Fukudome's Lineup Spot

by thecoolest on Dec 12, 2007 4:29 PM CST Comment 16 comments

Now that the Cub's have officially signed Fukudome, where do you think he will bat? It seems as though he could bat anywhere in the lineup. I wouldn't mind having him bat as the lead-off hitter or in the #2 hole because of his high on-base percentage. But he might have to bat 4th because we need a left-handed bat in between Lee and Ramirez. Where do you think he'll bat?

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As it stands now...

I would bat him second. Ideally the 1 & 2 spots would be good on-base percentage guys. I won't rehash Soriano at leadoff (which I'm fine with). I think having Fukudome on base in front of Lee and Ramirez is more important than splitting up the righty-righty thing.

A good question is where does he bat if the Cubs get Roberts. I would say 5th.

by John916 on Dec 12, 2007 4:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Having perused the other thread...

I'll say my peace here. Fukudome should bat either 2nd or 5th. I see a lot of posts saying he should bat 4th, and there's absolutely no logic to this.

When you get the lefty/righty thing out of your mind, a good lineup is constructed pretty similarly across the board. You have your leadoff guy (Soriano, who I don't think should be there, but don't feel like debating). Your #2 hitter should be a high OBP guy, speed or not. Speed and OBP are always good. Your #3 hitter is, generally, your best all around hitter. Not necessarily the HR, but someone who can hit for average, OBP, and a fair amount of power. Your #4 is, traditionally, your power guy. Your #5 is, again, a guy with some pop, but good teams tend to wedge a better pure hitter in this spot...someone who knows how to hit to all fields, and not just a masher.

With this logic, I fail to see how Fukudome fits well into the #4 hole; he's not purely a power hitter, from what his Japanese stats indicate. And despite being a stellar OBP-type, with a fairly high average, the fact that he's not proven at all makes me think that he'd be a poor initial fit in the #3 hole. We don't know if he'll be our best hitter.

I think, personally, that D-Lee is our best all-around hitter at this point; he's a very smart hitter, keeps his K/BB ratio fairly close (and he does have a decently high K rate), provides decent power, etc. These are unknowns with Fukudome. Ramirez could certainly fit into the #3-role at this point, but anyone else seems a stretch.

If we land no other players at this point, I think Fukudome should hit 5th, if for no other reason than the assumption of being able to protect the #4 hitter (assumed from his AVG./OBP numbers staying high, as the projections are stating). He would do quite well as the #2 hitter (probably his best spot), but would leave the bottom-part of the order extremely unprotected.

I also think that is we do get Roberts, he'll be batting #2 when all is said and done. I just don't see Soriano being moved down, good idea or not.

by NocNoc on Dec 12, 2007 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The lefty/righty thingy

LOL at "when you get the lefty/righty thing out of your mind..." If we got the lefty/righty thing out of our mind, playing Matt Murton in RF and Mark DeRosa at 2B would have been just fine!

Seriously, one of the things you want to do in a lineup is avoid allowing managers to use their lefty specialists against you for multiple batters. Likewise against righty specialists. That's why you want Fukudome batting 3rd or 4th, because if the opposing team brings in a lefty reliever to face Fukudome, he either has to burn that pitcher after one batter or give Lee and Ramirez a huge boost in their odds of creating a run.

I agree that you want your #2 hitter to be a high-OBP and ideally high-contact guy, so Fukudome looks good in that regard, but the Cubs brough him in to be a middle of the order hitter, so that's what he'll be. When you accept that, it seems simple logic to me that you want him hitting 3rd or 4th and not 3rd if Brian Roberts or another lefty is in the 2 hole.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 12, 2007 9:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

I didn't mean to completely discount the idea that it's good to have righty/lefty balance; I think it's very important in a lineup, especially to keep other teams' pitchers from exploiting one side of the plate.

My point is more that, no matter how you break down that difference, putting a high OBP, non-power hitter in the #4-hole isn't the best way to construct a lineup. Especially when your current #3 & #4 hitters are hitters that don't suffer from overly drastic differences in their splits. Yes, both Lee and Ramirez generally have a stronger opportunity against lefties, but they aren't so bad against righties that they necessarily need to be split up.

I guess when it comes down to it, I'm just more of a fan of having a good hitter in a spot. I still think that DeRosa should be our regular #2 hitter, provided we don't get a Roberts-like talent from outside the roster. And it has nothing to do with what side of the plate he hits from; he's a patient, high OBP type of player, period.

Optimally, we'd have a #2 lefty and a #5 lefty, but I don't know that it's absolutely a critical thing.

by NocNoc on Dec 12, 2007 9:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

See the numerous other diaries

that have been discussing roster and lineups.

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 4:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

But I like this diary....so I wont

I think 2 or 4 in the lineup.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Dec 12, 2007 4:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Did you not see this?

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/story/2007/12/12/52731/507

This is who I think the Cubs #1 should be...

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 4:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Apparently they didnt see it. Theres 50 millions

....diaries on this whats 50,000,001

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Dec 12, 2007 4:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He should bat 2nd.

If not, like most other people seem to think, he should bat 5th (or maybe 6th, but that's getting a little too far down in the order, IMO).

Typically, the #2 hitter in the lineup should be a high OBP guy, he should be a good contact hitter, and he should be able to put the ball in play to all fields (especially right field, which is why it would be -in a perfect world- great to have a lefty in that spot). A #2 hitter should typically have some speed and be able to steal a few bases (Note: see Ryne Sandberg). Fukudome should be batted 2nd. If he shows that he'll translate his power numbers to MLB, think about 4th or 5th on a regular basis.

That being said, IMPO, I still think it would be smart move for the Cubs to kick the tires some more on Josh Hamilton. Assuming he performs this year the way he did in his rookie season, there's a possible #4 or #5 hitter against righties. I'm sure that's been debated here, so I won't elaborate any more. "Koh-skay" should bat 2nd, I think.

by Mark H on Dec 12, 2007 5:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed, although...

... I'm leery about Hamilton. I think the Reds would want too much, and he was hurt part of last year.

Where would you play him, anyway?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 12, 2007 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, he comes with some baggage too...

but, assuming he stays clean, his production is phenomenal. Personally, I'd plug him straight into center field. Pie is still extremely young, but I wasn't impressed with what I saw from his bat. His swing and batting eye are very raw, and they still need a lot of work. And, truthfully (although Hendry has said that his stats don't tell the story), his batting stats in Licey show the same as what we saw last year. He just simply needs more time. Fuld might be an option, because we got a glimpse of what he could do defensively last season, and he absolutely killed the pitching in the fall league.

As far as Hamilton goes, from what I remember, he had average/above average range in center (although he'll end up as a corner OF), and he has a good arm for a center fielder.

I also, am afraid of what they'd be asking, but they're hurting for pitching so much that it could be that his price will go down as we get closer to the season. The Reds are trying to make a splash, and they have offense to spare. They need pitching to make that splash, and I think we could get it done without offering anything vital. I have ideas, but, unfortunately, I haven't been hired by Tribune Co. :) If they're asking a dumb amount, forget about it, but they're not going to make the splash they want to make this offseason without getting a couple of more decent starters to go with their offense.

by Mark H on Dec 12, 2007 6:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Question is...

... with or without Roberts, or other speedster.

See other diaries...

This is who I think the Cubs #1 should be...

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 5:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

he should bat 2nd as of now

He needs to bat 2nd as of now to break up Sori, Lee, and ARam. But, considering the Cubs get Brian Roberts, it would be better if it ended up something like this:

Soriano-R
Roberts-S
Lee-R
Ramirez-R
Fukudome-L
DeRosa-R
Soto-R
Pie-L
pitcher

That way there are never more than 2 righties hitting back-to-back, at least not when a righty is pitching. If a lefty is pitching, I would consider sliding Roberts to leadoff and Fuku to 2nd, with Soriano dropping to 4/5 and ARam taking the other spot.

Right now, I really like the looks of this offense, all it needs a more speed, which is exactly where Roberts comes in.

by zam on Dec 12, 2007 7:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Lou has already said

That he would bat him 4th or 5th(depending on the pitcher) so there's no way he bats second.

Teams don't pay guys 12m per year to bat second, the Cubs bruoght him in to drive in runs.

by cubsfan25 on Dec 13, 2007 10:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

OBP

But he would probably have the highest OBP on the team and be able to get on base after Soriano strikes out, and besides, the Cub's have a lot of big bats to drive in runs, they need a player that can consistently get on base and score runs.

by thecoolest on Dec 14, 2007 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that would be

a terrible mistake. you don't sign a guy with a decent average, great OBP, and minimal power (honestly, I only expect 15-20, if that) to bat cleanup, thats where Soriano fits best.

In a perfect world, the 1-5 would be Roberts, Fukudome, Lee, Soriano, Ramirez.

You want a high average guy in 5 spot to clean up for the "cleanup" hitter.

by zam on Dec 14, 2007 9:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs