2008 & 09 Prospects?

by CubFaninCA on Oct 11, 2007 12:27 PM CDT Comment 65 comments

What prospects do you expect to make the team in 2008 & 2009, and who will be the biggest contributors???

Soto ~ It appears he has the catching job for 08.

Pie ~ Lots of expectations, but I won't be shocked if they go out and sign Aaron Rowand and try to trade Pie for pitching.

Tyler Colvin ~ Seems they're very high on him. Could he be starting in 2009??

Gallagher and Hart ~ They seem like the two most likely to fight it out with Marshall for the #5 spot.

Eric Patterson ~ Doesn't seem like the Cubs are high on him.

Cedeno ~ I have a feeling that he'll edge out Fontenot in spring training.. Theriot probably starts over him.

Any other notable prospects??

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs | Comment 65 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

You could be right, but much depends

on the budget given Hendry this offseason and what he does in free agency. Heck, if there is no additional money alocated, all these guys would play big roles as they are the cost effective options, production be damned.

by N Oakley on Oct 11, 2007 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Eric Patterson...

... should be trade bait. He has talent, but apparently has an attitude problem. Best to let someone else deal with it, I think.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 11, 2007 1:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Eric Patterson...

Have you heard stories beyond the episodes of tardiness that caused the Cubs to send him back to AA?

by John Q Freejazz on Oct 11, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd also like to hear more evidence...

because i've read and heard that he's a very personable likeable guy.

by SouthernCub on Oct 12, 2007 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Forget the attitude problem...

he's blocked at the major league level, with better defensive alternatives for the bench. Deal him while his value is high.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 11, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Al:

I think your constant accusations of "clubhouse cancer" and "headcase" are often applied unfairly, and I think it hurts your credibility. Over the past year, I think I've seen you declare at least two dozen players some variation of "headcase" etc. based on media reports (sometimes with sound evidence, but these reports are occasionally of dubious origin).

Even still, you use these reports in lieu of actually providing any meaningful baseball insight into the discussion. Dismissing a player due to a possible weakness of character without paying any mind to actual skill neglects our purpose for discussing anything at all.

As it happens, I agree that Patterson should be trade bait (or rather should have been traded about 11 months ago when his value was highest. I advocated trading him then (I've really never been an Eric Patterson fan. His tools aside (in this case, "tools" might mean little more than 'speed'), he's probably too weak defensively to ever stick at second base, and hence his value diminishes significantly if we have to move him to CF (both because offense is more premium at second base, and because we already have 2 better CF prospects in our system in Pie and Colvin...although Colvin may move to right, but I've digressed from the point).

And now we can include several other factors that hurt Patterson's prospect status: he doesn't have his brother's power, he's been slightly old for most of his minor league stops, and has never exactly 'torn it up'. He's been solid, and has a decent shot of one day being a relatively high average CF (more of a longshot for 2b) who strikes out frequently, and bats around .270-.290 with an unimpressive, but not terrible, OBP. This is his upside, but I think his likely outcome is bench player.

Finally, Patterson is allegedly a head case, so I guess we should probably take that into account too.

by Thelonious on Oct 11, 2007 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Colvin

If he can just learn to walk a little and hit some more homers he would be great addition in 09.

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Oct 11, 2007 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i think

his power is developing pretty nicely. 16 jacks in not even 500 at bats in the minors i thought was a pretty solid total for a 21-year-old.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Oct 11, 2007 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Addendum

Since Hendry may be limited in the free agent market, due to the budget being quite high and a subpar free agent market, I think he looks to deal some prospects.

I'd love to see Hendry go after Jake Peavy, who I think is more likely to be available than Santana. SD's not spending money, and Tower's a major wheeler/dealer, who has dealt with Hendry in the past.

Peavy's at his peak trade value, as he's under team control for two more years, and SD could use a 2b, CF, and a couple cheap starters. Patterson, Pie, Hill and Marshall could fill some needs.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 11, 2007 1:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

peavy's mechanics frighten me

He actually defines throwing across one's body. I'm not saying I wouldn't take him if he was available (I probably would). I'm merely pointing out that going after peavy is somewhat risky, IMO, even citing his unquestioned talent at sports.

by Thelonious on Oct 11, 2007 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Large trade

This isnt fantasy baseball. San Diego would not trade Peavy.

Hey.....Cubs win!!!

by Hammer on Oct 11, 2007 2:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

SD's budget is $55 million and

Peavy will be looking for Zambrano money in a few years, which is about a third of their budget.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 11, 2007 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

San Diego's team

is built on pitching, if Peavy is not going to be a FA for 2-3 years, why in the world would San Diego trade their best pitcher now?

If he was a FA after 08, it might make more sense, but not now.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 11, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he is

a FA after 08

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 11, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

then that makes a little more sense. I thought someone had mentioned the Pads had him under control for 2 more years.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 11, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They do.

SD has a team option for 2009.

Now's the time to trade him. Teams are going to be more reluctant to trade for him with only 1 year left, as he could go elsewhere. Also, he's coming off a great, injury-free season.

I just can't see SD paying Peavy $20 million a year considering their current budget.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 11, 2007 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Peavy contract link.

http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=1024

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 11, 2007 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is accurate

i was wrong...

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 11, 2007 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

they could trade him now, but I think it would take a boatload of talent to get the guy.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 11, 2007 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No doubt and

he's one of the few guys worth a boatload.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 11, 2007 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How much

will they have to offer Peavy when Hoffman is off the books? Though you're right, with one trade of Peavy they could restock their team for years to come

by TC Cubby on Oct 11, 2007 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the Padres

cannot sign Peavy to a long-term extension, they will trade him. They do not want to lose him to free agency.

Having said that, they'd want a mint for him. Pie, Marmol and Hill might do it, but then we'd have to break open the bank for Peavy to sign him--and he'll want more than Zambrano.

I think we'd be better off not making that trade.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 11, 2007 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

and those comments in August were disturbing, to say the least. I suspect that Alderson would do that deal, and laugh all the way to the bank. But for the Cubs, it could make sense. Make a great run next year, and by seasons end, new ownership is in place. Leave it to them to decide whether to make that financial committment long-term.

By the way, is Cameron out the door, or what?

by Damen Jackson on Oct 11, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Response

Soto should be the starting catcher next season. Josh Donaldson looked great in Boise, but he's at least two and probably three years away. Hopefully he'll keep it up. I kind of like Wellington Castillo in the minors as well.

Pie should be given the opportunity to take the CF job in spring training. I still believe he's a potential all-star out there. We do need a backup plan in case Pie flames out though, and that's why we really shouldn't trade Jones.

Tyler Colvin is one weird prospect. With one exception, he does everything well and nothing great. He has good speed, but not great. He hits for a good average, but not likely to win a batting title. He's got doubles power right now. Sometimes that translates into home run power as players get stronger and older, but Colvin's level swing may prevent that from happening. His defense is good, but possibly not good enough to stay in center field.

The one thing he isn't good at is controlling the strike zone. He's terrible there. He rarely walks and strikes out at a Soriano-esque rate. I keep coming back to Jeff Francoeur on Colvin. I pretty much think that's his upside.

You're forgetting the pitchers, actually. Billy Petrick is someone we got a brief look at and whom I betting goes north with the team in April. Rocky Roquet has future closer-stuff (although so does Marmol, of course) and we've discussed Jose Ceda around here. Kevin Hart seems to be a Lou Piniella favorite--I wouldn't be shocked if he ended up in the starting rotation next season. And Jeff Samardzija is probably a 2009 arrival. I'm bucking the sabermetric crowd on this one and saying that the Shark is going to be a good one.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 11, 2007 2:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Colvin

reminds of Francouer....

by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 11, 2007 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Colvin has several comps

All are guys who had several years of around .800 OPS, with more power than OBA. They were also hitting around those numbers in AA at age 21. I don't remember most of them, but think of Larry Hisle types. The point is that Colvin's minor league numbers probably project him to be a cheap, league-average RF from about 2009 to 2012. Slightly below average on offense, slightly above on defense. Or vice versa if he's put in CF.

Pie has substantially more upside than that. He deserves to win the CF job full-time (or at least against RH pitching) in Spring Training.

Geo! (clap-clap-clap) Soto! (clap-clap-clap)

by zambranofan on Oct 11, 2007 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Larry Hisle. Now there's a name from my childhood. Signed that big free agent contract with Milwaukee, had one good season (the first "Bambie's Bombers" team) and then got hurt and never played serious time again. He was Milwaukee's Mark Prior--every year they heard he was back and healthy and going to play, and every year it turned out to be an illusion.

The thing is though, Hisle walked 50-60 times a year. If Colvin does that, he's a better player that I'm thinking.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 11, 2007 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know if...

...it's just "sabermetrics" that are down on the Shark, of it's just that he had a bad year. There's a lot of scouts that are down on him, too. He still has the potential that got him drafted, so it'll be something to watch.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Oct 11, 2007 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh definitely

But there are scouts who actually like him. I don't know of any sabermetric minor league guy who likes him, other than to say "All my numbers say he's terrible but Scout X says he's got some potential so I won't write him off just yet."

I think he's raw and I think his bad numbers in Daytona were a result of him working on off-speed stuff that he never threw in college. Hard to miss many bats when the batter can sit on a change or a slider, because those are the pitches that Samardzija needed to practice on.

I still don't know if he's a starter or a reliever though.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 11, 2007 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When a guy's on the fence...

...oftentimes it depends on team need as much as anything else. If the rotation is locked down and the bullpen is shorthanded, then it really doesn't matter what his ceiling is. I still wouldn't say that it's impossible that Marmol couldn't be remade into a starter, only that the organization is very unlikely to experiment with that conversion anytime soon.

For the larger point -- I really don't trust a lot of minor league pitching stats below the AA level anyway, because the quality of fielding is so haphazard. With guys like Samardzija, where scouting reports are, if not plentiful, readily available over a decent cross-section of time, it's probably best to listen to the scouts unless they're actively contradicting what the perhipials say.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Oct 12, 2007 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

on A ball defenses. But again, the problem with Samardzija in Daytona was that he just wasn't missing many bats--and that allowed the poor defenses (and poorly maintained fields) to let him down. I don't think anyone thinks the Shark is a Brandon Webb "pitch to contact" guy. He's got a fastball and is expected to strike people out.

If a guy in the FSL is striking out a lot of people but has a high ERA because of batting average on balls in play, that's one thing. But Samardzija simply wasn't striking people out.

But as I said, I think it was an issue of him working on his secondary and tertiary pitches because of his raw inexperience. I think he has the tools and the drive to make everything click eventually--and strike batters out.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 12, 2007 2:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are right

That's part of the reason that K/9 and K/BB are two good stats for evaluating younger pitchers.

by rlpete on Oct 12, 2007 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you werent kidding

about josh donaldson. .346 avg, 9 jacks in 162 at bats, 37 walks to 34 k's. i was pretty surprised to see those stats, even if it is low a.

too bad kyler burke kind of tailed off.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Oct 12, 2007 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm worried though

I went to his MiLB page, and they listed him as a first baseman. What? He didn't play any first base at all in Boise--he caught and DH'd a lot.

Has he been moved there for next season? Or is this just some screwup at MiLB?

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 12, 2007 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Colvin and Pie

Colvin doesn't have Francoeur's arm. He has always reminded me of Shawn Green though he doesn't have the strike zone judgement of Green so he is a cross between the two.

I agree on not giving up on Pie. He is the same age as Colvin.

by JonH on Oct 13, 2007 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pie has more raw physical skills

as compared to Colvin, but Colvin has a better hitting mentality and swing.

the one unique thing about baseball, is we have seen tons of non-athletic type of guys turn out to be some of the best pure hitters and some of the best pure athletes look putrid at the plate.

Having the concentration/mental ability to consistently put the fat part of the bat on the ball, is very much independent of raw physical skills.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 13, 2007 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Colvin's hitting mentality?

He has a lower walk rate and worse K/BB rate than Pie. And he has put up just similar OPS numbers to what Pie did at the same minor league levels, but he's years older than Pie was at those levels. I have a hard time seeing how Colvin has a better hitter's mentality than Pie.

That's not meant to disparage Colvin. But Pie has shown a lot more of a hitter's mentality in the minors than Colvin has to this point, if you ask me.

by SouthernCub on Oct 13, 2007 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shawn Green

walked 90 times a year in his prime.

I think Franceour is still a better comp.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 13, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We're all forgetting...

Pagan. He's been injured for a good portion of the year but he still shows a lot of potential. He could be used as trade bait or try to find a place for him in the outfield.

by jgn17 on Oct 11, 2007 4:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Pagan

is a backup outfielder. If he's starting for the Cubs in 2008, we're in trouble.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 11, 2007 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let me add a few position players

As expected, each has certain positives and also some negatives. Here they are for what it's worth.

Hoffpauir. .319/.365/.552 with Iowa. He was injured the last 2 months and will be ready to start 2008. The downside is he will be 28 and only plays 1B. On a positive note, he's outstanding defensively, hits from the left side and has a good measure of the strike zone. He may well have been the MVP for Iowa last year without the injury.

Kroeger. .382/.449/.609 at Tenn. .263/.338/.474 at Iowa but was injured off and on. Once a highly regarded draftee with Az, he seemed to have resurrected his career with the Cubs. Bats LH and has excellent power and plays RF. While the injury last year might delay his possibility in 2008, I'm a big fan of his and, if his numbers at Tenn are nearly attainable at Iowa in 08, he's a good prospect for RF in 09.

Spears. Started at Daytona and advanced to Tenn midseason where his numbers jumped. .273/.358/.383 for the season. He's only 22 and his power numbers increased when moved up. But 2B is a deep position for us so he'll have a struggle to pass the competition. Good plate discipline and he bats LH.

Dopirak. Will he or won't he, that is the question. He seems very streaky. He's only 23 and has awesome power. However, he seems locked into 1B and has a poor BB/K rate. He started at AA and moved back to Daytona after a poor start and 21 games. Pre break .206/.233/.402. Post break .304/.359/.524. He'll need to play a strong season at AA to revive his status as a possible prospect but he has great tools.

Clevinger .340/.378/.441 at Boise and Daytona. He's a LH catcher with low power numbers. Only 247 AB last year but a 17/11 BB/K numbers. Probably wouldn't project until 2010 but keep an eye on him.

Donaldson 1B/C One of my favorites. Soigned this year out of Auburn as a C. .335/.460/.590. Only 173 AB but has excellent power and a 37/34 BB/K rate. Only 21 and a RH batter. His OBP and power are outstanding. Keep a close eye on his progress next year.

Thomas drafted out of FSU and quite possibly the future 2B of the Cubs. Just turn 21 and went .308/.404/.544 at Boise in 182 AB. Stole 28/30 bases in 46 games. Decent power for a 2B and could project as our future leadoff man.

It's not to late to go to Soto.

by tharr on Oct 11, 2007 5:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

we could really use

kroegers lefty power, hopefully he just tears it up this spring.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Oct 11, 2007 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kroeger is not on the 40-man roster...

...and if he is not added by the end of November, he will be a minor league free agent, I believe.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Oct 11, 2007 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Considering that

this is his 1st year in the Cub system and the outstanding numbers he produced when healthy, I can' imagine they wouldn't find a way to keep him.

It's not to late to go to Soto.

by tharr on Oct 11, 2007 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

tharr

very nice recap. That's for the list. I love reading posts like that one.

by cubswin on Oct 13, 2007 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It should be noted...

...that Ronny Cedeno is out of minor league options (as is Geovanny Soto.) I seriously doubt Ronny Cedeno would clear waivers, so he'll either have to be traded or kept on the 25-man roster.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Oct 11, 2007 7:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

When should Samardzija be ready?

There is no place like Nebraska - Go Huskers!

by sanantonecub on Oct 12, 2007 7:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It's hard to say.

To be frank, not a lot of wide recievers get drafted by baseball teams.

Because of his significant comittment to football in college, he's kind of a tweener -- more upside than most college players, but more risk/development time, too. It's an odd case, and I really don't know what to say here.

That said -- as a bullpen guy I think he might be ready as soon as August/September.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Oct 12, 2007 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I assume...

... he will pitch in several major league spring training games as a member of the 40-man roster. Where would you expect him to pitch in 2008? Double-A?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 12, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I really can't say.

They may look at his success at AA to end the season and decide to keep him there. But I think he'd be better served starting off the year in High A.

But you're absolutely right -- he will pitch in major-league spring training, and that'll give the club some idea of where they want him to go.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Oct 12, 2007 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i like hearing about prospects

much more than trade options. i feel like we made the big trades last year, and when we got swept by the diamondbacks, they just made us look old. The rockies too, have such a young team. i know this team isn't in "rebuild" mode after making the playoffs and spending money on long term contracts, but i really would like to see players like Pie developed and given a chance as opposed to being talked about as trade fodder for some old guy we'll blow tons of money on. in a few years when these contracts run out, we're going to have to be a young team in rebuild mode, and it would be great to be able to call on any number of young prospects to fill those holes. another reason i say this, is cause it looks like our farm system is producing some serious talent. even this year, some of the guys that came up, Soto, Hart, even Pie showed flashes of how great he could be one day. it's nice to have these kids come out of nowhere and outplay guys with arthritis and bloated contracts.

by dogcatratcheese on Oct 12, 2007 9:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ty Wright

Has anyone heard anything about Ty Wright and his progress/upside?

by tonye8300 on Oct 12, 2007 2:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Wright

His progress was great--he hit well in Boise and got promoted to Peoria in his first minor league season.

His upside? I haven't exactly heard. But he was drafted in the seventh round after his senior season in college. If he was someone people thought had a high upside, he would have gone earlier and/or after his junior season.

I wouldn't put him on my list of top-20 Cub prospects. Well, maybe down near #20.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 12, 2007 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

some love for Mitch Atkins too

not a great K/IP (88/115 in high A)...but you can't argue with 8-7, 3.13 ERA, and just 31 BBs those 115 innings. He didn't have great results when he got called up to AA (1-1 in 4 starts, 5.57 ERA), but at 21 yrs old, he could get a look in 2009 like Gallagher did this year if he continues his upward trend.

by PrincetonCubs on Oct 12, 2007 5:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Earl and Ty

Any ETA on Earl Cunningham or Ty Griffin?

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Oct 12, 2007 7:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh you're so clever

My sides hurt from laughing at that one.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 12, 2007 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember

buying about 15 Ty Griffin rookie cards, many moons ago. My sides have busted open also.
Funny no mention of Ryan Harvey, wow what a bad pick I guess.

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Oct 13, 2007 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ty Griffin...

... might have been the Cubs' worst pick EVER, especially considering that Robin Ventura was available (the White Sox took him with the next pick), and that the Cubs' 3B at the time was Vance Law; it would have been perfect. Law could have played another year or two and then Ventura could have stepped in.

Dumb, dumb, dumb. As good a player as Ventura was, he could have been even better with Wrigley Field as his home park.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 13, 2007 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

but in 1991, we took Doug Glanville with the 12th pick. Not bad, right? At least he's a major leaguer, even if he didn't play with the Cubs much.

Pick #13 was Manny Ramirez. #14 was Cliff Floyd. #15 was a Brewer pitching bust, but #16 was Shawn Green.

You're probably right about Griffin because Glanville had a long major league career whereas Griffin didn't, but if you want to go missed opportunities, missing out on three quality outfielders with one Hall of Famer and getting the mediocre one ranks right up there.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 13, 2007 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You could probably do that....

... for any draft; there are always good major league players taken far after the first round.

Earl Cunningham was just about as bad a pick as Griffin, but I don't have a list of who was taken right after him handy.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 13, 2007 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

It was Kyle Abbott. No big loss. Then Charles Johnson by Montreal, but he didn't sign.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/draft/1989/Round-1-1.shtml

That was a terrible first round. Ben McDonald as #1. Tyler Houston #2. Roger Salkeld #3. Frank Thomas was #7 (The only quality player gone one pick before us) The only real quality players were passed on were Chuck Knoblauch, Mo Vaughn and Todd Jones, and they were all taken in the 20s, so a lot of teams passed on them.

The baseball cube has a complete list of the amateur draft now. I've found some errors in the later rounds, but all the first rounds seem correct.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 13, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Changed my mind

You're absolutely right. The 1988 Cubs draft is probably the worst in Cub history. Besides passing on Ventura for Griffin, the Cubs made 46 picks in that draft. Kevin Roberson (16th round) had the best major league career of all of them. Chris Pritchett and Jesse Hollins were the only other two to even play a game in the majors (and in Hollins' case, a grand total of four games.)

A pox upon Jim Frey and the way he destroyed Gordon Goldsberry's farm system. I am still convinced that had Dallas Green not been fired, we would have won a World Series sometime from 1989 to 1993.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 13, 2007 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In the four years

that Jim Frey was GM, in the first three years, the only guy he drafted who spent and entire season in the major leagues was Dave Stevens. That was his best player--a journeyman reliever who played seven years in the minors and finished with and ERA over six.

His final draft, 1991, actually wasn't that bad, netting Doug Glanville, Terry Adams and Steve Trachsel. (Jon Lieber was also drafted, but didn't sign.) But as I pointed out, that was a loaded draft and I think every team drafting that year got someone good.

I HATE JIM FREY!

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 13, 2007 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

Stevens played seven years in the majors. He played a lot more in the minors.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 13, 2007 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Harvey

Bad pick, sure, but in a bad draft. Nick Markakis was the guy taken right after Harvey, so that looks bad, but the guy right before Harvey was Chris Lubanaski. Before that, you had Kyle Sleeth and Tim Stauffer.

It was a bad pick in a bad draft, unless you picked 1-2 and got Delmon Young or Rickie Weeks. And since it was the usually incompetent Orioles who grabbed Markakis, I'm willing to bet that pick was more luck that good scouting.

I'm willing to give the Cubs a pass on Harvey because 2003 is shaping out to be one of the worst draft classes on record.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 13, 2007 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs