Do I see a pattern here?

by ryno HOF 2005 on Aug 10, 2006 5:41 PM CDT Comment 22 comments

First, no extention for Dusty Baker. Second, Len and Bob (the former manager) critique Baker's moves. Third, the Cubs make ammends with former Cub and current color man for the D-Backs, Mark Grace. Gracie has been invited to the 2007 Cubs Convention. Hmmmm. Baker out, Brenly manages and Grace takes over the color job?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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That would be nice.....

n/t.

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Aug 10, 2006 5:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You're not Mike63

so no, you see no pattern and if you say that again he will throw a lightning bolt at your house and annihlate it, got it?!

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Aug 10, 2006 5:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Start fueling up

I Hate Bob Brenly bandwagon...

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt & Lee. Its Mulder, Durham & Cameron instead.

by CubFaninCA on Aug 10, 2006 5:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget the

I Think Mark Grace is a Terrible Color Man bandwagon...

by cubsbak on Aug 10, 2006 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see this happening at all...

... either the Brenly thing, or Grace.

Baker may yet be let go, but that doesn't mean you can read anything into Grace's appearance at Wrigley Field.

by Al on Aug 10, 2006 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mark Grace

Mark Grace the player: Solid, consummate professional, Crash Davis impersonator, nice career.

Mark Grace the announcer: Marginal, aging frat boy demeanor, Crash Davis impersonator.

Mark Grace the manager: Zero investment in minor league managing, zero investment in major league coaching, Crash Davis impersonator, NO NO NO NO NO.

Joe Girardi is polar opposite of Mark Grace. And there is reason why Girardi has the makings of being a very fine manager. He made the investment, he's smart and he works tirelessly at his craft. Let some other team like the D Back's take a flyer on Grace in the dugout.

by Mike63 on Aug 10, 2006 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was someone suggesting that

Grace be made manager in this thread?

Go Cubbies!

by NC Cubs Fan on Aug 11, 2006 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

didn't read below

yes they did. I'm an idiot. (is it okay under the guidelines to call yourself an idiot?)

Go Cubbies!

by NC Cubs Fan on Aug 11, 2006 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hate Brenly Bandwagon??

I personally like Brenly as Color it's Kasper that I can't stand. He's worse than Chip Caray. Kasper sounds like Kermit the Frog and rarely brings up interesting stats and doesn't seem to talk about baseball in general. His Home Run call is also the worst and lamest I've ever heard. He just babbles. He's right up there imo with the worst play by play in the game along with Charlie Steiner (the worst I've ever heard) and Hawk Harrelson.

by escapegoat on Aug 11, 2006 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I had to read this post twice...

...because I thought I must've written it myself and had forgotten. I agree with everything you say here. Kaspar is terrible, especially his home run call. Brenly is fine.

by jazzman56 on Aug 11, 2006 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have seen the movie..

..many times over and if Crash Davis was the manager I think this team would be pretty darn good. Not only did he turn aound a pitcher, but he turned the whole team around as well. Imagine what he could do with the Cubs. All we would have to do is get the writers to plug in a World Championship into the script and our 98 (99 next year) year wait will be over. Here's to the writers and Crash taking us to the promised land!!!

My Immediate Kindness Eventually Sets Up Cool Kosier Status.

by santo for prez on Aug 12, 2006 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Gracie would be a decent choice for manager

his loose mannerisms could get the job done, right?

Shades of Wrigley

by Ienpw on Aug 10, 2006 7:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I have no idea...

... how Grace would be as a manager. He has ZERO experience in coaching/management.

He couldn't be worse at it than he is at broadcasting, though.

by Al on Aug 10, 2006 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not Brenly

I don't want him to be the manager, so don't even plant the seed in Hendrys head. I think Brenly would jump all over it if Baker is shown the door, after a proper amount of time. Let's hope the proper amount of time ends up being years from now, after the Cubs have won a world series. I remember watching Brenly in action during the Diamondbacks World Series against the Yankees. True they won, but I think they won in spite of Brenly, not because of him. Seriously, remember how stubborn he was with Kim in that series, leaving him in too long and bringing him back too often, meltdown after meltdown? If Mariano Rivera hadn't coughed up the series Brenly wouldn't look nearly as good as he does now. And look how soon after the World Series he was let go by the Dbacks. If they really thought he had anything to do with winning the series they would have kept him.

I just don't think he's a good manager, no better than Baker. Making a change can be good sometimes. Making a change just to spin your wheels is pointless. I Henry is going to fire Baker just so he can hire Brenly then why bother?

by pageian on Aug 10, 2006 9:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No Brenly

People are in love with Bob Brenly the managerial candidate for odd reasons. The Diamondback players essentially committed mutiny against Brenly which forced ownership's hand. In his three years or so in the dugout he was never considered a marvelous tactician, motivator or teacher. Brenly isn't the right guy to take over a mess, or to serve as respected mentor to a bunch of young talent (e.g., Marshall, Marmol, Cedeno).

Brenly is an exceptional baseball analyst. He should stick to what he is good at and forget about the dugout.

by Mike63 on Aug 10, 2006 10:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Come again?

"The Diamondback players essentially committed mutiny against Brenly which forced ownership's hand."

And you know this how? I live in Phoenix and follow the D'Backs and I have never heard this.

In fact, Brenly was, and still is, extremely popular with the players he managed. His firing was due to the fact that the 2004 ball club was in the process of losing 111 games. It is that simple.

by jazzman56 on Aug 11, 2006 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A wildy uninformed post

Brenly isn't considered a good tactician? By whom? The man won a World Series his first year as a manager. He made numerous unconventional, yet briliant moves in the 2001 playoffs (remember bringing in Randy Johnson in Game 7, after he had started Game 6?). I have never heard Brenly criticized for his in-game mangerial skills. Nobody thinks the disaster of the 111 loss season was due to Brenly.

Not a motivator? A World Series Championship, and two playoff appearances in 3 years refute that.

Not good with yong talent? Brandon Webb and Chad Tracy both made their MLB debuts under Brenly and both have become outstanding and consistent players. Coincidence? I doubt it.

And you are dead wrong about the "near mutiny". That occured with Buck Showalter and is the reason Brenly got the job in the first place.

Showalter was a control freak and had issued a book of "rules" to each player that was as thick as the Phoenix phone book. It was ridiculous for a veteran ball club. It outlined everything from dress code and facial hair (not permitted) to how you were to wear your socks.

On Brenly's first day, he took Showalter's book of dos and don't and threw it down on the clubhouse floor. He said, "I only have 3 rules. 1-Get to the ballpark on time 2-Respect the game and 3-Have fun."

The team responded immediately and positively.

If there had been a mutiny, why then, after the debacle of 2004, did the D'Backs turn around and hire Brenly's bench coach?

by jazzman56 on Aug 11, 2006 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stickin' it to the man!!

My only response and everyone's response to saying "Brenly would be a bad manager" would be............how many managers that have been brought to the CUBS in recent years have managed a WORLD SERIES WINNER??? I don't care if you argue that he had Schilling and Johnson or that Luis Gonzalez was a juicer......he still WON!!!!!!!!!

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 11, 2006 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well golly gee

I guess Mike63 was wrong....yet again. Maybe he needs to invest in a new wheel.

I can't wait for Iowa football!!

by sue369 on Aug 12, 2006 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Flash Forward - Mark Grace as Manager in '08

Setting - June 2008. Second baseman Eric Patterson enters Manager Mark Grace's office after a game in which he has gone 0-4 with a HPB and two K's.

Grace - "Hey Patty, thanks for coming in. We have to talk."

Patterson - "Hey skip. I think I know what you are going to say. I'm going down to Iowa to work on my strike zone judgement. It's probably a good move. But I know I will be right back up here soon."

Grace, puffing a cigarrette - "Nah, kid, you aren't going anywhere. You are still here. We just got to get you a "Slumpbuster."

Patterson - "What? What is that? Some kind of drill."

Grace, chuckling - "Yeah, something like a drill. You have to go and find the homelyest, ugliest girl and "do the deed". That will wake your bat right up.

Patterson - "Ummm...."

Grace - "That's all you need, man. All you need. You'll be hitting again in no time. Plus, the trainer has plenty of penicillin."

The best advice I can give you, to drink from the loving cup: When you are wrong, just admit it. And when you are right, just shut up. -Judge Thomas Adams

by Ross on Aug 11, 2006 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

well actually

before we dismiss grace, we have to know these things:

is he a horrbile tactician?
does he alienate certian players?
is his hitting strategy outdated or useless?

if any of these are yes then we need to give him 4 mil a year.

by mike bornemann on Aug 11, 2006 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think the issue...

...with Grace is much more basic than that. What I would want to know is, does he have that burning desire to be a big league manager, or is it just something he thinks would be nice to try?

It is the same with Sandberg. It is one thing to say, yes, I would like to manage if somebody wants to hire me, and quite another to say, I want to manage and I will do whatever it takes to make that happen, including spending a few years in the minors riding buses, if necessary.

Al is absolutely right that GM's (and team owners) do not want to hire unproven manager's...even if they are popular. It is just too risky and there is too much at stake.

That is why Dusty Baker will be managing somewhere next year, whether it is in Chicago or elsewhere and most likely Grace will not.

As far as Brenly is concerned, I have the same concern about whether he has a burning desire to be a manager again. He saw the best and worst of it...a World Championship his first year and then getting fired for having the worst team in baseball when it clearly was not his fault.

I think Bob is being honest when he says he likes going home after broadcasting a ball game and being able to sleep and enjoy his family.

I'm happy for him, but that doesn't sound like somebody who is going to aggressively pursue the Cubs job if Baker is not retained. The Cubs would have to pursue him and frankly, I don't see that happening.

by jazzman56 on Aug 11, 2006 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs