say the Cubs have a whole lot more firepower at the moment, can you?

Then again, it's worth thinking about.

Orel for Pitching Coach.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A needed change
Im sick of defending DB. Another possbile candidate would be Davie Johnson. But I can't help to like Lou P.
Cleverly Disguised as a Responsible Adult

by Scott G F on May 11, 2006 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coddling and disciplinarians
DB is a coddler and Lou Pinella and Davie Johnson are disciplinarians. This Cubs team needs the disciplinarian touch. The coddling isn't working with this group of players.
Cleverly Disguised as a Responsible Adult

by Scott G F on May 11, 2006 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree
when you say that the Cubs can't be coddled any longer. It's true. I just don't...trust...LP...

There comes a point in time where the advice of a wise sage becomes the incoherent ramblings of a crazy man. Just sayin'.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What evidence do you have...
... that a disciplinarian would make any difference?

by Al on May 11, 2006 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al I don't
Any evidence of a manager being repaced during the season can be attributed to several factors. I cannot isolate the disciplinarians out. It's the players that respond to the manager and right now it seems to me that DB's style isn't working wiht the Cubs. They need a more animated person person that will hold each player accountable. That isn't what's happening today.
Cleverly Disguised as a Responsible Adult

by Scott G F on May 11, 2006 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The reason the Cubs lost 8 straight...
... is that they stopped hitting.

You think a disclipinarian yelling at them is going to change that?

by Al on May 11, 2006 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No
Al you have been witnessing the last 2 seasons. 04 and 05 were hard to watcha dn to understand why the Cubs fell apart. Why they were more interested in what Steve Stone was saying, more interested in kicking fans and sleeping in the club house! The 8 game losing streaks will continue and people will blame everything from Day games to the sun but the root cause Dusty Baker himself. He's blaming Hendry for not getting a left handed batting pitcher to prepare his team for the field. Sorry but isn't that Dusty's responsibility? Dusty's a fraud and makes hurrendous in game choices. I say make the changes now before the words "wait till next year" become reality.
Cleverly Disguised as a Responsible Adult

by Scott G F on May 11, 2006 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you...
... that many of Baker's in-game choices are not good.

I still don't see why you think getting a disciplinarian would get the team to start hitting.

by Al on May 11, 2006 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Focus
Hitting is all about focus and there are people that spark that focus and some that do not. Dusty strikes me as some that doesn't were as Pinella will get you focused in the game. Not Karma, not day games or big bad Stoney.
Cleverly Disguised as a Responsible Adult

by Scott G F on May 11, 2006 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re
Lou also understands that sometimes the best way to get your team fired up emotionally is to get into it with the umps over a call that's gone against you.  Doing so sends the message that the manager has their backs and that it's us against them, including the umps.

Baker just sits there.  On the rare occasion he leaves the dugout, he might exchange a few words, but he never challenges them, and never uses the opportunity to try to spark his team.  Unless, of course, it involves yelling at LaRussa.  Maybe if we could just make all the umps into LaRussa clones, Baker would be more engaging.  Of course, his ego would explode in the process.

by Jed Taylor on May 12, 2006 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
and possibly some time-outs would have been appropriate, too.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I always
fall back on the dunce cap method.

Either that or the "Dissing Your Dog: How to train your puppy with mockery and verbal humiliation"

Fussy eating habits..

"Oh, right, Margaret, you wanted prime rib. Here's the deal: The Palm wasn't taking reservations, and I didn't even try Morton's because I understand they have a new chef. So for now, let's just go with the Alpo, okay? I know it's not your first choice but keep in mind, you're a f--king dog! "

she

by Sarah Hope on May 11, 2006 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bill James...
...did a study that showed that teams benefit from a change in temperment (ie. Enabler->Disciplinarian or vice-versa).

by jolietconvict on May 11, 2006 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

argh, Bill James
Bill James, Schmill James.
--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I remember that study...
... and as I recall, it showed that teams that REPLACE disciplinarians with easy-going guys (example: 1982 Brewers) do well, but NOT vice-versa.

by Al on May 11, 2006 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll have to...
...check.  I don't have the original study, but there's a reference to it in the book "The Mind of Bill James" (which I recommend by the way).

by jolietconvict on May 11, 2006 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and the results were?
I don't have that reference. Could you share that. I'm alway looking for more data. As of right now with this team I say a Lou Pinella type person is needed.
Cleverly Disguised as a Responsible Adult

by Scott G F on May 11, 2006 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A good example of a disciplinarian taking over...
Was in 2003 in Miami when Torborg was canned and Trader Jack came into manage. IMO: this Cub team does not have the talent of the 2003 Fish. But there's an example of it working.

Teams tend to go back and forth between players managers and disciplinarians.

by ccd on May 11, 2006 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You think...
... McKeon is a disciplinarian? That's not my impression of him.

by Al on May 11, 2006 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Compared to Dusty
Mother Theresa would be a disciplinarian.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh heh
You didn't go to Catholic school, did you?

Mother T would be bustin' out the yardstick on every strikeout.

And I, for one, think a good dugout paddlin' is what this team needs.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I did
elementary school, anyway.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice.
"Strike out...that's a paddlin'...don't cover first...that's a paddlin'...can't lay down a bunt...that's definitely a paddlin'..."

Simpsons reference? Anyone?

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No doubt about it
Trader Jack was very much a disciplinarian.
Cleverly Disguised as a Responsible Adult

by Scott G F on May 11, 2006 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about...
...when Phil Garner took over the Astros in 2004?  He's certainly a bigger ball-buster than Jimy Williams.  

I think the disciplinarian effect DOES have a short-term effect.  

You still need the players though, and I'm not sure if the Cubs have them or not.

by MikeJ on May 11, 2006 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al, McKeon was known as a disciplinarian.
That's why they hired the guy, he was a shot in the arm compared to the mild mannered Jeff Torborg.

It is also the reason he wears out his welcome most places he manages. Reportedly, Marlins players could not stand him in 2004 and 2005. I heard similar stories about McKeon when he managed the Padres and Reds.

by ccd on May 11, 2006 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there's a school of management
not baseball management specifically, but management theory altogether -- that says coddlers and hardliners should always be alternated in overseeing groups. one is put in pplace, does well for a time, then begins to overdo it, bad habits set in, the manager loses control -- things go too far, essentially -- and his opposite becomes desirable. then the cycle starts all over again.

i'm all for it. would love to see a crazy lou pinella in here.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
I'd like to see what Pinella could do as well.  Hey, he had the stones to kick Rob Dibbles ass, that's all the convincing I need.

Manuel replacing Bowa didn't work out so well at first, but now it doesn't look so bad.  At least their little streak will help him keep his job a little longer.

by pageian on May 11, 2006 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why is it, then...
... that Baker was successful for TEN years with the Giants, after having one good year his first year, then three poor ones?

<tongue firmly in cheek>

Also, I do not think the Cubs should ever be allowed to hire the former Tampa Bay manager until everyone here can spell his name right.

</tongue firmly in cheek>

It's

P I N I E L L A

by Al on May 11, 2006 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Dusty Years Jumped the Shark
The Cubs would like to introduce M.r. Lou P I N I E L L A
Cleverly Disguised as a Responsible Adult

by Scott G F on May 11, 2006 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

NO LOU!!!!!!
I, like many have started to sour on Baker (I perhaphs in the tail end of that group).  Honestly, the reason I think most want a disciplinarian type manager is that WE are frustrated and WE want to smack guys like Hairston around, wince WE can't let's get a manager who will.  Will this make the team better, maybe, maybe not, that is certainly debatable and unanswerable.

Here is why I say no way to a guy like Lou.  He would be our third straight "celebrity" manager.  My biggest gripe with Baker, is whether he views himself as bigger than the team.  With a guy like Baker, or Sweet Lou, as soon as things go sour you are stuck.  Right now we are left to wonder whether Dusty really wants to manage the Cubs, or would rather be in SF or AZ or LA.  Wouldn't there be the same questions with Lou, just change the team to NY?  I want a manager who comes in and is committed to winning and winning with the Cubs, and views himself as part of the team/system.  

My personal preference is towards the players manager type, but more important than that, I don't want a manager whose ego gets in the way of good managing.  I am starting (reluctantly) to think that we might be seeing that with Dusty,  and it wouldn't take long for the same thing to happen with Lou.  I wish Girardi was available, but there are other guys like him out there that I would much rather have than Lou, keep him AWAY!

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on May 11, 2006 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

More no Lou!
One thing that ticks me off about the Cubs, and Chicago in general is the second city approach.  Too often we are reactionary rather than visionary.  We pick up players who are wearing out (Pierre) rather than develop from within.  Take guys who have a big name from past glories (Baker, Lou for example), rather than guys who are budding stars, either from within our own system or plucked from elsewhere.  

If Baker goes, I want the Cubs to show some vision and give someone a chance who might be great.  Chris Speier might be a good internal option who could be hired as a temporary guy as a "try-out".  Please, NO LOU!!!!!!!  Do we want him ditching us like he did Seattle?!?!?!?!

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on May 11, 2006 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another no Lou
While I agree that getting a manager with a different personality type is the way to go, I don't think that Piniella's the guy the Cubs need.  He'd bring much the same drama that Dusty does.  What the Cubs need is someone who is not only more fiery and more of a disciplinarian than Dusty, but also someone who is a little more, shall we say, mentally stable.  That's not Piniella.  Really for their last 3 managerial hires the Cubs have gone the easy route and taken the available big name.  Let's not do that again. (It may be hard to believe now, but when Wriggleyman was hired 11 years ago he was widely thought of as a brilliant manager who had just been stuck with no talent in San Diego).
In Dusty we busty

by jc60625 on May 11, 2006 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no problem
i've certianly got no objection to bypassing pin*I*ella. but find someone who can credibly chew aramis ramirez's ass. to some extent, the reputation helps. players get swooned by celebrity too.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ramirez
He needs to have his ass chewed. It has really beome tiresome to watch this guy lolly-gag around the field. Aramis has tremendous talent, an he's a good third baseman. But the blatant lack of hustle that he shows on a game in and game out basis is really pathetic.

by ccd on May 11, 2006 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agrred
About A-Ram.  Although if Dusty's gone I'll miss getting my blood boiling in the morning by reading him say that Ramirez isn't hustling to protect his quad or groin or various other leg muscle.
In Dusty we busty

by jc60625 on May 11, 2006 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep in mind..
..that Lou was highly critical of the Ray's management for their unwillingness to bring in quality vets and add to payroll.  His "win now" mentality seems to be in step with the Cubs lack of developing position players.  Could be a good or a bad thing depending on your disposition.  
Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on May 11, 2006 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No to Piniella
Piniella is just a hard-assed version of Dusty Baker.  He has almost exactly the same tendencies as a manager--he won't play rookies, he stretches out his starters, builds a weak bench with veterans and eschews statistical analysis in favor of his gut.

You want Piniella as the next Cub manager if you think Dusty Baker would be perfect if his players hated him.  Most (although not all) of us think that Dusty's ability to get along with his players is his one strengths and not the only thing about him that we'd want to change.

Most Devil Rays fans thought less of Piniella by the time he left than we think of Dusty.

by Josh77 on May 11, 2006 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want Pinella, either
I want Jack McKeon.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's very fair
the manager you're describing as an antidote to baker sounds a lot like joe torre or tony larussa.

i'm game.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right Al
Stranger things have happened.  We'd have to lose our next 12 games to equal the Astros record last year!  We've still got a chance!

by pageian on May 11, 2006 9:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

shhhh!

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lol
Gaius, you have to admit that there's a little bit of logic in stating that we are not hopelessly done for the season since a team that had the same number of wins but 12 more losses just came within a few outs of going to the World Series.  We aren't mathmatically eliminated and there is a long season full of many unforseen changes and opportunities ahead.  If you give up this easy then yeah, you'll never have a chance.

by pageian on May 11, 2006 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweet
I'm not going to take any money out of the ATM because I know someone who found a 20-dollar bill on the ground once.

by jolietconvict on May 11, 2006 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly
the whole offseadon when we weren't building a winner it was "the white sox didn't look like a winner either this time last year" and now when they are sucking it up "well other teams have come back being this far down."  How about building a good team for once, and you know, actually being able to expect good things instead of hoping for miracles.

by mike bornemann on May 11, 2006 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

logic vs experience
agreed, pageian -- rationally, no one can discount it.

however, there are limits to the power of rationality and possibility. in the end, what rules our lives is experience and probability -- and that's what i would advocate paying more attention to.

I'm not going to take any money out of the ATM because I know someone who found a 20-dollar bill on the ground once.

this is logically valid but probabilistically crazy.

so it hanging on for this team this year. the evidence strongly suggests that they're cooked.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure but...
I guess I just don't have as bad an outlook as some do.  Look, we've got three very good pitchers on the DL right now who should be back soon.  Is it wrong to place too much faith in them?  Of course, but it's also not wrong to expect them to come back and pitch well.  Our best position player is also on the DL and we have a pretty good idea of when he'll be back.  Who says we can't get better?

Let's say Prior, Wood, Miller and Lee come back, and let's say Guzman, Hill and (i dunno) Rusch aren't pitching for this team two months from now and Bynum isn't playing for it.  How would you like our chances then?

What happens if the week after we sell off all of our tradeable parts Pujols hurts his back from the weight of carrying the Cardinals, Carpenters arm falls of, The Rocket finds some dignity and decides to retire and Berkman overslides second and breaks his leg on the left field wall at the juice box and we still end up losing the division because we gave up so early?

by pageian on May 11, 2006 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm tired of...
... hearing you every day keep harping on "probabilities".

This isn't a spreadsheet we are rooting for.

It is a baseball team, filled with human beings who, believe it or not, don't always perform the way "probabilities" say they should. Neither do the other baseball teams against whom they compete.

Keep your nose in your stat sheets if you like. Doesn't sound like much fun to me.

by Al on May 11, 2006 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spreadsheet Team
Is the paperclip animation gonna bat cleanup?

by akcubfan on May 11, 2006 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know what...
...doesn't sound like much fun to me?  Having unrealistic hopes and having your heart broken every year.  I'll be disappointed if the Cubs don't do well this year, but I won't be heart broken because I'm not hoping for some miracle turnaround.  If they do have a miracle turnaround though, I'll enjoy just as much as anyone else.  Following this team is depressing enough without building up unrealistic visions of miracle comebacks.  That's just me though.

by jolietconvict on May 11, 2006 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking for myself, at least
It's still just a game. I'm not guaranteeing a miracle comeback, thereby setting myself up for heartbreak. I'm realizing that there are a lot of things that need to be done before that can happen, and I'm not blindly believing in this club.

But writing this team off right now is just silly, and I honestly don't see why anyone without a shred of hope still bothers.

There's a phrase for people like that.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i, for one, have plenty of hope
for 2007 and 2008.

but why people would continue to waste time and resources on a lost cause is beyond me.

and why people in an age blessed by information would continue to live in willful ignorance of just what a deep, deep hole this club is in also mystifies me.

not wanting to believe they're in all probability out of it in may doesn't trump the reality of long experience.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough
I just don't understand why it's such a crime to continue to cheer for the 2006 franchise.

And the blessing of information is a curse in itself. For me (and this is me, personally), Adjusted ERAs, Win Shares, Runs Created, and all of that stuff may give me a better GM's eye, but I'm not a GM. I'm a fan. And those numbers and spreadsheets and calculators (for me) sucks all of the joy out of the game.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps i can ask
why the fun goes out of it for just that, scorcho? do you feel you need a component of mysticism to enjoy it?

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No,
Again, that's just me. You enjoy the game how you want to.

Do you need to analyze everything and reduce baseball to a grouping of numbers to enjoy it? Apparently. That's where we differ.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
no one's ever accused me of being thoughtless and unconsidered, it's true.

i submit that if i were you -- and yes, i am not :) -- i'd spend at least enough time examining why you like sport to get a cursory answer (though it is certainly a life's pursuit). you might be surprised at what you discover about yourself.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know exactly why...
... and what Sarah wrote below echoes my feelings.

I am not telling you what to do, Gaius. All I ask is that you not tell the rest of us how to follow and root for our favorite baseball team.

Do as you wish, but do not criticize others for their feelings. Frankly, those are none of your business.

by Al on May 11, 2006 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

again, all you seek
is disengagement and escape. "leave me alone -- i leave you alone!"

do you not see the dysfunction of that?

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I don't.
Dysfunction of what?

That makes no sense.

by Al on May 11, 2006 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who said...
...stop cheering?  I'm not advocating that everybody  cut off all contact with the team until next year.  I'm just gonna sit here crossing my fingers and thinking Dusty and the Boys will save the day.  The question, which makes more sense hanging on to miniscule hopes (ie. playing Kerry Wood when he needed surgery last year) for a miraculous comeback or doing everything you can to ensure that you're competitive in 2007 and beyond?

by jolietconvict on May 11, 2006 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh
"I'm just not"

by jolietconvict on May 11, 2006 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly
you can follow the team while recognizing that this year for the team is over. it surely would have served this team well last august to do so.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know boys..
when 3 year olds have tantrums, we tell them to use their words.

It's not what makes more sense.  Because it shouldn't have to be a choice between the two.  Why is it so inconceivable (shout out to the non-baseball thread) to have hope and plan for the future?  I thought they went hand in hand.

What's more is that what is wrong with communing with fellow believers?  Being a part of a greater collective heartbeat that is flowing and bleeding cubbie blue?  John Donne said, "No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main."  There's nothing wrong with optimism.  There's nothing wrong with believing in the present and the future.

There's also a sweet simple pleasure in the things we do, not because they make sense, but because we simply want to.  There's something magical about something you put your heart into and act deliberately and by choice - not by coercion of immediate necessity or what you may be told is the a  rational ideal.

I personally believe that believing in something bigger than your understanding can explain is good for the soul.  It helps you grow.  But to give up - to refuse to grow - is to die.

And I'll get off my soapbox for the day so Jed can come and piss and moan.

she

by Sarah Hope on May 11, 2006 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i have no problem with optimism, sarah
but i have a revulsion to the childlike optimism that thrives only on the denial of reality, as opposed to the mature optimism that acknowledges defeat and finds opportunity within it.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh no, friend.
No one here is denying reality.  You are pointing fingers in order to prove your point, and you know that's not fair.

Mature optimism is neither of those things.  It is simply accepting setbacks with grace, and realizing that the circumstances are only what you make it.

You have the power to make the best out of the circumstances you are dealt.  In no way does that imply that you give up. You can cloud this ability by maintaining a negative attitude, but why would you want to do that?  It's fruitless.  And you only bring others down in the process.  And I know you are a better person than to want the worst for those around you.

Whether you feel it or not, your life - every life -touches other lives.   Rich Mullins said, "Each of us warms the world or chills it inasmuch as we offer or withhold respect, hopitality, encouragement, etc.  In that sense, we are all parts of each other's well-being or sickness - and we affect the climate that we all share"

Just keep in mind how you are affecting the climate your'e sharing with others and how there isn't much to be accomplished by a negative attitude.

she

by Sarah Hope on May 11, 2006 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

we don't disagree
You have the power to make the best out of the circumstances you are dealt.

completely. but the first step has to be recognizing the circumstances.

i understand this year to be lost as far as winning something -- but i also understand this year now to be a great opportunity to make trades and play kids that will improve this club over the next few years. isn't that exactly making the best of these circumstances?

Whether you feel it or not, your life - every life -touches other lives.

would you please explain this to the poor souls here who feel that, whether or not they buy season tickets, it makes no difference to the cubs? :)

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aside
from Dionne Warwick's cronies and Miss Cleo, NO ONE -including you, my dear friend- has the ability to accept circumstances that have not happened yet!  
You, Mr. Logic - of all people - should know that you simply can not foretell the future of this team this year.  The games haven't been played, therefore, the outcome is still unknown.  If you'd like to pay $1.99/minute to find out, go right ahead.  And maybe we'll start considering your opinion on these matters as valid.

As far as buying season tickets, yes.  Every contribution counts.  But if you are eluding to the much-preached point that you should not give the team anymore money until they start following your demands, I will not.  Refusal to participate as a fan and calling yourself a fan is mere hypcocrisy and is the most utterly ridiculous attempt at tough love that I have ever heard of.  You are not a kidnapper, and the Cubs are not required to negotiate.  

It's a friggin' game, Gaius.

she

by Sarah Hope on May 11, 2006 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think the measure of your participation
is not in the dollars you spend.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok then,
what is it measured in?
she

by Sarah Hope on May 11, 2006 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You said it wasn't in
dollars, so i assume it is measured in something else?

Logic will tell you that, darling. :)

she

by Sarah Hope on May 11, 2006 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re
Actually, Sarah, it's a pleasure to see you're capable of expressive thought that extends beyond tautological platitudes.  I piss and moan when you take cheap shots at people, either singulary or collectively, to pump yourself up as being somehow above them, or you bend over backward to be in with the in-crowd.

This post encourages genuine discussion, and has the added benefit of being completely on-topic.  It would be nice to see more.

by Jed Taylor on May 12, 2006 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No,
you piss and moan.... ALL THE TIME.

You don't know me, your opinion of me is different everyday.  Just stop.  You're just losing any credibility you have left here.

I would say that the majority of this blog enjoy my posts and interaction with other bloggers more than your constant attempts to outcast yourself from society and get back at mommy not loving you the right way.

Just let it go and keep your snyde remarks to yourself.  Either that  or just go away.  I can't say anyone would notice or care.

she

by Sarah Hope on May 13, 2006 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re
So just what did you do with the money your parents gave you for your anger and projection therapy?

Why don't you just make a poll where everyone can tell you how popular you are so you can stop obsessing about it.

I'm always amused by the person who appoints himself spokesman for a group in order to bolster his own perspective and puff up his own standing, especially when it's a group as diverse as those who participate at BCB.  I guess my proxy statement for your coronation got lost in the mail.

In case you haven't noticed, the only person's opinion around here that really counts is Al's.  There's one of you in every crowd, Sarah.  The question is never if, it's who's it gonna be.

by Jed Taylor on May 13, 2006 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh dear
is there no limit to how ridiculous you allow yourself to get?

If you have some repressed anger over not being popular in highschool or ever, fine.  But don't unload on me.

I was simply saying that you might think that posts that are cheerful, that distract from the current misery, that entertain with humor and movie quote - you might think that those are inappropriate by your standards (which, again, no one cares about), but I would say that most people enjoy those more than your spewings that seemingly have no end in sight.

I'm asking you to let it go now because you are just digging yourself more of a hole.  We already don't like you.  Stop before we can't stand the sight of your posts so much that no one even bothers to respond.

she

by Sarah Hope on May 14, 2006 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and i'm tired of you
pretending you're still a third-grade girl who believes fairies and unicorns will swoop in and save this team if only you wish hard enough.

is this your new rote unthought dismissal of me? the Spreadsheet Epithet? lol.

the right spreadsheet will tell you a hell of a lot more about this club than you care to admit. not that you'll ever take the time to find out.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey now,
break it up. break it up

You know good and well that if you're tired of Al you can simply stop coming here.

Let's keep the gloves up fellas.

she

by Sarah Hope on May 11, 2006 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bad analogy
I don't think anyone's waiting for fairies and unicorns and magic spells. There are lots of posts made every day about how the ship can be righted. Does anyone honestly believe that we'll catch fire without any changes whatsoever being made?

All anyone's saying, Gaius, is that spreadsheets don't ever tell the whole story. Sure, they're good information tools, but games aren't played on paper, right?

(By the way, I think sabermetrics are just another way for a good ol' fashioned fan to ruin the fun of the game by relying exclusively on numbers to make a point.)

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don't understand
why knowing what's going on should "ruin the fun". and i think this goes to the very heart of the argument.

so many people have delves so deeply into escapism as a way of life that they can't seem to find happiness in the real world. so ridiculous larks like this one get bandied about, where every longshot horse comes in and every lost cause is saved because we dare not accept that we are in fact limited in some ways. it doesn't comport with our preferred nietzschean dreamworld, in which we can all do anything by force of will alone.

life, however, isn't hollywood. it's better. but to realize it, you have first to embrace the reality.

al's pushing 50 and still professes a small child's conception of fantasy optimism -- maybe he's a lost cause too that no one should be devoting resources toward.

but there are a lot of twentysomethings here that should at least contemplate how destructive that sort of constant fantasy-immanentization can be in a real life.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We've had this discussion already
You're taking the pseudo-psychology way too far. Embracing reality, IN THE REAL WORLD, is one thing. This is baseball.

As I said before, nobody is living in a dreamworld. I don't understand what is so horribly wrong about continuing to cheer for this team, while at the same time realizing (there's the keyphrase) that big things need to happen for this team to get on the right track.

You're getting agitated, you're getting negative, you're getting personal, you're getting downright nasty. For what? Don't you see how childish that is? You think your numbers can solve everything, and you're so wrapped up in it that you're forgetting that it's only a game, and that the rest of us aren't going to be damned for all eternity for turning on the radio every day and hoping to see the Cubs come out on top.

I'm done talking about this - we're obviously never going to see eye-to-eye.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if i believed that
i might agree.

the thing is, if baseball were "just baseball", would we build half-billion dollar temples to it? would senators threaten to legislate it? would millions around the world obsess over it?

no.

the reason these things happen is that baseball -- rather, sport -- is theater. it's a reflection of the society that creates it, is infused with its morality and its wisdom, and stands as a testament to who we think of ourselves as being and wanting to be.

no less than when voltaire wrote candide or shaw wrote pygmalion, sport today tells us who we are and are becoming. and how we react to and interact with it is therefore a matter of the highest possible importance.

constantly seeking escape from its difficult realities and professing that one's actions relative to it are inconsequential and meaningless is both a profoundly disturbing thing and a very great insight.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just as a final thought
Then our differences come down to our viewpoints on sports and its role in our society and the human psyche. I prefer to see it as just a game to be enjoyed, and nothing else.

I'm also a theatre professional, and I often get into these debates about Shaw, Voltaire, etc, etc, as you mentioned. I see theatre and sports as two supremely different things - any connections you want to make are yours alone. I don't subscribe to that.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'd suggest
examining more closely the relationship between theater, athletics and religion in human societies. you couldn't be more wrong, i think.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd suggest
That you're taking the historical origins of theatre as a product of religious rites and athletic events, and ignoring the sweeping changes of theatre and culture in general that have taken place over the past two millenia. The two have widely diverged since. You couldn't be more wrong about their connection in current society.

I'd suggest that when it comes down to being a fan of baseball and a student of theatre (and a religious person) I can benefit from all three separately.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don't think
they've headed down separate paths. where they diverge, they will again converge -- and they continue to serve similar ends.

let's take the classical period. we don't disagree i'm sure that both the olympic athletic tradition and the attic tragedy held roots in olympian religion. by the time of pericles, of course, they had diverged -- and later, in the secular individualism of the roman empire, even opposed one another.

that does not mean, however, that these institutions served opposing ends. while entertainment and escape ascended to dominance as they do in virtually all decayed societies, both sport and theater (along with literature) continued to produce tales which entered the popular lexicon as illustrative moral examples of what it meant to be (or not to be) a roman. the emperor commodus' unforgivable transgression into the colosseum, for example, or the staged recreations of great roman victories.

forward some further centuries, and the secular institutions of theater and sport simultaneously died with the ongoing collapse of roman civility, and their remains reabsorbed into religion via the nascent constantinian church.

forward again to the medieval period, and the church, having formalized the theater in the sacramental rites, gives birth with the re-emergence of individualism to liturgical passion plays. sport as such also reappeared at this same time in the rite of the provencal bullfight and chivalric contest.

and since the advent of modern secularism, they have diverged again -- but again continue to provide morality tales so less than theater -- from the black sox to bonds to the elevation of men like babe ruth and joe dimaggio to the status of a minor god, sport continues to provide a vehicle for defining ourselves.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They don't
serve opposing ends, you're correct, but you're taking their similarities and origins and attempting to connect them to a civilization that takes no stock in their origins as such. Not only that, you're trying to tell us that we should, for that reason, define our enjoyment of sports as such. And you're sneering at anyone who doesn't.

You can make your final comparison for any (ANY) facet in life. But what you're suggesting is that sports do and should hold some special significance that somehow should translate to how we look at the Cubs this season.

What I resent is that you're attempting to use academia and history to impose your  holier-than-thou attitude upon those who choose not to give up on this season.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re
An exceptional post, GM.

by Jed Taylor on May 12, 2006 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is PRECISELY why...
... many of us root the way we do.

Baseball IS an escape, theater, a way, as Jack Brickhouse used to say:

"to let these two managers worry about your cares for you..."

(OK, I'm paraphrasing.)

Good lord, man. Quit quoting Voltaire here. I know exactly what "reality" is. The reality is, the Cubs are six and a half games out of first place, with a team with holes.

There are ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY NINE games remaining. If you don't hope at that point, well, I feel there's no hope for you. Do as you wish, as I've said, but you have NO right to criticize others for feeling the way they do.

by Al on May 11, 2006 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the very fact
that you don't see a difference between theater and escape, al, speaks volumes.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know what? I'm not done
This is irritating me way too much, and I find I just can't leave this alone.

You harp about the connection between theatre and real life, conveniently ignoring major facts, and then you ridicule people for exactly the opposite.

You are so wrong that it actually hurts.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

which major facts?
we've got the next six months to fill up. i'd be happy to talk about it.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scroll up.
You may have the next six months to fill up, but I don't. There's a game in half an hour.
--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sheesh
By the way, I think sabermetrics are just another way for a good ol' fashioned fan to ruin the fun of the game by relying exclusively on numbers to make a point.

Yes it's much more fun to just make things up and wildly speculate.  Facts are stoopid!

by jolietconvict on May 11, 2006 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Read what you're saying
Nobody's wildly speculating or making up facts. You're reading what you want to read, and quite frankly, it's stupid and demeaning.

Just get your head out of the dang statbook and away from the calculator and Microsoft Excel and enjoy the game, for Pete's sake.

Sheesh.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re
This debate is one between Classicists (sp? and Romantics.  The Classicist sees the structure, the Romantic just wants to groove on the jazz.  Neither is wrong; they're just two different sides of the same coin.

While I definitely lean toward the numbers side of baseball, I also understand those who watch baseball primarily for its esthetics.  I get this because while I know very little about the game of hockey, I enjoy going to games just to watch the beauty of the movement.  Unlike so many other sports, I don't know the strategy behind it.  I don't even know more than the basic rules, and not even all of them.  But I can tell when a play has been well-executed because it speaks to my perception of beauty, and in doing so, clearly demonstrates quality.

Let's all keep in mind that most people see things in one of these two ways, but that doesn't make one way right and the other wrong.  For those interested in reading more about this, I highly recommend Robert Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

by Jed Taylor on May 12, 2006 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spreadsheets suck, Red Staplers Rule
Which BCB-er is most like Wilton  
Tony U La Grange, IL

by tony412 on May 11, 2006 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"They're Cooked"
Gaius, you're a piece of work.  You remind me of the cartoon character "Glum" from Gulliver's Travels.  The one who always said "we're all doomed" or "we'll never make it."

This guy: http://cyberend.com/culture/images/gulliverstravels_glum_01.jpg

Just for one day Gaius, can't you write something positive?  Anything?  Maybe just one thing like "Putting Ronny Cedeno at lead-off actually worked for a day?"

One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on May 11, 2006 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
i'm not saying that the world is ending. i'm saying that hope is better invested in 2007 and 2008 now, and that the team should be playing for then, not now.

there's no reason at all that the cubs can't win the world series in 2008. but it's going to take some planning. i personally think it's better to get started than keep dreaming about things that's never going to happen because we don't want to admit how wrong we were.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying
that you're saying that the world is ending.  I'm just saying it might be refreshing to point out a few positives every once in a while.  Give it some balance.  Even it was something like, "This team isn't likely going to the World Series, but it was nice to see Jacque Jones have some success at the plate."

In otherwords, say something positive every once in a while!  

You look nice today Gaius.  Have you lost weight?    

One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on May 11, 2006 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

how can you see me through the computer?
lol -- how about, "ryan dempster looks really good right now?"

the thing is, brian, that coming around for my daily cub affirmation gets really old really quickly. in my view, a forum like this is made to recognize, analyze and solve problems -- and god knows this team has a few. :) spending a lot of effort circle-jerking about the things that are right doesn't make a lot of sense to me. i find a lot more enjoyment in the work of solving problems than in basking in mutual gratuity.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll, I think I'm starting to get
a grasp of how your mind works -- if you enjoy solving problems, Cubs baseball must put you on cloud nine.  I will concede that there ARE problems and that discussing solutions to the problems are appropriate here.  I would simply suggest that there is more to baseball than focusing solely on the the problems.  A kind word here and there for Murton or Marshall -- players that have exceeded your expections, might be nice once in a while.

What say you?  

One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on May 11, 2006 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

surely
i think i do this once in a while -- though i'm sure no one remembers it. the controversy is what i'm remembered for, it would seem. i write longer bits for my crappy/unpopular blog doing the same. and i'll occasionally rhapsodize when i'm watching a ballgame -- quality enthuses me as much as anyone.

which is one of the reasons why i find the lack of it so worth analyzing, i suspect. :)

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
well, I suppose if you find analyzing the lack of quality play worth your time, I guess that's just the way it is.  I see no further point in trying to get you to point out some positives.  

They say you can catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar; in your case it would seem you have no interest in catching any flies in the first place.  No biggie.

I'd be amused if you'd at least make your signature line "Eamus Catuli".  You'd at least let people know that you are indeed rooting for the team -- and with a moniker like "Gaius Marius" I would think you'd enjoy invoking some Latin.  ;)  

One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on May 11, 2006 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re
I know where you're coming from, GM.  I can walk into a situation that's 99% perfect, and what I see is the 1% that's just begging for correction.  Why spend time on what's already right?  The effort should be focused on what's not.

Of course, that's created some friction between myself and those who are wired to desire affirmation.  Sound familiar?

by Jed Taylor on May 12, 2006 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's...
a great way to start the day knowing that they finally got that elusive win.  Hopefully, this does wonders for their confidence.

by koramcub on May 11, 2006 9:29 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

this may
sound dumb, but if I were Juan Pierre, I would've blown kisses to everyone out of pure spite.
...the artist formerly priorpwnz.

by Faith plus 1 on May 11, 2006 9:42 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Jones.
Good night for Jones! Too bad Dusty doesn't platoon him like you've suggested. One win down, many more to go!!

Anyhow, this is usually Jones' best time of year - the first two months; so I say if we're stuck with him, let's use him only against righties and milk his best months for all he's worth.  Then, like Al said, let's see if the Yankees or someone might want an OF who's batting better now than he'll finish the season.  It beats three years and 16 million on a guy who'll finish at about .240 (perhaps less), if you know what I mean.

Congrats, Jacques, your bat helped bring the Cubs a much-needed victory.  Now Dusty.....let's leave him down the order where he can be tolerated; don't get crazy again and start batting him cleanup, please.

I'm still hoping new blood is on the way, but I'll take this win because I was getting pretty miserable watching the games lately.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

by The Jade Scorpion on May 11, 2006 9:51 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Jones' Platoon Partner
Just curious Al and others, who would you platoon Jones with?  It seems as though Dusty doesn't have much of an option, right now.  

Here are your options (with second and first also listed since they will be affected)

Option #1
RF Jones
2B Hairston
1b Walker

Option #2
RF Hairson
2b Perez
1b Walker

Option #3
RF Mabry
2b Perez
1b Walker

Option #4
RF Mabry
2b Hairston
1b Walker

Option #5
Rf Hairston
2b Walker
1b Mabry

Option #6
RF Hairston
2b Theriot
1b Walker

Option #7
RF Theriot
2b Hairston
1b Walker

.
.
.

Ok, so you get the point, there are a number of options here, but you are replacing an admittedly weak bat in Jones against lefties with a some pop with another weak bat against lefties with little or no pop.  

While I admit that Jones shouldn't be playing against lefties, right now Dusty has no option.

If you were Dusty, what would you choose to do?

http://www.scacchoops.com

by jonpyardi on May 11, 2006 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I'd try...
... option 6, even though Hairston hasn't been very good up to now.

Option 2 might be useful against certain pitchers that Perez hits well.

by Al on May 11, 2006 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would
...do my damndest to acquire a real Right Fielder, then platoon Jones with Murton in left.

OR, I'd bring up Pie and let him start every day in right, then platoon Jones with Murton in left.

Murton's a good looking prospect, but he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire either at this point.  Murton versus Lefties and Jacque versus righties would make a damn good platoon, all-star level production from the left fielder.

by MikeJ on May 11, 2006 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dusty had the option
to try Restovich.  He didn't use it, despite the evidence that clearly suggests he'd have done better against lefties than Jones.

by pageian on May 11, 2006 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And...
... I have criticized that on multiple occasions.

by Al on May 11, 2006 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but you have to know by now
that players like restovich, theriot and pagan are not going to get a fair hearing with dusty short of total desperation. he simply doesn't view them as options.

this same situation persisted with burnitz last year. burnie was horrid vs lhp, and yet led the team in ab vs lhp. players like restovich are all over the margins of baseball -- the cubs could have acquired and played his analogue at any point.

did they? no.

i'd expect no different for jones. he's their guy, hell or high water.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pagan
I disagree, I think Pagan got a good shot against lefties early on this season.  I hope when he returns he can fill this role more adequetely than any of the replacements above.
http://www.scacchoops.com

by jonpyardi on May 11, 2006 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mabry
I am shocked that not one person said anything about how well Mabry played at 1st.  It seemed all the peel offs that Walk has been making have gone unnoticed.  I was super happy to see Mabry at 1st.  He had SEVERAL nice plays and is not afraid to take some contact if he has to in order to get an out.

by ogsbucog on May 11, 2006 10:19 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

MABRY
you may be right about him defensively, and I have even called for giving him a chance to start @ 1B w/Walker @ 2nd. The flip side of this arguement, however, is that the Cubs have been struggling to score runs and Mabry was 0 for 4 last night. But then again, Neifi and Hairston @ 2nd hasn't turned out too well either.  I guess a couple more wins should clarify matters a little better.
Tony U La Grange, IL

by tony412 on May 11, 2006 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

couple more wins
at this rate that'll be what? June?

by mike bornemann on May 11, 2006 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No comments on...
...the flip-flop of Cedeno and Pierre at the top of the lineup yet?  I'd have to say that it's one of the better moves that Baker's made this year, with it showing immediate results in the 1st (Cedeno single, stolen base, Pierre sac bunt, and a run scored on a Walker groundout).

Naturally, with as bad as things have been over the past two weeks, you've got to wonder why it wasn't done four or five games ago...

You've got to love hindsight, second-guessing, and Monday-morning quarterbacks, yeah?

by Shawon O Meter on May 11, 2006 10:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I was just about to say that
ummm yeah.
Tony U La Grange, IL

by tony412 on May 11, 2006 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mentioned
something about it last night before the game. I made a snarky comment to the effect of, "Oh, NICE, Dusty. That's the best you can do??"

He sure proved me wrong. D'oh.

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

suicide
the kid isn't getting on base. he was 1-for-5 again last night, and his obp is now down to a season=low .331.

i can't believe that his freefall hasn't been more commented on here. check the last 30 days stats: cedeno is 263/291/354.

dusty has essentially put neifi back at the top of the order -- the mortal fear of most of the people here.

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I liked Cedeno leading off
because Pierre is an accomplished bunter and can move the runners. I hope it works and Dusty sticks with it. Jones was great last night and if I were given an option, I'd bring up Pie and platoon Murton and Jones as MikeJ suggested. Either way, it was nice to go to sleep last night not angry.

by teacher tom on May 11, 2006 11:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Paddlin'
Paddlin' without a paddle...you'd better belive that's a paddlin'.

by Sidd Finch on May 11, 2006 11:14 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL
Who shot who in the what now?
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bonus points
If anyone can name this character (and he does have a name, unlike Comic Book Guy).

by gauchodirk on May 11, 2006 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can I name him?
Or am I disqualified for posting a quote?
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jasper!
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We have a winner!
Good job julie, you'd be surprised how many people don't know his name.

by gauchodirk on May 11, 2006 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comic Book guy also now has a name
he revealed it in an episode last season:  Jeff Albertson.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had a feeling that was true
I don't watch the new episodes anymore because I fall into that "worst episode ever" crowd who thinks the early seasons (specifically 3-6) were the best.

by gauchodirk on May 11, 2006 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me too
the "pool" epside from 1996 or so is my favorite.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...
... with all this non-baseball stuff in here, I better go put some baseball stuff in the non-baseball thread!

by Al on May 11, 2006 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry Al
But you should see the "Homer at the Bat" episode, which features the voices of Ken Griffey Jr., Roger Clemens, Ozzie Smith, Steve Sax, Darryl Strawberry, Don Mattingly, and other has-beens (except for Clemens).

by gauchodirk on May 11, 2006 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I missed this thread too late
Jasper is awesome. And Hans Moleman.

Is the "ringers" episode the same one where MLB is Big Brother? They have a satellite that's tracking Bart, and they all think he's crazy. Turns out he was right!

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope
that's the Focusyn episode.

"Are you standing up to get me to leave?"

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, of course
Both are equally hilarious.
--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Why did Humpty Dumpty fall down?"
"Because he took his eyes of the prize. You stay on the ball, you stay on the wall."
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh
The baseball thread is quickly turning. Simpsons quotes on your thread? Too non-specific?
--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry
I'll stop.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No worries!
It's just really funny that we somehow migrated to this post for our randomness. Made ME laugh, at least.
--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A very good one
It's titled "Bart of Darkness" and it the first episode of Season 6; it aired on September 4, 1994.

by gauchodirk on May 11, 2006 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, wrong about the date
"Is it St. Swiggens Day already?"
"Tis!" replied Aunt Helga!

LOL--love that one.

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This episode...
...was my first exposure to Sinatra's "Summer Wind" which Martin sings as the credits roll.  (I was 13 at the time.)

by gauchodirk on May 11, 2006 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep
I love that part.

"More friends! More allies!"

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on May 11, 2006 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it
Jasper?
In Dusty we busty

by jc60625 on May 11, 2006 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Time for Reform
Is there a BCB Council like there is a Chicago City Council? Maybe the BCB Council should look into passing an ordinance against negativity at least during Cub wins for example. A limit to spreadsheets, psychology, probability, personal studies and over enlarged egos would also be nice. Al, maybe you could set up a sort of "smoking section" for those w/the habit or urge to do any of the above.

I'm serious, this daily negativity is starting to become hazardous to my health. I mean, we can easily go down that Bashing route, but we might as well just put on a black and white jersey and cheer for that other team. At least we can all be happy that way.

Tony U La Grange, IL

by tony412 on May 11, 2006 12:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Haha
The Smoking Section. Can that be part of the signup process? "Smoking or non?"

"Non, please, and can we have a booth?"

--Tim http://fridayafternoonintheuniverse.blogspot.com

by elscorcho0682 on May 11, 2006 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!
Hey, just ignore the negative posts. A few wins and maybe there will be fewer of them.

by Al on May 11, 2006 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
nothing a little book burning wouldn't fix, hey?

by gaius marius on May 11, 2006 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You could have picked a better time
to make that request.  Right after Dusty decides to make a double switch in the fourth inning which includes Freddie Bynum seems like a poor time to ask people to curb negativity.

Am I missing something here?   Why would you rather have Bynum hit than a pitcher??  He's struck out in over half his plate appearances.  What the hell is Dusty thinking?

by pwhalen on May 11, 2006 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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