Astros Land Tejada... Roberts Green Light?

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 12:12 PM CST Comment 90 comments

"This comes as a surprise, on the heels of a Rosenthal report to the contrary. Jeff Zrebiec says the Astros have acquired Miguel Tejada for Luke Scott, Matt Albers, Troy Patton, Dennis Sarfate, and Mike Costanzo."

Source: MLBTR, ESPN: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3151849

Does this green light us to now acquire Roberts? If there's any speculation, we may as well just wait until after tomorrow.

Go get him, Hendry!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I cant believe

that's all it cost for Tejada...

i know he's in decline... but man.. that's it???

Troy Patton is the best prospect in the group and he's not THAT great

and them getting Luke Scott makes Murton less valuable... which is really disappointing since both the Stros and the Cubs were severely undervaluing those two players bats

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 11:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

yeah i'm replying to myself...

should also note that the timing of this is ominous to me

the day we find out about a press conference on the Mitchell Report, Miggy Tejada gets moved in what looks to be a below value deal

interesting...

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting...

...indeed.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm

This is who I think the Cubs #1 should be...

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who was it that said something

about Miggy and 'roids? Was it Grimsley?

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 12, 2007 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Palmiero

I think - I recall him initially saying he borrowed a "syringe" of b vitamins.

by N Oakley on Dec 12, 2007 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Correct

When Palmeiro was caught and going down, he appeared to be grabbing for anyone else he could take with him.

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean

In much the same way that Roberts may similarly be dealt in a "below-market" deal? And yes, Roberts was fingered by none other than Jason Grimsley several months ago. Another hmmmmm?

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Dec 12, 2007 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Take a look at his...

...Isolated power and secondary average for 2006, 2007, and his age...I am not implying HGH or steroids from these changes but that his power is dropping and he's on the wrong side of 30 and making big jack...Maybe the minute maid park will help boost his power again. I would like to think there were no overhwleming offers because his pop is slipping, he's getting older, and he ties up a lot of salary.

by DudeVf11 on Dec 12, 2007 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

all true

not a bad gamble for 2 yrs/26 million though

and as i've said before in 2 years he could very well bring back compensatory pick or two

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't really surprise me

Supply and Demand.

I don't think there was much of a market for him especially as a shortstop. The only other place might have been Anaheim to play 3rd but maybe they are going with Wood there. I don't think the Dodgers were interested as they seem to want pitching and seem leery of moving their top prospects anyway.

He also only played 133 games last year. I think he is going to age very quickly.

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also confirmed...

...by the Baltimore Sun.

by Ayralin on Dec 12, 2007 11:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

If I was guessing, I'd say wait for Bedard

The move that would make the most sense would be for Baltimore to trade Bedard before moving Roberts. After that move, they should have a better idea of what they're still looking for.

But you're right, this probably does hurt Murton's value, at least to the O's. Patterson or Cedeno, a pitcher or two, or maybe a younger prospect may be the way they'd go now.

by JDay on Dec 12, 2007 12:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

There were actually...

a number of reports out of the winter meetings that the Orioles have no interest in Murton to start with. I don't get it, but that's how the story goes.

Got a chance to see a few more than a few Orioles games last year. They've got many issues. Luke Scott may help a bit. However, I suspect they'll be looking for pre-arb position players, and power arms. If I had to hazard a guess, I would expect to see Colvin, Gallagher, and the like come up often.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 12, 2007 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've been saying that too

Tejada was not a big trading chip. If anything this trade was just a dump to get rid of him. Teams knew that the O's really wanted to move him.

On the other hand, the biggest chips the O's have are Roberts and especially Bedard. Those are the guys that they will want to flip into good prospects for the future. Maybe Murton might have helped as a small part of the Roberts deal but Bedard is going to require top prospects. Murton doesn't qualify in that trade except as a throw-in.

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Murton

Murton + Marshall would've made a lot of sense for Roberts

the O's would have gotten two MLB ready young players that they can control for years to come

here's two career lines for you:

Age 23 .296/.357/.469
Age 25 .296/.365/.455

one is Nick Markakis and the other is Matt Murton

not really that far off...

and Markakis is considered one of their elite building chips

to suggest Murton wouldn't be a potential valuable commodity to them (before the acquisition of Luke Scott) seems silly

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Geez man..

We're just messengers. Like I said, I don't get it, but if that's what their front office thinks, so be it.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 12, 2007 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't believe

you are comparing Murton to Markakis. Markakis has more speed, power, and better D. I have said this before and I will say it again, STOP COMPARING MURTON'S NUMBERS TO FULL TIME PLAYERS. Murton is mostly used when there is an advantage for him. His numbers would go down on a full time basis. One other number I would like to look at is career AB/RBI's. How is Murton in that one compared to Markakis.

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Dec 12, 2007 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just looked it up

Murton's AB/RBI - 8.47

Markakis - 6.48

That seems like a big difference to me.

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Dec 12, 2007 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Other important things to note:

If Markakis and Murton were both hot dogs, Markakis would taste better. Markakis' sister is probably more attractive than Murton's, assuming both of them have sisters 18 and up. Markakis could probably do a better job wrestling a bear. Markakis is probably the better seam-stitcher; Murton is probably better at sewing buttons. What does all of this mean, you ask? About as much as RBIs, the stupid of baseball stats.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well said

n/t

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

RBI's???

RBI's????

that's a stat completely based on lineup position and playing time?

So you dont want to compare Markakis and Murton because of playing time concerns (300 more AB's in Markakis Career) but you'll gladly throw out a counting stat for the sake of comparison????

really?

I'm not saying Murton = Markakis

I'm not saying Murton will = Markakis at any point in their careers

i'm simply saying the difference between the two in terms of production to this point in their careers isn't as wide as you'd think

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nonsense

then bat Murton 3 4 or 5 and I'll still bet he can't knock in the runs.

by cubswin on Dec 12, 2007 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

2006

murton was basically a full-time player and his numbers would have been BETTER if he were in the lineup 6 days a week instead of 4:

2006 Murton:
.297 .365 .444 455 ab 13 jacks

with regular playing time, you have to expect he'd be better, as a lot of those at bats im sure were pinch hit at bats, and every major leaguer has a worse line as a pinch hitter.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Dec 12, 2007 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All I can say

is that it is very obvious that Murton doesn't fit in the Cubs' plans. Based on that you would think that numerous teams would be approaching the Cubs asking about this potential starting left-fielder. Unless all the offers have been made quietly which is hard to believe with all the media outlets and the various rumors that have been flying around, I think it is strange that there have been zero rumors of teams asking about him.

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nobody is asking about him

because nobody wants him because he is not that good. That is why he is not a full time player. Lou is one of the best skippers in the game. If he thought Murton was as good as some of you people who think he is because of some stats, then he would play him more.

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Dec 12, 2007 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

I didn't put the <sarcasm> quotes around my post. Read above, I don't think he'll bring much in trade.

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and why would he?

no one is saying he's a future all star. that doesnt make him a bad baseball player. he's young and his power is still developing, a career .296 with .365 on base is something most people would be pleased with.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Dec 12, 2007 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I never said

he wasn't a good ballplayer. He'll probably have a reasonable career and last into his 30's. The O's probably would like to have him coming up in their system.

My point though is that he is not the type of player that draws significant interest in these types of deals. The O's will want one or two high upside type prospects. Murton doesn't qualify there. At absolute best, he is an average starting outfielder for a few years. The O's don't care if he is ready to start next year. The fact that the Cubs might be offering him for Bedard and the Mets might offer Gomez or Martinez makes a difference. The fact that Murton is ready now is of minimal concern. He's more an extra part in these types of deals rather than a key piece.

All that said, I did say that he might help get Roberts. I don't think he'll help with Bedard.

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

cool

i agree with everything you said.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Dec 12, 2007 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

unless you're a scout

you cant argue with the statistics, and the statistics say that he is a patient hitter, good obp, good avg., decent power, is young and should get better. the guy was in the league doing well at 23-years-old. how people still contend that he is not a good player is just not smart.

dispute it, please. he has never had a bad year so far in his cubs career, and his number would be better as a full time player seeing that he has never been used in a strict platoon, he has many more at bats vs. righties than lefties.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Dec 12, 2007 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

if you look at the stats he hits great with nobody on base (.330 with 23 of his career 28 homers being solo shots). With runners on or in scoring position he is .250 hitter. That is a big difference. Unless he is a leadoff hitter, which he is not, he is not that good. We can't have those type of numbers if he's going to bat 6th or 7th.

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Dec 12, 2007 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

cant argue

other than the fact that if i were his manager id bat him in the 2 hole everyday, regardless of those stats. with those stats, he's the perfect 2 hole hitter. though it is definitely a knock on the guy.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Dec 12, 2007 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I am glad

we agree on something.

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Dec 12, 2007 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Murton is the best....

....swinging bunt singles hitter I've ever seen.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Dec 12, 2007 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Boy, you'd sure think

there would be a LONG line of teams wanting Murton, if you just go by these selective stats. Maybe the Twins would want this future superstar for Santana. Or maybe Billy Beane would give up Haren for him. The only problem is he really isn't that good of a ballplayer. Some of the analysis of numbers I read here is just plain silly.

by cubswin on Dec 12, 2007 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

WTF??

Other than Murtons def ratings

I'm still waiting for stats (selective or not) that show Murton is an average to above avg OF in some catagories.

I;ve seen he sucks to he's a 5th OF - what stats backup he sucks

RISP- what % of MLB his .250 or worse with RISP- I know its not great but it isnt Nefish either.

Maybe if the Cubs gave him a fulltime shot some Murton haters would pipe down

None of us Murton backers have said he's the 2nd coming of the Babe but writing him off is just plain silly

I'd rather have Murton, than D Roberts, S Finley, J Jones, A Rowand, J Jenkins, et al ie the available NonTender and FA OFers available

by gmsnctry on Dec 12, 2007 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ooops

I'm still waiting for stats (selective or not) that show Murton is NOT an average to above avg OF in some catagories.

by gmsnctry on Dec 12, 2007 8:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In the Tejada article...

...there's a link to this Buster Olney article about the Padres now looking at acquiring Jason Bay from the Pirates to fill the outfield void that they couldn't fill with Fukudome (heh heh heh). Olney mentions Michael Barrett as a possible trade for Bay. If this comes to pass, Big Z's revenge will be complete, as his one time partner finds himself catching for what will once again probably be the last place team in the NL Central.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2007 12:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Last place?

The Pirates played better in the second half last year. They've got good young pitching. I don't see them as a last-place team any more.

The Cardinals are on the decline -- they could have a bottoming-out 90+ loss year in 2008.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 12, 2007 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To be frank...

...the reason it's so hard to handicap next year's last-place NL Central team is that we have 3-4 teams that would be guaranteed last place anywhere else but the NL East.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

True.

Even the Brewers, who seemed on course to win more games than 2007, appear to have regressed.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 12, 2007 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think with a full season of Yovani Gallardo...

...the Brewers can't be taken lightly. Everyone else stinks. With the Reds: I'll believe it when I see it.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

how have the brewers regressed?

they've lost Cordero and that's it right?

They're likely to be healthier next year than they were last year when they lost Bill Hall, Rickie Weeks, and Ben Sheets all for significant periods of time.

They get a full year out of Gallardo and Braun

sure its possible that they regress, but i really dont see a lot of difference between last year and this year for the Brewers

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The reality is SOMEONE on that team...

...will get hurt. That's just baseball. And why not Ben Sheets? I think at this point you have to expect him to be hurt. You're absolutely right -- I don't see them getting meaningfully worse, but neither do I see them getting meaningfully better. We'll have a better idea when we figure out what they're putting in left field.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or at 3B...

... with Braun moving to LF.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 12, 2007 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you're right

i should've been more clear

i meant to say in comparison to the Cubs they had the worse luck of the two regarding the injury front

since the only major player we lost for a significant period of time was Soriano

could that happen again? sure

but i was suggesting if the difference between the teams was 2 games last year and we head into next season with the rosters as is right now i'd imagine the difference wouldn't be significantly increased

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We lost Prior and Wood for...

...most of the season. I know, I know -- but at this point how is it any different with Sheets? And I could be wrong, but I think Weeks was demoted for sucking, more than an in-season injury.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Weeks

had complications with his Wrist which led to his demotion for "sucking"

once he was shut down for a little while he came back like a madman, posting an .824 and .808 OPS in August and September

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=weeksri01

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But the Cardinals

still have Pujols, and like Barry Bonds in SF in his prime, Pujols can lift a team out of the basement all by himself. (Can't win a pennant by himself, but neither could Barry.)

The Cardinals will probably get Carpenter back next year too. How effective he'll be is questionable, but he's got to be an upgrade over the slop they were throwing out last season.

I'd call the Cardinals for 76 wins. That should be enough to keep them ahead of the Pirates, who are challenging for the all-time record for consecutive losing seasons.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Dec 12, 2007 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Giants...

... had other good players besides Bonds when they were making the playoffs in Bonds' good years (Kent, in particular, and some decent pitching). It wasn't all Bonds.

The Cardinals have Pujols, but apart from him, the rest of the roster in 2008 is likely to look like a Triple-A team. The Cubs had some teams like that in Andre Dawson's prime, and Ernie Banks', too, and still finished last.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 12, 2007 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you

The Cards have the chance to be really bad. Their infield after Pujols could be Kennedy, the frequently injured Rolen (unless traded) and Brandan Ryan at SS?

Who's in the OF, Duncan, Ankiel and Edmonds?

Are they still hoping for Mulder to come back for the rotation to go along with Carpenter, Wainwright and Looper?

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cards fans sit up at night...

...praying for Ryan to be their shortstop. The Cards actually signed Cesar the Wonder Out for those duties. Yes, folks: the Wizard of Iz is on his third NL Central team in two seasons. The Cards really need to trade him to the Reds midseason. Then the Reds need to send him on a waiver trade to the Brewers. Then the Astros need to trade for him next offseason.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Forgot about that one

Cardinals are gonna be tough this year.

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

WATCH OUT FOR CARDS

they Former All-Star Cesar Izturis. Hes gonna have a break out year. He will have... umm...

Ahh, who am i kidding?

PIE!!!

by LilLPLancer23 on Dec 12, 2007 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cardinal fans

are going to LOVE his defense.....
He'll be the best defensive shortstop they've ever seen!
They won't believe the plays he makes!
Ozzie who?

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Dec 12, 2007 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

re: The Giants...

Yeah, I guess I was referring to Pittsburgh as a last place team out of habit more than anything else. It seems like Houston plays well enough at home to keep themselves out of the basement. And the Cardinals, well, they always seem to find a way to keep it interesting.

Conversely, the Pirates seem to be just the opposite, always finding ways to lose consistently, even with some decent hitters (Bay, Sanchez) and a couple good pitchers (Gorzelanny [sp?], Snell).

I hope you're right about the Cardinals bottoming out. That would be a joy to watch.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2007 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Baltimore Sun article

This article states that Tejada grew up idolizing Alfredo Griffin.

Is it just me, or is "idol" a really strong word to be association with Griffin?

by JDay on Dec 12, 2007 12:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Seems to fit

Griffin and Soriano are both Dominican, they were both middle infielders, and Alfredo Griffin was probably the second best Dominican player in the league in the early/mid 80's. (Pedro Guerrero)

I'm not surprised that that's who Soriano idolized growing up.

This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

by HectorVillanueva on Dec 12, 2007 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I had a Griffin baseball card

don't remember the year, I think he was with the A's. He had a pretty cool soul-glow fro going on, how could you not idolize that?

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Dec 12, 2007 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Olney article

Matt Morris is only 33? He's been around so long it seems like he should be at least 43. He moves like he's 53.

by JDay on Dec 12, 2007 12:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

i think we should just

get roberts. I believe that if we want bedard to, we would have to give up way more then we feel comfortable giving up.

by Kchance on Dec 12, 2007 12:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Fire Sale in Baltimore.

Everything must go. All items up to 50% off!! I have a hunch that Jimbo is on the horn to "Andy the Clown" (have to give credit to Mike Murphy, but I love the nickname) trying to raid that roster. You're red hot, Jimbo!! Go for it all!

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Dec 12, 2007 12:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand why

some many people think that MacPhail can be fleeced for Bedard or Roberts. There was no indication in his time with the Cubs that he gave away players. The market for Tejada wasn't very good. Bedard will be another story.

I see nothing wrong with this Tejada trade. If anything, what is Houston thinking? Is an aging Tejada going to make them contenders?

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nope

he's not going to make them contenders

but nor are the current group of guys they gave up. None of those guys are great prospects and the only reason they're considered decent is because the Astros system is so bad

Tejada puts fannies in the seats at least and at the end of his 2 years he'll bring draft picks back

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Houston didn't give up much but they seem to be a team without a plan or a farm right now. Bagwell and Biggio are now gone so you would think that they might try and rebuild and get younger. I guess not. Looks like they are just trying to stay afloat without many oars.

Even with the players coming back, I don't think this was a terrible deal for the O's. This was pretty much a salary dump. If Patton can develop to a mid to backend starting pitcher and the other guys at least can contribute somehow they'll probably be happy.

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tejada puts fannies in the seats?

Really? Since when did he have that sort of drawing power? He's been a good player, but never a top-line superstar.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 12, 2007 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well

its always hard to attribute who is responsible for putting fannies in the seats

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/baltatte.shtml

but the O's did see a 300,000 spike in attendance the year the O's acquired Tejada

you see this all the time on this board people complaining that the Cubs arent doing anything in the offseason.

Acquiring someone, anyone, that is a recognizable name pleases the casual fan. Even if its not necessarily in the best interest of the club

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

they finished 3rd that year

as opposed to their traditional 4th place finish. winning sells tickets, not players.

by jacob on Dec 12, 2007 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

7 more games

got them 300,000 more fans...

i'm guessing Tejada's .311/.360/.534 line had something to do with the extra winning too

no matter how you slice it after that acquisition the O's were able to get more fans into their ballpark

i'm guessing the Astros will see a slight bump in attendance as well as they're able to market a lineup filled with some big names: Lee, Berkman, Tejada, along with the rising star in Hunter Pence

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree

with you rlpete, what was Houston thinking? Well, Ed Wade is driving the bus so the answer is, they weren't.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Dec 12, 2007 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

An odd move

This is a win-now move by a team that has no hope of winning now. They'll still win some games next year - there's a lot of power in that lineup, and Tejada should add some homers just by virtue of that park - but their pitching staff is in shambles and they have no depth.

by Wreckard on Dec 12, 2007 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

I don't really understand this move from Houston's point of view. In my opinion they gave up a decent amount for a shortstop who has declined to average at the position.

I Love You Kerry Wood!!!!

by cubbiematt12 on Dec 12, 2007 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Will Tejada play...

at 2nd to take over Biggio's spot or at SS? Either way, he's a decent upgrade, despite his falling numbers from last year. The Astros gave up a bit much I think, but that's how things are done in the majors, I guess.

by Peter the Cubbie on Dec 12, 2007 12:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Tejada Plays Short...

... a guy by the name of Kazuo Matsui (you may have heard of him) will play 2B.

This is who I think the Cubs #1 should be...

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Haha, my bad...

Totally forgot about Kaz going to Houston.

by Peter the Cubbie on Dec 12, 2007 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Most Of Us...

... did, too!

;-)

This is who I think the Cubs #1 should be...

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 10:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cash?

I wonder if any cash is going from Baltimore to Houston in this deal. It would make sense for the Orioles to pick up some of that fat contract.

Tejada is only 31?? Seemed older to me, maybe because he's been around and been good for so long...

"Look, what's important is to be in first place on the last day of the season." -Lou 8/1/07

by 26.2cubfan on Dec 12, 2007 12:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

the o's had said

they were not going to send any cash, i dont know if that turned out to be the case but that was their initial stance.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Dec 12, 2007 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ed Wade

is going to burn down the Juice Box before he gets fired. That's about the only way he could do more damage to the team than he already is.

I didn't read through this thread so I don't know what peoples opinions are but just a quick look at Luke Scott's stats and Tejada's stats show Scott has the edge. Granted he can't play short and is only 2 years younger, but he's also a lot cheaper and would have been under the Astros control for longer than Tejada will. Oh, and they wouldn't have had to send the rest of their farm to Baltimore.

Scott may flame out and Tejada may not be in decline so who knows? I'm not real familiar with the quality of the rest of the prospects save Albers, who isn't a big loss, but it still seems like an awful lot to give up when the player you're getting back was already on your roster. Of course he's not anymore, he'll be in Baltimore.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Dec 12, 2007 2:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

playing different positions

is kind of big deal...

an .800 OPS at SS is much more valuable than a .850 OPS in RF (especially when last yr their starting SS had a .599 OPS)

and the Astros, much like the Cubs with Murton, had banished him to 4th OF/platoon OF mode, so they didnt view him as a piece

there isnt a prospect in the group other than Troy Patton, and he's decent

Ed Wade isn't doing a good job by any means, but that farm system cupboard was BARE and this trade isn't one that is all that bad. (Now stocking up and wasting draft picks on signing FA middle relievers.... thats another story)

and the only young player (other than Scott) that has a chance to be a consistent big league starting player is Troy Patton

in 2 years Tejada will likely bring back draft choices as well...

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2007 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Understood

My point was that from an offensive standpoint Scott is better than Tejada, at least last year. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Scott were better than Tejada for the next two years either. Like I said, maybe he'll flame out and maybe Tejada won't continue what looks like his decline. If so then this will look like a good trade. I just don't think it's going to go that way.

You do make a good point about the production Tejada is replacing at short. He's still a good stick at ss so it's an upgrade there.

What sticks out to me is that the 'Stros need to be selling, not buying guys like Tejada. Maybe it's the Cub in me talking but I can't see any realistic scenario where they make the playoffs next year. Maybe they'll contend but they still aren't good enough to win. Their farm system is a shambles, their pitching staff is a joke, they've still got holes in the offense.... It's time for them to start over but with this trade they've only prolonged their death.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Dec 12, 2007 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They now have the second

best line up in the NL central....behind the Cubs.

On another note, I would much rather Jim goes all out to get Bedard than trying to get Roberts. The Cubs still aren't going to win a playoff series until we get a solid one two punch at the top of the rotation. Do whatever it takes Jim to land Bedard!

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Dec 12, 2007 3:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The Astros?

You must be joking. The Astros have a better lineup than the Brewers? No way.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 12, 2007 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed on the 'stros comment

Not as good as the BrewCrew.

But for the Bedard thing, why not him and Roberts?

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 12, 2007 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yes they do

Looking at their best hitters:

Berkman, Tejada, Pence, Lee
vs
Fielder, Hardy, Hart, Braun

I would take the Astros lineup in a heart beat over the Brewers. Besides Hardy and Jenkins overperformed last year. I think we'll see a decline in their numbers this year.

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Dec 12, 2007 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I hate to break it to you

...but major league lineups have more than 4 players.

by Wreckard on Dec 12, 2007 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

re: yes they do

A bold assertion, but one I can't agree with either. For starters, compare the respective ages of those Houston hitters vs. those of the Brewers' hitters mentioned. Right now, I think the '08 season will be dogfight part deux between the Cubs and Brewers, with the Reds perhaps replacing the Cards as a dark horse.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2007 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

that Hardy overperformed. He tired playing his first full season in a while. He's good.

Anyway, Weeks underperformed and Hall underperformed.

I'm also not sure I'd take any of those 4 Astros head-to-head over those Brewers - maybe I'd take Tejada over Hardy, but certainly not once you've added in defensive value. I'd have to look more closely at Hart v. Pence to decide there, but I know I take Fielder over Berkman and Braun over Lee.

By the way, does anyone feel bad for poor Miguel Tejada who wanted to leave the O's so he could be on a contender, and now he landed on the Astros? Oh well. Free agency calls again in two years.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 12, 2007 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs