June 15th is the anniversary of the Cubs worst trade ever.
Of course I'm speaking of June 15, 1964 when the Cubs traded a young outfielder by the name of Lou Brock to the St. Louis Cardinals for Ernie Broglio. Not only is this the worst trade in Cubs history, it may be the worst trade in baseball history (assuming Ruth from Boston to NY was not a trade but a sale).
To recognize this momentous date in Cub history, you're invited to list your all-time worst Cubs trades (and for bonus points any comparable baseball trades in general).
For those of you that don't remember "back in the day," June 15th was the trading deadline.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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December 5, 1992
Blech.
I know WHY they traded Raffy, but it didn't make it hurt any less.
Thinking of Mitch Williams made me think of Mitch Webster, which is who I should have identified in the podcast as ugliest Cub ever. Neifi has nothing on that guy. . .
by cubbiejulie on Jun 15, 2006 10:28 AM CDT 0 recs
mitch webster...
I was going to list Davey Martinez for Mitch Webster. That probably wasn't the very worst trade ever (although it still doesn't make sense to me), but that was one of the most disappointing to me.
by Ghost of Fred Merkle on
Jun 15, 2006 10:37 AM CDT
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I couldn't agree with you guys more
by wicubfan on
Jun 15, 2006 10:41 AM CDT
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Ugliest Cub EVER
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0654/s065487.jpg
by Sarah Hope on
Jun 15, 2006 10:46 AM CDT
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ears
Ha! Is that Austin Kearns' father?
by Ghost of Fred Merkle on
Jun 15, 2006 10:49 AM CDT
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LOL!!!
Except this guy got into the hof. I can safely say that Kearns will not.
by Sarah Hope on
Jun 15, 2006 10:50 AM CDT
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OH GOD
by Faith plus 1 on
Jun 15, 2006 8:31 PM CDT
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al
by tomas21 on
Jun 15, 2006 9:55 PM CDT
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TX Trade
Ha. I forgot about Drew Hall. Ha! Ugly man. (sorry Drew...if you are a BCB'er)
I think we got lefty Paul Kilgus in that deal too.
Without that trade (specifically, the Wild Thing), the Cubs don't make the playoffs in 1989. Of course, we weren't "guaranteed" to make the playoffs that year, nor was Palmeiro guaranteed to be the superstar that he became. Buuuuut, what if I were to ask this generic (no-names) question:
"WOULD YOU trade a guaranteed future all-star for a guaranteed playoff appearance?"
I probably would. The Cubs had a legitimate chance of beating the Giants and advancing to the World Series.
by Ghost of Fred Merkle on
Jun 15, 2006 10:46 AM CDT
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Which is what happened in 1984, too...
And if Sutcliffe hadn't gotten hurt, he'd have been a solid starter for the Cubs for a decade. As it is, he had four good seasons, helped the Cubs to two playoff appearances, and SHOULD have won a 2nd Cy Young in 1987.
by Al on
Jun 15, 2006 7:15 PM CDT
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What I think I know
by madog93 on
Jun 15, 2006 11:11 AM CDT
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Without putting myself on the hook for libel,
by cubbiejulie on
Jun 15, 2006 11:18 AM CDT
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trade "proposal"
Bummer. Sandberg eventually divorced his wife anyway, and Palmeiro's wife (Lynn?) was hot. Couldn't Ryne and Raffy settled their differencs and just traded wives???
by Ghost of Fred Merkle on
Jun 15, 2006 11:21 AM CDT
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That doesn't work out as often as you might think.
by cubbiejulie on
Jun 15, 2006 11:24 AM CDT
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hehehe
No it just doesn't seem to work out in the end.
Just joking, of course...
by Ghost of Fred Merkle on
Jun 15, 2006 11:42 AM CDT
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I once wrote a song
It rocked.
True story!
by Gregory on
Jun 16, 2006 2:21 AM CDT
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It was in hindsight..
Some kid named Dontrelle Willis was one of the prospects we gave up. Oh, and the ever-gritty Julian Tavarez too.
Thought process was good at the time, (I guess) but bad for the future.
by nextyearcub on Jun 15, 2006 10:31 AM CDT 0 recs
I'll disagree....
Sure, we eventually lost Clement, and Alfonseca didn't really pan out. But Clement was solid while with the Cubs (very frequently a victim of poor run support - typical for the Cubs), and might not be a bad choice now in a trade if the Cubs want another starter (NL to AL always causes a pitcher to look worse, and vice versa is also true).
Overall, I'd say the Cubs have done pretty well in trades historically - the Brock and Palmeiro deals are rare exceptions. George Bell (Jorge?) for Sammy Sosa came out in the Cubs favor (regardless of how you feel on the steroid issue) - so did Larry Bowa for a third baseman named Ryne Sandberg. ARam and Lofton came over in a deal for Bobby Hill and a sack of balls (okay, probably more than that) and made a big difference in 2003.
Overall, we're in much better shape than some other snake-bitten by trade clubs (Red Sox losing Bagwell, for instance). A sign for hope? Perhaps....
by Chadnudj on
Jun 15, 2006 10:43 AM CDT
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Yeah, but
by nextyearcub on
Jun 15, 2006 10:54 AM CDT
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Bowa wasn't traded for Sandberg
It was ostensibly a swap of starting shortstops, with the Phillies getting the younger (by eight years) and faster DeJesus and compensating for the difference by throwing in Sandberg, at Cubs GM Dallas Green's insistence.
by Gregory on
Jun 16, 2006 2:25 AM CDT
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Tavarez is the ugliest !
by Ihatethecards on
Jun 15, 2006 10:49 AM CDT
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It was
by indytaz on Jun 15, 2006 1:01 PM CDT 0 recs
Which
by indytaz on Jun 15, 2006 1:01 PM CDT 0 recs
Bobby Hill (and?)
That's the best one in recent memory, anyway.
by cubbiejulie on
Jun 15, 2006 1:02 PM CDT
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D-Lee
by Richie Hebner 18 on
Jun 15, 2006 1:11 PM CDT
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Oh yeah
by cubbiejulie on
Jun 15, 2006 1:12 PM CDT
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Getting rid of Todd Hundley's contract
by tcjhawk on
Jun 15, 2006 2:19 PM CDT
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Dickie Noles
by Richie Hebner 18 on Jun 15, 2006 1:16 PM CDT 0 recs
Those two
by indytaz on Jun 15, 2006 1:16 PM CDT 0 recs
Best Trade Ever
Honestly, though, the Sandberg trade is right there near the top.
Worst? Trading Dennis Eckersley to the A's for Brian Guinn, Dave Wilder and Mark Leonette.
by Richie Hebner 18 on
Jun 15, 2006 1:23 PM CDT
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The Rick Monday
by indytaz on Jun 15, 2006 1:29 PM CDT 0 recs
That actually...
Then they traded Buckner for Dennis Eckersley. Oh, if only they had kept Eckersley.
And, DeJesus was traded for Ryne Sandberg. That one worked out pretty well.
by Al on
Jun 15, 2006 7:10 PM CDT
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Some trades...
For example - and I think this point has merit - Jorge Bell for Sammy Sosa seemed like a good idea at the time, especially when Bell went MIA two years later.
But with Sammy becoming such a persona non grata in his later years with the Cubs, you wonder how the previous decade would have looked if that trade had never gone down. At least I do.
by Sidd Finch on Jun 15, 2006 2:14 PM CDT 0 recs
Persona non grata or not
You can't question that trade. George Bell for Sammy Sosa and Ken Patterson was one of the all-time great steals in MLB history.
by Gregory on
Jun 16, 2006 2:28 AM CDT
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The Brock deal...
The Cubs had had a decent year in 1963, finishing over .500 for the first time in 17 years. Dick Ellsworth, a young lefty, won 22 games. There was hope.
Then Ken Hubbs was killed in a plane crash in the offseason. The Cubs stumbled to a bad start, and Brock was struggling -- as they were trying to force him to be a power hitter, which he was ill-suited to be.
On June 14 (the 15th was an off-day), the Cubs were 27-27 -- a game and a half AHEAD of the Cardinals, 5.5 games out of first place, 2.5 out of third.
Broglio was 28 years old and had won eighteen games for the Cardinals the year before. EVERY SINGLE SPORTSWRITER in Chicago and St. Louis thought the Cubs had snookered the Cardinals. At the time Broglio was roughly comparable to, say, what Mark Mulder is today. Would you trade Felix Pie for Mark Mulder? Sure you would.
Only in hindsight is this deal terrible.
The Cubs' BEST deal, retrospectively, was getting Ryne Sandberg (and a couple years worth of Larry Bowa) for Ivan DeJesus.
They also got Fergie Jenkins for two over-the-hill pitchers, Larry Jackson and Bob Buhl.
by Al on Jun 15, 2006 5:30 PM CDT 0 recs
Ron Santo, Billy Williams and Ernie Banks all ....
"TH: The Cubs traded Lou Brock in 1964. Do you think that if they had kept him, with his speed and ability to create runs, the team might have won a few pennants?
RS: There's no doubt about that. That we traded him was a surprise to every player on the team. I was at a golf tournament with Bob Kennedy, who was the head coach at the time. We were playing golf, and he was called off of the golf course and we didn't know what was going on. He came back later for the dinner and told us we traded Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio. I remember I said, "How could you trade Lou Brock?" Billy (Williams) and Ernie (Banks) felt the same way. We all knew how good he was going to be. You don't just look at the talent. You look at what kind of makeup this guy has. He had all of the right things going for him."
http://www.theheckler.com/index.php?page=04_05_31_SpotlightSanto&idrub=18&idsite=1
I can also tell you that my father and grandfather grew up in St. Louis. My grandfather owned the parking lot at Sportsmans Park where the Cardinal players left their cars and my dad worked at a drugstore making deliveries to many Cardinal players (his two favorites were Dizzy Dean and Johnny Mize). Dad moved away as an adult. He received a call after the Brock/Broglio trade from his father who told him the Cardinal players were stunned by the trade and couldn't believe they were picking up Brock for Broglio who was beginning to experience the arm soreness that would shortly thereafter end his career.
I'll have to show you the memorabilia my grandfather collected for me over the years.
by Reverend Jim Ignatowski on
Jun 15, 2006 9:50 PM CDT
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Maybe so, Jim ...
I can think of three trades that the Cubs made that either counterbalance or exceed the ultimate lopsidedness of Brock-for-Broglio. Al mentioned one: On April 21, 1966, the Phillies traded a 24-year-old reliever named Ferguson Jenkins, along with 1B/OF John Herrnstein and outfielder Adolfo Phillips, to the Cubs for veteran righthanders Larry Jackson and Bob Buhl. Jackson had three fair seasons for the Phillies as an every-fourth-day starter, going 41-45, before arm trouble forced him to retire after the '68 season. Buhl was rocked in '66 to the tune of a 4.77 ERA, and retired shortly after the '67 season began.
Herrnstein never amounted to anything, and the Cubs dealt him to the Braves a month later. But Adolfo Phillips would be the starting centerfielder for the Cubs for three years ... and Fergie Jenkins would go on to a Hall of Fame career that included 167 wins in a Cubs uniform and six straight years as a 20-game winner for the Cubs.
The second trade would be the DeJesus-for-Bowa-and-Sandberg trade ... and thank God that Cubs GM Dallas Green insisted upon having the Phillies throw in Sandberg as the third player in that deal. The idea was that Philadelphia had to counterbalance the fact that, in what was ostensibly a swap of starting shortstops, the Cubs were getting a shortstop who was eight years older (and not nearly as fast in the field or on the bases) than his counterpart.
However, even in terms of Bowa and DeJesus, the deal worked to the advantage of the Cubs; DeJesus would start for three years as the Phillies' SS, batting .239, .254, and .257 and doing a subpar job in the field (and never stealing more than 16 bases, even though he had been one of the most feared basestealers in the NL as a Cub) before they shipped him off to St. Louis as a throw-in in the Bill Campbell deal. Bowa lasted longer as a Cub than DeJesus did as a Phillie, and posted roughly equal numbers to DeJesus, before the emergence of Shawon Dunston made him expendable and the Cubs cut him in August of '85.
And that's without taking Sandberg into consideration.
Third, the Bell-for-Sosa-and-Patterson trade. Never mind the fact that the Cubs got a guy who would go on to hit 500+ homers for them in exchange for a guy who would have one mediocre season and one bad season as a White Sock before he left baseball to go pump gas back home in the Dominican Republic -- the White Sox even threw in another player, lefty reliever Ken Patterson, as part of the deal! Talk about adding insult to injury!
I understand the mythology that has grown around Brock-for-Broglio over the years. It's a hallowed part of the woe-is-us lore of Cubs Nation. But, looking at it honestly, the Cubs have done better at taking future Hall of Famers from other teams than they have at giving them up to others (you can add Hack Wilson, KiKi Cuyler, and Rogers Hornsby to that list of Cubs HOFers acquired via trade as well). If you told any objective baseball observer that his team could have either Lou Brock or the trio of Fergie Jenkins, Ryne Sandberg, and Sammy Sosa as a part of their team's trading history, I think they'd take the latter three any day of the week.
by Gregory on
Jun 16, 2006 2:59 AM CDT
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Oh, I agree with you completely,.....
by Reverend Jim Ignatowski on
Jun 16, 2006 8:23 AM CDT
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I agree
by MikeJ on
Jun 16, 2006 11:13 AM CDT
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...and the question now of course....
by MikeJ on
Jun 16, 2006 11:14 AM CDT
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What are you trying to do?
by cubbiejulie on
Jun 16, 2006 11:36 AM CDT
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Another bad trade
by Tinker2Evers2Chance on Jun 15, 2006 7:06 PM CDT 0 recs
I know its early
by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jun 15, 2006 8:24 PM CDT 0 recs
the worst part
This trade could be quite a bit worse than the Dontrelle trade, because at least that trade nearly got us to the world series. (and if dusty had used clement instead of veres in game 7, it might have ....well, who knows).
by tomas21 on
Jun 15, 2006 9:58 PM CDT
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well
by mike bornemann on Jun 16, 2006 10:26 AM CDT 0 recs
at the time...
However, Hairston, as mediocre as he was, actually outperformed Sosa. So it shouldn't be listed among the bad trades.
by MikeJ on
Jun 16, 2006 11:11 AM CDT
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yeah
by mike bornemann on
Jun 17, 2006 5:27 PM CDT
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