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I am very sorry!

I am sorry to use space for a new diary, but I should apologize for my inappropriate behavior.

Star-divide

I was completely wrong to have any hope that the Cubs could turn things around completely next season.  

DLee got hurt this year and ARam didn't step it up while he was down.  Prior will be on the payroll next year but he will never again be able to even be a #3 or #4 starter...probably not even a #5 starter for that matter.  

I am completey crazy to think that maybe Barrett has mastered the art of seeing the ball really well.  I have no idea what I was thinking when I thought that Juan Pierre would take a couple of months to adapt to hitting in Wrigley and Dusty was bunting him to failure.  

ARam is done, I was severely mistaken by thinking that he could continue to be a 30-40 HR kind of guy and I really must have been smoking something to think that Murton could possibly hit 20 HRs next year.

Someone please wake me up, as I have no idea what I was thinking....I was so crazy to think that some of these young arms might have solid seasons next year (even though 13-13 might not be horrible for a #5 starter).  I guess I was dilusional to think that at least a few of them would be able to take their experinces this year and turn it into an improved season next year.

I apologize to everyone for my mental lapse (maybe it is the heat) recently.  I have woken up now and realize that the Cubs won't make any trades in the offseason, none of the players will be able to play at the same level as they have been in the last few months (or years).  Players that have been injured will always be injured from here on out.  Management is not going to get into much of the FA market this offseason and next year I will be able to watch the Cubs win about 60 games.  

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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i forgive you.
Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt, Matsuzaka & Lee. Its Eaton, Kennedy, Wood, Pierre and a backup RH OF instead.

by CubFaninCA on Aug 25, 2006 4:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Reply

I have no idea what I was thinking when I thought that Juan Pierre would take a couple of months to adapt to hitting in Wrigley and Dusty was bunting him to failure.  

Meh, doesn't matter.  Pierre needs to hit .320 to be an above average CF (barely) and I doubt that's happening as he gets older and loses an extra step.

BP recently had an article about SBs and such.  You know how valuable Pierre's 311 career SBs have been to the his teams? They have cost them 9 runs because Pierre has never been a good basestealer. He has also been picked off more than any other NLer since 2000, if I remember correctly.

Pierre is a likeable guy and all that, but man I hope he doesn't come back next season.


 Management is not going to get into much of the FA market this offseason and next year I will be able to watch the Cubs win about 60 games.    

Eh, they'll probably have an 05-like season and somehow manage to win 70 games or so, but otherwise you're right.

by VS on Aug 25, 2006 4:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Stats don't tell all
Speed gets him from 2nd to home or 3rd to home quicker, etc. etc..  A speedy runner can distract the pitcher..

Of course, I don't want him back either, but his speed adds a good amount of value.

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt, Matsuzaka & Lee. Its Eaton, Kennedy, Wood, Pierre and a backup RH OF instead.

by CubFaninCA on Aug 25, 2006 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reply

 A speedy runner can distract the pitcher..

Speed distracts the pitcher so much yet Pierre leads the NL in pickoffs since 2000?

Look, I've already said speed is a nice assett to have, but it is not that important and speed by itself has very little value.

by VS on Aug 25, 2006 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've changed my mind on Pierre...
For the amount of money he will command in the offseason (somebody will blow it and offer him 8-9M per), and after watching a full year of him play, I'd just as soon let him go, save the money, sign a stop-gap for one year and let the Felix Pie Era begin in 2008 or during the second half of 07 even.

Pierre brings some nice qualities to the table but his weaknesses overshadow the positives by too much I'm afraid. If he were hitting .330 this year, I'd say by all means keep him, but even with the nice 3 months he's had he's still only a .280 hitter with zero power, and no ability to take walks. You can blame only so much on the power side of things as Luis Castillo doesn't hit home runs either, and yet he walks 70 times a year.

by theprognosticator on Aug 25, 2006 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Will the Felix Pie era
be anything like the Ty Griffin era or the Corey Patterson era? Because I don't think I could take that again.
"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Aug 25, 2006 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Been hearing so much about Pie...
...I just want to find out already.

Lol...Ty Griffin. I remember when he was supposed to be so good, Sandberg was going to have to switch positions.

by theprognosticator on Aug 25, 2006 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lord 'O Mighty
We agree!!!!  Pierre shouldn't even be considered for a new contract.  Pie will give you the equal of Pierre's production next year and he'll cost 330,000 a year for 3 years.  

Every dollar that goes to Pierre, post October '06, decreases the likelihood the Cubs will improve in the forseeable future.

Those dollars need to be earmarked for the two starting pitchers and Alfonso Soriano acquisions (I know, its a dream)

by Santos Sorrow on Aug 26, 2006 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lame
n/t
"Getting the current version of Maddux is a minor help. Losing Izturis, who's just a glove playing out of position on the Dodgers, is a major one. "

by ksucubbie on Aug 25, 2006 4:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Try to Keep the Faith
Usually, in late August of a season like this, I would be agreeing with you.  Here is why I'm not: The National League is so bad this year, and the Central Division is so wide open, that I do not believe for one minute that the Cubs cannot be right back in the middle of things next year.  Contrary to what is said and written about this year's Cubs, there is a lot of talent on this team.  The team just needs the kind of leadership in the dugout and clubhouse to blend this talent together so that when they walk across the white lines, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.  This year, on any given day, they are simply nine talented guys out there playing in the same uniform.

We need one more big bat to go in the middle of the lineup with Lee, Ramirez, Barrett and Jones. Pierre is not the best leadoff hitter in the world, but he has had a good second half and I think you need to bring him back because if you don't, that creates another huge hole, and I'm not sure there is going to be a better one out there this offseason. The rotation is in shambles, but the back end of the bullpen has been great.  I really think, one more big bat in left field, two starting pitchers, and a change in attitude from the manager and coaches, and we can be back in it in '07.  The National League is wide open and there is no reason to believe that will change next year.  It's up to Jim Hendry and Andy MacFailure and whether they want to make it happen.  Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but it would not really take all that much.  

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Aug 25, 2006 5:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Soriano
Obviously, if the Cubs could sign Soriano, then forget what I said about there not being a better leadoff guy out there this offseason.  If that is a possibility, they should go for it.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Aug 25, 2006 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's why this is possible.
The National League in 2006 is what Bill James once called a "compressed league" -- i.e., there isn't much difference from top to bottom. Throw out the team with the best record -- the Mets -- and the worst, the Pirates -- and the other fourteen teams are separated by only 12.5 games. That's remarkable, especially this late in the year.

Further, the Cardinals, who have the 2nd-best record in the NL, have only a .524 percentage -- that would translate to 85 wins. That would be the worst 2nd-best record ever -- the current record is .532, the 1958 White Sox. They won 82 games in that 154-game season; that'd translate to 86 in a 162-game season. The 1958 AL was, apart from the 93-loss Senators and 92-win Yankees, also fairly compressed -- nine games from 2nd to 7th.

You know what the White Sox did the year after that.

Another "compressed league" was the 1983 National League, which was 23 games top-to-bottom, and 17 games from third (Atlanta, 88 wins) to eleventh (Cubs, 91 losses).

You know what the Cubs did the year after that.

I'm not saying the Cubs WILL blow through the pack next year -- but the chances are pretty good that SOME team that's near the bottom will.

by Al on Aug 25, 2006 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The last five or six diaries concerning this topic
are why I am having trouble really attending this blog.  It seems that there are people who tend to want a homogenized view on the future of the franchise.. its their opinion or your opinion is the stupidest thing they've ever heard.  

Truth be told, why not wait until you know the off-season is done to make comments about next years chances.. If the Cubs were to pick up two impact free agents one of which was a pitcher and one a power bat/RBI guy.  Then would you not say that the team at least has a SHOT. Yes, I would.  I think the Cubs are 3 players away from competing and those players are available.. Two quality Starting pitchers one of which is an ace one of which is a solid middle guy.  And one power hitting OF/2b/SS.  Any of those positions will do.  I want the Cubs to be successful. It seems like a lot of people have turned in their desire to watch baseball to watch the Cubs in return they have received a bitingly cynical view on everything Cubs and everything baseball.  

I will root for the Cubbies next year no matter what they are my team, and baseball isn't a game to be taken too seriously.  It isn't my life, it was once my passion; however, it is still just a game.  Anyway,that's that. I shall dissapear again until put on notice by Julie (dropped to 5th she needs to put HERSELF on notice).

by cubsfan2883 on Aug 25, 2006 6:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That . . .
is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

by hoosiercubbie on Aug 25, 2006 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed
you're forgiven.
"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Aug 25, 2006 7:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

santo for prez...
You do realize that you're basing almost all of your opinions/beliefs on nothing that is supported with statistical evidence, right?  Aside from assuming we can expect similar production from Aramis Ramirez, nothing else you say here is based on anything other than opinion.  Sure, they're your opinions and you're entitled to them, but to ignore, discount, or even make fun of those who do use statistical analysis to show that this team is not going to be very good next season is ludicrous.

There's no evidence whatsoever that could suggest a player just suddenly masters the art of seeing the ball better.  It doesn't happen.  The correlation coefficient of batting average is 0.43, which means their is a tremendous variance from one season to the next in a player's batting average.  Ignoring this because you think he mastered the art of seeing the ball better is definitely an opinion you're entitled to, and you may ultimately even be right, but the evidence we have suggests that you aren't.  

All of your opinions are qualified with "anything is possible" or "you can't say that for sure."  Of course not.  Nothing in this game is for sure and nobody understands it in its entirety, but we do have strong evidence to suggest that Barrett will not ever again reproduce this batting average just as we have reason to believe Derrek Lee never will match his 2005 numbers again either.  Yes, it's possible, but highly unlikely.  

What you don't seem to understand or are simply ignoring is that most people who say the Cubs have little chance are basing this on statistical evidence and a few logical assumptions as well.  I agree that it's entirely possible that the Cubs could contend, but the likelihood of that is slim to none.  This is a numbers game, if anything, and they simply do not support the Cubs being a successful team unless they spend upwards of $130 million on the team next season.  

So go ahead and believe that Barrett is an improved hitter when the overwhelming odds are that he's been lucky at the plate.  .260 hitters don't suddenly become .320 or .330 hitters.  It DOES NOT happen.  It's possible, but rare.  Same goes for Derrek Lee.  

Just as many argued at great length that guys with walk rates like Dempster do not make good closers despite his stellar first season as a closer.  As it's turned out, the numbers were right.  Dempster isn't a good closer.  YOu have to be careful to base opinions after a career year.  You see, a career year, by definition, is one that is not likely to happen again or it wouldn't be called a career year.

We can also expect a modest regression to the mean for Jack Jones next season.  He's outperformed his career numbers already.  His career averages tell us he's not this good.  I'm sure it's possible to believe he just suddenly got better at his age, but again, it's highly unlikely.  

It's also highly unlikely to expect Mark Prior to step into the rotation next season and be anything close to functional after nearly 3 seasons filled with injuries.  Not to mention that we now have "rumors" (from the same guy who first broke his sore shoulder this spring training) that his injury is the exact same as Kerry Wood's in 2005.  How did 2006 work out for Kerry Wood?

What are the odds that just ONE young pitcher who made his debut on a team turns in a respectable performance the following season?  5% maybe?  And you're suggesting that THREE of them could do this?  Again, HIGHLY UNLIKELY!  Not impossible by any means...but the chances are slim to none.

Murton can hit 20 home runs next season based on what?  His minor league numbers?  No.  His Major League numbers?  No.  His slugging average?  No. His isolated power?  No.  His .255/.300/.375 line as an everyday player?  No.  Just exactly what are you basing this "murton can hit 20 homers next season" stuff on?  Not impossible, but nearly impossible and there's no reason at all in this world to think that he can do this.  NONE.  PERIOD!

So Juan Pierre's horrible 2 months to start the season should be ignored based on his last 3 months?  We shouldn't consider his horrible OBP in the leadoff spot and his horrible stolen base percentage, which has effective nullified ANY value at all that he may have with his 40+ SBs?  Just ignore this?  His .280/.325/.375 line we should just ignore, too?  We should just pay this guy $8 million per season to produce at the level a replacement player could?  Just because you think it took a 6 year MLB veteran 2 months to adapt to hitting in one of the friendliest hitting ballparks in the game?  Just because you think Dusty made him bunt even though bunting has been a HUGE part of his game in the past?  Just ignore all of this?  

So we should also count on production from players who are oft-injured?  Should we pencil Prior in as the ace and rely on him for 22 wins next season, too?  Should we ignore the fact that wrist injuries have been known to be problematic and even have ended the careers of some?  

We're just going to trade all of this surplus talent we have to get players via trade?  What surplus talent?  Who are we going to trade exactly.  What players might other teams be interested in that the Cubs could afford to lose?  Just trade the talent we have at the minor league level so we can improve 25 games from one season to the next and contend next season?  This doesn't strike you as the least bit odd?

Also, please tell me why you think the Cubs are going to invest in a top-tiered free agent.  Seriously.  The last such one they signed was ANDRE DAWSON!  And he gave them a blank check.  Again, not impossible that Hendry goes out and targets maybe one elite free agent, but highly unlikely based on what we know about the Chicago Tribune.  It's NOT a freaking coincidence that the Cubs have not signed an elite free agent to market value since the Tribune has owned this team.  Do you really see this coming to an end?

So while I agree that it's possible, but can you see that it's also not likely?  "Not likely" doesn't mean impossible though the Cubs are at such a disadvantage it is damn near impossible for it to happen.  

Going back to the advent of the Wild Card 61 teams have won fewer than 70 games (not counting the '94 and '95 strike-shortened seasons).  ONLY 3 of those 61 teams--4.9%--made the playoffs the following season.  4.9%!  2 of those teams, I should point out, were the Cubs--the '97 and '02 Cubs.  The ONLY other team in this span to have won less than 70 and reach the playoffs was the Arizona Diamondbacks.  That 1999 team won 100 games after going 65-97 the season before.  That team spent a ton of cash in that offseason also.

4 out of 300 teams have managed to turn their losing season one year into a 25-game improvement the following season.  That's 1.3% of all baseball teams.  It's actually happened 5 times, but the 116 win Mariners only won 91 the year before.  It's hard to count that year considering they were pretty damn good the year before.

The NL Central average win total is 89.7 games.  Since you can't shoot for the Wild Card, the Cubs must try to win 90 games and half the years the division has been one it's taken more than 90.

The Cubs are currently on pace to win 68 games.  Keep in mind that this is a team that will be playing a lot of youngsters in September and will likely not win 68 games, but somewhere closer to 65.  But let's say 68 for the hell of it.

The Cubs would have to improve 22 games to give themselves a shot to win the NL Central.  22 games!  22 game improvements aren't more common than 25-game improvements.  

Can you see how darn difficult it's going to be for the Cubs to accomplish what you're saying?  Other teams have had injury problems before and they haven't done what you're saying they can.

If we apply just a little common sense knowing that of the only 3 times a team has lost less than 70 and then reached the playoffs the following season that 2 of those times were the Cubs, it's awfully hard to believe the Cubs are going to make it 3 out of 4 teams.  It seems nearly statistically impossible that when less than 5% of teams have done so that 75% of the times it happened was the same team.  It's just not likely.  Regardless of what happens in the offseason.  Teams just don't improve as much as the Cubs need to very often.  

No matter what you believe or what you're opinions are, you can't look at this information along with an abundance of other information that suggests how difficult it will be and tell me they stand a good chance.  They don't.  They stand a slightly better chance of making the playoffs next season than the Kansas City Royals and Pittsburgh Pirates, which isn't saying much at all.  I assume you'd agree that neither of those teams are going to be in the playoffs in 2007, right?

by Maddog on Aug 25, 2006 11:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well then I guess we can all..
..just forget about next year...no I won't surrender to your hidden insults:  Rebuttal:

1)You do realize that you're basing almost all of your opinions/beliefs on nothing that is supported with statistical evidence, right?
a)well those are what opinions are called, but I am not an idiot and I do know what statistics are, however I do not believe that sabermetrics are the answer....how often are they wrong about a player?

2)but to ignore, discount, or even make fun of those who do use statistical analysis to show that this team is not going to be very good next season is ludicrous.
a)I never made fun of a damn person...I am not the one who completely misinterpreted a diary, and I am not the one who instead of posting an intelligent reply in that diary, standard a complete new diary mocking the other...talk about making fun.

3)There's no evidence whatsoever that could suggest a player just suddenly masters the art of seeing the ball better.
a)I never said there was, I reacted to your slam against me for having a positive outlook on next season...I said that I was foolish to think that could happen (sarcasm)...Do I think that Barrett is going to hit .320 next year...no, but I definitely don't think you are ever going to see a .260 season out of him again.  Gut feeling tells me he will be around .290.

4).260 hitters don't suddenly become .320 or .330 hitters.....
a)what is Barrett's BA currently??

5)unlikely to expect Mark Prior to step into the rotation next season ......What are the odds that just ONE young pitcher who made his debut on a team turns in a respectable performance the following season?  5% maybe?  And you're suggesting that THREE of them could do this?
a)What, when did I expect 3 of the rookies to be in next year's rotation...I have been calling for a FA signing of an ace and a mid-grade level pitcher...and hope (I know you hate that word) that between Prior, possibly Miller, that one could fill the #4 spot with one of the rookies coming back next year (Marshall).  Where did I say 3?

6)If we apply just a little common sense
a)You are probably right, the Cubs are gonna suck next year, and according to your views on everything about the history of the Cubs they are going to continue to suck for years to come with that one lucky year thrown in there every now and then.  

At the end of the day, you have your opinion and I have mine, if sabermetrics were the answer then being a GM would be so easy everyone could do it.  I know it is a long shot based on past experiences and what this management does in the offseason.....if I were in Las Vegas, I wouldn't even put a dollar on this team...but I will hope that maybe this is the year that the Trib and Hendry and MacFailure pull their heads out of the sand and realize that they owe the fans something.

The bottom line is, you don't have to agree with me, you don't have to like me, you don't have to respect me, but you sure showed me something about yourself with that diary.  You had every right to state your opinion and disagree with mine...there was plenty of space in my diary (which I posed a question based on records) to reply rebute or do whatever you wanted, but you had to go out of your way and take the time to copy my diary down and make fun of it and demean me in the process.  If that is what makes you feel good about yourself, trying to demean people on the internet....then I guess that gives me an excellent bit of knowledge to base an opinion.

One more month!!!!!

by santo for prez on Aug 26, 2006 2:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This isn't
even based on sabermetrics.  It's based on basic statistical data.  Anyway, feel free to ignore it.  That's what you're going to do anyway and then I'm sure you'll be shocked the team isn't as good as you thought.  Whatever!

by Maddog on Aug 26, 2006 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's got a 50-50 chance of living...
...but only a 10% chance of that.

Obviously MD, as your case makes perfectly clear, we're doomed next year just as we have been doomed the past, oh god it's been too long...

As I've said before, my brain agrees with you. Probably going to be tough one next year. Some improvement isn't out of the question. 67 wins might become 80 if guys develop, or maybe we'll catch lightning in a bottle again. But even the most die-hard, when you sit them down and get them to be dead honest, knows next year is probably not going to be the year.

But as soon as you let them get up, out comes the blue kool-aid, the you-never-knows, and the Go-Cubbies-Go. In the realm of world politics, we'd be the French, thinking and acting like we're still a world power, blissfully recalling an age of dominace we weren't alive for, and looking to the future as though it very well could happen again, vigorously waving our flag after getting our asses kicked by yet another invading army.

We're the equivalent of Jim Carrey from Dumb and Dumber and this exchange:

"So what's the chances of a girl like you ending up with a guy like me? One in a thousand?"

"More like one in a million."

<BIG SMILE>

"So you're saying there's a chance."

Delusion is to the mind of a rabid Cubs's fan like the ivy is to Wrigley Field. And despite all the venom we spew about the team these days, all the self-deprecating jokes we make about our lots as Cubs fans, every year, every day and night for that matter we clothe ourselves in delusion. And with that we hope. Maybe today is the day they turn it around. Maybe today it starts. Maybe today is when the magic begins. The magic that all of us have been waiting for and none of us wants to miss when it finally happens (and it will! Maybe next year!)  

You want common sense Maddog, you're with the wrong people. Common sense would suggest we choose a different team to root for.

So, you've got numbers. Great. Numbers say we're screwed. Fine. Sounds reasonable. But once they take the field in 2007 I'll forget all about them or call them a bunch of goddamned liars. I can't help it. I love the Cubs, and no matter what my mind tells my heart, there's nothing to deter me from believing that next year could be the year and damn well better be.  

If all we have is a slightly better chance than the Pittsburgh Pirates and the Kansas City Royals, fine then, I'll take it, nuture it, and try to inflate it as much as possible to make it seem like we have the greatest chance in the world. I'll gladly take that one in a million and consider us a shoo-in because of it.

And this is why I'm much more inclined to side with a hopeful post from santo for prez than I am with a doom and gloomer. If I were the GM of the Cubs I would be more apt to side with the doom and gloomers as the fate of the personnel on the team would rest in my hands, and I couldn't afford to be overly optimistic about the chances Freddie Bynum becomes Roberto Clemente.

But as a fan, with no power other than my right to not purchase tickets, and the quixotic dream of an irate tirade directed at Cubs management during a Cubs Convention someday, there's nothing I can do. I can't directly change anything. I can only comment on what happens. Good move--bad move. Nice play-bad play. Hooray Cubs win. Boo sniff Cubs lose. That's it.  

So, that being said, do we just disregard the overwhelming statistical and empirical evidence that says we probably won't be a good team next year swill the blue kool-aid and sing viva la Cubbies? Of course not. But at the same time  one has to accept the duality that lies within the heart of every Cubs fan, and that our hearts always win out over our heads. And no matter who is on the roster batting where and with what OBP and with how many Win Shares, we'll always believe, down deep (sometimes really down deep) that this could be the team that fools everybody, the haters, the stat monkeys, the sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, and dickheads and wins it all.

I'm sure santo for prez knows in his heart of hearts that the Cubs chances of pulling a 180 and getting to the postseason next year are small. He just isn't choosing to dwell on that, and frankly, I'm inclined to side with him on this particular issue as the team in 2007 hasn't been assembled yet. We don't know who will be on it, we don't know who will be left off of it. We don't know who will be traded, signed, let go, shot, chucked from a tall building, politely asked to leave, or greeted with garland and wreaths and fitted with gold-plaited diapers (I gotta have more cowbell!).

Nobody knows. So until the 2007 team proves your statistics right I'm going to hiss at them like  my cat at my grandmother's wig. You will have to drag me kicking and screaming into giving up on next year. It's just the way I'm wired. It's in my DNA. It's part of the agony and ecstasy and really, mostly agony, of being a Cubs's fan.      

I will never give up on the Cubs before the season starts. I will never give up on them in April. I will do what any true Cubs's fan does and I will give up on them in May. I will then get really mad at them in June. I will then let a sudden surge in July get my hopes up and I will then wholeheartedly endorse whatever fanciful, chimercial playoff scenario someone will post and call anyone who disagrees with it some really nasty names. I will then get suffocated by the last nail in the coffin come August as hope is snuffed out completely. I will then watch the minor league kids play some in September, honestly believe they will be our salvation, and blissfully ignore the immaculate doctrine of Small Sample Size. I will then get really mad at whatever half-ass offseason moves we make, and then later become very hopeful that they won't be half-ass at all, and that the half-ass players we made half-ass moves for will be better than half-ass. I will then downplay a poor Spring Training W-L record or ballyhoo and overestimate a good one. At that point the whole process will start over come Opening Day the following season and I will believe, with all my heart, as I do every year, that this year is it. Year Zero. The Year We've All Been Waiting For.

It's the lot of a Cubs's fan. Until we finally win the cycle will continue. Love them or hate them and many times doing both, I can't stop watching and I can't stop believing.

So to hell with the numbers. Do what you will with your statistics but you're fighting a losing battle. I say Cubs Win in 2007. And I have the Unknown and it's sidekick, Everlasting Hope, on my side.  

by theprognosticator on Aug 26, 2006 2:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now THAT was awesome.
Hear, hear.
"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Aug 26, 2006 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a great comment!
I, too, will have that hope once the season begins and until they show they can't contend.  That's what the new season is for.

But, seriously, what kind of discussion can we have if we're siding with hope and slim odds?  Should we talk about our favorite Cub player?  

This is what I don't get.  Keep your hope, but let's have an intelligent discussion on baseball.  This "I believe" isn't intelligent nor interesting stuff.  Yes, stats are fallible, but but they're far, far more reliable than the alternative.  

Perhaps I made the wrong assumption about using the internet as a placed to discuss intelligently the future of the Cubs program.  If I did, then I do apologize, but I can't see the benefit for the life of me in discussing this team when everything is based on hope, belief, and unfounded opinions not supported by evidence.  

This is the problem.  No, it's not that you have hope or even choose to ignore the evidence when confronted with it.  That's your choice and I really could care less what kind of a fan one is.  That's their own business.  However, these doom and gloom people as you put it are basing their assumptions with a great deal of evidence.  I, and others like me, may ultimately be wrong because this is indeed a funny game, but us being wrong relies on the Cubs grabbing ahold of what very slim chances they have.  

I could come in here like santo for prez and say that Sean Marshall is going to win the Cy Young award next season while Aramis Ramirez wins the triple crown and nobody can argue this because it's an opinion.  What is the point of a place like this if we base everything we say on "anything is possible" or "i believe it can happen"?

With all due respect, I have neither the time nor interest in spending time discussing something that's supported without evidence.  I can't argue or deny your opinions or beliefs to be true or false.  It's like we're in a place where people believe they have a good shot to win the next lottery and telling them it's not likely will mean you're pessimistic or a doom and gloom person.  

So anything of any intelligence that I have to offer is immediately dismissed in favor of false belief.  What's the point?

I guess the point is that there's a reason I don't comment here often and others who had important and intelligent things to offer no longer do either.  This is not a place where you can openly discuss this team.  It's likely a forum that is set up by the owner to do just that, but the people who have taken over the boards do not allow it because they counter every single piece of evidence that comes their way with "i believe" or "anything is possible."

That's great.  I'm glad you believe in the 2007 Cubs.  That is the only thing I can offer on this site because everything else I say will be countered with "anything is possible."

And by the way, being a Cubs fan does not mean that you have put false hope into the team's future.  You choose to do that.  Not all Cubs fans do.  The value in rooting for this team for me is that it's baseball, I love this game, and the Cubs are my favorite team.  That doesn't mean I have to stop thinking critically about them.  

by Maddog on Aug 26, 2006 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is a well-reasoned post.
One thing that I think has been totally misunderstood about ME, is that I go about blindly thinking that everything will be OK, that the team doesn't suck, that a magic wand can be waved and a 2007 Cub World Championship will come out of it.

Believe me, I'm as realistic as the rest of you. I see it on the field every day. This team isn't very good, and it doesn't have a lot of young talent in the pipeline (at least not that's going to be ready before 2008 or 2009).

I'm HAPPY to discuss REASONABLY, WITHOUT CONDESCENSION OR PROFANITY, the future of this club. Not all of it has to be, as you suggested the other day, making lists of statistics and predicting what might happen as a result of them. Not all teams perform to their statistical capabilities, either positive or negative.

Yes, "anything can happen", and if you have followed baseball long enough, you know this to be true. But sure, let's discuss the future. Openly. NO ONE is saying you can't.

Start it up.

by Al on Aug 26, 2006 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You question my intelligence....
...I am actually an extremely intelligent person, from both the standpoint of testing as well as common sense.  The fact that I want to ask a question to others about "why" it isn't possible for the Cubs to do something "similar" to what the Tigers have done this year, has nothing to do with you having to go completely out of your way to post an entire diary mocking that.  An "intelligent" person as you put it, would have read that diary, had a difference of opinion on the matter, then posted an intelligent comment.

"could come in here like santo for prez and say that Sean Marshall is going to win the Cy Young".....I was picturing Sean Marshall as a number 4 pr 5 starter...when the hell did I ever say that he was going to be an "ace" a "cy young winner or even a 20 game winner?  If you can find that statement anywhere I would be happy to write an entire diary kissing you ass.

"..while Aramis Ramirez wins the triple crown"....once again, completely false, where does my statement about ARam being a 30-40 HR guy ever point to any speculation that I think that he would be a triple crown candidate?  And my 30-40 HR comment by the way Mr.statistics...well nuff said about that one.

"So anything of any intelligence that I have to offer is immediately dismissed in favor of false belief"....An intelligent reply would have been in my diary.

You say that there is statistical evidence that proves that "next" season has no hope for the Cubs.  To me that sounds like you are going off of PECOTA, or rotoworld type projections because the only thing that past statistics can tell you is what a player did in the past.  Yes, I agree that the past stats can be a good indication of the future, which is also why I believe that guys like Barrett aren't going to hit .260 again and why I think ARam  will continue to hit 30-40 HRs per year, it's why I think that Z will be great next year (and hopefully cut down some walks), it's why I think Sean Marshall will be near the bottom of the rotation with the likes of Prior and why I feel that we need two FA pitchers in the offseason.  Without relying on the young guys so much next year the ERA should drop and one of those young guys should pan out.  Based on 2006 projections RonnyCedeno was supposed to bat .300 this year and be a slick gloving SS with a great arm.  Michael Barrett was projected to bat .265 and Murton was suppose to hit 14 HRs in 420 at-bats, by the way in his projections a lot of scouts predict that Murton will be a 20-25 HR guy if he ever gets to play everyday, which is exactly what I said in my diary.....I could see him being a 20 HR guy.  

How do we know what to expect at this point?  Maybe Hendry let's Pierre walk and we have Lofton roaming CF next year (that would make me happy), maybe someone approaches Hendry regarding Jones, maybe nothing good happens in the offseason.  Maybe all players that are playing well regress to what they have done previously....the answer to all of this is that we will never know...statistics cannot tell you for certainty what will happen next year....to say that I am less intelligent than you because I did not write a diary loaded with statistical evidence of what "could" happen next year is quite BS.  To write an entire diary mocking mine is quite BS.  

One more month!!!!!

by santo for prez on Aug 26, 2006 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ronny Cedeno
was projected as a marginal player with replacement level stats.  He hasn't even lived up to that level of production.  

but you're missing the point, santo.  I've never said there is statistical evidence that proves they have no chance.  Only real strong evidence to suggest that chance is very slim.  And no, it's not at all based on PECOTA.  It's based on the statistical odds of a team making the turnaround the Cubs need in order to reach the playoffs.

It's also based on the fact that the Cubs really don't have much money to spend and have not ever under the Tribune signed even one elite free agent.  it's based on what seems to be becoming a reality at this point in the Cubs re-signing Juan Pierre and once again fielding the worst outfield in MLB for the 3rd consecutive season.  

it's based on the premise that batting average is quite variant between one season and the next (look at the last 30 years and their batting title winners--how did they do the following year?  I believe the average is a 22 point decline for even the batting title winners...that says all you need to know).  It's based on past production being the best, and perhaps only means to guage what a person is capable of doing in the future.  It's not just one tool to use, santo, it's the best by far and it's not even close.  

Players all have a set of skills that are unique to them as individual players.  When a player hits a lot of doubles, we can expect that player to hit more home runs the following the season, but fewer doubles.  Obviously common sense tells us that a guy like Juan Pierre does not qualify for this, but a player like Murton most certainly would.  Murton has not hit many doubles or many home runs and has not ever hit many doubles or home runs in the minor leagues or college.  There's simply no reason to believe he's got that kind of power in himself for the 2007 season.  Perhaps in 4 or 5 years, yes, but not now.  No way!

Getting back to Pierre, stolen bases have a correlation coefficient of 0.81 meaning they, more than anything, are consistent from one season to the next.  It's a very safe bet to assume Pierre steals a great number of bases next season and that he also gets caught stealing far too many bases to make any of the successful ones valuable.  

We know a lot about this game and what these unique sets of skills tell us about these players.  No, they're not perfect and they never will be, but it's better than using scouts, managers, coaches and whatever other humans we have doing this now.  

There was a reason Corey Patterson never succeeded at this level and never will.  You could look at his minor league stats even though it was just a short period of time and see he was destined to fail from the beginning.  I knew it.  Others who take the time to understand this aspect of baseball knew it too.  

While what Sean marshall has done this season, his progression and even his ability to pitch deep into games isn't going to be what we'd need out of even a number 5 starter next season.  I think marshall will be a good pitcher in a few years, but not next year.  I could see next season being an even worse season, but having improved command.  It likely won't be better than this season.

I know you never said Marshall would win a Cy or that Ramirez was a Triple Crown winner next season, but it was the point.  I could come here and float ideas that maybe even you think is crazy (neifi Perez wins the triple crown because anything is possible and I believe it can happen) and there's not a damn thing you can say to argue with me about it because I've given you no foundation with which to argue.  That's what you're doing.  You have every right in doing so, but it's impossible to carry on a discussion with someone who isn't going to offer any evidence to back up what they're saying.  

All we've got at the end of the day, santo, is you saying one thing and me running over the same old information that you're tired of reading through because "it could happen" is a good enough reason for you to come to the conclusion you did.  

And you know what?  That's fine with me.  If we're sitting in a bar and talking about the Cubs, great.  If we're just listing our predictions for the 2007 season, great.  But it's not great when you're interested in having a discussion based on evidence.  

You say Ramirez should hit 30-40 homers next season.  I agree  That's the exact kind of projection that makes sense.  Look at his past production and there's no reason to believe AT THIS POINT that he's not capable of doing that in 2007.  

The same can be said for how the Cubs have handled themselve in the past.  We don't know for sure what the Cubs are going to do, but we have 25 years of past offseasons to look through under Tribune ownership to know what to expect.  Sure, it's possible they suprise the hell out of us, but not likely.  

Finally, this is a team I predicted to win 70-78 games.  I couldn't see any way they'd win more than 78 and didn't really think there was a way they could win less than 70.  So I took 74 as my final prediction.  Many were predicting this team to win 85-95 games, but I saw a team with a lot of holes.  I saw a team entering the offseason last year with a lot of holes and only a few were addressed.  I see this team having maybe twice as many holes as that team.  

if hendry goes out and has an impressive offseason, we're probably looking at a team that can win 78-86 games.  And considering where this team will finish, santo, that's one hell of an improvement and an excellent start.  If that happens and it happens again the following offseason we could feasibly contend in 2008.  That's not bad.  I'll take it.

It's probably not going to be that easy.  That's a best case scenario look in my opinion, but even if Hendry rebuilds this team so it can contend by 2009 I'm going to be happy.  If I see the progression from this team that needs to be made, I'm happy.  Ultimately the goal is to win the World Series, but there are many other goals in between considering how bad we are.  The first one is to simply improve.  

If the 2007 Cubs succeed at that, santo, I'll be happy.  

by Maddog on Aug 26, 2006 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not an unreasonable person...
...I agree with a lot of what you are saying and I think that you completely misunderstood my diary.  Here is the biggest key to understanding where I was coming from:

"I am not real knowledgeable about how Detroit played as a team last year (I started the deployment process in the beginning of July) so let me know why you think that either the Tigers were in the same situation as the Cubs are or why they were better off than this years Cubs are heading into next season."

I never said that the Cubs would be the best team in baseball next year.  

I agree with you on Pierre, I slightly agree with you on Marshall, I just think that with all of the rookies that we have seen, one of them should be able to fill that 5th spot next year.

I asked a legitimate question, as I stated in the diary about what situation the Tigers were in last year (I begin my mobilization process in June/July).  If you thought that it was the most idiotic diary in the world then you could have voiced your argument there.

I know baseball, I have always been involved, I know statistics and match-ups.  I understand players have career years.  I agree with you on many stand points but when I see so much of the negativity I am going to try to find something positive to say.  I am deployed and it hasn't been the most enjoyable year (plus) in my life.  Sometimes I just get sick and tired of hearing everyone insult each other and try to bring everyone else down.  Sometimes a little talk of hope can really pick people up.  

The real issue that I have had with this is not the statistics versus opinions......It is that you took my diary way out of context, then went out of your way to try and demean me with that bogus diary that you posted.  Not only did you try to piss all over someone, you did it in the grandest of fashions....That is what gets me most of all....but if you can't see that then I guess I don't know what else to say.  I have said and done stupid things in my life and I have owned up to it.  It isn't always easy, but hey, I guess I'm just that way.

One more month!!!!!

by santo for prez on Aug 26, 2006 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

santo for prez...
The Tigers began the rebuilding process during the 2003 season and they went hard after some free agents in that offseason (Pudge and Magglio) and then took some chances the following offseason (percival though that hasn't worked out like Pudge and Magglio).  

The difference in the chances that the Tigers took are in value.  Pudge and Magglio, if healthy, are great players.  Wade Miller, Ryan Dempster, and Williamson are marginal players.  If you're going to take a chance on an injured player, take it on one who has a chance to be really good.  The Cardinals did this with Chris Carpenter.

There's just little reason to pay a guy while he's rehabbing if all you can hope for is marginal returns on the investment.  

Also, the Tigers pitching is better.  Their defense is better.  They have a leadoff man who gets on base.  This is a team that was built to contend in 2007.  It began way back in 2003 and it was built the right way.  This team should contend for awhile.  

I don't think even the Tigers could have believed they'd be this good this fast, but I think they're coming somewhat back to earth of late and probably don't get past the 1st round in the playoffs.  

Next year, though, that's the year I'm guessing that Dombrowski had in mind as contending for the World Championship.  

For the Tigers it started with their young pitching, which is heads and shoulders better than what the Cubs have.  Don't get me wrong.  I think a few of these guys have bright careers ahead of them.  Guzman and Marmol as well as Marshall seem like 3 guys who are going to be pretty good in 3-4 years.  

But it really comes down to the tigers willingness to take chances on potentially great players.  

by Maddog on Aug 26, 2006 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you....
...I knew about the Pudge and Mags acquisitions but with them being in the cellar of the AL Central, I really hadn't paid much attention to them....which is why I asked why couldn't the Cubs do the same thing or what made the Tigers a team that was better off than this years Cubs.  You answered that question in this paragraph, I only wish that you had done so in my initial diary so that we all would not have had to endure the things that we have for the past couple of days.
One more month!!!!!

by santo for prez on Aug 26, 2006 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree 100 % with this...
and by signing those big free-agents early in the rebuilding cycle, dombowski provided some "cover" for the younger tigers to develop out of the spotlight. the cubs, by choosing not to pay (or even over-pay) for available f.a., have "forced" their "future" to develop in plain view. with little, if any, wiggle room for growing pains.

a thome at the end of 2002, or a pudge at the end of 2003, or a beltran at the end of 2004 (especially beltran, with the sosa era clearly closing) could have been the focus of the most intense scrutiny. but it seems to me (in retrospect, of course) that dusty was the big free agent signing; doubly un-successful due to his not producing as a player, and his under-producing as a manager.

i hope hendry has learned from these past 4 years. i would hate to see him treat the acquisition of a new manager as "the" signing of the winter. or, compound a felony by treating an extension of aramis (desperately important, i believe) as "the" big free agent signing of the winter. big fire-power is needed, either at the top of the rotation (genuine competition for zambrano) or a masher to slide in with lee and aram. preferably, both.

by dc60123 on Aug 26, 2006 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"dusty"
"not producing as a player"....he had a few .300 years IIRC but I never thought of him as a difference maker....thanks for reminding me though, I have some of his baseball cards....I think when I get home I may have a campfire and burn them....I want to be the first to "fire" him:)
One more month!!!!!

by santo for prez on Aug 26, 2006 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what i was driving towards...
and made a poor job of saying so, is that the 4 mil annually spent on dusty is 4 mil not available for actual ball-players. although the club will never list baker's/coaches' salaries as part of the "player payroll", it is clearly money that could be saved in the dugout and spent on better players.

by dc60123 on Aug 26, 2006 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
100%
One more month!!!!!

by santo for prez on Aug 26, 2006 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both Very Good Posts
Thanks for sharing the comments.

My outlook on the future of the Cubs is tempered because I do resent being sold Hope by an inept franchise each year.  The Tribune Co. has made money hand over fist by marketing the beauty and fun of being a fan of such (formerly) loveable losers and of -- oddly enough -- rendering Wrigley into a baseball Mecca instead of a place to watch your favorite team play baseball.  I'll get too riled up if I think back on comments like "the goal is to compete within the division."

My parents raised me a Cubs fan and I have great memories of that time, and I know several of you do as well.  But I'm not going out of my way to inculcate Cubs fandom in my son ... he's a Cubs fan, but his best friend is a White Sox fan and I certainly don't interfere with him going to games with his friend's family or with following the White Sox (though we've had to have some conversations about Ozzie's behavior -- can't stand that guy).  

Why should I steer my son toward a lifetime of rooting for a team that is poorly constructed and poorly managed year after year, decade after decade, with no sign that will change and with no incentive for it to change as long as they rake in everyone's hope-bucks?  I don't consider pouring money into the Cubs because of fond childhood memories or because 'maybe someday before I die they'll win and then I can say I've spent years of my life rooting for a team that finally won it all' to be sweet or indicative of high moral fiber or whatever Cubs fans are supposed to be.  

Maybe if they didn't profit off all the hope, I'd hope more freely than I do now.  

I can't help loving the Cubs.  But I can help pouring money into the warm fuzzy hope that they selling and letting them continue to rot at the bottom of the heap while celebrating a century of futility with their fans.

What does not kill you makes you stronger.

by Pa on Aug 26, 2006 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree...
...my post was not intended to say we don't have conversations and argue about whether or not the Cubs will be good or not, or what the future might hold, and to do so realistically, as that wouldn't be any fun at all (like you said, what's left to discuss?), I was merely saying that the schizophrenia of every Cubs fan will eventually kick in no matter what is decided on and everyone of us, contrary to the numbers, which have never been on our side, will enter next year thinking this could be the year no matter who is on the roster.  

You could say that about every fan base for every sports team, but especially so for Cubs's fans.  

by theprognosticator on Aug 26, 2006 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buck Coates in center
Wood for closer in 07

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Aug 26, 2006 11:48 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't know what happened.
But I think some records for longest post ever have been made.  Gaius is gone from one record.

I mostly like Maddog's posts, and I think he should post here more often.

Anyway, I never thought it would happen to me this quickly, but I'm not very hopeful for 2007.  I just don't trust Hendry or the Tribune, and I can't really argue with the stats above.

Also, what is up with Kerry Wood 05 is Mark Prior 06?  I've been very busy with not much Cubs in my schedule, and I'm not very well informed.  Is he having surgery?

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Aug 26, 2006 2:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sparkles...
Will Carroll wrote the other day that the Cubs have been told "2 words" about Mark Prior's most recent injury.  Those 2 words were Kerry Wood.  He said that Prior now has the same injury that Kerry Wood had at the end of '05 that he had surgery on and only made 4 or so starts this season.

by Maddog on Aug 26, 2006 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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