Cubs contacted Tampa about Crawford...
Per ESPN1000 and a poster on northsidebaseball.
http://www.northsidebaseball.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45214
Tampa needs pitching, but I'm guessing that Hendry won't part with either Hill or Marmol. The Cubs would have to eat a ton of Marquis' salary to get him there.. Marshall's expendable though and maybe they'd take Gallagher and/or Veal???
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51 comments
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Not gonna happen but
by Kinky Reggae on Nov 5, 2007 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is a good player
by MPH73 on Nov 5, 2007 12:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
"Slump proof?"
The Cubs need more power and I think Crawford can be a 20 home run guy...
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get caught up
I'm no major stat head, but one thing that is crystal clear - the teams with the highest team OBP score the most runs over 162 games. It's high time the Cubs caught on to this, instead of doing the same thing over and over again.
Power would be nice, but not at the expense of adding more OBP, especially with a leadoff man who strikes out 160 times and has a mediocre OBP.
by MPH73 on Nov 5, 2007 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
High scoring teams like
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They had that in 04
They need to become more versatile and not just rely on hitting the ball out of the yard. Also, you already have 3 players who are legit 30+ homer guys, and that should be enouph power if you have the other ingrediants.
by MPH73 on Nov 5, 2007 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They won more games in 2004
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe and yes
He WOULD be an upgrade over what we had last year offensively, but that certainly isn't saying much. And it's not a question of simply upgrading over last year - it's a question of doing so without gutting the team to do it.
by SouthernCub on Nov 5, 2007 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But...
And don't say, "Well, he could play CF because he's fast." Tampa Bay could have done that in 2005 when Rocco Baldelli went down. Nope, they played some mope named Damon Hollins in CF most of the year.
Incidentally, Jacque Jones, once installed in CF on June 30, hit .328/.370/.460. Note, I am NOT saying Jones is better than Crawford, because he isn't, but Jones did a credible job for half a season.
That said, the Cubs' CF next year will very likely be Felix Pie, unless he plays his way out of the job.
by Al on Nov 5, 2007 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they'll move Soriano to RF?
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see that happening.
by Al on Nov 5, 2007 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hope so..
Are the Giants interested in Fukudome? I have a feeling they're going to spend like fiends this offseason..
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me put it this way
So if you want Crawford, you'll probably have to at least approach the same value as Tim Lincecum. So none of this "Jason Marquis plus minor league flotsam" stuff. Forget Sean Marshall too.
Gallagher AND Veal would be in the ballpark, depending on how the Rays evaluate Gallagher and Veal. (Not everyone likes them, you know.) Hill and a lesser prospect could do it.
But Crawford is a left fielder. Last I checked, we've got one of those signed for the next seven years. I don't have any clue as to why we'd give up anything of value to acquire a left fielder.
by Josh77 on Nov 5, 2007 12:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If Lincecum is available....
by BeerCub on Nov 5, 2007 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's available for a "stud" outfielder
We don't really have anyone in our system that fits that bill.
by Wreckard on Nov 5, 2007 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My only concern
I generally agree with you though. Lincecum is an ace.
by Josh77 on Nov 5, 2007 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford can play RF...
by SouthernCub on Nov 5, 2007 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That said...
by SouthernCub on Nov 5, 2007 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's play some CF...
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He has played some CF
by Josh77 on Nov 5, 2007 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Poorly?
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Marquis and a minor leaguer
by NO100 on Nov 5, 2007 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why does everyone think that the D-Rays need SP?
A. Sonnanstine
J. Hammel
J. Howell
E. Jackson
Then in Triple-A you have a high prospect in Jeff Niemann and a surprise prospect in Jae Kuk Ryu.
Even after those guys you have three guys with No. 1/No. 2 starter stuff. Some scouts rank these three guys in the top ten of ALL prospects in the MlB:
Jacob McGee
Wade Davis
David Price
So that's a possible 2009 rotation of:
- Scott Kazmir
- James Shields
- Wade Davis
- Jacob McGee
- David Price
In a nutshell, they have multiple guys who are Sean Marshall and Sean Gallagher so none of our pitching prospects are enticing. Also, Donald Veal is not an upcoming prospect anymore. Take a look at his numbers. At this point, I hope he can just be a decent LOOGY one of these days.
by IllinoisCubs on Nov 5, 2007 1:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't surprise me if Tampa Bay asked for
by rlpete on Nov 5, 2007 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They're not high on Dioner Navarro
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im surprised
by Hammer on Nov 5, 2007 2:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The obp fanatics would poo poo that..
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford...
Now, I know part of that is team-dependent. But I'm just not as excited about Crawford as you are, especially since he doesn't have a position with the Cubs because they already have someone (Soriano) who plays the only position he plays competently.
Further, Tampa Bay is notoriously difficult to deal with. They could probably have dealt Crawford on several occasions over the last two years, but didn't.
by Al on Nov 5, 2007 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, they are notorious...
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
AAACK!
Most likely, because he can't play center field on an everyday basis.
by Al on Nov 5, 2007 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In 2005
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gaithright played 70 games in CF in 2005...
by SouthernCub on Nov 5, 2007 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's some faulty logic, Al...
by SouthernCub on Nov 5, 2007 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No...
The manager of that team was Lou Piniella. I think he knows pretty well what Carl Crawford can and can't do, and he doesn't fill any real need that the Cubs have.
by Al on Nov 5, 2007 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So why are the Cubs inquiring about Crawford?
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This whole diary...
The NSBB link you posted quotes an ESPN 1000 report, with no other corroborating info. The source I have, who gave me the Fukudome/Kuroda info -- and some other stuff that I cannot pass along at this time but may be able to later -- said nothing about Crawford.
I'm not sure the Cubs HAVE inquired, that's my point, and I don't think they need to or should, either.
by Al on Nov 5, 2007 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Al......?
AL, what does this mean? If you cant tell us anything about your source how do we assume any of it is true or if it is your opinion. Who does this source work for? Why would they be getting information? Why would they be telling you thing that you can and CANNOT pass along to people at your site at any given time?
Im confused. Are you a source to leak rumors? Thats what I get when I hear that you "cannot pass along at this time"
Can you prove any validity to this?
by Hammer on Nov 6, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh.
And no, no one's leaking anything through me. I got told a few things and told that I could use the stuff I've posted. That's all it is. Nothing sinister at work here.
If I can pass along more stuff, I will.
by Al on Nov 6, 2007 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
by Hammer on Nov 6, 2007 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the key question to debate...
As I said in another post, these posts about "hearing on ESPN1000..." are a dime a dozen. Quite often they are just completely fabricated, or the poster just misheard what was actually said (converting what some radio personality thinks the Cubs SHOULD do into what the Cubs have actually tried to do).
I don't think there's much legs to the idea of getting Crawford here, mainly because I think he'll command too much in return. But either the Cubs think he has a position here or the rumor is false.
by SouthernCub on Nov 5, 2007 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't be the first time someone misjudged...
Regardless of why Crawford wasn't moved, the reason it's faulty logic is because Crawford's past performance suggests he can do it and his athleticism suggests he can do it. Just because the organization (including Piniella - he's not infallible) might not have THOUGHT he could do it doesn't mean he couldn't do it.
And REGARDLESS, you continue to overlook the fact that he has played RF in the minors. He could very well be envisioned as an option there as well (if Fukudome goes elsewhere).
Or, it could all be moot if the original rumor is false.
by SouthernCub on Nov 5, 2007 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Going to quickly wade in here...
BIS's Zone Ratings for Crawford are available here. They're (in my opinion) more reliable than the STATS, Inc. ones, and at any rate, they're at least broken out much more clearly, so we can do better analysis of them.
Crawford's RZR in CF:
.877, 2004
1.000, 2005
.677, 2006
So, what do those numbers tell us?
Almost absolutely nothing. You can't aggregate Zone Rating between seasons, because Zone Rating isn't a rate stat, it's adjusted to league norms and thus isn't consistent year to year. And none of those years approach a sample size large enough for those Zone Ratings to tell us anything particularly meaningful. 65 balls in zone for '04, 17 in '05, 3 in '06. You need at least 100 balls in zone before you can be confident that your Zone Rating is much more than just noise.
And straight zone rating without at least mentioning the positional norms and the run value of an out at each position isn't exactly reliable anyways. You need to put the numbers in a context where they have meaning.
To be clear: I'm not convinced that Al's right here. Tango's work on the defensive spectrum tells me that a guy like Crawford could probably be an average-to-good defender in center, given his ZR in left field (an actual good sample size), unless there's a specific tool that Crawford is deficient in.
But he's not a baseball robot, either, and you'd have to see how a prospective move to center would affect him, and how capable he is of learning a new position in-season, before you could have any confidence in that.
I just don't want to see Zone Rating abused - it's the best readily-available defensive metric we have, and getting it to replace Fielding Percentage in the standard discussion of defense is as important as getting OBP into the idiom of the average baseball fan was.
by cwyers on Nov 5, 2007 7:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with ya Al
Like I said before, I like Crawford, but sticking him in the 2 hole would be another case of square peg in a round hole the Cubs have had with their lineup for several years.
by MPH73 on Nov 5, 2007 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I think his power number will go up as he hits his prime and batting in front of Lee and ARam should help him..
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Odd lineup and I may say
by Hammer on Nov 5, 2007 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They need a 5 hitter and DeRo's
by CubFaninCA on Nov 5, 2007 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't have a position?
I DO agree that he's probably not worth the cost it will take in terms of trade fodder. But I don't think it's at all accurate to say that he wouldn't have a position on the Cubs.
by SouthernCub on Nov 5, 2007 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no
by number1cubfan on Nov 5, 2007 7:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Like I said above
by Kinky Reggae on Nov 6, 2007 8:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

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