Vote Liriano, Vote Often

by 08Cubs on Jul 5, 2006 10:03 PM CDT Comment 115 comments

Francisco Liriano is ahead of AJ Pierzynski (who is in second place) in the balloting for the last spot on the AL All Star Team.

Seems like a good opportunity to stuff the ballot box here .... The voting ends Thursday at 6.

AL: Liriano, A.J. Pierzynski of the White Sox, Travis Hafner of the Indians, Justin Verlander of the Tigers and Ramon Hernandez of the Orioles.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Good job

I like your thinking. As if a punch to the face isn't enough, now we can make sure he doesn't make the team.

...But he DOES have a ring, doesn't he. Hmmm...

by dtpollitt on Jul 5, 2006 10:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

All Star Vote

The fact that Liriano and Hafner were left off of the team are just further indication that the entire all-star event is complete nonsense. Even if Liriano is a rookie, he's pitched better than almost anyone in the league. And Hafner fits what should be the definition of all-star completely.

That said, I applaud the efforts to keep AJP off the roster.

by gravedigger on Jul 5, 2006 10:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The selection of Mark Redman...

... to the team is a joke.

Maybe this will FINALLY get the silly "one player for every team" rule eliminated.

The Royals don't really deserve an All-Star (though Grudzielanek, DeJesus and Sanders are having decent years), and Redman is an absolutely horrid selection.

by Al on Jul 6, 2006 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re

I happen to think the one-player-per-team rule is good for the ASG. Without it, the squads would be even more dominated by major market teams and the pets of the game managers. OG probably would have named his entire team if he could have gotten away with it. And he's hardly the first.

The ASG is a marketing exercise. It's an exhibition. If the two fans of the TBDR aren't guaranteed representation, they're less likely to tune in. Now, they at least get to ask, "Who's our player?" I know the last thing I would want to see is the BankSox playing the NL.

If something's going to be changed, it needs to be how the squads are chosen. Rather than encouraging online ballot stuffing by fans voting for historical performances, the teams should be chosen by their peers at the end of June. Take the top two position players, 3 catchers, 9 pitchers, and fill it out with a rep from every team. NL teams vote for the NL squad, AL the same.

Now, who should be the KCR's representative is a good question. But the ASG should include one.

Visit The Digital Gazette

by Jed Taylor on Jul 6, 2006 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Redman, yuck...

However, be aware that the Cubs have the same number of losses as the Royals and one win more than them.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like the one rep from each team rule,

because every fan should be able to watch the game with some memorable face.

The ludicrous method they use for fan voting is the problem. Allowing 15 or 25 ballots per fan amplifies the effect big market teams have in running away with this thing (is it a coincidence that a player from Chicago--AL--and a player from the Dodgers--NL--won the runoffs? These two cities have huge metropolitan populations). Liriano didn't have much of a chance, even if the Twins had tried to run a larger campaign for him.

by jcub on Jul 7, 2006 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even Better

It's a little like crossing over to vote in the other party's primary. I texted a buddy of mine at the Cell tonight and asked if Ozzie had put him on the All Star team yet.

By the way, here is the direct link to the voting:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/all_star/y2006/fv/index.html

I'm Chris and I approved this message.

by 08Cubs on Jul 5, 2006 10:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

NICE

Good call on texting your buddy...I think all my White Sox fan friends made the team, too. I like it so much I'm going to steal it from you.

by dtpollitt on Jul 6, 2006 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And, while you're at it, Vote NOMAR

I know he wasn't a Cub for long, and his time as a Cub isn't particularly memorable as a good period for the club, but I'd still like to see him make the team.

Besides, he deserves to be there. He's having a great year, and his success is one of the only bright spots for me in this dismal '06 season....

by SuperContext on Jul 5, 2006 10:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it's a toughy

To me, Liriano, Hafner and Verlander are all right there together. Personally, I voted for Hafner since he plays every day.

"If it takes forever."

by JDay on Jul 5, 2006 11:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hafner

It was a damn shame he wasn't elected by the fans, and it was just outright ridiculous that Guillen went with his own guy who, while having a good season, has inferior numbers to Hafner.

Wow, I've really been on an All Star soapbox today.

by gravedigger on Jul 6, 2006 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing new.

This happens every year. Look at the All-Star line-ups when Joey T. brought all his Yankee players.

by brookswashere on Jul 6, 2006 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was going to post this, too

I've maxed out my voting on two different email adresses and have enlisted other family members to do the same.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 6, 2006 9:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why are you all concerned with AJ and the Sox?

n/t

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 9:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, it's just AJ, really

I've hated him since he was a Twin. Can't help it. My hatred of AJ is just a part of me, like curly hair and a love of books. It's just what I do.

To be fair, the summer before last, I tried like crazy to get Konerko on the AS team, because I thought he belonged there. I was telling my Sox fan friends to vote for him. Of course, they were way to apathetic at the time. Now, they are leading the charge to get AJ on there.

Freakin' fair weather fans. . . .

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 6, 2006 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair weather fans?

BAH!

But it's hard not to love the World Champions.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't really care...

about AJ and I don't even hate him.

I just want Liriano to get on the team.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 6, 2006 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's reasonable...

Liriano no doubt deserves to be on the AL team. I'm sure Guillen would have taken Liriano over Mark Redmon (sp?), if he could have done so.

BTW how do the Twins look now choosing Mauer instead of Prior and then trading AJ for Boof Bonser, Francisco Liriano & Joe Nathan.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If only...

they hadn't let Big Papi go like that. The change did help Ortiz though.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 6, 2006 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even harder

to love your team when it sucks.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whether or not...

When the Cubs went on a couple of winning streaks, I noticed more people wearing Cubs gear. And there were even more sporting their Cubs regalia in '03.

Fans are always more evident when their team in doing well. For example, I'm a fan of the Bulls and Bears but honestly only if they are doing well.

This "fair weather fan" put-down by some Cubbie fans is a new variation on an old theme, put-down the Sox and Sox fans. And as usual the put-downs center on popularity/attendance issues.

I heard this crap from some Cubbie fans last weekend when I was out of town on business. The guys arguement was that Sox fans know more about the Cubbies record than the Sox. Then Mr. Cubbie fan went on to cite stats on Sox attendance.

In this encounter, I did not put-down the Cubbies. In fact I said that I enjoy going to Cubbie games on occasion. This Cubbie fan was so incensed about Sox fans who talk crap to him that he couldn't help but talk crap with me on the mere fact that I'm a Sox fan.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What bugs me

is that all these people who never ever went to a single game when the Sox stunk, are suddenly season ticket holders. My friends, who said things like, "why would I want to go watch a team this bad?" are suddenly the biggest Sox fans around. Heck, the Sox were 10 games in first place and STILL couldn't sell our the park. THAT's what bugs me.

If the Cubs ever do win in my lifetime, at least I'll be able to say that I was here all along.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 6, 2006 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Money...

I don't feel it's my right to determine how people should spend their money. If people want to buy tickets for a lousy team, fine. If they choose not to, then that's fine with me too.

There was a period of time when I did not go to Sox games. Even now though I go when it fits in with my life, my life does not center on attending games. Further, I rarely wear Sox stuff and don't own any "World Champion" stuff. Does this make me less of a fan?

The attendance, fair weather fan arguements, etc. IMHO are simply fodder for those who hate already.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Au contraire

I think attendance is the determining factor in "fair weather fan-ness." If you never supported the team before, and decide to start supporting them after they win a WS, isn't that the definition of "fair weather fan?"

But whatever.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 6, 2006 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would say that a WS championship

would qualify as "fair weather" to be living in, yes Julie. I believe you're right.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seize on this...

...fair weather fan stuff.

Do the Sox have fair weather fans? Yes.

IF the Cubs ever won a World Championship would they have fair weather fans? Yes.

IMHO that's the very nature of things. I don't think the Sox are any worse than other teams.

Take the Indians for example. Look how they draw now. Were the Indians fans of the 90's fair weather? Perhaps. But IMHO the only ones who care are critics of the team, and perhaps team owners.

IMO Cub fans don't care about fair weather Sox fans. It's simply fodder for their envy and hatred.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dead wrong....

the Sox fans who stayed away were smart. I wish more Cubs fans would do the same. I truly believe the 40K plus that flock to Wrigley are nuts. It pains me to say that as a Cubs fan. Why continue to spend money on a bad product?

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 6, 2006 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because it is what we love.

n/t

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know....

but it does not force TribCo to think outside of the box.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 6, 2006 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yes, the Trib

To be honest with you, I just don't have enough time or energy to worry about them, what they do with their money, etc. I will change what I can, but I'll pick my battles wisely - "big enough to matter, small enough to win".

I hear a lot of chatter about people's distaste in TribCo, management, etc. Yet, outside of boycott, I don't really hear much of anyone actually trying to do anything about the changes they would like to see. It's like that saying about a critic being a man who knows the way, but can't drive the car.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Silly, silly silly.

You know, when people seriously believe there are differences that matter based on what team you cheer for, what color someone's skin is, what product choice someone chooses (indie rock vs. rap, whatever), religion, sexual orientation, etc., I get nervous.

People are people. And they are different, I know and understand that, but the endless debates on what is and who is "better" and "worse" is just sophomoric.

I understand that some people think Muslims are evil, or the evangelical Christian right, or black people, or Mexicans, or Sox fans are white trash johnny-come-latelys, or Cubs fans are yuppies more interested in the beer and the atmosphere than the game.

But who cares. Let's just let people be people.

My rant.

NLBallClub

by NLBallClub on Jul 6, 2006 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

HERE! HERE!

N/T

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There, There!

It's hear, hear - like "I hear ya!"

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sox fans

are better than the garbage that compiles the Reds fans where I live, I have to admit.

There's always a couple bad apples, but for the most part Cubs fans have been raised to be loyal to their team.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Grammar police

"to apathetic" = "too apathetic"

I hate it when I don't proofread.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 6, 2006 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

"I've hated him since he was a Twin. Can't help it. My hatred of AJ is just a part of me, like curly hair and a love of books. It's just what I do."

What is it about how AJ plays the game that you don't like? AJ is probably not someone I'd choose to befriend, but the guy is a winner. IF AJ were a Cubbie catcher, Cubbie fans would embrace him.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 9:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

AJ

would never be a Cub.

AJ is a grade A douchebag and really, there is nothing you can say that can dispute that.

By your own reasoning, if AJ were on another team, you'd hate him like the rest of the rational world.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, he's right.

He's the guy you love to hate if he's on the other team, but if he's YOUR guy, you love him. Sox fans DESPISED him when he was on the Twins.

When Lenny Dykstra was playing, Cub fans loved to hate him because of his antics playing, and the fact that (at least for a while) he was so good.

If Dykstra had been on the Cubs, we would love him.

by Al on Jul 6, 2006 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

I honestly would take A.J. over Michael Barrett.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 6, 2006 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except that

until now, word is that even the guys on AJP's own teams couldn't stand him. Remember when he was calling out Giants' pitchers to opposing teams DURING the game?

Klassy.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 6, 2006 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Inside the lines...

"Word is that even the guys on AJP's own teams couldn't stand him."

Please provide proof. I've never seen substantive proof that the Twins couldn't stand AJ.

"Remember when he was calling out Giants' pitchers to opposing teams DURING the game?"

Please provide proof. I don't remember ever hearing this one. Sound spurious to me.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ask

and ye shall receive:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4875331/

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 6, 2006 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Teams equal Tomko and the Giants?

You said that teams (plural) couldn't stand AJ. I know AJ had issues with Brett Tomko and he is the main one responsible for that article.

When you say that teamS couldn't stand AJ, considering that until the Sox he'd only played on two teams, then that is quite a bold statement. So far though everything I've read said that AJ had problems in SF, mainly with one guy, Tomko. Not that he's been hated by teamS including the Twins.

BTW Tomko is no longer with the Giants either...

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And

from Wikipedia:

A May 2006 issue of Sports Illustrated featured a survey taken among 470 baseball players about what player they would most like to see get beaned. Pierzynski received eighteen percent of the vote, which was higher than any other player. Fourty-two percent of those surveyed in the AL Central Division (which the White Sox play in) voted for Pierzynski.

And, from GQ:

Google the phrase clubhouse cancer and the ﬁrst two results will be stories about Chicago White Sox catcher A. J. Pierzynski. Teammates and members of the media use those words and others--unprofessional, immature, arrogant, aloof--to describe him. His baseball misdemeanors are legion: chirping at the opposition, bitterly contesting balls and strikes (very stupid for a catcher, who must win goodwill for his pitcher), and venting his frustrations on opposing ﬁrst basemen. "He doesn't have a lot of baseball etiquette," says one ex-teammate. "He'll deliberately step on your foot at ﬁrst base, then say, `Man, I didn't mean to do that!' "

The most telling of the many, many (seriously, you wouldn't believe how willing people were to talk about this guy) Pierzynski anecdotes we heard took place during spring training in 2004. Pierzynski, crouched behind the plate, took a pitch to the groin. Rushing to his aid, trainer Stan Conte asked him how he felt. "Like this!" Pierzynski grunted, then savagely kneed Conte in the balls.

"You just want to choke him," says the ex-teammate, who has also played against him. "You want your pitcher to hit him in the head.

http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_4103&pageNum=2

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 6, 2006 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You love those reports...

Conte gets kneed in the nuts on a field and only one person sees it.

Fact is, I agree with Al, "No, (DRC) right. He's the guy you love to hate if he's on the other team, but if he's YOUR guy, you love him. Sox fans DESPISED him when he was on the Twins."

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One more thing.

What people who cite the "most like to see get beaned" survey often fail to mention is that every player on the White Sox voted for AJ as a joke. Clearly, this is what manipulated the data.

by brookswashere on Jul 6, 2006 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clearly,

you are easily manipulated.

Yes, I'm sure that they did it as a joke. Keep telling yourself that....

And I'm sure that the PR department at the Sox org. just let them do that? Oh yeah, that's a great idea! Go ahead! Make it look like there's dissension on the team!! Rock on!

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/players/05/24/poll.0523/index.html

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Sox fans (or fans of team X) are not some other species folks, they are your neighbors, friends, and, there but-for-the-grace-of-god, you. Much akin to religion, most are fans of the team based on geography or heritage. I know I am just stating the obvious here, and I think rivalries (sp) and good-natured "trash talking" back and forth are all part of the fun.

But to seriously debate who is a "better fan" or whatever (and this debate comes up on the site semi-regularly) is just silly... way too subjective and in the end, who cares anyway? Let's say the Cubs fans are the best in the world and Sox fans are the worst in the world.

Shrug. Ok, and...? I dont get it.

NLBallClub

by NLBallClub on Jul 6, 2006 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hard to argue...

... because it's not based on fact.

How can you prove that AJ would "never be a Cub?"

How can you prove that AJ as a baseball player is a "grade A douchebag?"

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I suppose

your belief that everything you believe should be supported by fact is the main reason you are not a Cubs fan.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Simple questions...

Just asked you to support your statement. You made a bold statement that AJ would never be a Cub. Seems to me that you'd have some support to make that declaration.

Why am I a Sox fan? My father was a Sox fan. I don't understand what you're trying to say. That seems like a tangent or an attempt to divert the debate.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Being asked

to "prove" that someone is a douchebag is probablyl the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Just laughable.

But, if you'd like to give him this quiz so we can prove ONCE AND FOR ALL(!!!!) that AJ is a douchebag, be my guest.

http://www.insidejoke.tv/200103/douchebagquiz.asp

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tap dancer...

Ok I see your point but care to provide support for your declaration for "AJ never being a Cub?"

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It seems the Cubs have always

tended to choose attitude over aptitude.

I can't see the Cubs EVER signing AJ.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beanball Ben Christensen (sp?)

n/t

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No moral high ground ...

...for the Cubs.

I missed the King of Attitude...bad attitude that is, Sammy Sosa.

"It seems the Cubs have always tended to choose attitude over aptitude."

Sammy was despised by Mark Grace, Ryne Sandberg and other Cubs players IIRC. (Interestingly, Sandberg didn't disclose this until Sammy was off the team.) Sammy was the very definition of the me first attitude. However, Sammy was traded for by the Cubs and then became the centerpiece of the team on the field and in their marketing.

Sammy was all things Cubs in many respects and Cub management and marketing embraced and promoted Sammy's me first attitude, as did many Cub fans. The Cubs as an organization continued in this respect until Sammy's skills eroded and baseball initiated a ban on Performance Enhancing Drugs. I'm fairly certain Sammy's skills eroding and the drug testing are related. Yet either way the case of Sammy Sosa clearly disproves your assertion that, "It seems the Cubs have always tended to choose attitude over aptitude."

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They got rid of sammy

when he pissed them off.

They got rid of Farnsworth when it was clear he was out of his mind (yes... it took them longer than the rest of us).

The only point you are proving is that you are a little kooky when it comes to your man-crush on AJ. Let it go, dude. He's not good enough for you.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There you go again...

...with the personal digs.

As I stated, I don't believe I'd like AJ. He's not someone I'd want as a friend. But from what I'VE OBSERVED, not relying on rumor, he's a damn good ballplayer.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It wasn't a personal dig

It was a joke. I made a funny. We were making the same joke about the SS on the opposing team at our softball game last night. Now THERE is a damn fine ballplayer.

There's baseball, there's tough baseball, and then there's just dirty baseball. I can't respect a guy who is such an arse that he pisses off fans, teammates, coaches as well as opposing players. He's just socially defunct. I truly believe that if he didn't have baseball, he would have no functional place in society.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Support...

Of course you could simply state reasons why you believe a person is a "douchebag." For example, if I were to say Barrett is a hostile moron, I could point out his:

Sucker punching AJ after a clean play.
Verbally assaulting Roberts.
Verbally assaulting Oswalt.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Friend,

let it go man. You're not going to make me feel any differently about him.

Is there not enough drama for you over at your Sox site?

I see you've posted on this and other Cubs sites, an Indians site, and two separate Cardinals sites - if not more. So tell me, do you just like to argue? If you don't like people not liking the Sox, stick with your own kind. You'll be free from all of us!

But more realistically, at leasts choose to do a little less quarreling and a little more understanding.

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you can't support your point...

...attack the person.

That seems to be your M.O.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I support her point..

..that point being that you should stay on your own site. IMO I think that it is cowardly to get on another teams blog site and trash their players or bloggers. But then again, you seem to think that AJP is not a jerk... so this all makes perfect sense.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

It's not cowardly because no one is trying to hide. And the "trashing of players and bloggers" is only done when warranted. This user didn't start any of these arguments...the subject lend to themselves. Actually, it's everyone else using ad hominem attacks and faulty logic that I find "cowardly".

by brookswashere on Jul 6, 2006 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the Cubs and White Sox..

..are playing on two different channels. I listen to the Cubs announcers, why??? because I am a Cubs fan (and Hawk is an idiot). If I wanted to hear the opinions of a White Sox fan then I would log in to the South Side Sox, not Bleed Cubbie Blue.

I fancy this to inviting someone over to my house. If it is in need of straightening up and I offer my hospitality and a cold beer to them, I don't expect them to say that my house is a mess, even though I would know that it is.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hawk IS an idiot.

Sorry to interrupt... I just can't say that enough. Friggin' idiot...

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will say this though...

...over here they have played more Sox games than most other teams. If nothing else he makes me laugh, not intentionally by saying anything funny....you know, the kind of laughing where you say to yourself, "I can't believe he just said that." And over here, sometimes there isn't much to laugh about.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree to this as well

I'm not sure if I'd call him an "idiot" but he is most certainly a homer and can prattle ad infinitum about the most inane subjects. That or be totally silent for three innings. To his credit, no one knows the White Sox team better then him -- outside of Ozzie and Kenny Williams. I'm sure Cub fans too can agree it's always a pain to hear the ESPN or FOX guys pretend like they know all about the Cubs. Still, I'll welcome the day when old age gently but firmly clips the Hawk's wings.

by brookswashere on Jul 6, 2006 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

You do make a good point; I too wouldn't want someone coming to my house just to make a mess. However, if things were already dirty and I was happy living in my filth, I'd want someone to come over and tell me to clean the damn place up.

That said, while I don't promote any sort of trolling or starting fights just to start fights, I'm always welcome to open, honest, and sincere criticism. If something isn't right, say so, don't just sit there and live with it. But don't make crummy arguments just to get the last word in.

Moreover, if someone says something you know is wrong or have good reason to disagree with, let your point be heard. Do you really want to be in an environment with only one opinion? That's a dangerous place to be. Just look at today's media.

by brookswashere on Jul 6, 2006 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry..

are you seriously implying that you are here to "clean our house"?

Dude - your gang member army of baseball players won the World Series. Get over it. It does not make you, a fan, in charge of all that is good baseball.

I'll just wait for you guys to be so talkative when your team implodes, falls apart, and Ozzie gets locked up for a hate crime.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Get your own damn mop

No ma'am, I'm not trying to clean this house. To big a task for one man.

As for my "gang member army of baseball players" perhaps we are mistaken. Do you have me pegged as a Sox fan? Not sure how you got that idea.

by brookswashere on Jul 6, 2006 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just so you know..

..I am a neat freak...that was only a hypothetical. And I wasn't talking about you either. To further back up my analogy..I have no problem being hospitable (don't know if I spelled that right) to visitors. I just don't want someone to be rude in response to hospitality. Welcome friend.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who was rude?

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 6, 2006 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What, where have I...

... trash (Cub) players or bloggers?

Please provide an example of how I've done this in this discussion or if you can't find that (as I believe) then show where I've done that in the past.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude...

is this what you do all day? Ask people for proof on things?

Yawn, I've grown bored of you.

Ignoring troll as of..... now.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You maam...

...are my favorite person of the day. Your wit today has made a pretty crappy day over here not be as bad. You have made me laugh. If I could, I would buy you a drink.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Silly me...

How silly of me to ask people to provide substance to their statements.

How silly of me to ask for examples of what I've been accused.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe

people are bored of giving you examples because when they have been provided in the past, for example multiple player stories of things aj has done, detailing that multiple people from multiple teams dont like him--you pretend like its not good enough...i jsut think its funny that you ahve nothing better to do all day than sit in a cubs blog....HA if i was sitting in a cardinals blog all day i think id crawl into a hole and contemplate my existence

by kylejo on Jul 6, 2006 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Point missed...

"maybe people are bored of giving you examples because when they have been provided in the past, for example multiple player stories of things aj has done, detailing that multiple people from multiple teams dont like him--you pretend like its not good enough..."

There is no denying that people don't like AJ. I don't believe that I've debated that.

Here is what I took issue with:

"Except that until now, word is that even the guys on AJP's own teams couldn't stand him."

The proof that has been provided is that a couple guys on the Giants did not like him. I have not contested that, in fact I like how that worked out.

What I contested was the assertion that teams, such as the Twins, could not stand AJ.

NOT ONE PERSON HAS POSTED A SINGLE THING TO SUPPORT THAT ASSERTION.

Should I accept it because "Julie" said it's so? Apparently some here find it offensive to asked to support their assertions. Interestingly, Al and others here have repeatedly asked that I support my points, which I have provided...and then there was silence.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can someone please find the link

to the article where a manager (Francona?) said that every player in the league was going to send Barrett a thank you card? I can't find it.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 6, 2006 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now stop it already...

.."1) "During a Giants exhibition game last spring, Pierzynski took a shot to his, shall we say, private parts. Trainer Stan Conte rushed to the scene, placed his hands on Pierzynski's shoulders in a reassuring way, and asked how it felt. "Like this," said Pierzynski, viciously delivering a knee to Conte's groin. It was a real test of professionalism for the enraged Conte, who vowed to ignore Pierzynski for the rest of the season until Conte realized how that would look." (Source: SF Chronicle)

White Sox GM Kenny Williams on A.J.: "We just have to remind him sometimes, 'Hey, A.J., this is the big leagues. Don't make fun of hitters after they strike out.'"
(from 2004) "The latest incident reportedly occurred before Wednesday's game against the Atlanta Braves, when two players confirmed to the Tribune that Pierzynski ignored starting pitcher Brett Tomko's request to go over opposing hitters. Instead, the players said, Pierzynski resumed playing cards for another 20 minutes."
"...according to two Giants players, the Padres' Phil Nevin said Pierzynski was criticizing (his own) pitchers while Nevin was at the plate."

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Over again, and again...

Giants
Treatment of opposing players.
Giants
Giants

The statement of Julie was, "Word is that even the guys on AJP's own teams couldn't stand him."

These oft repeated statements are repetitions of the same thing and do not prove that his own teamS 'can't stand him.'

From what I see it's the Giants (well at least two) and opposing teams (as evidenced by the KW comment) that hate him.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You ask for proof...

...and I give you proof, she gives you proof, everyone gives you proof. The White Sox GM wasn't referring to him being a SF Giant. You are on this site for one reason. To argue with Cub fans. That makes you sir.....an a*h*$!!

You are like my son when he was 3....why?why?why?why?why? I am tired of you (hand waving you away)!

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If I say the same thing 5 times...

I don't doubt that a few Giants players did not like AJ. Posting the same quotes from Giants players from different articles does NOTHING to prove the point made that the other teams AJ has played on hate him.

"Word is that even the guys on AJP's own teams couldn't stand him."

IF you or anyone else here posted something to support the assertion I'd bow to that.

A few Giants players don't like AJ. Ok.

Opposing players don't like AJ. Ok.

So far NO ONE has posted a single thing showing that the Twins hated AJ or that Sox players hate AJ.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

YAAAAWWWWNNN!!!!

I don't care to waste my time searching the web for the comments the Twins or Sox have in regards to the douche bag. So there for I am done wasting my time right now. I only wish that I could have the time already spent back.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Checkmate

Twins manager Gardenhire has spoken well of AJ, as have many of his Twins team members. They have acknowledged that he is an irritant to opposing teams but he's fine when he's on your side. David Ortiz stuck up for AJ as well.

Sox players have said virtually the same.

That's the facts. AJ had trouble in SF. He's admitted that. But stretching that to saying AJ was hated by the Twins and/or the Sox is a reflection of the writer's mind and that alone.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I HATE TO KEEP THIS GOING...

...and like the famous tavern quote, "One more."...here I go....I am currently deployed with a unit from Minneapolis/St.Paul. I cannot disclose how many people but it is 3 digits strong, let's just say that. As you can imagine they are Twin's fans. I am not saying that any of them ever played WITH AJ, but combined they have seen a lot of games and seen him during autograph sessions and what not. Guess what DrCrawdad.... They all agree that he is a douche bag. They were all happy to see him go, and they all think that it was awesome to see him get jacked in the jaw. So if you leave your address on here we can send you a Congratulations card signed by all these Twin fans. Oh, the congratulations are in order for your upcoming wedding to your lover...By the way, will he be changing his name to AJ Crawdad?

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Congratulations to you too...

...on your nuptials to Ron Santo.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My 5 year old...

...son has better comebacks than that. Not to mention there was no response on the whole Minnesota thing nor a response on your upcoming Wedding. C'mon dude (ala Dusty), you gotta take your time and come up with something better than that (I know you are but what am I)....LMAO

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Scientific study...

You've met people who dislike AJ? SHOCKING!

Big freakin' surprise! I do not think I'd like the guy either, as I've said at least once in this discussion.

A few months ago I posted a question to Twins fans about AJ. The responses are not at all like your encounters.

http://tinyurl.com/k2c7w

As I've said, the point here, which you nor anyone else has addressed, where are the comments from teamates who hate AJ outside of San Fran?

Oh, go ahead and post the comments from San Fran for the umteenth time here, or how about begging off finding support for the comment with the, "Oh, I don't have the time..."

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't say that I don't have the time...

..my time is more valuable to me to use any more of it talking about a douch bag like AJP to a troll. Whether it is the Giants or WS or Twinkies.....it doesn't really matter. The guy is a tool, the whole knee to the nuts thing is all that needs to be said. Anybody that would do that to someone who is there to take care of them has got to be one of the biggest assholes in the world.......I am done wasting any more time in my life talking about Pierzynski....If I change my mind I will visit the CWS blogsite and talk about him there.....don't see that happenin' though!!!! Take care Doc and have fun arguing with everyone else.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This explains all...

...your hateful venom and bile.

I read your comments and then saw AJ mash a HR to give the World Champs an 11-5 lead and perhaps on their way to winning another series. Meanwhile the Cubbies lose (again). That explains your bitter envy and jealousy.

"I feel your pain..."

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not worth it, man

Just don't feed the troll.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I am tired...

...bring me another jester.....off with his head.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, not me...

"A person who enters unknown forums who bashes and insults forum members with unfounded arguments, or anyone that enters any sort of internet community for the sole purpose of harassing others is often referred to as a troll." - WIKIPEDIA

by DrCrawdad on Jul 11, 2006 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't attack you

and I am supporting my point. I still think AJ's a douche. I think that this entire diary has given you more than enough reasoning behind that.

Stop arguing about it. You act like we've insulted your mother or something.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can't take the heat...

"But more realistically, at leasts choose to do a little less quarreling and a little more understanding."

I believe I've simply taken issue with comments made. I don't believe I've been quarrlesome, nor have I used inflammatory descriptions of others. Imagine if I called someone a "douchebag."

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

crawdad

obviously you've been proved wrong seeing that multiple sites cite that aj is a d bag, anyway you want to look at it. players who play with him who know a hell of a lot more than any one of us joe-bloggers over here have soundly said he is unclassy and does things that simply only a jerk would do, cheap shots etc. lick your chops and go to a white sox site.

by kylejo on Jul 6, 2006 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where?

Have I been "proven" wrong?

I've asked for support about AJ being hated by the "teamS" he's played. So far no one has proven anything other than AJ not being liked by one or two pitchers with SF.

Regardless, AJ being smeared by a couple Giants players worked out well for the Sox. Without AJ the Sox may not have made it to nor won the World Series.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 6, 2006 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

HAHAHAHA

can you not read? it was posted that 18% of major leaguers polled want to see him beaned in the face for all of the bullshit he's pulled or caused. They said only a few inches above your face that he above and beyond won the poll, you saw what more than a few giants pitchers said in those posts up there. I think that counts for more than one team when 1 out of every 5 players wants to see him smacked in the face for kneeing peopel in the balls and stepping on peoples feet. you can argue with player testimony. aj hit .260 last year for a team that didn't score. im sure they could have gone to the ws if miguel olivo was still catcher.

by kylejo on Jul 6, 2006 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You seem to forget the facts.

Once again, I'd like to point out that the Sox stuffed the box, so-to-speak, on that survey. The majority of White Sox players voted for AJ as a joke.

by brookswashere on Jul 6, 2006 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you d bags make me smile at a boring day at work

hey brooky, i forgot your best pals with all the sox players and they let you in on their little joke, haha, i think your forgetting to read the stories that multiple people told of aj, that had nothing to do with the poll, get over your percieved "inside" info on some stupid poll

by kylejo on Jul 6, 2006 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will admit.....

that I like AJP.

He would be an upgrade over Barrett. He is the player you hate when he is on the other team, but love on yours.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 6, 2006 12:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Gasp!

I am disappointed in you, he.

she

by Sarah Hope on Jul 6, 2006 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know....

I think we look too deeply into the AJP because he is on the WS AND because of the Barrett thing. He is a good player. I love baseball. IMHO, he plays the right way.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 6, 2006 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It looks like the AL...

..will have another roster spot anyway.. I just heard that Manny Ramirez is declining to play.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 12:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ozzie already said

That spot is going to Maglio Ordonez

by brookswashere on Jul 6, 2006 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

AJ is currently ahead of Liriano

by VS on Jul 6, 2006 1:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh no.

I hope lots of people are voting for Liriano.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 6, 2006 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am

I've been voting for both Liriano and Nomar since yesterday. Nomar seems like a lock but it might be too late for the rookie.

by VS on Jul 6, 2006 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I loathe AJP as well...

...and would like to see Liriano in the ASG. But don't you think it is wrong to cast your vote more than once. I was at Shooter's North in Rockford for the whole Big Brother vote years ago. Anyway, we all went there and the (AT&T I think) phone company provided phones and lines for us to cast our vote. We got blasted by the National media for that.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 6, 2006 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs