Soriano in CF?

by neonverse1 on Jan 20, 2007 12:56 PM CST

http://www.cubs.com

Piniella admits in this article that he has considered putting Alfonso Soriano in CF and keeping Jacque Jones in right.

This is what the Cubs, in my humble opinion, should do. RF at Wrigley is a tougher spot to play, and that fact that Soriano is not a "natural" outfielder should help ease him into his new home with the Cubs.

Besides, Jones has one-year's worth of expeience in RF as it stands. To put Jones in CF would complicate matters.

I was almost sold on Theriot as a stopgap in CF but still believe that he should come off the bench (as often as possible, mind you).

Jacque Jones, then, might still be traded at any time before or during this season. Pie must be "ready," though, before this move is made.

I believe that, rather than moving Soriano back into RF when Pie joins the team, the Cubs should insert Pie in RF because of his defense. Of course, this would be worked out at a later date.

As for Floyd, I just feel that he is too "old" and "injury-prone." These are two traits that our "win-now" Cubbies don't need.

Let us know what you think, BCB!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Possible Cubs line-up:

Soriano, CF
Izturis, (S) SS
Lee, 1B
Ramirez, 3B
Jones, (L), RF
Barrett, C
Murton, LF
DeRosa, 2B

After Pie is added and Jones is dealt:

Soriano, CF
Izturis, (S), SS
Lee, 1B
Ramirez, 3B
Barrett, C
Murton, LF
DeRosa, 2B
Pie (L), RF

Note: Murton could be in the two-hole someday.

All we are saying... is give Pie a chance

by neonverse1 on Jan 20, 2007 1:01 PM CST reply actions

I doubt Piniella......

will bat Izturis in the 2 hole.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jan 20, 2007 1:05 PM CST up reply actions

But Izturis can bunt!

Seriously, though, where should Izzy bat, then? Should DeRosa or Murton bat in the two-hole? It's all speculation, of course. But it's fun.

All we are saying... is give Pie a chance

by neonverse1 on Jan 20, 2007 2:19 PM CST up reply actions

I think Soriano drops to #3

I keep looking at this and Piniella is no dummy. They might be talking about Soriano as the lead off hitter but that is not what is best for the team.

Going out from the 3-hole....if you bat Soriano #3 than you can frame Soriano with Murton as the #2 and D-Lee as cleanup...protected by A-Ramirez in the 5-spot....and Jones in the 6th spot followed by Barrett/Blano.

That again leaves lead off and #8. I say bat DeRosa except when Theriot plays at that spot and either Izturis or DeRosa (when he plays SS) in the 8th hole.

My reasoning is simple. Murton has the best bat control and will go deeper in the counts in the #2 hole allowing Soriano-Lee-Ramirez to get looks at a pitcher. When DeRosa gets on, Murton also could hit & run or take pitches for Theriot when he leads off.

Izturis is a glove man.

When/if the Cubs trade Jones and Cubs bring up Pie you can move DeRosa full time to SS and Theriot to 2B (as lead off) if Pie and Theriot have earned starting spots.

Best Harry moment: 'Hey there's Marla without her shorts on!'

by Ivy Walls on Jan 20, 2007 2:46 PM CST up reply actions

Why Not Soriano Fourth or Lower?

I think you're right, but what about letting Soriano bat clean-up or even fifth or sixth?

This is all tempered by the fact that Piniella has stated that Soriano will bat first.

He has tons of speed, yes, but his power is so great that he needs to bat a little lower.

I think that Lee is a locked in at the third hole, though.

What do you think, Ivy?

All we are saying... is give Pie a chance

by neonverse1 on Jan 20, 2007 2:52 PM CST up reply actions

Soriano is absolutely best for the team...

...as a leadoff hitter.

He puts up his best numbers from that spot in the lineup. Everywhere he has hit during his career he has been less of a hitter.

Keep him where he's comfortable and plays the best.

Derrek Lee is more than adequate as a #3 hitter.

Keep Soriano where he is.

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Jan 20, 2007 2:56 PM CST up reply actions

Exactly what purpose

Does putting a possible 40 stolen bags guy 5th or lower?

No, Soriano has to be either 1st or 3rd in the lineup. That's not even debatable.

AC046299

by escapegoat on Jan 20, 2007 3:03 PM CST up reply actions

Soriano

He puts up his best numbers from that spot in the lineup. Everywhere he has hit during his career he has been less of a hitter.

I don't believe that its this simple. If you look at his stats overall, this is true. When you put those stats into context, the numbers show that there is more to it than this.

To make a long story short, if you look at Soriano's numbers, one season at a time, and look at how he did in the various slots in the order, he often performed better in other spots in the line-up. However Soriano has now spent more time in the leadoff spot, during his most productive year, and therefor his leadoff numbers are better. So the question is are his leadoff numbers better because he's spent more time at leadoff as he has peaked or is he a better player now becuase he's batting leadoff?

Again, if you look at his stats one year at a time, and then look at his stats by spot in the order, you'll see that there is more to the story.

DmL

by dmlichte on Jan 20, 2007 3:08 PM CST up reply actions

Thank you

Sometimes it is not as easy as just looking at splits and saying "Oh, he's better in X situation". There's more to it. I'm not convinced Soriano should be used in the leadoff spot.

PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Jan 20, 2007 3:10 PM CST up reply actions

Going back the last five years...

When Soriano has bat leadoff over a full season he has posted better numbers than when he's hit mostly full seasons in other spots.

Batting 1st

.294/.368/.588 over 610 PA in 2006.
.293/.342/.533 over 675 PA in 2003.
.296/.329/.542 over 724 PA in 2002.

Batting 3rd

.280/.328/.476 over 528 PA in 2004.

Batting 5th

.270/.315/.523 over 534 PA in 2005.

When Soriano plays a full season batting leadoff he, so far anyway, has put up better numbers than anywhere else he's hit in the lineup over a full season.

As the contract progresses and Soriano ages, he might very well have to move down in the order, but for now, since that's where he clearly hits better, it behooves the Cubs to put him where he says he wants to hit, and where he is a good bet to be at his best.

Batting leadoff is simply where he does his best work.

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Jan 20, 2007 3:21 PM CST up reply actions

Stats

I'm really not sure what you're saying about Soriano. But here is the point I'm trying to make. Look at Soriano's situational stats year by year and here is what I'm trying to say

2006
Batting leadoff:
.294/.368/.588 (541 ABs)
Batting 5th
.310/.375/.690 (29 ABs)

2005
Batting leadoff:
.276/.301/.480 (98 ABs)
Batting 5th
.270/.315/.523 (497 ABs)

2004
Batting leadoff:
.269/.310/.597 (67 ABs)
Batting 3rd:
.280 .328.476 (485 ABs)

better OBP batting 7th or 8th, but sample size is suspect
Better batting 7th and 9th, but sample size is suspect

2001
Batting Leadoff
.250/.294/.281     (32 ABs)
Batting 7th
.262/.297/.475     (61 ABs)
Batting 8th
.308/.333/.442     (208 ABs)
Batting 9th
.251/.299/.453     (243 ABs)

Looking at the context here and looking at the individual years and situations, I think you can pretty easily question the validity of the "Soriano does best leading off" charge.

DmL

by dmlichte on Jan 20, 2007 6:21 PM CST up reply actions

I'm too tired to try to explain what should be...

...obvious.

When Soriano gets the bulk of a season's ABs from the leadoff spot, he posts much better numbers than in other seasons where he gets the bulk of his ABs at another slot in the lineup.

He's simply better batting first over a full season.

Oh look, I explained it again.

Sleepy time.

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Jan 21, 2007 3:21 AM CST up reply actions

You are making an assumption...

... that Soriano's numbers are that way because he's batting leadoff. Again, I found it interesting that even in his best overall season last year, his numbers were better in the #5 spot, not the leadoff spot. So you believe that he did so well in the #5 spot because of all the leadoff opportunities that he had? This is indeed possible. Its also possible that his numbers took a downward turn for a few years because of his move to Texas. Again, however, I think that there is a lot more to the story than "Soriano does better in the leadoff spot".

And I did not nor do I dismiss sample size. You'll note in my post w/ the stats that I mention sample size when it is extremely suspect. However you cannot simply avoid an issue because of sample size. You want to dismiss the numbers, thats fine, but they still are the numbers and over an entire career, they should add some significance to the overall picture.

DmL

by dmlichte on Jan 21, 2007 10:41 AM CST up reply actions

and you seem to think small sample size means...

...just as much as a full season's worth of ABs.

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Jan 21, 2007 3:22 AM CST up reply actions

Line-up

You cant just stick Pie in the 8 hole like that.

He's a young guy who is supposed to be a pretty free swinger. It would be a bad idea for his first at bats in the majors to be just before the pitcher. They wouldnt give him anything to hit and he'd likely chase a bad pitch and get himself out.

You'd have to hit him 7th and put someone like Barrett, a vet who knows how to hit in front of thr pitcher, in the 8 spot. That would protect Pie and still allow for some production at the bottom of the lineup.

Cant be Pie, Izturis, (pitcher), either, then you could be looking at 3 straight outs.

Glenallen Hill hit that ball 600 feet.

by BigDumbFace on Jan 20, 2007 1:11 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed

Pie needs to bat low, but eighth is a bit too far down, especially in front of the pitcher. Perhaps Murton, a "contact guy," could hit before the pitcher's spot? (Izzy hitting eighth would, you're right, make no sense at all).

Barrett needs to stay around the sixth or seventh spot, though. When Blanco starts, of course, he would have to hit eighth, right?

I don't know. Thankfully, the Cubs don't pay me to make any of these decisions!

All we are saying... is give Pie a chance

by neonverse1 on Jan 20, 2007 2:23 PM CST up reply actions

There is no question...

... in my mind that Izturis must bat eighth -- he's really not suited for any other lineup slot.

The rest of the lineup could be slotted based on various other obvious assumptions (Soriano leading off because he's been more productive there; Lee 3rd, Ramirez 4th, etc).

The only real question to me, is whether you hit Murton 2nd and DeRosa 7th, or vice versa. My suspicion is that Piniella will choose the "vice versa". Me, I think I'd experiment, at least, with Murton in the 2 slot.

by Al Yellon on Jan 21, 2007 4:17 AM CST up reply actions

I was

to make a diary about this but it fits here. I just got back from the convention and during the Piniella 101 the Triple-A manager(forgot his name) said that Pie was "immature" and "would get eaten alive" if he were to come up now.

Also that his defense was great and he is ready right now as far as that goes.

I was all for bringing him up but obviously he needs more time. No need to rush.

Someone mentioned to Piniella that Soriano said he would play center which he seemed genuinely surprised to hear. If he does, this gives Murton his at-bats, puts a good athlete in center and we can keep Jones in right or trade for someone. I think this is the way it has to be right now.

WARD!

by cubbieboy on Jan 20, 2007 1:16 PM CST reply actions

We already discussed all possible CF scenarios...

HERE

EINSTEIN!

by tyger1147 on Jan 20, 2007 1:26 PM CST reply actions

I forgot about that

lol

PTBNL!

by gravedigger on Jan 20, 2007 1:36 PM CST up reply actions

Yes,

that was quite the OBD...

MCDONOUGH!

by secdelahc on Jan 20, 2007 1:59 PM CST up reply actions

I think Lou will stick with his word...

I don't have a link, but I know for a fact that both Hendry and Piniella promised Soriano he would bat leadoff. I believe he will start the season batting leadoff. In fact, I'd bet anyone here $100,000 that he will.

From that point, it's probably a matter of time before it's "obvious" he should be moved down. And I don't think that will happen in the next three years. Maybe after Hendry and Piniella are both gone...

But Soriano will be the leadoff batter. It was promised by Hendry and Piniella, neither of whom I find to be word-breaking men.

EINSTEIN!

by tyger1147 on Jan 20, 2007 5:13 PM CST reply actions

So you're basing that bet

on a "promise" the Cubs made to Soriano? Weak. Whether or not I think Soriano should lead off is irrelavent to one of my pet peeves in sports: Doing something because they "promised". The goal is not to hurt someone's feelings, it's to win baseball games. If it turns out that Soriano helps the Cubs hitting elsewhere besides lead-off, then that's where he needs to hit.

If he doesn't like it and runs his mouth, we'll run his ass out of town too.

AC046299

by escapegoat on Jan 20, 2007 5:52 PM CST up reply actions

So you want to bet, then?

I do like your logic... it is dumb to do something on a promise and not what helps the team... but you're not a GM, are you? You're not Jim Hendry. You're not Lou Piniella. These guys value their word and won't do anything close to what you suggest (dropping him in the order and if he complains, running his ass out of town...).

You're confident in this? Bring a bet on. I dare ya. You're being so naive it's retarded.

EINSTEIN!

by tyger1147 on Jan 20, 2007 6:21 PM CST up reply actions