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June 15th is the anniversary of the Cubs worst trade ever.

Of course I'm speaking of June 15, 1964 when the Cubs traded a young outfielder by the name of Lou Brock to the St. Louis Cardinals for Ernie Broglio. Not only is this the worst trade in Cubs history, it may be the worst trade in baseball history (assuming Ruth from Boston to NY was not a trade but a sale).

To recognize this momentous date in Cub history, you're invited to list your all-time worst Cubs trades (and for bonus points any comparable baseball trades in general).

For those of you that don't remember "back in the day," June 15th was the trading deadline.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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December 5, 1992
 Rafael Palmeiro, Jamie Moyer and Drew Hall to Texas for Mitch Williams, Curtis Wilkerson, and a bunch of other guys.

Blech.

I know WHY they traded Raffy, but it didn't make it hurt any less.

Thinking of Mitch Williams made me think of Mitch Webster, which is who I should have identified in the podcast as ugliest Cub ever. Neifi has nothing on that guy. . .

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 15, 2006 10:28 AM CDT   0 recs

mitch webster...
You stole my thunder.

I was going to list Davey Martinez for Mitch Webster.  That probably wasn't the very worst trade ever (although it still doesn't make sense to me), but that was one of the most disappointing to me.

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Jun 15, 2006 10:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I couldn't agree with you guys more
The Wild thing trade was horrible. But I think the Lee Smith for Calvin Shiraldi and Al Nipper trade was the worst ever. That trade neccesitated the Raffy trade and set the Cubs back 20 years.

by wicubfan on Jun 15, 2006 10:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ears

Ha!  Is that Austin Kearns' father?

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Jun 15, 2006 10:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL!!!
The resemblance is uncanny!

Except this guy got into the hof.  I can safely say that Kearns will not.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jun 15, 2006 10:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That
just scared my dog.
she

by Sarah Hope on Jun 15, 2006 7:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

OH GOD
WHAT IS THAT?!
...the artist formerly priorpwnz.

by Faith plus 1 on Jun 15, 2006 8:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

al
i'm not sure what's scarier: that picture, or that it looks like that card comes from Al's personal collection and is under protective lucite.

by tomas21 on Jun 15, 2006 9:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

TX Trade

Ha.  I forgot about Drew Hall.  Ha!  Ugly man.  (sorry Drew...if you are a BCB'er)

I think we got lefty Paul Kilgus in that deal too.

Without that trade (specifically, the Wild Thing), the Cubs don't make the playoffs in 1989.  Of course, we weren't "guaranteed" to make the playoffs that year, nor was Palmeiro guaranteed to be the superstar that he became.  Buuuuut, what if I were to ask this generic (no-names) question:

"WOULD YOU trade a guaranteed future all-star for a guaranteed playoff appearance?"

I probably would.  The Cubs had a legitimate chance of beating the Giants and advancing to the World Series.

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Jun 15, 2006 10:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Which is what happened in 1984, too...
... sure, I'd have liked to have had Joe Carter in LF for the Cubs for 15 years, but they got Rick Sutcliffe and made the playoffs.

And if Sutcliffe hadn't gotten hurt, he'd have been a solid starter for the Cubs for a decade. As it is, he had four good seasons, helped the Cubs to two playoff appearances, and SHOULD have won a 2nd Cy Young in 1987.

by Al on Jun 15, 2006 7:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What I think I know
I think I know the "real reason" why the Cubs traded away Raffy, but could someone please let me know if the story is true.  I always believed it was beacause Ryne Sandberg's first wife had an affair with Raffy and Sandberg said that either he goes or I go.  Is that true?
"The only way to prove that you're a good sport is to lose." - Ernie Banks

by madog93 on Jun 15, 2006 11:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Without putting myself on the hook for libel,
that's the rumor we've all heard, yes.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 15, 2006 11:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

trade "proposal"

Bummer.  Sandberg eventually divorced his wife anyway, and Palmeiro's wife (Lynn?) was hot.  Couldn't Ryne and Raffy settled their differencs and just traded wives???

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Jun 15, 2006 11:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That doesn't work out as often as you might think.
n/t
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 15, 2006 11:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hehehe

No it just doesn't seem to work out in the end.

Just joking, of course...

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Jun 15, 2006 11:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I once wrote a song
for my old band that was about the Kekich/Peterson wife swap, "Fritz And Mike".

It rocked.

True story!

Luck is the residue of design. -- Branch Rickey

by Gregory on Jun 16, 2006 2:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It was in hindsight..
But of course the trade for Alfonseca and Clement has to be mentioned.

Some kid named Dontrelle Willis was one of the prospects we gave up. Oh, and the ever-gritty Julian Tavarez too.

Thought process was good at the time, (I guess) but bad for the future.

Poppppppppped it up...

by nextyearcub on Jun 15, 2006 10:31 AM CDT   0 recs

I'll disagree....
...sure, we lost Dontrelle in that deal.  But he's been hit pretty hard this year, which means what? Two or three good years by the kid? Certainly not a Brock-ian (or even Palmeiro-esque) mistake.

Sure, we eventually lost Clement, and Alfonseca didn't really pan out.  But Clement was solid while with the Cubs (very frequently a victim of poor run support - typical for the Cubs), and might not be a bad choice now in a trade if the Cubs want another starter (NL to AL always causes a pitcher to look worse, and vice versa is also true).

Overall, I'd say the Cubs have done pretty well in trades historically - the Brock and Palmeiro deals are rare exceptions.  George Bell (Jorge?) for Sammy Sosa came out in the Cubs favor (regardless of how you feel on the steroid issue) - so did Larry Bowa for a third baseman named Ryne Sandberg.  ARam and Lofton came over in a deal for Bobby Hill and a sack of balls (okay, probably more than that) and made a big difference in 2003.  

Overall, we're in much better shape than some other snake-bitten by trade clubs (Red Sox losing Bagwell, for instance).  A sign for hope? Perhaps....

by Chadnudj on Jun 15, 2006 10:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, but
Sure would have been nice to have Willis. Right now I just think he's with the wrong team. If/when he gets traded to a contender, it will be different IMO
Poppppppppped it up...

by nextyearcub on Jun 15, 2006 10:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Bowa wasn't traded for Sandberg
They both came to the Cubs in a deal with Philadelphia on January 27, 1982. The Phillies got Ivan DeJesus in return.

It was ostensibly a swap of starting shortstops, with the Phillies getting the younger (by eight years) and faster DeJesus and compensating for the difference by throwing in Sandberg, at Cubs GM Dallas Green's insistence.

Luck is the residue of design. -- Branch Rickey

by Gregory on Jun 16, 2006 2:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Tavarez is the ugliest !
Of the modern day Cubs, Julian Tavarez has to be at the top of the ugly list!

by Ihatethecards on Jun 15, 2006 10:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It was
Bowa AND Sandberg for Ivan DeJues.  Just thought I would correct that.
First Boston, then the White Sox, its now the Cubs turn.

by indytaz on Jun 15, 2006 1:01 PM CDT   0 recs

Which
Is the best trade by the Cubs ever
First Boston, then the White Sox, its now the Cubs turn.

by indytaz on Jun 15, 2006 1:01 PM CDT   0 recs

Bobby Hill (and?)
for Lofton, Simon, and Ramirez.

That's the best one in recent memory, anyway.

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 15, 2006 1:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

D-Lee
The Lee for Hee Seop trade looks pretty good.

by Richie Hebner 18 on Jun 15, 2006 1:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh yeah
forgot about that one. LOL.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 15, 2006 1:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Getting rid of Todd Hundley's contract
for Grud and Karros (anyone else involved?)

by tcjhawk on Jun 15, 2006 2:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dickie Noles
My favorite is the Cubs sending Dickie Noles to the Tigers for a PTBNL and the Tigers turning around and sending Noles right back.

by Richie Hebner 18 on Jun 15, 2006 1:16 PM CDT   0 recs

Those two
were good trades, but if you look at everything, good and bad, in the long term,  You recieved a older shortstop who had a good career and a future hall of fame second basemen for a throw away shortstop.  The other two have to play out yet.  Lofton and Simon are already long gone, and people are starting to talk about Ramirez and is he trying and should we trade him.  With D Lee, he looks great, and I hope he is playing first for along time, but I'm not sure he is hall of fame material yet.  Therefor, Sandberg trade, best ever.
First Boston, then the White Sox, its now the Cubs turn.

by indytaz on Jun 15, 2006 1:16 PM CDT   0 recs

Best Trade Ever
I guess my opinions were more in the more in same light as VH1s Best Week Ever.  Anything that didn't happen in the last 10 minutes doesn't count.

Honestly, though, the Sandberg trade is right there near the top.

Worst?  Trading Dennis Eckersley to the A's for Brian Guinn, Dave Wilder and Mark Leonette.

by Richie Hebner 18 on Jun 15, 2006 1:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Rick Monday
trade was the worst for me, simply because I was a huge Rick Monday fan and I was only 8 years old then, so I was devestated.
First Boston, then the White Sox, its now the Cubs turn.

by indytaz on Jun 15, 2006 1:29 PM CDT   0 recs

That actually...
... was a good deal for the Cubs. They got Ivan DeJesus and Bill Buckner, both of whom had several productive seasons.

Then they traded Buckner for Dennis Eckersley. Oh, if only they had kept Eckersley.

And, DeJesus was traded for Ryne Sandberg. That one worked out pretty well.

by Al on Jun 15, 2006 7:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Some trades...
Some trades seem like a good idea at the time, but in retrospect you wonder if they were or not.

For example - and I think this point has merit - Jorge Bell for Sammy Sosa seemed like a good idea at the time, especially when Bell went MIA two years later.

But with Sammy becoming such a persona non grata in his later years with the Cubs, you wonder how the previous decade would have looked if that trade had never gone down.  At least I do.

by Sidd Finch on Jun 15, 2006 2:14 PM CDT   0 recs

Persona non grata or not
Sosa still hit over 500 home runs as a Cub and was the major offensive cornerstone of the 1998 NL wild card team and the 2003 NL Central champions.

You can't question that trade. George Bell for Sammy Sosa and Ken Patterson was one of the all-time great steals in MLB history.

Luck is the residue of design. -- Branch Rickey

by Gregory on Jun 16, 2006 2:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Brock deal...
... keep in mind what was happening at the time.

The Cubs had had a decent year in 1963, finishing over .500 for the first time in 17 years. Dick Ellsworth, a young lefty, won 22 games. There was hope.

Then Ken Hubbs was killed in a plane crash in the offseason. The Cubs stumbled to a bad start, and Brock was struggling -- as they were trying to force him to be a power hitter, which he was ill-suited to be.

On June 14 (the 15th was an off-day), the Cubs were 27-27 -- a game and a half AHEAD of the Cardinals, 5.5 games out of first place, 2.5 out of third.

Broglio was 28 years old and had won eighteen games for the Cardinals the year before. EVERY SINGLE SPORTSWRITER in Chicago and St. Louis thought the Cubs had snookered the Cardinals. At the time Broglio was roughly comparable to, say, what Mark Mulder is today. Would you trade Felix Pie for Mark Mulder? Sure you would.

Only in hindsight is this deal terrible.

The Cubs' BEST deal, retrospectively, was getting Ryne Sandberg (and a couple years worth of Larry Bowa) for Ivan DeJesus.

They also got Fergie Jenkins for two over-the-hill pitchers, Larry Jackson and Bob Buhl.

by Al on Jun 15, 2006 5:30 PM CDT   0 recs

Ron Santo, Billy Williams and Ernie Banks all ....
....disagree with you per this Santo interview with The Heckler.

"TH: The Cubs traded Lou Brock in 1964. Do you think that if they had kept him, with his speed and ability to create runs, the team might have won a few pennants?
RS: There's no doubt about that. That we traded him was a surprise to every player on the team. I was at a golf tournament with Bob Kennedy, who was the head coach at the time. We were playing golf, and he was called off of the golf course and we didn't know what was going on. He came back later for the dinner and told us we traded Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio. I remember I said, "How could you trade Lou Brock?" Billy (Williams) and Ernie (Banks) felt the same way. We all knew how good he was going to be. You don't just look at the talent. You look at what kind of makeup this guy has. He had all of the right things going for him."

 http://www.theheckler.com/index.php?page=04_05_31_SpotlightSanto&idrub=18&idsite=1

I can also tell you that my father and grandfather grew up in St. Louis. My grandfather owned the parking lot at Sportsmans Park where the Cardinal players left their cars and my dad worked at a drugstore making deliveries to many Cardinal players (his two favorites were Dizzy Dean and Johnny Mize). Dad moved away as an adult. He received a call after the Brock/Broglio trade from his father who told him the Cardinal players were stunned by the trade and couldn't believe they were picking up Brock for Broglio who was beginning to experience the arm soreness that would shortly thereafter end his career.

I'll have to show you the memorabilia my grandfather collected for me over the years.

"I was not in optimum condition to manage ," Dusty said. "I regret that lapse in judgment."

by Reverend Jim Ignatowski on Jun 15, 2006 9:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe so, Jim ...
... but it's far from "the worst trade of all time."

I can think of three trades that the Cubs made that either counterbalance or exceed the ultimate lopsidedness of Brock-for-Broglio. Al mentioned one: On April 21, 1966, the Phillies traded a 24-year-old reliever named Ferguson Jenkins, along with 1B/OF John Herrnstein and outfielder Adolfo Phillips, to the Cubs for veteran righthanders Larry Jackson and Bob Buhl. Jackson had three fair seasons for the Phillies as an every-fourth-day starter, going 41-45, before arm trouble forced him to retire after the '68 season. Buhl was rocked in '66 to the tune of a 4.77 ERA, and retired shortly after the '67 season began.

Herrnstein never amounted to anything, and the Cubs dealt him to the Braves a month later. But Adolfo Phillips would be the starting centerfielder for the Cubs for three years ... and Fergie Jenkins would go on to a Hall of Fame career that included 167 wins in a Cubs uniform and six straight years as a 20-game winner for the Cubs.

The second trade would be the DeJesus-for-Bowa-and-Sandberg trade ... and thank God that Cubs GM Dallas Green insisted upon having the Phillies throw in Sandberg as the third player in that deal. The idea was that Philadelphia had to counterbalance the fact that, in what was ostensibly a swap of starting shortstops, the Cubs were getting a shortstop who was eight years older (and not nearly as fast in the field or on the bases) than his counterpart.

However, even in terms of Bowa and DeJesus, the deal worked to the advantage of the Cubs; DeJesus would start for three years as the Phillies' SS, batting .239, .254, and .257 and doing a subpar job in the field (and never stealing more than 16 bases, even though he had been one of the most feared basestealers in the NL as a Cub) before they shipped him off to St. Louis as a throw-in in the Bill Campbell deal. Bowa lasted longer as a Cub than DeJesus did as a Phillie, and posted roughly equal numbers to DeJesus, before the emergence of Shawon Dunston made him expendable and the Cubs cut him in August of '85.

And that's without taking Sandberg into consideration.

Third, the Bell-for-Sosa-and-Patterson trade. Never mind the fact that the Cubs got a guy who would go on to hit 500+ homers for them in exchange for a guy who would have one mediocre season and one bad season as a White Sock before he left baseball to go pump gas back home in the Dominican Republic -- the White Sox even threw in another player, lefty reliever Ken Patterson, as part of the deal! Talk about adding insult to injury!

I understand the mythology that has grown around Brock-for-Broglio over the years. It's a hallowed part of the woe-is-us lore of Cubs Nation. But, looking at it honestly, the Cubs have done better at taking future Hall of Famers from other teams than they have at giving them up to others (you can add Hack Wilson, KiKi Cuyler, and Rogers Hornsby to that list of Cubs HOFers acquired via trade as well). If you told any objective baseball observer that his team could have either Lou Brock or the trio of Fergie Jenkins, Ryne Sandberg, and Sammy Sosa as a part of their team's trading history, I think they'd take the latter three any day of the week.

Luck is the residue of design. -- Branch Rickey

by Gregory on Jun 16, 2006 2:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, I agree with you completely,.....
....I was just focusing on bad trades for the Cubs, not the good ones. Certainly all the trades you mentioned were great, that's just not the side of the coin I was discussing.
"I was not in optimum condition to manage ," Dusty said. "I regret that lapse in judgment."

by Reverend Jim Ignatowski on Jun 16, 2006 8:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree
Rob Neyer talked about the deal rather extensively when his book came out a month ago in one of his columns.  He talked about how Brock was in essence Corey Patterson.  Lots of natural talent, but at 25 still hadn't quite figured it out and it didn't seem like he ever would.  The Mulder comparison is accurate, as well.  Mulder hasn't been quite as hot lately, either and maybe he'll be out of baseball in a year or two as well.  

by MikeJ on Jun 16, 2006 11:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

...and the question now of course....
...Is Patterson the next Lou Brock?

by MikeJ on Jun 16, 2006 11:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What are you trying to do?
Induce mass suicide on this board? Some questions are better left unanswered. . . .
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 16, 2006 11:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Another bad trade
Bruce Sutter for Leon Durham and Ken Reitz.

by Tinker2Evers2Chance on Jun 15, 2006 7:06 PM CDT   0 recs

I know its early
And I have been a Nolasco fan since day one, Mitre, Pinto and Nolasco for Pierre. Check Nolasco again tonight against the Braves, This Kid will be GOOD. And will the Cubs sign Pierre??, I do not see how after this year, and yes I know we have 90 some games to go, but this year is done and Pierre will be in a another uniform next year, and Nolasco will win 15 games with a bad Marlin team.
Where is Carmen Fanzone?

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jun 15, 2006 8:24 PM CDT   0 recs

the worst part
is that that trade is ALREADY heavily in favor of the Marlins, who probably have several extra wins from those pitchers than we got from Pierre. But after this year, we have nothing and they still get those guys for 5 more years.
This trade could be quite a bit worse than the Dontrelle trade, because at least that trade nearly got us to the world series. (and if dusty had used clement instead of veres in game 7, it might have ....well, who knows).

by tomas21 on Jun 15, 2006 9:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well
that patteson trade ain't looking too good. (yes I know, "let's take a look again in another month, be patient etc.") JHJ for Sosa was pretty crap, although when you drag a guy through the mud for 5 months then try to trade him that will happen.

by mike bornemann on Jun 16, 2006 10:26 AM CDT   0 recs

at the time...
...it was a crap haul to receive for Sosa.  (thanks to the Cubs brilliant value-reducing maneuvers).  

However, Hairston, as mediocre as he was, actually outperformed Sosa.  So it shouldn't be listed among the bad trades.

by MikeJ on Jun 16, 2006 11:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah
but I think you get more for him if you are half way intelligent.

by mike bornemann on Jun 17, 2006 5:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

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