Home Grown Talent

by airweino on Aug 6, 2006 9:19 PM CDT

Alrighty, I believe this has been discussed multiple times in other diaries, but I do not remember a diary about it specifically.

As I sit here tonight watching the ESPN game between the Phillies and Mets listening to probably the worst announcer, Joe Morgan, I cannot help but feel a growing sense of frustration about the development of Cubs position players over the years. We seem to be alright at developing pitching prospects, but the position players are frankly killing us.

What a blessing to watch 4 of the best young players in this game - David Wright, Jose Reyes, Chase Utley, and Ryan Howard. These guys are good. To hear that the Mets have locked up both Reyes and Wright through 2012 or so is a scary thought when it comes to being competitve in the NL.

What exactly is the Cubs problem in this area and how can this problem be eliminated? ?

Is it how we draft young talent?

Is it who coaches them in the minors?

Is it how and when we choose to move them through the system?

Who determines this development and what needs to change?

The bottom line is that we cannot always sit back and hope for a free agent to fill a spot, especially since we never sign the ones who could help or want to be here (read Ivan Rodriguez, Miguel Tejada, Carlos Beltran, etc.)

The core seems to be there for a solid team over the next couple seasons - Zambrano, Lee, Ramirez, Barrett, Howry, Eyre, <cough> Prior, and Pierre if he is kept.

I just think it is going to be too difficult to build a team without developing some guys on our own.

Sorry for the long post, but had to get them out somewhere, and my wife would have just nodded and said, "I'm sorry."

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Comments

Alot of what you said is true....

and its mostly an organizational deficiencey imo. The FO tends to draft "toolsy" position prospects as opposed to drafting the most solid player available. That combined with the pitching heavy system produces a lack of quality position prospects. Although with Tim Wilken as the new director of scouting it will be interesting to see what direction the minor league system goes in during the next few years.

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Aug 6, 2006 9:34 PM CDT reply actions

I agree...

it seems like a huge percentage of "toolsy" prospects never seem to pan out in one or more important areas, because true "5 toolers" are a rare breed indeed. We need to start developing sluggers where we need sluggers, good defensive players where we need good defense, fast guys where we need fast guys etc. and then go for the OCCASIONAL 5-tooler when they seem most promising, because guys like Corey Patterson, Ryan Harvey, and possibly Felix Pie (still young and jury is still out) are NOT developing into superstar 5 toolers as hoped.

I do think that Wilken is a pretty solid scouting director, but I wish the Cubs would increase their pacific rim presence like it was when Leon Lee was on the job. Also, you can never have too many latin players. The Cubs system really needs Venezuelan's and Dominicans coming out of their ears.

by CosmicCharlie911 on Aug 6, 2006 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Latin America seems

to be a weak link to me as well.

by airweino on Aug 6, 2006 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah...

I meant to say something about that drafting strategy - I am sick of seeing Ryan Zimmerman-type players (maybe Rickie Weeks-like as well) going from college and advancing quickly through the minors to success in the majors.

I did not do any HW on this post, so where can one find recent baseball drafts?

by airweino on Aug 6, 2006 9:53 PM CDT reply actions

Alrighty, done being lazy...

here is where you can look at the first round of the first-year player drafts by decades: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/history/draft/index.jsp

Look at who we missed out on in some of the past few drafts: (BTW, I DO realize hindsight is 20-20!)

Glanville #12 (Manny Ramirez #13)
Derek Wallace???? #11
Kieschnick #10 (Billy Wagner #12, DLee #14)
Jayson Peterson???? #15
Wood #4
Todd Noel??? #17
Garland #10
Patterson #3
Ben Christianson #26
Luis Montanez #3 (Utley #15)
Prior #2
Brownlie #21 (Francoeur #23, Cain #25)
Harvey #6 (Milledge #12, Billingsley #24, Quentin #29)
No picks!

Interesting.

by airweino on Aug 6, 2006 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Tyler Colvin

is this year's pick. He's doing pretty well down in Boise after a bad start. He could be up quickly, except that Boise is a long way from Chicago and it's not in the Cubs nature to promote players quickly.

But he is the sort of polished college player that seem to be able to make the majors quickly these days.

by Josh Timmers on Aug 7, 2006 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions

Bingo

The problem is that Colvin "is" a polished college player. They should be promoted faster than a high school player. In the Cubs system they are not. In fact, it may well be a deteriment in the Cub system to be more "polished". The player not only has to learn the Cub "system" of swinging at everything, if they were the product of a good college system, they have to unlearn the concept of patience. By the time Colvin is ready to be promoted, he will be "too old" to be a real prospect and he will essentially be given one shot, and if he isn't hot when called up, or plays in the position occupied by one of Baker's Boys or Pinella's Pets, he isn't even going to get a meaningful shot.

If the Cubs are not going to set up a faster track for the college boys, they should stop drafting them.

by frustratedfan on Aug 7, 2006 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions

Names?

I'm curious to know which players specifically the Cubs drafted out of college and then failed to promote in a timely manner? The Cubs prior 1st round picks Patterson, Montanez, and Harvey did not attend college. Pie, Dopirak and Sing didn't attend college either. Some guys that did attend college are Jake Fox, Tony Richie, Kyle Reynolds, Casey McGehee, Eric Patterson, Ryan Theriot, Nic Jackson, and Chris Walker. Which of these players should be (or should have been) on a faster track? Patterson maybe? Theriot?

They played hard. They did their best. Move on. Their whole life isn't out in that field. It's their job. It's not an obsession.

by McHuge on Aug 7, 2006 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Agree

I don't know who the Cubs have hurt through slow promotion. A player has to perform before being promoted. Colvin seems to be hitting better but it's not like he's tearing it up and needs to be promoted.

For a college guy in another org from this recent draft that is tearing it up and is on the fast track look at Evan Longoria. His average at his three stops so far this year: .424, .327, .333. Just a little better than Colvin.

by rlpete on Aug 7, 2006 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Rebuttal

Interesting? Try extremely depressing.

by Mike63 on Aug 7, 2006 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions

boy that

is depressing, I would have loved to have Utley on this team.

Wood for closer in 07

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Aug 7, 2006 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions

They didn't pick Manny?

Or Utley?

Some of these are pretty high. Either we can't develop or don't have good scouts. Or both.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Aug 7, 2006 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions

agree

I believe with the change of Wilken will improve the system. How in the world can a franchise have Mark Grace as there best position player in the last 17 years, unaceptable.
Pie and Harvey have come on late, and are performing much better. They need those two to become solid players.

But your right, I am from Delaware and see the Phillies have Howard, Utley, Rollins and to an extent Burrell play at a high level, kills me. Cubs need a turnaround in the minors.

Wood for closer in 07

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Aug 6, 2006 10:08 PM CDT reply actions

Great thread

The Cubs haven't been adept at deveolping positional prospects since the days of the Dallas Green administration. I think player selection philosophy and instructional/coaching focus both can be pointed to. Ed Lynch, Andy McPhail and Jim Hendry have greatly disappointed in this department. McPhail came to Chicago under the strength of being a strong player development guy in Minnesota. What happened Andy?

by Mike63 on Aug 7, 2006 10:33 AM CDT reply actions

I'll tell you what happened to MacFAIL...

He realized that the CUBS organization is a CASH COW!! You give fans some false hope, go after mediocre free agents then sit back and let the money flow in!

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 7, 2006 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions

Hopefully under Wilken

the system will move players along. Does he make the call on the players to move up in the system?
If not, who moves these players up a level. It is almost like the Cubs are so hesitant to move players up because if they do fail, they take the hit. Then at 25 years of age at AAA, players level off and show no improvement and turn into a Jason Dubois.

Wood for closer in 07

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Aug 7, 2006 1:23 PM CDT reply actions

the bottom line is The Cubs just have drafted poorly for the last 20 years.

Wood for closer in 07

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Aug 7, 2006 1:24 PM CDT reply actions

How sad is it though

that the 5th and 6th names on your core list are middle relievers.

As for your question, I really don't know. The Cubs in general draft "tools" position players. These guys are frequently higher risk/higher reward as they have flaws in their game. So either they aren't properly scouting them or they can't develop them. They may also rely too heavily on them. Maybe the selection of Colvin this year is a realization that a mix is needed. Cubs also appear to be weak in Latin America as I don't see many prospects coming from there.

by rlpete on Aug 7, 2006 1:51 PM CDT reply actions