Thursday 11/15 Headlines and Wrigley Resodding Project Update

by Al Yellon on Nov 15, 2007 9:56 AM CST in 2007 Wrigley Resodding Project

Before I post photos from this morning, a couple of things of interest on an otherwise slow day:

The photo editor at the Daily Herald emailed me (thanks, Bruce Miles, for the plug!) and asked if they could post a couple of the photos I took yesterday on the DH website. I gave my permission (no, they didn't pay me anything) and you can see those photos here.
Also at the Herald, Barry Rozner confirms the reports made here and elsewhere that a huge ticket price increase -- on the order of 20-25% -- is coming for 2008, with a letter on the way to season ticket holders (if it comes today, I'll post on it later), and also mentions that PSL's could be in Wrigley Field's future. Right now, that's just speculation. I know many NFL teams, including the Bears, have personal seat licenses, but I do not know if any baseball teams have yet gone this route.

This morning, they're starting to sod the outfield. You can see the rolls of sod lined up along the outfield wall here:

Closeup view of work along the 3B/LF line:

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The San Francisco Giants have PSLs

by Porfi on Nov 15, 2007 9:45 AM CST reply actions

Thanks...

... I did not know this. Do you know what their PSL price ranges are?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 15, 2007 9:51 AM CST up reply actions

They did it to raise money

for the privately-funded stadium.

Fees ranged from $1500 to $7500. They quickly sold for more on the secondary market.

One thing that PSLs do is allow the season ticket holders to scalp their tickets without fear of punishment by the team. The PSL owner also typically has right of first refusal for any other events that are held at the stadium.

by Porfi on Nov 15, 2007 10:02 AM CST up reply actions

The Giants Charter License program...

now entering the ninth year of the new ballpark, is pretty good example of how these PSL programs shake out. There was massive initial interest, and all the Charter licenses were quickly snatched up. The Giants (unknown to them at the time) sold the best seats at far lower than market price, and those rights have often changed hands in the aftermarket for 5-10 times their initial price. But so-so seats haven't appreciated at all, and overpriced outfield club seat rights (with 3-7 year contractual obligations and built-in price increases) have been virtually given away.

Click through on the current asking prices to see the crazy range CSL holders expect to get at resale. Giants

It's best to consider PSLs like a timeshare--if you bought in Hawaii (club boxes) ten years ago, you probably have some appreciation in value. Even though the annual maintenance fees (tickets) keep getting more expensive, you can find someone to take it off your hands or rent it out for a year. But if you bought in Arizona in July--you may never get out of it what you put in initially, and the fees (tickets) still have to be paid for every year. The asset becomes a liability.

The Bears PSL program has had similar results--the best non-club seats are sky-high in the aftermarket, while club level seats with tickets costing 3-4 times as much per game) were often sold at a discount until the recent stretch of Bears success. I've happily watched the price of seats near mine skyrocket, though I have no plans to sell.

Note that the Bears PSLs do not give you the right to scalp individual game tickets, I have seen letters sent by the Bears to those suspected of scalping on ebay. Even though they take money from StubHub, they still officially prohibit scalping.

There is some precedent (sort-of) for asking fans to pay up fees for existing season tickets. When the Packers renovated Lambeau Field, STH had to pay the equivalent of $2000 per season ticket as a one-time fee to keep them. (Most paid either $1400 or $600, as they have two season ticket lists after they stopped playing in Milwaukee). This didn't give them any license rights, transfer capabilities or equity, it was just a mandatory contribution to the stadium fund.

Also, the Bears offered some STH the ability to convert non-PSL seats to PSL seats last year. In exchange for the PSL fee (all profit for the Bears) they give up nothing but the transfer rights to an already-sold seat in an already-built stadium that has a waiting list of people willing to buy that seat. Easy money.

Would Wrigley STH squawk at a $1000-$2000 one-time fee per ticket, if used towards a building fund? What if they wanted $3000 or more, but you had the right to re-sell the STH rights to that seat?

by bison on Nov 15, 2007 12:23 PM CST up reply actions

Depending on the price...

... I'd say almost every STH would buy a PSL. I know I would. But for those who wouldn't, that would open up some of the waiting list.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 15, 2007 3:30 PM CST up reply actions

Of course...

yours are the seats most likely never to be sold with a PSL.

by bison on Nov 15, 2007 3:54 PM CST up reply actions

Don't be so sure about that.

If they can make money off bleacher season tickets, I'm sure they will.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 15, 2007 6:02 PM CST up reply actions

As do the Cardinals...

and maybe a few other teams. PSL's usually come with a new stadium, I haven't heard of any PSLs being sold to a stadium that wasn't just built. I'll try to see how many teams actually do have PSLs and post it later.

by stadiumguru on Nov 15, 2007 9:58 AM CST up reply actions

re: As do the Cardinals...

Some info on what teams use PSLs can be found here.

by seang03 on Nov 15, 2007 10:15 AM CST up reply actions

More Teams

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Seat_License

Arizona Diamondbacks Legacy Club Seat Licenses
San Diego Padres Founders Club Memberships
San Francisco Giants CSL Charter Seat Licenses
St. Louis Cardinals Ballpark Founders Club Seat Licenses

I still fail to see how this is different beyond higher cost versus season ticket holding.

by McCarron on Nov 15, 2007 10:11 AM CST up reply actions

Currently...

...the Cubs need no reason to prevent me (or anyone else) from renewing my season tickets. If I had a PSL they cannot prevent me from renewing unless I did something to violate the PSL agreement.

by jolietconvict on Nov 15, 2007 10:29 AM CST up reply actions

Further...

... PSL's are usually considered your property to buy or sell, or leave in your will. Thus if you paid $5000 for a PSL and someone wanted to buy it for $10,000, you can legally sell it and then the PSL (and rights to buy the tickets) belong to that individual.

You can also leave it to anyone you want after you die.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 15, 2007 10:49 AM CST up reply actions

I would be very, very

surprised if any PSL program was launched unless the new owners undertake a complete rennovation of Wrigley (sorely needed) or build a new park.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 15, 2007 4:00 PM CST up reply actions

luv the pix

Keeps those if us in tghe hinterlands up to spped.

A question on PSL's- would that apply to a ceratin number of seats (like all seaon ticket holders, or could it possibly take up a high % of the park? Not really that familiar with them- I avoid the NFL if at all possible.

Iowa f****n' State???? Again?????

by tommy veryzer on Nov 15, 2007 9:46 AM CST reply actions

yikes

sorry for the typing- need more coffee.....

Iowa f****n' State???? Again?????

by tommy veryzer on Nov 15, 2007 9:47 AM CST reply actions

Sod, sod, glorious sod!

Congrats on the photo credits, Al. I wonder why they have your name spelled so funky. Right now it shows up as "aL yELLON". Someone needs to undo their Caps Lock.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Nov 15, 2007 9:49 AM CST reply actions

LOL

Yeah, I saw that, too. I emailed the photo editor to see if they could fix that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 15, 2007 9:52 AM CST up reply actions

Rest easy, Al...

You've been 'fixed'. ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 15, 2007 11:30 AM CST up reply actions

PSL??

Can someone explain to me the difference between a personal seat license and a season ticket holder? Thanks.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson

by tucsoncubsfan on Nov 15, 2007 9:56 AM CST reply actions

A PSL...

...is the right to buy season tickets. You pay a fee upfront for the right to buy your season tickets for the next X number of years. I don't see how the Cubs could do this as it would be nothing but a blatant cash grab and would surely bring universal derision upon the team. AFAIK every other sports team that has done PSLs has done it in conjunction with either a new stadium or a major renovation ala Soldier Field.

by jolietconvict on Nov 15, 2007 10:07 AM CST up reply actions

Not necessarily

Some, if not most PSLs give people the right to buy tickets for as many years as they like.

by Porfi on Nov 15, 2007 10:12 AM CST up reply actions

Renovations

Maybe this is all in preparation for the eventual Wrigley gut rehab.

by raisin @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Nov 15, 2007 10:16 AM CST up reply actions

You're right

It appears that most PSLs do last for the entirety of the teams time in that particular stadium. The only PSL that I had any detailed familiarity with was the "Founders Pass" at Chicagoland Speedway which only lasted 15 or 20 years IIRC.

by jolietconvict on Nov 15, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions

I love Chicago...

The two guys at the bottom left of the pictures have to be union guys. I love it!

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Nov 15, 2007 9:57 AM CST reply actions

DANG

you beat me by a second!!

I propose a toast to the great 100th anniversy gift known to mankind - A CUBS WORLD SERIES VICTORY!

by BigZ 4 Cy on Nov 15, 2007 9:59 AM CST up reply actions

LOL!

Sorry - it was definitely the first thing i noticed.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Nov 15, 2007 10:15 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah, and maybe it there'd

never been unions the sod could be layed by 11 year-olds working 12 hour days.

by TR on Nov 15, 2007 9:54 PM CST up reply actions

They must be using UNION LABOR!

notice the two guys just standing there supported by their rakes (looks like we did get some form the twins)

JK!!! They are moving at a tremendous rate, Bossard and his crew are doing a fabulous job!!

I propose a toast to the great 100th anniversy gift known to mankind - A CUBS WORLD SERIES VICTORY!

by BigZ 4 Cy on Nov 15, 2007 9:58 AM CST reply actions

I deal...

With the unions a lot in my line of work. I love it - i always bust their chops.

I am almost positive all of those guys are union, if they wernt there would be strikers out there.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Nov 15, 2007 10:14 AM CST up reply actions

Pertinent Tribune article

I don't see this posted anywhere, so here's a link to an article in today's Trib about the drainage project. It contains some interesting technical details as well as some stats on weather-related cancellations.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Nov 15, 2007 10:00 AM CST reply actions

SORIANO'S HUMMER

I'm so glad that the 12 bucks more I'll be paying will help Soriano pimp his ride!

http://www.foulballs.net/2007/07/alfonso-soriano-knows-how-to-pimp-his.html

At least I can still watch the next Soto here in Iowa for $8 a game!

"They (Expos fans) discovered 'boo' is pronounced the same in French as it is in English." -Harry Caray

by IowaCubs- on Nov 15, 2007 10:27 AM CST reply actions

The "next Soto"?

What exactly does that mean?

by lemon20pie on Nov 15, 2007 4:59 PM CST up reply actions

Next Soto Answer...

Just an example of what is still fun about being a Cubs fan in their AAA affiliate city. I got to watch Soto as an overwieght struggling average catcher last year turn into someone who really worked his ass off to drop weight, level his swing and take the ball to all sides of the ballpark this year. His defense wasn't shabby either.

It's fun to watch the prospects develop into full fledged Cubbies, that's all, and I can do it relatively cheaply in Des Moines.

I've seen Mark Prior, Ryan Dempster, Greg Maddux (80s -- I was 10 at the time), Zambrano, Prior and Wood pitch, D-Lee (rehab stint), Mark Grace, etc... It's fun to watch guys just before they "make it."

"They (Expos fans) discovered 'boo' is pronounced the same in French as it is in English." -Harry Caray

by IowaCubs- on Nov 16, 2007 9:32 AM CST up reply actions

Not to be a hater...

but isn't that old/irrelevant "news"? There's nothing surprising about rich athletes/celebrities going crazy with their cars. I'm pretty sure I would do the same (though not quite as cheesey as my name on the hood). And, hard to say, agreed with lemon, what does the next Soto thing mean?

2007 Badger Football - 1-0

by Schwa on Nov 15, 2007 7:12 PM CST up reply actions

Ive seen

That eye sore of a car in their parking lot. What an annoying car....especially for a city.
Just hit homers and steal some bases when needed

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Nov 15, 2007 10:37 AM CST reply actions

I suppose...

I'd have a sweet ride with $130+ million. I'd probably request a helipad on top of one of the rooftops or something.

"They (Expos fans) discovered 'boo' is pronounced the same in French as it is in English." -Harry Caray

by IowaCubs- on Nov 15, 2007 11:39 AM CST up reply actions

Can't wait...

... to see a Cub player driving around in a hybrid Prius or Civic.

I loved it when Mike Lowell was presented with a hybrid SUV and car for winning the World Series MVP... he clearly didn't seem that excited about driving around in a hybrid Malibu.

DmL

by dmlichte on Nov 15, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions

PSL's

I have been worried that any new owner might just do this since the sale was 1st announced and now I see other people are talking about this also (see Jessica...I'm not the only one thinking this might happen). I am just wondering, the other teams, do partial season ticket holder pay the PSL or is it just full season ticket holders? and if the Cubs do go the way of PSL's, do they eliminate the partial season tickets. As someone who has had season tickets about 25 years now, and truely, that is my only "vice" - going to the games, this would hurt me. The ticket increase itself is going to put a big hit on my wallet. And to the person in the last thread where I complained about this...I have only 1 seat and to sell 1 seat alone is very difficult, I know, I have tried many many times and had to eat the ticket because no one would take it even for under face value since it is only a single - so "scapling" my tickets for games I don't go to is not really a solution to the extra cost problem. Once again, the little guy gets shut out and the game goes to the rich guy.

Kasey

See the Cubs 2008 schedule at http://ignarski.tripod.com/sched2008.html

by kaseyi on Nov 15, 2007 11:28 AM CST reply actions

i think you are talking about me

regardless I'll give my two cents. that would suck if you lost your partial season ticket plan. I understand that they want to guarantee as much money as possible, but by handling it the way they are they are definitely eliminating a lot of possible ticket holders. My buddy's parents have a partial season ticket plan with the cardinals (27 games) that is awesome. Unfortunately nothing like that is available up here. Good luck to you with that. hopefully you aren't forced to give them up.

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Nov 15, 2007 11:53 AM CST up reply actions

Yes I did scoff at the idea

when you mentioned it. I still think it is totally speculative especially since we have no idea who the new owner could be. I think doing this without some HUGE renovation would be difficult. There will be a huge backlash and the Cubs do have to keep in nice with King Richard if they want to do much of anything at Wrigley. I say let them propose it the year AFTER they win the WS.

"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Nov 15, 2007 12:04 PM CST up reply actions

This is...

...purely speculative on my part, but if they did go the PSL route my guess is that they would probably eliminate the partial plans. They haven't sold any new ones since before the 2004 season and they have no legal obligation to continue to offer them to those of us who were grandfathered in.

I'm really curious to see how the price increase is done. We're in section 508 so we're the first section of the UDR "Outfield". I first got the tickets in '04 and we've only had 1 price increase since then. I'm wondering if they're going to continue to keep these tickets relatively low so that they can say they have a a "bargain" option or if they're finally going to pile on the increases that we've avoided.

by jolietconvict on Nov 15, 2007 2:03 PM CST up reply actions

Herald link is broken

Al the link they gave you in the Daily Herald article doesn't work correctly.

by Tim Dierkes on Nov 15, 2007 12:29 PM CST reply actions

they seem to work...

for me.

by bison on Nov 15, 2007 12:41 PM CST up reply actions

They still work for me, too.

And, yes, Al's name has been fixed!

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Nov 15, 2007 12:47 PM CST up reply actions

Yep.

Link works fine for me, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 15, 2007 3:29 PM CST up reply actions

Sod now in left field!

3:30 pm CT:

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 15, 2007 3:33 PM CST reply actions

Thanks Al!

Not sure what makes me smile more, the ballpark or the news that Bonds could be someone's b**ch in the near future!

Cubs chances in '08? Beats the FUK-U-DO-ME!

by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan on Nov 15, 2007 5:42 PM CST up reply actions

Big Z got 5th in Cy Young Voting

NL Cy Young Voting
Jake Peavy joins Roger Clemens as the only starting pitchers to win a Cy Young Award without tossing a complete game.

NL voting Pitcher 1st 2nd 3rd Total
Peavy, S.D. 32 -- -- 160
Webb, Ari. -- 31 1 94
Penny, L.A. -- -- 14 14
Others receiving votes: Aaron Harang, 10; Carlos Zambrano, 3; Cole Hamels, 2; John Smoltz, 2; Jose Valverde, 2; Jeff Francis, 1.

by Mordecai on Nov 15, 2007 4:31 PM CST reply actions

field

Since we all know that home plate has been moved several times in the past wouldn't have been cool if they just tweaked the field just a hair so that either the right field or left field foul pole would have to go in the side walls where they run right by the foul line? It would be like the peske pole in Fenway. Just have a little hook shot in right field that is about 320"

by calvin12 on Nov 15, 2007 4:37 PM CST reply actions

So the "Human Bobblehead" is

indicted today. Perjury and obstruction of justice. Why do not I not feel sorry for that jerk?

I can't wait for 2008!

by LAcarl519 on Nov 15, 2007 5:18 PM CST reply actions

If convicted

he could face up to 30 years in prison. Will he actually see jail time? Although skeptical, I really hope so...he's such an arrogant SOB.

He'll say he's being unfairly targeted, blah blah blah...he lied to a grand jury. That's just not something you do, no matter who you are!

So long HOF for Barroid!

Cubs chances in '08? Beats the FUK-U-DO-ME!

by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan on Nov 15, 2007 5:41 PM CST up reply actions

On ticket prices...

So, AL, and other STH readers, if our seats go up 20-25%, will the general public seats go up as well?

They went up around 5%-7% in 2007

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 15, 2007 6:10 PM CST reply actions

Strictly as a guess...

... and I have no information here, I'm thinking they'll probably continue the difference between STH prices and single-game prices they began a year ago... with the gap probably getting larger.

This would likely mean a single-game bleacher ticket would go for $50 -- and maybe $46 or so for season tickets.

This is pure speculation, until I get the letter. When I get it I'll post about it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 15, 2007 8:25 PM CST up reply actions

Al, I was wondering

Have you ever heard of anyone losing their season tickets because of scalping? I know the Cubs' "official" take is that you can lose your tickets. But I've sold on StubHub and never really worried. I figured a team that scalps its own seats would take a rather nasty PR hit if they started taking away seats from fans who have, in my case, had their tickets for 20 years. Of course the Trib is such a heartless outfit, it was probably naive of me to think that way.

by TR on Nov 15, 2007 9:58 PM CST reply actions

I don't know...

... the answer to this. Almost all sports teams pay lip service, at least, to taking season tickets away if they're scalped. I think the Yankees have, in a couple of well-publicized cases, actually done so.

But whether or not other teams do so, I really don't know.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 15, 2007 10:02 PM CST up reply actions