Some questions about infield moves

by zambranofan on Nov 7, 2007 10:47 PM CST

Again, I am not advocating any moves, just trying to understand the news and rumors I'm reading.

If the Angels sign Alex Rodriguez, will they be motivated to deal Orlando Cabrera, or do they have lots of slack to sign ARod?

With the Cubs rumored to be interested in Kaz Matsui, is it possible they think Matsui could play shortstop on a regular basis? He has been somewhat better against righties in his career.

Why isn't anyone talking about Alexei Ramirez? If he gets clearance to enter the US, and is a free agent, is he major-league ready? Info at http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=597

Is Tony Giarratano better than Ronny Cedeno or Ryan Theriot? Is there any shortstop who spent all of 2007 in AAA that is?

Are the Rangers open to dealing Michael Young in their rebuilding mode? Should we care?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Young

I brought up that we should have tried to get him at the trade deadline. I would easily trade murton and marshall if not more for him. Get this guy

by Kchance on Nov 7, 2007 11:36 PM CST 0 recs

I've never once heard Young's name in...

...trade rumors. But his contract is sizable and the Rangers may want to unload it, I would suppose.

He'd be a minor downgrade defensively from Theriot, and a major upgrade offensively. I don't see how it would hurt to ask, but I wouldn't expect much to come of it.

As far as Kaz Matsui goes... depending on what the market for him is (and the Padres have dropped out, leaving us and the Rockies, it seems) it could be an interesting pickup after the fashion of Jim Hendry's best moves. Matsui was a shortstop his first year in the majors who was moved off the position by this guy named Jose Reyes, and then moved off the position after the trade to Colorado by this guy named Troy Tulowitzki.

Certainly Matsui's been a plus defender at second base; he doesn't have a very strong arm but it's supposed to be pretty accurate. I think defensively he could compete very well with Theriot; even after adjusting for park effects he still outhit Theriot, although I'm not sure if that's a "resurgance," a one year fluke, or what.

If Kuroda decides to stay away from Chicago and its cold weather (although I lived in Japan for a year and it's not like they don't have winter), he could make a nice "travelling buddy" for Fukudome, and might actually be a credible upgrade at shortstop. That may say more about Ryan Theriot than it does Matsui, and I don't want to rehash those arguements.

I don't see why the Angles would ever trade Orlando Cabrerra.

As far as Alexai Ramirez... I want to believe, but I just can't. Cuba's baseball league can be charitably described as being around High A or maybe AA if you've given up on charity and gone straight to disaster relief efforts. It's possible that he could adapt to MLB in a season in that it's possible that anyone in the low minors could do that; I wouldn't advise it, Josh Hamilton aside.

He's probably actually best viewed as a Josh Hamiliton-type pickup; a low-risk, high-upside gamble if you're a team that's not going anywhere this season and looking to develop for the future. I hope that's not the Cubs next year.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 8, 2007 12:32 AM CST 0 recs

Michael Young...

... I worry about acquiring a guy like that who commands fairly big bux, is now 31 years old, and whose SLG has dropped from .513 to .459 to .418 the last three years. He hit only nine HR in 2007, tying a career low, as pointed out below, in a hitter-friendly park.

I'm leery of him. He seems primed for a big fall.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 8, 2007 2:40 AM CST up 0 recs

Disagree on Matsui

Kaz was brought over as a SS (and the Mets moved Reyes to 2B), but he was atrocious defensively. Simply put, Japanese IFers are required to get in front of every ball and field it with two hands, then step and throw. This greatly reduces their range, as the Mets so distressingly found out. Matsui cannot backhand a ball, let alone backhand a ball while planting his right foot to quicken his release. Hence, he has zero coverage in the hole. Kaz will make DeRo look like a Gold Glove SS. Kaz doesn't have DeRo's arm strenght or ability to throw from any arm angle, either. He is a good 2B, but please don't even dream of him at SS -- it's painful to watch.

Whether he is better than Riot offensively is debatable (how much did Coors help him?), but he is a switch-hitter, and is faster than Riot.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 8, 2007 12:57 PM CST up 0 recs

Not much debate there really

Whether he is better than Riot offensively is debatable (how much did Coors help him?), but he is a switch-hitter, and is faster than Riot.

Matsui 2007 EQA: .267 OPS .747
Theriot 2007 EQA: .247 OPS .666

Significant difference there.

by Wreckard on Nov 8, 2007 4:10 PM CST up 0 recs

Wood will become the Angels SS

after 2008 when Cabrera leaves via free agency. A~Rod will play 3b... Figgins will be the one available. Not Cabrera or Wood.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Nov 8, 2007 3:17 AM CST up 0 recs

erick aybar

where does he play? he cant cost a ton, go get him.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Nov 8, 2007 7:24 AM CST up 0 recs

You might be right

but I would at least inquire, since they moved Wood off SS, have other SS prospects, and don't seem totally enamored with him right now. I think the Angels will keep their super-sub and be willing to move Wood. Problem is that if they did want to trade him, Wood is one of those big-name prospects who when coupled with an Ervin Santana and a Kendry Morales could equal an Erik Bedard.

by DGU on Nov 8, 2007 7:30 AM CST up 0 recs

The infield is pretty much set

Lee will be at first, DeRosa at second, Ramirez at third, and most likely Ryan Theriot at short.

Jim Hendry said last week that he feels Theriot is a everyday shortstop, and just ran out of gas the last three weeks of the season.(was hitting 281, 341 OBP 25 SB on September 8)

The only thing the Cubs might do is add another quality back up infielder. Just incase Theriot does struggle next season.

I think the Cubs will upgrade alot in right, and either keep Jones for center, or add another stopgap guy incase Pie struggles to make the team. Other then that I think the Cubs will work on upgrading the starting pitching.

by cubsfan25 on Nov 8, 2007 1:45 AM CST 0 recs

DeRosa

I imagine that what plays out with Fukodome may impact the IF moves. If the Cubs don't go outside the organization for a RF, then perhaps DeRosa might see more time in RF.

I would imagine that Hendry will use DeRosa's flexibility to his advantage. Though that being said, there really isn't much in terms of middle infield help out there.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Nov 8, 2007 8:25 AM CST 0 recs

I still don't get DeRosa in RF...

he's got less power than Murton, plays as bad defensively as Murton in RF. If Murton is not an option in RF, there's no way DeRosa is.

Sure, DeRosa has value in that he can play RF in a pinch. That doesn't mean he should be regularly doing it. He's above average for a middle infielder. He's below average for a corner OF.

More importantly, what does moving DeRosa to the OF buy you? It just means we have to play yet ANOTHER middle infielder. It makes more sense to have DeRosa's bat as a middle IF and find an OF with more OPS ability than your typical middle IF.

by SouthernCub on Nov 8, 2007 9:59 AM CST up 0 recs

DeRo in RF

I disagree with you about DeRo's defensive ability in RF (according to the Fielding Bible, he was the 7th best RF in MLB in 2006 with a +12, even though he only played 70 games there), but I agree that putting him there (Kaz at 2B) greatly weakens the offense, especially in the power department. I agree that DeRo's main value is that he is an average defensive and above average offensive MI. He doesn't have a COF bat.

However, Lou seems to be in love with speed -- even the low OBP kind. (Why? What good is speed if a guy can't steal 1B?) Even if Lou determined that Riot and DeRo were equal defensive SSs, he would play Riot based on speed, despite the more than hundred point difference in OPS. DeRo isn't a base-stealer. Could Hendry's statements about being able to play DeRo anywhere be a smokescreen for a potential trade? There are several teams looking for 2Bs and 3Bs. If the Cubs sign Kaz, DeRo might be gone. Hendry might just be covering while he courts Kaz.

DeRo's $4.75M + JJ's $5M could equal Fukudome in Hendry's mind (and budget).

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 8, 2007 1:11 PM CST up 0 recs

Taking deconstructionism to the next level...

Or Hendry's interest in Matsui is a smokescreen so that neither Fukudome nor Kuroda think that the Cubs have to have them to have the requisite pair of Japanese players.

Also, is "Lou in love with speed" a definite that the Cubs are willing to take a step back on OBP/SLG for speed, or is Hendry just supposed to find a Tom Goodwin type bench player?

by DGU on Nov 8, 2007 1:25 PM CST up 0 recs

Matsui

"Also, is "Lou in love with speed" a definite that the Cubs are willing to take a step back on OBP/SLG for speed, or is Hendry just supposed to find a Tom Goodwin type bench player?"

Well the Cubs have a OBP/SLG guy off the bench already in Daryle Ward. They could use a Tom Goodwin/ Kazuo Matsui type who can start a few games per week, and play off the bench with great speed.

Matsui was 32 of 36 in SB this year, and did that in 104 games. Thats a vaule piece to have off the bench that could win us alot of one run games.

by cubsfan25 on Nov 8, 2007 1:38 PM CST 0 recs

I guess my question is -

Are the Cubs going to play a .325/.400 OBP/SLG speedster regularly over a .365/.425 hitter in the everyday lineup? I don't think anyone is opposed to replacing Fontenot on the bench with a speedier infielder like Matsui if the price is right. I would be opposed to cutting significantly into DeRosa's playing time for someone who will make the play close at first when he GIDPs.

by DGU on Nov 8, 2007 2:46 PM CST up 0 recs

I agree DeRosa needs to play everyday

If the Cubs sign Matsui I want him to play mostly short, or play some second if we need DeRosa at third/first or in the outfield.(or day off)

I hope we don't overpay for Matsui though, I heard the Rockies were offering 2y at 6m, I wouldn't want the Cubs to go much higher then that.(even thats a little high)

by cubsfan25 on Nov 8, 2007 4:17 PM CST 0 recs

DeRo

I agree that he is an everyday player. I wouldn't mind DeRo at SS and Kaz at 2B, but I would need about 10 prescriptions of Prilosec a week if Kaz plays SS. I can't see signing anyone for 2/$6M as a bench player (Ward only makes $1.2M), so if Kaz signs, he plays every day. DeRo plays SS, RF (hope not, we need more power there), or gets traded.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 8, 2007 7:30 PM CST up 0 recs

Pure speculation between the lines

What if the Cubs have talked deals with some teams, and there's a lot of interest in DeRosa?

What if signing Matsui allows you to trade DeRosa for a good return and helps you sign Fukudome?

Geo! (clap-clap-clap) Soto! (clap-clap-clap)

by zambranofan on Nov 8, 2007 4:30 PM CST 0 recs

That's possible

Reportedly, there were 12 teams trying to sign him last year as a FA, and many of those teams still have needs at 2B or 3B (Yanks, Mets, Phils, Giants, 'Stros). He has also essentially repeated his "fluke" 2006 performance, so may be even more valuable.

Since he doesn't have great speed or great power, he may not fit into Lou's plans. (Remember, Lou talks about "speed", not "OBP".)

What do the Cubs need that DeRo would bring? Would that be worth more than DeRo's contribution to the Cubs next year?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 8, 2007 7:36 PM CST up 0 recs

If you're trading DeRosa...

...signing Matsui to play 2B makes no sense, when you have a likely superior player in Eric Patterson. A Fontenot/Theriot 2B platoon is probably superior to Matsui as well.

Above we saw Theriot's and Matsui's EQA's side by side - check their OPS+ which is adjusted for park effect:

Matsui: 87
Fontenot: 87
Theriot: 72

Matsui only makes sense if you believe Japanese players have to come in pairs.

So, I agree trading DeRosa may not be a bad idea - but only if you are doing so because we already have 3 other in-house 2B options.

by DGU on Nov 8, 2007 8:41 PM CST up 0 recs

Quick note...

...those numbers really don't show what you think -- that's still a healty difference. Mostly because, hey, the park factors that B-R.com uses don't show a significant difference between Wrigley and Coors on offense.

I'll expand upon this point in a few minutes.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 8, 2007 10:37 PM CST up 0 recs

Patterson cannot play second

His defense is not adequate. If he has any trade value, it is probably as a fifth outfielder with the flexibility to play second in a pinch. Matsui is an excellent second baseman.

However, I would rather the Cubs keep DeRosa. I was just trying to figure out why Hendry would have any interest in Matsui.

Geo! (clap-clap-clap) Soto! (clap-clap-clap)

by zambranofan on Nov 9, 2007 8:08 AM CST up 0 recs

DeRosa is to important to the Cubs

I don't see how the Cubs to trade DeRosa unless they get alot in return. Matsui is a downgrade offensivly over DeRosa, and can't play nearly as many postions as DeRosa can.

DeRosa is a important piece to the Cubs, and had a 370s OBP last year, the Cubs can't lose him.

by cubsfan25 on Nov 8, 2007 5:54 PM CST 0 recs

I think Eric Patterson is traded before DeRosa

"Since he doesn't have great speed or great power, he may not fit into Lou's plans. (Remember, Lou talks about "speed", not "OBP".)

What do the Cubs need that DeRo would bring? Would that be worth more than DeRo's contribution to the Cubs next year?"

Lou did talk about OBP, especially for a hitter in rightfield. He also said he wants more speed though. Jim Hendry said the he wants to add more speed either to the everyday line-up or the bench. Thats were Matsui comes in.

I agree that I would rather go with Patterson then Matsui, but the problem is we need someone who can play some shortstop. Thats something that Fontenot, Patterson and DeRosa don't do. Thats the only reason I have any interest in Matsui. I guess he was bad defensivly with the Mets at short, but maybe it was just a fluke year, because he was a everyday shortstop in Japan his whole career. We need a quality back-up/platoon guy to play with Theriot at short. I have no interest at all in Matsui being the everyday second baseman next year.

The Cubs can't trade DeRosa, he is WAY to important to the Cubs, and they don't have anyone would could come close to replacing his production. He was probably the Cubs MVP last year, and could be again next year.

by cubsfan25 on Nov 9, 2007 12:23 AM CST 0 recs

Is Matsui a bad defensive SS?

His Rate was 105 which is above average. I know that defensive stats are controversial. Does anyone have a preferred stat that backs up the anecdotal evidence others have posted on the site?

by DGU on Nov 9, 2007 11:40 AM CST 0 recs