I miss Mad Dog.

by Oscarson1 on Aug 20, 2006 8:54 AM CDT

On July 31, I watched the transaction wire to make sure Jim Hendry didn't trade Greg Maddux. Even though he had become a very average pitcher at this stage of his career, I stil felt he had value to the organization. Everyone knows the rest of the story.

Maddux picked up career win number 329 last night in San Francisco.

The more I follow Maddux as a Dodger and read his comments, the more it looks like he was pushing for this trade, and he had his agent Scott Boras doing a lot of the leg work. He is now enjoying a resurrgence in LA, and it is kind of hard for me to watch. I understand Izturis is a great SS who will be here for at least the next couple years, but I sure would have liked to see Mad Dog finish off his brilliant career in Cubbie Blue.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Izturis is great?

n/t

by Santos Sorrow @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 20, 2006 9:05 AM CDT reply actions

Dunno about great.....

....but he's pretty damn good at short.

by BeerCub on Aug 20, 2006 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions

I haven't seen that.

To me, he's pretty much a younger Neifi.

by Al Yellon on Aug 20, 2006 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions

With All Due Respect.....

...you've said this all along, and I'm beginning to wonder if you're looking at him objectively. Keep in mind a few things. He's coming off Tommy John surgery, and one of the reasons the Dodgers went after Furcal is because they didn't think Izturis would be back at all this year. Through a lot of hard work he came back much sooner. Before he got hurt, no one complained about his play at short in L.A. Pitchers loved him, heck, the media did too, and his plate performance was improving as well. He had 193 hits in 2004. He was talked about in L.A. as one of the best shortstops in the N.L. if not the best before his injury, and many here in L.A. felt the Dodgers gave up too much to land a 40 year old pitcher whose best days are obviously behind him. Give him some time to mesh with Cedeno or whoever they put at second next spring. I think the Cubs stole him.

by BeerCub on Aug 20, 2006 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions

All of the info..

would still refute the fact that he is doing good. He isn't. He's another average MI with a bigger name than Neifi Perez. That's not to say that he won't improve with time, but right now, he is awful.

by thekansasian on Aug 20, 2006 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions

We'll agree to disagree....

...vehemently

by BeerCub on Aug 20, 2006 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions

He's batting under .250...

where is the good? His performance right now is awful. As I said, he still has the opportunity to improve and and prove me wrong next year. I'm not saying he's a horrible player; i'm saying he's awful AS of right now.

by thekansasian on Aug 21, 2006 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Izturis is awful

Al,

You are completely right about this. Izturis' signing may very well prove to be the death knell of the 2007 season. My thinking has Hendry targeting Soriano for second base, using Izturis at short.

If Soriano doesn't sign, who do you target?

Lugo has said he wants to play ss, I find it very unlikely a top 10 free agent makes a positional compromise for a 90-loss team (with very little hope for improvement)

That being said, I think Lugo could be had if he were slotted at SS. Izturis cannot hit, cannot field (look it up, he's just average at best) AND he provides a road block for legitimate answers in the infleid.

Izturis' aquisition will have negative ramifications for years to come.

by Santos Sorrow @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 20, 2006 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions

Oh For Heaven's Sake....

....the DEATH KNELL of 2007? Gimme a break. Dramatic much?

by BeerCub on Aug 20, 2006 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions

No kidding...

I don't think I've read even one marginally hopeful post from this guy.

But prepare yourself, beercub, to find out you're not in "reality". If you were as intelligent as he is, you would see that not only does the trade for Cesar Izturis sink the Cubs in 2007, it also will hinder the war effort in Iraq, strengthen North Korea's and Iran's nuclear efforts, drive the price of oil up, and cause yet another NSync band member to come out of the closet.

by theprognosticator on Aug 20, 2006 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions

You are correct on all counts

but you forgot that he killed Kennedy too.

And,

Beercub,

You can be as "hopeful" as you'd like, I prefer to be correct though.

by Santos Sorrow @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 20, 2006 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions

When Do You Start?

by BeerCub on Aug 20, 2006 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions

He was the one...

would said he's been cheering against the Cubs...baffling...

by thekansasian on Aug 20, 2006 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes, I hope they continue to lose

What are you rooting for?

by Santos Sorrow @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 20, 2006 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Root as you wish...

... I happen to agree with you that Izturis is a mistake, but I don't think he's any "death knell", considering the offseason has not yet begun.

Tell me this. Would you rather be right, or win? I think I know the answer.

by Al Yellon on Aug 20, 2006 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Exactly..

...and while I don't agree with you on the Izturis thing...what do people think will happen if the Cubs lose 110 games. They aren't gonna blow it up. They will look for a big name (like they did with Sosa) to fill the seats while they try to figure a way to assemble a competitor. By the time they get around to filling one hole there will be another hole created and it will just be a vicious cylce. To root for the Cubs to lose makes no sense. The best we can hope for is that they fill in some holes during the offseason to make this team compete and then complete the puzzle before the trade deadline.
As for Izturis, I definitely do not think that he is some super-stud right now, nor do I think he is worthless. IMHO he is going to continue to improve behind the plate and play some really solid defense up the middle. I don't think that he is lead-off material but I see no reason why he couldn't form himself into a good #2 hitter.

One more month!!!!!

by santo for prez on Aug 20, 2006 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Couldn't have said it any better Al...

It's one thing to expect the worst and hope for the best, quite another to expect the worst, hope for the worst, and do a little dance when the worst happens.

It's like everyone on that 1060blog. They don't want the Cubs to win, they just want to be right and the Cubs to win on their terms.

Myself, I could care less how wrong or right I am about the team as long as they win.

With Dusty, no Dusty. With Hendry, no Hendry. With Izturis, no Izturis, I don't care. Just win, baby.

Go Cubs. Today, tomorrow, and forever. I don't even care if my ex-wife takes over the team. Go Cubs.

by theprognosticator on Aug 20, 2006 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Reply

I don't even care if my ex-wife takes over the team.

Does your ex-wife understand the value of OBP? If so, I'm all for it!

Peter: "Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits! It says, 'Oooooo!'"
Brian: - "Peter, those are Cheerios." - Family Guy

by VS on Aug 20, 2006 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions

No she doesn't....

She couldn't even balance the checkbook.

Probably fit right in at the Trib.

by theprognosticator on Aug 20, 2006 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions

heres the amazing thaing about maddux-

from the SI article on the game:
He retired the final 22 Giants batters in his previous start last Sunday at Dodger Stadium, then 10 straight to start Saturday's outing before Omar Vizquel blooped a one-out single to shallow right in the fourth. If the two were added together for 32 straight outs, Maddux had five more than a 27-out perfect game.

while it was nice to see him on the cubs, i am a bigger maddux fan than a fan of this years cubs, and i wold like to see him get into the playoffs again...

That's where they got that Picasso.

by WrigleyCat on Aug 20, 2006 9:35 AM CDT reply actions

much

like rooting for Grace in the playoffs I'd be cheering for Maddux

by flyball on Aug 20, 2006 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions

i say ...

move on ... it now seems maddux didn't want to be here anyway. he's happy now. good for him. i will not lose any sleep over it.

August Moon / Oh! I got a boil on my leg! -- Jack Kerouac (American Haikus)

by kjk on Aug 20, 2006 12:34 PM CDT reply actions

Maddux CLEARLY wanted out

I think I have the market cornered on Maddux obsession
and there is no doubt that Maddux through Boras was
pushing for a trade to the Dodgers specifically. Much as
I hate him, I think Colletti went out on a limb to get this
done because as our LACubfan kept telling us the Dodgers
DID not need a SP let alone a struggling one with an ERA
near 5. Colletti knew better and took a lot of heat from
the fans ( though not the media) INITIALLY for the trade.
Hendry let him go because he owed it to him and there
was NO chance he was staying next year.

As I have said I think Izturis is a pretty good consolation
prize all things considered. I don't get the negativity towards
him and IF we had a guy like THAT FIELDING behind Maddux
at the start of the season , he might not have fled to
LA ( the blown DPs were taking a toll on him)

I feel terribly guilty that I can NOT root for the Dodgers
EXCEPT when Maddux pitches. I just do not like them
I have never cared for them and now that they "took"
Maddux , Nomar & Furcal , I REALLY don't like them.
Don't tell me we gave them up , that Hendry is dumb
and Colletti brilliant. Makes no difference ( and I don't
agree anyway)

That said , watching Maddux's resurgence and the
incredible influence he has had on the team has been
one of the seasons few joys

I HATE NED COLLETTI

by jessica on Aug 20, 2006 12:42 PM CDT reply actions

I never thought of it this way

But how bad would it have been after the year was over and then Maddux turned down the Cubs to go to the Dodgers as a FA? The way it went down seems a little easier to take, but nothing will remove the sickening experience of losing him the first time. Good luck Greg, but I hope the Dodgers only win when you start.

by LT on Aug 20, 2006 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions

izturis..

I was the poster who defined Izturis as a younger Neifi.. and I will stand by that judgement of Izturis.. a little slicker in the field than Neifi is and just about as bad as a stick.. Izturis isn't doing the little things that he did when everything went his way with the Dodgers.. and that is a sad thing because when everything goes your way and still you are only able to put up an obp of .348 .. something is wrong about that situation.

Maddux for Izturis no matter which way you cut it is a bad deal.. especially when you consider Lugo was dealt for a blue chip prospect in Joel Guzman.. I cannot stand this deal the more I think about waht could have have been.

by cubsfan2883 on Aug 20, 2006 9:03 PM CDT reply actions

You're wrong

Bad deal? Hardly. Maddux is a 40-year-old pitcher in obvious decline who was on his way out the door at the end of what became a lost season back in May for the Cubs. Getting something of value for him was a victory in and of itself.

All of the Izturis bashers manage to evade the point that the guy only came back in June from Tommy John surgery. His arm looks fine now, but he's just rounding back into form as far as his game is concerned. I'm not saying that he's ever going to be an OPS machine (not that such a thing is required of a very good fielding SS, anyway -- it's a defense-first position, folks, so stop harping on the offense so much), but even if he doesn't pan out as much of a hitter he can still be a useful asset via his glove and arm.

The Cubs got an everyday player with potential for a declining player with no potential and little or no chance of returning as a FA next season. It was a good deal.

Luck is the residue of design. -- Branch Rickey

by Gregory on Aug 21, 2006 5:36 AM CDT up reply actions

Yep that 40 year old Maddux is in decline

Otherwise I agree with you

If ANYONE was gonna hate Itzuris it should be
me as his availability after the Lugo trade led to
Maddux being traded at the F&^%%ing DEADLINE
( I kind of thought I was safe) but from what little
I have seen Itzuris is closer to Ozzie Smith than
Neffi. Our IF was a DISASTER in fielding this year
after Lee went down ( and not great before that)
A truly great fielding SS can help turn it around
I will take his currently light bat over all the blown
DPs we endured in the last several seasons.

This was a fair deal and I think BOTH clubs will
be very happy about it for years to come

I HATE NED COLLETTI

by jessica on Aug 21, 2006 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions

I have always loved Maddux too

but Jessica is right. He was gone after this season. We got a decent player. Not a great player but a decent one who will probabaly get better as he continues to heel and mature. Would we have preferred some prospects? Not me. I think this trade was good. Get over it. It hurts to see Maddux in a Dodgers uniform. Jessica, we are alike. I hate the Dodgers because they got Maddux, and Nomar. And I really hate them because Furcal hurt D-Lee and was not at all apologetic about it. I am rooting for Maddux to get at least 15 wins. However, I don't want them in the playoffs. Selfish, yes, but that is how I feel.

by mgfabc on Aug 21, 2006 9:49 AM CDT reply actions

On the replay that I saw...

..if anyone should have been apologetic it was Eyre (IIRC). Furcal was running hard down the line and he pisses me off for hurting DLee but it wasn't his fault....that is like blaming Bartmann for the 2003 incident. If I were in his seat, I probably would have been trying to catch the ball too (I hope not but probably would have). Why would a guy have to apologize for hustling down the line?

One more month!!!!!

by santo for prez on Aug 21, 2006 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions

LOLOL

"I really hate them because Furcal hurt D-Lee and was not at all apologetic about it."

If anybody needed to apologize, it was the pitcher (I forget who it was), that threw the ball errantly, forcing Lee to have to reach his arm in front of an oncoming runner.

by jazzman56 on Aug 21, 2006 12:17 PM CDT reply actions

It was Colletti's fault

just like everything else that ruined the season
Eyre slipped while tossing to to Lee putting him out of
position and Furcal ran into him. Other than maybe saying
he was sorry it happened , Furcal had nothing to apologize
for but it was just another intance of the cosmic Colletti
forces conspiring against us.
He does not make Furcal the 3 year 39 million offer,
Furcal is not hitting that ball at Eyre and never runs into
Lee and viola the Cubs win the WS or at least get
to the playoffs.

I HATE NED COLLETTI

by jessica on Aug 21, 2006 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions