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Scoop!

I'll write a few notes on today's highly entertaining 15-11 Cub win over the White Sox in a moment.

First, I want to tell you of a trade rumor I heard today, and you're going to dismiss it, but I heard this from a source I trust, and it makes sense on a number of different levels.

The Cubs are reportedly "in discussions" with the Yankees for a deal in which the principals would be Aramis Ramirez... and Alex Rodriguez.

Yes, that's right, A-Rod could become a Cub.

Don't laugh. It does make sense; apparently the Yankees are maxed out enough on their payroll and luxury tax that they are looking to cut; they seem somewhat disappointed in A-Rod's performance so far this year, which, although very good (.279/.390/.502), is below his career norms, and they apparently feel that Ramirez, once he gets to a place where he doesn't have to be the main guy (and also would have a large Dominican community to support him), would blossom.

The Cubs, of course, can well afford the remaining years on A-Rod's contract (four more years plus a buyout), and would be making two statements by acquiring him:

  1. he's acknowledged as one of the best hitters in the game;
  2. he is a marketable star, something the Cubs have lacked since Sammy Sosa left.
Many people, including here on this site, have said that even in down years, the Cubs always had someone who was worth coming out to the park and seeing, whether it was Ryne Sandberg or Andre Dawson or Sosa, over the last 20 or so years. They don't have that player now. A-Rod would be such a player.

This deal, if it happens, might also include Jacque Jones, and other lesser players including prospects on both sides.

I know, I know, you think I'm out of my mind. But if this happens, remember where you heard it first.

This same source told me that the White Sox are "close" to acquiring Andruw Jones from the Braves; the price would be Brian Anderson and young pitching. That deal would also make sense for both sides.

If the A-Rod to the Cubs deal happens, also expect Todd Walker to be moved (maybe to the Tigers), and at that point A-Rod moves back to SS, Ronny Cedeno to 2B, and the Cubs get a placeholder 3B until they can either sign one or trade for one in the offseason.

There! That's some food for thought for you, while you digest today's win. How this team scored 15 runs, I'll never know, especially with the lineup they fielded today. Angel Pagan, who has just about as bad an arm in RF as Jones, hit his first two major league homers today, both off Cliff Politte (some of the Sox fans around us today can't figure out why he was activated from the DL, since he seems as if he might still be hurt). Neifi also homered -- off Mark Buehrle. Carlos Zambrano homered off Buehrle. Neifi hit a two-run double off Buehrle.

Are you getting the idea that Buehrle had nothing today? He gave up ten earned runs, and it's not often that a starting pitcher is left in to take a beating like that (although the Sox gave such a beating to the Cardinals just last week, with Jason Marquis giving up thirteen earned runs).

Incidentally, that was Z's third HR of the season, at the halfway point. The last Cub pitcher to have as many or more in a single year was Fergie Jenkins, who had six in 1971, his Cy Young year, when he also won 24 games, and had 20 RBI to boot. Since Z hit his HR righthanded off the LH-hitting Buehrle, we were hoping he'd get an at-bat against a RHP reliever, so he'd have a shot at switch-hitting HR in a game, something no pitcher has ever done.

It was that kind of day. It rained hard before the game started for about half an hour, but cleared out and just sprinkled briefly during the game. Jesus The Nice Sox Fan, who I have sat next to at the Cubs/Sox games at the Cell the last couple of years, showed up and sat in front of us today, along with a couple of Cub fan friends of his, one of whom wore a 2004 Zambrano All-Star jersey from Houston's game that year.

The Sox made it interesting a couple of times, even after the seven-run Cub first; Juan Uribe, who had a fabulous series, hit a three-run HR in the 5th (none of us could understand this -- with two out and Buehrle due up next, why even pitch to him? Pitch AROUND him) to make it 7-5, and after Neifi's HR made it 11-5, the Sox cuffed around Scott Williamson (who, as noted in the game thread, went on local sports talk radio to slam the Cubs today, making it likely he'll be traded soon -- if anyone wants him after he sucked bigtime this afternoon), making it 11-7, and the two teams traded home runs by Joe Crede, Tadahito Iguchi, and Pagan, before Bob Howry finally finished it off with a forceout -- and 2B umpire Mike Reilly called that last out as if he had to THINK about it before he called it.

Howry was credited with a save, his second. I think this is incorrectly credited. A pitcher gets a save for one of three conditions:

a) coming in with the tying run on base, at bat or on deck;

b) pitching at least one full inning with no more than a three-run lead;

c) pitching three full innings with ANY lead.

Howry came into the game with a three-run lead and no one on base after Iguchi's HR. He registered an out on one pitch. After that the Cubs extended the lead to five runs; Howry DID pitch a full inning (plus), but doesn't seem to qualify under ANY of the above conditions. His full inning came AFTER the Cubs had made the lead more than three runs.

Anyway, it really doesn't matter since the Cubs did salvage one game out of this series (better than the Cardinals did against the White Sox!), and at least head on the road with a win over a very, very good team.

Sign seen: outside the park at Waveland and Kenmore, where the ballhawks sit during the game in folding chairs, a cardboard sign headed on top "DUMB QUESTIONS" with some tally marks; then the bottom of the sign "DUMB QUESTIONS FROM SOX FANS" with some more tally marks. The count of each seemed about equal.

Enjoy this juicy scoop I got today. It may never happen. But if it does, remember who told you.

0 recs  |  Comment 184 comments

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A-Rod?
You're right. I don't believe it.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 5:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If This Happens...
....I wouldn't expect it until after the All Star break at the earliest. Or at all, for that matter but talk about a sudden diversion from an otherwise miserable year.

by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like
an attempt by McDonough to get people to talk about something besides firing Baker.

It won't happen. On both counts.

by Matt Allison on Jul 2, 2006 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Poll
 is the best reason yet why Baker shouldn't make it past the All Star break.  More than 40% of the BCB readers have said that the problem is Hendry, not Baker.   That's just wrong.  Hendry may have erred by hiring and keeping Baker, but the fact is that Baker has grossly misused the talent.   And Hendry's talent choices are now getting messed up by Baker and Hendry is (wrongly) being accused of not doing his job.  Hendry's going to have to fire Baker to protect his job (which the immedate Dead Cat + bounce for a new manager will help to ensure).

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 2, 2006 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This...
... did not come from the marketing department. Trust me on this one.

by Al on Jul 3, 2006 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a deal that make sense...
... which means it probably won't happen. But all and all, it would be a reasonable deal.
Bring me the head of Rafael Furcal.

by Ross on Jul 2, 2006 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I too.....
have heard the ARod trade "rumors" (ESPN, NY Post).  However, the team was not the Cubs.

The Cubs would make a logical destination for ARod, BUT, the luxury tax idea that you floated Al does not hold water.

As stated earlier, Texas had agreed to pay a large portion of the remaining money.  The Yankees are on the hook for 16-17 mil per the final years of the deal.  The full dollar value of the contract does not hit the Yankees payroll because of the Texas payoff.  That portion remains on their books. If you trade ARam and Jones, the dollars cancel out.  There is no luxury tax savings.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 3, 2006 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think
...you're logic may be wrong.  The Yankees are paying ARod's full salary.  They're just getting money from Texas.  Texas doesn't cut Alex Rodriguez a check AFAIK.

by jolietconvict on Jul 3, 2006 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The.....
terms of the trade took this into account.  The Rangers were never going to be near the "luxury tax" point and wrote this into the deal.  I have looked for a link, but can not find it.  I am 100% sure on this one.....
he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 3, 2006 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Verification.....
Here you go....

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/alex-rodriguez_01.html

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 3, 2006 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

re
In the post-game conference Z said his knee was bothering after the sixth inning but Dusty still told him to go out there for one more.  Fire this jackass NOW.

Someone from the Cubs also let the cat out of the bag by saying that Z is in all-star.  Of course, the real surprise would be if he wasn't.

As for A-Rod, if the Cubs get him, awsome x100.  But I wont bother to get my hopes up.

by VS on Jul 2, 2006 5:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow...
If it really happens that would be a blockbuster. A-Rod a Cub? Al, from what you write, it actually makes a lot of sense now that you mention it. That would be pretty cool if you ask me. We need another "big star" and A-Rod certainly fits that mold. I think he hasn't played well because of the NY pressure and I'm sure he could hit a few onto Waveland...
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." - Vince Lombardi

by bergs55 on Jul 2, 2006 5:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wrigleyville may not be the Bronx
but it aint KC either. Wrigleyville isn't the happiest place on earth these days and with A-Rod making A-Rod money I can see the fans not being very patient with him.
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Jul 3, 2006 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't get me wrong...it would be wonderful...
To have Alex Rodriguez on this team matched with Derrek Lee.

But c'mon...the Yankees wouldn't make this deal during the season unless they get more than just Aramis. It would take Jacque, and pitching too boot, which we really don't have.

I just don't see the Yankees doing this kind of deal until the offseason. Right now they need A-Rod if they are going to stay in the AL East race, and even though he has struggled by his standards this year, all it will take is a hot week or two, and suddenly he's untradeable again.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 5:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The season is over...
why bother saying what we don't haveif it took A-Ram Jacque and Pie to get A-Rod and some mid-level prospects. You do IT

A-Rod is Pujols with a little bit more athletic ability. This rumor makes me happy.. but I doubt it happens or even comes close to happening. Steinbrenner will not deal his marquee player.

by cubsfan2883 on Jul 2, 2006 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not getting my hopes up.
You're right.  ARam, Jones and a pitcher. Maybe the Yankees would be content with one of Guzman, Marshall or Marmol.  They have some old horses in that rotation, and could use help next year.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 3, 2006 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd poop my pants nonstop for 3 days
If we somehow landed A-Rod. But like everyone else has said so far, I'll believe it when I see A-Rod in a different color pinstripes than what he wears now.

by grifdog on Jul 2, 2006 5:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Are you saying
that you want one? I can arrange this.

by grifdog on Jul 2, 2006 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL...
...thanks, but no.

by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damn!
I already have the picture ready and everything.

by grifdog on Jul 2, 2006 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Christmas Is Fast Approaching....
...if nothing else. I;m sure you could think of someone. And if Hendry did swing this deal, then him for sure....

by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well,
Hmmm....

Pierre CF
Cedeno, 2B
Lee 1B
Rodriguez SS
Nevin 3B
Barret, C
Murton, LF
Pie RF
Pitcher

by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

RF..
Why not Pagan in RF? Pie isn't ready yet.. Why not leave either A-Rod at 3b and keep Cedeno at SS and let Fontenot play every day?

I am thinking the deal would include Pierre.

by cubsfan2883 on Jul 2, 2006 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
Besides, no way do I want Nevin as the 3b.

by VS on Jul 2, 2006 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nevin at 3B
Then who? Cal mentioned a "caretaker", and Nevin would fit that bill. Who else is on the Cubs who would play?

by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay Then....
....Pagan in right, although I just got done reading where someone said his arm sucks. If the deal included Pierre, suddenly the Cubs are down some OFers, so why not see what Pie's got this stage of the season unless people think this will turn things around. Mind you, I'm all for Pie not coming up until at least 2007, but if Pierre did leave, who else is there?

by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am sure I am in the minority
but I would not want A Rod gift wrapped.
He is in fact in decline and would eat a huge chunk
of payroll. I am also curious as to if he and Aramis
have any no trade clause. A Rod would certainly
not leave New York of his  one free will.

I hope this is just a silly rumour. In any event
the Yankees like everyone else need pitching badly
and that is what they will trade for. This trade
makes little sense for them

by jessica on Jul 2, 2006 5:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

A-Rod in decline?
RUBBISH.

There's so much wrong with that statement I have no hope of even convincing you that the facts point entirely in the opposite direction from what you said.

A-Rod would be an ENORMOUS BOOST.

If this deal is for real, you do whatever it takes to pull it off.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A Rod is having an "off year"
It could of course be an anomoly and that is  but I am not
in the best mood to take that chance. His power is
down signicantly and he has been doing poorly in the
clutch for most of the year. The charmingly impatiant
Yankee fans are booing him somewhat ruthlessly
He is not worth 20 million a year , let alone 20 Million
a year, A-Ram and Jones ( Yes I actually think Jones
has value or at least that we have no replacement so
letting him go would be like letting Alou go )
I would rather keep A Ram and spend the money
on Carlos Lee.
I  also admit my prejudice in that I don't generally
care for self centered jackasses.
Anyway not gonna happen. Like I said the Yankees
NEED pitching. They can scroung some hitting elsewhere

by jessica on Jul 2, 2006 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it would make sense
for us to trade for a guy in decline, and owed a lot of money.  Be curious if this were to happen if it would be the last move Hendry make till next opening day.  If their reasoning is that we don't have a marketabe star and not that we really suck, then these people need to be shot.

by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that being said
with aramis' I might make this trade. Do we put how at SS, move Cedeno to 3rd and look to sign a 3b this offseason?

by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the problem I have with it...
A-Rod almost certainly goes back to shortstop unless he decides he likes 3rd base better, and I doubt that would be the case.

The free agent crop at third is a wasteland.

Edgardo Alfonzo
Rich Aurilia
Tony Batista
David Bell
Mark Bellhorn
Geoff Blum
Aaron Boone
Vinny Castilla
Jeff Cirillo
Pedro Feliz
Tony Graffanino
Wes Helms
Aubrey Huff
Joe Randa

I see that list and I want to puke.

Trade-wise we might be able to make a run at someone like Chone Figgins, who is rumored to be traded by the Angels, though his numbers this year aren't that much better than the suddenly hot Juan Pierre, who I would be inclined to keep if he continues to hit as nobody works harder than Juan Pierre.

Perhaps sign David Bell, who is a very strong defensive third baseman, or possibly try to pry away Garret Atkins from the Rockies, who is standing in the way of prospect Ian Stewart, but trading for A-Rod means we have to, in addition to finding a third bat to go with Lee-A-Rod in the middle of the order, find a third baseman who isn't going to be a black hole offensively.

Somewhere in all that moving, I bet Felix Pie is one of the pieces that we will have to trade. If the result is we have A-Rod and say Garret Atkins, would anybody complain?

I don't think I would.

 

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon!
 in the ultimate karmic move we get Castilla, who's made us pay for years...

by Matt Allison on Jul 2, 2006 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes,
that was sarcasm.

by Matt Allison on Jul 3, 2006 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The talk I heard...
... centered around getting Casey Blake (who is in the OF now but can play 3B) or Aaron Boone from the Indians.

by Al on Jul 3, 2006 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somethings....
never change.....

Al, I love your optimism.  However, the facts do not match up.  The premise behind the ARod trade is dead wrong.  It is not a salary saver by the NYY.  I question your source.

That being said, I hope a deal could be worked out.  I would love to have ARod.  I just wonder how much of this is an attempt to try to add life into this horrible season.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 3, 2006 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless...
the Yankees are able to shell off another large contract on another team.. I speculate it will be out of their pen.. Farnsworth perhaps?  The Indians need someone to pitch the 8th..

by cubsfan2883 on Jul 3, 2006 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree
It just sounds too juicy.  It doesn't make sense from the Yankee's perspective; break up a HOF left infield for:

 -A rented player in Ramirez as he likely test an otherwise weak 3B free agent market this winter.

 -An OF in JJones that will have to be platooned against LHP.

-Whatever other arm/prospect that just won't make up the value difference between himself/Ramirez/JJ and ARod.

The only possible way I could see this happening is if Z was included in some way.  

But I also agree that it would be a boon to the Cubs.  And with the way Boston and the AL Central are playing, it is definatley better that they pull of this trade soon before the Yankees realize that they aren't going to make the playoffs.

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jul 3, 2006 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree
with some of your points.

First off, if you were Ramirez and you're putting up the numbers he is this year would you definately opt out of your contract?  What is it for, something like $10-11 million?  He'd probably be the best third baseman on the market come winter time but that won't garauntee him what he's making now.  Especially if he got traded to the Yankees, why would he opt out?  Only if he hates it there I suppose.

Second, Jones isn't platooning now and he seems to be doing pretty well, even against lefties (for him anyway).  The Yankees need quality outfielders and Jones is having a quality year.  With Sheffield not signed for next year Jones makes sense.

In no way can I see the Cubs including Zambrano in the deal unless it's for a lot less than him, Ramirez and Jones.  In fact, I'd rather keep Z and not do the trade at all than to simply upgrade from Ramirez to Rodriguez and lose Z in the process.

by pageian on Jul 3, 2006 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ramirez..
..will make that decision for himself.  And in the upcoming free agent market's weakness of 3B will only reinforce his ability to command a contract equal to or greater than what he would earn with the Cubs.

On Jones, yes he would get plenty of playing time and may even improve with the rest of the big bats in the Yankee lineup around him.  But his value with Ramirez and an arm or 2 certainly doesn't equal the value of ARod from the Yankee perspective.

But I do agree that Z should be protected.  He may not be as marketable as ARod, but he is the only legitimate young star on this Cub team.  

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jul 3, 2006 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right
This doesn't make sense from the Yankees perspective.  You always hear that you should never trade one good for multiple not so good, and ARod is one of the best.... ever.  You simply don't trade his type for a Jacque.  Ramirez is good and can be great at times but he's not on the same planet as ARod.  I'd have serious issues if I were the GM trading away ARod in this type deal.  Unless the Yankees need to do it for $$ reasons or something else we don't know about (George is frustrated?) then it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

by pageian on Jul 3, 2006 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely Agree.
I would love the trade for the Cubs (A-Ram, Jones, Pie, & Pitcher) for A-Rod.  For the Yankees it does not make sense unless they have some other trade partner who values one of the Cubs "propsects"?  

A-Rod is a phenomenal player.  In a year when he is being booed he has the following stats:

.OBP .394
.OPS .916

This is an "off year"?   Okay, so A-Rod is 30, probably not taking roids anymore so you can bet that he will NOT put up 3 years in a row of >1.000 .OPS again...

The downside risk to the Cubs is that A-Rod is 30 an if he was a heavy juicer then injury rate for the future is a risk, this is probably true of every 30 year old player in the league.

The Yankees only make the deal if financially they can't take A-Rod's contract anymore.  There is no way a player can "live up" to that kind of contract, i.e., the dimensions of the field are fixed and you don't get extra runs for hitting HRs farther, so the Yankees know that A-Rod cannot live-up to that contract too bad their fans don't....

The only way that the Cubs do not make the deal if offered is if they have legitimate info. and concern about roid/HGH usage and thus future injuries, downward performance, the normal things that come with being 30+...

Giving up Jones and A-Ram though is nothing...Pie may be another touted Cubs "prospect" who struggles with the strike zone...Throw in marmol or marshall, who cares?

My point being that if the Cubs are fine with A-Rod's salary, and health then the Cubs cannot make this deal fast enough.  The only way the deal makes sense for the Yankees is if they are totally hurting financially.

I read somewhere before the season that the colelctive agreement expires after this season and the way that teams qualify to pay luxury tax from year to year is worded in byzantine fashion...In short, if a team can get out from under the tax this season they apparently would be absolved the next season.  I may not have this totally correct but there is a strong incentive, due to the CBA expiring, for teams that are currently under the cap to get out for next season and for teams that have never been under it before this season they get a pass...Plus, maybe Steinbrenner even has his limits for the amount of money that he'll throw away in total?

by DudeVf1 on Jul 4, 2006 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would be for
getting Casey Blake. He and his wife Abbie are friends of my son and his wife.
I loathe AJP even more now!!

by sue369 on Jul 3, 2006 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

interesting
i dont think blake would be that bad of an option.....has 25 hr pop, not a fielding stud but maybe an upgrade over aramis???

by geetarnwhiskey on Jul 3, 2006 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

WHAT???
You're usually level headed. Please point to some sort of evidence that indicated A-Rod is in decline. I know of none.

by BeerCub on Jul 2, 2006 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry out of order
I just posted above. His BA is down, his HR number are way downand if you have the misery to watch the Yankees as much
as I do , he has been really messing up in the clutch
He had a walk off homer last  week but other than
that the fans have been booing him mercelesly for
a month. He is NOT worth 20 plus million  a year
( see above as I would rather spend the money
elsewhere)

by jessica on Jul 2, 2006 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It could be just a down year
He's still just 30.  Besides...

he has been really messing up in the clutch
He had a walk off homer last  week but other than
that the fans have been booing him mercelesly for
a month.

W/RISP: .300/.448/.522/.971
RISP w/2 outs: 325/.518/.550/1.068

The booing is probably due to the high expectations that people place on him.  But the truth is that very few people are more "clutch" than A-Rod.

by VS on Jul 2, 2006 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

20 million +
Do you happen to know backloaded A-Rod's deal with Texas originally was?  If I remember correctly, he had $179 million left over 7 seasons when traded to the Yankees and the Rangers had to pick up 67 million of that.  That left 7 years at $112 million (16 mil per) for the yankees.  So would I trade an overperforming Jacque and his overvalued contract along with A-Ram for A-rod, absolutely.  Plus I think that A-rod would be more welcomed in Chicago than New York as long as he put up decent numbers in Chicago and could instantly make Chicago his town since the people of Chicago are eagerly awaiting someone that is larger than life and is a marquee name.  

Also, if the deal were to go down however, I would try to pry away a Jose Tabata or Joba Chamberlain from the Yankees since we could use all the prospects in the world

by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

WHAT decline?
He's half a season from .321/.421/.610.  Yes, his numbers are down a little this year but he is also playing in a park that kills RH power hitters.  I believe he set a Yankee HR record for RH batters last season.  

I doubt this will happen but depending on the rest of the deal, the Cubs make this in a minute.    

by rlpete on Jul 2, 2006 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ARod's Salary
I believe is still being subsidized by the Rangers.  If I recall correctly, they absorbed a huge chunk when he was trade, one of the reasons I was pissed that the Cubs didn't make an effort back then.

by davidalanu on Jul 2, 2006 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A-Rod..
..is having a sub-par year to his standards, but I bet that his PECOTA rating was high for this year so it's all good.  
vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 2, 2006 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A Rod's decline
Would still make him the best player on the Cubs and probably the second best player in the National League (after Pujols).

But I don't believe the Yankees would do that.  But I hope I'm wrong.

by Josh77 on Jul 2, 2006 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No it wouldn't
Look it is entirely possible that his first half of
the season is a blip but based on those numbers
he MIGHT be the best player on the Cubs depending
on how Lee comes back but he would not be in the top
10 in most catagories of NL players. Look we all it
won't happen because the  Yankees won't do it
and A-Rod would never agree. It is true that
a Sub Par a Rod year is substantially better than MOST
players but he is not in top 2 of NL and I for one
think there is a lot of upside to A-Ram  who is starting
to hit now than Lee is back and is 3 years younger.
He is nowhere NEAR the fielder A-Rod is but I would
keep him. Anyway it is academic but for fun lets
keep track of the A-Rod. A Ram JJ stats for the year

Off for the day.

by jessica on Jul 2, 2006 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't agree more...
I would rather see anyone BUT A-Rod. We'd be paying way too much for way too little. Anyone else notice that he's had 13 errors this season so far (tied for  4th most in the majors)? He is one of the most overrated players in recent memory. We should avoid this trade like the plague.
"That would be a home run, if it were in a phone booth!" -H. Caray

by riggs on Jul 4, 2006 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overrated?
He arguably the best player in baseball.  And barring injury or early retirement, he'll over take Bonds on the all time homers list.  The guy is incredible.  You don't know much about baseball.

by Chad on Jul 4, 2006 2:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Umm....
What I'm getting at is he's not worth the money he's going to demand. Sure, the guy is good, but you can look at the stats from plenty of other active players who are just as good or better in every category but HRs. For example- Todd Helton. Career BA of .335, OBP of .443, and a slug percentage of .602...compared to .306,.386,.575 for A-Rod. I know,  Helton's not on the market, but I'm just making a point-Helton makes 9 million a year LESS and posts numbers that are just as good or better. As for A-Rod...he's good, but not 25 million a year good. Next time, I'd appreciate you not randomly calling me out.
"That would be a home run, if it were in a phone booth!" -Harry Caray

by riggs on Jul 4, 2006 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Helton
Please give me an example of a player who didn't play his entire career in Colorado.  

ARod is the BEST IN THE GAME.  The B   E    S  T player in baseball the only argument I will listen to is Albert Puljos.

by Chad on Jul 4, 2006 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overrated???????
By what measure of performance?

By any measure he is one of the greatest players to ever play the game, plus he plays the position that is the third worst offensive position in basbeall, i.e., across the vast spectrum of MLB seasons the SS position is the third worst for offesnive production.  He's like having the run production of a hall of fame first baseman at SS and he is outstanding defensively.

No player can live up to a contract of the magnitude of A-Rod, but this is an economic phenomenon not a baseball production problem with A-Rod.

When teams bid for players there is an incentive for teams with resources to "over-pay" for that player who makes the difference for them.  Diminishing returns is all that it is...The Yankess have been able to afford such for a while, maybe they can't anymore?

You have to have mucho big financial resources to absorb A-Rod's salary and not have it impair the remainder of your roster.  If the Cubs are fine with this then you do it, but it would be foolish if we did it and then fielded the same AAA team as this season just to keep the budget under $95 million.

by DudeVf1 on Jul 4, 2006 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al, you're a big liar....
2.  he is a marketable star, something the Cubs have lacked since Sammy Sosa left.

WHAT ABOUT NEIFI?!?!?!?!?!?!?!  He saved the Cubs last year, remember?!?!?!?!?

by colossus on Jul 2, 2006 5:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep
I've been suggesting this trade to my Yankee fan friends and co-workers since Matsui and Sheffield went down.  The Yankee fans seem to like the deal.

IF, this were to happen the Cubs would without question need two high OBP guys to bat 1,2 ahead of D-Lee and A-Rod. And Neifi would have to be DFA so Dusty isn't tempted.

Still will need some pop out of the outfield though. Definitely an interesting trade.

by BringBackRyno on Jul 2, 2006 5:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I hate rumors like this
the cubs never land big deals, A-rod is one of the games biggest stars the yankees won't deal him.

by amaru on Jul 2, 2006 5:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah no kidding...
The Cubs NEVER make the big trade.

Remember that Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee deal?

Fell through.

Remember that three-way trade that messed with everybody where we were to send Alex Gonzalez to the Expos, the Expos were going to send Orlando Cabrera to the Red Sox, and we were going to get Nomar Garciaparra?

I really thought that one would happen. Never did.

And sheesh, remember that deal in 2003 that was supposed to happen where we were to send JUNK for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton?

I mean, man, if that would have happened, we might have gone to the playoffs that year.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

re
Remember that Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee deal?
Lee was far from being one of the biggest stars in MLB and a lot of Cub fans thought he was to expensive.

And sheesh, remember that deal in 2003 that was supposed to happen where we were to send JUNK for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton?
That was a move by the Pirate to cut down payroll.

Garciaparra I'll give you, though the Red Sox weren' to to sad to see him go considering he had been getting hurt frequently.

by VS on Jul 2, 2006 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big deals are big deals...
The Nomar deal was a HUGE deal at the time and one nobody thought would happen.

A-Rod, from the way he's being treated and the way the club views him in comparison with golden boy Derek Jeter, the situation is looking very similar to what happened to Nomar in Boston.

If the Yankees decide to deal A-Rod to anybody, it will be for similar reasons that Nomar got dealt.

And the reasons you explain why the deals happened are irrelevant. So what if the Pirates were looking to cut payroll? The reason why is irrelevant.

It is still a big deal regardless if a team is simply looking to get rid of a player.

By your reasoning, A-Rod wouldn't be a huge deal if the Yankees were simply looking to cut payroll.

Nonsense.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

please
don't pretend the Lee we traded for was last year's Lee.  He got a lot better, and there is no way hendry saw that coming.

by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong
Here's Hendry right after the trade.

"He's a 30-plus home run guy and we think there's even more there," Hendry said. "He's kind of blossomed into stardom. He's the best fielding first baseman in the league. He's a tremendous makeup guy."

Here's more:

"We think Derrek Lee is capable of even bigger numbers. Here's a guy 28 years old and just growing into his peak years."

Just because YOU didn't see it coming didn't mean nobody else did.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

please
Hendry is not going too say he is capable of less.  If your boy Hendry is so good, how come he builds this shit team two years in a row?  Hendry must have know that eventually Lee would learn how to turn on the inside pitches.  Bullshit.

by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does any GM get everything right?
Larry Himes saw Sammy Sosa as a fantastic pickup and predicted great things. Was he wrong? No. Was he a good GM? No.

Same with Hendry.

You need to be introduced to how humanity works my friend. Hendry is not an idiot. He has made good decisions in the past, he has made more bad decisions in the present. I know it is more comfortable for you to paint someone you have grown to dislike with a brush that says every good decision is a fluke, while every bad decision is the truth, but it just doesn't work that way.

Hendry predicted great things for Lee. He was right. In regards to a number of other things he has been wrong.

You can't be this obtuse about how people work and think. Not everybody is right all the time nor wrong all the time.

People are both smart and stupid and with baffling irregularity.

I think as an adult who has mastered at least the basics of posting on a message board you would have a bit more perspective and wisdom on how human nature is and how intelligence works.

Human being aren't computers, they aren't consistent, and even the best of them fail more than they succeed.

You see that everywhere. In the arts, in politics, in business, and I'm shocked you haven't figured it out.

So allow me to be the first to say, "welcome to the Human race."

Hendry was right about Lee. You didn't see it. Get over it.

And he's not my boy either. How insecure you must be in your own opinions to label someone who disagrees with you as a Hendry boy. I'm not. I wish he hadn't gotten extended and I think he should be let go.

BUT, I am rooting for him to turn it around, and I'm not going to discount every single good decision he has made.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow
how conescending.  thank you for taking a minute to come down from your ivory tower to bless me with your genius.  And by genius I mean to repeat yourself without actually adding anything besides your penny sociology. If Hendry's dealings impress you, wonderful.  They do not impress me. Hendry knew Lee would improve so greatly?  Hendry's overvaluing of our prospects leads me to believe otherwise.  If you call 30 guys can't miss, 1 is bound to make it on numbers alone.  Doesn't make you a prophet or a (gasp) good GM.  Neither does working trades with teams who are trying to dump a guy for payroll or chemistry.  Thanks for the welcome though, I'll be sure to file that next to my Brant Brown autograph.

by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about reading my post next time...
Did I say all of Hendry's dealings impress me?

No.

Did I say Hendry was a good GM?

No.

Did I say he should be let go?

Yes.

All I said was that he was right about Lee, and he has made good moves in the past. His recent moves or, more truthfully, his recent non-moves, have hurt this team and are grounds for his dismissal, which I would support if it were to happen.

Since he's been extended, it's not going to happen.

So, I root for him to return to his days of better moves. It's better than crying and grousing and spewing vitrol, which doesn't help and is borne purely of ego.

And once again you boggle the imagination with your lack of understanding why deals are made.

So. I will make it as clear as I can.

TEAMS
DO
NOT
TRADE
MARQUEE
PLAYERS
EXCEPT
FOR
THE
REASONS
YOU
STATED

Chemistry and salary dumps. These are the reasons good players are traded.

Boston would have NEVER traded Nomar to ANYBODY had he not fallen out of favor with the team.

Pittsburgh WANTED to keep Aramis Ramirez, but they couldn't afford him.

Alex Rodriguez was traded the FIRST TIME because of CHEMISTRY and SALARY. Was that not a huge deal for the Yankees at the time? Have you spoken to any Red Sox fans about how they think about that deal? They were supposed to get him and they messed it up.

No team trades a great player unless they are put into a position where they feel they have to. No matter what great player we could trade for, the reasons that team would trade would fall into one of those two categories.

According to your logic, there have been no big trades in the history of baseball that any GM could take credit for.

And it doesn't take someone in an ivory tower to see that.

Good grief, no GM could win by your goofy rules.

Oh, except the ones that, for whatever reason, you decide you like.

Credit Hendry for beating the other teams out who were looking to add the players we ended up adding.

More than one team was after Derrek Lee. More than one would have liked to have added Nomar. And as the A-Rod saga proved, more than one was after him.

It may blow your mind to realize that you can credit a GM for good moves in the past but still support his removal in the present.

Try removing the anger and hatred and you might find your brain works better.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

derrek lee
was a marquee player when he got traded?  Hardly.

by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was still traded for one of those reasons...
I didn't say ONLY marquee players get traded for these reasons, other players are traded as well for these reasons.

But when a marquee player is dealt it is for one of those two reasons.

You're reaching to find something to criticize in my post, and, having nothing, you try splitting hairs.

Derrek Lee was a very good first baseman when he was dealt for, he has since become one of the very best, and we gave up absolutely NADA for him.  

Regardless of what you think, that trade is one of the absolute BEST the Cubs have made in recent memory. Lee is a fantastic player and a great person.

And you can thank Jim Hendry that he is here, and will be, for many years to come.

Blast Hendry all you want for his mistakes, and he has made plenty, but the Derrek Lee deal he got right. It has turned out to be a huge right, and will be one of the big reasons we turn this team around next year.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bravo!
I keep thinking about where this team would be if Hendry would have hung on to Nomar. Especially while our superstar D Lee was out.

by teacher tom on Jul 2, 2006 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

either way
nothing you can say will make me believe Hendry thought Lee would be hitting .335 two years later, and for all we know he could hit .270 this year by the end. The way he described the change in his swing leads me to believe he will not.  His defense alone was enough for me to like the trade, and please find where I said I thought it was a bad trade.  

by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

to summarize
I am less impressed with Hendry's good trades becasue they were made with the other team dumping payroll or in Nomar's case a clubhouse cancer.  

You say that is the only way marquee players get moved.

I say Ramirez and Lee were not marqee players at that time.  

You say that is splitting hairs.

On a completely related topic, Carlos Lee was traded for Pods to change the make up of both involved teams, there was probably some cash difference involved, but the trade was to benefit two teams with different needs. Sosa was traded because he sucked, although the propaganda machine did give us the clubhouse cancer story. Of course, Stone made several comments that described those as some of Sosa's weaker offenses over the years.  I would consider those marquee guys.

Bottom line, Hendry's last good trade was a while ago, we'll see what he does this offseason with little to no trade bait.

by mike bornemann on Jul 3, 2006 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's no question
That Hendry has left this team well short the past couple of years.  That does not discredit the fact that he saw the potential of Lee, and for that matter, Barrett.  Try to be even-handed in your assessment.

by davidalanu on Jul 2, 2006 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i said hendry
deals with teams that are bent over a barrel, and that I doubt Hendry saw this big change coming.  Hardly inflammatory.

by mike bornemann on Jul 2, 2006 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again...how else do big deals happen?
Why do you keep pounding that point home when it isn't a point at all?

If teams weren't bent over a barrel, then NO GOOD PLAYERS WOULD EVER BE TRADED.

The Rangers were bent over a barrel when they were trying to get out of the stifling A-Rod contract. That's how he was eventually traded.

Same with Ramirez. Same with Lee. Same with Nomar.

Any big deal involving very good players has the party trading them in some sort of bind, either in terms of chemistry, or in terms of finances.

The credit to Hendry and to Minaya and to Cashman and others who make these deals is that they offer what the selling team wants (or hoodwinks them), and they beat out all other competitors.

I don't know why you don't just give up and admit that you're wrong about this one.

Here's the thing: you can say that Hendry has made good deals in the past but has blown whatever currency he had with fans with his mistakes the past two years and therefore should be let go, and I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU.

But no, you stubbornly stick to a fallacious argument, split hairs and whine and fuss, all in an attempt to make it look like Hendry has never made any good moves, and has lucked into everything, which, sorry to say, he hasn't.

Please, you're embarrassing yourself. Admit he's made good moves in the past, but that he stinks now, I'll agree with you, and we'll move on.

by felixfelicis on Jul 3, 2006 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

R E A D I N G
read the comment 3 inches above your head.  then find where i said the d lee trade was a bad trade.

by mike bornemann on Jul 3, 2006 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not inflammatory
but certainly not even-handed.  If the other teams were so "bent over the barrell" any team could have made the deals.  Hendry did.  Again, he's greatly to blame for this season, but I find it ridiculous to say that his bad deals, or lack of deals are because he's bad, but his good deals are because of luck.  It's overstating to try and make a point that's not valid.

by davidalanu on Jul 3, 2006 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're right
any team could have made those deals, any team that had the prospects the selling team wanted. Ramirez and Lee were getting traded regardless, we happened to have the alleged "best prospects."  In any trade involving prospects there is luck involved, sometimes the prospects pan out (Dontrelle) sometimes they do not (Bobby Hill).  The burden is on the scouts of the selling team to know what they are getting.  In the DLee and Ramirez trades, those scouts were wrong.  The last two years and constant overvaluing of our poor prospects has made my opinion of Hendry change.  Yes, those were great trades.  But Hendry didn't talk them into those trades, he didn't trick anyone, they evaluated and made their own decisions. I am not prepared to give him as much credit as I used to.

by mike bornemann on Jul 3, 2006 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because you're upset over the past year and a half
you won't give Hendry credit for solid trades he had made before.  While I understand the frustration, the logic escapes me.  

by davidalanu on Jul 3, 2006 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nope
just not going to give him as much credit as I did before.

by mike bornemann on Jul 3, 2006 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What I meant
was for players who are already proven at their positions:

You infact do make a good point, all those deals did pay big dividens. give credit to hendry for seeing moves that payed off big. But NOBODY saw the increase in production by Lee coming, at not as least aas much as it was. And as for Nomar, Ramirez, and Lofton it made sense for those teams to trade those players, given the timing in the season, for whatever reason(rebuilding, cut payroll, etc...)

But the Cubs have never made that yankeesque type move for a sheffield or arod or damon, or Randy Johnson. That's what I meant by big deals.

by amaru on Jul 2, 2006 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even still...
Nomar is a HUGE name and he was traded to US.

Why is everybody getting hung up on the reasons?

Teams don't move MARQUEE PLAYERS unless they need to cut payroll, or a player falls out of favor.

What reason would suffice for everybody so we can give somebody a little credit for getting them?

Should the Yankees just hand us A-Rod because they like us and want us to get better? What reason would qualify so that everybody here would agree that we make a big deal when it happens?

If the Yankees decide to deal us A-Rod, it will be because they are looking to cut some payroll down, and that A-Rod has fallen too far out of favor. It will be the Pirates's reason for dealing Aramis to us, and the Red Sox reason for dealing us Nomar rolled into one.

And by the reasoning of everybody here, it won't be a big deal.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you didn't read what I wrote
did you?

I gave credit to Hendry for having good judgement and having the ability to pull the trigger on deals.

What I'm saying is that the Cubs haven't sealed a deal for a MARQUEE PLAYER in a long time.

And like you said, Nomar was a huge MARQUEE "NAME" but he wasn't a MARQUEE "PLAYER" at the time of the trade.

by amaru on Jul 2, 2006 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wrong.
Teams don't move MARQUEE PLAYERS unless they need to cut payroll, or a player falls out of favor.

This is wrong or useless. You are saying (repeatedly) that teams don't trade marquee players to improve the team?

1.) so what?
2.) richie sexson.

if the yankees are looking to deal a-rod it would be to improve the OF and their pitching.

by jacob on Jul 10, 2006 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay...
But understand that no team trades a player of high quality unless they feel they absolutely have to.

Credit the GM who receives this player for beating out all other offers, which is no small task.

Just because the deal made sense on the other side doesn't make it any less of an accomplishment for the GM that gets the player in question.

It's not as though GMs are out there fooling other teams to trade their best players for opera tickets.

by felixfelicis on Jul 3, 2006 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arod has a no trade clause
and I don't see him waiving it, regardless of his stats and how he's being treated.

In terms of Scott Williamson's inteview, I'm disappointed, what happens in the clubhouse should stay in the clubhouse.  If he wanted to call out Dusty, though Dusty deserves it, it should be handled in-house.  Maybe if it was Derrek Lee or Zambrano or Maddux, I wouldn't mind as much.  Hendry took a chance on him, he owes Hendry some respect.

But, it doesn't surprise me, we see it in all sports, when teams are losing, people beginning to talk.  I just want Hendry to get a handle on this team.

Al, any sense if their is mutiny, besides Williamson in the clubhouse?  

by Grnwithivy on Jul 2, 2006 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks
I thought he would have one. No way he waives it

by jessica on Jul 2, 2006 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You sure?
If he's getting booed now, despite being one of the game's elite players, think of how he would be treated by the fans if they thought he was standing in the way of them making a good trade.  

Also, think of the marketing side--I'm not from NYC, but I get the idea that its a Jeter town, as far as advertising success.  A-Rod could make some money here, I get the feeling that his face would be everywhere.  

by TC Cubby on Jul 3, 2006 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Players waive for money...
If he is compensated to his liking and he thinks that he will have a chance to win in Chicago, he'll waive it immediately...He'd be the start of the team and the town immediately.

by DudeVf1 on Jul 4, 2006 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would love to see it
However it really doesn't make sense for the Yankees. They would want a good arm back along with Jones and Ramirez, Maybe Glenndon, oops, just a joke. I will cross everything Al if you say this rumor has legs, It would help the Cubs. You know all the people getting on JJ, he is by far the best hitter right now on this Cub team, But to get A-Rod,   Jones ( or Pierre), Ramirez and who, I would hate to give up Marshall or Marmol
"Just not getting any breaks" Johnnie Baker

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jul 2, 2006 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Next years lineup...
Hunter CF
Cedeno, 2B
D. Lee 1B
Rodriguez SS
Cabrera 3B
C. Lee, LF
Barrett, C
Pie RF
Zito P

Hey... a guy can dream, can't he?

"If you can accept losing, you can't win." - Vince Lombardi

by bergs55 on Jul 2, 2006 6:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why in god's name would you put Hunter...
Leading off?

If you're gonna dream, do it right.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure is a Dream
Caberra is going no where folks  and Zito is a Met or Yankee, count on it
"Just not getting any breaks" Johnnie Baker

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jul 2, 2006 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It makes sense
that the Yanks dump some salary if they intend on pursuing Zito.
Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 2, 2006 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Howry's save
Great writeup -- A-rod...hmm...

You've got the save rule wrong, Al.  There's a 3-run clause -- here's the text from the scoring page of the rulebook on mlb.com (http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp):

10.20
Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions:
(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and
(2) He is not the winning pitcher; and
(3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions:
(a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or
(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or
(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

by gharp on Jul 2, 2006 6:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the clarification...
... apparently, under 10.20 (3)(a), Howry qualified even though his "full inning" didn't come with a 3-run or less lead. It's kind of ambiguous, though, wouldn't you say?

by Al on Jul 3, 2006 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its quite clear
Its quite clear.   The rule says that the pitcher must come in with a lead of 3 runs or less and pitch a full inning.  It doesn't say that the pitcher must pitch a full inning with a lead of three runs or less.

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 3, 2006 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ambiguous...
The rule says it's a 3-run lead when he "enters the game" so I think it's pretty clear.  You can argue that it's not Howry's "fault" that the Cubs scored enough to take him out of a save situation.  Still, I think your point is that it's not like he really earned the save since he only pitched 1/3 of an inning protecting a 3-run lead.

Eh, the win+save rules are pretty strange.  It always irks me when a reliever blows a save then gets a win because his team comes from behind for him (something I remember Billy Koch did to the A's at least 5 times on his way to the Rolaids Reliever of the Year Award in 2002).  

It's also frustrating when a pitcher is very effective for 4+ innings but comes out early for some reason (injury, rain delay, etc), then can't get the win because he didn't go 5 so they give it to some random reliever.

by gharp on Jul 3, 2006 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Money issues
If the Yankees, er, George Steinbrenner, (the man who prints his own money), doesn't want to pony up for his salary or luxury tax,what makes one think that Jim Hendry or The Tribune will? They wouldn't go the extra inch to get Furcal? If they were willing, don't you think they would make a run at someone like Clemens? I know he was deadset on the Astros, but he is just one good high priced player. Second point, look what a bind that Sosa's $18 mil per year put on the Cub's improvement plans!

by fuzzycubfan on Jul 2, 2006 6:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

As I asked earlier
Does anyone know how backloaded A-Rod's contract is?  I know when he was traded to the Yankees they were only required to pay $112 million over 7 years (16 mil per depending on the backload) which would leave in the neighborhood of 4 yrs at $64 for the cubs depending. Almost everyone on here is pushing for El Caballo to be signed which would require the same amount of money.  On top of that, dealing away Jacque and Aramis together, which would probably be required, would equal A-Rod's salary and wouldn't handicap the Cubs that badly as long as they get out from deadweight contracts currently on this team.

by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

4 yrs 64 million?
I'll take that for A-Rod. Especially in Wrigley.

16 million per is fine for a player of A-Rod's caliber.

Take away Aramis's 11 million and Jacque's 4 million and A-Rod is essentially paid for.

And with the new revenue and the money we'll save from Maddux and Wood being gone we'll have enough to get more pitching and add Carlos Lee.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I finally found it
A-Rod is making $27 per year with the Rangers picking up $10.  So A-Rod would essentially be somewhere around $17 per year for his final 4 yrs.  A-Ram's contract increases by 1/2 million per yr for the remainder of his deal and Jacque's increases by $1 mil per yr for the final two years on his.  Not to mention the Cubs will not pick up Wood's $13.5 million option, although I hope they can bring him back after convincing him his future is in the pen and signing him to an incentive laden contract.  Maddux, we'll have to see what happens, but that would save another $8 million or more.  If he comes back then so be it, it doesn't really matter to me b/c if he is used as a 4th or 5th starter like he should be then I take him over anyone else the Cubs have at this point in time.

Offseason pickups:  The Cubs could conceivably still go after Carlos Lee if they have any intentions of doing so even with picking up A-Rod.  Personally, I happen to agree with mlbtraderumors.com's analysis of the Cubs going after players like Cliff Floyd and Preston Wilson.  Wilson b/c the combo of high K's - low obp - Hendry hoping for a return to better days in CO and Floyd b/c it's been rumored before and Floyd and Hendry go all the way back to Hendry's days at Creighton.  Also, Aubrey Huff would be the one to come in and play 3rd if A-rod moved to short and Ronny to 2nd, unless we made a trade with the Dodgers and got the man a lot of people here seem to want, Cesar Izturis.

by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i predict
the cubs trade maddux for izturis. not saying i want that, just a prediction.

by tomas21 on Jul 3, 2006 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see....
... the Dodgers trading for another starting pitcher at this time, after acquiring Hendrickson. And I think the Cubs would want more for Maddux IF they traded him.

Which I don't think is going to happen anyway.

by Al on Jul 3, 2006 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Luxury Tax
The luxury tax has not and probably never will affect what the Cubs are willing to do in the market.  The luxury tax was for payrolls above $120.5 in 2004, $128 in 2005, $136.5 in 2006, and conceivably somewhere in the neighborhood or $145 in 2007 if the increses keep up.  So talking about A-Rod triggering the luxury tax for the Cubs is a moot point unless the Cubs decided to sign Carlos Lee, Barry Zito, Jason Schmidt, and Alfonso Soriano as well during the offseason

by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pitching around Uribe
doesn't make sense. With the Cubs up 7-2 if you walk Uribe, a .238 hitter you load the bases and watch Thome pinch hit and have no place to put him.
Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 2, 2006 6:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Scott Williamson
Memo to Williamson

Scott, don't let the door hit you in your sorry ass on the way out.

by Clark Addison on Jul 2, 2006 7:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah right
like Scott has been lights out the whole time here, geez, get a real job Scott.
"Just not getting any breaks" Johnnie Baker

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jul 2, 2006 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What did Williamson say?
n/t
Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue.

by Cubby4life3 on Jul 2, 2006 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All Star Teams
Just an interesting side note to make quickly. Neither Liriano from the Twins or Verlander from the Tigers made the AL team although Jenks, Buerhle, and  Contreras all made the team.  Nomar didn't make the NL team either.  All examples of why the All Star process is seriously flawed, IMO.

by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 7:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Angel Guzman?
I can't remember the last time Guzman pitched?  Why have him sit on the bench, and have him become  ineffective, send him down to AAA.  Dusty needs to work on managing this bullpen and ensuring his players get enough work in.

by Grnwithivy on Jul 2, 2006 7:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm gonna be short and sweet
Al, either you're nuts or the Yankees are.

by Josh77 on Jul 2, 2006 7:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i seriously hope this happens
if you have an a-rod caliber player at short, you can live with an aubrey huff at third!!!  you can afford murtons lack of power assuming that a bopper is signed to play the other corner as maybe jacque would go in this deal.

pierre
cedeno
lee
a-rod
lee
barrett
huff
murton

i dont know, looks sweet to me.  i still have this great hope that the cubs could get andruw jones though even though im sure there have probably not even been any inkling of talks or interest.....i mean i am sure we could match a brian anderson type with some pitching prospects

by geetarnwhiskey on Jul 2, 2006 7:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

A-ram for A-rod
A-ram for A-rod works for me.  Throwing in Jacque Jones doesn't.  He's our best hitter this year, and if he continues to play the way he has (bad throws notwithstanding) his 3 year contract could be a good deal.  

Try throwing in a second tier pitching prospect.  Maybe the Yankees still believe all they hype about the arms in our system.

by Clark Addison on Jul 2, 2006 7:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The problem is
Realistically there is no way Jones will continue to play the way he is now for the rest of the contract.  History is a good authority on how you can expect someone of Jones age to perform and history suggests that Jones is over his head.  Anyone who truly thinks or hopes otherwise is being shortsighted.  When it's all said and done Jones won't be worth what he's getting paid.

The switch to the NL from the AL may have helped Jones, since it's considered easier to go from the AL to the NL than vice versa.  Just imagine what someone like ARod would be able to do if that's true.  

My point is, don't get hung up on Jones just because he's having a good half-year.  Lot's of GM's before have fallen in love with this kind of player only to be looking for work shortly after.

by pageian on Jul 2, 2006 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

David Justice ripped ARod
the other day on the Yankees YES network, and word is the orders to rip into ARod came down from the top.  At least from the top of the YES network, maybe not from Steinbrenner himself.  The thinking is that if Steinbrenner didn't order Justice to lay into ARod then maybe YES managers where just doing it to make Steinbrenner happy.  Either way, it doesn't sound like King George is too happy with ARod.  

I suspect that the rumor, if it's true, is probably just Yankee propoganda to put a little fear into ARod, but who knows.  They really do have issues with the payroll/luxury tax so it's possible they want to move him.  It's possible.

by pageian on Jul 2, 2006 8:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And the Next Day
After having a long discussion with his first manager Sweet Lou about all the b.s. he has had to deal with in New York, he wwent out and hit a walk off homer against the Atlanta Braves.

by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looking at it from A-Rod's Point of View
First, being a Yankee has its advantages.  Historically, a Yankee does not need stats as good as a non-Yankee to get into the HOF.  (His stats ought to be good enough, but this is an "insurance policy.")  

Second, as a Yankee, he has a much better chance of getting at least one ring.  

Third, his non-salary earnings will be higher as a Yankee.  Going to the Cubs may or may not be a major hit in this department.  After all, Chicago isn't St. Pete/Tampa or Milwaukee.

Fourth, regardless of what people say about him, I doubt that he wants to be perceived as a "quitter" for leaving NY.  

Fifth, he will be expected to be an Instant Messiah in Chicago.  He does not seem comfortable in that role.  

There are probably another 5-6 reasons that I could come up with if I put some more time into this.      

Have U Ever Been Experienced? Well, Luis has...

by The Luis Salazar Experience on Jul 2, 2006 8:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

New York is different
than Chicago.  I can't imagine Rodriguez would have trouble with being the savior of this team.  Whether it's true or not that he comes up short in pressure situations (the stats say he doesn't, the arm chair quarterbacks think he does) he would have a better chance to thrive in Chicago than he does in New York.  

When you have a chance to get a rare talent like ARod, you do it.  If the Yankees offer is reasonable I can't see any reason for the Cubs to say no.

As for ARod saying no, that's another story.  He probably wouldn't want to leave the Yankees but you never know, maybe he's tired of all the crap that goes with being in (Yankee) pinstripes.  I don't know about his no trade clause, but he was traded once so he is moveable.  Would he approve going to the Cubs?  Maybe, maybe not.  We'll never know if we don't ask, and if you think there is a chance you have to ask.

by pageian on Jul 2, 2006 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also
In Chicago he would be revered almost no matter what happened.  He would probably get standing ovations just for showing up.  In New York he's been forced to try and be reserved like Jeter and be a media darling instead of being like Reggie Jackson.  IMO, He would be allowed to be himself in Chicago without having anyone to try to be like since we already have the two extremes (Z and D Lee). In NY he will be booed until he gets a game winning hit in the World Series. In Chicago he could become God by simply being a piece that gets the Cubs there.

Also, if this deal did happen, what do you think the possibilities are of Baker being let go in favor of someone new (e.g. Lou Pinella)?

by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 2, 2006 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The one has nothing to do with the other...
... and could you all please stop the Piniella nonsense?

Within a month of his hiring, if it happened, all of you who hate Baker would be bitching about why Piniella doesn't play the kids, why his lineups suck, and how poorly he handles the pitching staff.

Oh, but he can throw a mean tantrum.

This team doesn't need tantrums.

I'll say it again: IF Baker is not retained, the best choice for the next manager would be Joey Cora.

by Al on Jul 3, 2006 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cora
Why is Cora the new flavor of the day?  What is his previous experience?  Has he managed in Winter Ball?  Has he managed in the minor leagues?  Why Cora and not some other current 3rd base coach in the Major Leagues?  I'm not saying that Cora isn't a good choice, but I'd like to know why you think he would be the best.

by FrankSereno on Jul 3, 2006 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cora...
... has indeed managed in winter ball. He has also been the bench coach for a World Series winner.

And perhaps most importantly, he speaks Spanish. This cannot be underrated in an era when 1/3 or more of rosters are native Spanish speakers.

The White Sox credit Jose Contreras' revival to the fact that his manager and one key coach could communicate with him in his native language.

Spanish-speaking players come here from another culture and many times have a hard time adapting. Having the guy in charge be someone who understands that culture and can communicate directly with him -- I don't think that's a small issue at all.

Finally, the last two Cub manager hires have been "big names" -- Baylor and Baker. Having seen teams succeed, or be on the way there, with names like Scioscia, Yost and Guillen, people with no previous managerial experience, perhaps this is the way to go.

by Al on Jul 3, 2006 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah culture
That way they can call people fags and not get in trouble for it.

by Chad on Jul 3, 2006 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now Ozzie
started his sensitivity classes today. Could Dan Jiggetts have his nose up Ozzies ass any more than he does now? Why don't they just rename The Chicago Tribune show the White Sox show? He is just sickening...yuck!!
I loathe AJP even more now!!

by sue369 on Jul 3, 2006 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you blame them.....
for not talking about the Cubs?  They suck this year.  How many stories about blown plays can they run?  When the Cubs win, it will be our time.  Right now we are f'ed.
he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 3, 2006 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just really
hate the Sox and it bugs the hell out of me. I just needed to vent.
I loathe AJP even more now!!

by sue369 on Jul 3, 2006 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dusty Baker speaks Spanish
n/t
All will be fixed in 2006

by DSZ on Jul 3, 2006 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, Dusty Baker speaks Spanish...
... but he is not a native Spanish speaker, nor did he grow up in a Latin American culture.

There's a big difference, and I think having someone who qualifies under both of those conditions, would make a difference in how the Hispanic players would play for such a manager.

by Al on Jul 4, 2006 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cora manager
If he were offered the job,
you think he would jump at it
or hesitate ??
Cubspizza

by quarryfan on Jul 3, 2006 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Any major league coach...
... particularly a young one, such as Cora (he's only 41), would jump at the opportunity to be a manager.

And no team would prevent such a coach from taking such an offer.

by Al on Jul 4, 2006 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Argh!
If only we were permitted to talk about certain Spanish-speaking political leaders on BCB!

by FrankSereno on Jul 4, 2006 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just a ?
I wasn't saying that I was in favor of hiring Piniella or even taht the cubs would go after him.  All I was asking was that if the A-Rod deal went down, do you think that the Cubs front office would be tempted to make him more comfotable by hiring his first manager and by doing that also appeasing everyone calling for Baker's head.

I agree with you all on the whole Joey Cora side of things to a point. I think the next manager needs to be someone who is very fluent in Spanish and can communicate with players in their native tongue.  From history though, I would like to see a manager come from the Atlanta Braves organization since their track record tends to be a very good one.

by Bleed Husker Red on Jul 3, 2006 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think..
.... a player of A-Rod's status needs to feel "comfortable" by the hiring of someone who managed him eleven years ago.

You mention the Braves organization; Fredi Gonzalez, another native Spanish speaker (born in Cuba), the Atlanta 3B coach, would be my next choice after Cora.

Gonzalez, in fact, was interviewed by Hendry at the time Dusty Baker was hired.

by Al on Jul 4, 2006 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quick rebuttal
  1.  A-Rod has no worry about not making the Hall of Fame.  He could retire tomorrow and he probably makes the Hall.  He could play the rest of his career for the Kansas Fracking City Royals and make Cooperstown.  This is not an issue.
  2.  His chances of getting a ring with the Yankees would seem to be greater.  But as they say in the investment world--past performance is no guarantee of future results.  And also, why did he sign with the Rangers again?  To have the best chance of winning a ring?
  3.  Endorsement income really shouldn't be an issue for someone making 25 million a year.  And as you say, he'd do fine as a Cub in this area.
  4.  You're probably right on the "quitter" label.  He'd get that and he wouldn't like it.  On the other hand, if he won a ring in Chicago, he wouldn't care and no one else would either.
  5.  Dunno about the "messiah" thing.  He does seem to like being the center of attention.  What he doesn't seem to like is when he hits .321 with 48 HR and 130 RBI like he did last year and it doesn't seem to be good enough.  Would Cub fans blame him if he put up those numbers and we didn't win the World Series?  
The other reason why he might go is that he just wouldn't want to be on a team that didn't want him.  I know I wouldn't.  

But I still don't think the Yankees are dumb enough to trade him, and certainly not for Ramirez and Jones.

by Josh77 on Jul 2, 2006 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's a way it could happen...
First off, I agree that A-Rod probably wouldn't be traded, at least not right now.

To get to the postseason this year, the Yankees need A-Rod, they know that.

However, if the Yankees, seeing that right now they are 4.5 games back in their own division and 6.5 back in the Wild Card, fail to make the postseason, and A-Rod's end of year numbers closely mirror his 2004 performance (.286-36-106), you better believe they might look to see him moved once the offseason rolls around.

And the Yankees do need to cut their payroll. From revenue sharing to a luxury tax bill that will probably be close to 30 million this year, they are running at a loss, and they can't do that forever.

They need pitching in a bad way, and they have a ton of bad contracts they need to shed.

Getting Ramirez and Jones would be a great way to fill two positions for the price of A-Rod, not to mention the money saved from Jones replacing Sheffield.

Of course, they will look to add another bat, and my guess is it would be bringing back Alfonso Soriano to play a little of everywhere.

And with some decent free agent pitching on the market (Pettitte, Schmidt, Mulder, Zito), you better believe they will want to scoop at least one of those guys up while still lowering their payroll.

Personally, I don't think the Yankees are going to go to the postseason. I think Detroit and Chicago will duke it out for the NL Central with the loser taking the Wild Card, while the Red Sox, with their very strong overall team pull away from the Yankees, who I just don't think have enough anymore with Matsui and Sheffield on the shelf until September at the earliest.

Even if the Yankees squeak by, say, the Tigers, and get in as the WC, the White Sox or Red Sox should make short work of them. Especially with Sheffield and Matsui coming back from similar injuries to what Derrek Lee had.

And when this 200M payroll fails to make the postseason, you better believe heads will roll. Not only will the Yankees be a laughing stock, they will prove the theory that you really can't buy championships over the long haul. Every year the Yankee payroll goes up, every year they seem to get a little further away from their goal.

2003 they got to the World Series and lose.
2004 they were beat by the Red Sox in the ALCS.
2005 they didn't get out of the first round.
2006 they miss the postseason.

If and when this scenario occurs I think the Yankees will be very receptive to a Jones-Ramirez for A-Rod trade.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
that the Yankees aren't making the playoffs this season.  The Red Sox are too good and there are three teams in the AL Central (Don't forget the suddenly white hot Twins) that are going to battle it out for two playoff spots.  It's not likely, but it's entirely possible that the Blue Jays edge out the Yankees for second place in the East.

Would that cause a meltdown in NY?  It depends on whether or not Cashman can talk some sense into Steinbrenner.  The Yankees season was lost with the injuries to Matsui and Sheffield and the collapse of their pitching staff.  A sane man would realize that none of this has anything to do with A-Rod and if you were going to trade him, you'd better get Johann Santana from the Twins, except that the Twins can't make that trade financially--nor could the Marlins for Cabrera and Willis.

The only question then becomes:  Do the Yankees succumb to the Madness of King George?  Because that's the only real way they are going to trade A-Rod because no trade of him could possibly make the Yankees a better team.

by Josh77 on Jul 3, 2006 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Appreciate the Well-Reasoned Rebuttal...
...but I think you are kidding yourself on #2.

"His chances of getting a ring with the Yankees would seem to be greater.  But as they say in the investment world--past performance is no guarantee of future results.  And also, why did he sign with the Rangers again?  To have the best chance of winning a ring?"

The Yankees have won 26 WS since the Cubs last won a championship.  Be honest, do you REALLY think that the Cubs will win one before the Yankees get #27?  I think it's more likely that they will win another 26 before that happens.  

That said, MLB will probably have to go to some sort of cap or revenue-sharing within the next ten years.  This could have been avoided by some sort of television revenue-sharing system back during the last strike.  However, with no leadership/central authority at the helm, the large market teams continued their short-sighted strategy.  

Frankly, MLB deserves all the problems that it has, and then some.  When MLB does do something, it waits until a major crisis (or perceived major crisis) arises, then it overreacts.  Look at the All-Star game.  After 60+ years, we have a tie.  What does MLB do?  It throws the baby out with the bath water.  This may not be the best example, but it is on my mind today.  

Sorry for the rambling.  I am just disgusted today on a lot of levels.  1) Every game that I want to see today is blacked out, despite the fact that I live about four hours drive from the nearest MLB venue.  2) I am sick (and tired) of people @#$%ing about the All-Star selections already.  3) I am tired of seeing marginal players swing for the fences on every at bat.  4) I am tired of a Commissioner that is not only an owner, but the weakest owner.  5) I am tired of a system that bans Jackson and Rose for life, while trying to force-feed Bonds down my throat for passing Ruth.  6) I am tired of teams making the same bone-headed mistakes over and over again, like drafting HS pitchers.    

The Cubs are a microcosm for all that is wrong with baseball.  They are not alone; they are just the team that we follow.        

Have U Ever Been Experienced? Well, Luis has...

by The Luis Salazar Experience on Jul 3, 2006 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.
Wow is all I have to say. If it happens, I will be first in line for an A-Rod jersey.

What a great game today!

I just want the trade deadline to come a little quicker. I am so anxious to see what's going to happen around both leagues.

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 2, 2006 8:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

plus
aramis is what???  27 or 28 im not exactly sure.  a-rod as mentioned before is 30, so its not like we would be giving up such talented youth for an overpriced vet, as arods production makes up for the 2 year gap

by geetarnwhiskey on Jul 2, 2006 8:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Big Picture
"he is a marketable star, something the Cubs have lacked since Sammy Sosa left".

Don't you see something wrong with that quote. The Cubs rely on star power to sell tickets. don't kid yourselves, if this rumor comes to fruition it doesn't mean things are going to change for the better. It's just another chance to keep riding big ticket and product sales on the back of another superstar.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Jul 2, 2006 8:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

not exactly
one of the main problems with the cubs this year (amongst many) is they havent been able to score.  a-rod definately helps with that, and in terms of talent arod vs aram, arod wins by a landslide.  i see the point you are making, but at the same time it DOES help the team if a trade like this were to happen, starpower aside

by geetarnwhiskey on Jul 2, 2006 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ARod just came up big....
he just hit a grand slam to put the yankees ahead 6-4...I'm thinking this lowers his chances of being dealt, because yankees fans might stop booing for a little while....

hopefully the mets come back and then arod chokes in the bottom of the ninth. that would make the new yorkers hate him again, ha.

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 2, 2006 9:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Add another 3 run HR..
..for ARod tonight...2 HR and 7 RBI thru 5
Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jul 2, 2006 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problems is the trade works
A-Ram and J-Jones for A-Rod and probable throw-in, A-Rod would probably demand an extension of another year for the no-trade, (and one of those options).

This opens 3B, and the Cubs do have the stable to go after the true star in Cabrera. They could live with Pagan in RF (if they trade the mortgage for Cabrera). Next year they could even put Pitt's Wilson in LF if Lee and Soriano are too expensive.

The money is there, the question is whether it all can be worked out.

Bill Veeck planted Ivy during 'The Depression', and over time the Ivy Walls has become the most distinct symbol of Wrigley Field.

by Ivy Walls on Jul 2, 2006 9:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The good news is...
The A-Rod rumor gives us more to work with in the offseason.

But I will say that if we did land A-Rod and he moved back to shortstop, which he should, 3rd base once more becomes a swirling vortex of doom.

The free agent market for third base is flat out awful.

Honestly I'd rather keep A-Rod at third, keep Cedeno at shortstop, and look to bring in someone like Luis Castillo for second base (if the Twins decline his 6M option, which they probably will).

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They may have the money..
..for Cabrera but HE IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE!!!  This site is the only place that I have seen or heard anyone speak of Cabrera going anywhere!!! The Marlins are rebuilding their team (very well so far) and Cabrera (along with Willis) are the nucleus of this team.  If Florida traded those two at this point they may as well just give away everyone else and close the doors.  You don't need a new stadium if you don't have a team.  M. CABRERA WILL BE STAYING IN FLORIDA for the years to come.
vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 3, 2006 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Note of reality: Marlins avg'g 1/2 last year
About 11,000 and actually falling, they might not reach 1M in attendance Willis will command at least $8M in arbitration and Miquel will go from $400K to 6-8M in arbitration.

There is little point to keep them under these finances, the idea is get a stable of players without arbitration/FA pending.

Bill Veeck planted Ivy during 'The Depression', and over time the Ivy Walls has become the most distinct symbol of Wrigley Field.

by Ivy Walls on Jul 3, 2006 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
The Marlins until disolved will have to rely on good young talent with a few cheap, decent veterans. There is no way they will be able to keep either one of those players, so they'll be offered to the highest bidder. Hopefully the Marlins remember some of the young arms they've pilfered from the cubs(Nolasco,Willis) and they comeback to the feeding trough.
cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Jul 3, 2006 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arod just hit a three run homer
to go along with his grand slam and double earlier tonight.  If we were going to make this move, should have pulled the trigger this afternoon.
Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue.

by Cubby4life3 on Jul 2, 2006 10:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

my goodness...
wow, that is really crazy. what a game for him. something tells me the nyy fans are going to be feeling a little different about him now...

here's hoping he chokes in the stretch or the postseason.

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 2, 2006 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thoughts on A-Rod
I might even like A-Rod again if he was traded to the Cubs. But to the debate about A-Rod being in decline or being good in the clutch: I don't think one sub-standard year by a guy in his prime can automatically be proof that he's in decline. And his performance in the past week aside, he's widely regarded as someone who doesn't come through in the clutch. There's a reason there were all those "Mr. March" jokes during the WBC.

If the Cubs do trade for him, Hendry better have a damn good idea of what he's going to do after he gets here. If you get A-Rod, you have to build a contender for next year. With the current makeup of this club, that's going to take a lot of work.

"If it takes forever."

by JDay on Jul 2, 2006 11:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Honestly...the A-Rod talk is exciting...
But I don't think he's necessary to contend for next year.

A starting pitcher or two, Carlos Lee, and we'll be much much better.

by felixfelicis on Jul 2, 2006 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like
you're saying Hendry didn't put that bad a team together.

Translation: You were full of BS during your defense of Baker and his job performance this season.

by Matt Allison on Jul 3, 2006 2:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clutch Hitting
FYI - Here's a Yankees fan that makes a case for A-Rod being a better clutch hitter than Derek Jeter:

http://sportszilla.blogspot.com/2006/06/derek-and-alexs-mythical-journey.html

by Tarzan Joe on Jul 3, 2006 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Clutch" hitting
Whether or not one believes that A-Rod can hit in the clutch depends on whether or not one believes that such a thing as "clutch" hitting exists in the first place.

This site has a ton of articles that argue both sides.  FWIF, Bill James concludes that there is no such thing as clutch hitting.

I tend to agree.

by gravedigger on Jul 3, 2006 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
Clutch hitting is a product of selective memory, unreal expectations and tendency of fans to get down on a player who doesn't do it every time it's needed.  Ortiz is considered a great clutch hitter but if you look at his overall stats they say otherwise.  ARod isn't considered a great clutch hitter but if you look at the overall stats he does about what could be expected.

by pageian on Jul 3, 2006 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

more thoughts....
Saturday's game was (from at least one inside corporate source) a big wake up call to the corporate hand sitters. Hendry and McPhail know that something must be done and rather soon.

The embarrassment on national tv was an alarm. Cubs did play with enthusiasm on Sunday but they need an old fashioned shake up.

A-Rod would be that kind of skakeup. Leaving 3B open is tactical problem and if not Cabrera maybe Barrett or maybe go with Cedeno at 3B and bring up Patterson but do something.

LF is also a problem, whether it is a platoon of Pie and Murton for now. Finally Pierre, dump him. Play Pagan.

Bill Veeck planted Ivy during 'The Depression', and over time the Ivy Walls has become the most distinct symbol of Wrigley Field.

by Ivy Walls on Jul 3, 2006 10:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Place holder at third with ARam gone?
Baby, as long as Dusty's around, the Cubs have a third baseman and his name is Neifi!  And he's signed for next year too!!!  Just pencil him into the second spot in the lineup and watch the magic happen.

by TR on Jul 3, 2006 12:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Please tell me
that wasn't your Barry White voice?  Cause that's what I heard, Barry White just told me that Neifi is going to be our starting third baseman, and he made it sound soooo good. :)

by pageian on Jul 3, 2006 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a Yankee fan
I do not see this deal happening.

The Yankees offense has scuffled with the bottom of the lineup of Phillips, Cairo, and Melky Cabrera (aside of last night). Arod is starting to heatup, and he is an integral part of the offense. I just don't see Aramis putting up numbers like A-Rod will (though he would put up good numbers).

by nyynjnnyg on Jul 3, 2006 1:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

A-Rod in The Windy City
Hi Al,

That would be a fascinating
deal..I know Chicago is A-Rods
favorite road city. He's a
Harry Caray's restaurant regular.
Even if this one doesn't get off
the ground I know a big trade will
happen before the deadline.

Cubspizza

by quarryfan on Jul 3, 2006 1:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Garbage....
no, I'm not talking about the team, but the actual garbage from Saturday. I didn't see the footage, but this must be an incredibly embarrassing spectacle for the whole nation to see. My Padres friend fan asked me about it right away. Just ridiculous.

I'm ready to see the team shaken up a little, but many of you might disagree with me about some players we should keep (Pierre is finally playing well and I think we should keep him....there, I said it). I also like Jones, I really do. He just took some time to adjust and the season was lost anyway so he's having time to really come into his own as a Cub.

I like the idea of getting CLee, ARod and Zito, with maybe Soriano thrown in. That will only cost us a couple bucks, right?

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 3, 2006 1:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i know soriano wants to go back to the al
BUT, if it only took money, could you imagine the infield of lee at first, soriano at 2nd, a-rod at short and either huff or blake at third?  cut neifi and let cedeno take over the 2b/ss super sub role?  it would be so pretty

by geetarnwhiskey on Jul 3, 2006 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Randa?
IF there is any merit to this A-Rod rumor - why not take Randa off of Pittsburgh's hands as a stop gap? Good professional guy - I know he has been injured this year, but not sure how bad.

by airweino on Jul 3, 2006 2:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Rumor growing legs
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

I wonder how far this will go.  It would be cool to see it blow up.  I can see A-Rod on the cover of the Red Eye now!

by northofwrigley on Jul 3, 2006 3:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

NOT GROWING LEGS...
It quotes this board for reporting it.  Plus mlbtraderumors is as respected as the National Enquirer.

by Chad on Jul 3, 2006 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok
I know that, but the more exposure no matter the source is "growing legs."  If we wanted to we could go all over the internet and "report" this trade rumor and it would get into a paper somewhere somehow.

by northofwrigley on Jul 3, 2006 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe...
... but they sure do get attention.

I'll repeat this: the source from which I got this information is someone I trust completely, who's not going to give me BS info just to make a splash, and who understands that the Cubs DO need to do something LIKE this to send a message that they intend to become competitive.

If it's not this deal, I'd expect them to make SOME sort of major deal by July 31.

by Al on Jul 3, 2006 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well then...
If this is true, Al, Old Style's are on me!

by Chad on Jul 3, 2006 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

your source
jim Rose doesn't count as a trusted source.  He's been in fewer locker rooms tham marriotti

by FauxChuck on Jul 3, 2006 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i just hope
you have enough respect for the posters on this board to avoid passing on any "rumors" such as this that originate from the cubs marketing department.

by tomas21 on Jul 4, 2006 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pull off the trade...
stick A-Rod at SS, Cedeno at 2nd, and sign A-Ram in the off season?!  How can you go wrong?!
"we got motherf'in snakes on our motherf'in plane!" -Samuel L. Jackson

by DTJchris on Jul 3, 2006 3:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If Aramis is traded
the 07 08 09 and 10 years of his contract would become optioned. Meaning he would not be available this off-season.  However he could then give the Yankees 1 year notice that they have to trade him and he could become a FA by May of 08'.

by cubsfan2883 on Jul 3, 2006 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FYI
Bruce Miles, on NSBB, said this trade is not happening.

by Peoria Matt on Jul 3, 2006 9:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And that means Bruce isn't in charge of deals.

Isn't NSBB the home of the Ben Grieve fan club?

by cubswin on Jul 4, 2006 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If anything the A-Rod trade rumor...
is totally worth it just for getting the focus of posts away from Neifi...

by DudeVf1 on Jul 4, 2006 12:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Stupidity but I like the deal
Who ever said to trade Pie is stupid. We would hvae to trade Jones to get A-Rod, we are not guaranteed to getEl Cabiao or Soriano in the offseason, and why trade our best prospect and 2 stars thats too much we already know what we're getting from Jones and A-Ram but Pie could and most likely be the biggest thing since sliced bread.

These are the prospects we should not trade:
Felix Pie OF- 5 tool left handed player who could hit 1st or 3rd. Projections: 35-40 HRs .300 BA 30 SB. Would Replace: Jaque Jones

Brian Dopriak 1B- D-Lee's successor. in 2 years he will be our 1st baseman. Projections: 30 HR .300 BA person. Would Replace: Derrek Lee

Sean Marshall P- Lefty with great stuff. Nuff Said. Projections: 3.00- 4.00 ERA 150- 250 Ks. Would Replace: already owns a spot on the MLB roster

Juan Mateo P- Considering how Wood and Prior preform we'll need as many starters as we can get and he is a good smart pitcher with great stuff. Projections: 3.00- 3.75 ERA 200- 250 Ks. Would replace: Greg Maddux

Carlos Marmol P- He has already shown he is a good pitcher. Projections: 3.00- 3.60 ERA 200- 250 Ks. Would Replace: Mark Prior

Ryan Harvey OF - Power hitter who can hit for average our possible left fielder if we make this deal. Projections: 35- 50 HRs .300 BA. Would Replace: either MAtt Murton or Angel Pagan

Ryan Theriot 2B- A hitter he will hit for high average and play a good D. Projections: .300 BA 2- 12 HRs. Would Replace: ?

1 Last Year
Rich Hill P- He has great stuff and can control the minors but hasn't shown he can pitch in the majors until now. Projections: (if he keeps it up) 2.50- 3.50 ERA 100- 200 Ks. Would Replace: Kerry Wood

Make the Deal just don't trade these guys.

by number1cubfan on Aug 15, 2006 2:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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