Rookie Pitchers - 2007 Rotation

by john62 on Aug 17, 2006 11:33 AM CDT

Since this is an off-day I would like to start a discussion of which rookies YOU would have in the 2007 rotation. I would like the discussion to ONLY be about the rookies.

First, a few parameters: 1. Carlos Zambrano will be back and lead the rotation. 2. We have two veterans starters. These could be Prior, Wood, Miller, Zito, or anyone else. (Please do NOT turn this diary into WHO we should have or IF Prior/Wood come back; assume there are two vererans.. 3. There are TWO rookies in the 2007 rotation.

The question is which TWO rookies would YOU put in the rotation. The follow up question is would YOU be willing to trade any of the others for say a 2B/LF from Washington?

Each of the following are the names, number of games started this year for the Cubs, record and ERA:

Angel Guzman 5 0/3 6.68
Rich Hill 8 3/5 6.90
Carlos Marmol 12 5/5 5.50
Sean Marshall 19 5/8 4.98
Juan Mateo 2 1/0 3.00
Ryan O'Malley 1 1/0 0.00
Jae Kuk Ryu 1 0/0 27.00

My choices would be Mateo and Marmol based on performance so far. I wouold be willing to trade Guzman, Hill and Ryu.

Poll

Which rookies start next year?

Ryu

1 votes

Another Rookie, if there are any left

1 votes

Guzman

3 votes

Hill

25 votes

Marmol

5 votes

Marshall

39 votes

Mateo

2 votes

O'Malley

2 votes

78 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Comments

Hmm...

I would trade any and all of those pitchers in the right deal. I think people are jumping the gun on Mateo; he's only had 2 starts, correct?
If Marshall comes back from his injury, he easily has the inside track on a rotation spot next year.

I think it is too early to tell. Will Marshall come back effectively? Will a decent scouting report hurt Mateo and O'Malley? Which Hill is the real one? I'd put Marmol as the 2nd in line for a spot...

by thekansasian on Aug 17, 2006 11:36 AM CDT reply actions

I just want most of these kids to

pitch some good outings and try and move them in the offseason (to teams like Tampa Bay, Washington, Atlanta.....) Rich Hill may turn out to be a solid back end starter....who knows though, Marshall could be decent trade bait right now........either way, we need some veteran arms BAD!!!!

Hey Phillies, you already gave us Ryne Sandberg once....can we have the left handed version??

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 17, 2006 11:41 AM CDT reply actions

I am also really intrigued now by Prior

Will he actually work in the AFL or face live hitters in the winter? If he really works his tail off in the offseason, he could quite well return to form.

Note: VERY wishful thinking on TheBeerBaron's part though!!

Hey Phillies, you already gave us Ryne Sandberg once....can we have the left handed version??

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 17, 2006 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions

I hear you buddy...

My hope never seems to end with Prior.

Funny how he's done for the year but I have more hope than ever.

by theprognosticator on Aug 17, 2006 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Seriously, I do too....

I was a little excited when I read that he finally might "work out of the winter"

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt, Durham & Lee. Its Lilly, Armas Jr., Kennedy, Wood & Cruz Jr. instead.

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 17, 2006 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Without going into detail...

I would like Marshall and either Guzman/Hill (depending on who performs better for the rest of the season and ST next year, and of course assuming Gooz is actually healthy) in the rotation next season. I would, however, trade any and all of them in the right deal.

Peter: "Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits! It says, 'Oooooo!'"
Brian: - "Peter, those are Cheerios." - Family Guy

by VS on Aug 17, 2006 11:42 AM CDT reply actions

No way....

The staff already has a plethora of injured pitchers.......Guzman is more dead to me than Prior.

Hey Phillies, you already gave us Ryne Sandberg once....can we have the left handed version??

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 17, 2006 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions

Well, I was mainly going by "potential"

Gooz has much better stuff then both Marshall and Hill, but he's never healthy. I believe Marshall can be a solid #4 or so, same with Hill.

I haven't been overly impressed with Ryu, Marmol needs to work out his control problems, and I need to see more of Mateo before making a decision.

Peter: "Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits! It says, 'Oooooo!'"
Brian: - "Peter, those are Cheerios." - Family Guy

by VS on Aug 17, 2006 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Marshall and

no one else. Marshall is the only one of these that I've seen enough of to say I would consider him in the rotation next spring.

Marmol? Unless he finds some control, how can he be a rotation candidate. He belongs in AAA or long relief right now. As has been mentioned, relief may be his best long-term option anyway.

Mateo? Two starts doesn't make a prospect. Ask again in September.

The followup question answer, I would trade any of them in the right deal. Of course, I think many fans have a inflated value for some of these guys.

by rlpete on Aug 17, 2006 11:45 AM CDT reply actions

Marshall fo' sho

Who knows? Maybe Mateo and Hill will continue to impress.

Guzman and Ryu are dead to me.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Aug 17, 2006 12:01 PM CDT reply actions

And for me...

... I'd like to see Ryu get some more chances. He's had fewer than any of the others. He is also the youngest of any of them (turned 23 in May).

by Al Yellon on Aug 17, 2006 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Your choices

But what are your two choices Al?
I would like to know your thoughts at this stage of the season.

by john62 on Aug 17, 2006 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions

I like Marshall...

... as many of you do. I think he has excellent poise, and will soon learn to win when he doesn't have his best stuff.

Of the rest, I think Mateo MIGHT have the best potential, but we haven't seen enough of him yet to know. As I said, I'd like to see Ryu get more of an opportunity.

by Al Yellon on Aug 17, 2006 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions

My therapist

is still trying to get me to open up about his last performance. She says it's impeding my progress. Unfortunately, it was so traumatic that I am still unable to speak about it. We suspect PTSD.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Aug 17, 2006 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions

Re:

"He is also the youngest of any of them."

He was also the worst of any of them.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Aug 17, 2006 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions

In what...

... one relief appearance and one start? Hardly enough to judge on.

by Al Yellon on Aug 17, 2006 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Have Ryu throw balls at birds

somewhere else......I don't want to see him on the CUBS again!!

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt, Durham & Lee. Its Lilly, Armas Jr., Kennedy, Wood & Cruz Jr. instead.

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 17, 2006 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions

He apologized for that...

... did his penance, and let's move on.

by Al Yellon on Aug 17, 2006 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions

Are we talking about the same Ryu?

The one with the ERA of over 27.00 who didn't make it out of the second inning?

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Aug 17, 2006 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Ryu

only had one start in which he was bad. Rich Hill had many bad starts for the team and he was given numerous chances to redeem himself. It's too quick to lay judgement on Ryu.

by vtown754 on Aug 17, 2006 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Agreed, plus...

... Ryu is three years younger than Hill.

by Al Yellon on Aug 17, 2006 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Fine

I'll wait until his ERA hits 36.00 before I pass judgment.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Aug 17, 2006 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Well...

Pedro's ERA the other day was 54.00 in one start so a rough start happens to the best of them.

If Ryu had a career ERA of 36.00, I'd say you'd have something, but he hasn't gotten enough of an opportunity yet for us to completely right him off.

by theprognosticator on Aug 17, 2006 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Wow...

... you're almost as unforgiving on Ryu as I was on Rich Hill... ;)

The kid has made TWO appearances totalling less than three innings. Give him another shot.

by Al Yellon on Aug 17, 2006 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Marshall is probably the frontrunner right now...

and I'd have to say that I hope Rich Hill can finish the season strong and be the other one. Marmol seems to have a high ceiling, but he's really got to cut down on his walks to be effective. I'm not sure what we've got in Mateo - he's looked pretty good so far, but I'd put him behind Marmol right now. Guzman probably needs more time in AAA to catch up on lost development. One thing is for sure - Hendry needs to be on the phone this offseason trying to improve the club using some of this young pitching.

by mportsch on Aug 17, 2006 12:07 PM CDT reply actions

Ideally

they sign two pitchers, and let Guzman and Marmol work out of the pen like Zambrano did. These 2 need to learn how to throw strikes.

Marshall about the only one who has earned anything.

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt & Lee. Its Mulder, Kennedy, Wood & Cameron instead.

by CubFaninCA on Aug 17, 2006 12:15 PM CDT reply actions

I agree

with this for the most part. Guzman has the best chance of any of the rookie pitchers to be great. But, he needs to develop more. The same goes for Marmol. Marshall should be the frontrunner to start.

by vtown754 on Aug 17, 2006 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions

In Guzman's case

it's a shame. Before he started getting injured his command was supposedly exceptional. Now, not so much.

by davidalanu on Aug 17, 2006 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Time will tell

Many thoughts are scattered on this subject so here they are: I can't believe we're winning any games with a rookie staff like we have now; now that these guys have a shot, let's see who has the drive to stay here, cream will rise to the top; somebody needs to stay in AAA, you just can't get rid of them, we need quality backups throughout the season; Marshall deserves 1st shot next year and I like the Mateo/Marmol possibility. Now, if I'm going to root for someone (and yes I understand all your posts on one start and an 85 MPH fastball) I'm going with lifelong Cubs fan, self proclaimed diehard, Irish O'Malley. We need a little luck and who can't cheer for a guy named O'Malley? The guys Mother was sobbing on WGN after he won for cryin out loud!

by mrcubsfan on Aug 17, 2006 12:42 PM CDT reply actions

Marshall and Hill.....

....maybe Marmol can be put in the 'pen.

How many rooks have pitched now for us this year? Six?

Shades of the A's team 2 seasons ago where Beane went into the season with 3 rookies in the rotation. The silver lining to this season has been the >ahem< seasoning of these young arms, as it has taken a large part of the sting out of the loss of Wood, who I do consider a loss.

Besides the obvious - Go Irish.

by PopeFlick on Aug 17, 2006 1:04 PM CDT reply actions

Guzman and Hill

Probably have the most upside, or potential. Marshall is the most stable. Ryu is kind of a darkhorse but shouldn't be dismissed, we haven't seen much or him yet and I think we should give him a shot this year. Marmol and Mateo seem like bullpen and trade fodder to me, though I wouldn't be too quick to give up on either and wouldn't mind if both were still with the organization next year. O'Mally probably shouldn't be taken seriously yet as a prospect.

For the rotation I'd go with Hill, then Guzman, then Marshall, then let the rest sort themselves out as needed.

I'd be willing to trade any of them in a good deal, for a good hitter. Not all of them but maybe a couple. I think Hendry should decide (or better yet he should ask someone who might know) who the best four are and then try and get a good hitter or two for the others.

by pageian on Aug 17, 2006 2:56 PM CDT reply actions

Talent to trade

I don't see a huge free agent signing spree by Hendry, he has the flexibility to make some trades with all the young pitching. I would imagine only one of these guys is starting next year, and it will probably be Marmol based on pure stuff and health. Marshall and Guzman are still coming back from season's missed to injury. Mateo could use another year. But, if we are looking for a corner outfielder, or starting help, I see Hendry packaging away some young arms. Deals are much easier to do over the winter out of the spotlight.

by Nibbles on Aug 17, 2006 3:18 PM CDT reply actions

Maybe the bullpen...

...should choose the starting rotation for next year:)

My Immediate Kindness Eventually Sets Up Cool Kosier Status.

by santo for prez on Aug 17, 2006 8:08 PM CDT reply actions

In a way...

... they already are.

by Al Yellon on Aug 17, 2006 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions

My pitching rotation for next year

Zambrano
Big FA Signing (Zito, Schmidt, or any capable veteran)
Hill
Marshall/Prior (assuming they're healthy)
Guzman/Marmol/Mateo/Ryu (depending on Spring Training)

Hopefully, Rusch and Novoa will be gone in the long reliever role next year. I would have Mateo be a spot starter and Ryu designated to long relief. I would hope that the young guys can pitch and go through some adversity that will make them better picthers down the road.

by vtown754 on Aug 17, 2006 9:29 PM CDT reply actions

Let's move Hill

Down a little.....He's a #3??? I don't quite think so...

Zambrano
Big FA Signing (Zito, Schmidt, or any capable veteran)
Prior/Miller
Marshall/Hill (assuming they're healthy)
Guzman/Marmol/Mateo/Ryu (depending on Spring Training)

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt, Durham & Lee. Its Lilly, Armas Jr., Kennedy, Wood & Cruz Jr. instead.

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 18, 2006 8:57 AM CDT reply actions

Not quite

I agree with moving Hill down but I also want another newcomer thrown in the mix too. While I'm not excited by Lilly, Ohka or the lot, I really don't think the Cubs can count on filling 3 through 5 internally. Let's look at them:

Prior, Miller, Guzman: Possible DL candidates. Don't count on any of them especially for 25-30 starts.
Marshall: Give him one spot either #4 or #5.
Hill, Mateo, Ryu: All unproved and questionable. Maybe one becomes useful for #5.
Marmol: Belongs in the pen or AAA right now.

So as I see it, they should only plan for 2 spots to be filled internally. Marshall and one other. You also have to be ready to handle injuries. If they only get 1 FA pitcher, I think they will be too thin before the season even starts and the normal injuries start occurring.

by rlpete on Aug 18, 2006 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions

I definately agree with

Marmol: Belongs in the pen or AAA right now.

Marge, weaseling out of things is what seperates us from the rest of the animals.....except the weasel - Homer Simpson

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 18, 2006 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions

I have liked what I've seen of Marshall.

He has poise, a pretty good curve, and he's left handed. All good qualities for the Cubs rotation next year in the 4th or 5th spot. I haven't seen much of the rest except Hill, who strikes me as a Barney Fife type, no offense to Barney. I agree with Al in that I'd like to see Fuk Ryu get another chance in September when we're absolutely, positively more out of it than we are now. I like Mateo and Marmol, too.

by teacher tom on Aug 18, 2006 11:38 AM CDT reply actions

Wow!

Why the hell would the cubs want to spend money on a FA pitcher for next year? There is almost no chance of the Cubs jumping from 16 games under .500 to playoff contender. So why waste the money? But the Cubs have what a lot of other teams would love to have, between 7-10 young starting pitchers that may be able to help a big league club next year. (note I am counting Galleger and Veal) The Cubs should just throw them all at the rotation and see who sticks. All of the others can go to the pen. Its called a rebuilding year and the Cubs need one bad.

by Boilerfan on Aug 19, 2006 11:33 PM CDT reply actions