Cubs Avoid Arbitration With Mark Prior

by brianp88 on Jan 31, 2007 2:30 PM CST Comment 47 comments

and sign him to a one year deal. I assume they met in the middle of arbitration figures. Here is the link to the story in the Trib http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070131cubsprior,1,2072156.story?track=rss

I gotta type some more stuff so I have enough charecters in this diary. Testing, 1-2-3. This is only a test.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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That just leaves......

Zambrano.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jan 31, 2007 2:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

sign

BIG Z NOW>.

by Kchance on Jan 31, 2007 2:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think it will go to arbitration

w Zambrano.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jan 31, 2007 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't.

n/t

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Jan 31, 2007 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I am with you on that prediction

I think they will come close to $13-14M and agree to talk before ST and in training on a extension little different that A-Ramirez's extension, 3years with an option after the second year for Zambrano to exercise which will force the Cubs to renegotiate the 4th year will be a club option.

Zambrano will get something like $16M for '08 $17M '09 option of $18M in 2010 and club option of $20M in '11.

Best Harry moment: 'Hey there's Marla without her shorts on!'

by Ivy Walls on Jan 31, 2007 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed, or...

... it might go a year further out, and the last club option year will have a buyout figure, too.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Jan 31, 2007 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe on second thought $15M in '06

as a good will gesture to continue negotiations in ST, the fifth year is debatable, he is a pitcher, although proven durability, that is a risk, the 4 years gives him the opportunity to still be a FA in his 20's and possibly really cash in.

Now Prior's was interesting, the Cubs gave notice of a $100K pay cut, but then offered him relief to earn his demands to $3.85M EXACTLY...if he starts 30 games.

by the numbers: 162 divided by 5 is 32.4....Miss two starts in April because of funky schedule...that means 30 starts...

Rotation on paper going into April:
Zambrano, Lilly, Marquis, Hill, Prior....

IF IF IF Prior is healthy....

Zambrano 19-10?
Prior 15-11?
Hill 16-9?
Lilly 15-12
equals 49...
Marquis/Miller/Marshall/Guzman (the wild cards)

Best Harry moment: 'Hey there's Marla without her shorts on!'

by Ivy Walls on Jan 31, 2007 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Prior's healthy when the team breaks camp......

I think he'd be the 2nd or 3rd starter, I can't see a situation where Marquis would be slotted ahead of him if he's healthy.

If he's healthy....

Zambrano- 17-11
Prior- 12-5 if he's really healthy......16-7
Hill- 10-9
Lilly- 15-8
Marquis- 9-12

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jan 31, 2007 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Prior were completely healthy...

he's a #1...plain and simple.....even more so than Zambrano.....

Check out my daily baseball blog at MLB-threeSIXTYfive

by TheBeerBaron on Jan 31, 2007 6:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yea

when prior is one his control is way better than z's

by tbizzle83 on Feb 1, 2007 3:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Am I an idiot...

to think that will happen? Understatement of the year: "that would be really good for the Cubs".

by eamuscatuli1881 on Feb 1, 2007 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Alrighty then...

I just hope he earns whatever dollar figure he and his agent negotiated. I'm glad we're not counting on Prior for anything more than a decent fifth starter, but the mere notion that he could pitch up to his '03 form this year is driving me nuts -- it would mean so much to this team.

I didn't have the ball, bitch!

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 31, 2007 3:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It would mean alot.......

but he was abused pretty badly by Dusty (according to Will Carroll and alot of others). It takes time to come back from that by itself add to that the Giles incident and the line drive and its quite a feat that he can even pitch at all. I hope he's healthy but it would take a fair bit of luck from him to be back to 2003 form, at least this season.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jan 31, 2007 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think

we tend to forget a lot of that when discussing (or is it dissin'?) Prior. Dusty rode him and Woody hard in 2003 - and it almost paid off.

Plus that Giles collision and line drive could not have been helpful to his progress and recovery as well. Let's just hope that there is something left in him of use, maybe even this year. I for one, and pulling for him to bounce back at some point. Something tells, me that without Dusty around he just might - I think that combo was bad. Is there any evidence though?

D-LEE!

by airweino on Jan 31, 2007 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Both these guys were used a lot...

long before Dusty got a hold of them

Kerry's coach in high school had him throw 175 pitches in a doubleheader when the teams playoff hopes were on the line two days before the Cubs drafted him.

Prior pitched 138 innings in his Junior year and 129 innings in his Soph. year. He followed his Soph. year with summer league ball and his Junior year playing for team USA. Remember that the college baseball season runs from February to May (4 months), end of June if you make it all the way to Omaha. By contrast in 2003, Prior threw 211 innings for the Cubs over a six month season or roughly an extra inning a month that Dusty used him versus his previous pitching load. The Cubs were conservative with his innings during his time in the minors and majors in 2002.

by FullyKraeusened on Jan 31, 2007 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Evidence of what......

him not liking Dusty or Dusty "use" causing him to break down? I've heard rumors that he didn't like Dusty. As for pitcher abuse, yea I think there's some evidence that supports it....most teams won't even think of pitching young starters to the degree that Dusty did.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jan 31, 2007 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't hear

a lot of complaining when the Cubs finished first in 2003 thanks to Prior's great pitching. Baker did the right thing, keeping him in games. The idea is to win.

"Eighty-five percent of the $#@&$ world's working! The other 15 come out here! A %&$&# playground for the $&&*@!"

by danimal15 on Jan 31, 2007 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course the idea is to win......

but that's not the point. You can win and not abuse your starters.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jan 31, 2007 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OK

Everyone's against abusing pitchers, whatever the definition of abuse might be. But say it's a 1-1 game, and you're heading into the 7th. Prior has thrown 100 pitches, and some would say it's time to take him out. But if you have lousy middle relief (and that was the case with the Cubs that year), then taking out your best starter and replacing him with a mediocre middle reliever is not going to win you the ballgame. I'm sure that was Baker's philosophy that year to keep Prior pitching as long as possible in close games, and it worked. No way Prior wins 18 games if he's taken out every time he reaches the 100-pitch mark. And probably the Cubs don't win the division. I don't believe Prior was abused that year. He wasn't throwing 150 pitches a game, and seldom threw as many as 120. He had 3 or 4 CGs the entire year. He threw just over 200 innings. If that's abuse, then every manager in baseball history before the year 2000 was guilty of abusing just about every starter he ever managed.

"Eighty-five percent of the $#@&$ world's working! The other 15 come out here! A %&$&# playground for the $&&*@!"

by danimal15 on Jan 31, 2007 9:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure......

that's a scenario where you want your best pitcher to be in the game but about the instances in which the team was up big and he was still left in games til the end? Dusty Baker has a reputation as pitcher abuser there's some validity to that accusation. His pitchers are always at the top of the list when it comes to pitcher abuse points. Prior obviously at the time was more than capable of pitching 200 innings but does that still make it wise to let young pitchers do so? Considering that we didn't win a damn thing was it really worth the risk? Some people will never be convinced that pitcher abuse matters or if it even exists, I am. There's quite a few teams right now that are grooming their young pitching so as not to abuse them at such an early age.....SEA with Felix Hernandez, TB with Scott Kazmir, LAA with Jared Weaver.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jan 31, 2007 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just some info...

all three of those guys have had some injury problems recently.

I'm not saying anything, I'm just pointing something out these three have in common. I don't really think this means much, but they could also be taken care of by their teams because they have had some problems even though they are not injury prone(maybe Kazmir)in my eyes at least. If this were partly true, then maybe the Cubs should've taken care of Prior and wood, since they were not exactly injury free people. But they were healthy then, so I guess I see why a team wouldn't be as careful.

I know pitchers can't be like Maddux, but the pitcher's could help themselves out by being more efficient.

Anyway, let's hope they can both recover and that El Tortuga's arm doesn't fall off(or Bob Howry's).

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Jan 31, 2007 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

At some point

When I have more time, I'd be curious to go start-by-start through Prior's 2003 season and see how many times he was left in games that were pretty much won already. I'm sure there were a few instances, but not many, as he only had 3 CGs all year. I'd also like to closely examine how many pitches he threw per start. I know he was among the league leaders. But I don't think there was any one game where he threw an insane number.

Of course, I'm of the opinion that each pitcher is different, and that some can handle throwing far more pitches than others without suffering injury (Roger Clemens has had numerous 150-pitch outings). Others can be closely monitored (like the ones Sparkles mentioned) and still get hurt.

"Eighty-five percent of the $#@&$ world's working! The other 15 come out here! A %&$&# playground for the $&&*@!"

by danimal15 on Jan 31, 2007 11:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I checked out......

his game log and there weren't too many games that he was left in for too long. I wasn't able to find out how many pitches per start he had though. Someone had it posted on a site a few weeks back and it was something like 120-138 pitches per start.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jan 31, 2007 11:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Baseball-reference.com...

... now has player gamelogs with pitch counts, at least for games after 1988.

Here's Prior's from 2003. He threw more than 120 pitches nine times in 30 starts. The alarming thing is that five of those were in September, including the only three over 130 pitches.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 1, 2007 8:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know Kazmir.....

has missed some time but last season he came back and pitched 200+ innings. And that was the first time he's pitched over 200 innings. There's just no definitive method for proving or denying just how much of a factor pitcher abuse plays in causing a pitcher to be injured because like most theories in baseball its very subjective. Believers in pitcher abuse from what I've read recommend that ideally a young pitcher should be brought along slowly with the IP increasing by 15-20 IP each year until the player is up to 200 innings which I read on BP and is the method that SEA is using with King Felix. They feel that too much of a increase in IP increases the chance for injury. Going from 116 IP to 211 is a huge jump in IP for a young pitcher. That's the huge red flag that screams pitcher abuse.

As for Maddux.....what can be said....he's probably the most intelligent pitcher of all time. Its really unfair to compare anyone with him.

I only thing I can point to being a positive is that Prior hasn't long too many innings in the last 3 years, he's saved alot of mileage on that arm.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jan 31, 2007 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Saved mileage?

That's just a flawed argument. He turned 26 last year. Those three years he missed were key years in a young pitcher's development, and he'll never have the chance to get them back. Also, he's hardly used his arm in three years, meaning he's grown unaccustomed to the kind of work load he'll need to be able to handle to be a successful starter who can start 30 games and pitch 200 innings a year. I imagine Prior, if he is healthy, will have to begin essentially from zero this year, and have to re-learn a lot of what he has forgotten about pitching against MLB hitters. Now it's true that Warren Spahn never won a game till he was 25, and went on to win 363 games. So there's still hope, with Prior aged 26. But to talk about mileage on his arm being saved by not pitching, when he could have been at the peak of his career is a head scratcher.

"Eighty-five percent of the $#@&$ world's working! The other 15 come out here! A %&$&# playground for the $&&*@!"

by danimal15 on Feb 1, 2007 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

re: It would mean alot.......

I think PriorandAramisfan23 brings up a good point here. Maybe many, if not most, Cubs fans (myself included) are being too "all or nothing" when it comes to Prior.

We want him to come back in '03 form yet, having been out of the game (more or less) for so long, that's probably not going to happen. I think we should all be happy if Prior can come back, make most of his starts and pitch consistently, if not spectacularly.

I'd cite the way Wade Miller pitched at the end of last season. He was far from lights out, but he threw strikes and gave us some good innings.

When all is said and done, if Prior can put together a 10+ win season -- and make it through the season -- I'd consider it a success. Then we can look for him to build on that success in '08 if he is indeed re-signed.

I didn't have the ball, bitch!

by dat cubfan daver on Feb 1, 2007 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be happy

with 10 wins from Prior this year, definitely. It's not much to ask, considering he's going to make $3.6 million!

"Eighty-five percent of the $#@&$ world's working! The other 15 come out here! A %&$&# playground for the $&&*@!"

by danimal15 on Feb 1, 2007 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One more response to "mileage" comment

Hey - if Prior never throws another pitch, imagine the mileage that will save on his arm! Let's sit him out a few more years. Then his arm will be in perfect shape!

"Eighty-five percent of the $#@&$ world's working! The other 15 come out here! A %&$&# playground for the $&&*@!"

by danimal15 on Feb 1, 2007 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Paycut Prior

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2749694

He'll make $3.575M, down from $3.65M last year. He can make $150,000 for each start between 27-30.

DmL

by dmlichte on Jan 31, 2007 4:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

actually it is a push with the incentives,

The deal fore tells of the Cubs and Prior's expectations, he earns an additional $150,00 for 27 starts (roughly full time starter status for the 5th starter) and another $150,000 for his 30th start.

That pushes the figure to $3.875M which is what he asked for in his arbitration request.

Cubs said sure Mark, earn it and you got it.

Best Harry moment: 'Hey there's Marla without her shorts on!'

by Ivy Walls on Jan 31, 2007 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yup...

... I'm fairly sure that anyone can add and realize that if Prior hits the incentives that I mentioned in the post that it is a push. However, no matter how you slice it, Prior is getting a paycut on his base salary.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 1, 2007 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

prior?????????

would be nice if prior could come back this year.when you have a pitcher of his talent win 1 game for the season,that tells you where the team went.down the tubes.i really hope the cubs get it done with big z.i echo z,s sentiments exactly.i hope they have some money left over for big z.

by NOMAR on Jan 31, 2007 5:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Prior (and Wood, of course)

I think I speak for all Cubs fans here when I say that the main reason I am rooting for Mark Prior and Kerry Wood to come back healthy in 2007, besides the obvious fact that it will help the Cubs, is that I'm sick and tired of talking about them being injured. If we, as fans, have to go into next winter singing the same old "Woe is me" tune (although I'm confident that will not be the case), I hope we can at least be down and depressed about something different. I like them both, and I want them to do well, but from a selfish standpoint, I'm just sick of reading and talking about them being injured. You can only sing the same old depressing tune for so long, and you eventually need something different.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Jan 31, 2007 5:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Pay cut

Even if there are incentives, it's nice to see Prior get a pay cut, however slight. The guy has been so overpaid the last three years. He should pay the Cubs back some of the money. I'm sick of paying $30 a ticket in part so that the Cubs can pay Wood and Prior a combined $15 mln or whatever it is while they combine for 2 wins a year.

"Eighty-five percent of the $#@&$ world's working! The other 15 come out here! A %&$&# playground for the $&&*@!"

by danimal15 on Jan 31, 2007 8:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Prior......

hasn't been making enough money to cause any kind of effect on ticket prices. I understand the sentiment but in reality he hasn't been making that much money.....now Wood on the other hand.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jan 31, 2007 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

pay

You're probably right - Prior's salary wasn't high enough. But Wood's certainly was. I'm glad he's taking a big cut. Combined, Prior and Wood are guaranteed around $5 mln this year, down from around $15 mln last year. And we're not paying Sosa anymore. So there are some things to be happy about on the payroll front.

"Eighty-five percent of the $#@&$ world's working! The other 15 come out here! A %&$&# playground for the $&&*@!"

by danimal15 on Jan 31, 2007 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And Kerry was the first to admit that he

didn't feel he earned his salary. Most of us on BCB thought that Kerry would re-sign for at minimum his buyout amount.......signing him for $1.75M is a steal.

Check out my daily baseball blog at MLB-threeSIXTYfive

by TheBeerBaron on Jan 31, 2007 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Prior

Prior's contract includes 10 tubes of Vagisil and the Cubs footing the bill for his gynecologists visits.

by Barry on Feb 1, 2007 6:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're new here.

We've done this to death.

"[BCB] is much better than... well, everything." -- gravedigger, January 21, 2007

by Al on Feb 1, 2007 8:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'd avoid the 'prior the female' motif

It'll make a social pariah out of you here.

TRAMMELL!

by Faith plus 1 on Feb 1, 2007 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes,

BCB will rise as one and slay you (figuratively) for making sexist remarks concerning Prior's gender, sexual orientation, or dislike for CareBears.

UZI

We should be celebrating Oscar's "mexicanicity".

by Ozgreeder on Feb 1, 2007 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All right, I'm trying to figure this out...

...just who the hell is uzi?

PINIELLA!

by theprognosticator on Feb 2, 2007 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who's

UZI?

UZI

We should be celebrating Oscar's "mexicanicity".

by Ozgreeder on Feb 2, 2007 9:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Uzi...

is short for Uzziah Avner Aviel-Ari....my Israeli name. From this comes UZI, which for some reason became ozgreeder. I don't how to explain that one except that it's f*cked up. Sorry. Does that help?

UZI

We should be celebrating Oscar's "mexicanicity".

by Ozgreeder on Feb 2, 2007 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs