How bad do you want Baker gone?

by Richie Hebner 18 on Aug 9, 2006 12:00 PM CDT

There's a sense that some would rather have the Cubs lose now for a better chance of winning later.

Some want to win now, regardless of how that may affect player/personnel moves this winter.

If the Cubs could go 36-14 and win the Wild Card, but it meant a two-year extension for Baker, would you choose that?

If the Cubs could go 14-36 and lose 100 games, and Baker would be gone, would you choose that?

How bad do you want Baker gone?

Poll

Winning now vs. Baker's removal

Give me the Wild Card. I can handle two more years of Dusty

62 votes

We've suffered this long. Give me 100 losses and a new mgr.

46 votes

108 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Comments

Exactly...

There's a sense that some would rather have the Cubs lose now for a better chance of winning later.<<<<<<<

that's where i stand........

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 9, 2006 12:09 PM CDT reply actions

Win

A want to Cubs to win regardless of who's the manager. If you are cheering for them to lose so they might change managers then I question whether or not you really are a Cubs fan at all.

by NorthernLights1972 on Aug 9, 2006 12:09 PM CDT reply actions

Right On

Could not agree more with that post. Neither Lou Piniella nor Joe Girardi are going to magically turn this team into a contender. If by some chance it happened under Dusty's watch I would be ecstatic - and it would not change the way I feel about his managerial skills (or lack thereof).

by Doug Dascenzo on Aug 9, 2006 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions

Love your username

I remember very well your errorless streak and those games you pitched in 1991.

by cubsbak on Aug 9, 2006 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Don't question my loyalty....

this season is a joke anyway.....If they continue to win, it will be a joke for the next 2 seasons.........just think....even if they do win the Wild Card......make it to the WS....they aren't competing with ANY AL team.....

Of course I love to see them win, every game.....the day/night is better when they do...I hate wishing them to lose, but it's for the best.......in some ways....I don't know...I am really confused....I want Hill, Z and Prior to win every start but i don't want them to win for Baker?? Ugh, I need to shut up....

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 9, 2006 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions

So there's no point in playing well...

Because we'd lose in the World Series? hmm...questionable.

by thekansasian on Aug 9, 2006 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions

why

i think we have a chance in the world series...and for dusty id keep him regardless. stability is what this franchise has been lacking for years. KEEP DUSTY. IN DUSTY I STILL TRUSTY. now go ahead and talk about me i do not care

by tbizzle83 on Aug 9, 2006 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm right there with ya...

I've given my view many times on Baker in this blog. Stability is one of the arguments. 8 managers in the last 20 years (not counting interims) hasn't worked so well...why not try stability? After all we have a 3 time manager of the year, I doubt we get anyone much better.

by wicubfan on Aug 9, 2006 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions

how about stability

with two people good at their jobs?

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 9, 2006 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions

At least we have common ground

Whether Baker is a good manager or not can be argued. I'm just afraid the Cubs go ahead and get Girardi (or flavor of the month) and the Cubs have 1 good year followed by 2 bad ones and the natives then want his head as well.

by wicubfan on Aug 9, 2006 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions

No making fun.

Unless "tbizzle" is on your birth certificate...then I might make fun, a little.

by jcub on Aug 9, 2006 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions

lol

nope tyrell eugene craig bell but id rather have tbizzle than eugene lol

by tbizzle83 on Aug 9, 2006 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions

Just win baby.

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt & Lee. Its Mulder, Durham & Cameron instead.

by CubFaninCA on Aug 9, 2006 12:17 PM CDT reply actions

Second

Dusty Baker is the current manager of the Cubs. I pull for the Cubs to win. I have no control over wheather Dusty Baker gets fired or gets an another 2 years.

I would have Steve Garvey manage, Sammy Sosa coach 3rd and Steve Bartman coach first if it meant winning.

You're never a loser untill you quit trying - FortuneCookie

by Scott G F on Aug 9, 2006 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes you do.

you are impotent, you DO have SOME power.

by Santos Sorrow @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 9, 2006 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions

that should be "aren't"

n/t

by Santos Sorrow @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 9, 2006 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Might as well just go for the division

it's about as likely.

What does not kill you makes you stronger.

by Pa on Aug 9, 2006 12:50 PM CDT reply actions

To be honest...

....it might be more likely. Less teams to catch, and only one good team to catch (Cards), as opposed to trying to run down the Dodgers/Padres, whoever finishes 2nd in the west.

by ontheuptick on Aug 9, 2006 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Either I Want the Cubs to Win the WC or

Hope they lose 100 games to ditch Dusty? What kind of extremist nonsense is this? I'm not even gonna vote on it. I want the Cubbies to win--to show flashes of the team that played in April, before the Lee injury. Whilst I'm tired with the never-ending Excuse of the Day, they're still my Cubbies. I'll be there whether they're over, at, or under .500.

The management of the team needs to deal with the present instead of always thinking how things will change for the better when Player X, Y, or Q gets healthy. Freakin' pie in the sky.

As much as I cannot stand the Yankees, they dealt with their injury problems this season in a manner I cannot ever hope the Cubs--under current management--would.

Proactivity would help a whole lot. And right now, I don't really care who shows it. And if nobody shows it, begone!

"The good news is, the Cubs have reached rock bottom. The bad news is, they've started to dig." Bob V., May 2006, WGN Baseball Blog ...

by Littlerock Rynofan on Aug 9, 2006 1:25 PM CDT reply actions

The problem I have

is that I don't think Jim Hendry is going to realize that Dusty shouldn't be the manager of a big league team, whether we win or lose the rest of our games. Maybe Hendry will still fire Baker but that won't mean he still doesn't believe Dusty is a good manager, just that the well is too poisoned for Dusty to manage here. I wish Hendry had a better idea of what makes talented ball players and coaches but from the looks of it I don't think he knows. So whether we win or lose from here on out might be important in determining Dustys job status, but the guy who sets the organizational philosophy just doesn't get it. In other words, what good is firing Dusty if he just goes out and gets another one, since he probably doesn't know any better?

by pageian on Aug 9, 2006 1:29 PM CDT reply actions

If they go 32 & 18 down the stretch

keep Baker, cause it shows the current cast rallied around him. Yes, he makes some ridiculous tactical moves, but what really gets me is how the team fell apart after Lee's injury. It seemed like Baker was feeling sorry for himself, and that the team followed suit.

I'm rooting for 32-18, cause it means the young guys actually played good for a change, and Prior probably remains healthy, which is a minor miracle.

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt & Lee. Its Mulder, Durham & Cameron instead.

by CubFaninCA on Aug 9, 2006 1:38 PM CDT reply actions

I agree completely.

It's not likely, of course... but if there's a miracle and the Cubs could claim the wild card with even a .500 record -- once you get into the playoffs, all bets are off. Wild cards have made the World Series in each of the last four years and won three of them.

The 2000 Yankees won their division and the WS, even though they had the NINTH-best record in baseball.

I'll take a win, however it works.

by Al Yellon on Aug 9, 2006 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions

IF 2003 Mark Prior

comes back, along w/ a semi-health Derek Lee, this teams dangerous in the playoffs. All you really need are 2 stud pitchers & the Cubs pen is pretty good...

Huge IF's though. The Cubs probably have to go 36-14 to make the wild card.

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt & Lee. Its Mulder, Durham & Cameron instead.

by CubFaninCA on Aug 9, 2006 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions

36-14...

... would be 84 wins. That might do it in this bizarre year. But 36-14 is a REAL stretch.

I'm NOT sitting here counting on it, or even hoping.

It'd be fun, though, wouldn't it?

by Al Yellon on Aug 9, 2006 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions

No doubt.

Would make my summer. I might even re-purchase cable, cause there will actually be something on to watch. :)

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt & Lee. Its Mulder, Durham & Cameron instead.

by CubFaninCA on Aug 9, 2006 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions

How bizarre..

would it be if the Cubs made the playoffs and the Sox didn't..I ain't saying...just saying..

by wicubfan on Aug 9, 2006 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions

If that happened

it would pretty much be the highlight of my life...

by cubsbak on Aug 9, 2006 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Hey CubFaninCA....

Are you a skateboarder???? Because that was a bitchin' 180!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;)

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 9, 2006 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm a liberal ;)

and can change when the information changes. I think there's a very slim chance of 32-18. 18-32 is A LOT more likely.

I'll say a .00000001% chance of 32-18..

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt & Lee. Its Mulder, Durham & Cameron instead.

by CubFaninCA on Aug 9, 2006 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't understand this poll

Regardless of anybody's feelings on Dusty, who wouldn't want a wild card and a playoff appearance over 100 losses? Is this a joke?

by cubsbak on Aug 9, 2006 1:44 PM CDT reply actions

apparently...

some people.

by thekansasian on Aug 9, 2006 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Bakerhate runs very deep

by Richie Hebner 18 on Aug 9, 2006 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions

Some of the ideaologues

might be pissed about a World Series appearance, cause the Cub organization doesn't emphasize the walk, and this will never be addressed if Baker & Hendry stick around. I'm not kidding here!

Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt & Lee. Its Mulder, Durham & Cameron instead.

by CubFaninCA on Aug 9, 2006 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't understand it

The Cubs have made the playoffs a measly 4 times since 1945. I'd give almost anything to see them in the playoffs again. I can't imagine a Cubs fan would think otherwise.

by cubsbak on Aug 9, 2006 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions

I couldn't agree more

n/t

by wicubfan on Aug 9, 2006 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions

you

clearly have no idea what some people are saying, even if i am not rooting against them I understand that the reslut of "doing well" may be worse than them losing 100.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 9, 2006 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions

What it would take for me to root against the Cubs

In Sept. 2007 the Cubs have clinched both the division
and home field advantage but have a remaining series
against the Dodgers. Maddux is pitching for his 20th win
and 5th Cy Young ( over Z I am afraid). Ok then I think
I could root for the Dodgers over the Cubs.

Otherwise I am a Cubs fan. Losing accomplishes nothing
just check out the hell we went through from May till
the AS break.I don't get wanting a team you love to lose
because maybe something "good" i.e Baker being fired
will come of it.

by jessica on Aug 9, 2006 1:59 PM CDT reply actions

Truth be told

I want Dusty back in 2007, if for no other reason than to see some of the Dusty bashers go into total vapor lock upon announcment of his contract extension.

by Mike63 on Aug 9, 2006 2:06 PM CDT reply actions

this makes almost as much sense

as the people who want the opposite--for the cubs to lose and fire baker. seriously.

we're all cubs fans! can't we agree that we just want to win!!!?

by jag alskar bjornungarna on Aug 9, 2006 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes

let's bring Dusty back because a majority of fans, based on his performance, think he's done a bad job.

President of the Dusty/Hendry Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Aug 9, 2006 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Makes as much sense

as his lineups and double-swtiches.

Peter: "Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits! It says, 'Oooooo!'"
Brian: - "Peter, those are Cheerios." - Family Guy

by VS on Aug 9, 2006 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Makes as much sense

as Korey leading off and Neifi batting second.

President of the Dusty/Hendry Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Aug 9, 2006 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions

Another typically

brilliantly idiotic post by the most hate filled jackass on this site.

Replace the ivy with hemlock

by jc60625 on Aug 9, 2006 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions

How many times do I have to say it?

STOP THE NAMECALLING!!!!!

by Al Yellon on Aug 9, 2006 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions

Al...

How did you make the letters so large?

My Immediate Kindness Eventually Sets Up Cool Kosier Status.

by santo for prez on Aug 9, 2006 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions

The HTML tag for that is...

... put your text here

where x=a number greater than 0.

The text above is +4.

I think I'm going to be sorry I mentioned this.

by Al Yellon on Aug 9, 2006 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Hmmm.

Didn't seem to work, did it?

Forgot one other thing, but I'm thinking maybe I'll let you figure it out for yourselves.

by Al Yellon on Aug 9, 2006 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions

Like this?

CUBS WIN!!!

My Immediate Kindness Eventually Sets Up Cool Kosier Status.

by santo for prez on Aug 9, 2006 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions

apparently not!

n/t

by Al Yellon on Aug 10, 2006 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, I know...

...I have been trying to figure it out.....obviously I haven't gotten very far:)

My Immediate Kindness Eventually Sets Up Cool Kosier Status.

by santo for prez on Aug 10, 2006 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Hint:

Look around the boxes you use for posting. It's really quite simple. You'll slap your forehead when you figure it out.

by Al Yellon on Aug 10, 2006 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions

Lets give it the old school-boy try

Loud voices!!!

Peter: "Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits! It says, 'Oooooo!'"
Brian: - "Peter, those are Cheerios." - Family Guy

by VS on Aug 11, 2006 3:55 AM CDT up reply actions

Pffft...

Peter: "Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits! It says, 'Oooooo!'"
Brian: - "Peter, those are Cheerios." - Family Guy

by VS on Aug 11, 2006 3:56 AM CDT up reply actions

I tried that too..

..I actually googled it and according to every site that I looked on it should be <font="+4">text or it should also work without the quotations like Al did the first time. But like Al said, I'll probably slap myself in the forhead when I figure it out.

My Immediate Kindness Eventually Sets Up Cool Kosier Status.

by santo for prez on Aug 12, 2006 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions

I tried to change from .

..auto format to HTML formatted but that isn't working either. NOW!!

My Immediate Kindness Eventually Sets Up Cool Kosier Status.

by santo for prez on Aug 12, 2006 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions

LOL...

.."I think I'm going to be sorry I mentioned this."

You're probably right there:)

My Immediate Kindness Eventually Sets Up Cool Kosier Status.

by santo for prez on Aug 9, 2006 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions

We all want the Cubs to win...

a World Series. I would take Baker for 10 years if we win it.

But no World Series, no Baker.

I want to see wins though because that means that players are succeeding. There are very few players on this team I don't like(that doesn't mean I think they should keep them), and I want them ALL to succeed.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Aug 9, 2006 3:47 PM CDT reply actions

It's so funny how many people

are flip flopping now that they are winning.

by TheBeerBaron on Aug 9, 2006 4:52 PM CDT reply actions

Like who?

Peter: "Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits! It says, 'Oooooo!'"
Brian: - "Peter, those are Cheerios." - Family Guy

by VS on Aug 9, 2006 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions

baker the problem?

is dusty really the problem here?why doesn't anyone mention hendry?he is just as much to "blame"as dusty and probably more so!!seems like every cub player has at least one glaring weakness.except for maybe d.lee and his has been injury this year.and that isn't mentioning the pitching!let's break this down.murton-zero power,average arm,pierre-terrible arm,can't hit with risp,and zero power,jones-no arm,average power,ramirez-can't run,limited range,lazy izturis-no power,low batting average,cedeno-lack of patience at the plate,zero power,low batting average,barrett-poor at gunning down runners stealing!sure they have strengths but i think these weaknesses in the long haul of a season eventually add up to a losing record!!

by cubz409 on Aug 9, 2006 5:35 PM CDT reply actions

Is Baker THE problem

No. Most Dusty bashers won't say that Baker is THE problem. Is he A problem. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. The question should not be whether:

Dusty Baker is THE problem
Firing Dusty Baker will solve all of the problems
Firing Dusty Baker will guarantee that next year's team is better.

None of those are a given, or perhaps even likely. The question is whether the Cubs will, in the long term, have a better chance of winning the World Series WITH Dusty Baker or WITHOUT Dusty Baker. To me its a pretty easy equation. Baker can't fill out a lineup card. Baker abuses and damages his pitchers. Baker doesn't get the best efforts out of his players. Baker isn't good at handling the clubhouse and allows his players to get out of control. Baker isn't good with game strategy (he will often back himself into a corner with bad substitution patterns). Baker isn't good with game tactics (he has a prediliction to use some tactics and not use others, notwithstanding the probabilities of success or failure). Baker doesn't understand OBP and the value of getting on Base. Baker will require a more expensive team becuase you will have to give him a number of "overpaid" older players to take key roles that could better be served by younger, cheaper players.

Based on the foregoing, I think it is a resoundingly clear that a team without Baker has a better chance to compete. Firing him is not a magic bullet, but its a step, even if its only a baby step, in the right direction.

by frustratedfan on Aug 9, 2006 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions

My take on the this..

..is hard for me to say. I think that Baker is truly a horrible manager. He had an opportunity to turn this organization around. I think that Dusty is a lazy, stubborn sack of crap that does just enough to draw his paycheck (which is pretty big for a guy who does nothing more than sit on his bum and watch a baseball game).

As much as I don't want Dusty to be the manager next year, if the Cubs found a way to make it to the playoffs and then made a few tweaks of improvement in the offseason, if they could carry it into next season and go all the way...I really don't care if we have Coach Buttermaker in the dugout (which is about the same as Dusty).

I just want the Cubs to be winners. Even though anything is possible, I think that we are getting a little ahead of ourselves with all of this talk. It would also be possible for me to win the lotto, but I am not going to start planning my ways to spend the winnings.

My Immediate Kindness Eventually Sets Up Cool Kosier Status.

by santo for prez on Aug 9, 2006 5:45 PM CDT reply actions