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Baker Coming Back?

I realize that most of the posters on this forum think that it is a foregone conclusion that Baker is not coming back next season.  I hope that they are right, but I am afraid that they are wrong.   If the Cubs "finish strong", I can see Hendry keeping Baker noting that he had so many key injuries this year and he still kept the ball club together.  After all, look how strong they finished (8-3 in their last 11 games) and look at the young guys that have been developed for next season.  

And the interviews being given by Baker are the kind of interviews given by a Manager who does not expect to be fired, but expects to be back.   Consider some of the quotes being reported from the Dan Jiggets' interview about Baker doing his best.  And no comments from Hendry at all about Baker, which is also suggestive of the fact that he is not going to throw Baker under the bus.  

I think Baker is staying.

Poll
Does Baker Manage the Cubs in 2007
No. But he should be back.
4 votes
No. And that's a good thing.
23 votes
Yes. And that's a bad thing.
8 votes
Yes. And that's a good thing.
2 votes
Yes. And even if you ar right, you are crazy to make the claim.
0 votes
Maybe. It all depends on whether Hendry returns.
0 votes
Yes. And Hendry is not back.
0 votes
No. Are you crazy?
13 votes
No. You are crazy!
19 votes

69 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs  |  Comment 38 comments

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can we have a category
in the poll for "should not be back but we cheer for the Cubs and the Cubs are starting Les Walrond tonight so who knows what will happen."

Cause that's the one I would choose.

by tal1286 on Sep 20, 2006 12:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hendry
This may be giving him a bit too much credit, however he has to know the sentiment in Chicago (at least on the North Side) is that of pure animosity towards Baker.

After watching him pull out every stupid move in his book (which by now should look like a college thesis) Hendry needs to acknowledge that before it's going to get any better, it's going to get much worse.

Then again, this is Jim Hendry we're talking about, so god only knows.

Let's hope he does the right thing.

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Sep 20, 2006 12:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Finish strong?
I don't think that's possible anymore...
Forget Zito, Soriano, Schmidt, Matsuzaka & Lee. Its Eaton, Kennedy, Wood, Pie in CF, and a backup RH OF instead.

by CubFaninCA on Sep 20, 2006 12:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Baker's gone
How the Cubs play the final 10 games of the season is not at all indicative of what we could have expected Baker to do with his "horses" were they healthy.  There's no reason to think that if the Cubs win the final 10 games of the season that Hendry will re-sign him.  THIS team and the one the Cubs had hoped to have are not the same.  If THIS team was the team the Cubs hoped to have in April or May and they won 10 in a row, you may be on to something here, but that's just not the case.  

Baker is gone.  No doubt about that.

by Maddog on Sep 20, 2006 12:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If Dusty were coming back...
the tribune wouldn't have been playing up his departure, and looking at possible replacements so much.

by Thelonious on Sep 20, 2006 12:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Tribune...
....isn't doing that as some orchestrated plan. That's over thinking this far too much.

by BeerCub on Sep 20, 2006 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not a forgone...
...conclusion that Baker will be fired. It's hard to imagine that Hendry's opinion of Baker has changed much over the course of the last four years. Unless that is Hendry didn't know much about Baker prior to signing him.

Hendry could come to the conclusion that his career either sinks or swims with Baker and with the fact that Hendry has only a two year extension it will be highly unlikely to sign a seasoned manager to anything less than 3 years. He also could be leary of signing a rookie manager that in his opinion might take a couple of years to yield success and that's a couple of years Big Jim can't afford. Hendry knows that Baker is a proven commodity(at least he still is to those on ESPN) and it might be a safer bet to stick it out with him rather than the alternative.

I don't mean to bring anyone down but don't be surprised if he's still a Cub for at least the next 2 years.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Sep 20, 2006 12:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

About a rookie manager....
... remember that Hendry likes hiring/acquiring people he knows or has worked with.

Fredi Gonzalez and Hendry worked together in the Marlins organization; Hendry was a scout, Gonzalez a minor league manager. This seems the most likely way he'll go.

About Baker, the atmosphere around Baker is poisoned similar to how the atmosphere around Corey Patterson was at the end of last year. Patterson HAD to go. For the same reasons, Baker HAS to go.

by Al on Sep 20, 2006 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking the same thing
that Baker has inherited the bad mojo that surrounded Patterson & Hawkins last year.

by JFCubFan on Sep 20, 2006 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baker's gone...
This will give the Tribune more of a distraction for the fan base. Imagine the offseason we'd need to calm us if they kept Baker.

Not bringing back Dusty will be a highly publicized 'step forward' and grant JH a little more leeway in the offseason.

Extreme hopes are born from extreme misery. -Bertrand Russell

by thekansasian on Sep 20, 2006 12:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No, but he should be back
Someone answered this.  Does this person wish to give any support for this answer?   Do we actually have someone on BCB that thinks Baker "should" be back (as opposed to thinks he "will" be back).

by frustratedfan on Sep 20, 2006 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i hope not
A few weeks I boldly declared that if Dusty Baker was in the Cubs dugout next year I wouldn't go to Wrigley. I really hope they don't call my bluff on that. I'd have a hard time staying away. Though it would allow me the opportunity to ask this at the convention: Mr. Hendry. Considering the team's performance the past few years and the fact that he has managed to alienate a large portion of the fan base, what exactly was your thought process when rehiring Dusty Baker?
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Sep 20, 2006 1:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Imagine this
The Cubs don't look to be a playoff team in 2007. If that were not the case, Hendry could take a slight chance that Baker would turn the 90+ losses around.

However, if he didn't and the team had another poor year, and that includes a .500 performance, Hendry would spend every waking hour trying to defend his decision. Even as close as the two used to be, I doubt Jim would be willing to accept that. And certainly the Trib doesn't look forward to that negative energy surrounding the team when it has its own set of financial difficulties.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Sep 20, 2006 1:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Not a chance
"grant JH a little more leeway in the offseason".

The only places Hendry should be looking for some leeway is with the fans and my fear is that with a rookie manager the organization would take advantage of lowered expectations.

"Not bringing back Dusty will be a highly publicized 'step forward"

Look, I'm not in favor of bringing back Baker but the majority of cubdom considered the hiring of Baker a "step forward". What's changed in the last 4 years? Either the majority of cub fans didn't know much about Baker and his managerial tendencies or they have selective memory. Remember the embarrasing "In Dusty we Trusty"? Well, what's changed?

"About Baker, the atmosphere around Baker is poisoned similar to how the atmosphere around Corey Patterson was at the end of last year. Patterson HAD to go. For the same reasons, Baker HAS to go".

The poison around Patterson was injected into the atmosphere by the tribune. How does a guy go from having an All Star beginning to a season in '03(remember he was on pace for 25hr and 100rbi), tears up his knee, Patterson then follows that up with a 24hr 72rbi '04 season. Then in '05(after having how many coaches screwing with this guys head?) he becomes the pariah of chicago. The cubs wanted him to become a leadoff hitter, which was never going to happen and they trashed him in the media.

As far as Baker is concerned the Cubs have gone out of their way to protect him. Remember the "Lynching" quote that was whitewashed from the trib? Well there are plenty other examples that could be used. If the Cubs are going to get rid of Baker then who is going to allow whom to start the war of words first? The cubs know Baker's nature in that he will fire shots at them once he departs, afterall, Baker has a career and reputation to uphold. The cubs have also resorted to trashing former employee's in the past ie; patterson and Sosa so they won't be immune to that type of behavior if the departing of Baker is imminent. The point is neither party has taken to finger pointing which indicates to me that the relationship may still be solid.

Again, don't be surprised if Baker's services are retained.

Sorry for my incoherant ramblings, my lunch our is about to end.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Sep 20, 2006 2:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If Dusty is back
There'll be more tham a couple Hendry effigies hung in front of Dunkin' Donuts franchises thoughout the Chicagoland area.

by Santos Sorrow on Sep 20, 2006 2:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Do you...
... have stock in Dunkin Donuts, or what?

Look, we know Jim Hendry is overweight. These remarks aren't funny. Maybe I'd take you more seriously if you stopped.

by Al on Sep 20, 2006 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correction...
Those jokes were funny. They grew old after the first 50.
Extreme hopes are born from extreme misery. -Bertrand Russell

by thekansasian on Sep 20, 2006 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

point taken
on to Zingers, Ho-Hos, and Twinkies

by Santos Sorrow on Sep 20, 2006 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's all I'm asking...
You want to make fun of him, go ahead. But I think I've heard Krispy Kreme (from others) and Dunkin Donuts (from you) about a million times.

Spice it up. Be original. I'd rather read (although I'm not always wild about) "Hendry and Baker can't be seperated; Dusty's toothpicks get pulled from Hendry's Double Bacon Cheeseburgers every meal" rather than "Jim Hendry is fat and stupid."

Extreme hopes are born from extreme misery. -Bertrand Russell

by thekansasian on Sep 20, 2006 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your right, I've gotten fat and lazy
with the Hendry quips (hey kinda like Cruller Jim)  In the future, I pledge to ridicule the alcholism and morbid obesity in a more original manner.  I have seen the light.

by Santos Sorrow on Sep 20, 2006 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's all good Santos
now just switch it over to krispy kreme or mcdonalds or something.
"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Sep 20, 2006 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that having been said
I still get a little chuckle out of em'.
"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Sep 20, 2006 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Goodness Al...
...you make it sound as though SS is insulting a family member.
cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Sep 20, 2006 4:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's not that...
... it's exactly what one of the others here said -- it gets really lame after the 50th time. Move on to new material, if you insist on attempting to be funny.

I'd much rather see constructive criticism, myself.

by Al on Sep 20, 2006 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is simply...
... more misrepresentation of my positions.

by Al on Sep 21, 2006 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For example,
my now infamous comment to Freddy Bynum's face isn't funny anymore. (".....you stink....") Been there, done that. Jokes about Hendry's girth mean nothing anymore, and are pointless after the 357th one.

by Smooth Jazz Man San Diego on Sep 20, 2006 8:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

can we
paraphrase the famous Dean Wormer line from Animal House?

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life Jim.

by pwhalen on Sep 20, 2006 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Jokes About Hendry's Weight....
....or comments about alcohol use are juvenile and unnecessary. Criticize his job performance all day long, but show a little class. Making it gratuitously personal is nothing short of asinine.

by BeerCub on Sep 20, 2006 9:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Not justfying it
however, if he has a problem with alcohol, then why is he still our GM?

He should seek help.

NOT JUSTIFYING TAKING SHOTS AT IT, I AM MERELY SAYING

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Sep 20, 2006 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I'm unfamiliar...
does he have alcoholism? What's the story?
Extreme hopes are born from extreme misery. -Bertrand Russell

by thekansasian on Sep 20, 2006 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

From what
I've heard there was. I'm not 100% sure though.
"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Sep 20, 2006 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baker is gone
Girardi will be here, that is my story and sticking to it.

Just a hunch, Marlins no playoffs, Management won't feel obligated to keep him in FLA.
Joe lands in Wrigley, next day Nova, Rusch,Bynum, Pagan,Mabry gone. Cedeno to AAA.

Throw out your Gold Teeth and see how they Roll

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Sep 21, 2006 12:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Does that mean
we won't be getting any more high profile free agents that flocked to Dusty the past 3 years?
Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Sep 21, 2006 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's no way
anymore that Baker will be back.  There's a lot of negativity surrounding the Cubs right now.  This would be a marketing nightmare and if there's one thing the Cubs do not mess up it's marketing.  

There's a strong argument to be made that Baker is a good manager, but it's a more difficult argument to say that things have worked out well with him as manager.  

There's no way he gets re-signed (and that is differnt than getting fired).

by NO100 on Sep 21, 2006 11:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Baker as Good Manager
While I don't agree with this, I suspect that this would be the argument.
  1.  Dusty Baker has won more than 1000 games as a manager.  Coming into the the season he was nearly a full season's worth of games over .500 (about plus 150).
  2.   He had a seven year stretch in which his teams finished first or second.  He used the same managing philosophy then as now.  
  3.  This year's Cub team lost its two most important pitchers for essentially the full season (Wood and Prior) and its best hitter (Lee) for most of the season and its second best hitter for a significant number of games (Barrett).   The young player in the minors that could have replaced the injured best hitter was also hurt and could not be called up to replace the star.   Thus Baker was forced to completely change his line up and who played to "fix this".   He also had key injuries to important parts of the bullpen.  He also had key injuries to important bench/starters in Pagan and Bynum -- both of whom missed large parts of the season.  Finally, an expected keypart of the staff in Miller took longer than anticipated to recover from an injury.
  4.  The young players that he was forced to use (Murton and Cedeno) had sophmore slumps.  One of them, Cedeno, hasn't recovered at all, and the other has no power in a critical power position.
  5.  The minor league coaches do not follow his hitting and pitching philosophies and thus the young players don't play the game correctly.  
  6.  His key free agent took time to adjust and once he came around, the star was hurt.
  7.  The MVP of the team from the prior year (Perez) did not have an MVP caliber year.  
  8.  The racist fans mistreated at least one of his key players by booing him without cause resulting in a decline in production.
  9.   He had an experienced pitcher in Greg Maddux who did not subscribe to the philosophy of the pitching coach and the manager and set a bad example by continuing to pitch in a different way.
Based on the foregoing, Baker should be given a chance to use his proven winning management philosophy with a team made up of uninjured Baker preferred Veterans in an enviornment of support and love where no fan or sportswriter speaks a harsh word.

by frustratedfan on Sep 21, 2006 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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