New Rumor (What else is new?)

by indytaz on Jul 21, 2006 8:58 AM CDT Comment 113 comments

According to cbssportsline.com, on the rumor mill, Boston is shopping Willy Mo Pena for some pitching and that the Cubs have contacted them about the outfielder. This is a big bat, but can he help the Cubs, and who would they have to give up to get him? I wouldnt give up a front line pitcher, but maybe a Hill type would be a good trade. Pena has been hurt this year, and would want him to be healthy before making any trade. Cubs dont need anymore injured players on the roster.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I'd give them Hill

for a less-than-healthy Wily Mo. In fact, I'd give them Hill for a less-than-healthy infield rake.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 9:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

hill

has value.

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

Hill is dominating AAA like few pitchers I've ever seen or heard about.

6W, 1L, 1.94ERA, 14G, 92.2IP, 61H, 22R, 20ER, 3HR, 20BB, 121SO

Of course, anything Hill does in AAA is meaningless, since it's already been established based on 43 innings in the majors that he is a AAAA pitcher.

"You hit your way on, you don't walk your way on" - Jim Hendry

by VS on Jul 21, 2006 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do we have to go through this AGAIN?

There is a very specific reason why he is so dominant at that level: AAA hitters can't hit his curveball.

Major league hitters lay off that curve, because it's not good enough to get them out.

This forces Hill to rely on his fastball, which:

isn't that good, and
he can't throw for strikes.

Thus, in the majors, he either walks a ton of people or, when the fastball sits there flat, it gets pounded out of the ballpark.

43 innings or 430 at the ML level, that's not going to change.

by Al on Jul 21, 2006 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The implication of your logic

is that performance at the AAA-level doesnt correlate with performace at the big league level. I, and the research on the subject, disagree with this ascertion. The way you dismiss Rich Hill has become comical in light of this performance at Iowa, which has been one of the greatest in the history of the AAA franchise.

by Santos Sorrow on Jul 21, 2006 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again?

You mean, we've talked about Rich Hill on this site before?

Huh.

by ontheuptick on Jul 21, 2006 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

al

i do not understand why you are so stubborn on this. hill has made tremendous improvements this year, especially in his control, and baseball isn't quite so simple as "AAA players can't hit his curveball, but mlb players can".

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because every time he pitches in the majors

all the batters get to go visit with DLee.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you mean

in all 40 innings he's pitched in the majors since last year when he was promoted from A ball to the bigs over the course of the season?

maybe al's right, never mind he's the best pitcher in AAA this season, lets just waive him.

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

those are the 40 innings of which I speak.

I agree that his trade value will never get any higher than it is right now. Let's move him. If he's the next Bob Gibson, you can come back and say "I told you so."

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please Jim please

Bring up Rich Hill so this discussion can end. Inquiring Cub fans want to know if he is any good. I have my doubts but at this point there is no purpose in leaving him in AAA.

by rlpete on Jul 21, 2006 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes and

go to a 9 man pen cause Hill typically guts the pen every time he starts.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

8 starts, 6 relief appearances, and

43 innings speaks volumes. They guy has been rocked and doesn't last long when he's out there.

This is just another subpar player who can't hack it just like Bobby Hill, Choi, DuBois, Cedeno, Murton. Thankfully, Dusty has put the breaks on most of those experiments pretty quick.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is true for the most part...

but Hill looked good the "punch A.J." game....until he gave up that shot.....he was locating his pitches well.....but it was over after that....

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, can't help myself

Banner: Are you the beer baron?
Comic Book Guy: Yes, but only by night. By day, I'm a mild-mannered reporter for a major Metropolitan newspaper.
Banner: Don't crack wise with me, tubby!
Comic Book Guy: Tubby? Oh yes, tubby.

Hee hee.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heck yeah....I love Simpsons' quotes..

obviously ;)

Rex Banner: What kind of pet shop play loud jazz music at 2 AM?

Moe: uh....the....best....damn pet shop in town!!

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LMAO

"Max Power
He's the man with name you'd love to touch. . .
But you musn't touch!

His name sounds good in your ear
But when you say it, you musn't fear
Cause his name can be said by anyone!"

I've been thinking of changing my username to Trent Steele.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Max Power...

great name!

Thanks, I got off the back of a blow dryer

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

big time fold. think he gave up that grand slam a few pitches later.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no

"43 innings speaks volumes"
it doesn't

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

keep agologizing

he's appeared 14 times now. if he was was worth a shit, he'd have more innings.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what is the complete list of players the

CUBS could have traded Hill for??

-Miguel Tejada
-Austin Kearns
-Alfonso Soriano
-Bobby Abreu

should I go on??? Hendry was after all those guys but wouldn't part with Hill or Pie.

Danny Bernstein is right on when he says "the only...only goal of a major league team every single season should be to win the WORLD SERIES"

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hill wouldn't have got

any of those guys.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't mean "by himself"

but you must have heard that the Rangers wouldn't trade Alfonso Soriano to the CUBS in 2004 unless it involved Rich Hill and/or Felix Pie......same with Austin Kearns....and Miguel Tejada.....

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

only one i believe

is kearns. gm's like to hype their prospects.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was all OVER the Sun Times and Tribune

a couple of summers ago (Alfonso Soriano)

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

However

without arguing the merits of Hill, it is 2006. Prospects values do go up and down.

The Cubs in 2004 were also high on Brownlie, Jones, Blasko and others.

by rlpete on Jul 21, 2006 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is all speculation....

You don't really know what he could have traded Hill for, unless you in fact are Jim Hendry.

by ontheuptick on Jul 21, 2006 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How do you know I'm not Jim Hendry?

Huh? How?

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because your name is Julie..

But I could be looking to deep into this.

by ontheuptick on Jul 21, 2006 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, I've SAID my name is Julie

I'm not very well going to sit here and tell everyone that I'm Jim Hendry. You'd all be emailng me all day long. It's bad enough that I have to sit here and look at posts from all you armchair GMs all day long. Do you people think this is fantasy baseball? That I can just go out and sign whomever I choose? That I don't get outsmarted by the likes of Theo, Billy, Brian, and (oh dear God,I can't believe I'm saying this) Kenny every day of the week?

I'm a busy man, people. I have a lot of things to evaluate.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hill

As a general rule, I just think major league hitters are up there to rattle the pitcher, work pitch counts and get a hitter's pitch. With the minors, especially the hitter's leagues like the PCL, it's all about swinging away. So a lot of pitchers with stuff are going to have success at that level as opposed to the ones with no stuff who are just shelled.

by cubz1963 on Jul 21, 2006 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is the most retarded thing I've ever

seen you post, Al.

"43 innings or 430 at the ML level, that's not going to change."

Has all the losing this season melted your brain cells? I've never seen such ridiculousness from you.

The facts are that Hill has been really good to dominant in the minors for the last 3.5 years and moved up from low A to AAA (with a couple cups of coffee in Chicago), but somehow to you he obviously has no major league future. Your logic on this enormous difference between AAA hitters and major leaguer hitters (an enormous enough of a difference that a pitcher will go from dominant in AAA to can't pitch for one of the worst teams in all of MLB) escapes me. He has a much better fastball, curveball, control, pedigree, & health history than Sean Marshall, but I don't see you spouting that Marshall is a AAAA pitcher. Cheese and Rice, Al, give the Rich Hill is never going to succeed schtick a rest. Your just making yourself look silly by continuing to repeat it over and over again.

Next thing your going to make us some bs and tell us why it's better to have Rusch or Novoa on the 25 man roster over Hill.

by Thunderclap Newman on Jul 21, 2006 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Marshall..

... is three years younger than Hill, and has shown the poise at the ML level that Hill has NEVER shown. He has bad outings and comes back from them. Hill hasn't done this.

It's not a "shtick", it's a fact.

Ask yourself this: if Hill is such a good major league prospect, on a team, as you say, as bad as this one -- why isn't he here instead of Carlos Marmol, someone who has several years' less experience?

I think that's a self-answering question.

Incidentally, it's "you're", not "your".

by Al on Jul 21, 2006 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have no idea...

where to find it, but is it a possibility that Baker and Rothschild don't like him and that's why Hendry doesn't bring him up? I remember somebody posted that on here someday.

There is no point in keeping him in Iowa. They need to send him away or play him up here. He shouldn't be playing for Iowa.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 21, 2006 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

for the spelling lesson. It's typical from someone who doesn't have anything to back up their points to attack spelling or grammar. Are you really 40+ years old?

As for the self answering question, I have no idea why he is not up with the big club. There is no logical reason for it when you have "gems" like Novoa and Rusch on the 25 man roster. If the front office and field mgmt were worth a s%&#, I may have to rethink my position. But they haven't exactly garnered a reputation for great decision making or great talent evaluating skills now have they? And so what if Hill is a little old to be prospect? If it's possible that he is ready to contribute, why not get him up to Chicago during this disaster of a season to find out. Does Hendry still need to evaluate dogcrap like Rusch and Novoa?

FWIW - This offseason you constantly argued that Cedeno turned a corner with his performance in AAA last year. But the same logic cannot apply to Hill, right? As for poise, that & 50 cents will get you the Sun Times tomorrow morning. Hey Marshall is a decent prospect and continue to give him innings, just get Hill up here also.

by Thunderclap Newman on Jul 21, 2006 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's had two 23 year olds pass him.

The Cubs are giving shots to the kids, and Hill has a lot more trade value as a starter. Hence they're keeping him in Iowa cause he's getting his ass handed to him by Marmol & Marshall. If they deal off Maddux, probably another guy younger than him, Guzman, gets the nod.

I love how some people give up on Pie, who's 21, but are fascinated w/ Hill.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you'd look at the comment

you'll see I'm advocating bringing Hill up and either demoting Novoa or cutting Rusch. Nowhere did I mention demoting Marshall or Marmol and where the Pie stuff came from I'll never know.

by Thunderclap Newman on Jul 21, 2006 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cedeno...

... is 23 years old. That said, he hasn't shown much at the major league level, either.

Hill's shown me enough to tell me that he can't perform at the major league level. If he still has trade value, by all means, trade him to get someone who CAN.

by Al on Jul 21, 2006 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

at least you've gone from "it's a fact" that Hill is a AAAA player to "Hill's shown me enough to tell me that he can't perform at the major league level". It's obviously not a fact, so I guess we agree on that.

FWIW, Hill is working on his 4th minor league season now, while Cedeno completed his 6th season in the Cubs system last year. This disaster of a season would be a great time to get Hill 10 straight starts. The team has nothing to lose by doing this.

by Thunderclap Newman on Jul 21, 2006 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hill

"He has bad outings and comes back from them. Hill hasn't done this."
Hill hasn't been offered the opportunity to have bad outings and come back from them.

"why isn't he here instead of Carlos Marmol, someone who has several years' less experience"

great question. add that one to "why is neifi still here?", "why is rusch still here?", "why are theriot/fotenot in the minors?", "why hasn't hendry traded anyone yet?", "why is novoa in the majors and aardsma/weurtz in the minors?", "why didn't we sign another starter in the off-season?", "why did we wait 5 weeks to sign a backup first baseman after lee got hurt?", "why didn't they shut down kerry wood in august of last year?", "why did neifi and rusch get big contracts in the first place?", "why don't we have someone in right to take the atbats against lefties?", "why did we spend the first few months of the season with 5 second baseman?", why didn't they just offer furcal the money he wanted, 5/40, when he first asked for it?", "why didn't jim insist that latroy be a setup man and dempster a closer?", "why was corey batting first and neifi second all year last year".

I'm saying that I wouldn't use this organizations inaction on Hill as evidence of anything. We're not the tightest run ship.

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where's the long line

lining up for his services??

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The line was pretty long in the off-season

when a lot of teams asked about him and Hendry labeled him as one of his untouchables.

And Al, no. If you watch his starts, you'll notice a couple of things.

He uses his fastball more than his curveball, which ends up hurting him. Wether this is what Barrett and Rothschild tell him to do , I'm not sure. But his curveball is perfectly capable of getting MLB hitters out.
Like all Cub pitchers under Rothschild, Hill starts to nibble on the corners once he reaches the majors. He does not do this in the minors.

This season is shot, so might as well give him a chance. Or trade him, that might the best option. I mean, Rothschild has no confidence in him, so how is he going to learn anything?

"You hit your way on, you don't walk your way on" - Jim Hendry

by VS on Jul 21, 2006 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

then

he looked like shit this year. only people buying into the hype are the cubs prospect lovers.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

re

only people buying into the hype are the cubs prospect lovers

Then a whole lot of baseball executives must be "cubs prospect lovers" since again, a lot of them asked about him in the off-season.

"You hit your way on, you don't walk your way on" - Jim Hendry

by VS on Jul 21, 2006 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, and...

... it's too bad Hendry didn't accomodate one of them.

Maybe he still will before the end of this month.

by Al on Jul 21, 2006 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

re

Maybe he still will before the end of this month.

Indeed, this way his new team might actually give him a shot.

"You hit your way on, you don't walk your way on" - Jim Hendry

by VS on Jul 21, 2006 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good

then we can watch him stink for someone else for a change.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh-Huh

Damn, they've gotten Julie as well...

"You hit your way on, you don't walk your way on" - Jim Hendry

by VS on Jul 21, 2006 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

I really really don't like Hill.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

read again

i'm talking about now. not last offseason.

where's the line?

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you really think

that the 19 innings he has pitched this season are enough for anybody who wanted him in the off-season change their mind?

But whatever, you are obviously way too biased to change your opinion and I'm not going to bother anymore.

"You hit your way on, you don't walk your way on" - Jim Hendry

by VS on Jul 21, 2006 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pot meet kettle.

Yes. He didn't impress in 4 starts.

But don't take your head out of the sand. Maybe he'll get a win by the time he's 28. He just needs another 43 innings... 14 appearances... and perhaps being spotted 10 runs would help... obviously this is all baker's fault...

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're

WAY too biased on this. I'm not saying Hill is Zito or even that he will have success. I'm saying he does have value right now, and he does have the potential for success.

He has struggled in the majors, but he has also pitched differently in the majors, with poor control. He was promoted very rapidly last year (started the season in A-ball), so its very possible that he was nervous or ill-prepared for the bigs.

He did make the rotoworld top 150 prospect list, not that rotoworld is the authority.

He has significant trade value right now. He also has the potential for success in the majors if given a long leash and good instruction--not guaranteed success, but not guaranteed failure either. To write him off seems ignorant to me.

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Significant trave value eh

If so, I think Hendry would have dealt him for a bat when Lee was out.

Hendry's big error was not trading Hill in the offseason when he had good value. If Hill & Murton for Soriano could have been done, and Hendry passed, he should be fired on the spot.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

CubFaninCA comin' through again!!!

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if

hill had value in the off-season he certainly hasn't lost it. he's averaging around 7 innings per start, has an ERA under 2, a whip of 0.87, and a k:bb ration of 6:1.
he started the AAA all-star game.

he has the lowest whip and ERA in the PCL. nobody in the international league has a better whip either. the only person in the aaa international league with a lower era is jeremy sowers, who was the 6th pick in the draft in 2004.

that's fairly spectacular, and despite getting roughed up in his brief callup this year, his value hasn't dropped from the off-season. you might want to be a little more open-minded about him.

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't you think that other GM's have seen

what he HAS done in the bigs? I'm sure that they are as weary to trade for him as Hendry is to recall him.

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes

they've probably seen seen him get jerked around, given a short leash, and work with a piss-poor coaching staff.

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's just it.

Even if he is loaded with potential, do you really think THIS coaching staff is going to be able to develop him? I don't. Looks like as long as Dusty and his boys are in charge, we are going to have to shoot for fully-developed major leaguers who don't need to be "brought along" by the coachings staff.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Julie...

Number One: This ritual is called...Crossing the Desert.

Number One: And this, we call the Unblinking Eye.

Homer: Hey...have you ever noticed that the Crossing the Desert is a lot like the Unblinking Eye. And it's exactly like the Wreck of the Hesperus.

Number One: And now, the final ordeal: the Paddling of the Swollen Ass...With Paddles.

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

asdfkl

Who controls the British Crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs cavefish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

Marshall and Marmol are hanging in there. I think it's more of a matter of Hill just being better suited as a #5 starter or middle reliver on a small market team. He's not big market material.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

but that seems like a better reason to get rid of the coaching staff, which they probably will, than hill. and the failure of our coaching staff to bring him along shouldn't reduce hill's value ot that of a rake.

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't think I had to say this

but I was kidding about the rake.

Like I said before

tomas21=grumpy

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if hill had all this value,,,

don't you think hendry would have dealt him to pittsburgh for craig wilson a few months ago?? rumor was that hendry inquired about wilson...

Hill's Triple A numbers are great, but his suckage at the major league level this year puts a damper on the number, especially considering he sucked at the ML level last year too.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i guess

i'll stop talking to you about this since you are being fairly close-minded on the issue.

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's rich..

You have shown no evidence of teams currently beating down Hendry's door for Hill. You're only evidence is from last offseason and the facts have changed since then...

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the only facts that have changed

are the fact that he has improved his minor league numbers significantly since then and has not been given a real shot at the majors yet

by kylejo on Jul 21, 2006 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who you want to shutdown?

Marmol or Marshall? Z, Prior & Maddux aren't going anywhere. He's had his shot and Marshall & Marmol have blown by him...

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and

if hendry didn't want to bring in soriano to play the outfield, he wouldn't be the only gm. soriano is having a career year offensively and defensively, and not many people saw it coming. add to that we had like 11 second basemen, soriano WAS refusing to play outfield, and murton had been progressing very well until this year.

you know what they say about hindsight...

should epstein be fired for trading arroyo?

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would Arroyo have done this well

In the AL East???

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

keep in mind

arroyo is pitching against pujols and c lee in the central, so its not a basket of peaches for this guy, stl and the brew crew have pretty potent offenses, granted the bucos and our boys in blue probably even that out

by kylejo on Jul 21, 2006 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very true....

But Toronto, Boston and New York have better line ups 1-9 (+ DH) you could even make a case for the D-Rays and Orioles.......amongst those two teams you've got Jorge Cantu, Miguel Tejada, Brian Roberts, Ramon Hernandez, Rocco Baldelli, Carl Crawford, Julio Lugo, etc....

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

they should do it NOW....

If Hill blossoms into a great pitcher for Boston when he's 30....more power to him......he won't pitch against us.....unless the CUBS go to the WS...and how many times has that happened since 1945?.........Wily Mo would be a GREAT pick up.....but it better not cost us landing Carlos Lee if it were to happen.

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 9:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hear, hear.

n/t

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I imagine

they have someone better in their system than Rich Hill.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 10:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

They do.

His name is Craig Hansen, and he's likely going to be recalled soon.

by Al on Jul 21, 2006 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't he...

supposed to be their future closer?

Papelbon is doing great, but I think he's going to end up in the rotation next year.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 21, 2006 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh and...

isn't Craig already up in the majors pitching in relief?

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 21, 2006 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is

and he's not doing so hot

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7683

by colossus on Jul 21, 2006 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just threw Hill out there

I'm not sure who they have talked about. The blurb just metioned pitching. But, other than Hill, I'm not sure who they would be talking about. I dont think that the Cubs would ship either of the M & M boys out and there is nobody else in the miniors thats tearing it up like Hill is at AAA. So, I'm thinking its Hill and a throw in possibly for Pena, which I would do. That gets an outfielder with pop. That would also maybe get things going as far as Jones. his stock will never be higher, and I cant see him in any long laid out plans.

First Boston, then the White Sox, its now the Cubs turn.

by indytaz on Jul 21, 2006 10:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Give Murton

back to em too... and don't let the door hit ya Matt.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

um, ok dusty hendry

your right, lets not clog those bases, ship em murton

by kylejo on Jul 21, 2006 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

pitching prospects

gallager, randy wells, and donald veal are all doing very well, this sites got a lot of info, especially on wells http://topcubsprospects.blogspot.com//

by kylejo on Jul 21, 2006 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

start reshuffling....

Trade for Pena, off load Maddux & Rusch...

Then turnaround and trade for Hillenbrand & Hinske, trade; Jay's probably would be interested in A. Jones plus Niven and a combination of Novoa or Wuertz or Pignatiello.

Turnaround and then trade Will Mo Pena, Theriot & prospect (Guzman or R. Hill) for Abreu.

Now you have acquired Hillenbrand, Abreu & Hinske.

NYY wants a 3B, LH-RF'er, pitching, another bat and prospects for A-Rod. Trade Hillenbrand, Abreu, Williamson, Guzman or R. Hill (see above) and Walker for Rodriquez (Walker is a DH/PH).

Cubs finish with A-Rodriquez at SS, Cedeno at 2B, Hinske in RF, A-Ramirez at 3B, Murton-LF, Pierre-CF, Pagan as the 4th OF, recall Bynum as 2B/5th-OF for now. Keeps open Pie to come up in CF or platoon in LF and allows an open spot for e-Patterson to platoon with Cedeno at 2B.

Off season Cubs probably trade for Torri Hunter in CF and move Pie to RF and have Hinske platoon with Murton in LF. With A-Rod at SS Cubs have D-Lee, A-Ram and Barrett as the 4 big sticks.

Now what to do on the mound?

Bill Veeck planted Ivy during 'The Depression', and over time the Ivy Walls has become the most distinct symbol of Wrigley Field.

by Ivy Walls on Jul 21, 2006 10:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

wow...

...either that was well thought out or you did some sort of choose your own adventure offseason there. Possible, but I'd like to see the odds.

by slink on Jul 21, 2006 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

why don't we

just see if mlb will allow us to stop the season, dissolve all the rosters, then have a draft where we can choose any active mlb players. hopefully we get a good draft slot, and we can get a couple of the guys you mentioned.

i only bring this up because this approach hasn't been discussed before, so it might be worth a call to bud. ivy, maybe you can call bob ley and see if he can get the ball rolling?

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're grumpy today

Cheer up, it's Friday!

;)

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're right!

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're grumpy today

Cheer up, it's Friday!

;)

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I didn't meant to post that twice

but I think you can't say "it's Friday" too many times.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're right!

lol

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One More Chance

I think Hill should get one more shot this year in the bigs. Al may very well be correct, but my take on Hill was that he was afraid when he got to the bigs and he pitched that way. I still think back to the way he mowed down Thome, Konerko, and Dye right after he gave up the grand slam to Iguchi in his final game. I think he had lost some of that fear after the grand slam and went right after those guys. For the first time, I think he "got it" and I was very sad when they sent him down. They've got nothing left to lose this year and they might as well bring him up. ALl they can do is improve his value. What's really there left to hurt?

by NO100 on Jul 21, 2006 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Or...

...they could hurt his trade value by proving he really, really can't pitch in the bigs.

by daubs on Jul 21, 2006 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

By how much?

It's not like he's considered a top ten prospect now. Is he even in the top 100 anymore?

by NO100 on Jul 21, 2006 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is my point.

I want to know how much his trade value would drop if he played.

Anyway, if they don't play him now they should trade him. Many teams are soo desperate for pitching, so maybe Hendry can show teams Hill's beautiful AAA stats.

If we don't have to give Marmol and Marshall time off yet, send Roberto Novoa down and put Hill in the bullpen(but he actually has to pitch. Not every 10 days, Dusty). I seriously don't see the point in keeping him in Iowa. He shouldn't be there.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 21, 2006 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know...

...that's a good question. Maybe it's worth the risk of bringing him up again. If he even does well then the Cubs have solved a question mark in their rotation or have a valuable chip to bring to the bargaining table. If he does poorly, then does anything really change? Maybe not.

Then again, I think you're spot on about the need for starting pitching around the league right now. It might be a good time to show off those stellar AAA stats and let some other team figure out if he's got what it takes. He really doesn't have anything else to prove in Iowa.

by daubs on Jul 21, 2006 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather see Guzman.

With Z, Prior, Marmol & Marshall, there's no room for Hill.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 21, 2006 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not Guzman

In the prior two years (2004 and 2005) he pitched a total of 66 innings. Last year, he pitched a whole 18 innings in Rookie and A ball. He hasn't had a healthy season since 2002. He is not ready for the major leagues. Leave him in AAA.

by rlpete on Jul 21, 2006 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

id rather see guzman as well

his numbers from 06 are actually pretty decent

by kylejo on Jul 21, 2006 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No room

I agree that there isnt much room for Hill. Consider, you have Big Z, Prior, Marmol, Marshall. There is four starters all in their mid 20"s at the oldest. That leaves one spot in the rotation that you would like to have a trusted vet. Granted, Prior has to start staying healthy for a whole season, but he is only 25, the age where some pitchers are just now getting their start in the majors and he has 3 years in. So, were does that leave Hill, I say trade him and someone else that will never make it for Pena and that gives us three guys with 30+ homer power.

First Boston, then the White Sox, its now the Cubs turn.

by indytaz on Jul 21, 2006 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think

we have to stop including Prior when listing our future rotation. I just don't find him to be reliable at all. He's been on the DL 7 times since 2003. SEVEN TIMES.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 21, 2006 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm hoping we

trade Prior this month.

by colossus on Jul 21, 2006 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think

pena would be a good return for hill. he's give us production which could be close to that of carlos lee, and when you factor in the dramatic difference in salaries and pena's much younger age, it would be a good move. it would also free up money to sign expensive players (read=zito) in the off-season, and would allow us to keep another draft pick.
further, murton could be moved into the 4th OF/platoon in right against lefties.
We would still need to upgrade at second or short to have adequate offense. Signing lugo or giles might do that.

by tomas21 on Jul 21, 2006 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shit, right now I would trade Mark Prior for

Wily Mo Pena........I think it would be a fair deal to trade the "Once upon a time...." Prior for Vinny Castilla......whoops, I guess he's available anyway ;)

by TheBeerBaron on Jul 21, 2006 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No Mo for Me

Pena is not an everyday OF. Look at his numbers in Cincy when he was close to every day. In 2005, 311 AB's, .254 Avg, .304 OBP, 116 K's and 20 walks. People complain about Jacque Jones swinging at everything. Pena is worse. I'll stick with Jones who is better and pass on Pena. The Cubs don't need 2 of them. Pitchers learn how to get him out. His average in Boston will go down as people learn about him ala Corey Patterson's hot start.

In any case, I doubt Boston wants Hill for Pena. They are in a pennant race, I can't see them wanting to throw an unproved lefty into an August pennant race.

by rlpete on Jul 21, 2006 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok i know it might be a stretch

but if hansen has dissapointed, and marshall has done well, possibly marshall, hill and williamson for hansen and willy mo?

by kylejo on Jul 21, 2006 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm ready to give up

on Prior. Like I said, he is only 25. Yes he has been hurt, some injuries you wonder (achilles, shoulder, elbow) other injuries unfortunatly have happened with in the game, hard shot of the arm, flipping over second baseman (never a good thing). But he still has time to be that dominant pitcher we have dreamed of. Now, I would stop expecting him to be the number 1 or 2 pitcher until he proves this. But penciling in Prior as 4 or 5, not a bad way to go.

First Boston, then the White Sox, its now the Cubs turn.

by indytaz on Jul 21, 2006 12:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I meant

to say "I'm not ready to give up on Prior"

First Boston, then the White Sox, its now the Cubs turn.

by indytaz on Jul 21, 2006 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pena is just what Dusty would want

I am a Cubs fan in Ohio, I have seen a lot of Wily Mo in Cincinnati, he has horrible plate discipline. He strikes out almost as much as Adam Dunn. Do we really need another Hacker???

The definition of insanity is repeating the same actions over and over and expecting a different result.

by sandbergfan on Jul 21, 2006 1:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

this place makes my head

want to explode sometimes. there are a lot of guys on this team who shouldn't be here by the 43 inning rule. So a team 20 back has a better chance (and by chance i mean "its not over, keep going to games" chance rather than the much larger mathematical chance)to turn it around than a pitcher who is (gasp) 26? Not saying he can or can't, but the goal of the minor leagues is to develop talent, he has maxed out his usage in AAA, give him some innings to either learn something or get cut. We don't need a gym class superstar holding up a roster spot for some of our even worse prospects. But poor Rich is too pale to be one of Dusty's Guys, so we'll see whatt hey do with them. I ike how comments about Rothschild and Baker not being able to handle him are apparently non factors, Lord knows they have never fucked up a player.

by mike bornemann on Jul 21, 2006 10:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs