Scoop!
I'll write a few notes on today's highly entertaining 15-11 Cub win over the White Sox in a moment.
First, I want to tell you of a trade rumor I heard today, and you're going to dismiss it, but I heard this from a source I trust, and it makes sense on a number of different levels.
The Cubs are reportedly "in discussions" with the Yankees for a deal in which the principals would be Aramis Ramirez... and Alex Rodriguez.
Yes, that's right, A-Rod could become a Cub.
Don't laugh. It does make sense; apparently the Yankees are maxed out enough on their payroll and luxury tax that they are looking to cut; they seem somewhat disappointed in A-Rod's performance so far this year, which, although very good (.279/.390/.502), is below his career norms, and they apparently feel that Ramirez, once he gets to a place where he doesn't have to be the main guy (and also would have a large Dominican community to support him), would blossom.
The Cubs, of course, can well afford the remaining years on A-Rod's contract (four more years plus a buyout), and would be making two statements by acquiring him:
- he's acknowledged as one of the best hitters in the game;
- he is a marketable star, something the Cubs have lacked since Sammy Sosa left.
This deal, if it happens, might also include Jacque Jones, and other lesser players including prospects on both sides.
I know, I know, you think I'm out of my mind. But if this happens, remember where you heard it first.
This same source told me that the White Sox are "close" to acquiring Andruw Jones from the Braves; the price would be Brian Anderson and young pitching. That deal would also make sense for both sides.
If the A-Rod to the Cubs deal happens, also expect Todd Walker to be moved (maybe to the Tigers), and at that point A-Rod moves back to SS, Ronny Cedeno to 2B, and the Cubs get a placeholder 3B until they can either sign one or trade for one in the offseason.
There! That's some food for thought for you, while you digest today's win. How this team scored 15 runs, I'll never know, especially with the lineup they fielded today. Angel Pagan, who has just about as bad an arm in RF as Jones, hit his first two major league homers today, both off Cliff Politte (some of the Sox fans around us today can't figure out why he was activated from the DL, since he seems as if he might still be hurt). Neifi also homered -- off Mark Buehrle. Carlos Zambrano homered off Buehrle. Neifi hit a two-run double off Buehrle.
Are you getting the idea that Buehrle had nothing today? He gave up ten earned runs, and it's not often that a starting pitcher is left in to take a beating like that (although the Sox gave such a beating to the Cardinals just last week, with Jason Marquis giving up thirteen earned runs).
Incidentally, that was Z's third HR of the season, at the halfway point. The last Cub pitcher to have as many or more in a single year was Fergie Jenkins, who had six in 1971, his Cy Young year, when he also won 24 games, and had 20 RBI to boot. Since Z hit his HR righthanded off the LH-hitting Buehrle, we were hoping he'd get an at-bat against a RHP reliever, so he'd have a shot at switch-hitting HR in a game, something no pitcher has ever done.
It was that kind of day. It rained hard before the game started for about half an hour, but cleared out and just sprinkled briefly during the game. Jesus The Nice Sox Fan, who I have sat next to at the Cubs/Sox games at the Cell the last couple of years, showed up and sat in front of us today, along with a couple of Cub fan friends of his, one of whom wore a 2004 Zambrano All-Star jersey from Houston's game that year.
The Sox made it interesting a couple of times, even after the seven-run Cub first; Juan Uribe, who had a fabulous series, hit a three-run HR in the 5th (none of us could understand this -- with two out and Buehrle due up next, why even pitch to him? Pitch AROUND him) to make it 7-5, and after Neifi's HR made it 11-5, the Sox cuffed around Scott Williamson (who, as noted in the game thread, went on local sports talk radio to slam the Cubs today, making it likely he'll be traded soon -- if anyone wants him after he sucked bigtime this afternoon), making it 11-7, and the two teams traded home runs by Joe Crede, Tadahito Iguchi, and Pagan, before Bob Howry finally finished it off with a forceout -- and 2B umpire Mike Reilly called that last out as if he had to THINK about it before he called it.
Howry was credited with a save, his second. I think this is incorrectly credited. A pitcher gets a save for one of three conditions:
a) coming in with the tying run on base, at bat or on deck;
b) pitching at least one full inning with no more than a three-run lead;
c) pitching three full innings with ANY lead.
Howry came into the game with a three-run lead and no one on base after Iguchi's HR. He registered an out on one pitch. After that the Cubs extended the lead to five runs; Howry DID pitch a full inning (plus), but doesn't seem to qualify under ANY of the above conditions. His full inning came AFTER the Cubs had made the lead more than three runs.
Anyway, it really doesn't matter since the Cubs did salvage one game out of this series (better than the Cardinals did against the White Sox!), and at least head on the road with a win over a very, very good team.
Sign seen: outside the park at Waveland and Kenmore, where the ballhawks sit during the game in folding chairs, a cardboard sign headed on top "DUMB QUESTIONS" with some tally marks; then the bottom of the sign "DUMB QUESTIONS FROM SOX FANS" with some more tally marks. The count of each seemed about equal.
Enjoy this juicy scoop I got today. It may never happen. But if it does, remember who told you.
0 recs |
184 comments
Comments
A-Rod?
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 5:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If This Happens...
by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like
It won't happen. On both counts.
by Matt Allison on Jul 2, 2006 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Poll
by Frustrated Fan on Jul 2, 2006 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a deal that make sense...
by Ross on Jul 2, 2006 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too.....
The Cubs would make a logical destination for ARod, BUT, the luxury tax idea that you floated Al does not hold water.
As stated earlier, Texas had agreed to pay a large portion of the remaining money. The Yankees are on the hook for 16-17 mil per the final years of the deal. The full dollar value of the contract does not hit the Yankees payroll because of the Texas payoff. That portion remains on their books. If you trade ARam and Jones, the dollars cancel out. There is no luxury tax savings.
by timeforachange on Jul 3, 2006 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
by jolietconvict on Jul 3, 2006 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The.....
by timeforachange on Jul 3, 2006 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Verification.....
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/alex-rodriguez_01.html
by timeforachange on Jul 3, 2006 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
Someone from the Cubs also let the cat out of the bag by saying that Z is in all-star. Of course, the real surprise would be if he wasn't.
As for A-Rod, if the Cubs get him, awsome x100. But I wont bother to get my hopes up.
by VS on Jul 2, 2006 5:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
by bergs55 on Jul 2, 2006 5:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wrigleyville may not be the Bronx
by mike on Jul 3, 2006 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get me wrong...it would be wonderful...
But c'mon...the Yankees wouldn't make this deal during the season unless they get more than just Aramis. It would take Jacque, and pitching too boot, which we really don't have.
I just don't see the Yankees doing this kind of deal until the offseason. Right now they need A-Rod if they are going to stay in the AL East race, and even though he has struggled by his standards this year, all it will take is a hot week or two, and suddenly he's untradeable again.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 5:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The season is over...
A-Rod is Pujols with a little bit more athletic ability. This rumor makes me happy.. but I doubt it happens or even comes close to happening. Steinbrenner will not deal his marquee player.
by cubsfan2883 on Jul 2, 2006 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not getting my hopes up.
by CubFaninCA on Jul 3, 2006 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd poop my pants nonstop for 3 days
by grifdog on Jul 2, 2006 5:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you saying
by grifdog on Jul 2, 2006 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn!
by grifdog on Jul 2, 2006 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Christmas Is Fast Approaching....
by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
Pierre CF
Cedeno, 2B
Lee 1B
Rodriguez SS
Nevin 3B
Barret, C
Murton, LF
Pie RF
Pitcher
by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
RF..
I am thinking the deal would include Pierre.
by cubsfan2883 on Jul 2, 2006 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by VS on Jul 2, 2006 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nevin at 3B
by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay Then....
by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am sure I am in the minority
He is in fact in decline and would eat a huge chunk
of payroll. I am also curious as to if he and Aramis
have any no trade clause. A Rod would certainly
not leave New York of his one free will.
I hope this is just a silly rumour. In any event
the Yankees like everyone else need pitching badly
and that is what they will trade for. This trade
makes little sense for them
by jessica on Jul 2, 2006 5:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A-Rod in decline?
There's so much wrong with that statement I have no hope of even convincing you that the facts point entirely in the opposite direction from what you said.
A-Rod would be an ENORMOUS BOOST.
If this deal is for real, you do whatever it takes to pull it off.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Rod is having an "off year"
in the best mood to take that chance. His power is
down signicantly and he has been doing poorly in the
clutch for most of the year. The charmingly impatiant
Yankee fans are booing him somewhat ruthlessly
He is not worth 20 million a year , let alone 20 Million
a year, A-Ram and Jones ( Yes I actually think Jones
has value or at least that we have no replacement so
letting him go would be like letting Alou go )
I would rather keep A Ram and spend the money
on Carlos Lee.
I also admit my prejudice in that I don't generally
care for self centered jackasses.
Anyway not gonna happen. Like I said the Yankees
NEED pitching. They can scroung some hitting elsewhere
by jessica on Jul 2, 2006 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would make sense
by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that being said
by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the problem I have with it...
The free agent crop at third is a wasteland.
Edgardo Alfonzo
Rich Aurilia
Tony Batista
David Bell
Mark Bellhorn
Geoff Blum
Aaron Boone
Vinny Castilla
Jeff Cirillo
Pedro Feliz
Tony Graffanino
Wes Helms
Aubrey Huff
Joe Randa
I see that list and I want to puke.
Trade-wise we might be able to make a run at someone like Chone Figgins, who is rumored to be traded by the Angels, though his numbers this year aren't that much better than the suddenly hot Juan Pierre, who I would be inclined to keep if he continues to hit as nobody works harder than Juan Pierre.
Perhaps sign David Bell, who is a very strong defensive third baseman, or possibly try to pry away Garret Atkins from the Rockies, who is standing in the way of prospect Ian Stewart, but trading for A-Rod means we have to, in addition to finding a third bat to go with Lee-A-Rod in the middle of the order, find a third baseman who isn't going to be a black hole offensively.
Somewhere in all that moving, I bet Felix Pie is one of the pieces that we will have to trade. If the result is we have A-Rod and say Garret Atkins, would anybody complain?
I don't think I would.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon!
by Matt Allison on Jul 2, 2006 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The talk I heard...
by Al on Jul 3, 2006 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somethings....
Al, I love your optimism. However, the facts do not match up. The premise behind the ARod trade is dead wrong. It is not a salary saver by the NYY. I question your source.
That being said, I hope a deal could be worked out. I would love to have ARod. I just wonder how much of this is an attempt to try to add life into this horrible season.
by timeforachange on Jul 3, 2006 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless...
by cubsfan2883 on Jul 3, 2006 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
-A rented player in Ramirez as he likely test an otherwise weak 3B free agent market this winter.
-An OF in JJones that will have to be platooned against LHP.
-Whatever other arm/prospect that just won't make up the value difference between himself/Ramirez/JJ and ARod.
The only possible way I could see this happening is if Z was included in some way.
But I also agree that it would be a boon to the Cubs. And with the way Boston and the AL Central are playing, it is definatley better that they pull of this trade soon before the Yankees realize that they aren't going to make the playoffs.
by Will23 on Jul 3, 2006 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
First off, if you were Ramirez and you're putting up the numbers he is this year would you definately opt out of your contract? What is it for, something like $10-11 million? He'd probably be the best third baseman on the market come winter time but that won't garauntee him what he's making now. Especially if he got traded to the Yankees, why would he opt out? Only if he hates it there I suppose.
Second, Jones isn't platooning now and he seems to be doing pretty well, even against lefties (for him anyway). The Yankees need quality outfielders and Jones is having a quality year. With Sheffield not signed for next year Jones makes sense.
In no way can I see the Cubs including Zambrano in the deal unless it's for a lot less than him, Ramirez and Jones. In fact, I'd rather keep Z and not do the trade at all than to simply upgrade from Ramirez to Rodriguez and lose Z in the process.
by pageian on Jul 3, 2006 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ramirez..
On Jones, yes he would get plenty of playing time and may even improve with the rest of the big bats in the Yankee lineup around him. But his value with Ramirez and an arm or 2 certainly doesn't equal the value of ARod from the Yankee perspective.
But I do agree that Z should be protected. He may not be as marketable as ARod, but he is the only legitimate young star on this Cub team.
by Will23 on Jul 3, 2006 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
by pageian on Jul 3, 2006 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely Agree.
A-Rod is a phenomenal player. In a year when he is being booed he has the following stats:
.OBP .394
.OPS .916
This is an "off year"? Okay, so A-Rod is 30, probably not taking roids anymore so you can bet that he will NOT put up 3 years in a row of >1.000 .OPS again...
The downside risk to the Cubs is that A-Rod is 30 an if he was a heavy juicer then injury rate for the future is a risk, this is probably true of every 30 year old player in the league.
The Yankees only make the deal if financially they can't take A-Rod's contract anymore. There is no way a player can "live up" to that kind of contract, i.e., the dimensions of the field are fixed and you don't get extra runs for hitting HRs farther, so the Yankees know that A-Rod cannot live-up to that contract too bad their fans don't....
The only way that the Cubs do not make the deal if offered is if they have legitimate info. and concern about roid/HGH usage and thus future injuries, downward performance, the normal things that come with being 30+...
Giving up Jones and A-Ram though is nothing...Pie may be another touted Cubs "prospect" who struggles with the strike zone...Throw in marmol or marshall, who cares?
My point being that if the Cubs are fine with A-Rod's salary, and health then the Cubs cannot make this deal fast enough. The only way the deal makes sense for the Yankees is if they are totally hurting financially.
I read somewhere before the season that the colelctive agreement expires after this season and the way that teams qualify to pay luxury tax from year to year is worded in byzantine fashion...In short, if a team can get out from under the tax this season they apparently would be absolved the next season. I may not have this totally correct but there is a strong incentive, due to the CBA expiring, for teams that are currently under the cap to get out for next season and for teams that have never been under it before this season they get a pass...Plus, maybe Steinbrenner even has his limits for the amount of money that he'll throw away in total?
by DudeVf1 on Jul 4, 2006 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be for
by sue369 on Jul 3, 2006 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting
by geetarnwhiskey on Jul 3, 2006 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT???
by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry out of order
as I do , he has been really messing up in the clutch
He had a walk off homer last week but other than
that the fans have been booing him mercelesly for
a month. He is NOT worth 20 plus million a year
( see above as I would rather spend the money
elsewhere)
by jessica on Jul 2, 2006 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could be just a down year
he has been really messing up in the clutch
He had a walk off homer last week but other than
that the fans have been booing him mercelesly for
a month.
W/RISP: .300/.448/.522/.971
RISP w/2 outs: 325/.518/.550/1.068
The booing is probably due to the high expectations that people place on him. But the truth is that very few people are more "clutch" than A-Rod.
by VS on Jul 2, 2006 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
20 million +
Also, if the deal were to go down however, I would try to pry away a Jose Tabata or Joba Chamberlain from the Yankees since we could use all the prospects in the world
by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT decline?
I doubt this will happen but depending on the rest of the deal, the Cubs make this in a minute.
by rlpete on Jul 2, 2006 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ARod's Salary
by davidalanu on Jul 2, 2006 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A-Rod..
by santo for prez on Jul 2, 2006 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Rod's decline
But I don't believe the Yankees would do that. But I hope I'm wrong.
by Josh77 on Jul 2, 2006 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No it wouldn't
the season is a blip but based on those numbers
he MIGHT be the best player on the Cubs depending
on how Lee comes back but he would not be in the top
10 in most catagories of NL players. Look we all it
won't happen because the Yankees won't do it
and A-Rod would never agree. It is true that
a Sub Par a Rod year is substantially better than MOST
players but he is not in top 2 of NL and I for one
think there is a lot of upside to A-Ram who is starting
to hit now than Lee is back and is 3 years younger.
He is nowhere NEAR the fielder A-Rod is but I would
keep him. Anyway it is academic but for fun lets
keep track of the A-Rod. A Ram JJ stats for the year
Off for the day.
by jessica on Jul 2, 2006 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more...
by riggs on Jul 4, 2006 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overrated?
by Chad on Jul 4, 2006 2:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm....
by riggs on Jul 4, 2006 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Helton
ARod is the BEST IN THE GAME. The B E S T player in baseball the only argument I will listen to is Albert Puljos.
by Chad on Jul 4, 2006 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overrated???????
By any measure he is one of the greatest players to ever play the game, plus he plays the position that is the third worst offensive position in basbeall, i.e., across the vast spectrum of MLB seasons the SS position is the third worst for offesnive production. He's like having the run production of a hall of fame first baseman at SS and he is outstanding defensively.
No player can live up to a contract of the magnitude of A-Rod, but this is an economic phenomenon not a baseball production problem with A-Rod.
When teams bid for players there is an incentive for teams with resources to "over-pay" for that player who makes the difference for them. Diminishing returns is all that it is...The Yankess have been able to afford such for a while, maybe they can't anymore?
You have to have mucho big financial resources to absorb A-Rod's salary and not have it impair the remainder of your roster. If the Cubs are fine with this then you do it, but it would be foolish if we did it and then fielded the same AAA team as this season just to keep the budget under $95 million.
by DudeVf1 on Jul 4, 2006 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, you're a big liar....
WHAT ABOUT NEIFI?!?!?!?!?!?!?! He saved the Cubs last year, remember?!?!?!?!?
by colossus on Jul 2, 2006 5:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
IF, this were to happen the Cubs would without question need two high OBP guys to bat 1,2 ahead of D-Lee and A-Rod. And Neifi would have to be DFA so Dusty isn't tempted.
Still will need some pop out of the outfield though. Definitely an interesting trade.
by BringBackRyno on Jul 2, 2006 5:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hate rumors like this
by amaru on Jul 2, 2006 5:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah no kidding...
Remember that Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee deal?
Fell through.
Remember that three-way trade that messed with everybody where we were to send Alex Gonzalez to the Expos, the Expos were going to send Orlando Cabrera to the Red Sox, and we were going to get Nomar Garciaparra?
I really thought that one would happen. Never did.
And sheesh, remember that deal in 2003 that was supposed to happen where we were to send JUNK for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton?
I mean, man, if that would have happened, we might have gone to the playoffs that year.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
Lee was far from being one of the biggest stars in MLB and a lot of Cub fans thought he was to expensive.
And sheesh, remember that deal in 2003 that was supposed to happen where we were to send JUNK for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton?
That was a move by the Pirate to cut down payroll.
Garciaparra I'll give you, though the Red Sox weren' to to sad to see him go considering he had been getting hurt frequently.
by VS on Jul 2, 2006 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big deals are big deals...
A-Rod, from the way he's being treated and the way the club views him in comparison with golden boy Derek Jeter, the situation is looking very similar to what happened to Nomar in Boston.
If the Yankees decide to deal A-Rod to anybody, it will be for similar reasons that Nomar got dealt.
And the reasons you explain why the deals happened are irrelevant. So what if the Pirates were looking to cut payroll? The reason why is irrelevant.
It is still a big deal regardless if a team is simply looking to get rid of a player.
By your reasoning, A-Rod wouldn't be a huge deal if the Yankees were simply looking to cut payroll.
Nonsense.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
please
by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
"He's a 30-plus home run guy and we think there's even more there," Hendry said. "He's kind of blossomed into stardom. He's the best fielding first baseman in the league. He's a tremendous makeup guy."
Here's more:
"We think Derrek Lee is capable of even bigger numbers. Here's a guy 28 years old and just growing into his peak years."
Just because YOU didn't see it coming didn't mean nobody else did.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
please
by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does any GM get everything right?
Same with Hendry.
You need to be introduced to how humanity works my friend. Hendry is not an idiot. He has made good decisions in the past, he has made more bad decisions in the present. I know it is more comfortable for you to paint someone you have grown to dislike with a brush that says every good decision is a fluke, while every bad decision is the truth, but it just doesn't work that way.
Hendry predicted great things for Lee. He was right. In regards to a number of other things he has been wrong.
You can't be this obtuse about how people work and think. Not everybody is right all the time nor wrong all the time.
People are both smart and stupid and with baffling irregularity.
I think as an adult who has mastered at least the basics of posting on a message board you would have a bit more perspective and wisdom on how human nature is and how intelligence works.
Human being aren't computers, they aren't consistent, and even the best of them fail more than they succeed.
You see that everywhere. In the arts, in politics, in business, and I'm shocked you haven't figured it out.
So allow me to be the first to say, "welcome to the Human race."
Hendry was right about Lee. You didn't see it. Get over it.
And he's not my boy either. How insecure you must be in your own opinions to label someone who disagrees with you as a Hendry boy. I'm not. I wish he hadn't gotten extended and I think he should be let go.
BUT, I am rooting for him to turn it around, and I'm not going to discount every single good decision he has made.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about reading my post next time...
No.
Did I say Hendry was a good GM?
No.
Did I say he should be let go?
Yes.
All I said was that he was right about Lee, and he has made good moves in the past. His recent moves or, more truthfully, his recent non-moves, have hurt this team and are grounds for his dismissal, which I would support if it were to happen.
Since he's been extended, it's not going to happen.
So, I root for him to return to his days of better moves. It's better than crying and grousing and spewing vitrol, which doesn't help and is borne purely of ego.
And once again you boggle the imagination with your lack of understanding why deals are made.
So. I will make it as clear as I can.
TEAMS
DO
NOT
TRADE
MARQUEE
PLAYERS
EXCEPT
FOR
THE
REASONS
YOU
STATED
Chemistry and salary dumps. These are the reasons good players are traded.
Boston would have NEVER traded Nomar to ANYBODY had he not fallen out of favor with the team.
Pittsburgh WANTED to keep Aramis Ramirez, but they couldn't afford him.
Alex Rodriguez was traded the FIRST TIME because of CHEMISTRY and SALARY. Was that not a huge deal for the Yankees at the time? Have you spoken to any Red Sox fans about how they think about that deal? They were supposed to get him and they messed it up.
No team trades a great player unless they are put into a position where they feel they have to. No matter what great player we could trade for, the reasons that team would trade would fall into one of those two categories.
According to your logic, there have been no big trades in the history of baseball that any GM could take credit for.
And it doesn't take someone in an ivory tower to see that.
Good grief, no GM could win by your goofy rules.
Oh, except the ones that, for whatever reason, you decide you like.
Credit Hendry for beating the other teams out who were looking to add the players we ended up adding.
More than one team was after Derrek Lee. More than one would have liked to have added Nomar. And as the A-Rod saga proved, more than one was after him.
It may blow your mind to realize that you can credit a GM for good moves in the past but still support his removal in the present.
Try removing the anger and hatred and you might find your brain works better.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
derrek lee
by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was still traded for one of those reasons...
But when a marquee player is dealt it is for one of those two reasons.
You're reaching to find something to criticize in my post, and, having nothing, you try splitting hairs.
Derrek Lee was a very good first baseman when he was dealt for, he has since become one of the very best, and we gave up absolutely NADA for him.
Regardless of what you think, that trade is one of the absolute BEST the Cubs have made in recent memory. Lee is a fantastic player and a great person.
And you can thank Jim Hendry that he is here, and will be, for many years to come.
Blast Hendry all you want for his mistakes, and he has made plenty, but the Derrek Lee deal he got right. It has turned out to be a huge right, and will be one of the big reasons we turn this team around next year.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bravo!
by teacher tom on Jul 2, 2006 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
either way
by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to summarize
You say that is the only way marquee players get moved.
I say Ramirez and Lee were not marqee players at that time.
You say that is splitting hairs.
On a completely related topic, Carlos Lee was traded for Pods to change the make up of both involved teams, there was probably some cash difference involved, but the trade was to benefit two teams with different needs. Sosa was traded because he sucked, although the propaganda machine did give us the clubhouse cancer story. Of course, Stone made several comments that described those as some of Sosa's weaker offenses over the years. I would consider those marquee guys.
Bottom line, Hendry's last good trade was a while ago, we'll see what he does this offseason with little to no trade bait.
by mike bornemann on Jul 3, 2006 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no question
by davidalanu on Jul 2, 2006 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i said hendry
by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again...how else do big deals happen?
If teams weren't bent over a barrel, then NO GOOD PLAYERS WOULD EVER BE TRADED.
The Rangers were bent over a barrel when they were trying to get out of the stifling A-Rod contract. That's how he was eventually traded.
Same with Ramirez. Same with Lee. Same with Nomar.
Any big deal involving very good players has the party trading them in some sort of bind, either in terms of chemistry, or in terms of finances.
The credit to Hendry and to Minaya and to Cashman and others who make these deals is that they offer what the selling team wants (or hoodwinks them), and they beat out all other competitors.
I don't know why you don't just give up and admit that you're wrong about this one.
Here's the thing: you can say that Hendry has made good deals in the past but has blown whatever currency he had with fans with his mistakes the past two years and therefore should be let go, and I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU.
But no, you stubbornly stick to a fallacious argument, split hairs and whine and fuss, all in an attempt to make it look like Hendry has never made any good moves, and has lucked into everything, which, sorry to say, he hasn't.
Please, you're embarrassing yourself. Admit he's made good moves in the past, but that he stinks now, I'll agree with you, and we'll move on.
by felixfelicis on Jul 3, 2006 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
R E A D I N G
by mike bornemann on Jul 3, 2006 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not inflammatory
by davidalanu on Jul 3, 2006 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
by mike bornemann on Jul 3, 2006 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because you're upset over the past year and a half
by davidalanu on Jul 3, 2006 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nope
by mike bornemann on Jul 3, 2006 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I meant
You infact do make a good point, all those deals did pay big dividens. give credit to hendry for seeing moves that payed off big. But NOBODY saw the increase in production by Lee coming, at not as least aas much as it was. And as for Nomar, Ramirez, and Lofton it made sense for those teams to trade those players, given the timing in the season, for whatever reason(rebuilding, cut payroll, etc...)
But the Cubs have never made that yankeesque type move for a sheffield or arod or damon, or Randy Johnson. That's what I meant by big deals.
by amaru on Jul 2, 2006 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even still...
Why is everybody getting hung up on the reasons?
Teams don't move MARQUEE PLAYERS unless they need to cut payroll, or a player falls out of favor.
What reason would suffice for everybody so we can give somebody a little credit for getting them?
Should the Yankees just hand us A-Rod because they like us and want us to get better? What reason would qualify so that everybody here would agree that we make a big deal when it happens?
If the Yankees decide to deal us A-Rod, it will be because they are looking to cut some payroll down, and that A-Rod has fallen too far out of favor. It will be the Pirates's reason for dealing Aramis to us, and the Red Sox reason for dealing us Nomar rolled into one.
And by the reasoning of everybody here, it won't be a big deal.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you didn't read what I wrote
I gave credit to Hendry for having good judgement and having the ability to pull the trigger on deals.
What I'm saying is that the Cubs haven't sealed a deal for a MARQUEE PLAYER in a long time.
And like you said, Nomar was a huge MARQUEE "NAME" but he wasn't a MARQUEE "PLAYER" at the time of the trade.
by amaru on Jul 2, 2006 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong.
This is wrong or useless. You are saying (repeatedly) that teams don't trade marquee players to improve the team?
1.) so what?
2.) richie sexson.
if the yankees are looking to deal a-rod it would be to improve the OF and their pitching.
by jacob on Jul 10, 2006 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay...
Credit the GM who receives this player for beating out all other offers, which is no small task.
Just because the deal made sense on the other side doesn't make it any less of an accomplishment for the GM that gets the player in question.
It's not as though GMs are out there fooling other teams to trade their best players for opera tickets.
by felixfelicis on Jul 3, 2006 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arod has a no trade clause
In terms of Scott Williamson's inteview, I'm disappointed, what happens in the clubhouse should stay in the clubhouse. If he wanted to call out Dusty, though Dusty deserves it, it should be handled in-house. Maybe if it was Derrek Lee or Zambrano or Maddux, I wouldn't mind as much. Hendry took a chance on him, he owes Hendry some respect.
But, it doesn't surprise me, we see it in all sports, when teams are losing, people beginning to talk. I just want Hendry to get a handle on this team.
Al, any sense if their is mutiny, besides Williamson in the clubhouse?
by Grnwithivy on Jul 2, 2006 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
by jessica on Jul 2, 2006 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You sure?
Also, think of the marketing side--I'm not from NYC, but I get the idea that its a Jeter town, as far as advertising success. A-Rod could make some money here, I get the feeling that his face would be everywhere.
by TC Cubby on Jul 3, 2006 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Players waive for money...
by DudeVf1 on Jul 4, 2006 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to see it
by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jul 2, 2006 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next years lineup...
Cedeno, 2B
D. Lee 1B
Rodriguez SS
Cabrera 3B
C. Lee, LF
Barrett, C
Pie RF
Zito P
Hey... a guy can dream, can't he?
by bergs55 on Jul 2, 2006 6:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why in god's name would you put Hunter...
If you're gonna dream, do it right.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure is a Dream
by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jul 2, 2006 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It makes sense
by tharr on Jul 2, 2006 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Howry's save
You've got the save rule wrong, Al. There's a 3-run clause -- here's the text from the scoring page of the rulebook on mlb.com (http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp):
10.20
Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions:
(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and
(2) He is not the winning pitcher; and
(3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions:
(a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or
(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or
(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.
by gharp on Jul 2, 2006 6:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the clarification...
by Al on Jul 3, 2006 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its quite clear
by Frustrated Fan on Jul 3, 2006 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ambiguous...
Eh, the win+save rules are pretty strange. It always irks me when a reliever blows a save then gets a win because his team comes from behind for him (something I remember Billy Koch did to the A's at least 5 times on his way to the Rolaids Reliever of the Year Award in 2002).
It's also frustrating when a pitcher is very effective for 4+ innings but comes out early for some reason (injury, rain delay, etc), then can't get the win because he didn't go 5 so they give it to some random reliever.
by gharp on Jul 3, 2006 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Money issues
by fuzzycubfan on Jul 2, 2006 6:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As I asked earlier
by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 yrs 64 million?
16 million per is fine for a player of A-Rod's caliber.
Take away Aramis's 11 million and Jacque's 4 million and A-Rod is essentially paid for.
And with the new revenue and the money we'll save from Maddux and Wood being gone we'll have enough to get more pitching and add Carlos Lee.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I finally found it
Offseason pickups: The Cubs could conceivably still go after Carlos Lee if they have any intentions of doing so even with picking up A-Rod. Personally, I happen to agree with mlbtraderumors.com's analysis of the Cubs going after players like Cliff Floyd and Preston Wilson. Wilson b/c the combo of high K's - low obp - Hendry hoping for a return to better days in CO and Floyd b/c it's been rumored before and Floyd and Hendry go all the way back to Hendry's days at Creighton. Also, Aubrey Huff would be the one to come in and play 3rd if A-rod moved to short and Ronny to 2nd, unless we made a trade with the Dodgers and got the man a lot of people here seem to want, Cesar Izturis.
by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i predict
by tomas21 on Jul 3, 2006 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see....
Which I don't think is going to happen anyway.
by Al on Jul 3, 2006 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luxury Tax
by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching around Uribe
by tharr on Jul 2, 2006 6:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Scott Williamson
Scott, don't let the door hit you in your sorry ass on the way out.
by Clark Addison on Jul 2, 2006 7:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah right
by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jul 2, 2006 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What did Williamson say?
by Cubby4life3 on Jul 2, 2006 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All Star Teams
by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 7:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Angel Guzman?
by Grnwithivy on Jul 2, 2006 7:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna be short and sweet
by Josh77 on Jul 2, 2006 7:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i seriously hope this happens
pierre
cedeno
lee
a-rod
lee
barrett
huff
murton
i dont know, looks sweet to me. i still have this great hope that the cubs could get andruw jones though even though im sure there have probably not even been any inkling of talks or interest.....i mean i am sure we could match a brian anderson type with some pitching prospects
by geetarnwhiskey on Jul 2, 2006 7:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A-ram for A-rod
Try throwing in a second tier pitching prospect. Maybe the Yankees still believe all they hype about the arms in our system.
by Clark Addison on Jul 2, 2006 7:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The problem is
The switch to the NL from the AL may have helped Jones, since it's considered easier to go from the AL to the NL than vice versa. Just imagine what someone like ARod would be able to do if that's true.
My point is, don't get hung up on Jones just because he's having a good half-year. Lot's of GM's before have fallen in love with this kind of player only to be looking for work shortly after.
by pageian on Jul 2, 2006 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
David Justice ripped ARod
I suspect that the rumor, if it's true, is probably just Yankee propoganda to put a little fear into ARod, but who knows. They really do have issues with the payroll/luxury tax so it's possible they want to move him. It's possible.
by pageian on Jul 2, 2006 8:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And the Next Day
by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at it from A-Rod's Point of View
Second, as a Yankee, he has a much better chance of getting at least one ring.
Third, his non-salary earnings will be higher as a Yankee. Going to the Cubs may or may not be a major hit in this department. After all, Chicago isn't St. Pete/Tampa or Milwaukee.
Fourth, regardless of what people say about him, I doubt that he wants to be perceived as a "quitter" for leaving NY.
Fifth, he will be expected to be an Instant Messiah in Chicago. He does not seem comfortable in that role.
There are probably another 5-6 reasons that I could come up with if I put some more time into this.
by The Luis Salazar Experience on Jul 2, 2006 8:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
New York is different
When you have a chance to get a rare talent like ARod, you do it. If the Yankees offer is reasonable I can't see any reason for the Cubs to say no.
As for ARod saying no, that's another story. He probably wouldn't want to leave the Yankees but you never know, maybe he's tired of all the crap that goes with being in (Yankee) pinstripes. I don't know about his no trade clause, but he was traded once so he is moveable. Would he approve going to the Cubs? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know if we don't ask, and if you think there is a chance you have to ask.
by pageian on Jul 2, 2006 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Also, if this deal did happen, what do you think the possibilities are of Baker being let go in favor of someone new (e.g. Lou Pinella)?
by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one has nothing to do with the other...
Within a month of his hiring, if it happened, all of you who hate Baker would be bitching about why Piniella doesn't play the kids, why his lineups suck, and how poorly he handles the pitching staff.
Oh, but he can throw a mean tantrum.
This team doesn't need tantrums.
I'll say it again: IF Baker is not retained, the best choice for the next manager would be Joey Cora.
by Al on Jul 3, 2006 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cora
by FrankSereno on Jul 3, 2006 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cora...
And perhaps most importantly, he speaks Spanish. This cannot be underrated in an era when 1/3 or more of rosters are native Spanish speakers.
The White Sox credit Jose Contreras' revival to the fact that his manager and one key coach could communicate with him in his native language.
Spanish-speaking players come here from another culture and many times have a hard time adapting. Having the guy in charge be someone who understands that culture and can communicate directly with him -- I don't think that's a small issue at all.
Finally, the last two Cub manager hires have been "big names" -- Baylor and Baker. Having seen teams succeed, or be on the way there, with names like Scioscia, Yost and Guillen, people with no previous managerial experience, perhaps this is the way to go.
by Al on Jul 3, 2006 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah culture
by Chad on Jul 3, 2006 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now Ozzie
by sue369 on Jul 3, 2006 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you blame them.....
by timeforachange on Jul 3, 2006 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just really
by sue369 on Jul 3, 2006 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dusty Baker speaks Spanish
by DSZ on Jul 3, 2006 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Dusty Baker speaks Spanish...
There's a big difference, and I think having someone who qualifies under both of those conditions, would make a difference in how the Hispanic players would play for such a manager.
by Al on Jul 4, 2006 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cora manager
you think he would jump at it
or hesitate ??
by quarryfan on Jul 3, 2006 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any major league coach...
And no team would prevent such a coach from taking such an offer.
by Al on Jul 4, 2006 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Argh!
by FrankSereno on Jul 4, 2006 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a ?
I agree with you all on the whole Joey Cora side of things to a point. I think the next manager needs to be someone who is very fluent in Spanish and can communicate with players in their native tongue. From history though, I would like to see a manager come from the Atlanta Braves organization since their track record tends to be a very good one.
by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 3, 2006 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think..
You mention the Braves organization; Fredi Gonzalez, another native Spanish speaker (born in Cuba), the Atlanta 3B coach, would be my next choice after Cora.
Gonzalez, in fact, was interviewed by Hendry at the time Dusty Baker was hired.
by Al on Jul 4, 2006 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick rebuttal
- A-Rod has no worry about not making the Hall of Fame. He could retire tomorrow and he probably makes the Hall. He could play the rest of his career for the Kansas Fracking City Royals and make Cooperstown. This is not an issue.
- His chances of getting a ring with the Yankees would seem to be greater. But as they say in the investment world--past performance is no guarantee of future results. And also, why did he sign with the Rangers again? To have the best chance of winning a ring?
- Endorsement income really shouldn't be an issue for someone making 25 million a year. And as you say, he'd do fine as a Cub in this area.
- You're probably right on the "quitter" label. He'd get that and he wouldn't like it. On the other hand, if he won a ring in Chicago, he wouldn't care and no one else would either.
- Dunno about the "messiah" thing. He does seem to like being the center of attention. What he doesn't seem to like is when he hits .321 with 48 HR and 130 RBI like he did last year and it doesn't seem to be good enough. Would Cub fans blame him if he put up those numbers and we didn't win the World Series?
But I still don't think the Yankees are dumb enough to trade him, and certainly not for Ramirez and Jones.
by Josh77 on Jul 2, 2006 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a way it could happen...
To get to the postseason this year, the Yankees need A-Rod, they know that.
However, if the Yankees, seeing that right now they are 4.5 games back in their own division and 6.5 back in the Wild Card, fail to make the postseason, and A-Rod's end of year numbers closely mirror his 2004 performance (.286-36-106), you better believe they might look to see him moved once the offseason rolls around.
And the Yankees do need to cut their payroll. From revenue sharing to a luxury tax bill that will probably be close to 30 million this year, they are running at a loss, and they can't do that forever.
They need pitching in a bad way, and they have a ton of bad contracts they need to shed.
Getting Ramirez and Jones would be a great way to fill two positions for the price of A-Rod, not to mention the money saved from Jones replacing Sheffield.
Of course, they will look to add another bat, and my guess is it would be bringing back Alfonso Soriano to play a little of everywhere.
And with some decent free agent pitching on the market (Pettitte, Schmidt, Mulder, Zito), you better believe they will want to scoop at least one of those guys up while still lowering their payroll.
Personally, I don't think the Yankees are going to go to the postseason. I think Detroit and Chicago will duke it out for the NL Central with the loser taking the Wild Card, while the Red Sox, with their very strong overall team pull away from the Yankees, who I just don't think have enough anymore with Matsui and Sheffield on the shelf until September at the earliest.
Even if the Yankees squeak by, say, the Tigers, and get in as the WC, the White Sox or Red Sox should make short work of them. Especially with Sheffield and Matsui coming back from similar injuries to what Derrek Lee had.
And when this 200M payroll fails to make the postseason, you better believe heads will roll. Not only will the Yankees be a laughing stock, they will prove the theory that you really can't buy championships over the long haul. Every year the Yankee payroll goes up, every year they seem to get a little further away from their goal.
2003 they got to the World Series and lose.
2004 they were beat by the Red Sox in the ALCS.
2005 they didn't get out of the first round.
2006 they miss the postseason.
If and when this scenario occurs I think the Yankees will be very receptive to a Jones-Ramirez for A-Rod trade.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Would that cause a meltdown in NY? It depends on whether or not Cashman can talk some sense into Steinbrenner. The Yankees season was lost with the injuries to Matsui and Sheffield and the collapse of their pitching staff. A sane man would realize that none of this has anything to do with A-Rod and if you were going to trade him, you'd better get Johann Santana from the Twins, except that the Twins can't make that trade financially--nor could the Marlins for Cabrera and Willis.
The only question then becomes: Do the Yankees succumb to the Madness of King George? Because that's the only real way they are going to trade A-Rod because no trade of him could possibly make the Yankees a better team.
by Josh77 on Jul 3, 2006 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Appreciate the Well-Reasoned Rebuttal...
"His chances of getting a ring with the Yankees would seem to be greater. But as they say in the investment world--past performance is no guarantee of future results. And also, why did he sign with the Rangers again? To have the best chance of winning a ring?"
The Yankees have won 26 WS since the Cubs last won a championship. Be honest, do you REALLY think that the Cubs will win one before the Yankees get #27? I think it's more likely that they will win another 26 before that happens.
That said, MLB will probably have to go to some sort of cap or revenue-sharing within the next ten years. This could have been avoided by some sort of television revenue-sharing system back during the last strike. However, with no leadership/central authority at the helm, the large market teams continued their short-sighted strategy.
Frankly, MLB deserves all the problems that it has, and then some. When MLB does do something, it waits until a major crisis (or perceived major crisis) arises, then it overreacts. Look at the All-Star game. After 60+ years, we have a tie. What does MLB do? It throws the baby out with the bath water. This may not be the best example, but it is on my mind today.
Sorry for the rambling. I am just disgusted today on a lot of levels. 1) Every game that I want to see today is blacked out, despite the fact that I live about four hours drive from the nearest MLB venue. 2) I am sick (and tired) of people @#$%ing about the All-Star selections already. 3) I am tired of seeing marginal players swing for the fences on every at bat. 4) I am tired of a Commissioner that is not only an owner, but the weakest owner. 5) I am tired of a system that bans Jackson and Rose for life, while trying to force-feed Bonds down my throat for passing Ruth. 6) I am tired of teams making the same bone-headed mistakes over and over again, like drafting HS pitchers.
The Cubs are a microcosm for all that is wrong with baseball. They are not alone; they are just the team that we follow.
by The Luis Salazar Experience on Jul 3, 2006 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
What a great game today!
I just want the trade deadline to come a little quicker. I am so anxious to see what's going to happen around both leagues.
by coopergillan on Jul 2, 2006 8:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
plus
by geetarnwhiskey on Jul 2, 2006 8:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Big Picture
Don't you see something wrong with that quote. The Cubs rely on star power to sell tickets. don't kid yourselves, if this rumor comes to fruition it doesn't mean things are going to change for the better. It's just another chance to keep riding big ticket and product sales on the back of another superstar.
by cubfan4life on Jul 2, 2006 8:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
not exactly
by geetarnwhiskey on Jul 2, 2006 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ARod just came up big....
hopefully the mets come back and then arod chokes in the bottom of the ninth. that would make the new yorkers hate him again, ha.
by coopergillan on Jul 2, 2006 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Add another 3 run HR..
by Will23 on Jul 2, 2006 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problems is the trade works
This opens 3B, and the Cubs do have the stable to go after the true star in Cabrera. They could live with Pagan in RF (if they trade the mortgage for Cabrera). Next year they could even put Pitt's Wilson in LF if Lee and Soriano are too expensive.
The money is there, the question is whether it all can be worked out.
by Ivy Walls on Jul 2, 2006 9:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The good news is...
But I will say that if we did land A-Rod and he moved back to shortstop, which he should, 3rd base once more becomes a swirling vortex of doom.
The free agent market for third base is flat out awful.
Honestly I'd rather keep A-Rod at third, keep Cedeno at shortstop, and look to bring in someone like Luis Castillo for second base (if the Twins decline his 6M option, which they probably will).
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They may have the money..
by santo for prez on Jul 3, 2006 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Note of reality: Marlins avg'g 1/2 last year
There is little point to keep them under these finances, the idea is get a stable of players without arbitration/FA pending.
by Ivy Walls on Jul 3, 2006 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
by cubfan4life on Jul 3, 2006 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arod just hit a three run homer
by Cubby4life3 on Jul 2, 2006 10:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
my goodness...
here's hoping he chokes in the stretch or the postseason.
by coopergillan on Jul 2, 2006 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thoughts on A-Rod
If the Cubs do trade for him, Hendry better have a damn good idea of what he's going to do after he gets here. If you get A-Rod, you have to build a contender for next year. With the current makeup of this club, that's going to take a lot of work.
by JDay on Jul 2, 2006 11:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Honestly...the A-Rod talk is exciting...
A starting pitcher or two, Carlos Lee, and we'll be much much better.
by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like
Translation: You were full of BS during your defense of Baker and his job performance this season.
by Matt Allison on Jul 3, 2006 2:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clutch Hitting
http://sportszilla.blogspot.com/2006/06/derek-and-alexs-mythical-journey.html
by Tarzan Joe on Jul 3, 2006 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Clutch" hitting
This site has a ton of articles that argue both sides. FWIF, Bill James concludes that there is no such thing as clutch hitting.
I tend to agree.
by gravedigger on Jul 3, 2006 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by pageian on Jul 3, 2006 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
more thoughts....
The embarrassment on national tv was an alarm. Cubs did play with enthusiasm on Sunday but they need an old fashioned shake up.
A-Rod would be that kind of skakeup. Leaving 3B open is tactical problem and if not Cabrera maybe Barrett or maybe go with Cedeno at 3B and bring up Patterson but do something.
LF is also a problem, whether it is a platoon of Pie and Murton for now. Finally Pierre, dump him. Play Pagan.
by Ivy Walls on Jul 3, 2006 10:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Place holder at third with ARam gone?
by TR on Jul 3, 2006 12:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Please tell me
by pageian on Jul 3, 2006 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Yankee fan
The Yankees offense has scuffled with the bottom of the lineup of Phillips, Cairo, and Melky Cabrera (aside of last night). Arod is starting to heatup, and he is an integral part of the offense. I just don't see Aramis putting up numbers like A-Rod will (though he would put up good numbers).
by nyynjnnyg on Jul 3, 2006 1:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A-Rod in The Windy City
That would be a fascinating
deal..I know Chicago is A-Rods
favorite road city. He's a
Harry Caray's restaurant regular.
Even if this one doesn't get off
the ground I know a big trade will
happen before the deadline.
by quarryfan on Jul 3, 2006 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Garbage....
I'm ready to see the team shaken up a little, but many of you might disagree with me about some players we should keep (Pierre is finally playing well and I think we should keep him....there, I said it). I also like Jones, I really do. He just took some time to adjust and the season was lost anyway so he's having time to really come into his own as a Cub.
I like the idea of getting CLee, ARod and Zito, with maybe Soriano thrown in. That will only cost us a couple bucks, right?
by coopergillan on Jul 3, 2006 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i know soriano wants to go back to the al
by geetarnwhiskey on Jul 3, 2006 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randa?
by airweino on Jul 3, 2006 2:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this rumor didn't come from
by tomas21 on Jul 3, 2006 2:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Rumor growing legs
I wonder how far this will go. It would be cool to see it blow up. I can see A-Rod on the cover of the Red Eye now!
by northofwrigley on Jul 3, 2006 3:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
NOT GROWING LEGS...
by Chad on Jul 3, 2006 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
by northofwrigley on Jul 3, 2006 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe...
I'll repeat this: the source from which I got this information is someone I trust completely, who's not going to give me BS info just to make a splash, and who understands that the Cubs DO need to do something LIKE this to send a message that they intend to become competitive.
If it's not this deal, I'd expect them to make SOME sort of major deal by July 31.
by Al on Jul 3, 2006 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then...
by Chad on Jul 3, 2006 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your source
by FauxChuck on Jul 3, 2006 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just hope
by tomas21 on Jul 4, 2006 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pull off the trade...
by DTJchris on Jul 3, 2006 3:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Aramis is traded
by cubsfan2883 on Jul 3, 2006 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI
by Peoria Matt on Jul 3, 2006 9:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And that means Bruce isn't in charge of deals.
Isn't NSBB the home of the Ben Grieve fan club?
by cubswin on Jul 4, 2006 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anything the A-Rod trade rumor...
by DudeVf1 on Jul 4, 2006 12:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Stupidity but I like the deal
These are the prospects we should not trade:
Felix Pie OF- 5 tool left handed player who could hit 1st or 3rd. Projections: 35-40 HRs .300 BA 30 SB. Would Replace: Jaque Jones
Brian Dopriak 1B- D-Lee's successor. in 2 years he will be our 1st baseman. Projections: 30 HR .300 BA person. Would Replace: Derrek Lee
Sean Marshall P- Lefty with great stuff. Nuff Said. Projections: 3.00- 4.00 ERA 150- 250 Ks. Would Replace: already owns a spot on the MLB roster
Juan Mateo P- Considering how Wood and Prior preform we'll need as many starters as we can get and he is a good smart pitcher with great stuff. Projections: 3.00- 3.75 ERA 200- 250 Ks. Would replace: Greg Maddux
Carlos Marmol P- He has already shown he is a good pitcher. Projections: 3.00- 3.60 ERA 200- 250 Ks. Would Replace: Mark Prior
Ryan Harvey OF - Power hitter who can hit for average our possible left fielder if we make this deal. Projections: 35- 50 HRs .300 BA. Would Replace: either MAtt Murton or Angel Pagan
Ryan Theriot 2B- A hitter he will hit for high average and play a good D. Projections: .300 BA 2- 12 HRs. Would Replace: ?
1 Last Year
Rich Hill P- He has great stuff and can control the minors but hasn't shown he can pitch in the majors until now. Projections: (if he keeps it up) 2.50- 3.50 ERA 100- 200 Ks. Would Replace: Kerry Wood
Make the Deal just don't trade these guys.
by number1cubfan on Aug 15, 2006 2:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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