Assuming we can't get Lee, Soriano, Zito, Mulder etc...

by LuisSalazar on Jul 25, 2006 11:07 PM CDT Comment 58 comments

Assuming, as past free agent markets have dictated, that we are unable to land one of the 'big guys' mentioned above.....and assuming Pierre is re-signed and J.J. stays in Right (of which I hope they can trade him for something soon!)....our needs would be a 1. power hitting outfielder 2. run-producing second baseman 3. possible conisderation of upgrade at SS and 4. probably TWO starting pitchers (assuming Z, Prior, and Marshall or Marmol can stick).

That said, thinking reasonable, there are still some potential FA's out there who would seem to fit in here well if given the chance. For instance:

2B: Luis Castillo would be a Great fit, and unlikely to break the bank

OF: Jermaine Dye (unless the Sox pick up his option), Jose Guillen (if he can stay healthy), Garciapara (?any convincing to try the outfield again?), Trot Nixon (if given the opportunity to play everyday, might show a little more pop), or even Moises Alou for a one year shot

SS: Lugo, Counsell (may have some left in the tank)

SP: Gil Meche, Mike Mussina (doubtful to see his Yankee option picked up at that price), Mark Redman, Cory Lidle

Sure it'd be great to get one of the big guys, but the alternatives may not be too far off(with the exception of the OF opening with Carlos Lee) and certainly cheaper.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I would like

Lugo and Castillo if Zito/Lee can't or won't be signed. I'd say NO to Mulder, Lidle, Redman, Counsel. Guillen has attitude problems, apparently, and we don't need any more of that. Jermaine Dye is having a good year at the right time, maybe not the best option. Mussina might benefit from switching leagues, but probably won't be terribly cheap (7-8 million??) and if you're going to spend good money on a starter someone of his age is risky. Meche doesn't excite me in any way.

I would go after Lugo and Castillo and Lee on the market and maybe attempt to trade for a starter, a good one. Who, I don't know. Singing someone off of the Suppan/Lidle/Redman heap may be necessary but it won't make us a decidedly better team, it should be a last resort. And if we really think we have to resort to that then I probably wouldn't bother. Maybe Hendry can find a salary dump and get lucky again, someone durable and good, who isn't prohibitevly expensive.

by pageian on Jul 25, 2006 11:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Also

I don't think Alou will be coming back. Plus, given his age and durability would we even want him? Will the man even be able to play outfield next year, what is he now 60 years old?

Nixon has had durability issues in the past too but I would feel better about signing him than I felt about signing Jones. I think he can hit a little bit, I just wouldn't want to count on him for a whole season. And I hate to say it but weren't his best seasons at the height of the steroid craze? I don't know, I'm just saying....

by pageian on Jul 25, 2006 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

who would want alou?!!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

Moises Alou, at the age of 40, is posting a better OPS this season than his carrer average OPS. He still have an obp=.368 and slg=.547 this season. Who wouldn't want that?! Durability is somewhat of an issue, but when he actually does step on the field, he plays pretty damn well. That's more than you can say for most of our players. He may not be worth $8M / year but he'd certainly be a valuable pick up for $2M / year loaded with incentives.

So we're stuck in a slump, it's only been a century...

by Old Style Heavy on Jul 26, 2006 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I said

I didn't think he'd come back. And I don't think the Cubs really want to go down that road again. And I was refering to his age and future probability of him playing well, I didn't say anything about how he's playing this year. Go back through history and look at all the old guys like him that fell off a cliff, that's going to happen to Alou someday. He also shouldn't be considered more than a stopgap player and not a full-time outfielder. I think he'd be better off going to the AL. He's still in great shape physically, but he's always had breakdowns and given his age which absolutely is a factor and can't be ignored, I don't think he's someone we should look at.

by pageian on Jul 26, 2006 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A team that is

8 million games under .500 and in 5th place has zero business having any interest in acquiring an outfielder who is older than Moses. Sorry, but a big no to Moises. I already lived through him pulling a Fred McGriff and sleep walking during his Cub tenure. I don't need to see that old man snoring in left field or on the basepads anymore.

by Mike63 on Jul 26, 2006 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

amen

i like alou, but the 2001 alou, not the 2006 version.

by TerryS on Jul 26, 2006 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dye...

...is known for being the clutch hitter on that team (RE: 2005 playoffs) and isn't going anywhere.

by dtpollitt on Jul 25, 2006 11:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Define

clutch hitting? ARod isn't known for being a clutch hitter, but he's hitting something like .320 with risp. Big Papi is known for being a clutch hitter, but he doesn't do as well. Selective memory plays a part here, as well as how the person mentioning the magical "clutch hitting" wants to view the player he's talking about.

I think it has more to do with talent than being able to mysteriously raise your level of play, and if you look at the overall stats you'll get a better understanding of the talent level. Players absolutely do choke or rise to the occassion, just not every time they are in a "clutch" situation. Do it once when people are watching and you are clutch, fail to come through when people are watching and you aren't. Truth be damned.

by pageian on Jul 26, 2006 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dye's going nowhere.

Hendry's #1 priority will be replacing Maddux & I think he'll make a strong run @ Mulder, who's price shouldn't be too extreme due to his health concerns. Unfortunately, even if they get Mulder, the rotation's still short, as they have to count on Prior & two kids.

The LF choices are probably Floyd & maybe Nixon.

Adam Kennedy is my bet for 2b.

I think they'll invest in a right handed hitter who can platoon w/ Jones, as well. Perhaps put a couple million into that.

Altogether, the $20-25 million or so Hendry has to spend will be invested into 4-5 guys. The Trib & McFail will be smiling ear to ear. God forbid that money goes towards Lee & Zito. Quallity doesn't win!

by CubFaninCA on Jul 26, 2006 12:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Jose Cruz Jr.

tears apart lefthanded pitching. His ops versus lefties is .955 this year, and was .889 from 03-05.

He has a team option for $4.5 next year, which I highly doubt LA exercises. Their outfield is loaded. He makes $2.9 million this year. The Cubs may be able to get him for around $3 million. Am pretty sure he still has a good glove. He won the Gold Glove in 2003.

I'll take a .900+ ops from RF for $8 million.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 26, 2006 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You've GOT To Be Kidding

Jose Cruz, Jr.? Is that so he can make his quest to be on every major league team? There's a reason he's always available. He's not that good, no matter what your stats say.

by BeerCub on Jul 26, 2006 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

alternatives?

would be nice if murton could play anywhere besides lf. maybe they can throw neifi in rf. he hits lefties. lol

by CubFaninCA on Jul 26, 2006 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,

tell your statistics to shut up!! (wish I could remember where that quote came from)

by davidalanu on Jul 26, 2006 6:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Quote.....

....to the best of my 48 year old recollection, originated with Charles Shulz in Peanuts. I don't recall specifically which character said it to another, but it went something like having Lucy reciting all the bad information regarding their baseball team and a forlorn Charlie Brown repied "tell your statistics to shut up". Later, in a chapter of Ball Four that contain his own stats, Jim Bouton used the phrase for the title of the chapter.

by BeerCub on Jul 26, 2006 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah right

he's no Jacque Jones is he? Wait a minute, yeah he is, he just from the opposite side. His point was to get Jose Cruz Jr and platoon him with Jones, thus making one good right fielder out of two.

by pageian on Jul 26, 2006 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What Part Of....

....Jones' contract suggests that he was given all that money to platoon? Why do people keep insisting on bringing it up? It's never gonna happen, especially with a guy like Cruz who peaked 3-5 years ago and has never been consistent from either side of the plate.

by BeerCub on Jul 26, 2006 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because...

... if the Cubs got a good platoon partner for him (and Murton might be one), Jones could put up a .900+ OPS playing 120 games, batting 420 times, and look like a superstar -- i.e. that he's actually worth the money.

by Al on Jul 26, 2006 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Murton is that guy...

...although I shutter to think of what his defensive abilities in Right field would be.. Still, his punishing of lefties (all while not having Jock in the lineup) would make up for it..

by ontheuptick on Jul 26, 2006 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No Murton in right

Both Jim Hendry and Dusty Baker have publicly said that Matt Murton does not possess the ability to play right field. Given what I have seen of his play in left field, I agree. Part of Murton's problem (other than having zero discenrible strengths to his offensive game) is that he is restricted to one position on the playing field.

by Mike63 on Jul 26, 2006 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is no way

that Murton can play RF. If the Pierzynski/Barrett deal taught us anything it's that Murton can't make the throws from left field and if he can't make the throws from left, he sure as heck can't make them from right.

Murton in RF is a horrible, horrible idea.

by NO100 on Jul 26, 2006 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The solution is getting Jones

out of rightfield and putting the platoon where it should be, left field. Issue of course being, that in recent years RF has become one of the most scarce positions in baseball to fill. (Why Abreu is worth every penny his plus RF arm and on base skills make)

by Santos Sorrow on Jul 26, 2006 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, and

I'm pretty sure his D's still pretty good.

If they sign Floyd, I'd much prefer seeing Cruz in LF in the 8th & 9th, with the Cubs trying to hold a lead. Floyd lumbers around in LF.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 26, 2006 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was the worst argument I've ever read.

n/t

by Santos Sorrow on Jul 26, 2006 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then You Don't Read Your Own Stuff

by BeerCub on Jul 26, 2006 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ding Ding Ding...

...we have a winner!

by ontheuptick on Jul 26, 2006 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just threw up

sorry ... GO CUBBIES

What does not kill you makes you stronger.

by Pa on Jul 26, 2006 1:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

First things first...

before we can even consider all these "what ifs" about FA pickups, we need to make sure that

ARam does not opt out of his deal and leave us looking for a 3B as well.
Zambrano is locked up long term or dealt for 3-4 major league ready prospects as suggested by someone, I forget who, elsewhere (I hope not that later though, as Z provides us our only excitment at all).
Pierre is locked up for a 2 year deal with an option for a 3rd year to keep us from having no leadoff man again. I think his recent play is more in line with what we could expect next season.

If we do not do all of the above, then we better start over like Florida or Cleveland now. Deal them all now...Zambrano, Prior, Ramirez, Pierre, and maybe even Lee. Blow it up and go young.

But again, there has been too much resting on the laurels of a magical 2003 and expecting a repeat performance, and that my friends, as has been argued here far too often is a top-down problem that can only be solved with new leadership (i.e. owners, GM, manager, coaches)...

by airweino on Jul 26, 2006 12:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

About Castillo...

... he turns 31 in December, is having a mediocre offensive season (.277/.333/.364) and I suspect would be one of those "three years too late" signings.

If the Cubs look elsewhere for a 2B, Marcus Giles would be the guy I'd want.

by Al on Jul 26, 2006 9:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No to Castillo

I'm tired of spray hitters on this team. Castillo will just following in the line of Pierre, Perez, Cedeno, Pagan, Goodwin, etc. If we can't get someone with a little pop just try Cedeno there if necessary. An aging Castillo can't be that much better than Ronny.

by rlpete on Jul 26, 2006 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

FORGET - Cedeno!!!

He is and NEVER was a prospect. He has no business on any winning teams roster, he LITERALLY is the the least valuable REGULAR player in the MLB.

by Santos Sorrow on Jul 26, 2006 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

Augie Cedeno makes Neifi Perez look like Derek Jeter. Cedeno is brutally bad.

by Mike63 on Jul 26, 2006 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would like Giles too

but isn't Castillo more likely to be available? I heard a rumor that the Braves would shop him but it was just that, a rumor. Plus, isn't it a little curious (here I go again) that he and his brother have both lost power? Brian I can understand a little, he's getting older and playing in the Grand Canyon. Marcus, and it's really just this year that he's tailed off, should still be doing what he was doing. Still he's a good obp guy and that's fine with me for second base. Maybe this year is an abberation or maybe the conspiracy theorists need to look into it.

by pageian on Jul 26, 2006 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Giles is exactly the type of guy....

...that we would need. But, what's his contract situation? He's not a FA yet is he?

by ontheuptick on Jul 26, 2006 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't think so

Could be wrong... I think the Braves dropped his name a few times or some other team inquired about him and weren't told no right away. Seems like they may be open to dealing him. I wonder why, he's not really expensive even for them and he's put up good numbers.

by pageian on Jul 26, 2006 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly my thoughts....

I figured he's in his arbitration years, I just don't know why they'd trade him either...

Maybe they'd like some fabulous pitching prospects (hello Rich Hill and JK Ryu)..

by ontheuptick on Jul 26, 2006 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

FA in 2007

Think he's getting about $4 mil. this season.

I'll bet it takes 2 good prospects to get him. Not sure the Braves would consider any of the Cubs guys, not named Pie, as good.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 26, 2006 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah but...

the Braves need relievers maybe they would be dumb enough to take a Novoa/Wuertz package for him.

by Lablover on Jul 26, 2006 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Braves aren't dumb tho

especially when it comes to evaluating young talent. They're light years ahead of the Cubs.

by CubFaninCA on Jul 26, 2006 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Random Thoughts

In the right situation, Adam Kennedy is a great 2Bman. Giles sure spends a lot of time on the DL. Julio Lugo is a must. Pierre can't play CF, but I'd be interested in him in left and a power hitting CF like Hunter. With the way Minn is playing without Hunter, I have a hard time believing they will re-up him at $12M. Castillo is trending downwards and he's only getting older. Dye is playing the best baseball of his career and he will never play like this again, IMHO. Dye's an injury waiting to happen.

by NO100 on Jul 26, 2006 9:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

In the right situation

I would be a great second baseman. I don't see anything about our team next year that would be the right situation for having Adam Kennedy at second base. If you're going to get him you might as well play Theriot or Cedano there, wouldn't make much difference and you'd save money.

by pageian on Jul 26, 2006 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously...

The Riot = Adam Kennedy - 2mil per year

by ontheuptick on Jul 26, 2006 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

There's no way to even begin to measure the difference Kennedy would bring to the line up versus Theriot.

by BeerCub on Jul 26, 2006 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well then please educate us...

..on the greatness of Adam Kennedy.

by ontheuptick on Jul 26, 2006 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Read The Post Below,,,,,

.....that was already in place and try not to put words in my mouth. Who said great?

by BeerCub on Jul 26, 2006 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kennedy is a bad player

however he does seem like a Cub-kind of guy, in a Jeff Blauser sort of way.

by Santos Sorrow on Jul 26, 2006 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do You Really Follow Baseball?

by BeerCub on Jul 26, 2006 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

re

Adam Kennedy

Career: .279/.331/.398/.729
2006: .264/.317/.373/.690

He is not a .280 hitter nor does he steal 20 bases anymore as the post below states. He's also dead last in the AL in Range Factor and near the bottom in Zone Rating.

"You hit your way on, you don't walk your way on" - Jim Hendry

by VS on Jul 26, 2006 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can you field at a Gold Glove level?

If you can, then I say you should try out. Adam Kennedy is an outstanding defensive 2b and he's one of those guys that seems to do all the little things right. He can hit .280, steal 20 bases, move runners along, and play great defense.

He's by no means a superstar, but he's a fine player that will more than hold his own and be a contributor in multiple parts of the game.

by NO100 on Jul 26, 2006 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rebuttal

A. Julio Lugo is likely destined to the Toronto Blue Jays who invariably will sign him to a long-term deal after giving away top prospects to get him. The Blue Jays are no longer allergic to spending money.

B. Marcus Giles is one of Bobby Cox's favorite players. With the departure of Rafael Furcal, Giles has been asked to be leadoff man this year and has not taken well to the role. I'd be surprised if the Braves wave goodbye to Giles.

C. Adam Kennedy is classic Cub move, therefore I think he stands the best chance of becoming a Cub with respect to the names being bandied about. Kennedy is Mark Grudzielanek Lite. Still, that is major upgrade over what we have right now.

D. My hope for shortstop is Cesar Izturis. An infield of Ramirez, Izturis, Kennedy and Lee is pretty decent, and a big upgrade defensively.

E. I think Cliff Floyd will be the main target for left field.

Pierre - CF
Kennedy - 2nd
Lee - 1st
Floyd - LF
Ramirez - 3rd
Jones - RF
Barrett - Cat
Izturis - SS

Matt Murton as the fourth outfielder who sees decent playing time.

The key to the offseason will be how Hendry addresses the starting rotation.

by Mike63 on Jul 26, 2006 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still do not see...

... the infatuation with Izturis. Basically, he's a bit better fielding Ronny Cedeno. Or a younger Neifi.

Set your sights a little higher, please. And don't keep saying "classic Cub move", because they HAVE TO do better.

by Al on Jul 26, 2006 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To Tell The Truth....

....I think you're undervaluing Izturis by more than a little bit. There were two main reasons the Dodges signed Furcal. One, they really didn't think Izturis would bounce back from surgery like he has, and two, Colletti just wanted to make a statement on arriving in L.A. Otherwise, they've loved Izturis for a few years now here. Mike63's infield looks pretty solid to me. Having Izturis and Kennedy there would assure that Ramirez improves even more, as he wouldn't have to cover as much ground, and I guarantee each guy in that infield would know which base to throw to in any given situation, something the Cubs don't have now and couldn't say for a certainty they'd have in the future if the infield contained either Cedeno or Theriot.

by BeerCub on Jul 26, 2006 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But having Said That....

....the Izturis with even a bigger upside is Maicier. I'd grab him to play short and them forget about th position. He's playing out of position at third right now for the Angels and doing very well there. Given all the prospects the Angels have at short and the need for a power hitting thirdbaseman though, Maicier is likely destined to always be a utility guy with the Angels.

by BeerCub on Jul 26, 2006 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cesar Izturis

is the closest thing to Omar Vizquel in his prime (and dare I say Ozzie Smith) that I have seen play shortstop in a long time. Izturis is a magician in the field. And if you look at his offensive game, it doesn't suck too badly. Keep in mind also that it took Vizquel and Smith until they were almost 30 for their offensive games to come together. I'm not saying Izturis is going to become a great offensive player, but boy o' boy do I drool about him at shortstop in a Cub uniform.

by Mike63 on Jul 26, 2006 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't suck too badly?

Izturis' offensive game is pretty much what you'd get with Neifi playing fulltime -- and I'm sure you'd bitch constantly about that.

The Cubs need better hitters. Forget this guy.

by Al on Jul 26, 2006 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Adam Kennedy

He could provide the clubhouse leadership a la Karros and Damian Miller that's been so lacking in the Cubs clubhouse. He's one of those type of guys right now for the Angels, Darin Erstad being the other. He sometimes rubs people the wrong way, but that's what happens when a young talented player gets called out publicly after not listening privately. Kennedy's only 30, and is solid defensively, having worked on it for years. The Angels always bat him ninth. He has a natural uppercut swing, resulting in a lot of pop ups, but he's played on a World Series winner and several Division winners with the Angels. The emergence of Howie Kendrick has hastened his imminent departure from the Angels, otherwise they might still keep him.

by BeerCub on Jul 26, 2006 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice summary

but I'm at a loss to understand how playing in the world series and playoffs offsets the fact that he hits a lot of popups? You said he hit's a lot of popups, but he's played on a world series winner and serveral division winners... So, did the Angels get to the world series as a result of all the popups he hits? Or did they get there because they had other, better players on the team?

Unquantifiable intangibles aside, Adam Kennedy isn't a good player. We can do better.

by pageian on Jul 26, 2006 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs