It Is Official: Mark Prior Is Gone
Is this good news? I am not sure. He may catch on somewhere and become the second coming (he is only 26 after all) but the Cubs made the right move here. We all remember 2003, but that was then and this is now, and the Cubs are headed in a different direction. I did hear today that the Padres took a look at his health records and suddenly are not as interested. I have to say that I am not suprised.
Good luck old friend, unless of course you end up across town, in San Diego, NY, Milwaukee, Cincinatti , or ....never mind. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. We would probably have to pay for the surgery that followed.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Where?
by ExNorthsider on
Dec 12, 2007 9:30 PM CST
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http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/69476
by china423 on
Dec 12, 2007 9:31 PM CST
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its
by Glacier on
Dec 12, 2007 9:32 PM CST
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I'm disappointed
I still have a feeling he's going to return to form. (Then again, I thought Derrick May and Hee Seop Choi would be All-Stars.)
by Richie Hebner 18 on
Dec 12, 2007 9:32 PM CST
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I feel the same
I think the Cubs likely did the right thing, but it just doesn't feel right.
by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan on
Dec 12, 2007 9:42 PM CST
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So long "employee"
by madtown on
Dec 12, 2007 9:33 PM CST
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Employee
by lemon20pie on
Dec 13, 2007 7:29 PM CST
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I bet Dusty's...
by CenTex Cubs on
Dec 12, 2007 9:36 PM CST
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Here's the story
This whole thing leaves me a bit numb at this point in time. I think there was a part of most, if not all of us, who injury after injury still had some hope that Wood and Prior could still amount to a tandem that would dominate year after year. There is likely a lot of blame to be handed around, to Prior, to the Cubs, their trainers, to doctors and pitching coaches. But I wonder if the Cubs career or Mark Prior ranks up there in terms of overall disappointments in the history of the sport.
In the end, however, it just seems that Prior was never really a Cub. My only basis for this is a gut instinct combined with the various rumors and the media consensus. It just seemed like from the get go Prior never wanted to be a Cub. He didn't seem to gut it out for the team. He displayed an overall aloof mentality that, reality or not, portrayed a player who wanted to be elsewhere. In the end, it appears that's what he choose.
Sorry but I cannot root for Prior. I put a ton of blame on the Cubs as far as Prior goes, the injuries, he passive way of dealing with this all, but Prior just never appeared to go the extra mile to make it work and when you're paid millions of dollars with the potential to make a lot more, you do that. It disappoints me that Prior, now that he's finally been surgically treated, will not pitch for the Cubs. But in the end the Cubs seemingly got the message that after this year he was going elsewhere.
DmL
by dmlichte on
Dec 12, 2007 9:37 PM CST
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Well said
Let me respond to this: "It would seem Prior was never really a Cub." Perhaps you are right - in the way that most players play on the team that drafted them or offered them the most money and are just playing in that uniform. The number of players like Andre Dawson who chose their team are very rare. The number of players like Ron Santo who live and breathe their team are even more rare.
It is clear now that Prior has no interest in pitching for the Cubs. The way the MLB.com piece is worded makes it clear negotiations are not ongoing. He got his freedom.
So, the question, again, "Was he ever a Cub?" I think he was in one way in 2003. He gave his arm and his shoulder for the Cubs, pitching past his breaking point. For those who cannot appreciate that, well, there are much worse things to fail to appreciate.
I'll be rooting for him; he is stil an amazing pitcher when healthy and I'm glad as Cub fans we got to experience that ability during a pennant race and post-season.
by DGU on
Dec 12, 2007 10:09 PM CST
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amen.
by PrincetonCubs on
Dec 12, 2007 10:32 PM CST
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I don't know....
by EJThunder on
Dec 12, 2007 9:43 PM CST
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Prior is a good lesson in expectations
The "greatest college pitcher of all time" fell to the Cubs because the Twins couldn't afford to pay him. (By couldn't afford, I mean that billionaire owner Carl Pohlad was unwilling to pay). The excitement was palpable in Cubdom. The next Tom Seaver was coming to Chicago, but when.
Well, Prior started in Double A and seemed even better than advertised, striking out 55 in less than 35 innings. The Southern League couldn't contain him, so he moved up to AAA, where he threw in 3 games, and posted an ERA of 1.62 and averaged 1.5 strikeouts per inning.
Next came a beautiful night in May 2002 when he made his debut at Wrigley Field. The Cubs sucked that year as did the Pirates, but Wrigley Field was packed with more than 40,000(this was before the Cubs sold out every game). There was only one good reason to be at Wrigley that night - to see the future of the franchise; the man with "perfect mechanics" who was going to win multiple Cy Young Awards.
We all looked in awe at this physical specimen, either unaware or ignoring the fact that he had been privately trained by former MLB pitcher and steroids enthusiast Tom House.
It obviously didn't work out as any of us had hoped, but the guy was responsible for some of the most exciting times any of us have witnessed as Cubs fans. His career arc is a good reminder of the unpredictability of the game.
by Porfi on
Dec 12, 2007 9:44 PM CST
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Great post Porfi, well said
I think he did all he could. I do not think it is fair that if someone does not have the personality that we want them have, the dumping on him starts. Some people are not the best at public speaking, some people do not have a smile like Ken Griffey Jr., or are as fun during at interview as Big Poppi. Prior was paid to pitch, and at moments he pitched better than I have ever seen anyone pitch.
A lot of stuff we still do not know, and may never know. Who are we to be experts?
I learned more about what kind of pain Koufax played with after reading a "Lefty's Legacy" than I ever gleaned from the newspaper articles and news of the day.
I thank him for the thrills and memories he provided. I am sad and sorry it did not work out for more years or greatness as a Cub. I hope he returns to form and can play for many more years.
I will only speak to what I saw 1st hand. He signed a baseball for me, chatted with me at the Cubs Convention, remembered me at
a Cubs/Twins game at the Metrodome last year at BP. He had a great game face when he was on the mound and dealing, and he gave me some of the most thrilling moments and best memories I have had in my life of being a Cub fan.
Good luck Mark.
by Cubskingdom on
Dec 12, 2007 10:30 PM CST
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Thank you for this post
Hopefully his setbacks will be behind him this year and he has a lot of success for an AL team.
by DGU on
Dec 12, 2007 10:47 PM CST
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May 22, 2002
I'll never forget it as it was the first game I ever attended with my son who was only five at the time and was asleep in my arms by the seventh inning stretch. When I bought the ticket, I had no idea that I would be able to bear witness to the first start of one of the most dominating (and, later, the most frustrating) pitcher in the league. It was a beautiful night, and when Sammy crushed that home run in the third to take the lead, you knew that it would be all Cubs for the rest of the game.
So, bye Mark. And thanks for the memories.
by jasoniniowa on
Dec 13, 2007 9:09 AM CST
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Actually it's the wrong move.
He's 26 years old with Cy Young caliber stuff when healthy.
For those who will undoubtedly scoff at my assertion that we should have kept him, I refer you, as I have many times before, to Chris Carpenter.
by Snake Plissken on
Dec 12, 2007 9:45 PM CST
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ya
DmL
by dmlichte on
Dec 12, 2007 9:49 PM CST
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But we don't know that he was going to leave
That said, he should have accepted the '09 option on the deal Hendry presented.
by Snake Plissken on
Dec 12, 2007 9:53 PM CST
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Are the Cubs trying to win in '08 or '09?
But I can tell you this - if Prior can pitch at full strength in October 2008, it doesn't matter if he planned on walking in November 2008. For 4 mill, if he has a 20% chance of being one of the Cubs top 3 starters in October, you pay the 4 mill.
by DGU on
Dec 12, 2007 10:12 PM CST
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yeah, i wish they would have just paid him.
by buckmulligan on
Dec 12, 2007 10:19 PM CST
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You've git to get to October first
by Snake Plissken on
Dec 12, 2007 10:21 PM CST
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Hardly the wrong move
by Perkins on
Dec 12, 2007 11:05 PM CST
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The odds are not a million to one
What's done is done. We'll have to wait to see what he does.
by DGU on
Dec 12, 2007 11:26 PM CST
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Meh
by Perkins on
Dec 13, 2007 12:26 PM CST
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I never said
My contention is that those saying the former are hung up on the disappointments Prior's injuries have caused them while the latter are recognizing a good business bargain.
by DGU on
Dec 13, 2007 1:52 PM CST
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Nah Nah Nah Hey Hey Hey.....
by Galvan316 on
Dec 12, 2007 9:45 PM CST
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I think you forgot a verse...
THE EMPLOYEE IS UNEMPLOYED
Dan
by dtpollitt on
Dec 12, 2007 9:50 PM CST
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He's Not Necessarily Gone, Right?
Apparently the Padres' interest has "cooled"... supposedly. <insert exaggerated wink here>
But, theoretically, he could return. Nothing in the article shows that he indeed has (or will not have) no offers pending...
by initram on
Dec 12, 2007 9:49 PM CST
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In the words of Hawk H.
If you read the Muskat piece, it's clear he's gone. "The Cubs and Mark Prior have parted ways" is how the article begins.
The article makes it clear Prior is done with the Cubs.
Good luck, Mark, and thanks for the memories!
by DGU on
Dec 12, 2007 10:15 PM CST
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Technically
There's no reason the Cubs can't sign him as a free agent now. Not that they would but they can.
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 10:55 PM CST
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My take
Luis
by Luis on
Dec 12, 2007 9:52 PM CST
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Woody
by madtown on
Dec 12, 2007 9:54 PM CST
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From what I understand....
The Reds will make their move, or whoever, but as far as where the Cubs are now, it was the right thing to do. It removes the thoughts of what once was from that team and moves in the right direction.
I am not Sen. Mitchell, and I do not have access to his files. I do not approve of how MLB has handled this problem at all, but I firmly believe that any list that is put together will have more pitchers names on it than anyone is comfortable with. If Mark Prior's name was on that list it would not shock me at all. The way that tendons and muscles in his body seemed to implode (shoulder, elbow (minus the bank shot he took vs. the Rockies) and his shoulder) that is not normal.
by louslovechild on
Dec 12, 2007 10:03 PM CST
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FIRE! Ready, Aim...
When the Cubsters are done with you get ready for full force (media) gale.
by DrCrawdad on
Dec 13, 2007 12:29 AM CST
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as opposed to the white sox
by Thelonious on
Dec 13, 2007 12:54 AM CST
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Media vs. Managers...
Did Dave "spinster" Kaplan EVER expose Prior in '03 or '04? No, Kaplan was probably spinning away for Prior regarding the "Ducky" incident and covering up Prior's allegedly being disliked by his teammates.
That Dave Kaplan is one courageous reporter, skilled at throwing bricks from a distance.
by DrCrawdad on
Dec 13, 2007 1:04 AM CST
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Hey man.
by cwyers on
Dec 13, 2007 1:09 AM CST
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funny
I'm sure DrCrawdad will call me biased, but any team (including the cubs) that witnesses that many players outperform their projections (many cases, to extreme proportions) is lucky in my book.
In regard to what I just said, and my statement above comparing KW and Guillen to the cub media badmouthing: I'm not really a "rah rah" type baseball fan. I don't necessarily argue with DrCrawdad in his assessment of those media personalities. More importantly, I don't really care.
My only argument is that he obviously likes to come over and stir the pot, when it's clearly evident that the trashy sox organization prefers to jump into the fray directly. An observer might consider this a pot-kettle situation (only, in this case, DrCrawdad is acting as the pot's agent/proxy in the calling of "black"). Until I see Hendry challenge Prior to fisticuffs, or at the very least, a pie eating contest, I'll continue to recognize a clear difference between each organization's MO.
by Thelonious on
Dec 13, 2007 1:32 AM CST
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Who got lucky?
2005 Sox 99 wins, AL Central Champs, World Championship, 11-1 in post-season
2006 Sox 90 wins, 3rd place
Back-to-back 90 win seasons, when was the last the Cubbies have done that?
Want to talk about luck, look no further than you '04 Cubbies.
2007 Cubbies 85 wins, NL Central "Champs" 0-4 in post-season
by DrCrawdad on
Dec 13, 2007 1:48 AM CST
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Meant, '07 Cubbies
by DrCrawdad on
Dec 13, 2007 1:50 AM CST
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Hit 'em high, hit 'em low...
Oh, and ask Paul Sullivan what he thinks of Cubbie (mis)management, after being called into a meeting with Cubbie management and Sullivan's direct manager...
by DrCrawdad on
Dec 13, 2007 1:55 AM CST
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Go away.
by Kinky Reggae on
Dec 13, 2007 3:55 PM CST
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Cubbie fans concur with Crawdad...
by DrCrawdad on
Dec 14, 2007 10:38 AM CST
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Booooring...
by Kinky Reggae on
Dec 14, 2007 11:06 AM CST
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There you go, again...
Talk about boring.
by DrCrawdad on
Dec 14, 2007 11:12 AM CST
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Here ya go doc...
Still however, had I known what you were debating, I would still be forced to disregard whatever you have to say because the majority of the BS you spew out here is worthless crap that is meant to rile people up.
And do not mistake my response for being riled up...it is quite siomilar in fact, to my response to my 7 year old nephews when they are acting immature and annoying. Though I love them very much and you...well...are simply annoying.
Please, stick with your crowd.
by Kinky Reggae on
Dec 14, 2007 11:42 AM CST
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"He didn't want to be here"
What a bunch of a horse pucky. Nobody on this board, and nobody in the media, can accurately comment on what's going on in this guy's mind and what his feelings are/were toward the franchise.
The other big load of crap is that Prior was a wuss who didn't want to play. Honestly, we probably never got the whole story about the achilles injuries. But nobody in their right mind would have expected him to pitch immediately after the Giles collision. We certainly wouldn't have when his pitching elbow was broken. We shouldn't have when he had surgery this year. Prior's injuries were a whole lot less about his tolerance for pain than they were about a star-crossed player.
If you didn't like the guy or were just frustrated by unfulfilled promises, more power to you. For me, he became one of my all-time favorites in '03 and I'll miss the guy---even though I think it may be better for him to go. I'm just sick of the "he can't leave fast enough, he was brittle and didn't want to be here," crap that's continually spouted by people who are making assumptions or believing every rumor they hear.
Sorry for the rant, peace in the middle east, I'm out.
by JDay on
Dec 12, 2007 10:02 PM CST
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That's why I'm really hoping he does well elsewher
When the media flat out knowingly is lying tonight it makes me sick. Kaplan who I respected most of every member of the media outside of Bruce Miles knowingly lied tonight when he said Prior never went to an event.
Not only does he know Prior was at every convention Prior appeared on his sports central broadcast almost every year!
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 10:39 PM CST
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LOUD SUSTAINED APPLAUSE
The great problem with Prior was that he has a cool, aloof air about him. He's a low key guy and when everyone wants a piece of you, that just won't do. You are most correct that he wasn't the media hound. He apparently had an uphill battle gelling with his team in the congenial working relationship that pro ballers of any sport would have. That's just the way he was and likely will be. He was no Ryan Dempster, able to crack jokes and engage an audience.
The whole incident with that charity event which he was sued for didn't help.
But he was a great pitcher. My personal touch to the lore of the Cubs will always include the Mark Prior of 2004 fighting through what very likely was bonafide pain to give everything he could in that game in which the Cubs still lost, but he was the champion. I watched that game and the fire in his eyes we saw still amazes me. Watching his shoulders droop at his inability to continue in the game after giving his all in that one game is no sign of him being a "clubhouse cancer" to me. He was a gamer and he wanted to win, and for that Cub fans should be grateful.
There's a lot of bandwidth we can waste here about what happened since then and why the Cubs and Prior went their separate ways. It's worthy of discussion. But Prior will always be a luminary in the star field of the Cubs Nation, and I hope he does well where ever he goes.
Just not in the National League. Please, God ..
by cubnational on
Dec 13, 2007 8:40 AM CST
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All This Means...
Best of luck, Mark.
by initram on
Dec 13, 2007 9:44 AM CST
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I'm going to miss him
The only regret with Prior is that, and I truly believe this, he will return to form and that it is not going to be in a Cubs uniform. He has been a favorite of mine since he came up and think its too bad the 'Mark Prior Era' of the Cubs ends like this.
Again, doubt he will ever see this, but I wish him the best of luck in the future
by DTJchris on
Dec 12, 2007 10:09 PM CST
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Just good business
Hopefully to Erik Bedard, who I honestly think would make us NL favorites.
by SamFels on
Dec 12, 2007 10:12 PM CST
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Not good business at all
The Cubs have a large enough budget and a deep enough pitching corps that they should be investing in at least one high-risk-high-reward pitcher who could make all the difference in October.
The Cubs can pitch a Gallagher or a Marshall in that 5th starter spot for 4 months and leave open the possibility of a Prior/Garcia/Colon type coming in at the end to significantly bolster the playoff rotation. And if that P/G/C player tanks, it's no big deal at all.
A good business decision is to spend a pittance of your budget on that off-chance that you hit playoff gold. Since the Cubs did not make that decision, it seems clear that one of three things are the case -
- Mark Prior did not want to pitch for the Cubs and may have even been willing to slow his recovery time if the Cubs tendered him a contract.
- The Cubs organization just don't want to deal with Prior anymore.
- The Cubs looked at Prior's medical data and said, "He won't be ready and he won't be the pitcher he was before." (That's the only way this would be a good business decision; it's just not how the Cubs are describing this decision.)
by DGU on
Dec 12, 2007 10:27 PM CST
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Will he be booed
What kind of reaction do you think he will get if he signs with an NL team and they go to Wrigley and he's pitching?
It should be interesting...
by ak123 on
Dec 12, 2007 10:14 PM CST
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i hate this move.
he's going to end up winning a cy young somewhere.
and why drop him now, after he's finally had surgery? this whole thing scares the crap out of me.
by buckmulligan on
Dec 12, 2007 10:15 PM CST
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Technically
Yes there will be some people booing him if he comes in to pitch for a new team.
Kaplan flat out lied on the radio tonight. He stated he never appeared at any events and did nothing for charity.
For the record he was at every convention and Kerry's bowling events at the minimum.
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 10:34 PM CST
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One quick comment from me.
None of us thought, on that draft day in 2001, that Prior's tenure with the Cubs would end like this. I doubt he'll see a major league mound till 2009 at the earliest. Could be be Chris Carpenter and have several big years and a Cy Young for another team?
Yes, but more likely, he's Steve Busby or Dennis Leonard or Gary Nolan or Don Gullett. Look 'em all up.
In retrospect, the Cubs should have taken Mark Teixeira.
by Al on
Dec 12, 2007 10:44 PM CST
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How is pointing out lies
How is pointing out a fact about Prior's status not thought out?
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 10:48 PM CST
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Oh yes
And where did I bring up hate? I pointed out facts.
It has been said all over the place this means he can't be a Cub next year.
While he most likely is gone it is not true they can't sign him.
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 10:50 PM CST
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Whoa!
I do know, for a FACT, that Mark Prior was sued for breach of contract for the infamous appearance event that he "attended" for twenty minutes in the NW Suburbs, leaving many kids disappointed, an event he was handsomely paid for.
Yeah, he probably attended Kerry Wood's bowling events, but most of the players do. This is a fact, as well.
And, the Cubs Convention I would assume is a contract stipulation, in exchange for the millions of dollars the player makes. It is either in writing, or a verbal agreement that is "strongly suggested" that the player attend.
Mark Prior was a beast. But, he's also a tool, I'm sorry to say. Perhaps he'll change as the years pass.
The Cubs have had several recent reclamation projects: Wade Miller, Scott Williamson, Glendon Rusch, Chad Fox, Ryan Dempster, and Kerry Wood...
They got lucky on two.
by TheEman on
Dec 12, 2007 11:18 PM CST
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Convention
Yes there was the event at Just Ducky which wound up being very poorly run and executed by both sides. (that's the event you referred to).
Kaplan knows very well Prior made charity appearances. Heck he was featured in a Cubs care brochure at several.
If Kaplan didn't know very well Prior was at every convention I wouldn't be as bothered by what he said tonight.
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 11:22 PM CST
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Well, he was liable
Secondly, if you look up the Conventions, most of the latin players who do not have permanent residence in this country, do not attend.
The players who live stateside, for the most part, show up.
Just admit you have a crush on the guy.
Its time for him to move on.
by TheEman on
Dec 12, 2007 11:33 PM CST
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I'm just pointing out facts
But when the talk is peppered with endless rehashing of the employee comment and such it's when it gets stupid.
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 11:36 PM CST
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I'm not taking sides in this argument
The kids that were disappointed were upset about the situation, but I don't think Prior was 100% to blame. The event was poorly advertised. For several days before, there was a large ad in the local paper announcing the visit and autograph session; this ad did not explain the "rules" of the event. Signs up and down Route 59 (a major road) announced the Prior appearance, with the "rules" in such small print that you couldn't see them as you drove by. A huge banner in front of the store, shouted out Prior's upcoming appearance for weeks in advance (the store is in a strip mall with a big grocery store, several restaurants, and a bunch of other shops - also it sits on the major highway running through the Naperville/Aurora area), everyone around there knew that Prior was coming. No one knew there were rules. Once you got inside the store you found out that he'd only be allowed to sign certain items - all of which were ridiculously overpriced knick-knacks sold by the shop (I'm talking about things like a $200 ceramic Wrigley Field cookie jar thing). If I recall, the cheapest thing he was allowed to sign was over $100. People were immediatly upset about this. I was there about an hour early and saw several dozen people turn right around, dragging crying kids behind them. I stuck around, holding out hope that the rules would be ammended as the event went on.
The shop certainly had a right to do whatever they wanted with the event - it's their store and they paid Prior to come, but the people who showed up took exception with the way they "surprised" us with the rules. Kids were broken hearted, parents were upset, fans felt misled. By the hordes of people standing there with balls, jerseys, cards, and photos to get signed, it was quite apparent that people weren't aware of the "rules" before they got there. Store employees didn't know how to answer the questions about fairness and false advertising, so pretty quickly they started getting rude and defensive. It was ugly before Prior even got there.
On top of that, they had Prior tucked away in this little back room where people couldn't even see him. I didn't get an autograph, but a few of my friends did. (I have no need for an ugly Prior signed cookie jar) I hung around with some fans outside, hoping maybe Mark would sign a few more autographs on his way out to the car after the session was over. While I was out there, people who had gone into the back room were complaining that the store wasn't allowing them to get pictures taken with Mark, that kids weren't allowed an extra autograph on a card - even if they did buy the Ducky crap, and that the store personnel was getting ruder and ruder.
The store people were pushing the line along, not giving anyone time to chat or take a picture or even say hello. My friends say they saw Prior getting more and more upset with the way things were going. Finally, the whole thing boiled over and he left.
Should he have stuck it out and honored the contract? Yes.
Do I blame him for leaving, having seen first hand the terrible way that event was run and the way fans were treated? No, in fact I wrote a letter to the local paper a few days later defending his decision.
All that said, I just want people to get another side of the story before they judge Prior on that incident.
As far as his attitude, the employee comment, his percieved wussiness, whether or not his teammates like him, and the likelihood of him coming back - judge away.
by HectorVillanueva on
Dec 13, 2007 8:54 AM CST
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I'll give you credit
He was a tool to the media but at every event I ever saw him at he was always friendly and accomodating. More than a little shy but friendly and accomodating.
It just really bothers me when I see all over the net people thinking intelligent baseball commentary is using terms like piece of poo, calling a person female body parts and such.
Saying someone is a bad pitcher or a bust is one thing.
Saying a person is a bad person based on one event or one comment is another.
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 11:28 PM CST
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Also
He did not have to stop and sign autographs before and after games.
He wasn't nice to the media and I don't blame him for some of the stuff they've pulled.
A typical radio show in Chicago is hosts calling players names and then wondering why they won't come on with them.
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 11:32 PM CST
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Sorry, but yeah
Without the fans, and the media, you are Barry Bonds.
It comes with the territory if your career is professional sports.
by TheEman on
Dec 12, 2007 11:36 PM CST
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The autographis
I'm sad his career ended this way.
And mad about another big time disappointment.
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 11:38 PM CST
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If
There are very few members of the media who are professional in this city. Bruce Miles and 96 percent of the time Dave Kaplan are. Dan Pompeii covering the Bears is.
Kaplan said that Prior never attended any events. Since he hosted a few Prior attended he knew that was a lie. If he had stated never besides some team required ones it would be different.
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 11:40 PM CST
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Kap
I want to hear the Score be more like Kaplan not Kaplan be more like the Score.
Same thing with Barry Rozner descending into almost Mariotti type articles.
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 11:41 PM CST
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Or, could it be
Prior let out many signs over the years of what he was all about. If you chose to ignore them because you had blinders on, that's your business.
by MPH73 on
Dec 13, 2007 9:06 AM CST
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Convention
He only signed for kids though but he was there.
by ak123 on
Dec 13, 2007 8:47 AM CST
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Busby, Leonard, Nolan, Dreifort......
by BeerCub on
Dec 12, 2007 11:00 PM CST
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I don't think the comparison was based
by rlpete on
Dec 12, 2007 11:06 PM CST
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carpenter's recent injury was his elbow
With that note, I being a Red's fan who just likes to stop by because this is an excellent blog, wouldn't mind seeing Cincinnati sign Prior to an incentive laden one year deal, with an option for 2009. Even if he is just a shell of his former self he could still be a league average pitcher in 2009. One thing that he had going for him was he was a control artist who could throw hard. I would never classify Prior as a "thrower". So if he tops out at 87-90, it isn't like he will have to completely relearn his craft, he just won't be the great pitcher he once was.
by stevegoodman on
Dec 12, 2007 11:44 PM CST
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Retrospective
There's a lot of retrospective and recrimination that could be done; hopefully this diary can avoid that.
But if I had one "in retrospect" that can avoid any bitterness it would simply be that I wish Hendry had traded for a veteran reliever Dusty might have trusted.
What's done is done. The 2008 Cubs will be a good team whether Prior goes on to pitch 20 games for someone else in 2008 or only 2.
by DGU on
Dec 12, 2007 11:03 PM CST
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Teixera vs. Lee
Drafting Prior was clearly the better choice, in hindsight.
by Thelonious on
Dec 13, 2007 12:04 AM CST
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Come now
Well, if not, I'll run some numbers and see that by VORP, if you leave out the injury-shortened 2006, Lee has been worth 22.3 points more than Teixeira since 2004.
Lee's name is also easier to spell - so there.
by DGU on
Dec 13, 2007 12:27 AM CST
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I do have to agree
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Dec 12, 2007 10:52 PM CST
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I'm just not worried
by rlpete on
Dec 12, 2007 11:05 PM CST
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good riddance
by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on
Dec 12, 2007 11:14 PM CST
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The difference between
My heart right now says "Damn!" Only this would happen to us; where "The Franchise" would be a bust (face it, he has been). Part of my heart feels for Mark Prior because I can't imagine what it would feel like to know you have the toys, but never getting to play with them. My heart also feels that he could come back, and be dominating. BUT...
My mind tells me thank God this is over. Face it, we've all been spared. Anyone remember what this blog was like EVERY February for years and years when we went through the frustrations of Mark getting injured? Of that empty feeling when you knew, YOU JUST KNEW, in a matter of days you would hear a report that he is hurt? Also, this is a SMART move done by the Cubs. I want everyone that thinks it was dumb, to go into your boss, and say "For the next 3 years I'm not going to produce the product you're paying me for. Then, MAYBE, I'll come back to full form. AND I'll seek greener grass if you don't follow my demands." Lets see how that turns out. As far as being a "hater" I'm not one of them. I never wish these situations on anyone. However, my mind tells me not to feel bad for him. WHERE IS OUR DISCOUNT? WHERE IS HIM SHOWING US HE WANTS TO BE HERE? WE GAVE HIM CHANCE, AFTER CHANCE, AFTER CHANCE. AND WHAT DOES HE BRING US? Maybe I'm too old school, but you pay your dues, and be loyal...he should be grateful for all the Cubs gave him.
by TCobb1911 on
Dec 12, 2007 11:41 PM CST
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What discount
Based on his 42W, 657IP, 757K, and 3.51 ERA, that comes out to three years of quality pitching. Hell Jason Marquis is going to make $21M and we don't expect him to put up those kind of numbers. Jake Peavy is going to make $17M next year for about 225IP.
I get what you are saying, but Prior and Wood are different on many many levels.
by IllinoisCubs on
Dec 12, 2007 11:52 PM CST
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Ummm
by TCobb1911 on
Dec 12, 2007 11:58 PM CST
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I can tell you're not a hater
The biggest misconception I see here is this idea that baseball pitchers are "paid to pitch." They are not. If they were, they would get paid after each game. They are paid for their talent. They are like experimental scientists or artists who you pay and wait to see what they can produce with their talent.
Imagine hiring a scientist to research the goal of reducing wind gusts off of Lake Michigan by 50%. What would that scientist say if after a year of hard work on the issue he told you he couldn't find a way to do it and you said, "You idiot! I demand you work for less money for another year on the same topic and if you don't take this deal I'll complain about how unloyal you are!"
Prior worked hard when he was healthy and as far as I can tell he worked hard at his rehab. He can't help what was either caused by physical limitations or systematic abuse (or both). He worked for his money. He deserved it for his talent and potential alone. But he worked for it, too.
by DGU on
Dec 13, 2007 12:01 AM CST
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You're paid for what
by TCobb1911 on
Dec 13, 2007 12:05 AM CST
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Wow, an all caps "." - I'm convinced
No - each of those guys was paid up front for the potential of what they might produce. They are paid for talent not for results.
If you showed me evidence that Prior slacked off in his rehab or held something back in the games he played in, I'd be sympathetic to your argument. But I see none of that evidence.
Playing baseball is not like working in an office. Thank God for that.
by DGU on
Dec 13, 2007 12:14 AM CST
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FIRST OF ALL
by TCobb1911 on
Dec 13, 2007 12:30 AM CST
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an appeal in all small caps
i would agree with you that prior is worthy of inclusion in the axis of evil if you showed me him slacking off or failing to work hard at rehab. every indication i have is that he worked hard, and when healthy, he literally worked his arm off. literally.
i am also not sure what you mean by prior being given the benefit of the doubt time and time agan and given chance after chance. were the cubs giving him chances and benefits of doubts when they sent him to aaa and let the rumor circulate that he was soft?
and is prior disloyal if he prefers to play in his home city?
i do agree with you on this - i also would not fight jason kendall.
by DGU on
Dec 13, 2007 12:52 AM CST
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Prior's Confrontation with Barry Bonds
I know that your time with the Cubs ended badly, Mark. But thanks for some awful good memories.
by Cubfansince1957 on
Dec 12, 2007 11:45 PM CST
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It was even better than that
in the same series and irate Bonds said he was going to
"teach them ( Prior and Z) to respect their elders" . At the press
conference immediately after the Cubs clinched in 03 and THOUGHT they would playing the Giants in first round. Prior
slyly said that he had " not yet learned to respect my elders"
which I thought was hysterical and brilliant. It was one of the
funnier Cub player insults of all time.
I will always remember the 03 playoff game when he outpitched
Maddux.
Clearly there has been bad blood between Hendry and Prior for
a while. This is unusual as Hendry generally gets along well with
players. I don't think the Cubs had much choice but to cut him loose as their was just no chance of his staying after next year
however I will miss him and except when pitching against the Cubs I will root for him
by jessica on
Dec 13, 2007 8:14 AM CST
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This was a business decision
It's . . .a . . .business.
Prior is eligible for free agency after next season, and is in line for a big payday, at least three years at 8 million per, if he pitches well in the second half of this season. More if he pitches really well.
The Cubs don't want to pay him three million dollars to rehab and then have him leave after making eight starts for them. Prior doesn't want to lose a year of big money and free agency by signing a one-year deal with an option.
Would it be nice if he'd have shown some loyalty, like Wood, and paid the Cubs back with an option year? Yeah, sure would have. It also would have been nice if the Cubs had shown some loyalty to him and not let Dusty Baker destroy his arm down the stretch in 2003.
I'm not going to cheer for Mark Prior in the future. I'm not going to boo him either. I wish him well, hopefully in the American League where we don't have to face him. But if he pitches against the Cubs, I wish him nothing but a loss.
by Josh77 on
Dec 12, 2007 11:58 PM CST
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Well said, but
Put it another way - what is the downside of the Cubs having Prior on their 40-man for 3 mill, assuming they aren't counting on him for anything? They don't have space for him on the 40-man? Well, DFA Fontenot and Pagan, then. They don't have the $? I don't believe that for a minute, but if it's true, salary dump Marquis and replace him with Gallagher. The downside of keeping Prior is minimal. The Octboer upside is great.
by DGU on
Dec 13, 2007 12:09 AM CST
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I still don't get it --
Either I am missing something, or this is a dumb move, even if you have no plans to keep him.
by cubmudgeon on
Dec 13, 2007 7:51 AM CST
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LOUDER SUSTAINED APPLAUSE
This post, however, really ties it down.
Josh, you the man.
by cubnational on
Dec 13, 2007 9:15 AM CST
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Mark Prior
Another cheated fan.
by centerdrive on
Dec 13, 2007 12:22 AM CST
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Nonsense
For one thing, Prior never got the big payday that Wood got. For another, while the Woodies for Wood crowd constantly rehashes the argument that Wood resigned with the Cubs because he felt he owed something to the franchise or the fans never seem to mention the fact that Wood married a local woman and both of them have, in the past, emphasized her desire to stay near her family.
People spent so much time labeling Prior as soft before his recent surgery, they have failed to adjust their view after some facts about the extent of his injuries came into play when the doctors finally sliced him open.
Bottom line: Prior doesn't owe the Cubs or the fans a damned thing. But a whole lot of folks who think they can read his mind, Kerry Wood's mind and Jim Hendry's mind certainly owe Prior an apology.
by Porfi on
Dec 13, 2007 12:34 AM CST
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I'm sorry, centerdrive,
- Prior did give back to the city. What he gave in 2003, pushing his arm past the limit as he did should have been more than enough.
- What fans? The ones who call him "soft" and much worse?
- Prior did try pitching with more than a little discomfort. He had no velocity and was ineffective.
- The Cubs non-tendered Prior, not the other way around. Why does he have to sign a contract giving the Cubs an option year when other teams are willing to give him more? Why is the blame not on the Cubs?
- How has Mark Prior cheated you? Seriously, how?
by DGU on
Dec 13, 2007 12:38 AM CST
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To "Nonsense"
"Joe" that works for a living (making what these players make in a month), I think he owes the fans another year of credible service. Maybe I am selfish, but this franchise will reward him well if he produces like he should. Hell, maybe I should have quit watching this team 30 years ago...what do I know about baseball.
by centerdrive on
Dec 13, 2007 12:42 AM CST
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A couple of things
- A housekeeping tip - I see you're new to the site. It helps if you click where it says "Reply to This" when you want to respond to someone. That was the discussions are easier to follow.
- If you want to give a substantive reply to explain why, in era where people routinely seek out the biggest paycheck available no matter what field or industry they work in, you think he "owes" the Cubs anything, I'd love to hear it. If you'd rather get into a pissing competition about the legitimacy of my status as a fan, I will go ahead and tell you that I've been a full season ticket holder for more than 25 years. I go to 25-30 home games per year and at least two series on the road. More importantly, even if I became a fan yesterday, it would have nothing to do with the substance of my argument.
by Porfi on
Dec 13, 2007 1:10 AM CST
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I'm a volleyball fan
by centerdrive on
Dec 13, 2007 1:25 AM CST
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I'll miss him alot
by Unique on
Dec 13, 2007 4:22 AM CST
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What a slap in the face to the Cubs organization
Hell, I wouldn't even doubt if he is on the Mitchell list today. Could that be why he wasn't resigned?
by Chanman25 on
Dec 13, 2007 6:36 AM CST
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I also find it interesting...
DmL
by dmlichte on
Dec 13, 2007 7:17 AM CST
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When Scott Rolen says nothing it's called
The end of Paul Sullivan's article revealed to me where I guess a lot of fans are coming from:
"No more towel drills. No more simulated games.
"The 2008 season will be a fresh start for Prior, and the Cubs."
Ah - I see - now that Mark Prior is gone, the Cubs will never again struggle with a pitcher having multiple injuries. We'll just employ healthy pitchers. We could probably end up saving a lot of money by scrapping the medical staff now that Prior is gone so that we can make a run at signing Johan Santana next year.
by DGU on
Dec 13, 2007 7:58 AM CST
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Huh?
Who the hell said this? I've been blaming the Cubs and their staff for a long damn time. I believe they were far too passive and way off base thinking that just shutting him down would do squat. But any time here Prior could have explained why he refused the option year but he didn't. He could have let the fans and baseball world into what was going on on his side. Perhaps he doesn't give a damn about the PR side of things but he clearly doesn't get that being a major leaguer is more than just going out to the mound.
DmL
by dmlichte on
Dec 13, 2007 8:25 AM CST
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Sorry - two separate thoughts
In general, I think Cubs fans are reacting negatively to Prior as if it's his fault he had injuries and as if investing in injury prone pitchers is a bad idea just because Hendry counted on two injury prone pitchers for too long instead of doing what he finally did last year - getting the pitching depth that whatever you got from the injury prone pitchers was gravy.
But I don't think you were saying that. The only thing I was responding to you about was the idea that he needed to step forward and give his side. I don't think he needs to do that; in fact, I hope he doesn't. I hope, unlike Frank Thomas, he just moves on and plays well for his new team.
by DGU on
Dec 13, 2007 8:58 AM CST
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I Don't Know.......
by BeerCub on
Dec 13, 2007 8:11 AM CST
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Prior and Mitchell report?
Lots of names in the Mitchell report supposedly.
It will be interesting if Prior is one of them. It sure would have been the final chip to fall against him.
by AlabamaCubFan on
Dec 13, 2007 7:46 AM CST
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This makes me a bit nervous...
Wonder if Hendry thought to sign and include in a package to the O's for Bedard or Roberts. A throw in of course but...
by Kinky Reggae on
Dec 13, 2007 8:00 AM CST
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Here is my prediction
by Kinky Reggae on
Dec 13, 2007 8:02 AM CST
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he's not staying in Chicago
by cubfaninSTL on
Dec 13, 2007 8:14 AM CST
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Perhaps
I agree that SD is a big possibility but i can't help that KW has money to spend and will offer it up to see if he can snag him.
I may be wrong though. I personally would go to SD.
by Kinky Reggae on
Dec 13, 2007 8:19 AM CST
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if he goes to SD
by cubfaninSTL on
Dec 13, 2007 8:34 AM CST
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So long, Mark
I don't know, I'm just struggling to care at this point. Mark hasn't been a part of the Cub team for a long time now. I certainly don't wish him ill. I'm not in the habit of throwing around steroid accusations or the like. I simply just don't care about Mark Prior not being on the Cubs anymore. He clearly didn't want to be on the team. That's the way it goes.
by Scott on
Dec 13, 2007 8:19 AM CST
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After reading your post I have to say I agree...
by Kinky Reggae on
Dec 13, 2007 8:20 AM CST
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Don't cry for me...
I don't have any ill feelings towards him. He was hurt. I have acceptedthat the Cubs appear to think that throwing a baseball doesn't increase the risk of an arm injury and that these picther guys just mysteriously blow up their arms.
But there's no reason to feel bad for anyone here. The Cubs are going to cash in on a huge pay day soon, Prior cashed in on a huge pay day while here, and as I write this it's being reported that Dusty has Prior on hold while he's talking to Sammy. Smoothe landings for everyone.
by DudeVf11 on
Dec 13, 2007 8:41 AM CST
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Loyalty
- Cliff Floyd wanted to return for another season in his hometown. Do the Cubs owe him another season?
- Mark DeRosa wants to play 2nd base next year. After his very good 2007, do the Cubs owe him that and not trade for Brian Roberts?
- Glendon Rusch is still trying to come back. Why didn't the Cubs give him another contract instead of letting him go?
by rlpete on
Dec 13, 2007 8:50 AM CST
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Exactly, except for one thing
by DGU on
Dec 13, 2007 9:02 AM CST
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You are correct
by rlpete on
Dec 13, 2007 9:09 AM CST
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Loyalty is a 2 way street
I also would find club loyalty nice so I can root for players rather than a business organization but those days are long gone for the same reasons there's going to be more advertising at Wrigley this year.
by Arbusto on
Dec 13, 2007 9:04 AM CST
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No logic here
I'd say that you are reaching with your three comments but no one's arms are that long.
DmL
by dmlichte on
Dec 13, 2007 9:14 AM CST
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Only Prior regret
The only thing I regret is that I never got to see him pitch in a Cubs uniform in person. That I would have truly loved to see.
by ak123 on
Dec 13, 2007 8:53 AM CST
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It's hard to miss a guy...
I was at Game 5 in Miami in 2003 and when the Marlins walked off the field victorious we Cub fans in the upper deck started chanting PRI-OR, PRI-OR, because we all pretty much knew we'd get at least one more win before the series was over and probably win Game 6 easily.
I can see why the Cubs didn't want to keep dumping money to a guy who might not even pitch in 2008. They had to fish or cut bait and they cut bait.
I have no hard feelings for the guy. Like many have said, I don't know what's going on in his head. But does anybody really think it's likely that Prior regains his 'prior' form and the Cubs come to regret this? I sure don't.
by rgonzale on
Dec 13, 2007 9:15 AM CST
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I don't get this...
I don't think I'll miss Prior as much as the torturing hope that I always had for him.
by Kyle Turney on
Dec 13, 2007 9:25 AM CST
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With his track record
Whoever he signs with will have an option to bring him back in 09. If that doesn't tell everyone he simply didn't want to be here, I don't know what will.
by MPH73 on
Dec 13, 2007 9:57 AM CST
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We'll soon see what he gets
by DGU on
Dec 13, 2007 10:31 AM CST
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Good Luck Mark
Dusty ragging his arm in the summer of 2003, The Giles collision and the line drive that drilled him.
He is a West coast guy, Padres will sign him.
I think the Cubs were fair, sign for 2008 and an option year for 09, Prior said no, and on to the West Coast.
When healthy he was dominant, just a shame it turned out this way.
No hard feelings here, hope he does well, just not against the Cubs.
by Johnny Callison was a Cub on
Dec 13, 2007 10:09 AM CST
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It's the wrong and right move.
It's the right move, IMO, because Prior has been soaking up pay since 2005, and hasn't made 30 since 2003. Also, though I could be wrong, I believe that Prior got really tired of the pressure that Chicago media and fans put on him. The expectations surrounding Prior -and the fact that Hendry continued to build the starting rotation around Woody and Prior- were the reasons for all of the pressure. Therefore, I think he got tired of being a Cub and no longer wanted to be one.
We can all speculate, but the truth is that the Cubs have invested a lot of time, money, and hope into Mark Prior, and, unlike Wood, Prior doesn't feel the need to be loyal to the organization or the fans. The Cubs wanted to sign him to a one-year contract with an option so that -maybe, just maybe- they might be able to get a return on their longtime investment. He wouldn't do it.
End of story
by Mark H on
Dec 13, 2007 10:44 AM CST
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Prior
by DA4528 on
Dec 13, 2007 11:27 AM CST
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As long
by HectorVillanueva on
Dec 13, 2007 12:47 PM CST
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How sweet would this be?
by ak123 on
Dec 13, 2007 4:34 PM CST
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At one time
I guess I should retire my #22 Prior t-shirt now.
by sue369 on
Dec 13, 2007 6:38 PM CST
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