A Different Take on Girardi
I didn't see anything else about this, so I thought I'd pass it along to see reactions. Though I am reluctant to give Rick Morrissey any credit, his article does highlight this detail about Girardi's tenure in Florida (which, I suppose, should be obvious):
"But it needs to be pointed out the Marlins have a history of fielding low-budget teams and having success. They scout well. The short story: The Marlins' success this season wasn't a solo production."
I'm not saying Girardi fits or he doesn't, but looking back over the Marlins' long-term low-budget success (must we Cub fans be reminded?) is a nice wake-up call to reconsider just how much impact Girardi's really had.
peace,
hoosiercubbie
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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What...
When was this?
by hoosiercubbie on Sep 24, 2006 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I think there's something to be said
Larry Benifast
by BlueBooHoo on Sep 24, 2006 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Question: Is he
Girardi
Something tells me Fergosi is going to wind up being the choice. I think Gonzalez is going to be snatched up very quickly by Florida.
by BlueBooHoo on Sep 24, 2006 5:29 PM CDT reply actions
Fregosi...
You credit Beinfest for a lot of the Marlins success, which is true, but Morrissey also had it right when he said they have good scouting.
The Cubs need some of that, almost more than they need a good manager.
Giants
DmL
Yep
My question is, if Brenly goes, can the Cubs get Dave O'Brien from ESPN this year or is he still under the type of contract where ESPN can refuse to allow the Cubs to talk to him.
by DSZ on Sep 24, 2006 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
2 things
by jolietconvict on Sep 24, 2006 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Right and wrong
As for the ESPN/Cubs think with O'Brien, your memory fails you. ESPN would not let him out of his contract. http://web.archive.org/web/20041129165355/http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_rozner.asp?intid=383 10260
by DSZ on Sep 24, 2006 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I would think...
This would be another gesture which would be extremely well-received by the vast majority of Cubs fans. The Cubs NEED good PR right now. This would be a good way of getting some.
Whether they replace Kasper or not if they did this is irrelevant. Stone's good enough that he could make Kasper sound better.
While I agree
by BlueBooHoo on Sep 25, 2006 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
O'Brien
As for Stone, I don't think its out of the question that he could return if Brenly leaves. I think all parties involved are mature enough to put the Dusty stuff aside and not even make it seem that he ever existed if all works out. I happen to like Len Kasper and I do think that he and Stone would make a nice team. Ultimately I could see a situation, when Ron Santo is no longer a Cubs broadcaster, where the Cubs could rotate the PBP announcer between TV and Radio, as they did when Harry Caray and Brennaman were there.
DmL
Yes...
DmL
Well,
I'll guarantee you that if you were to ask Jim Hendry if Brandon Wood and Ervin Santana have as much value as Aramis Ramirez he'd laugh. Sadly, the joke would be on him...again.
That's not the same thing.
No...
Nevertheless, I do think he does, which is why a lot of Cub "prospects" have faded away without producing either for the Cubs or for another team. Examples: Bobby Brownlie and David Kelton, who were at one time highly valued prospects who MIGHT have brought value in trade, but who wound up becoming useless.
I do agree in general that trading for prospects, if done properly, can improve your team. This year's Marlins are a perfect example of that.
I'm not sure that's...
Let's take Todd Wellemeyer as an example here. Todd had some pretty decent value back in 2003 and even in parts of 2004. However, he began losing value pretty much the instant he started pitching for the big league team. He was overmatched. Hendry failed to adjust the value he thought he deserved to get out of him and in the end, he got nothing of value.
What Hendry didn't understand, and still doesn't, is that by trading him in 2004 for less value than he could have gotten in 2003 is still MORE value than he ended up getting out of him.
Hendry has this idea that if a guy begins to lose value that he can fix it. A little time to make some adjustment and the value is right back up there and he'll pull the trigger. That's unlikely to happen because MOST players do not succeed.
This is the reason why I continue to say that Rich Hill will be traded this offseason. Hill is the first of numerous players Hendry has failed to get any value out of that has actually reached the point where his value was highest, and in Hill's case, perhaps even higher than it was back in 2005 before he made his MLB debut. Hendry will trade Rich Hill this offseason.
Unfortunately, Hill's improvements probably embolden Hendry's position with prospects and he'll continue to get no value out of almost all of them.
I suppose this is technically overvaluing of prospects, but I don't believe Hendry overvalues them from the start. It's the decline in value that Hendry just can't accept.
This is also the same reason why I said that trading Mark Prior before the 2006 season was the best move Hendry could do. Everybody said that Prior didn't have as much value as he once did and that you had to get it back up there. Well, it would have been better to trade him last offseason than now. It's now at the point where you can't trade the guy. Nobody in their right mind would trade for him. So you're stuck with him unless you want to release him.
It would have been better to get some value than no value. People all too often fail to realize when they argue about increasing a player's value that it's more likely that value will only be decreased. It's more likely that the Cubs, as I said, would have been trading Mark Prior last offseason when his value was as high as it was ever going to be from that point forward.
The Cubs had one thing going for them with regards to Prior and his value last offseason. He had never had a serious arm injury. Now he's had. Rotator cuff and his labrum. The guy now has slim to none odds of EVER even becoming the average pitcher he was in 2004 and 2005. Good thing we hung onto him.
Re: Trading Hill
Let's wait a year and see what our pitching prospects turn out to be before we see how the staff looks going into 2008.
Obviously if we have an overwhelming offer, it's another case. And no way do I trade him for someone 30+ no matter who it is. I'd like to see spend all of 2007 evaluating our youngsters
I agree tharr.
I don't, but...
Definitely!
I'd be in favor of a Pie and Hill deal to Florida for Cabrera. He's one of the best in the game and is only 23 years old. And he'll be relatively cheap the next 2 seasons. Pie and Hill for Tejada is just digging yourself another hole as far as i'm concerned.
Also, I expect Cabrera will play 3rd base for the Cubs because I just don't see the Cubs offering the kind of cash they'll need to in order to keep Ramirez.
I'd do that deal, too.
Jacque Jones will not platoon
Regardless of whether people think he should platoon, it would be a shocking move. Here's why:
Can anyone think of a similar player, someone making $5 million per year, who is playing at or above his career norms, who has been forced to platoon? It just doesn't happen.
by DSZ on Sep 25, 2006 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Try again
Nixon started to platoon with any regularity in 2003, the year after a 2002 season in which he had career lows (full seasons only) in batting average, OBP and OPS.
You are right that the Red Sox, who have a demonstrated willingness to spend 50% more than the Cubs on salaries, did platoon someone with a huge contract.
But Jones hasn't declined the way Nixon had. In fact, he's in the midst of his best season in 4 or 5 years. I can't imagine demoting him to a platoon player would go over well with him and perhaps some veteran teammates, no matter how statistically justifiable it may be.
by DSZ on Sep 25, 2006 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions
You do have a point...
Perhaps, but
The blame here, if there is blame, must go to Jim Hendry. He game him starter money. Jones had terrible splits last year and he's always been better against righties. I don't care about the salary as I have little doubt the Cubs could spend significantly more on salaries and still turn a profit, but it should have been made clear to Jones when he signed either that he was going to platoon from the start or that it was a possibility if he continued to struggle against lefties. A midseason switch this year would have shocked me. With the expected change in management, a new opportunity arises to approach Jones about platooning.
But, it is worth noting that Jones' overall numbers this year make him an above average offensive outfielder. Of the problems the Cubs have, Jacque Jones' numbers against lefties are nowhere close to the top.
by DSZ on Sep 25, 2006 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you suggesting
Frankly, I don't give a damn what Jones is making. He is not being asked to take a cut in salary. If he has a problem, tell him to work hard enough to improve his numbers against lefties. Other than that, it's his problem, not mine. The team is diminished with him playing against lefties.
i do not want to be a part of this travesty
by gaius marius on Sep 26, 2006 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
in today's news
One of three opera houses in the German capital, it cancelled director Hans Neuenfels's production of "Idomeneo", a 1781 drama set in ancient Crete, because authorities warned it could present an "incalculable security risk".
In the staging, which sparked audience protests during its premiere in December 2003, King Idomeneo presents the lopped-off heads of Poseidon, Jesus, Buddha and the Prophet Mohammed and displays them on four chairs.
German critics saw the show at the time as a radical attack on religion and religious wars.
Musical director Kirsten Harms decided to cancel the new staging of the opera, scheduled for November, to avert "any danger to the audience or staff" that could arise from violent protests.
The opera itself deals with resistance to sacrifices demanded by the gods but makes no mention of any of the world's major religions.
The cancellation comes two weeks after Pope Benedict XVI sparked Muslim anger on a visit to his native Germany when he quoted from a medieval text that criticized some teachings of the Prophet Mohammed as "evil and inhuman".
And the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten set off a firestorm in the Muslim world when it printed 12 caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed last September and other, mostly European, newspapers followed suit.
Islam considers images of the prophet to be blasphemous.
09/25/2006 18:37 GMT
by gaius marius on Sep 26, 2006 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Scouting question
by cubz1963 on Sep 24, 2006 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I see your point, but I suspect . . .
by hoosiercubbie on Sep 24, 2006 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs DO value scouting!
Statistical analysis would have saved us from the misery of Ronny Cedeno. Anybody who can look at the simplest of stat sheets knew this guy had no future at the MLB level. It was the most obvious thing I'd ever seen. But the Cubs didn't think so. They thought that hitting .355 over 60 games at AAA had more value than the previous 5 years. They're idiots!
Cedeno, in a quality organization would have been gone 3 years ago and the chance for him to ever make it never would have happened. This is what the Cubs need to do. The Cubs are managing their farm system using 1950s techniques. Any organization that does this is bound to fail. It's no wonder the Cubs suck. Really, it's not, guys. They do suck for a reason. Well, more than one, but this is a large one.
You know...
This is something that also has to be addressed. Maybe Tim Wilken, over time, can have some influence in this area.
Perhaps!
What needs to be done is exactly what the A's and Red Sox do. If your scouts turn in a list of 6 outfielders (in real life it would be larger than this, but this is just for the sake of simplicity) in the organization they think have a bright future, that's great. What you need to do is have a statistical analysis team on staff that also turns in 6 names. More than likely, as Bill James notes in one of his books, 3 of the names are likely to appear on both lists. THESE are the guys that you put most of your development time into.
Let one compliment the other. This minimizes the chances that some player like Ronny Cedeno makes it to the major leagues. It doesn't eliminate those chances. Stats and Scouting together are still fallible and in most cases of prospect, they're still going to fail--it's what prospects do. But you should be able to increase the odds of success for some while eliminating others.
Look at the Marlins championship teams
Kevin Brown
Livian Hernandez
Al Leiter
Charles Johnson
Bobby Bonilla
Edgar Rentaria
Moises Alou
Cliff Flloyd
Gary Sheffield
2003 Marlins
Josh Beckett
A.J. Burnett
Carl Pavano
Dontrelle Willis
Brad Penney
Ivan Rodriguez
Derek Lee
Luis Castillo
Mike Lowell
Miguel Cabrera
Juan Pierre
Dave Dombrowski was named GM in 1997 and Beinfest joined the team in 2002. And while they both are considered excellent at their skills, they have not been involved in the long term success of the team.
The Marlins team of 2006 is truly a low low budget squad and their success cannot be overstated. Much of that success is due to the excellent managerial skills of Girardi. Name another manager who would have achieved what Joe has done. Imagine that club's record with Dusty at the helm.
Not to take anything away from the Marlins
Bull
Florida is blessed with an exceptionally gifted front office. That is key to their success and their continued pattern of relative quick turnarounds after selling off player assets.
by BlueBooHoo on Sep 25, 2006 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions

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