Angels sign Hunter

by CubFaninCA on Nov 22, 2007 1:45 AM CST

5 years and 80 million.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3123200

I'm guessing Rowand's the next cf to sign and am thinking the Dodgers are the frontrunner. Will be interesting to see where Andruw Jones goes. Am wondering if the White Sox will grossly overpay Jones after missing out on Hunter.

Nice addition for Anaheim. They play in a huge market so it's not a big deal for them to overpay some. They need to improve their offense. I have a feeling they'll go after Miguel Cabrera now..

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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It's a terrible move

for the Angels. Now they're stuck with five outfielders and Hunter is yet another guy who doesn't get on base. Oh yeah, and Hunter is a bad percentage base stealer too, which makes his just OK OBP into a below average. Defensively, Hunter is slipping. He's now below the American League Average in zone rating for center fielders and has been for the last couple of seasons.

If they're willing to cut bait on Matthews Jr. then it looks a little less bad, but that's a huge contract to eat--and four years to boot. Anderson is in his last season, I guess.

(Maybe they're expecting Matthews to get suspended?)

And to give Hunter five years? Hunter is already slowing down. What is he going to be like at 36?

But knowing the Angels, it's clear why they signed them. He's a "good clubhouse presence" and he always hustles on the field.

Hunter had a good season last year and if he can keep it up, it won't be terrible. But he's on the wrong side of 30 and he's only hit over 30 home runs a season once. I don't think he's going to be a very good player in three years.

This is also bad news for the Cubs, because it means that the Rangers are now back into the Fukudome sweepstakes. (Although I have a hard time believing that Fukudome would rather play in Dallas than Chicago.)

At least this means that the Angels won't be bringing back Darin Erstad. At least I think they won't.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Nov 22, 2007 2:39 AM CST reply actions

Who are these

5 outfielders?

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Nov 22, 2007 9:36 AM CST up reply actions

6 OFs

Vlad, Hunter, Mathews, Anderson, Rivera & Willits

(7 if you count Figgins as well.)

D-LEE!

by airweino on Nov 22, 2007 11:25 AM CST up reply actions

Anderson's a DH

They can use Willits in a trade now. Rivera's been hurt and is not a starter anyways.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Nov 22, 2007 11:34 AM CST up reply actions

Rivera certainly was a starter when healthy...

OPS of .887 in 2006, and his career OPS is over .800. And he's going to be healthy next year, as he was back with the team by season's end this past year.

It does create a logjam. They have 5 capable OF starters not including Anderson (who really should be a DH at this point). I agree that someone is going to have to get traded.

by SouthernCub on Nov 22, 2007 12:46 PM CST up reply actions

The Angels lacked power

3rd in obp in the AL, 4th in runs, 12th in home runs...

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Nov 22, 2007 11:15 AM CST up reply actions

I really think that

these crazy zone numbers and all that junk is really overrated. I think sometimes you just need to know if the guy can handle his jock, thats it. Hunter can play. Period. Is it good for the Angles, I'm not sure. But all these numbers that people throw around seem to be getting out of hand.

I would not fight Jason Kendall.

by TCobb1911 on Nov 22, 2007 10:49 PM CST up reply actions

Um.

"I think sometimes you just need to know if the guy can handle his jock, thats it."

Ok, so... what if this isn't one of those times? What if the question we're trying to answer is, are the Angels a better baseball club now than they were earlier?

"Is it good for the Angles, I'm not sure."

Oh. So maybe we do need to know more than just whether or not a guy can "handle his jock."

I can understand the premise that statistical analysis takes something away from the "poetry" of baseball or whatnot; there is an aescetic quality to baseball that doesn't show up on stats sheets. I don't neccesarily agree with the arguement, but I get it.

But the question wasn't whether Hunter can play. The question is, how much better can Hunter play compared to what the Angels have, how many wins does that net him, and could they have spent that same amount of money on more wins elsewhere.

Nobody's trying to force statistical analysis down your throat. I'm sure there are plenty of places -- some of them perhaps even on this very site -- where people will muse over the beauty of the enemy of the pure and good - the sacrifice bunt, or whatever.

What is it you expect us to do here, actually? Stop wondering about how good baseball players are in relation to one another? Stop trying to evaluate fielding with the same sort of precision we use for hitting? Start trusting the BBWAA to determine which ballplayers are good and bad for us?

I don't get it. What's out of hand about wanting to know more about baseball?

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 22, 2007 11:56 PM CST up reply actions

Even tossing out zone ratings

(and no defensive metric is perfect, I admit), if you go by "what people say," then Gary Matthews Jr. is a great center fielder and there was absolutely no reason to "upgrade" to Hunter. (Zone rating says otherwise on Matthews, though.)

And no stats are needed to say the Angels now have five or six outfielders who can start. Four of which (Hunter, Matthews, Guerrero and Anderson) are untradable for one reason or another. And don't mention the DH, because the Angels have two first basemen in Casey Kotchman and Kendry Morales.

If you believe in stats, this move doesn't make sense. If you don't believe in stats, this move doesn't make sense.

The only way it really makes sense is if Matthews is going to get suspended for the season or something. And we know that isn't going to happen. The worst he could get is 60 days, and I doubt an arbiter would uphold that much.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Nov 23, 2007 5:51 AM CST up reply actions

Do you belive in

Garrett Anderson staying healthy?

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Nov 23, 2007 4:06 PM CST up reply actions

Willits, Morales and Saunders can be

dealt now, after the additions of Garland and Hunter. The Angels may have enough for both Cabrera and Dontrelle, if you add Brandon Wood and Ervin Santana.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Nov 23, 2007 4:14 PM CST up reply actions

Not a big fan of numbers either

but what the hell does "handle his jock" mean? I handle my jock from time to time but the Angels weren't interested in me. I am confuswed by this argument.

MMMMM...Turkey, stuffing, corn, and vegetable pizza! Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

by Kinky Reggae on Nov 23, 2007 8:27 AM CST up reply actions

Sentiment

over at Halo's Heaven seems to be running at least 2 to 1 against this move.

And they're saying Sarge Lite has a no-trade clause.

But if the Angels are willing to give away Juan Rivera now, I'd listen. That's a guy I'd like if we could get him cheap.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Nov 22, 2007 2:47 AM CST reply actions

Nah

He's a 29 year old right handed bat with injury issues. I mean if we could get him for pennies, sure, but we've got our own OF surplus.

by IllinoisCubs on Nov 22, 2007 3:13 AM CST up reply actions

Wow

Hunter hates Wrigley Field he put the Cubs in his no-trade clause.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/los-angeles-angels-of-anaheim.html

Boston, Detroit, Tampa Bay & Toronto too. Gotta have those highlight home run robberies!

by IllinoisCubs on Nov 22, 2007 3:17 AM CST reply actions

maybe he's allergic

to brick and ivy. Actually, I seem to recall him saying before that he'd get killed playing in wrigley.

by davidalanu on Nov 22, 2007 6:30 AM CST up reply actions

As up and down as Torii is....

much like a former ex-Twin OF recently traded, I think he saw the treatment he would get when he is struggling.

by LuisSalazar on Nov 22, 2007 7:46 AM CST up reply actions

Part of it is...

... Hunter likes to make those SportsCenter catches leaping over walls. He couldn't do that at Wrigley Field.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 22, 2007 9:30 AM CST up reply actions

probably means

the Halos won't trade for Miguel Cabrera.

I can't believe the Angels have about $120 million committed to Hunter and Matthews fr the next four years.

by elgato on Nov 22, 2007 8:29 AM CST reply actions

You don't know the Angels owner, do you?

If anything creates a logjam for the Angels that can only be solved by trading for Cabrera. I see the exact oppisite of what you do.

by IllinoisCubs on Nov 22, 2007 9:41 AM CST up reply actions

not an Angels expert, no

But they're not the Yankees or the Red Sox. They're pockets aren't that deep.

If signing Hunter meant the Angels could trade one of the three guys affected by this -- Vlad, Matthews or Erstad -- for Cabrera, I see your point. But the Marlins won't want any of those guys.

by elgato on Nov 22, 2007 10:00 AM CST up reply actions

Why do you think

their pockets aren't deep? Moreno is worth over a billion dollars and the Angels come close to selling out every game in the second largest media market in the country (Almost twice as big as Chicago, I might add.) Their TV ratings are better than the Dodgers right now.

They can spend with anybody in baseball, should they chose to. This is not the little Disney owned Angels that was happy to cater just to Orange County. Moreno's Angels are the New York Mets of the West Coast.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Nov 22, 2007 7:14 PM CST up reply actions

Agree

The Angels have no need to pinch pennies.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Nov 23, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions

Why not?

They were ready to pay ARod.. Colon's huge contract is gone. Garrett Anderson's a free agent after next year and it's doubtful they bring him back. Swapping Orlando Cabrera for Garland gives them the ability to deal someone like Joe Saunders to Florida... This also makes Reggie Willits and his .391 opb expendable.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Nov 22, 2007 11:21 AM CST up reply actions

well ...

they clearly weren't ready to pay A-Rod all that much, or he wouldn't be back with the Yankees.

On the other hand, the Marlins aren't allowing teams a negotiating window before dealing Cabrera, who is signed for two more years. So getting him won't necessarily mean taking on that much salary.

Anyway, this is a terrible signing.

by elgato on Nov 22, 2007 11:43 AM CST up reply actions

Awful

Last year Matthews and now Hunter. I guess it means that Figgins definitely at 3rd now. They are probably out of the Cabrera discussions.

by rlpete on Nov 22, 2007 8:38 AM CST reply actions

seems to me

they won their division again last year. And they certainly will be the favorite again this year. There is plenty of money in baseball. Contracts are only going up and they have done well so far this off season. I doubt they are done yet.
Heck, I bet this move makes Billy Beane realize that he can't win the division and start trading Haren, Blanton and Harden for prospects. He needs them because his farm system is awful.

by cubswin on Nov 22, 2007 10:05 AM CST up reply actions

They overpaid

and I would guess, will be regretting this deal in the not too distant future.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 22, 2007 9:41 AM CST reply actions

Hunter and Z

are making about the same money. Wow.

by elgato on Nov 22, 2007 10:01 AM CST reply actions

Have to admit, never saw this one coming

Gotta say, I think this whole CF musical chairs game is the most intriguing thing about free agency this year. After the Hunter signing, now you have four teams with CF holes (White Sox, Rangers, Phillies, San Diego) going after the three big names left (Rowand, AJones, and Cameron). And Cameron has a 25 game asterisk after his name...

I can think of only one CFer who's happier than Hunter right now. Yep, Corey Patterson will be sitting down to dinner today with a lot to be thankful for.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 22, 2007 10:17 AM CST reply actions

I wouldn't be surprised...

... to see Kenny Williams go after Patterson, if he can't get one of the others.

And to think that the White Sox traded Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik and Luis Vizcaino after the 2004 season.

I'm guessing that if Hendry had offered, say, Patterson and Kyle Farnsworth, Carlos Lee could have been a Cub.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 22, 2007 1:30 PM CST up reply actions

Al....

First, Happy Thanksgiving....

Second, Kenny Williams did not all of a sudden get stupid. IMHO, outside of last year, he has done an excellent job of providing his manager with a lineup that can and has won. Patterson will not end up there.

If you want to rip on KW, his evaluation of young talent has killed the White Sox. I still think what Hendry has done with expensive long term deals is MUCH worse than what Williams has ever done.

Even the Linebrink signing, which I agree is stupid, is only a minimal risk because if he has a good year, he can be unloaded because there is always a need for middle relievers.

Not that I care who starts in CF for the WS, but if I had to guess it will be A. Jones or that Owens kid. Also, don't count out the WS on Fukudome. I would not be shocked to see him land there.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Nov 22, 2007 7:16 PM CST up reply actions

One could argue that KW was always stupid...

...but that's an arguemen for another day.

But Corey Patterson on a short-term deal could well be a better bargain than Andruw Jones on a long-term deal -- and Al has said that before. So he wasn't, in this instance, insulting Williams.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 22, 2007 8:33 PM CST up reply actions

Please re-read....

Never said Al called him stupid.

Also, no way no how Jones gets a long term deal. IMHO, he will do a one year contract in an attempt to up his value for FA next year.

As for KW being stupid, I think the jury is still out. If he can make a deal or two and win with this bunch, he will be okay. If not, the WS win (although something I would love here) will be looked at as a fluke.

My guess on the WS is that they land Jones to a one year and they go hard after Fukudome.

FWIW, on paper the Lee deal looks crazy. However, this is not fantasy baseball. He did not fit on that club. The trade provided the team with the leadoff hitter they needed, relief help and also financial flexibility.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Nov 23, 2007 6:36 AM CST up reply actions

Don't make me post your quote on the Pods trade...

"And to think that the White Sox traded Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik and Luis Vizcaino after the 2004 season."

Pods and Vizcaino were key parts of the '05 World Championship White Sox team.

by DrCrawdad on Nov 22, 2007 8:42 PM CST up reply actions

Really?

A guy who hit below the league average and played an average left field was a key part of the team?

I mean, seriously, the guy was next-to-last in OPS among left fielders who qualified for the batting title. The guy was barely not the worst regular at his position that year as a hitter.

Guys on offense for the White Sox who were key in 2005:

Paul Konerko

Maybe Iguchi and Dye, too - they had good years, but nothing spectacular. But Pods? According to VORP he was about as key as Carl Freakin' Everett.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 23, 2007 12:20 AM CST up reply actions

Seeing is believing...

I watched nearly every Sox game of the '05 season, Pods. was a key part of the '05 team. I am not saying that he was THE reason the Sox won 99 games and went 11-1 in the post-season but he was a key part of their success. What he brought to the Sox offense and how he effected pitchers when he was on base I think played a role in the '05 Sox huge number of one run wins.

Pods. had only two HR that year, one in the ALDS and one HUGE one in the World Series.

Pods. was a big part of the '05 team IMHO, outside of stats. Now beat it Pods. But feel free to leave you wife here.

by DrCrawdad on Nov 23, 2007 1:04 AM CST up reply actions

A few thoughts

Hunter certainly got a ton of cash but he didn't do it by going to a team that was a long ways from the playoffs. The Sox and Rangers have a lot of work to do and would have sunk an excess of their money on Hunter. Hunter got the money AND a winning team.

Steve Stone made some good comments about Hunter yesterday, chief among them were some words from scouts who felt that the worry was that Hunter would not be a CF by the time his contract was up, in part due to his playing so many games on the Metrodome artificial turf which for many years was really horrid stuff (before installing the Fieldturf). He is a nice hitter, not an exceptional hitter but his value is contingent upon him being a CF. It annoys me to see the Twins not spend money as they are a year or so away from moving into a new ballpark, however I don't see losing Hunter as a bad thing for them.

Aaron Rowand... your table is ready. But for those interested, buyer beware. He's a 30-year old coming off a career year, looking to cash in. If he can reproduce his 2007 numbers, fine, but here's to guessing that years 3-5 of his contract are a bit unpleasant.

DmL

by dmlichte on Nov 22, 2007 10:41 AM CST reply actions

Dodgers will definatly be next

to make a big move. Whether is if Jones or Rowand, or maybe even Cabrera.

PIE!!!

by LilLPLancer23 on Nov 22, 2007 12:05 PM CST reply actions

One way or the other, whoever bounces first,

I think Cabrera will end up in L.A.

PIE!!!

by LilLPLancer23 on Nov 22, 2007 12:05 PM CST up reply actions

In BCB's F.A. Predictions,

did anyone pick this move?

PIE!!!

by LilLPLancer23 on Nov 22, 2007 12:07 PM CST reply actions

Not a single person with

Hunter to the Angels...

Its official, nobody is perfect....

PIE!!!

by LilLPLancer23 on Nov 22, 2007 12:18 PM CST up reply actions

That will make...

... two picks on the list where everyone gets zero points, because I doubt Barry Bonds will be playing baseball anywhere in 2008.

Well, except on a prison team.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 22, 2007 1:31 PM CST up reply actions

Almost everyone will have at least 3 wrong

After the return of the prodigal A-son, I went back and quickly skimmed through the entries - I saw only one BCBer (Harry something I think) who correctly picked ARod going back to the Yankees. And even though I missed the entry deadline, I was wrong on ARod too.

I have to say, collectively speaking, I'm a little embarrassed for us BCBers that only one of us saw that one coming. I know the Sons of Steinbrenner were very adamant in their he-doesn't-want-to-be-a-yankee-screw-him approach, and Boras was the devil personified with his Game 4 opt-out timing and I know A-Rod was just being led by the nose, but c'mon people - we're talking Steinbrenners, Boras, ARod, Yankees, The Big Apple, and MONEY MONEY MONEY! I was all caught up in glee that the Yankee kingdom was crumbling and ARod wasn't going to get his $350M, that I was just blinded to reality and a little common sense....

[sigh]

I just saw Casino Royale last night, so as my punishment I'm gonna go sit on a chair with the seat ripped out of it and think about my failings for awhile...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 23, 2007 10:01 AM CST up reply actions

Angels and CFers

If you were the Yankees and the Angels offered Hunter and Matthews for A-Rod, wouldn't you laugh in thier face? Regardless of personnel on each team for the time being, it would be a horrible trade for any team that currently had A-Rod.

Just think about that for a bit.

by NO100 on Nov 22, 2007 1:36 PM CST reply actions

perfect bonds quote

Bonds can play with Ricky Vaughn in the California Penal League

by dkowal22 on Nov 22, 2007 3:18 PM CST reply actions

Isn't It $90M?

5/18...

by initram on Nov 22, 2007 6:21 PM CST reply actions

Happy Thanksgiving

I haven't heard much about the Cubs going after Rowand, but I'd love to see Rowand in our lineup. I'd prefer him over Fukudome. He's proven and he's more than capable of handling right field. Plus he's familiar with Chicago, that has to count for something.

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Nov 22, 2007 8:12 PM CST reply actions

That's not a bad idea although...

310/361/544
270/329/407
262/321/425
309/374/515

Which Rowand will we get?

by IllinoisCubs on Nov 22, 2007 8:40 PM CST up reply actions

According to a local writer in L.A.......

...this puts Anderson in LF, Hunter in CF, Matthews in RF and Guerrero as the full time DH. As others on Halo Heaven have said, the Angels are going to go league minimum in the INF, with Kotchman at 1B, Kendrick at 2B, Aybar at SS and Wood at 3B. Figgins is the fall back 3B plan if Wood still can't make the team again out of Spring training.

Juan Rivera will ne kept as LF insurance for Anderson, but Reggie Willits is now available. I'd love to see him in a Cubs' uniform in CF which would make Pie expendable for a trade. I doubt it would cost an arm and a leg to get Willits. Depending on how Wood does, it might make them keep Willits and make Figgins expendable. Figgins would look great as the Cub SS too.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Nov 23, 2007 12:22 AM CST reply actions

That's a really stupid plan

Vlad is a better fielder than Anderson. Vlad's .OPS takes a sizeable dip whenever he DHs.

I think we'll see a split at DH between Anderson and Vlad depending on who is hurting more that day.

by IllinoisCubs on Nov 23, 2007 2:03 AM CST up reply actions

Maybe....

..when Vlad has been hurting he is put in the DH spot- so his OBP has been lower because he's hurt, not because he's the DH.

"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on Nov 23, 2007 2:26 AM CST up reply actions

Not so stupid at all.......

....the last couple of years, Guerrero has been getting banged up at the end of the year. He DH'd a lot due to arm problems. His once vaunted rocket arm is still there, but he's getting betrayed by elbow chips, tendon problems and general age issues. Although turning 32 this February might not sound all that old yet, many forget that when the Angels signed him, a lot of teams were leery of him due to his back. He's graceful in a gangly, awkward way, and the feeling is he's always a hard swing away from screwing his back up for good. He knows no strike zone, which Rex Hudler describes as from "his nose to his toes", and so many of his swings are really ugly. By making him a DH, the thought is this will extend him immeasurably.

And knowing the Angels, Vlad will still get his time in RF, as Scioscia loves to rotate guys, keeping them fresh. I imagine Anderson will DH some, as will Matthews. As for Guerrero's OPS dipping DH's, in the past that means a poorer hitter had been in the field and he had even less protection. Anderson's never been considered a protector of Vlad in the order. They figure Hunter fills this need.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Nov 23, 2007 9:12 AM CST up reply actions

Figgins a SS?

Here are his career game totals:

3B 281
CF 244
2B 102
LF 35
RF 27
SS 27

Now tell me how this qualifies him to be a regular shortstop in the major leagues. Is it because he's a speedy guy who can play infield?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2007 8:59 AM CST up reply actions

Those stats mean nothing to Scioscia.....

....when it comes to Figgins. He came up as a 2B/SS but was blocked by Kennedy and Eckstein. Due to his size, they weren't sold on Figgins being an everyday position player for the longest time. He has ended up playing in about 150 games or so the last four years, but they've never handed him a regular place, unless super utility guy is that spot. In his career, his role has been to play wherever there's been a sudden need. 3B, for example, arose because Dallas McPherson can never stay healthy. The Angels have been waiting for years for that guy to take the job. Given the way this off-season have evolved for them, McPherson might still get yet another chance to win the job next Spring. If he doesn't and Brandon Wood isn't ready, if not traded, then Figgins will likely be the fall back plan there, just as he was in 2006 for center field after they gave up on Steve Finley.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Nov 23, 2007 9:28 AM CST up reply actions

At 3B, yes.

You're right that he was a 2B/SS prospect. But note at the ML level, he has played nearly five times as many games at 2B than SS. I doubt he could be an everyday SS in the major leagues at this point.

"Super utility guy" isn't a bad position. Mark DeRosa did it pretty well for the Rangers, and may do it again for the Cubs. Tony Phillips was a very good one for a number of years.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2007 9:39 AM CST up reply actions

Figins at SS?

Have you ever seen him throw? His arm is so weak that he makes Riot's arm look positively rocket-like. When he plays 3B, he always plays shallow for the same reason, which severely limits his range. He also has bad hands, which is not a good trait in a middle infielder.

Figgins and DeRo becames super-utility men for totally different reasons: Figgins, because he can't play any position very well, but they need his bat in the lead-off spot. DeRo, because his glove (and arm) was good at every position, but he was stuck behind better hitters (Furcal, Chipper, Michael Young, Hank Blalock, etc.)

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 23, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions

To add to the throwing issue...

he can't field the damn ball!!!! To call him an average fielder is being kind. He's had every chance to take the 2nd base and SS spots there, and can't because the alternatives all have better gloves. Super-utility is a kind way of saying we like your speed, but can't afford to have you fielding an infield spot as a regular.

Love those Angels, and I really hope they sell high on Figgins this off-season.

by Damen Jackson on Nov 23, 2007 1:41 PM CST up reply actions

Sigghhh.....

....I live less than 30 minutes from Angel Stadium. I've seen Figgins countless times in person and on TV. Yes, I've seen him throw and yes, he can field the damn ball. I don't know what or who you two guys have been watching, but Figgins can field the position. I'm not saying he's a Gold Glove shortstop, but he definitely can play it. He's been behind Eckstein and then Cabrera at short, Kennedy and now Kendrick at second. It isn't as if stiffs were keeping him away from the middle infield. If you two don't like him, fine. Come up with another solution for replacing Theriot.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Nov 24, 2007 12:44 AM CST up reply actions

Sigh...

all you like. I've no idea what commentary on Figgins has to do with Theriot, but I assure you I wasn't thinking of one when speaking of the other.

As for Figgins, my opinion is based on the half dozen or so Angels games a year that I see, as well as the ongoing commentary from area colleagues and associates, and the general fan base, some of which are professional evaluators of talent at the college and minor league level. Oh, and the fact that he's only ever played a handful of games at SS, and had a .943 fielding percentage and 11 errors at 3rd last year. In 99 games. And .878 at 3rd in 2006! That's Ryan Bruan country.

I think the better question is what games are you watching?

by Damen Jackson on Nov 24, 2007 10:58 AM CST up reply actions

We'll Agree To Disagree

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Nov 24, 2007 12:10 PM CST up reply actions

Looking at the 2007 ZR data...

...and the Fans Scouting Report, it seems to me his arm is fine, and his range is excellent. It's his hands that are bad.

Figgins wouldn't be a good defensive shortstop, but I don't think he'd be a defensive liability out there, either. And his bat would be a definate upgrade for the Cubs.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 24, 2007 3:22 PM CST up reply actions

Just wondering though

With Willits now expendable, would a deal starting with Willits, Wood and a pitcher (Santana, Adenhart?) be offered for Miguel Cabrera.

Seems that with Garland and Hunter, the Angels have some excess they could spin off for a big trade.

by rlpete on Nov 24, 2007 7:59 AM CST up reply actions

That's exactly the thinking...

....they want to avoid giving up Kendrick and Adenhart, but suddenly the untouchable Wood can be had considering who they'd get in return. A package of Wood, Santana or Joe Saunders, Kendry Morales, Willits, and Aybar or Izturis is also being considered. The Angels are so deep, they could do that and not really blink.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Nov 24, 2007 9:44 AM CST up reply actions

Angels have way too many outfielders...

...and Cubs have way too many infielders, especially if the Matsui deal goes through. So naturally it's only a matter of time before the Pie for Figgins trade rumors begin... ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 23, 2007 10:07 AM CST reply actions