Baseball Is A Marathon, Not A Sprint
by Al Yellon on May 9, 2006 8:51 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintWords to live by.
Unfortunately, the facts from last night don't make that very easy: the Cubs lost 8-3 to the Padres, their seventh straight loss and completing the first-ever four-game sweep by the Padres over the Cubs in San Diego.
Here's a suggestion: do what I did. I had to go to sleep for work, as usual. I turned the game off after the top of the fourth -- when it was still manageable at 3-1.
Moments later, that's when the Padres started smacking the ball all over the yard, four runs including a Brian Giles HR, and when it was over Greg Maddux had his shortest outing in three years, and his ERA, which two starts ago was 1.35, went up more than a run, and now sits at 3.64.
So much for the brave talk (no pun intended) of an All-Star berth for Maddux, or for what some of you have begun to clamor for, a trade for him somewhere while his value is high. Actually, during the three innings I saw, I thought Maddux hit his spots pretty well, had his pitches moving and mixed them up well. He issued two walks -- one intentional -- and both came back to bite him. I'd have walked Giles intentionally, too, to pitch to a guy who had six RBI in 75 at-bats coming into the game.
The Cubs look bad, true. But the Padres are the hottest team in baseball right now. Sometimes running into a team like that magnifies what's making you look bad.
Somewhere in yesterday's comments I wrote about the 1977 Cubs, who on June 28 were 47-22, 8.5 games ahead in first place.
Look at that game log linked above very carefully. The '77 Cubs were 7-9 on April 30. On June 30 they were 47-24; they went 40-15 for the months of May and June (in fact, it was 40-13 before they lost the last two games in June). That's probably the best two months I've ever seen the Cubs have, even better than any two months you can pick out of their recent playoff seasons. They had a five-game winning streak, three streaks of six, and one of seven. At no time during those two months did they ever lose more than two straight.
Why do I mention this now? Because as good as that Cub team looked, that's as bad as this one looks. And it is true -- no team is as bad as they look when they're losing, and no team is quite as good as they look when they're on a streak like the '77 Cubs had. And in fact, that team wasn't that good -- they had .500 talent, and finished exactly .500, and had to lose their last five games to do it.
Yes, the Cubs look awful right now. Yes, talent is being misused (why was Freddie Bynum used to pinch-hit yet again last night, when the recalled Ryan Theriot was right there on the bench? Is Dusty going to sit him too, like he sat Michael Restovich for three weeks? Incidentally, Restovich cleared waivers and was outrighted to Iowa). Yes, the talent that is there is not producing -- example: Michael Barrett, whose numbers are still decent, hasn't driven in a run since April 21.
But the team has played 31 games. The Colorado Rockies have played 33, and are in first place. Do you seriously expect them to be there at season's end? Or even a month from now? The Angels were widely predicted to win the AL West. They're 14-19. They're a better team than that.
I know this Cub team is flawed. They need help, and Jim Hendry ought to go out and get some -- right now. Kerry Wood will be back soon -- maybe, as was suggested in last night's comments, he might even be pushed up and start Friday at Wrigley Field. Frankly, I think teams make too much of rehab starts. If he's ready -- and based on his rehab start, it appears that he is -- why send him all the way to Fresno to throw against Triple-A hitters? Theriot ought to be installed at 2B for an entire week, just to see what he can do.
I'm not giving up and quitting. Don't you either. If snarking and bitching makes you feel better -- well, there's other places to do that. Don't give up. Keep the faith. It's GOT to get better.
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AMEN!!
by ontheuptick on May 9, 2006 8:59 AM CDT reply actions
Agreed
by ontheuptick on May 9, 2006 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
I agree
by jolietconvict on May 9, 2006 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
If you don't score runs
I agree Al that the season is far from over. I just wish the team would play like it's May and not August. It's like they lose focus and then look over and see D Lee and say, "Well, the big guy isn't in to help..."
When the pitching staff is struggling or understaffed the offense has to step up and they really haven't.
I say walk Bonds every time by the way. I hate watching a Cub be in a "highlight" for another team.
Let's hope they turn it around tonight.
Wood at Iow Friday
White Sox
by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on May 9, 2006 9:08 AM CDT reply actions
Best two months
I LOVED the 1977 team. The "little blue machine"!
And of course, the 1906 team...
Don't believe what you hear. I wasn't around then.
;)
FWIW...
The 40-15 I quoted from 1977 above ranks as the best such streak since 1945.
The best any Cub team has done since then, over any 55-game stretch, was 37-18, from July 3-August 30, 1984.
Dusty already said
Well Rich you groove one down the middle and you'll be on the wrong side of history.. let me tell ya.
Al, you have continually called for something to happen to the team.. I agree it would be great for the Cubs to find something. So what are some possible somethings that you believe could actually HELP the offense. That being said your typical Conine Clark and Millar argument has to be dismissed.. wake me when any of those three gets their BA above .250. So Al.. what do you think the Cubs should do.. what other grand possibilites do you see?
he is an idiot
by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on May 9, 2006 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Thumbs up on that one!
Damn straight!
his last start
I don't know, frankly..
They should have tried Michael Restovich in RF or 1B, instead of having him languish on the bench and then ship him back to Iowa.
Right now the best "anything they can do" is put Ryan Theriot at 2B for a week straight, just to see what he can do.
Kerry Wood will be back soon. That ought to boost morale, if nothing else.
Hill has a sore throat
by Santos Sorrow @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on May 9, 2006 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Am I actually saying this?
No...I can't be...
OK, I am. I hope Glendon gets it.
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
wait a minute
He's also
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
fair enough
Restovich
by DSZ on May 9, 2006 9:18 AM CDT reply actions
Do you...
by jolietconvict on May 9, 2006 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Then...
Restovich may not be a great, or even good, player. But the fact is, we have nothing to base that on because he never played a full game.
He had two hits
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
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Plenty of time left.
The season can be salvaged; nobody is running away just yet. But as I've said previously, it's going to take a move by Hendry that makes a real difference, and gives the clubhouse a reason to believe in 2006.
Conine won't do that, neither will Millar. The paper today said Hendry was on the phone with as many as 11 GMs yesterday. I hope that's true. But I think it's going to take more than patchwork to make this team potent enough to contend in the long-term.
Hopefully, Hendry will bring a star in that'll boost the offense and the clubhouse. There is still time to recover, though as the team is currently constructed, there may just not be enough talent to recover.
I'd like to believe somethign will be in the works soon, and I don't mean Jeff Conine. Perhaps I hope for too much.....
by The Jade Scorpion on May 9, 2006 9:23 AM CDT reply actions
What "Star" Is Available On May 9th?
Oh and btw.. Sarah if you see Julie let her know that I am not deceased of alcohol poisoning.. I shut the game off in the 5th.. and thus survived attempt one of the Chicago Cubs drinking game..
Haha!
I meant see in the figurative sense
You two are so alike
Aww,
Actually, now that you mention it, where is she? Maybe she's off sick or something... or maybe she finally had it with the Cubs and said screw you people, I'm goin' home.
she had to be in court this morning.
Wow
Ah, the glamorous life of the big city lawyer. . .
BTW
well.. maybe one.
What about the nationals>? 10.5 games back and sinking quickly. Do they have anyone available?? What about Alfonso Soriano? Find a way to snag this guy and your in business.. he's hitting the hell out of the baseball right now and doing it in one of the largest parks in baseball.. Pick him up... dump BOTH hairston and perez (perez makes 2.5 million?? NO, and I repeat NO OTHER TEAM IN BASEBALL would put this guy on their 25 man roster even if they could pay him in hot dog's and beer nuts) stick him at 2b (where he would be MUCH HAPPIER) and then when Lee comes back get him in the lineup every day either at 2b/RF/LF.
Tony Clark, Jeff Conine, Kevin Millar? C'mon. We'd have a better chance if Santo strapped on his legs and stepped into the box.
Just my two cents.
by Jerry Burnatterson on May 9, 2006 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Just a few names.
Some names that could be available (and chances are, if Hendry talked to 11 GMs, some of them were indeed mentioned):
Jose Vidro
Alfonso Soriano
Craig Wilson
Josh Willingham
Aubrey Huff
Miguel Cabrera (Expensive IF they'd trade him)
Luis Castillo (unlikley, but worth a phone call)
Guaranteed they'd trade these guys? No.
But you can't convince me they wouldn't hear some offers at this point. I'm very glad to hear that Hendry is at least using his cell phone minutes. ;-)
I hope something big is in the works!
by The Jade Scorpion on May 9, 2006 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Josh Willingham?
by Santos Sorrow @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on May 9, 2006 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not giving up and quitting. Don't you either.
As to your comment about snarking and bitching, I think it wholly appropriate for any and everyone to show how frustrated they are with this latest version of ineptitude and poor play.
A nearly $100M payroll doesn't guarantee you anything, if you don't know how to properly allocate the resources to address the needs at hand.
Although there is alot of baseball left, I think 2006 may be a sell signal on the latest mgmt regime and that the fallout may claim a few jobs in the process.
I will say this - losing never gets any easier and as I grow older I am beginning to question why I have invested so many hours on my time on this planet following a franchise that has broke my heart more times than I can count.
Kudos to those of you who subscribe to Al's mantra to keep the faith.
As for me, I say the time is growing close to burn the damn thing to the ground, tear out the foundation and start again.
As Pete Townsend wrote "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
Agree...
The microcosim of this losing streak, in last night's game in my opinion was Pierre's AB in the 7th. Cubs have a rally going after Jones' lead off HR and Hefty Perez getting a one-out single, it's 7-2 Padres. Pierre comes to bat and he has seen 17 pitches from Young in his previous 3 ABs and in his last AB he singled to CF. I am thinking that Pierre is going to smoke this guy now. Instead he swings at the first pitch for a lazy fly to CF. I didn't understand it, he had seen everything Young had to offer, and the out did not upset me, it's that he swung at the first pitch and hit a soft fly. In that situation when you have pitcher down and you go tough guy swinging you have to scorch the ball. Cedeno followed his first disciplined AB of the game and a triple to left field, Cedeno can fly. Then Embree comes in and gets Walker. It happenes and I still think Pierre is a good player but the Cubs don't seem to do anything right mentally lately and not much physically either.
But at least Pierre padded his SB stats witha meaningless 1 out steal of 2B with the Cubs down 7-1. Dusty's Tough Guys will go down fighting, uppercuts all the way...
Oh, and Young had very good stuff last night for the Padres. He threw about 110 pitches in 6 and 2/3, but he threw very few pitches for balls and there were numerous ABs with guys fouling off 2-3 pitches. Young was tough, so don't get too down with the loss. Momentum is tomorrow's starting pitcher...
by DudeVf1 on May 9, 2006 9:49 AM CDT reply actions
Cue Jim Mora...
Mora...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGrewst9tnM&search=jim%20mora
A cause for optimism
I'm not down yet,
as in marathoning
those too are words to live by.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 10:05 AM CDT reply actions
WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?
i was actually
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Just joking :)
I was also not allowed to go trick or treating or watch the Smurfs, Scooby Doo, or He Man.
That is, actually, false...
this is perfect
again, you're citing the vanishingly rare special case and trying to apply it universally.
like it or not, al, it's very very true -- the folks in front at the start are almost always in front in the end; those in the middle stay in the middle; those in the back stay at the back.
i, for my part, was in the back. :)
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
For the sake of argument
does anyone have the phone number to Bud Light?
Re
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'77 Cubs
and as for giving up
i have no plans to do the latter.
but the former is quickly becoming the only smart thing to do.
have optimism, folks, but redirect it to where it can do some good.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 10:11 AM CDT reply actions
I'm optimistic
So who are you to tell me what I should and should not be optimistic about?
Huh Gaius?
You say "I am not trying to tell people what kind of fans to be"
Then you say chide people for being optimistic about their team. Its a life view. And this is coming from someone who is described by friends as cynical (especially about politics). I choose to be optimistic about the Cubs because I care about the Cubs.
And who are you to call me names such as naive or infantile..
Go root for another team if you cannot make a positive contribution to it. Go find another city to live in if you dislike what is happening in Chicago. I hear the Yankees are always looking for some more bandwagon hoppers.. and theres plenty of reason to be optimistic about the 203 million dollar team they've put together
be as silly as you want
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
How am I being silly?
I find your attitude to be equally as silly as being a polyanna.. Decrying defeat before battle is equally as "silly" as Claiming Victory before it.. I choose to believe that the Cubs can play better baseball with the players they have now.. I choose to believe that the Cubs will not lose 150 games in a row.. I choose to believe that the Cubs will tread water and finish a couple games above .500 for the year....
When you sit there .. and you say.. Oh the Cubs can never make the playoffs with this team?
and I ask you make me a reasonable move that the Cubs can make and you say: There is none.. You are making yourself just seem like a naysayer for the sake of naysaying..
i didn't say that
and what's contradictory about what i've said?
you say.. Oh the Cubs can never make the playoffs with this team?
and I ask you make me a reasonable move that the Cubs can make and you say: There is none.. You are making yourself just seem like a naysayer for the sake of naysaying..
they're cooked and there is no reasonable move to save them. it would take several, and that isn't going to happen.
that's not naysaying, friend. it's just how it is.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
would you care to parse the words, sarah?
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
No, dear.
Maybe you should just tell Cubsfan that you didn't mean it that way.
Can't talk now, I'm in the middle of telling you that you're silly. Ha!
:)
By that same token..
that's my point
but this club was putting kerry wood in the bullpen last august in an extremely lost cause in part out of this unconsidered, childlike manner of ignorant optimism.
if he had been on an operating table instead, where he certainly belonged, the cubs may not have had to throw rich hill and angel guzman all this time, and the team might be 3 out instead of 7.
do you see what i mean? last year's optimism contributed to this year's failings. that's what this team needs to avoid, among other things. knowing when to cut bait is one of the most important attributes of any successful investor.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
seriously
you sometimes see it in gambers throwing good money after bad, or in people who bought some obscure tech share at $500 in 1999 who are still holding it at $10 thinking that it has to come back.
it doesn't have to come back. and hoping that it does while you sink larger sums into the game or hang on to those shares as the company goes bankrupt is as destructive a form of ignorance as there is.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Ha!
Actually, my name is Sarah Hope... Sorry, that just cracked me up.
Um, I was speaking of the statement in bold that said that last year's optimism contributed to this year's failings.
That's just silliness and you know it.
not at all
much is made in our post-nietzschean world of the universal good of personal optimism, but what no one talks about is how optimism at the expense of pragmatism leads quickly to unmitigated disaster. the greeks were fond of writing plays about it -- you've heard i'm sure of the tragic chain koros-hybris-ate which plays out on every scale from the psychological to the civilizational.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
wow
I can have faith in the Cubs all I want, regardless of their chances of winning, but it's not going to leave me bruised or penniless. (Theoretically, at least....)
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh no worries.
That's why we love him. We might not agree with his point, but man does he give it passionately.
Haha, I know
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I personally
Re
Remember - that which does not kill us makes us stronger.
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I always thought it was...
I made that same comment in a post a few days ago
You know...
Part of that, I believe, is that you do still hope, and want them to win, and believe, until it is utterly hopeless to do so.
On May 9, the vast majority of us believe it is not hopeless.
If you feel it is, bully for you. But you don't have the right to criticize the rest of us for feeling the way we do.
From Ron To Al
For the sake of debate
As for the fallacy that the kuros-hubris-ate chain is an inevitable one, there is much out there besides Nietzche's laughable amateur classicism in "The Birth of Tragedy" that I'd be glad to discuss in private if you are interested.
Ya know...
I do dig what you're saying, though. I think you are a real fan who wants the absolute best from the team he chooses to root for, and when it comes up short, then it hurts.
But ya just never know.
And yeah, the Cubs are done. Still I will watch and (HOPEfully) get proven wrong! 8-)
by Floyd on May 9, 2006 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
But our Tradable pieces ..
Juan Pierre- .286 OBP does have 18 Runs and the Cubs are 9-2 in games when Pierre scores 1 run.
Prospects. such as Rich Hill and Angel Guzman.. are available.. but they have been pounded.
Who else is available..
You would like to think that JJ is available for nothing but who is going to even give up something to take on that contract? Ick.
Umm.. Who else.. Ramirez maybe.. but you would have to get a hell of a deal to trade Aramis don't you think?
I must say
Gaius has a good point about Wood. We could have had him a month and a half ago.
What then
Have you accomplished anything in your campaign to convince all Cubs fans there is no hope?
by BCurt10 on May 9, 2006 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Former vs. Latter?
but the former is quickly becoming the only smart thing to do. "
Burning your hat and jersey and never watching another game is the only smart thing to do? Even if I did lose all hope, I'm not burning $200 of material.
Yes, I know what you meant. I just feel obligated to tease the grand master on an ultra rare grammatical mistake.
lol
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Not Bitching, just saying......
About Dusty, maybe he should go. Didnt the Marlins fire their manager early in their latest championship season? And I believe the Astros did too in 2004 hiring Phil Garner after the All Star break. They ended up making the playoffs and winning their first playoff series in history and went to game 7 w/the Cards, falling one game short of the world series.
Ok, so I've decided to not let this all affect me so much. I will take the route of just continuing to be patient. Like when your pour beer into a glass...Hendry must have poured it pretty shaky cuz there's still foam up on top. But we all know eventually it will go away.
Hey did anyone notice John Koronka go to 4-1 last night? Maybe Hendry should have dealt Hill while he had some trade value and kept Koronka. I know, easy to say that in hindsight. Same w/Willis.
Ah, too much on my mind. Let me get some work done.
Well.
I think thats pretty safe to say. They are out of it NOW.
by Santos Sorrow @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on May 9, 2006 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
If the season ended today
But it hasn't, and they're not.
Why?? Why must you do this??
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Every game...
by Sidd Finch @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on May 9, 2006 10:18 AM CDT reply actions
What we got for Koronka
"Acquired INF Freddie Bynum from the A's in a three-team trade. Sent LHP John Koronka and a player to be named to Texas in the deal."
Koronka's stats in 2006:
W L ERA G GS IP H R ER HR BB so 4 1 3.65 7 7 44.1 41 18 18 4 12 25
better than Hill and Guzman, no?
So far, yes.
I don't.
Granted, what the Cubs received in this deal is worthless. But I don't think, in the end, they gave up anything valuable, either.
Best Pitcher? no.
Boy, I don't know Al
I sure hope he doesn't turn out to be another Jamie Moyer.
Each trade has risks...
by ontheuptick on May 9, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
It seems to me..
Sometimes a change of scenery and new pitching coach can turn a player around. Only time will tell.
But, I really don't see how the Cubs can be accused of not giving Koronka a fair shot. In fact, I seem to recall some griping that Koronko was being given opportunities that others felt should have gone to Hill or Guzman.
by jazzman56 on May 9, 2006 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Re
It was much better than the players they kept in Hill, Williams, and Guzman. Of course, maybe that's why Texas took Koronka. Each has continued on from his respective spring performance.
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You...
It is also worth noting that 2005 was the 7th year that Koronka spent toiling in the minors and that no doubt factored into the Cubs decision to give him a fresh start elsewhere.
by jazzman56 on May 9, 2006 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
And...
The acquisition (and playing) of Bynum not only had a negative effect because of what he did on the field, but it also kept an actual useful player, Ryan Theriot, in the minor leagues.
The thing is...
I'm not quite ready to crown him Rookie of The Year, however.
These kind of low level deals have low risk/low reward potential, and if once in awhile you get hoodwinked...well, it happens to all teams.
The fellow that posts the reports on ex-Cubs does a good job. Use that as a guide to keep some perspective on over-all performance. It is more useful than focusing on the inevitable occaisional missteps.
by jazzman56 on May 9, 2006 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
lee << bynum
Trade Koronka for a guy who can mash from the right side and play a corner, that I can see.
by dustyisdonnie on May 9, 2006 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Jerome Williams
The one positive stat you could take from this outing is that Williams threw 106 pitches and 70 were strikes.
I'm wondering if we're going to see Jerome again before September...
Observations from San Diego
The Cubs finally hit the ball hard last night, but right at somebody. Bellhorn and Greene made some great crucial plays. Ramirez hit the ball hard each time up, but loafed to first base on his last ab double play, when he was robbed of a hit by Greene.
Hairston swings like he's Sammy Sosa. He covers a lot of ground at second base but until he becomes a contact hitter, he's a detriment.
Pierre's last season wasn't an abberation, but the start of a slippery slide to oblivion.
Maddux didn't have anything last night.
Aramis loafing
Oh how you soothe...
GO CUBS!
I ment nest...
by evillecubman on May 9, 2006 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
My thought
For me, the answer is yes, but it's not nearly as much fun as in the old days when they were losing. Someone just going to the park and hoping that they win that day was enough, the standings mattered less.
I guess it is higher expectations, but somehow it is also that many of the players seem less engaging somehow. I am certain that I used to think of the players more in the sense of what they could do, not their limitations.
Anything is possible, which is what makes a season fun, but I do think I need to be able to enjoy the Cubs for what they are and stop worrying about what they're not. Otherwise it will stop being enjoyable, and then what's the point of spending my time following them?
by Routine Pop Fly on May 9, 2006 1:05 PM CDT reply actions
I was talking to a friend last night
and I had to agree somewhat in regards to the Cubs, but I honestly don't know if its because as a kid I didn't really get standings and everything (after all what did the post season matter if they were never in it) and just had fun watching the games and now I'm an adult and understand all those things, so the disappointment is there.
OK, let's carry the analogy...
In fact, a month later, June 18th, they were still at .500 and 6.5 games behind the White Sox.
We all know what eventually happened.
by jazzman56 on May 9, 2006 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
That '67 Red Sox Team
While St. Louis was able to pitch Bob Gibson in games one, four and seven of the World Series, Lonborg who was 22-9 that year, wasn't able to pitch until game two of the World Series. Boston had to pitch him on short rest in game 7, and that was probably the difference, IMO.
Yep...
But, that is a nice problem to have. What Cubs fan wouldn't like to being kvetching over what the pitching matchups will be this October?
by jazzman56 on May 9, 2006 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
In the words of the immortal
by Santos Sorrow @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on May 9, 2006 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
it's still very enjoyable
would someone who hated what he was doing put the work in to find this or this? i think not.
there's a really frightening undercurrent here -- and not just here, but because al is a proponent of it there does seem to be a higher concentration here -- that feels that reality is a downer, and escaping it = enjoyment.
i think we all enjoy a ballgame -- i often watch little league on weekends. and i do think that too much attention is paid to sport and entertainment generally in our society.
but a lot of folks here detest the reality of the cubs abysmal situation because it impinges upon their fantasy -- or, worse, indicts their selfish fantasies in contributing to the cubs' real struggles. pining for a return to a pleasantly mythologized version of the bad old days is simply a variation on that theme.
that's a sort of antisocial behavior to be inveighed against at every opportunity, imo.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
That's ridiculous...
You're working SO hard at sucking any enjoyment that any of us have from baseball -- and calling it "antisocial behavior" is a slam that should not be tolerated.
How dare you lecture to us on what we should and shouldn't do. Who are YOU to tell us how we should and shouldn't enjoy baseball?
Go lock yourself up with your spreadsheets, and your smug, haughty attitude. You seem happier there.
lol
but it's up to you. i can only point it out.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I think
I've got White Sox caps for anyone who wants them.
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
not telling you not to be a fan
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
The whole point is...
It's not up to YOU to tell me how to be a fan.
No one here
I really enjoy reading a lot of your analysis and commentary, man, but I think you're just reading what you want to read in this one.
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
do you think
i only know what the evidence tells me. and that is:
-- teams that go five back of the leaders in the 27th game are finished, historically speaking;
-- teams that lose seven straight at any point in the year are also are basically cooked.
this team is both.
it's time to play for 2007. start theriot everyday. keep playing cedeno. keep hill, guzman and marshall in the rotation regardless of who comes back off the dl. release rusch and recall aardsma. forget about buying at the 7/31 deadline and start setting up some trades to bring in a new crop of prospects from contenders -- particularly pierre, maddux and williamson.
let's find out what these kids can do. some of them are going to be awful, and it's just ridiculous that a major-market financial powerhouse is reduced to this minnesotaesque penny-ante one-horse situation. but this could be a golden opportunity.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Some of these suggestions...
Your statistical comparisons are just that -- numbers on a spreadsheet. If you want to use them to crush your own hope, be my guest.
It is May 9. It is NOT time to play for 2007. Not yet.
If the club is floundering like this on July 9 -- which, coincidentally, is the last date before the All-Star break -- then, absolutely, I'm with you.
Till then, I ask you only to let a bit more of the season unfold before you categorically give up.
There are three kinds of lies
Please. Any baseball fan knows that anything can happen at any time, until mathematical elimination is a reality. Keep with us for just a little while longer.
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
PS
But "We're done for this year" is something I'm not willing to accept in early May.
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I think
But I'm not going to stop being a Cubs fan because I don't agree with what they're doing at the moment. Take it as you will.
Again, your psychology makes sense but I think you're taking it too far. It's a game. Fantasy as such is one thing when you're talking about politics, finances, etc. It's just baseball.
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of Fantasy
David Wright, Chase Utley, Jason Bay, Coco Crisp, Josh Willingham, Bobby Abreu, Rich Harden, Zach Duke, Cliff Lee, Chris Ray Jimmy Rollins, Matt Cain.. amongst others..
I also have Delmon Young, Mike Pelfrey, and some other talented specs in my minors still. I've found that people love guys who have small amounts of success in the ML's and will trade for them no matter how much.
Anyhow I am in 1st place in the National League...
Good for you
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Batlling through injuries...
I've lost
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
i wouldn't ask anyone to stop being a fan
but i would take pains to point out that optimism needn't be confined to this year -- especially once this year shows itself to be a lost cause, as it has. one can take the longer view and work toward more distant goals that actually have a chance of being realized.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
We disagree only, then...
It is May 9. There are 131 games remaining. That's 80% of the season. Many things can happen, and HAVE HAPPENED TO OTHER TEAMS in similiar situations.
Is it likely? No.
Is it POSSIBLE? Yes. And that's what makes it worth being a fan. Hope. For NOW, not just for some indeterminate future date.
Baseball
"but a lot of folks here detest the reality of the cubs abysmal situation because it impinges upon their fantasy -- or, worse, indicts their selfish fantasies in contributing to the cubs' real struggles. pining for a return to a pleasantly mythologized version of the bad old days is simply a variation on that theme. that's a sort of antisocial behavior to be inveighed against at every opportunity, imo."
Give it a rest, Gaius. I'm trying to enjoy the Cubs for what they are -- a baseball team. Please stop trying to belittle me for following and rooting for my team.
I love
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember 77 and 78
Doing what Hou did from 15 under into playoffs last year is an aberration can't see this year's cub team being much better than .500 but hold out hope for one of those hot streaks...
I posted a few weeks back during giddy early days about losing streaks being downfall...just didn't think it would happen so soon, so depressingly...hard to get pumped for rest of season, but things can turn around.
Santo and Hughes were down on lack of walks-getting on base by leadoff hitter, something Ditka of all people mentioned this AM on ESPN Radio here locally...Pierre should be sparking offense, but has been a big dud on this trip and for most games.
Glad Cubs didn't lock into him long term like we did with JJ!!
by writerinwrigley on May 9, 2006 2:04 PM CDT reply actions
Speaking of 1973...
They went 21-8 and won the NL East.
Yes, that was an aberration of a divisional year. But it does show that a team can come back from this far back -- even if there are only 1/5 as many games remaining as there are now.
The '73 Mets, as did their [shudder] 1969 counterparts, won with pitching.
This Cub team can do the same IF Wood, Prior and Miller come back. Will they? Maybe not.
But it is too early to say they won't.
hmmmm
the problem is that this team can't hit, field, or run the bases well.
or if they do one thing, they can't do the other.
Or if they do ALL of them, they're hitting the balls right at somebody.
I'm striking this one up as another 'god hates us' year.
john
p.s. is there any truth to the fact that Wrigley was built on a graveyard?
Not a graveyard
But..
When you are losing, you tend to not hit, field or run the bases well. If the Cubs were not a ballclub that is primarily made up of veterans with significant track records, I'd say this may be a long season.
Sometimes, a group of quality veteran players all have a bad year all at the same time. But, not very often.
It is just too early to say if that is the case this year or not. You have Barrett, Walker, Ramirez, Pierre, Jones, Maddux, and others who have been through many pennant races and have enjoyed some significant success. Why write them off as a group in early May? There's no logic behind that.
by jazzman56 on May 9, 2006 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Not exactly
H. Res 627
I'm not
</politics>
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather have them...
I wish they would take off 365 days a year.
by jazzman56 on May 9, 2006 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Re
Visit The Digital Gazette
I'm so glad
which Rep wanted a photo-op on the campaign trail?
This team
Now I am going to voice my opinion on this team, mainly because I've read people accuse others here of sucking the enjoyment out of baseball. To me, the Cubs, over the last three years have sucked any enjoyment out of baseball on the north side for me. I have been a Cub fan my entire life, plan on remaining a Cub fan, however the team of the last three years, to me, has become so unbearable to watch and deal with. In my mind, the aura surrounding this team, its attitude and the tone that it gives off, to me, is attrocious. They do not play the game well. They do not play the game with heart. They often do not play the game due to injuries. When the crap hits the fan, this team folds. Other teams rebound, people step up and leadership demands excellence. Cubs management sits there with their hands in the air, does not exude confidence, and does not know how to identify problems. Management is seemingly so stupid that they cannot identify and employ basic statistics. Management distains the media and the fans.
If you want to blame me for sucking the life out of anyone, thats fine. But this is how this Cubs team is to me. As someone who bleeds Cubbie blue, Cub baseball has become so unenjoyable for me to watch and all I want to do is disect the problem and give suggestions on how to make it better, unfortunately I no longer have confidence that Cubs management knows how to make it better. I will not apologize for feeling this way and voicing this. If this blog is only for the positive side of things, I will willingly take my tent and set it up elsewhere.
DmL
No one has ever said...
But you hit the nail on the head when you said:
Constructive criticism and discussion is not only welcome, WE DO IT ALL THE TIME HERE.
But telling us we're not good fans because we haven't given up -- as some here have done -- that's what I can't stomach.
Now, let me agree with some of your contentions. This team has, at times this year, played the game atrociously. At other times, they have played well. I disagree that they have no heart -- that's easy to say when you see a team lose seven straight.
And to criticize injuries? How can you do that? Injuries are part of the game.
You say "other teams rebound". How do you know the Cubs won't do this?
Criticizing injuries
- Cubs management should be ashamed of constantly putting stock in the same players who have suffered regular injuries. The fact that they went into this season with their success resting on Wood and Prior was just stupid. Wood was coming off injury and can't stay healthy. Prior seemingly always comes out of spring training delayed. They put all their eggs in the Prior/Wood basket in 2004 and again in 2005. You'd think Hendry would have learned.
- Prior, well there has been significant talk that he refuses to pitch through any pain. Its always something with him. What has been mentioned is that his father manages his career and does not want him to risk any injury so any ache or pain leads to significant loss of playing time so that Prior will one day land his long term big money contract.
- Wood has refused to change his mechanics and this has resulted in injuries for him. Now if you listen to media reports, it seems that he has finally changed his mechanics a bit and looks great. However he has lost a few years of production due to his unwillingness to alter his mechanics.
- Aramis is always one play away from a groin pull or a muscle strain. Cubs conditioning has not been good in recent years and they finally got someone to come to spring training this year to work on conditioning.
DmL
I agree
You're certainly
not inferior
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Pragmatism..
All we've been saying is that you don't have the right to determine whether someone's opinion is right or not.
if you knew
"reality is a matter of opinion" is what you mean -- and you know, for you, i wonder if in fact it isn't. you're one of the hardest of hardcore relativists. i've rarely interacted with someone so willing to dismiss the facts out of hand to preserve a fantasy intact and unchallenged.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I know exactly what the facts are...
Or keep hoping?
Do as you wish, but do not force your views on others.
don't worry
asking you to consider a bit more carefully what you're thinking, why you're thinking it and what the destructive ramifications are of those thoughts, however, is something i can and will always do.
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Believe it or not...
I differ with you on whether my opinions are "destructive", however.
I'm going to keep hoping until it is clearly beyond hope. I think you do the same, actually. Where we disagree is on where the point of hopelessness is located.
Pragmatism
let's not confuse, however
ends differ around here -- al professes to want escape, for example, and i want the team to win -- but i could agree that they are all fundamentally subjective, as least vis-a-vis a baseball team.
means, however, as you note, can be verified by experience as successful and productive -- and this is where al and i diverge most. al has not grasped nor does he make an effort to grasp at these verifiable rules of pragmatic assessment known collectively as "probability" -- which is not, fwiw, an attempt to render the unknowable deterministically knowable but to characterize the distribution of intrinsically unknowable phenomena; he instead prefers to substitute a notional ideology which is truly subjective, which he and others miscast as "optimism".
it is this refutation of the means of phenomenal assessment in experience that exposes his view for what it is -- not an attempt to apprehend reality but to escape it.
and worse, he does not seem to recognize it, instead wrongly insisting that he is engaging phenomena on their terms and not his own -- probably reflexively, as there is hardly anyone in educated civility that does not fancy themselves a "scientist" even though there seem to me to be remarkably few.
i find these trends in common thought and discourse to be both widespread and alarming. such refutation of the tactile and the experiential is what got the bush adminsitration sunk into a disaster in iraq, for example, with the assistance of many millions of similarly deluded americans -- this manner of ideological thought has real and severely debilitating consequences under many earthly conditions.
so i make a habit of pointing them out where i find them and trying to raise awareness about the damage it can cause. it's just a baseball team, some would say -- but i disagree. theater (which is all sport is) has long been the public forum for teaching complex and nuanced thought to ostensibly simple people. to concede the point on the grandest stage in decadent western civilization is tantamount to abdicating it everywhere. i, for one, will not.
great comment, w20k. :)
by gaius marius on May 9, 2006 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope you can see...
It's one thing to express your opinion of the current state of the Cubs franchise and your feelings about the team in general. It is quite another to call someone ignorant or imply that they just aren't bright enough to realize that the season is hopeless and that the rest of the summer is just playing out the string.
It's not even that I have a problem with that opinion. It's that it is just that; an opinion, not a demonstrable fact. On the contrary, it goes against all logic.
But, anyone who wants to "wave the white flag" on May 9th is more than welcome to do so.
Just don't try to convince me to join you or tell me that I'm somehow intellectually defective if choose not to do so.
by jazzman56 on May 9, 2006 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
however...
I'm not sure if you're saying that my opinion goes against all logic or all opinions do. If you feel that mine do, I'd prefer that you demonstrate why or just not respond.
DmL
I'm sorry...
The only thing I was trying to do is point out the difference between your post and many of the ones posted by gaius marius.
I carefully read your post, and I think you did a good job of articulating and explaining your feelings about the 2006 Cubs team. I'm in no way trying to dimish your feelings or try to convince you to feel otherwise.
In fact, since you "bleed cubbie blue" and I do not, there is ample reason for your feelings to run deeper than mine.
However, notably missing from your post is any attempt to belittle or denigrate anyone else's feelings, and to me, that is the difference. I am tired of being told that I somehow lack intelligence when I point out that waving the white flag on May 9th is not a logical reaction to what has transpired so far.
If, as you say, you cannot enjoy watching the 2006 Cubs, then I respect that.
But, if it is okay with you and everyone else, I will continue to watch with great curiosity to see how things transpire over the coming months.
And I hope we can continue to compare notes as the season unfolds, because that is what makes BCB fun for me.
by jazzman56 on May 10, 2006 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
if you have opinions
that's the entire point of this kind of discourse. if we aren't here to learn something about our own views, what are we here for? to soliliquize in a vacuum? a cubbie blue circle jerk?
i'll say again: i have no grounds to criticize anyone personally here; i don't know any of you; i don't know anything about your feelings.
your expressed views and ideas, however, will be made to bear the weight of criticism in a forum like this. (mine certainly have.) so if you choose to believe that this team can win in spite of the evidence that shows that they have a snowball's chance in hell, you'd best be prepared to defend it with something more than, "i wanna think what i wanna think!"
by gaius marius on May 10, 2006 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
We already have a better manager...
Better with Alliteration...
smells like
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Just gotta change some punctuation here..
No longer a sign
Oh, hell..Now I'M doing the B alliteration...
by elscorcho0682 on May 9, 2006 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Brenly
So you're saying...
Frankly, I'd like someone with a bit more experience, and a plan. I don't see Girardi as that, not yet, anyway.
FWIW, he's not a Chicago native. He's from Peoria.
Like Dusty Baker...
DB:"Hey Larry, What do we do now?"
LR: "The same thing we do every night, Pinky, come up with a plan to take over the world."
DB: "Say Larry you're sounding kinda scary with the take over the world non-sense I am just trying to win a baseball game."
LR: " You fool, maybe if you would stop treating the lineup like your own personal dartboard and stop insisting that Freddy Bynum is our savior.. we wouldn't be in this mess.
DB: "I miss my Macias..."
Not at all
While he was with the Cubs, he was a clubhouse leader. Not only was he very passionate about his job and this team (which every player should have, but seems to be the exception rather than the rule, lately), I think he handled the pitchers very well. I never had the chance to sit in the dugout and hear what he had to say gametime, but I've seen and read interviews which dispelled for me the notion that the catcher's gear is in fact the "tools of ignorance". I think he's got a great grasp of the game, and from what I remember, when he came out to the mound, he got the pitcher back into in the right place 9 times out of 10.
I like having a manager who was either a pitcher or a catcher, because based on my experience, they have the best grasp on the minutia of the game. Catchers usually have the best experience dealing with many difficult personalities, as pitchers tend to be the most persnickity players in a game which inherently lends itself to that. I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone informed who disagreed with the notion that of the big 4 sports, baseball players are far and away the most superstitious. By the very nature of the catcher/pitcher relationship, catchers are forced to collaborate and find out what brings out the best in a pitcher, and also when the pitcher has lost his stuff. I think Baker's lack of experience in this aspect is telling.
Optimism?
As you may know, no doubt know the 1906 White Sox won the AL then faced the Cubs in the World Series.
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