Friendly Confines?

by wicubfan on Aug 21, 2006 6:54 PM CDT Comment 26 comments

Bob Nightengale has an interesting article in the USA Today. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/cubs/2006-08-20-cubs-baker-focus_x.htm

The article points out the higher expectations for the Cubs since 2003 as well as problems a few players have had with racism at Wrigley Field.

Ryan Dempster states that "sometimes it's a whole lot easier to play on the road."

This situation reminds me of a time in the late '70s and early '80s when Green Bay Packer fans were accused of hampering the home team's play with the constant booing. They tried to turn everything positive and make it more like a college game atmosphere.

What do you think?

Poll

Is there too much booing of the home team at Wrigley?

A.) Yes booing of the home team should only be done in extreme circumstances.

32 votes

B.) No, I've paid my money, I will boo whenever I want.

16 votes

C.) It doesn't matter. My booing shouldn't affect these millionaire ballplayers.

18 votes

66 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Unfortunately, some people, I guess many people

go way too far. I think we are all passionate about the Cubs and desperately want to see this team win the big one. There is Never an excuse, as a manager or a player, to have to deal with racism, balls being thrown at you, and certainly death threats.

As much as we want to see the Cubs succeed, in the end, this is just a dumb game; albeit, one we truly enjoy. People need to use their heads, and those who continue to paint a black eye on the rest of the Cub faithful are truly ignorant/gutless individuals.

AT LEAST Dusty, whether you like him or dislike him, is smart enough to separate the few idiots from the majority of loyal Cub fans. I'm disappointed with Don Baylor's, Hawkins, and previously Jacque Jones' comments which seem to generalize all Cub fans as racists/threats.

by LuisSalazar on Aug 21, 2006 8:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't have time to find Jacque's old comments

but I remember that he was clear to isolate the fan, at least the fan who threw the ball at him, and not all Cubs fans.

by TC Cubby on Aug 22, 2006 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's very rare...

...that I've booed at Wrigley. The only players I have ever booed are Sammy Sosa, LaTroy Hawkins, and Corey Patterson, all of which were performance-related. I've also booed a couple of times when they played like little leaguers (like at Friday's game in the third inning). If anything, I think it should be incentive for them to come out and play harder, but maybe it has become too prevalent for it to have that effect. I do believe, however, that the fans' opinion ought to reflect the standard of play on the field, and I can't really fault people for it this season.

by Perkins on Aug 21, 2006 9:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

There are only two players...

..that I can remember booing at Wrigley; Sammy Sosa (in 2000) and Glendon Rusch (May 12, 2006) I just knew when Rusch took off his jacket in the bullpen that it was over...sure enough 5 runs later it pretty much was.

One more month!!!!!

by santo for prez on Aug 21, 2006 10:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

What an stupid article...

...there was never ANY booing of the home team at Wrigley until after 2003. Perhaps we expect a bit more, these days, and that's good. Nightengale's just filling column inches, and controversy is the best way to do it. Or perhaps he's never visited Yankee Stadium or Fenway Park, where the home team is booed regularly. Which, of course -- as a baseball beat writer for years, he has. This is just pure garbage journalism, and oversensitive, coddled ballplayers just want to whine. And, Dempster should be ashamed of that remark. Perhaps if he closed out a game without walking the bases full, or giving up 2 hits per inning, he wouldn't be booed. Idiot.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 21, 2006 10:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

"Never ANY booing ... until after 2003"?

Tell that to Dave Kingman or Todd Hundley. Or Terry Adams, during his sucky year as the Cubs' closer in 1997.

I've heard plenty of boos directed at the Cubs over the years prior to '03, especially when an unpopular scapegoat such as Todd Hundley was on hand to be the prime target of the boo-birds. Booing wasn't as conspicuous a part of the Wrigley landscape as it was in Philly, Boston, or New York, but it was there.

Other than that, I think that your comments about that obnoxious Nightengale article in USA Today were right on target.

Luck is the residue of design. -- Branch Rickey

by Gregory on Aug 22, 2006 4:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree, SD

Nightengale is starting to enter his "twilight years," to quote John Henry.

Of course, this is the same guy who earlier in the year wrote an article that seemed to imply God was helping the Rockies.

Poppppppppped it up...

by nextyearcub on Aug 22, 2006 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Drama journalism

So I'm asked to believe that Nightengale just happened to be in Chicago for the Cards series. And while he was there, and Darren was with his father, that they went into Dusty's office. Of course, then Baker decided to open a letter in the middle of the interview and the letter just so happened to be racist. Is that what I'm expected to believe?

No thanks. Racism is real. To stage what is purpoted to be an example of a typical day filled with racism is a terrible example of journalism at its worst.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Aug 21, 2006 10:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

What are Cub fans

supposed to do? Hell they get critizied if they sit on there hands, drink wine in row house bleachers, and are accused of being preppy. I have a problem if does get racist, that is unaceptable, however if the play on the field is poor, and guess what it has been the last two years, then the fans have a right to BOO.
How about tonight, once again wonderful situational hitting by the Cubs. Mabry on 3rd, no outs, and DO NOT score. Cubs lose 6-5.
I am tired of seeing this team swing at pitches that are not even close to the plate. And I will boo in this situation.
Suck it up Boys, You have played bad ball this year. Stop the Boo's, stop swinging at a 2-0 pitch around your eyes.

Wood for closer in 07

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Aug 21, 2006 11:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Fans have the right to boo

what is the problem here? Booing is not racists behavior and it is far better than assaulting people. The players and managers are way to sensitive and it has to do with the money they get and their perceived self-importance, and the greater media access and how quicker issues are turned around in the media.

Cubs fans should have high expectations and expect the team to compete. When they play poorly feel free to boo all you want, just don't assualt people or toss stuff on the field.

And to Baker, Hawkins, Baylor, and J.J., 99% of Cubs fans rooted for you and wanted you to do well (except for Hawking who is a total ignorant jackass). If you want to generalize about all Cubs fans because of some ass-hat racists then go ahead, you don't mean anything to Cubs fans once you are gone and nobody gives a shit about your burdens.

by DudeVf1 on Aug 22, 2006 1:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Booing is classless

Cubs fans are viewed by many outside of the Cubs nation as among the classiest fans in baseball. Booing at Wrigley field was once thought to be unheard of. This, among many other recent fan behaviors, is despicable.

I needn't say more.

she

by Sarah Hope on Aug 22, 2006 6:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

RE: Booing is classless

I've always thought that the media's "classiest fans" title is given to St Louis. I tend to agree with that.

I feel like the opposite is true here. While, yes, there is a portion of Cubs fans that will support this team with an almost unheard amount of passion and loyalty (I feel like that is who I talk with here). But there is also a significant portion of fans portrayed as drunken yuppies who go to the ballpark for a good time and leave without knowing the final score or who pitched that day. When you combine that with this "Broad Brush" article by Nightengale, it doesn't make us look very good.

"I don't see where plate discipline becomes a tool" - Cubs Assistant GM Gary Hughes

by Jobu on Aug 22, 2006 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We are/were among them for sure

As of late it has become deplorable. My father just shakes his head when he thinks of what Wrigley-ites have become. It's too bad, but I do think that after the last straglers from the 2003 bandwagon fall off, we will start getting back to the days that I, and many other Cubs fans, hold so near.

she

by Sarah Hope on Aug 22, 2006 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're just kidding, right?

Booing is classless? Those of you that continue to pay to view this garbage have a right if not an obligation to voice your displeasure in the form of booing. You are the paying customer after all and if the product doesn't equate to the price on the ticket, then it is up to you to let management know that you are not happy.

If you were to order a $50 N.Y. Strip Steak at Gibson's, would you just sit on your hands and say nothing if it arrived to your table looking like a charcoal briquette? Sarah might be willing to sit by while blissfully (ignorance is bliss) chewing on a piece of leather but the majority of us know that the customer is always right.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Aug 22, 2006 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To each his own,

but I choose not to build my life on the value of transient things like fortune, but rather on the integrity of faith and loyalty.

Yes, booing is classless.

she

by Sarah Hope on Aug 22, 2006 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

if you want to go with that analogy (which I don't think is very accurate) then would you a) tell the waiter that the steak is not cooked correctly and ask for it to be redone or b)stand up in the middle of the restaurant and shout "this steak is bad, bad steak, bad steak"

by flyball on Aug 22, 2006 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's not a real good analogy...

... because accepted behavior in a restaurant is different than that at a ballpark.

Booing is a way of showing disapproval. I don't find anything wrong with it.

by Al on Aug 22, 2006 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's a perfectly...

...good analogy. It's another form of showing displeasure in a purchased product.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Aug 22, 2006 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

accepted behavior

I accept booing at Wrigley like I accept the Wave, other people do it, and it annoys me, now if we could get the entire stadium to start chanting "Bring back Hawkins" whenever Rusch came up to pitch I'd be on board

by flyball on Aug 22, 2006 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

...if you were in a restaurant that had 40,000 patrons in it you might be forced to standup and yell that your steak sucks. With a sports venue being what it is I don't think you could voice your displeasure with an usher or a vendor and count on it making it to the people that need to hear it. The players and their management.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Aug 22, 2006 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Funny that booing is the issue picked up here

BCB readers picked up on the booing angle, but today's Chicago papers, reacting to the same USA Today article, are all about the racist angle.

Don't know if Chicago is worse than other cities in this regard, but as fans we should be concerned about the reputation being painted.

Finally, the Sun-Times headline today "Dusty in no race to leave" is really in poor taste, making a pun out of "race" in a story that is partially about racist hate mail.

by JohnM on Aug 22, 2006 6:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

my guess

as to why we would be looking at the booing angle instead of racist angle is that all of us. I would hope, believe it to be closed minded, stupid and wrong. there's not a whole lot else to say

now booing at Wrigley annoys me because its boring, I don't mind heckling as long as its interesting and creative. random booing and yelling swears at players just seems like a waste of energy. put some thought into it people, I've heard some really good heckling at wrigley, but booing is just noise

by flyball on Aug 22, 2006 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

I chose to leave the racist angle out of this diary because I believe the racists represent a tiny fraction of the Cubs fan base and probably no different than other major league cities.

My interest is in finding out what other Cub fans thought about booing the home team as it affects performance. As we all know, the Cubs record in Wrigley the last few years has been abysmal. As a Cub fan, anything I could do to turn that around I would do.

by wicubfan on Aug 22, 2006 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunate article.

Let me start this post by saying that even one piece of racist hate mail is too many. It's repugnant that people even have such thoughts, let alone that they take the time to write those thoughts down and put them in the mail. Nevertheless, if USA Today is going to portray an entire fan base as racist, I think we are entitled to know the answer. In a typical week, how many pieces of "fan" mail does Dusty Baker receive, and of those, how many contain some sort of racism? If we are all going to be painted with the broad brush, I think we are entitled to those answers.

The most bothersome aspect of the article is equating the booing with the racist hate mail. I'm not a huge fan of booing, and generally consider it a last resort. Nevertheless, given the complete mismanagement of the Cubs and Hendry's failure to fire a demonstrably incompetent manager, I don't think there's anything wrong with making displeasure known. All of the tickets are sold, so a boycott doesn't really work.

I've lost some respect for Dempster as well. In most cities and for most of the Cubs' history, these playing-out-the-string games would be played in front of 10,000 people. As it is, the ballpark is nearly packed every day with the people who buy tickets and allow the Cubs to pay the players their multimillion dollar salaries. If Dempster doesn't want to hear it from people who are sick of watching him throw batting practice every day, I could use a file clerk around here. The pay would be about 1/10,000 an hour of what he earns now, but he won't be booed. Nice "closer's makeup," Ryan.

by John in Indy on Aug 22, 2006 7:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Excellent analysis....

... Baker even hinted that this was overblown in today's Sun-Times:

"A lot of this is old news," Baker said. "I even got a few [racially motivated letters] in San Francisco. I've gotten a lot more here than there. But it's outnumbered by a couple hundred to one [by favorable letters]. And I get more mail than anyone on the team. The good outnumber the bad, by far."

While racist mail is indeed repugnant, and those people should be ashamed of themselves, it does appear to be a very small minority of letters received.

by Al on Aug 22, 2006 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Totally Agree

The article is unfortunate.

Booing is okay sometimes. But many fans these days do seem to have a higher expectation after 2003. I've been saying this all year, and it's why I've avoided the team the last year and a half.

If the Tribune doesn't want to pay for a good team, then we have to leave the seats empty. It's as simple as that. You can't go to the park and expect a team with two rookies in the starting line-up, and three rookies in the rotation (now four) to perform well. It's ridiculous to expect anything from the Cubs these days. And until they replace the bats of Sosa and Alou (75 HRs, 200 RBIs) that they lost 3 years ago, they will never be that good again.

by jg on Aug 22, 2006 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs