Why I think Pinella might be the right fit after all . . .

by hoosiercubbie on May 24, 2006 1:57 PM CDT

And no, its not because I think he can do anything with this year's group. I agree with what has already been said about Baker. Namely, "what's the point in firing him if there's no one better to do the job?" True enough.

But I was thinking on my way in today that a fire sale is likely and should be on the horizon--or at least, say July. I just don't see how our injured players coming back are going to turn this around before the trade deadline.

I think the single biggest problem with the Cubs in terms of a larger vision is that they keep thinking they can re-patch together the 2003 team. Put Lee here. Bring Maddux in here. Get Pierre. Get a closer, bullpen, etc. But the reality is that there just isn't that veteran nucleus anymore. So, the team needs to be gutted entirely. I mean, WS "White Flag" sale type gutting. Keep A-Ram, Lee, maybe Barrett among the veteran position players. Hold onto Prior, Wood and Z. Trade away every other veteran to desperate contenders for the best you can get for them--including all that quality bullpen help, which will probably get you the most back.

Really, truly, go young. Start over. I know that is not what we Cub fans want to think or hear, but to deny it is to live in `03 forever, when that window has slammed shut. It can't be piece-mealed back together.

And this is why I think Pinella is a good idea. His best (somewhat) recent success was in Seattle where he could manage a talented young team. Yes, he failed in Tampa Bay with youth, but there he didn't have the talent or the payroll to win. I think he might have better luck here, since this franchise needs to go young anyway. No, he can't win with the Cubs' current roster, but he might be able to with the subsequent one. He seems like a manager better suited to youth than to veterans.

So, my point is--if the Cubs are going to switch directions like this later in the season (and why not?)--then they need a Pinella-type anyway for the next generation of Cubs.

And, in any case, if Dusty does go, I'd just really like not to see another laid-back type, after all the recent managers we've had--Baylor, Kimm, Dusty, and so forth. Dusty was right for the `03 team--but again, that's gone. I don't see how a laid-back guy is going to win with youth, and that's the reality of the Cubs right now.

peace.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Sir..

If you Keep the 6 guys you have outlined.. What do you expect to receive in return?

I know you are just saying the Cubs should make those moves but I am wondering what you would consider?

by cubsfan2883 on May 24, 2006 1:59 PM CDT reply actions

more focus on youth than trade value

If I understand you correctly, I would say Pierre, Walker, Howry, Eyre, (yes still) Dempster, Maddux (karma aside), Jones, and so forth would get some decent potential talent in return. Collectively-speaking. Obviously, I know some would get more than others.

I guess, I wouldn't be against trading away one or two of the three young pitchers in a good deal.

My larger point was just that the Cubs should focus on youth like Pie, Murton, Cedeno, the pitching and so forth, while you can still build anew around a relatively young A-Ram and Lee.

by hoosiercubbie on May 24, 2006 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions

It's

P I N I E L L A

And he has repeatedly said that he is not interested in a manager's job again.

And it has been pointed out here why he would be a terrible choice:

Piniella is just a hard-assed version of Dusty Baker. He has almost exactly the same tendencies as a manager--he won't play rookies, he stretches out his starters, builds a weak bench with veterans and eschews statistical analysis in favor of his gut.

You want Piniella as the next Cub manager if you think Dusty Baker would be perfect if his players hated him. Most (although not all) of us think that Dusty's ability to get along with his players is his one strengths and not the only thing about him that we'd want to change.

Most Devil Rays fans thought less of Piniella by the time he left than we think of Dusty.

If that's what you want, be my guest.

by Al Yellon on May 24, 2006 2:04 PM CDT reply actions

yes, but

I understand and respect your position on this, Al. I'm not saying he's the magic solution to everything, or even anything. I'm just thinking about him in the context of the (probably) impending youth movement.

So, let me ask you an honest question--if Pinella's not the answer (and he might not be), who would you bring in if the Cubs go young?

by hoosiercubbie on May 24, 2006 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions

You know...

... the name Fredi Gonzalez has been brought up here, and he's been a highly regarded bench coach under Bobby Cox for some time.

by Al Yellon on May 24, 2006 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions

Ned Yost

another guy who's coached for Bobby Cox has had some success with the Brewers. Cox has the Braves headed back in the right direction (it appears) even without Mizzone. I'd say Fredi Gonzalez would be a good guy to take a chance on. Cox knows what he's doing, he's a hall of fame manager. If some of that has rubbed of on Gonzalez we'd be better off for it.

by pageian on May 24, 2006 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions

Of course

Fredi Gonzalez won't be available until after the season, but he'd be a good choice.

I'd like to see the Cubs hire Angels third base coach Dino Ebel, just because his name is Dino Ebel. (It rhymes with "See No Evil" in case people don't get it.)

But seriously, Angels pitching coach Bud Black is a great managerial candidate who has turned down several inquiries (The Red Sox wanted him before Terry Francona) because he doesn't want to leave Southern California while his daughters are still in school. Now I don't know how old his daughters are now except that they'll be three years older than when he turned down an interview with the Red Sox. I'd would be worth a shot.

I wanted the Cubs to hire Ken Macha and not Dusty way back when. I think it unlikely that Macha gets fired in Oakland, but you never know since he was briefly fired and then re-hired this past off-season. I'd still take him if the A's let him go.

by Josh Timmers on May 24, 2006 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions

Further...

... Piniella's best Mariners team, the 2001 club that won 116 games, was populated by over-thirties like John Olerud, Bret Boone, Edgar Martinez, Aaron Sele, Jamie Moyer, Mark McLemore ... need I go on?

by Al Yellon on May 24, 2006 2:08 PM CDT reply actions

okay.

But, couldn't A-Ram, Prior, Lee and so forth fill that role eventually?

I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to provoke you, Al.

by hoosiercubbie on May 24, 2006 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Sure they could...

... but that goes against your original premise, doesn't it?

I just think Piniella is the wrong fit for any number of reasons, some of which I articulated above.

by Al Yellon on May 24, 2006 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Pinella

He won't be Cubs manager as long as MacPhail is Cubs President, so lets stop tossing his name out. Steve Stone detailed a discussion that he had with MacPhail many years back about Pinella and MacPhail is not a Pinella fan. Stone said that his opinion was, unless MacPhail has changed his mind, there was no way MacPhail would ever consider Pinella, and even though Hendry is GM, MacPhail is part of the brain trust.

DmL

by dmlichte on May 24, 2006 3:53 PM CDT reply actions

BB is the guy

I think Brenley would be good choice coming from booth he knows game and has a different, fundamental approach than DB.

Cubs have history of rotating guys out of booth--Lou Boudrea went from there to be part of the famous "college of coaches'' I think.

Brenley has led a team to a WS recently and would be good fit if they fire Dusty by All-Star break. He's already on payroll so wouldn't cost them as much as Sweet Lou, try him out 2nd half of this season and see how he does.

Obviously, we need a new hitting coach also to change our approach to a more disciplined one involving patience, walks, OBP.

Von Joshua seems a good bet Sarge and Clines have had 2-3 years and haven't produced and failed with K-Pat, badly.

by writerinwrigley on May 24, 2006 4:08 PM CDT reply actions