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It Is Official: Mark Prior Is Gone

Is this good news? I am not sure. He may catch on somewhere and become the second coming (he is only 26 after all) but the Cubs made the right move here.  We all remember 2003, but that was then and this is now, and the Cubs are headed in a different direction. I did hear today that the Padres took a look at his health records and suddenly are not as interested. I have to say that I am not suprised.

Good luck old friend, unless of course you end up across town, in San Diego, NY, Milwaukee, Cincinatti , or ....never mind. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. We would probably have to pay for the surgery that followed.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Where?
Could you please provide a link?
"These are terrible times, and I shouldn't joke about them." --Warren Zevon

by ExNorthsider on Dec 12, 2007 9:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

its
also on the cubs main page. supposivley dave kaplan announced it on WGN as well

by Glacier on Dec 12, 2007 9:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm disappointed
Here's a guy who hasn't pitched 6 innings in a win since August 2005.  And I'm still disappointed he's leaving.

I still have a feeling he's going to return to form.  (Then again, I thought Derrick May and Hee Seop Choi would be All-Stars.)

by Richie Hebner 18 on Dec 12, 2007 9:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I feel the same
you summed it up completely, except of course for the May/Choi thing. I fear he will haunt the Cubs in the future...maybe an AL team will sign him.

I think the Cubs likely did the right thing, but it just doesn't feel right.

Cubs chances in '08? Beats the FUK-U-DO-ME!

by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan on Dec 12, 2007 9:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So long "employee"
The guy obviously didn't want to be here.  

by madtown on Dec 12, 2007 9:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Employee
I ordered a custom #22 Cubs jersey with "Employee" on the back.
I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Dec 13, 2007 7:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I bet Dusty's...
..licking his chops.  

by CenTex Cubs on Dec 12, 2007 9:36 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Here's the story
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-071212prior,1,410674.story?coll=cs-c ubs-headlines

This whole thing leaves me a bit numb at this point in time. I think there was a part of most, if not all of us, who injury after injury still had some hope that Wood and Prior could still amount to a tandem that would dominate year after year. There is likely a lot of blame to be handed around, to Prior, to the Cubs, their trainers, to doctors and pitching coaches. But I wonder if the Cubs career or Mark Prior ranks up there in terms of overall disappointments in the history of the sport.

In the end, however, it just seems that Prior was never really a Cub. My only basis for this is a gut instinct combined with the various rumors and the media consensus. It just seemed like from the get go Prior never wanted to be a Cub. He didn't seem to gut it out for the team. He displayed an overall aloof mentality that, reality or not, portrayed a player who wanted to be elsewhere. In the end, it appears that's what he choose.

Sorry but I cannot root for Prior. I put a ton of blame on the Cubs as far as Prior goes, the injuries, he passive way of dealing with this all, but Prior just never appeared to go the extra mile to make it work and when you're paid millions of dollars with the potential to make a lot more, you do that. It disappoints me that Prior, now that he's finally been surgically treated, will not pitch for the Cubs. But in the end the Cubs seemingly got the message that after this year he was going elsewhere.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 12, 2007 9:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well said
Your post was thoughtful and well worth reading; it is in stark contrast to some of the other commentary already in this diary.

Let me respond to this:  "It would seem Prior was never really a Cub."  Perhaps you are right - in the way that most players play on the team that drafted them or offered them the most money and are just playing in that uniform.  The number of players like Andre Dawson who chose their team are very rare.  The number of players like Ron Santo who live and breathe their team are even more rare.

It is clear now that Prior has no interest in pitching for the Cubs.  The way the MLB.com piece is worded makes it clear negotiations are not ongoing.  He got his freedom.

So, the question, again, "Was he ever a Cub?"  I think he was in one way in 2003.  He gave his arm and his shoulder for the Cubs, pitching past his breaking point.  For those who cannot appreciate that, well, there are much worse things to fail to appreciate.

I'll be rooting for him; he is stil an amazing pitcher when healthy and I'm glad as Cub fans we got to experience that ability during a pennant race and post-season.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 12, 2007 10:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

amen.
I hope something can be worked out between Prior and the Cubs, but either way, I wish him well.  He is a joy to watch when healthy.

by PrincetonCubs on Dec 12, 2007 10:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know....
Like a couple people have posted earlier I felt like there was still a possibility that Prior could return to form. I just hope he doesn't turn out to be another one that got away... even though we gave him multiple (understatement) chances. I just don't like the fact that he couldn't respect the organization a little more. The Cubs have invested so much time and effort into him. If regains his form I hope, at least, it isn't in a Cincinatti Reds uniform. Mixed feelings on this one...

by EJThunder on Dec 12, 2007 9:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Prior is a good lesson in expectations
Hard to believe that this was the single most anticipated new Cub in recent memory, possibly ever.

The "greatest college pitcher of all time" fell to the Cubs because the Twins couldn't afford to pay him.  (By couldn't afford, I mean that billionaire owner Carl Pohlad was unwilling to pay).  The excitement was palpable in Cubdom.  The next Tom Seaver was coming to Chicago, but when.

Well, Prior started in Double A and seemed even better than advertised, striking out 55 in less than 35 innings.  The Southern League couldn't contain him, so he moved up to AAA, where he threw in 3 games, and posted an ERA of 1.62 and averaged 1.5 strikeouts per inning.

Next came a beautiful night in May 2002 when he made his debut at Wrigley Field.  The Cubs sucked that year as did the Pirates, but Wrigley Field was packed with more than 40,000(this was before the Cubs sold out every game).  There was only one good reason to be at Wrigley that night - to see the future of the franchise; the man with "perfect mechanics" who was going to win multiple Cy Young Awards.

We all looked in awe at this physical specimen, either unaware or ignoring the fact that he had been privately trained by former MLB pitcher and steroids enthusiast Tom House.

It obviously didn't work out as any of us had hoped, but the guy was responsible for some of the most exciting times any of us have witnessed as Cubs fans.  His career arc is a good reminder of the unpredictability of the game.

Fukudome is my homie

by Porfi on Dec 12, 2007 9:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Great post Porfi, well said
I was at that game, and the feeling was electric. I have great Prior memories. I chased him down a few blocks from Wrigley after my last Cubs game living in Chicago in 2003, and he rolled down his window and signed a ball for me.

I think he did all he could. I do not think it is fair that if someone does not have the personality that we want them have, the dumping on him starts.  Some people are not the best at public speaking, some people do not have a smile like Ken Griffey Jr., or are as fun during at interview as Big Poppi. Prior was paid to pitch, and at moments he pitched better than I have ever seen anyone pitch.

A lot of stuff we still do not know, and may never know. Who are we to be experts?

I learned more about what kind of pain Koufax played with after reading a "Lefty's Legacy" than I ever gleaned from the newspaper articles and news of the day.

I thank him for the thrills and memories he provided. I am sad and sorry it did not work out for more years or greatness as a Cub. I hope he returns to form and can play for many more years.

I will only speak to what I saw 1st hand. He signed a baseball for me, chatted with me at the Cubs Convention, remembered me at
a Cubs/Twins game at the Metrodome last year at BP. He had a great game face when he was on the mound and dealing, and he gave me some of the most thrilling moments and best memories I have had in my life of being a Cub fan.

Good luck Mark.

Good Guys Wear Blue

by Cubskingdom on Dec 12, 2007 10:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you for this post
It is just one more reminder that Prior doesn't "owe" the Cubs anything.  He gave this organization a ton; and if his work down the stretch in 2003 really did cause the shoulder problem, then what he gave the Cubs cost him a minimum of 50 million dollars, to say nothing of the frustration of ongoing physical setbacks.

Hopefully his setbacks will be behind him this year and he has a lot of success for an AL team.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 12, 2007 10:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

May 22, 2002
I was there at his first game too.  Here's the box score for that game.

I'll never forget it as it was the first game I ever attended with my son who was only five at the time and was asleep in my arms by the seventh inning stretch.  When I bought the ticket, I had no idea that I would be able to bear witness to the first start of one of the most dominating (and, later, the most frustrating) pitcher in the league.  It was a beautiful night, and when Sammy crushed that home run in the third to take the lead, you knew that it would be all Cubs for the rest of the game.

So, bye Mark.  And thanks for the memories.

"I don't think anybody's paying attention to the Cubs." - Prince Fielder

by jasoniniowa on Dec 13, 2007 9:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually it's the wrong move.
4-4.5 million? The Cubs probably make that in one day of in-park beer sales!

He's 26 years old with Cy Young caliber stuff when healthy.

For those who will undoubtedly scoff at my assertion that we should have kept him, I refer you, as I have  many times before, to Chris Carpenter.

by Snake Plissken on Dec 12, 2007 9:45 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

ya
well if Mark Prior says that he's gone after this year, its not worth half that to pay and rehab Prior. Basically what the Cubs were paying Prior was strictly for this year. Clearly he wanted out after this year so the investment is over. It pays off whatever it does in 2008 and then he goes elsewhere.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 12, 2007 9:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But we don't know that he was going to leave
Speculation by sports reporters an him calling humself an "employee" once does not mean he was calling a cab.

That said, he should have accepted the '09 option on the deal Hendry presented.

by Snake Plissken on Dec 12, 2007 9:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Are the Cubs trying to win in '08 or '09?
As fans we won't be able to determine right now if this was the right move or the wrong move.  We don't know the medical story.  Estimates of when he will start pitching are all over the 2008 calendar.

But I can tell you this - if Prior can pitch at full strength in October 2008, it doesn't matter if he planned on walking in November 2008.  For 4 mill, if he has a 20% chance of being one of the Cubs top 3 starters in October, you pay the 4 mill.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 12, 2007 10:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, i wish they would have just paid him.
i mean, we gave marquis how much? i'd much rather be waiting on prior that have marquis.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Dec 12, 2007 10:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hardly the wrong move
Carpenter is pretty much the lone exception coming off of labrum surgery that successful, and he's injured again. The odds are a million to one. Keeping Prior at this point would have been not only dumb, but irresponsible.
ROTHSCHILD!

by Perkins on Dec 12, 2007 11:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The odds are not a million to one
It is certainly less than a 50% chance that he's ready this year, less than even a 30% chance, but greater than a 15% chance.

What's done is done.  We'll have to wait to see what he does.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 12, 2007 11:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Meh
If you think Prior will ever be anything like he was in 2003, that's your business, but it doesn't change the fact that tendering him a contract for next season would have been a total waste of money. He certainly won't be anything like effective in 2008, and probably will never be very good again.
ROTHSCHILD!

by Perkins on Dec 13, 2007 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I never said
he'd be 2003 Mark Prior.  I said he has a chance of being an effective pitcher.  I did not say he would be an effective pitcher.  I said he has a 20% chance of being one.  So, you will be able to name 10 guys who had similar injuries and won't and I will only be able to name two.  When we go through that exercise, some people, prone to exaggeration, will say, "See he CERTAINLY won't be effective," and others will say, "A 20% chance of a play-off worthy pitcher for 3 mill, that's not a bad bet to take."

My contention is that those saying the former are hung up on the disappointments Prior's injuries have caused them while the latter are recognizing a good business bargain.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 13, 2007 1:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nah Nah Nah Hey Hey Hey.....
Goodbye!
"I guess you had some lean years, and didnt have to beat it hard" - Craig Sager

by Galvan316 on Dec 12, 2007 9:45 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think you forgot a verse...
...Nah Nah Nah Nah...Nah Nah Nah Nah...Hey Hey...Goodbye...

THE EMPLOYEE IS UNEMPLOYED

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 12, 2007 9:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's Not Necessarily Gone, Right?
I thought that an offer from the Cubs of 1 incentive laden year plus a club option is still out there, right (barring Hendry putting a time line on it or retracting the offer)?

Apparently the Padres' interest has "cooled"... supposedly.  <insert exaggerated wink here>

But, theoretically, he could return.  Nothing in the article shows that he indeed has (or will not have) no offers pending...

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 9:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

In the words of Hawk H.
"Higawn!"

If you read the Muskat piece, it's clear he's gone.  "The Cubs and Mark Prior have parted ways" is how the article begins.

The article makes it clear Prior is done with the Cubs.

Good luck, Mark, and thanks for the memories!

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 12, 2007 10:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Technically
You're right.  

There's no reason the Cubs can't sign him as a free agent now.  Not that they would but they can.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 10:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My take
Prior may return to form, but even if he does, the Cubs should have no regrets. If a guy doesn't want to be in your organization then that's the end of it. Think about this: let's say Prior returns mid 08 season and pitches well; for a guy that has had 4 straight years with injuries and who is confident of his ability (which you assume he is) he would at least need to show he can have a good complete season before he can cash in big time. The money that Prior can make from a good half a season in '08 would be nothing compared to what he can make after a good half '08 and a good complete '09. And from the info we have been given it seems negotiation an option for '09 was never really discussed. To me that just says he didn't want to be here and if that was the case then I think it's better to move on. At least that's the way I see it.

Luis

by Luis on Dec 12, 2007 9:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Woody
It's hard not to compare him to Wood.  Kerry has made it known, both through his words and his actions, how much he wants to be a part of this organization.  When he was hurt, he showed up at the park to support his team when he could.  You never saw any of that from Prior.

by madtown on Dec 12, 2007 9:54 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

From what I understand....
from Kaplan on WGN and writers in both papers, he wasnt wanted in the clubhouse. He wasnt liked by his  fellow players, and he was purposefully removed from the team and sent to rehab in Arizona. (That last bit was from Kaplan's remarks tonight.)

The Reds will make their move, or whoever, but as far as where the Cubs are now, it was the right thing to do. It removes the thoughts of what once was from that team and moves in the right direction.

I am not Sen. Mitchell, and I do not have access to his files. I do not approve of how MLB has handled this problem at all, but I firmly believe that any list that is put together will have more pitchers names on it than anyone is comfortable with. If Mark Prior's name was on that list it would not shock me at all. The way that tendons and muscles in his body seemed to implode (shoulder, elbow (minus the bank shot he took vs. the Rockies) and his shoulder) that is not normal.

by louslovechild on Dec 12, 2007 10:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

FIRE! Ready, Aim...
"From what I understand....from Kaplan on WGN and writers in both papers, he wasnt wanted in the clubhouse. He wasnt liked by his  fellow players, and he was purposefully removed from the team and sent to rehab in Arizona. (That last bit was from Kaplan's remarks tonight.)"

When the Cubsters are done with you get ready for full force (media) gale.

"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Dec 13, 2007 12:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

as opposed to the white sox
Where departing players can expect to hear Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen talk shit.

by Thelonious on Dec 13, 2007 12:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Media vs. Managers...
...Cubster media (primarily radio and newspaper) firing away and doing the dirty work for the organization is hardly comparable fire power to two goofs (Guillen and KW) shooting their mouths off (and then being criticized by Cubbie media).

Did Dave "spinster" Kaplan EVER expose Prior in '03 or '04?  No, Kaplan was probably spinning away for Prior regarding the "Ducky" incident and covering up Prior's allegedly being disliked by his teammates.

That Dave Kaplan is one courageous reporter, skilled at throwing bricks from a distance.

"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Dec 13, 2007 1:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey man.
Those two "goofs," as you so classlessly put it, have done more to bring a World Series to Chicago in the past decade than Dave Kaplan EVER has. So just you knock that off, Sox-hater.
I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 1:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

funny
To me, it seems more and more evident that they lucked into that championship. Subsequent business dealings by Williams, and the apparent management philosophies of Guillen seem to support this assessment.

I'm sure DrCrawdad will call me biased, but any team (including the cubs) that witnesses that many players outperform their projections (many cases, to extreme proportions) is lucky in my book.

In regard to what I just said, and my statement above comparing KW and Guillen to the cub media badmouthing: I'm not really a "rah rah" type baseball fan. I don't necessarily argue with DrCrawdad in his assessment of those media personalities. More importantly, I don't really care.

My only argument is that he obviously likes to come over and stir the pot, when it's clearly evident that the trashy sox organization prefers to jump into the fray directly. An observer might consider this a pot-kettle situation (only, in this case, DrCrawdad is acting as the pot's agent/proxy in the calling of "black"). Until I see Hendry challenge Prior to fisticuffs, or at the very least, a pie eating contest, I'll continue to recognize a clear difference between each organization's MO.

by Thelonious on Dec 13, 2007 1:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Who got lucky?
"... (The White Sox) lucked into that championship. Subsequent business dealings by Williams, and the apparent management philosophies of Guillen seem to support this assessment."

2005 Sox 99 wins, AL Central Champs, World Championship, 11-1 in post-season
2006 Sox 90 wins, 3rd place

Back-to-back 90 win seasons, when was the last the Cubbies have done that?

Want to talk about luck, look no further than you '04 Cubbies.

2007 Cubbies 85 wins, NL Central "Champs" 0-4 in post-season

"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Dec 13, 2007 1:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Meant, '07 Cubbies
n/t
"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Dec 13, 2007 1:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

At least
At least you can count. 0-4?  When did the NLDS go to best of 7?  

by TheHawk5 on Dec 13, 2007 3:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hit 'em high, hit 'em low...
...while Hendry takes the "high road" his cohorts in the Tribune newspaper and radio take the low road for him.

Oh, and ask Paul Sullivan what he thinks of Cubbie (mis)management, after being called into a meeting with Cubbie management and Sullivan's direct manager...

"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Dec 13, 2007 1:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Go away.
That is a fair request isn't it?
MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 13, 2007 3:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cubbie fans concur with Crawdad...
Note the discussion in the Cubs NG:
Some stories that came out this past summer said that the Cubs pretty much threw Prior under the bus. The team implied that he wasn't really hurt, that he just wouldn't try to throw through normal soreness, that he wasn't tough enough to be a ML pitcher. Then they found the shoulder injury they had been missing. - "John", 12/13/07
I agree with you, John. The Cubs used their propaganda machine to smear Prior and it was all uncalled for and undeserved.  Even Al Yellon took to calling him names that inferred that Prior was some sort of weak-willed and weak-minded dolt who only imagined the pain in his shoulder. - "Frank Sereno", 12/13/07
"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Dec 14, 2007 10:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Booooring...
you are boring and you should keep your White Sox propoganda where it belongs...in your ass.
MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 14, 2007 11:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There you go, again...
No answers, no info., no reasoned debate, as per usual from you, just attacks.

Talk about boring.

"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Dec 14, 2007 11:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here ya go doc...
I can't even keep track of your annoying debates that you wage here.  I had no answer because I do not even know what debate you are engaged in.

Still however, had I known what you were debating, I would still be forced to disregard whatever you have to say because the majority of the BS you spew out here is worthless crap that is meant to rile people up.

And do not mistake my response for being riled up...it is quite siomilar in fact, to my response to my 7 year old nephews when they are acting immature and annoying.  Though I love them very much and you...well...are simply annoying.

Please, stick with your crowd.

MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 14, 2007 11:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"He didn't want to be here"
The biggest problem with Mark Prior, outside of the injuries, is that he didn't have the outgoing personality some other players have. He didn't give great interviews. He didn't continually try to put himself in front of the camera the way Sosa did or Zambrano does. Had he stayed healthy and dominated, no one would have gave a ** about his personality. Since he was hurt and wasn't able to take the ball, the problem is that he just didn't have enough heart and wouldn't play through pain.

What a bunch of a horse pucky. Nobody on this board, and nobody in the media, can accurately comment on what's going on in this guy's mind and what his feelings are/were toward the franchise.

The other big load of crap is that Prior was a wuss who didn't want to play. Honestly, we probably never got the whole story about the achilles injuries. But nobody in their right mind would have expected him to pitch immediately after the Giles collision. We certainly wouldn't have when his pitching elbow was broken. We shouldn't have when he had surgery this year. Prior's injuries were a whole lot less about his tolerance for pain than they were about a star-crossed player.

If you didn't like the guy or were just frustrated by unfulfilled promises, more power to you. For me, he became one of my all-time favorites in '03 and I'll miss the guy---even though I think it may be better for him to go. I'm just sick of the "he can't leave fast enough, he was brittle and didn't want to be here," crap that's continually spouted by people who are making assumptions or believing every rumor they hear.

Sorry for the rant, peace in the middle east, I'm out.

by JDay on Dec 12, 2007 10:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

A-f'n-men
Fukudome is my homie

by Porfi on Dec 12, 2007 10:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's why I'm really hoping he does well elsewher
That's one of the reasons I really hope he succeeds elsewhere especially if he winds up in the AL.

When the media flat out knowingly is lying tonight it makes me sick.  Kaplan who I respected most of every member of the media outside of Bruce Miles knowingly lied tonight when he said Prior never went to an event.

Not only does he know Prior was at every convention Prior appeared on his sports central broadcast almost every year!

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 10:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOUD SUSTAINED APPLAUSE
My feelings totally through and through.

The great problem with Prior was that he has a cool, aloof air about him. He's a low key guy and when everyone wants a piece of you, that just won't do. You are most correct that he wasn't the media hound. He apparently had an uphill battle gelling with his team in the congenial working relationship that pro ballers of any sport would have. That's just the way he was and likely will be. He was no Ryan Dempster, able to crack jokes and engage an audience.

The whole incident with that charity event which he was sued for didn't help.

But he was a great pitcher. My personal touch to the lore of the Cubs will always include the Mark Prior of 2004 fighting through what very likely was bonafide pain to give everything he could in that game in which the Cubs still lost, but he was the champion. I watched that game and the fire in his eyes we saw still amazes me. Watching his shoulders droop at his inability to continue in the game after giving his all in that one game is no sign of him being a "clubhouse cancer" to me. He was a gamer and he wanted to win, and for that Cub fans should be grateful.

There's a lot of bandwidth we can waste here about what happened since then and why the Cubs and Prior went their separate ways. It's worthy of discussion. But Prior will always be a luminary in the star field of the Cubs Nation, and I hope he does well where ever he goes.

Just not in the National League. Please, God ..

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Dec 13, 2007 8:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

All This Means...
... is that I can now frame Prior's jersey instead of keeping it ready to wear.

Best of luck, Mark.

by initram on Dec 13, 2007 9:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to miss him
I wish him the best of luck and hope he can return to form and become the pitcher that he is capable of.  I always rooted for him no matter what and will continue to do so.  I am not going to spout off blame or anything just think that he has gotten a lot of bad rap and that it has been directed for wrongly towards him.

The only regret with Prior is that, and I truly believe this, he will return to form and that it is not going to be in a Cubs uniform.  He has been a favorite of mine since he came up and think its too bad the 'Mark Prior Era' of the Cubs ends like this.

Again, doubt he will ever see this, but I wish him the best of luck in the future

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 12, 2007 10:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Just good business
I agree we shouldn't speculate on what Prior wants or what he's thinking.  No one knows that but him and his agent.  But honestly, we can't pay the guy to rehab and not know we'd get a full season out of him.  Just wouldn't make sense.  This one won't be the one that got away, like Maddux or something, because this sound business.  We have some other needs, our payroll isn't endless and only getting worse.  If he wouldn't take the option year deal, then he needs to move on and so do we.

Hopefully to Erik Bedard, who I honestly think would make us NL favorites.

by SamFels on Dec 12, 2007 10:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Not good business at all
if we're just talking theory.  Leave aside the whole "does he want to play for the Cubs" as you suggest we must do.

The Cubs have a large enough budget and a deep enough pitching corps that they should be investing in at least one high-risk-high-reward pitcher who could make all the difference in October.

The Cubs can pitch a Gallagher or a Marshall in that 5th starter spot for 4 months and leave open the possibility of a Prior/Garcia/Colon type coming in at the end to significantly bolster the playoff rotation.  And if that P/G/C player tanks, it's no big deal at all.

A good business decision is to spend a pittance of your budget on that off-chance that you hit playoff gold.  Since the Cubs did not make that decision, it seems clear that one of three things are the case -

  1. Mark Prior did not want to pitch for the Cubs and may have even been willing to slow his recovery time if the Cubs tendered him a contract.
  2. The Cubs organization just don't want to deal with Prior anymore.
  3. The Cubs looked at Prior's medical data and said, "He won't be ready and he won't be the pitcher he was before." (That's the only way this would be a good business decision; it's just not how the Cubs are describing this decision.)
All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 12, 2007 10:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Will he be booed
Prior is most likely going to blast The Cubs as soon as he signs with a new team.

What kind of reaction do you think he will get if he signs with an NL team and they go to Wrigley and he's pitching?

It should be interesting...

by ak123 on Dec 12, 2007 10:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

i hate this move.
you know he's going to end up on the cardinals. i'd rather the cubs pay him a bunch of money to throw towels for ten more years.

he's going to end up winning a cy young somewhere.

and why drop him now, after he's finally had surgery? this whole thing scares the crap out of me.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Dec 12, 2007 10:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Technically
Technically this does not make Prior a non Cub.  They can sign him as a free agent.  Don't think it will happen but it does not mean they can't sign him.

Yes there will be some people booing him if he comes in to pitch for a new team.

Kaplan flat out lied on the radio tonight.  He stated he never appeared at any events and did nothing for charity.

For the record he was at every convention and Kerry's bowling events at the minimum.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 10:34 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

One quick comment from me.
Many of the posts above are well thought out and considerate. The one directly above this isn't; obviously, she still thinks there are "haters" out there.

None of us thought, on that draft day in 2001, that Prior's tenure with the Cubs would end like this. I doubt he'll see a major league mound till 2009 at the earliest. Could be be Chris Carpenter and have several big years and a Cy Young for another team?

Yes, but more likely, he's Steve Busby or Dennis Leonard or Gary Nolan or Don Gullett. Look 'em all up.

In retrospect, the Cubs should have taken Mark Teixeira.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 12, 2007 10:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

How is pointing out lies
How is pointing out lies said by Kaplan tonight not thought out?

How is pointing out a fact about Prior's status not thought out?

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 10:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yes
Continuing rehashing of the employee comment is really well thought out.

And where did I bring up hate?  I pointed out facts.

It has been said all over the place this means he can't be a Cub next year.

While he most likely is gone it is not true they can't sign him.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 10:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Whoa!
I did not hear the entirety of Kaplan's show tonight so cannot make comment on what you say are "lies".

I do know, for a FACT, that Mark Prior was sued for breach of contract for the infamous appearance event that he "attended" for twenty minutes in the NW Suburbs, leaving many kids disappointed, an event he was handsomely paid for.

Yeah, he probably attended Kerry Wood's bowling events, but most of the players do. This is a fact, as well.

And, the Cubs Convention I would assume is a contract stipulation, in exchange for the millions of dollars the player makes. It is either in writing, or a verbal agreement that is "strongly suggested" that the player attend.

Mark Prior was a beast. But, he's also a tool, I'm sorry to say. Perhaps he'll change as the years pass.

The Cubs have had several recent reclamation projects: Wade Miller, Scott Williamson, Glendon Rusch, Chad Fox, Ryan Dempster, and Kerry Wood...

They got lucky on two.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 12, 2007 11:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Convention
Several players every year don't make the convention.  

Yes there was the event at Just Ducky which wound up being very poorly run and executed by both sides. (that's the event you referred to).

Kaplan knows very well Prior made charity appearances.  Heck he was featured in a Cubs care brochure at several.

If Kaplan didn't know very well Prior was at every convention I wouldn't be as bothered by what he said tonight.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 11:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, he was liable
for $31,000 in fees for leaving after :45 minutes into a three-hour agreed upon appearance. That is a fact.

Secondly, if you look up the Conventions, most of the latin players who do not have permanent residence in this country, do not attend.

The players who live stateside, for the most part, show up.

Just admit you have a crush on the guy.

Its time for him to move on.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 12, 2007 11:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just pointing out facts
I wouldn't get so angry if people just said let him move on we need a fresh start.

But when the talk is peppered with endless rehashing of the employee comment and such it's when it gets stupid.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 11:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not taking sides in this argument
I'm not a fan of Prior's attitude, nor do I want to be accused of being hateful and nasty again - but I was at the Just Ducky event in Naperville a few years ago.  Yes, Prior did leave early, but I (and everyone that I spoke to that was there) believe he was justified in doing so.  

The kids that were disappointed were upset about the situation, but I don't think Prior was 100% to blame.  The event was poorly advertised.  For several days before, there was a large ad in the local paper announcing the visit and autograph session; this ad did not explain the "rules" of the event. Signs up and down Route 59 (a major road) announced the Prior appearance, with the "rules" in such small print that you couldn't see them as you drove by.  A huge banner in front of the store, shouted out Prior's upcoming appearance for weeks in advance (the store is in a strip mall with a big grocery store, several restaurants, and a bunch of other shops - also it sits on the major highway running through the Naperville/Aurora area), everyone around there knew that Prior was coming.  No one knew there were rules.  Once you got inside the store you found out that he'd only be allowed to sign certain items - all of which were ridiculously overpriced knick-knacks sold by the shop (I'm talking about things like a $200 ceramic Wrigley Field cookie jar thing).  If I recall, the cheapest thing he was allowed to sign was over $100.  People were immediatly upset about this.  I was there about an hour early and saw several dozen people turn right around, dragging crying kids behind them.  I stuck around, holding out hope that the rules would be ammended as the event went on.

The shop certainly had a right to do whatever they wanted with the event - it's their store and they paid Prior to come, but the people who showed up took exception with the way they "surprised" us with the rules.  Kids were broken hearted, parents were upset, fans felt misled.  By the hordes of people standing there with balls, jerseys, cards, and photos to get signed, it was quite apparent that people weren't aware of the "rules" before they got there.  Store employees didn't know how to answer the questions about fairness and false advertising, so pretty quickly they started getting rude and defensive.  It was ugly before Prior even got there.

On top of that, they had Prior tucked away in this little back room where people couldn't even see him.  I didn't get an autograph, but a few of my friends did.  (I have no need for an ugly Prior signed cookie jar) I hung around with some fans outside, hoping maybe Mark would sign a few more autographs on his way out to the car after the session was over.  While I was out there, people who had gone into the back room were complaining that the store wasn't allowing them to get pictures taken with Mark, that kids weren't allowed an extra autograph on a card - even if they did buy the Ducky crap, and that the store personnel was getting ruder and ruder.    

The store people were pushing the line along, not giving anyone time to chat or take a picture or even say hello.  My friends say they saw Prior getting more and more upset with the way things were going.  Finally, the whole thing boiled over and he left.  

Should he have stuck it out and honored the contract?  Yes.  

Do I blame him for leaving, having seen first hand the terrible way that event was run and the way fans were treated?  No, in fact I wrote a letter to the local paper a few days later defending his decision.

All that said, I just want people to get another side of the story before they judge Prior on that incident.

As far as his attitude, the employee comment, his percieved wussiness, whether or not his teammates like him, and the likelihood of him coming back - judge away.  

This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

by HectorVillanueva on Dec 13, 2007 8:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll give you credit
I'll give you credit too for I'm assuming counting Dempster as a successful rehab project.  There are a lot of fans who don't.

He was a tool to the media but at every event I ever saw him at he was always friendly and accomodating.  More than a little shy but friendly and accomodating.

It just really bothers me when I see all over the net people thinking intelligent baseball commentary is using terms like piece of poo, calling a person female body parts and such.

Saying someone is a bad pitcher or a bust is one thing.

Saying a person is a bad person based on one event or one comment is another.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 11:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Also
Also he didn't have to go to the bowling event or any of the other events he attended.

He did not have to stop and sign autographs before and after games.

He wasn't nice to the media and I don't blame him for some of the stuff they've pulled.

A typical radio show in Chicago is hosts calling players names and then wondering why they won't come on with them.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 11:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, but yeah
he "has" to sign autographs, and make appearances.

Without the fans, and the media, you are Barry Bonds.

It comes with the territory if your career is professional sports.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 12, 2007 11:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The autographis
He does not have to sign the autographs after the game or before the game.  Those aren't requirements.

I'm sad his career ended this way.  

And mad about another big time disappointment.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 11:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If
If the media acted like professionals I'd expect the Cubs and other players in this town to be professional.

There are very few members of the media who are professional in this city.  Bruce Miles and 96 percent of the time Dave Kaplan are.  Dan Pompeii covering the Bears is.

Kaplan said that Prior never attended any events.  Since he hosted a few Prior attended he knew that was a lie.  If he had stated never besides some team required ones it would be different.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 11:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kap
Kap also makes me angrier because sometimes like this he descends into Score type yellow radio.  

I want to hear the Score be more like Kaplan not Kaplan be more like the Score.

Same thing with Barry Rozner descending into almost Mariotti type articles.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 11:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Or, could it be
they are saying things that happen to be true, and you just refuse to acknowledge?

Prior let out many signs over the years of what he was all about.  If you chose to ignore them because you had blinders on, that's your business.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2007 9:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Convention
Prior was at the convention last year.

He only signed for kids though but he was there.

by ak123 on Dec 13, 2007 8:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Busby, Leonard, Nolan, Dreifort......
.....the comparisons to Chris Carpenter as it relates to the injuries, if memory serves, really aren't the same. I remember reading a while back that Prior's injury (labrum) is of the type where he'll be lucky to play a hard game of catch again, much less pitch in the major leagues. Carpenter's injury was his elbow. All this talk about Prior rehabbing is (unfortunately for Prior) just that, talk. The odds are stacked against him ever coming back. Sentimentality is playing a large part here but history shows that likely Prior has had his day in the sun.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Dec 12, 2007 11:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the comparison was based
on the specific injury but rather that these guys were also very promising pitchers who suffered injuries that prematurely ended their career.

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 11:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
....even with Carpenter's latest setback I'd bet a dollar he pitches in the majors again before Prior does.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Dec 12, 2007 11:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

carpenter's recent injury was his elbow
the Cardinals got him off the scrap heap, as he was recovering from reconstructive shoulder surgery.  He and Roger Clemans are the rarities, they both recovered fully from major shoulder injuries.  The norm is Paul Wilson, Jason Isringhousen, Jeff Brantley, Orel Hershiser, Ty Howington, Chris Grueller, and Doc Gooden just to name a few.  Some of those names you may not of heard of, they are Red's minor leaguers who were top prospects before shoulder injuries.  Shoulder problems such fraying robs other pitchers of once great stuff.  Matt Morris is an example.  His labrum is fraying, but not torn, but it is why he has lost so much velocity.  

With that note, I being a Red's fan who just likes to stop by because this is an excellent blog, wouldn't mind seeing Cincinnati sign Prior to an incentive laden one year deal, with an option for 2009.  Even if he is just a shell of his former self he could still be a league average pitcher in 2009.  One thing that he had going for him was he was a control artist who could throw hard.  I would never classify Prior as a "thrower".  So if he tops out at 87-90, it isn't like he will have to completely relearn his craft, he just won't be the great pitcher he once was.

by stevegoodman on Dec 12, 2007 11:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Retrospective
No thanks for Teixeira.  If we'd had him, we wouldn't have Derrek Lee.  I'm glad the Cubs picked Prior and we had the time with Mark we did.

There's a lot of retrospective and recrimination that could be done; hopefully this diary can avoid that.  

But if I had one "in retrospect" that can avoid any bitterness it would simply be that I wish Hendry had traded for a veteran reliever Dusty might have trusted.

What's done is done.  The 2008 Cubs will be a good team whether Prior goes on to pitch 20 games for someone else in 2008 or only 2.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 12, 2007 11:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Teixera vs. Lee
Yes, it's so nice that we have Lee instead of the younger, better, switch-hitting player who was cheap for his first several years in the league.

Drafting Prior was clearly the better choice, in hindsight.

by Thelonious on Dec 13, 2007 12:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Come now
Can't I just be a fan of Derrek Lee and be glad he's a Cub?

Well, if not, I'll run some numbers and see that by VORP, if you leave out the injury-shortened 2006, Lee has been worth 22.3 points more than Teixeira since 2004.

Lee's name is also easier to spell - so there.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 13, 2007 12:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I do have to agree
I do have to agree with Al that besides the usual rehashing of the employee comment and the na na hey hey thing these have been well thought out.
We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 12, 2007 10:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm just not worried
that the Cubs are going to have any major regrets over this move and especially in 2008.

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 11:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

good riddance
sorry, but the chances of Mark Prior making a strong comeback are pretty slim. Rarely does a pitcher return to form after major shoulder surgery. Kerry Wood was a miracle, and the jury is still out on him. Let it go, I say. $3.5 million on a pitcher who won't give the cubs anything in 2008, and wants to bolt after that? no thanks!

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Dec 12, 2007 11:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The difference between
speaking with the mind or the heart...
My heart right now says "Damn!" Only this would happen to us; where "The Franchise" would be a bust (face it, he has been). Part of my heart feels for Mark Prior because I can't imagine what it would feel like to know you have the toys, but never getting to play with them. My heart also feels that he could come back, and be dominating. BUT...
My mind tells me thank God this is over. Face it, we've all been spared. Anyone remember what this blog was like EVERY February for years and years when we went through the frustrations of Mark getting injured? Of that empty feeling when you knew, YOU JUST KNEW, in a matter of days you would hear a report that he is hurt? Also, this is a SMART move done by the Cubs. I want everyone that  thinks it was dumb, to go into your boss, and say "For the next 3 years I'm not going to produce the product you're paying me for. Then, MAYBE, I'll come back to full form. AND I'll seek greener grass if you don't follow my demands." Lets see how that turns out. As far as being a "hater" I'm not one of them. I never wish these situations on anyone. However, my mind tells me not to feel bad for him. WHERE IS OUR DISCOUNT? WHERE IS HIM SHOWING US HE WANTS TO BE HERE? WE GAVE HIM CHANCE, AFTER CHANCE, AFTER CHANCE. AND WHAT DOES HE BRING US? Maybe I'm too old school, but you pay your dues, and be loyal...he should be grateful for all the Cubs gave him.
I would not fight Jason Kendall.

by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2007 11:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

What discount
Prior was paid about $21M total by the Cubs the entire time he played for the team.  That's much much less than what Wood has been paid.

Based on his 42W, 657IP, 757K, and 3.51 ERA, that comes out to three years of quality pitching.  Hell Jason Marquis is going to make $21M and we don't expect him to put up those kind of numbers.  Jake Peavy is going to make $17M next year for about 225IP.

I get what you are saying, but Prior and Wood are different on many many levels.  

by IllinoisCubs on Dec 12, 2007 11:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ummm
thats 42 wins over FIVE YEARS. Thats 8.4 wins a year. Thats not worth $21M. Wood and Prior aren't on different levels. Without having the figures in front of me, I'd bet Kerry Wood was under some sort of contract at the time which was going to pay him that number regardless. Also, Kerry has shown he wants to be here and has always seemed appreciative.
I would not fight Jason Kendall.

by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2007 11:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I can tell you're not a hater
but I still disagree.  Mark Prior has nothing to be grateful to the Cubs for.  The only thing they gave him was a chance to pitch on a playoff team and he made full use of that chance and paid us back in full by his performance that year.

The biggest misconception I see here is this idea that baseball pitchers are "paid to pitch."  They are not.  If they were, they would get paid after each game.  They are paid for their talent.  They are like experimental scientists or artists who you pay and wait to see what they can produce with their talent.  

Imagine hiring a scientist to research the goal of reducing wind gusts off of Lake Michigan by 50%.  What would that scientist say if after a year of hard work on the issue he told you he couldn't find a way to do it and you said, "You idiot!  I demand you work for less money for another year on the same topic and if you don't take this deal I'll complain about how unloyal you are!"

Prior worked hard when he was healthy and as far as I can tell he worked hard at his rehab.  He can't help what was either caused by physical limitations or systematic abuse (or both).  He worked for his money.  He deserved it for his talent and potential alone.  But he worked for it, too.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 13, 2007 12:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're paid for what
you produce. PERIOD. He didn't produce squat for a long time. Thats when you get less money, and deservedly so.
I would not fight Jason Kendall.

by TCobb1911 on Dec 13, 2007 12:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, an all caps "." - I'm convinced
If you're paid for what you produce, then why was Kerry Wood paid what he was paid two years ago? Why was Pedro Martinez paid this past year?  Why will Mike Hampton make so much money this year?

No - each of those guys was paid up front for the potential of what they might produce.  They are paid for talent not for results.  

If you showed me evidence that Prior slacked off in his rehab or held something back in the games he played in, I'd be sympathetic to your argument.  But I see none of that evidence.

Playing baseball is not like working in an office.  Thank God for that.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 13, 2007 12:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

FIRST OF ALL
WHY DOES EVERYONE CLAIM ITS SO MUCH OF A BUSINESS THEN? YES YOU'RE PAID UPFRONT FOR POTENTIAL. WHEN THAT FIZZLES OUT, YOU WON'T GET SQUAT, AND SHOULDN'T EXPECT IT. ESPECIALLY AFTER AN ORGANIZATION HAS GIVEN YOU THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT TIME AND TIME AGAIN. LOYALTY SHOULD BE A HELL OF A LOT EASIER TO EXERCISE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE LOADED NO MATTER WHAT. SORRY, AGAIN, MAYBE OLD SCHOOL IS TOO OLD, I THINK HE'S UNAPPRECIATIVE.
I would not fight Jason Kendall.

by TCobb1911 on Dec 13, 2007 12:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

an appeal in all small caps
baseball is a business, but not a business like the ones most of us work in.  it is a business like ones that fund scientific research.  you put together the best talented team you can and pay them up front.  if one of them slacks off, you have reason to complain, but if they try their hardest and can't discover anything, you can't complain.  they tried; they failed.  it happens.

i would agree with you that prior is worthy of inclusion in the axis of evil if you showed me him slacking off or failing to work hard at rehab.  every indication i have is that he worked hard, and when healthy, he literally worked his arm off. literally.

i am also not sure what you mean by prior being given the benefit of the doubt time and time agan and given chance after chance.  were the cubs giving him chances and benefits of doubts when they sent him to aaa and let the rumor circulate that he was soft?

and is prior disloyal if he prefers to play in his home city?

i do agree with you on this - i also would not fight jason kendall.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 13, 2007 12:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Prior's Confrontation with Barry Bonds
I know that I am being sentimental, but I will always appreciate Prior in 2003, for an incident that many have forgotten.  The Cubs were playing in San Francisco, and were pitching around Bonds.  I think Prior bounced a pitch and it hit Bonds in the leg.  Bonds thought a second about advancing on the mound, and Prior started towards home plate and gestured with his hand in a "come on" motion to Bonds.  It was at that moment that I realized that the 2003 Cubs were going to be special.

I know that your time with the Cubs ended badly, Mark.  But thanks for some awful good memories.

Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, whadya say? The Cubs are going to win today!

by Cubfansince1957 on Dec 12, 2007 11:45 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It was even better than that
Z got Bonds to pop out for the 3rd out with the bases loaded
in the same series and irate Bonds said he was going to
"teach them ( Prior and Z) to respect their elders" . At the press
conference immediately after the Cubs clinched in 03 and THOUGHT they would playing the Giants in first round. Prior
slyly said that  he had " not yet learned to respect my elders"
which I thought was hysterical and brilliant. It was one of the
funnier Cub player insults of all time.
I will always remember the 03 playoff game when he outpitched
Maddux.
Clearly there has been bad blood between Hendry and Prior for
a while. This is unusual as Hendry generally gets along well with
players. I don't think the Cubs had much choice but to cut him loose as their was just no chance of his staying after next year
however I will miss him and except when pitching against the Cubs I will root for him
"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Dec 13, 2007 8:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This was a business decision
By both the Cubs and Prior.  It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Mark Prior is a good human being or whether or not he was "truly" a Cub.  It has nothing to do with any allegations that he took steroids because his calves aren't as big as they used to be.

It's . . .a . . .business.

Prior is eligible for free agency after next season, and is in line for a big payday, at least three years at 8 million per, if he pitches well in the second half of this season.  More if he pitches really well.

The Cubs don't want to pay him three million dollars to rehab and then have him leave after making eight starts for them.  Prior doesn't want to lose a year of big money and free agency by signing a one-year deal with an option.

Would it be nice if he'd have shown some loyalty, like Wood, and paid the Cubs back with an option year?  Yeah, sure would have.  It also would have been nice if the Cubs had shown some loyalty to him and not let Dusty Baker destroy his arm down the stretch in 2003.

I'm not going to cheer for Mark Prior in the future.  I'm not going to boo him either.  I wish him well, hopefully in the American League where we don't have to face him.  But if he pitches against the Cubs, I wish him nothing but a loss.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Dec 12, 2007 11:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well said, but
I just can't see how 8 regular season starts and 4 potential post-season starts wouldn't be worth 3 mill if there is a 1 in 5 chance that he is one of your 3 best starters in October 2008?  I can't see how 4 regular season starts + the post-season possibility wouldn't be worth 3 mill to a team like the Cubs.

Put it another way - what is the downside of the Cubs having Prior on their 40-man for 3 mill, assuming they aren't counting on him for anything?  They don't have space for him on the 40-man?  Well, DFA Fontenot and Pagan, then.  They don't have the $?  I don't believe that for a minute, but if it's true, salary dump Marquis and replace him with Gallagher.  The downside of keeping Prior is minimal.  The Octboer upside is great.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 13, 2007 12:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I still don't get it --
Why not sign him and then trade him? One reason they couldn't work a trade is because other teams expected to get him for free. Once you sign him, that goes away. Did they believe he is so iffy that they couldn't get something for him given a whole season to work on it?

Either I am missing something, or this is a dumb move, even if you have no plans to keep him.

by cubmudgeon on Dec 13, 2007 7:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOUDER SUSTAINED APPLAUSE
I spoke with my heart in my last post here.

This post, however, really ties it down.

Josh, you the man.

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Dec 13, 2007 9:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mark Prior
It really is disappointing that he could not give something back to the city and fans. I know this is a business, but he has made enough money to date to retire. Come on, give the fans another good year. Kerry Wood exemplifies a true player and fan of the game. He is giving back. Too bad Mr. Prior can't follow in his footsteps...my bad, that means he would have to pitch with a little discomfort.

Another cheated fan.

by centerdrive on Dec 13, 2007 12:22 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Nonsense
This is oft-repeated sentiment but it is utter nonsense to suggest that Prior follow in Wood's footsteps and take less money.

For one thing, Prior never got the big payday that Wood got.  For another, while the Woodies for Wood crowd constantly rehashes the argument that Wood resigned with the Cubs because he felt he owed something to the franchise or the fans never seem to mention the fact that Wood married a local woman and both of them have, in the past, emphasized her desire to stay near her family.

People spent so much time labeling Prior as soft before his recent surgery, they have failed to adjust their view after some facts about the extent of his injuries came into play when the doctors finally sliced him open.

Bottom line: Prior doesn't owe the Cubs or the fans a damned thing.  But a whole lot of folks who think they can read his mind, Kerry Wood's mind and Jim Hendry's mind certainly owe Prior an apology.

Fukudome is my homie

by Porfi on Dec 13, 2007 12:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry, centerdrive,
but it's posts like this that really disappoint me.
  1. Prior did give back to the city.  What he gave in 2003, pushing his arm past the limit as he did should have been more than enough.  
  2. What fans?  The ones who call him "soft" and much worse?
  3. Prior did try pitching with more than a little discomfort.  He had no velocity and was ineffective.
  4. The Cubs non-tendered Prior, not the other way around.  Why does he have to sign a contract giving the Cubs an option year when other teams are willing to give him more?  Why is the blame not on the Cubs?
  5. How has Mark Prior cheated you?  Seriously, how?
All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 13, 2007 12:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To "Nonsense"
I guess you caught your first ride on the Cubbie bandwagon back in '03? You know, as an everyday
"Joe" that works for a living (making what these players make in a month), I think he owes the fans another year of credible service. Maybe I am selfish, but this franchise will reward him well if he produces like he should. Hell, maybe I should have quit watching this team 30 years ago...what do I know about baseball.

by centerdrive on Dec 13, 2007 12:42 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

A couple of things
  1. A housekeeping tip - I see you're new to the site.  It helps if you click where it says "Reply to This" when you want to respond to someone.  That was the discussions are easier to follow.
  2. If you want to give a substantive reply to explain why, in era where people routinely seek out the biggest paycheck available no matter what field or industry they work in, you think he "owes" the Cubs anything, I'd love to hear it.  If you'd rather get into a pissing competition about the legitimacy of my status as a fan, I will go ahead and tell you that I've been a full season ticket holder for more than 25 years.  I go to 25-30 home games per year and at least two series on the road.  More importantly, even if I became a fan yesterday, it would have nothing to do with the substance of my argument.
Fukudome is my homie

by Porfi on Dec 13, 2007 1:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a volleyball fan
touche....you are the man. Prior sucks. The Cubs rock. I should never have posted anything because I am "new" to the site, it's only for the Chicago cult. I offer my deepest apology.

by centerdrive on Dec 13, 2007 1:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll miss him alot
n/t.
"Losing is my only fear"

by Unique on Dec 13, 2007 4:22 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

What a slap in the face to the Cubs organization
This organization has constantly employed Prior for three years which he barely pitched and when the club wants to give him a paycut and add a club option, he slaps them in the face and walks away. I used to respect Mark Prior as a pitcher, but now he just seems like an +++. Good riddance for all I say.  And I was one of the only Mark Prior supporters. At least Kerry Wood is a classy guy and took the paycut.

Hell, I wouldn't even doubt if he is on the Mitchell list today. Could that be why he wasn't resigned?

Live is boring until March 31st strolls by..

by Chanman25 on Dec 13, 2007 6:36 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I also find it interesting...
... that every step of the way Prior has been nowhere to be found. Won't speak to the media. Won't give people his side of the story. Just holed up somewhere like he's on a deserted island.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 13, 2007 7:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

When Scott Rolen says nothing it's called
"taking the high road."  Mark Prior, though, he's not just soft, he's a coward.

The end of Paul Sullivan's article revealed to me where I guess a lot of fans are coming from:

"No more towel drills. No more simulated games.

"The 2008 season will be a fresh start for Prior, and the Cubs."

Ah - I see - now that Mark Prior is gone, the Cubs will never again struggle with a pitcher having multiple injuries.  We'll just employ healthy pitchers.  We could probably end up saving a lot of money by scrapping the medical staff now that Prior is gone so that we can make a run at signing Johan Santana next year.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 13, 2007 7:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?
Ah - I see - now that Mark Prior is gone, the Cubs will never again struggle with a pitcher having multiple injuries.  We'll just employ healthy pitchers.  We could probably end up saving a lot of money by scrapping the medical staff now that Prior is gone so that we can make a run at signing Johan Santana next year.

Who the hell said this? I've been blaming the Cubs and their staff for a long damn time. I believe they were far too passive and way off base thinking that just shutting him down would do squat. But any time here Prior could have explained why he refused the option year but he didn't. He could have let the fans and baseball world into what was going on on his side. Perhaps he doesn't give a damn about the PR side of things but he clearly doesn't get that being a major leaguer is more than just going out to the mound.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 13, 2007 8:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry - two separate thoughts
I should have left the second part for a separate post, not a reply to you.  I didn't mean to imply you thought that or said it.  

In general, I think Cubs fans are reacting negatively to Prior as if it's his fault he had injuries and as if investing in injury prone pitchers is a bad idea just because Hendry counted on two injury prone pitchers for too long instead of doing what he finally did last year - getting the pitching depth that whatever you got from the injury prone pitchers was gravy.

But I don't think you were saying that.  The only thing I was responding to you about was the idea that he needed to step forward and give his side.  I don't think he needs to do that; in fact, I hope he doesn't.  I hope, unlike Frank Thomas, he just moves on and plays well for his new team.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 13, 2007 8:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I Don't Know.......
....if Prior not talking is his decision. Likely, it's his father's. If they're consistent, Prior hasn't done a thing, including scratching his backside and blowing his nose, without first clearing it with his father.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Dec 13, 2007 8:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Prior and Mitchell report?
I've always remembered that when Prior hurt his achilles (sp?) tendon there was someone who said he had used steroids when he was at USC -- a report Prior adamantly denied.

Lots of names in the Mitchell report supposedly.

It will be interesting if Prior is one of them.  It sure would have been the final chip to fall against him.

by AlabamaCubFan on Dec 13, 2007 7:46 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

This makes me a bit nervous...
I do not wish ill will but I also do not wish him great success with another club...that will sting!

Wonder if Hendry thought to sign and include in a package to the O's for Bedard or Roberts.  A throw in of course but...

MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 13, 2007 8:00 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Here is my prediction
Kenny Williams jumps on this opportunity to keep him in Chicago in hopes that he will be the next Garland to the Cubs.  Mark it in the books boys!
MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 13, 2007 8:02 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

he's not staying in Chicago
he'll go back out west where he is from.  
PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Dec 13, 2007 8:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps
or pehaps KW is so desperate now that he has missed EVERYTHING that has been available that he will see this as possible redemption.  

I agree that SD is a big possibility but i can't help that KW has money to spend and will offer it up to see if he can snag him.

I may be wrong though.  I personally would go to SD.

MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 13, 2007 8:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if he goes to SD
his 85 mph fastball might work in that ballpark.  
PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Dec 13, 2007 8:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So long, Mark
I'm really indifferent to the whole thing. Some people just don't fit with a particular club and I'm guessing that's what happened with Prior. He may have some hard feelings for what he considers wrongs by the organization.

I don't know, I'm just struggling to care at this point. Mark hasn't been a part of the Cub team for a long time now. I certainly don't wish him ill. I'm not in the habit of throwing around steroid accusations or the like. I simply just don't care about Mark Prior not being on the Cubs anymore. He clearly didn't want to be on the team. That's the way it goes.

by Scott on Dec 13, 2007 8:19 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

After reading your post I have to say I agree...
don't let the door hit ya.
MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 13, 2007 8:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't cry for me...
...Mark Prior leaving is the right move if he wouldn't give the Cubs an option year on a deal.  He's not going to pitch much if at all in 2008 so let him do rehab somewhere else.

I don't have any ill feelings towards him.  He was hurt.  I have acceptedthat the Cubs appear to think that throwing a baseball doesn't increase the risk of an arm injury and that these picther guys just mysteriously blow up their arms.

But there's no reason to feel bad for anyone here.  The Cubs are going to cash in on a huge pay day soon, Prior cashed in on a huge pay day while here, and as I write this it's being reported that Dusty has Prior on hold while he's talking to Sammy.  Smoothe landings for everyone.

by DudeVf11 on Dec 13, 2007 8:41 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Loyalty
The comment about Mark Prior owing the Cubs something makes me laugh.  It's a business and both sides know it.  Let's see:
  • Cliff Floyd wanted to return for another season in his hometown.  Do the Cubs owe him another season?
  • Mark DeRosa wants to play 2nd base next year.  After his very good 2007, do the Cubs owe him that and not trade for Brian Roberts?
  • Glendon Rusch is still trying to come back.  Why didn't the Cubs give him another contract instead of letting him go?
Prior is exercising the rights he has under his contract.  He doesn't owe the Cubs anything.  

by rlpete on Dec 13, 2007 8:50 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Exactly, except for one thing
It's not Prior walking away from the Cubs any more than it was Torre walking away from the Yankees earlier this year.  The Cubs could have had Prior for another year.  All they had to do was tender him a contract.  And they could have made that year a do-what-it-takes-to-win-back-his-affections kind of year.  Instead they - they, the Cubs - showed him the door.
All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 13, 2007 9:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You are correct
Prior decided he wasn't signing a multi-year contract and so the Cubs decided to non-tender him.  Both did what they thought was best for them.  I don't think any worse about Prior for his decision and I have no problem with what the Cubs did.  I don't have any thoughts about Prior returning in August as a dominating pitcher nad leading the Cubs to the Series.  I'd be surprised if he pitches much at all in the majors in 2008.  

by rlpete on Dec 13, 2007 9:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Loyalty is a 2 way street
I agree with your comments.  

I also would find club loyalty nice so I can root for players rather than a business organization but those days are long gone for the same reasons there's going to be more advertising at Wrigley this year.

by Arbusto on Dec 13, 2007 9:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Loyalty
would be nice in more than just baseball.  It's long gone in the corporate world too.  

by rlpete on Dec 13, 2007 9:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No logic here
There is absolutetly no logical connection between the aforementioned players that you came up with and Prior. I could say that Cliff Floyd should have come back at major league minimum because he was often injured and didn't put up a full season. That DeRosa is being paid the remainder of his contract that does not have it written in it that he plays a certain position. That Glendon Rusch pitched like ass over the bulk of his Cubs career while being overpaid.

I'd say that you are reaching with your three comments but no one's arms are that long.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 13, 2007 9:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And
Prior can do what his contract allows him to do too.  I agree mine are a stretch but I think the comments that Prior owes the Cubs anything are a stretch too.  

by rlpete on Dec 13, 2007 9:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Only Prior regret
If this is something The Cubs felt they needed to do then I stand by my team on this.  I don't think Prior wanted to be here and as stated earlier this doesn't mean he's not returning.  He has the right to explore free agency I guess...  Until he signs a contract with another team he has the chance to be a Cub.

The only thing I regret is that I never got to see him pitch in a Cubs uniform in person.  That I would have truly loved to see.

by ak123 on Dec 13, 2007 8:53 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's hard to miss a guy...
who hasn't been a factor in years.

I was at Game 5 in Miami in 2003 and when the Marlins walked off the field victorious we Cub fans in the upper deck started chanting PRI-OR, PRI-OR, because we all pretty much knew we'd get at least one more win before the series was over and probably win Game 6 easily.

I can see why the Cubs didn't want to keep dumping money to a guy who might not even pitch in 2008.  They had to fish or cut bait and they cut bait.

I have no hard feelings for the guy.  Like many have said, I don't know what's going on in his head.  But does anybody really think it's likely that Prior regains his 'prior' form and the Cubs come to regret this?  I sure don't.

by rgonzale on Dec 13, 2007 9:15 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't get this...
Who is going to sign Prior to a 1 year deal knowing that he may not even pitch this year and then let him go out on the market. I understand the team's position on this. I just don't get where Prior think's he is going. Does he think he might get a decent multi-year deal with someone even though he hasn't really pitched in a long time. If that is his angle, that would tell me he knows he'll never be back and he needs to cash in now before everyone finds out that his stuff is gone.

I don't think I'll miss Prior as much as the torturing hope that I always had for him.

"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Dec 13, 2007 9:25 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

With his track record
any team who only signs Prior for 08, is just plain stupid and I don't think anyone will.

Whoever he signs with will have an option to bring him back in 09.  If that doesn't tell everyone he simply didn't want to be here, I don't know what will.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2007 9:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We'll soon see what he gets
but based on the ESPN comment that 29 other teams will be interested in him, I wonder if he might get a bigger contract that doesn't just have a club option for '09.  We'll see.
All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 13, 2007 10:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good Luck Mark
 I think it is obvious he did not want to pitch for the Cubs.
 Dusty ragging his arm in the summer of 2003, The Giles collision and the line drive that drilled him.
 He is a West coast guy, Padres will sign him.
I think the Cubs were fair, sign for 2008 and an option year for 09, Prior said no, and on to the West Coast.
 When healthy he was dominant, just a shame it turned out this way.
 No hard feelings here, hope he does well, just not against the Cubs.

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Dec 13, 2007 10:09 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's the wrong and right move.
I say that it's the wrong move because, while I don't know for certain, I believe Hendry could've gotten something for him. By simply non-tendering Prior, the Cubs receive nothing. If they were going to do this, heck, even some mediocre low A-ball prospect for him would've better.

It's the right move, IMO, because Prior has been soaking up pay since 2005, and hasn't made 30 since 2003. Also, though I could be wrong, I believe that Prior got really tired of the pressure that Chicago media and fans put on him. The expectations surrounding Prior -and the fact that Hendry continued to build the starting rotation around Woody and Prior- were the reasons for all of the pressure. Therefore, I think he got tired of being a Cub and no longer wanted to be one.

We can all speculate, but the truth is that the Cubs have invested a lot of time, money, and hope into Mark Prior, and, unlike Wood, Prior doesn't feel the need to be loyal to the organization or the fans. The Cubs wanted to sign him to a one-year contract with an option so that -maybe, just maybe- they might be able to get a return on their longtime investment. He wouldn't do it.

End of story

by Mark H on Dec 13, 2007 10:44 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Prior
Now that Prior is gone, I am sure he will make a complete recovery win 20 and a Cy Young, and beat the Cubs twice in the WS.

by DA4528 on Dec 13, 2007 11:27 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

As long
as the Cubs win four of the WS games, I couldn't care less what Prior does.
This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

by HectorVillanueva on Dec 13, 2007 12:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How sweet would this be?
We can get a Wood vs. Prior pitching duel depending on where he signs and if they're both healthy.  That would be a not to miss game.

by ak123 on Dec 13, 2007 4:34 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

At one time
Mark was my favorite player. We got to see him rehab in Des Moines and I got some awesome pictures of him pitching. I wish things could have ended differently but that is life.

I guess I should retire my #22 Prior t-shirt now.

"But being a nasty hateful person she can't help herself." KOW

by sue369 on Dec 13, 2007 6:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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