ESPN Trade Games

by louslovechild on Nov 28, 2007 12:08 PM CST

I heard Waddle and Silvy on ESPN 1000 talking about trade rumors regarding the Cubs. Silvy threw this idea out there and I was shocked at how amazingly bad it sounded, but after a second thought it seems very nice for both ends. Wanted to know what you guys thought out there.

Minnesota gives up Johan Santana

Cubs give up - Hill, Marmol, Pie, Prior (we pay Prior's salary)

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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on mlbtr

it says,

"Jon Heyman said yesterday the Twins would want Melky Cabrera plus one of Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy."

now melky is good, but id say pie projects to be at least as good and hopefully better. ian kennedy is nothing special, a good pitcher and prospect, but id take marmol over him in a heartbeat. throw in rich hill, and i dont like the trade for the cubs.

call me crazy, i just dont think its worth it for the cubs to give up pie, marmol and hill for johan who, while he may be considered "the best in the game" he sure wasnt last year, and his stats have been trending in the wrong direction.

id love to have him, but not at that price. i hope the cubs stay far away from johan santana talks.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Nov 28, 2007 12:01 PM CST 0 recs

The Twins would want more

The Yanks would do a Cabrera/Kennedy deal in a heartbeat. I've heard that the Twins may want hitting rather than pitching if they trade Santana. If you look at their top prospects lists, there are a lot more pitchers. Outside of Mauer and Morneau, their hitting is pretty weak especially without Hunter.

by rlpete on Nov 28, 2007 12:26 PM CST up 0 recs

never will happen

Im not in love with this idea, i hate the sound of it to be truthful. Although Santana holds two Cy Young awards, A 15-13 record last year scares me, Arm surgury to remove bone chips scares me, let the Yankees pull another Carl Pavano. Santana is not worth all of our blossoming prospects.

by Believeincubbieblue23 on Nov 28, 2007 12:08 PM CST 0 recs

Twins might be looking grin for a few years...

Torii Hunter is gone. (Yes, he's aging, still, a seven-time Gold Glove winner isn't easily replaced!)

Santana is reported to be quite expensive,

The Twins tried to lock up Santana too, but he's interested in a deal that could approach six years and $150 million.
(...)
The Yankees, Red Sox and Angels are three teams known to have talked with the Twins about Santana. The Twins are aiming high, asking for as many as four players in return.

...and talks with the team are not doing well.

And apparently, Joe Nathan is feeling some itchy feet also.

From the article:

There are indications from some club officials that if Santana is dealt, they also might look to move closer Joe Nathan, who will make $6 million in 2008.
Nathan's situation mirrors Santana's. Both are considered among the best at their positions. Both can become free agents after the 2008 season. The Twins have been unsuccessful in trying to sign either to long-term deals. Both could fetch quality players who could help keep the club competitive, although the return for Santana likely would be much greater.

Now, the Cubs do not need Nathan - we're well-situated in the closer/late innings/fireman area, with Marmol, Howry, and Wood. Still, I don't see the Twins having much upside from this. They're going to have a new stadium in 2010 (and Midway Stadium right now is better than the Deflato-Dome for baseball!) and in all probability, an awful team to open it.

And we don't need to give up three or four people for Santana. He's good, but he's not that good.

by MN exile on Nov 28, 2007 12:17 PM CST 0 recs

I have no idea why you think the Twins might...

...have a grin [sic] outlook the next few years. Mauer, Morenau, & Cuddyer are clearly the centerpieces of that team. In other words, an all-world catcher (probably soon-to-be 3B) an MVP, and a stud outfielder. Don't forget Liriano comes back next year. And their pitching looks to be a HELLVA lot better than ours in the upcoming years - Garza, Baker, Bonser, and Crain, to name a few. I've lived in Minny for the last decade and admire that they run their farm system how I wish the Cubs ran theirs. This is going to be a good team when the stadium opens up in a few years.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Nov 28, 2007 1:16 PM CST up 0 recs

Two words

Tigers
Indians

by IllinoisCubs on Nov 28, 2007 2:59 PM CST up 0 recs

Phew.... for a minute there,

I thought you were going to say...

White.
Sox.

;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 28, 2007 4:59 PM CST up 0 recs

The key to the whole idea

to me is the fact that we'd be giving up a ton of guys for one guaranteed year of Santana. That's it. If we could be assured that he'd resign with the Cubs for two or three more years, that he'd be healthy, and that he'd be the same pitcher he was in '05 and '06, then I'd make the trade.

However, because such certainty is impossible, no. That's too much to give up for a one year rental.

by HectorVillanueva on Nov 28, 2007 12:21 PM CST 0 recs

100% agreed.

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2007 12:49 PM CST up 0 recs

Hill, Marmol, Pie, and Prior...

So that's at least 10 years combined of guarnteed control and maybe $40 million on the salary for one guy who wants $20-$25 million a year... Yeah, I'm going to pass on that. Fun game though!

by IllinoisCubs on Nov 28, 2007 12:26 PM CST 0 recs

Only way you make the trade is Santana is extended

Cubs have made two big trades with teams with up and coming Free Agents, Ramirez & Lee.

Santana's perceived price: CF'er and real deal MLB ready player (Cabrera & Hughes?) plus another?

But Santana is a one year player who could do a Randy Johnson and retool a team. So with ESPN's thoughts let us break this down.

Trading Hill, Pie, Marmol, and Prior, Cubs pay Mark's arbitration offering of 20% less.

Pie the more I think about Pie he might be fool's gold and someone who either is messed up mechanically and needs time to develop. This might not be available in chicago. Marmol with a devastating slider/curve could also be fool's gold as a potential closer. Hill, unless he picks up a genuine out pitch straight change is going to be a journeyman SP in the major leagues but not a true top of the order pitcher. Trading Hill slots Marshall who is younger and possibly can learn that straight change. Prior is going to go FA when he is ready and could be another Mark the Bird.

As a CF'er to replace Pie the Cubs have a pair or trio of prospects in Fuld, Patterson and Colvin being their best athlete to replace the touted Pie. If this takes place Cubs could sign suspended Cameron and have Patterson and Fuld compete for the first two months until he is ready.

The situation then is would Santana change the team into a genuine WS contender, well not by himself where the Cubs still need a RF'er (Fukudome) but a starting rotation of Santana-Z-Lilly-Marshall-(Marquis or Dempster or Gallagher) would be the best in the NL. A bullpen without Marmol but with Wood-Howry-Eyre-Wuertz-Hart-would be good if they remained healthy.

Ironically the Twins could end up with both Prior and Mauer,the two celebrated concensus number one draft picks of 02. but I think Prior will never be the same, so then would the loss of Hill be harmful? Not if Marshall replaces him with similar performance. Would Marmol be harmful, I actually think he is a Dotel like and not a super star, and would Pie be harmful. Maybe but then maybe Patterson or Colvin would be better. Patterson is a better hitter. Colvin might be a better athlete and hitter also. the thing is Pie seems to have a lot work in front of him but then again things could click and his athleticsm could emerge. The question than is would the Cubs do a Z type deal for Santana?

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Nov 28, 2007 1:17 PM CST 0 recs

The Twins need a 3rd baseman

Don't rule out DeRosa involved in a deal. The Phillies wanted him last year for 3rd and the Cubs signed him as a backup plan for 3rd if ARam would have walked.
Hill, Pie, DeRosa and a minor leaguer or 2 is a very good offer.

by cubswin on Nov 28, 2007 5:55 PM CST up 0 recs

The Twins have a 3B...

...and his name is Joe Mauer in about 4-5 years.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Nov 28, 2007 7:43 PM CST up 0 recs

What if

The Cubs were able to trade Prior to the Padres for one of their 3B (Kouzmanoff, Headley or Antonelli) and then send him, Pie and Rich Hill to the Twins for Santana.

I'd hope that would at least get you in the discussion for one year of Santana.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -- Mark Twain

by circuitclout on Nov 28, 2007 9:13 PM CST up 0 recs

If we're going to fantasize like that...

...we might as well talk about Prior for Santana, with the Twins eating salary. Mark Prior doesn't have that kind of trade value.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 28, 2007 11:10 PM CST up 0 recs

one things for sure...

the twins are brilliant. this is the best thing that can happen to them. they have baseball's biggest teams bidding against each other to unload their farm system for 1 player. they cant lose in the trade. if they make the trade with they yanks they could get a major league cf in cabrera, a superstar 2b in cano and a major league pitcher in chamberlain or hughes. if they trade with the red sox they can get a pedrioa,ellsbury, papelbon or a package of 2 or 3. hell then they can trade nathan for a similar package of players. add a couple low cost fill'ins here or there. maybe even make a trade for a dempster type closer. if liriano comes back and pitches well and the twinkies get a lil luck on their side and their competing for a world series next year w/o tying all their money up in 1 or 2 players.

GO CUBS GO!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Nov 28, 2007 1:47 PM CST 0 recs

Except...

... the Yankees don't really want to give up Chamberlain. And the Red Sox don't really want to give up Ellsbury.

Yes, that'd be what it would take, which is why Santana is likely to stay put until the trading deadline, when a desperate team will pony up even more than that.

Or maybe the Twins will somehow find themselves in contention again and they won't deal him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2007 5:23 PM CST up 0 recs

dont matter

what they wanna give up. whats important to those two team is that santana dont end up on the other. thats why i say the twinkies are brilliant. the lobger this goes on the more desperate the other will get.

GO CUBS GO!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Nov 28, 2007 7:40 PM CST up 0 recs

Well, exactly.

If the Yankees or Red Sox don't want to give up big names now, the Twins should just wait. They're likely to get one of those names in July.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2007 9:13 AM CST up 0 recs

MLBTR Wrote

"Cubs: Long shot and first I've heard of it, but George King and Joel Sherman suggest the possibility. Felix Pie would have to be involved. Hard to see the Cubs signing Santana to a record-setting extension given their ownership situation."

Surprisingly, this was the second domino! OK, I'll let it go... ;-)

by initram on Nov 28, 2007 4:46 PM CST 0 recs