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Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

It's Pronounced "koh-skay foo-koo-DOUGH-may"

thanks to BCB reader initram for the rendering; it's generally accepted that he'll ask for his Cub jersey to look like this, instead of with his last name. I think you can figure out the reason!

The title of this post is something you should read and practice a few times; that's the generally accepted pronunciation of the Cubs' new right fielder, signed last night to a four-year, $48 million contract.

I'm very, very happy. This is exactly the kind of player the Cubs have needed for a long time -- a plus defensive outfielder with a good batting eye who could put up a .390 OBA (maybe in the #2 batting order slot), have midrange power and hit in the .290-.300 area. The money isn't unreasonable in today's market and neither is the length of the deal.

Linkage: Bruce Miles, Daily Herald. Gordon Wittenmyer, Sun-Times. Paul Sullivan, Tribune. No fewer than six BCB diaries on this and related topics. Oh, and the Padres fans still hate us, even more after this signing.

Here is an excellent wiki-style entry on Fukudome from Dan Lewis at Armchair GM; it has an extensive history of Fukudome's career, including many links and eight embedded video clips.

I may have to get myself one of those jerseys myownself. Word is the Cubs are still in the Brian Roberts derby -- if they got him, we could all relax, enjoy the holidays, and get excited about spring training and the 2008 season. Let's try to keep the discussion today in this thread; I'll update it later today if/when a news conference day and time is announced.

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Definitely
a nice bit of news to wake up to this fine morning.

Go Cubs!

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Dec 12, 2007 4:25 AM CST reply actions  

Actually Al
You've got the pronunciation of his first name wrong.

When a U is in the middle of a word in Japanese, it is generally dropped in spoken Japanese.  

It should be "Koh-skay."  Just like Daisuke is pronounced "Dice-K"  (Although actually that should be Di-skay)

Baseball Prospectus subscribers can check Mike Plugh of "Matsuzaka Watch" fame writing about him last July.  He gives the correct pronunciation as what I wrote.  You have Fukudome correct.

I don't speak Japanese, except that I have to admit a few years ago I watched a ton of anime and picked some stuff up.  

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 12, 2007 4:40 AM CST reply actions  

Thanks for this.
I'll change it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 4:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Cannot wait...
for the first time Ron Santo tries to pronouce the name.
wccubfan

by wccubfan on Dec 12, 2007 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

re: Cannot wait...
I've had this exact thought a few times over the past couple weeks. This will add another level of hilarity to the Hughes-Santo radio experience.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I was wondering about that
because my son, who is studying Japanese, corrected me on my pronunciation of Daisuke last summer. He said you sort of barely pronounce the "u" with a brief "uh" sound, and that they don't really put a stress on any one syllable.
Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Dec 12, 2007 5:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Also
I'm not sure he wants the burden of #1 with the Cubs.  The last two Cubs to wear it were Tony Womack and Jose Macias.  :-)
The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 12, 2007 4:43 AM CST reply actions  

and who can forget Lance Johnson...
Well, most of us... :)
Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Dec 12, 2007 6:31 AM CST up reply actions  

One-Dog!!!
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 12, 2007 7:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Cubs who wore #1
The Cubs started wearing uniform numbers in the 1932 season. Here is a list of those players, managers, and coaches who donned #1 since 1932:

Woody English(1932-36)
Charlie Grimm (m) (1937-38)
Jimmy Wilson (m) (1941-42)
Bill Serena (1954)
Jim Fanning (1955-57)
Richie Ashburn (1960-61)
Mel Wright (c) (1971)
Jose Cardinal (1972-77)
Cookie Rojas (c & player) (1978-81)
Larry Bowa (1982-85)
Dave Martinez (1986-88, 2000)
Rick Wrona (1988-90)
Doug Strange (1991-92)
Tommy Shields(1993)
Doug Glanville (1996-97)
Lance Johnson (1997-99)
Augie Ojeda (2001-03)
Kenny Lofton (2003)
Jose Macias (2004-2005)
Tony Womack (2006)

reference:
All Time Chicago Cub Uniform Number List
http://ignarski.tripod.com/temprost.html

by flachimesa on Dec 12, 2007 9:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Your Welcome
(it's always nice to see someone using the information that I put up on the web)

Kasey

See the Cubs 2008 schedule at http://ignarski.tripod.com/sched2008.html

by kaseyi on Dec 12, 2007 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

BTW, the auhor
of the "All Time Chicago Cub Uniform Number List" website referenced above is a BCB member and contributor (kaseyi). Thanks Kasey Ignarski.

by flachimesa on Dec 12, 2007 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

What a list.
A couple of good players (Bowa and Ashburn) who were way past their best years by the time they got to the Cubs.

A couple of coaches and a manager.

A couple of players who had a decent year or so as a Cub (Martinez, Lofton, L. Johnson).

A cuddly teddy bear (Ojeda).

And a bunch of no-names.

Fukudome will change the perception of the uniform #1 the moment he first steps on the field.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Ahhh...Jose Cardenal
As Mike Royko once described him, he "...could sleep between pitches."

by MN exile on Dec 12, 2007 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

I saw Doug Glanville
steal home once at Candlestick.  Or was it Brian McRae?
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" -Homer J. Simpson

by Whitebacon on Dec 12, 2007 8:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Jeez, I almost forgot
The only down side is that Chunichi gets our first round draft pick next season.
The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 12, 2007 4:44 AM CST reply actions  

Ah..... like we were gonna do something
good with that pick anyway?
Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 12, 2007 7:47 AM CST up reply actions  

4:30? Sleep Much?
Al, I hope for your sake you are travelling (hmm, Japan perhaps), and not regularly up and working at 4:30.

In any event, excitin news re Kosuke.  This is already a good team, so every little piece extra we get helps.

by Orval Overall on Dec 12, 2007 5:11 AM CST reply actions  

LOL
I wish I were going there. But no, I AM regularly up and at work at 4:30 am.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 8:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow. Very exciting news and I am
traveling with a guy from San Diego today, so I get to gloat about beating them out today as he is a huge Padres fan.  

For one day, an off season victory that we can celebrate!  Let's hope the Cubs keep on improving the team as we move towards Arizona baseball.

Is today the day they make a decision about Mark Prior's contract?

I can't wait for 2008!

by LAcarl519 on Dec 12, 2007 5:39 AM CST reply actions  

Prior...
... as well as anyone else who is under the team's control, must be tendered a contract by midnight tonight. So yes, today is decision day for him, too.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 8:49 AM CST up reply actions  

should Prior
surprise us all and accept a one-year deal with an option, I, for one, will be happy to take back a lot of the bad things I said about him.

by elgato on Dec 12, 2007 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh this is very, very nice
Now let's see what else Jim has up his sleeve to make Lou happy for Christmas. Is it too greedy to ask for Roberts and Bedard? That should make Lou (and us) giddy with anticipation.
Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 12, 2007 5:39 AM CST reply actions  

WELCOME TO THE FUKUDOME!!!!
Can we get Chuck D of Public Enemy to do a theme song?

Very excited about the signing.  It shows that despite the impending sale and the uncertainty that comes with that, the front office is at least still trying to put the pieces in place.

I think I'll have sushi today to celebrate.

by AlabamaCubFan on Dec 12, 2007 5:49 AM CST reply actions  

Lineup so far for next season
Soriano LF
Pie CF
Lee 1b
Fukudome RF
Ramirez 3b
Derosa 2b
Soto C
Theriot SS

and think of the possibilities if we get Roberts. This now makes a hand full of outfielders tradeable (aka Murton)

Live is boring until March 31st strolls by..

by Chanman25 on Dec 12, 2007 6:10 AM CST reply actions  

I think they'd switch Pie and Theriot...
For now at least:

Soriano
Theriot
Lee
Ramirez
Fukudome
DeRosa
Soto
Pie

If we get Roberts, it'd probably be:

Soriano
Roberts
Lee
Ramirez
Fukudome
Soto
Theriot
Pie

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2007 7:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Can't we move Soriano to an RBI slot?
Forget the bunk about "he's comfortable in the #1 spot" . . . if Roberts comes, he should leadoff.

How about

Roberts
Pie (assuming he sticks)
Lee
Ramirez
Soriano
Fukudome
Soto
Theriot

Of course, the rotation is still shaky . . .

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 12, 2007 7:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Move Pie to the bottom until he hits
Put Fukudome at #2
Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 12, 2007 7:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep.
I think my distaste for Pie is well documented here at BCB, but I can't see batting him anywhere other than 8 or 9 until he figures out where the MLB strike zone is
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 12, 2007 8:12 AM CST up reply actions  

ninth?
What, Pie is going to provide protection so no one can pitch around Lilly and Hill?

by elgato on Dec 12, 2007 9:17 AM CST up reply actions  

No
Just when Z pitches

by TheHawk5 on Dec 12, 2007 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd bat Rick Allen above him
(for those of you who know who that is, that may be funny)

Lilly and Z can hit, and hopefully Hill can figure out how to at least hold the bat and maybe sell a fake bunt or something

"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 12, 2007 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

re: I'd bat Rick Allen above him
Sing it with me, people:

All we are saying
is give Felix a chance...

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

how about
theriot
fukudome
lee
ramirez
soriano
derosa
pie
soto

by slocs55 on Dec 12, 2007 8:18 AM CST up reply actions  

I wasn't saying what I'd do...
I was saying what it seems like Piniella will do.  Ultimately, we can envision whatever lineup we want, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that Piniella wants to move Soriano down.

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2007 8:24 AM CST up reply actions  

I would like that
and I'll guarantee it happens if the Cubs get Roberts.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 12, 2007 8:48 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree about Pie . . . .
I just had him higher because there were a bunch of righties in a row when I was cobbling it together.  Goes against the whole "stop the pitcher from settling in" that I don't really buy into anyway.

Last week's rumor about Figgins for CF was interesting -- too bad it didn't appear to have legs.

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 12, 2007 9:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Roberts Is Key...
... without him, and barring any other speedster that we may go after (Figgins), Soriano will continue to lead off.

With Roberts, Soriano will drop down in the order.  No question about it.  Piniella mentioned this.  

That said, any thoughts on Lee batting 4th and Fukudome batting 3rd, or something like this?

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/comments/2007/12/11/23212/619/158#158

(with other commentary)

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Now let's get some pitching.......
.....The heck with Roberts, let's get a starter. I'm still trying to figure out what DeRosa did to deserve all this talk about another second baseman. If the Cubs are talking about Dempster to be the 5th starter, then they need to get somebody else.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Dec 12, 2007 7:09 AM CST reply actions  

Maybe, maybe not
Don't think DeRo 'did' anything. Roberts can hit lefty, he's faster - much faster - than DeRo and it can be argued he's a little better in the field. BA and OBP should be on par with DeRo.

I've mentioned this before. Why not Bedard? Media says Cubs aren't intersted? Huh? This stemmed from someone's diary about a Tiger's-like mega-deal. Got me thinking; Roberts AND Bedard.

I posted more detail in another diary this morning on this topic. Now that Fukudome is "Coming to America", I'd absolutely love to see Jimbo pull-off this deal and make Lou very, very happy.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 12, 2007 7:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Amen brother
Basically the consensus is that Dempster and/or Marquis are worth to our rotation than DeRosa is to our starting lineup.  I don't get it, and Derosa also agrees, citing an interview on Monday in which he claimed he doesn't always feel comfortable spot starting (specifically in the outfield) and indeed would take it personal if the Cubs signed Roberts.  Now I know we're not in the feel good business here, but let me present you w/ this and this is just an inclination but what if Roberts' name pops up on the Mitchell Report tomorrow.  Do we all of a sudden lose interest and tell DeRosa hey man we were just yanking your chain, no love lost?
"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Dec 12, 2007 9:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Where Did You Hear This Interview?
The interviews my father has heard on (likely) Score 670 and ESPN 1000 have said the exact opposite.

DeRosa has stated that he will play whereever Piniella wanted him to play.  He wants to stay a part of this team.  He is living a dream... playing baseball for the best team on the planet -- the Chicago Cubs.

Now, as a business man, I am sure most players will say this about our team.  Most of the time you can tell when a player is being genuine; I think DeRosa is genuine here.

One thing I heard on 670 was something I believe in: every team needs a (super-)sub.  What team would have a better one if the Cubs could have DeRosa play this role?  This should not be considered a bad thing, but rather a huge compliment.  DeRosa is versatile enough that he can do it -- and this was one of the main reasons why he was signed last year.

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

re: Where Did You Hear This Interview?
I agree, and I would like to see some corroboration for any claims that DeRosa is demanding to be a starter. Seems to me, he's too intelligent of a player not to recognize the importance of his own versatility.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 9:55 AM CST up reply actions  

I heard it on ESPN,,,
Yes DeRosa stated that he is willing to play wherever he's needed, and I completely agree he is the consummate professional, but he Also stated that he thinks his performance last year warrants more than just a 'SuperSub' role.  He said he doesn't have a problem moving around but his fear is that he may be trapped into playing in the outfield for more than his liking, b/c he feels much more valuable as an infielder.  He also said that he would consider himself the 'odd man out' and and that although he is open to doing whatever makes the team better it would be hard to not take it personally if Roberts came over and is designated the starter which obviously would severely limit his playing time at 2B, the position he's obviously most comfortable at.
"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Dec 12, 2007 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

I didn't hear
any recent interview, but in every interview I've seen in the past with DeRosa, he's said "I signed here to be the regular second baseman but I'm happy to do whatever the team wants me to do to help us win."

That's his Ivy League education shining through. A carefully crafted statement.  Translated: "I want to play second base but more importantly, I just want to play.  If they want me to play somewhere else, that's OK."

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 12, 2007 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

So you think...
He should take it as a compliment that he may be replaced and his playing time will be minimized.  And I'm not shooting down any Roberts deal but my question is whether or not he is that much of an upgrade at 2B over DeRosa; and if so, then let it be.  I'm merely trying to look at the situation from DeRosa's perspective who himself said the situation has him 'concerned definitely.'  As for corroboration, I'll look for the podcast.
"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Dec 12, 2007 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm very excited about this.
Not least of all, because Japanese is fun to shout.  

"FUKUDOME!"

Before each game, please remember to feed the bats.

by Cool Hand on Dec 12, 2007 7:26 AM CST reply actions  

Got Him!!!!!
Good job Jim Hendry!
Cubs Win!! Cubs Win!

by Ihatethecards on Dec 12, 2007 7:33 AM CST reply actions  

Happy they got him, but . . .
More like good job, Crane Kenney.  All Hendry did was throw money that someone else gave him.  Let's see if he improves the pitching staff . . . then I'll give him credit.

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 12, 2007 7:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah right
At least give Hendry credit for one day before bashing him again.  What did Kenney do other that say spend the money and maybe review the contract?    

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 9:31 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think I was bashing Hendry
But how is this a stragetic decision, or requiring superior talent evaluation?  You could have done the same thing, without (I suspect) the years of professional baseball experience.

I don't think that I've ever bashed Hendry on this site (I have on the Trib), but since you asked,

Rusch, Marquis, a trio of Perez, Enrique Wilson and Macias at the same time (!), going after Matsui, Maddux for Izturis, Kendall . . .

Yes, Hendry's made some good acquisitions, but by and large after the 2003-2004 offseason, he's become fixated with mediocre players or players who are past their prime -- or both.

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 12, 2007 9:46 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm not a big Hendry defender
as I think he does have some flaws primarily that he seems to be a little more reactive than proactive as times and doesn't always seem to have a plan.  Still to counter some of your points since 2004:
  • Lilly was a lot better signing than Zito or Schmidt who many people wanted.
  • Walker for Ceda and Bynum for Hart were pretty good dumps for cheap prospects that look pretty good.
  • Rusch wasn't a bad pitcher for 2 of his 3 years in Chicago.  In fact, in 2004 you could say he was good with an ERA+ of 124 and a 6-2 record as a swing man including 16 starts.
  • Maddux for Izturis to me is a non-issue.  He wasn't going to get Kemp or Ethier in that deal.  Maybe he could have gotten a better prospect but I don't know what the offers were.  The Dodgers seem to value their better prospects and don't seem to trade them.
  • Kendall gave the Cubs want they expected.  His defense was poor but offensively .270/.362/.356 was about what you would expect.  He didn't cost them much.  It's not like there are many catchers available midseason.  I don't think anyone could have predicted the complete Barrett meltdown after the 2006 season he had.    
  • He has resigned the Cubs free agents that he wanted.  Ramirez' deal especially appeared to be below market.
  • To some extent I think he was hampered by the tight Tribune purse strings.  They seemed to open them up last year.
           

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Fair enough
I will admit to being wrong about Lilly and his 1.14 WHIP (although until he shows otherwise, 2007 was a career year -- far and away better than what he'd ever done) and the less splashy trades that you mentioned could turn out just fine (at the risk of starting more controversy, just dumping Walker and his attitude was worth it).

Rusch had a great 2004, but he was always a journeyman, and giving him 2 years (or Perez) was not necessary.  Same for 3 years for Jones.

Not sure that I agree about the Trib's purse strings -- a lot of teams during the last 25 years won more games with lower payrolls.  They spent money -- just not correctly.

Hendry probably isn't the total idiot that some make him out to be, but he's not the Branch Rickey that others like to think he is, either.

I'll give him this -- he appears to be listening to Piniella, who I think has had a MAJOR influence on the composition of the roster.  And I'm glad KF is a Cub -- it's a potential high upside with relatively low risk.

OBP.  Wow.  What a concept!  Now let's get a starter or two . . . .

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 12, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Cool comment in Sullivan's Trib article today
One of Fukudome's biggest boosters is Cubs broadcaster Ron Santo, who now has the envious task of trying to pronounce his name without incurring any fines from the FCC.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-071211cubs,1,1236143.story?coll=cs-c ubs-headlines

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 12, 2007 7:45 AM CST reply actions  

Oh, if Harry was still around
that would make for some pretty wild pronunciation momonts
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 12, 2007 7:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Kosuke Fukudome spelled backwards is...
... Emodukuf Ekusok.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 8:07 AM CST up reply actions  

I can hear it now
Eee-MO-due....cuff......

Eee-kooo....suck.

"Boy Steve, I sure hope that doesn't sound as bad as I think it does.  Hey Arne, take a look at all those boats out there on the lake.  What a great day at beautiful Wrigley Field.  Two and oh on the handsome young Japanese right fielder, runner on 2nd, 1 out, Cubs leading 4 nothing."

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 12, 2007 8:12 AM CST up reply actions  

A beautiful vision
I can just see it. Man, I can't wait.

by NWIowaCubFan on Dec 12, 2007 9:17 AM CST up reply actions  

MOIS-AY

"MOISSSAAY Alou
Moiseeey ALooo"

"HIDEEEEEOH NOMO
HIDEAAAAA NOMO"

"DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY!"

by IowaCubs- on Dec 12, 2007 9:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Ahhh, Harry...
Fernando Valenzuava pitching to Hector Villenzuala :)

by Mark H @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 12, 2007 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Hector Millnanaveva
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 12, 2007 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Lol...
Yeah, somethin' like that :). As I remember, Hector homered off of Valenzuala, but listening to Harry try to get those two names straight was a riot.

by Mark H @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 12, 2007 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Man, Padres fans absolutely hate
the Cubs and everything that is Cubs.  They are posting ways how Kosuke should die, real mature guys, you should be proud of yourselves.  
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 12, 2007 7:55 AM CST reply actions  

They can take a long walk off a short pier.
Try being a Cubs fan in San Diego.  You can't even walk into Petco without some jerk shouting "84!!!!"

The point is, their organization is a joke.  I know they have managed to win a bit recently, but they have done nothing in the playoffs since '98.  If you want your only fond playoff memories to be getting destroyed in the '98 and '84 World Series, be my guest.

They have fantastic pitching.  I know this.  Their offense was a joke last year, and it will probably be even worse this year.

Don't blame the Cubs for John Moores' unwillingness to sign someone who can actually hit the ball.

by Kornchex on Dec 12, 2007 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Geez...
 What did the Padres fans expect? Sandy blessing a bidding war? With the Cubs no less? The hypocrisy alone in that is enough to make him pass. They should be estatic with locking up Peavy, leave it at that.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 12, 2007 8:07 AM CST reply actions  

Does that mean they'd be jumping
off the bridge to Coronado Island if the ChiSox outbid them?!
Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 12, 2007 8:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Padres fans are irrational
about the Cubs, and I have no idea why. They usually beat the crap out of the Cubs, and are able to continue to dangle '1984' in front of us, and they still print up retro "Cubbuster" T-Shirts  from the NLCS of that era every now and then.

Their 'enemies' should be the Dodgers and the Giants, by any stretch of the imagination. But perhaps they resent the fact Cubs fans fill up Petco every year when the team comes to town.

Whatever. They've been to the World Series more times in the past 30 years than we have, but still, they whine about the "Cubs." Their ire should be directed at owner John Moores.

The small-market mentality -- it persists here, and shows no signs of letting up.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 12, 2007 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

I haven't been
to Petco, but when I last went to Qualcomm to see the Cubs in 2003, I don't think I actually saw any Padres fans.  Heh, heh.

I'm almost being serious.  In the section I was sitting in, in the lower section down the third base line, there were zero Padres fans.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 12, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

It means Murton is traded
for a player with no more value than old White Sox prospect Chris Carter.  He's rumored in packages to the O's and Royals.

I also hear the Padres are looking for an OF.

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 12, 2007 8:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Murton...
... could bring value if sent to the Orioles in a package for Roberts.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 8:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Would that mean
the BCB 'Orange Guy' cult would have to commit mass sepuku?

by JFCubFan on Dec 12, 2007 9:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Murton Was Supposedly...
... in a preliminary offer for Roberts, and the O's did not want him.

FWIW.

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 9:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed
I don't see Hendry giving Murton away. He's too young and talented, and he could be a solid piece in a bigger deal.

by Mark H @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 12, 2007 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Nate Silver weighs in at BP Unfiltered
I am pretty sure Unfiltered is free for non-subscribers: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=699

As well as projecting Fukudome to hit .289/.401/.504 which is better than most of the projections in the BCB thread on the topic, he also suggests a lineup I am not hearing anywhere else a lineup he says "could easily be the best in the National League":

Fukudome, RF
DeRosa, 2B
Lee, 1B
Ramirez, 3B
Soriano, LF
Soto, C
Pie, CF
Cedeno, SS

Rosenthal also posts a lineup at Foxsports which we are not seeing anywhere else for good reason:

Roberts/Figgins, 2B
Fukudome, RF
Derrek Lee, 1B
Aramis Ramirez, 3B
Soriano, LF
Ryan Theriot, SS
Geovany Soto, C
Felix Pie/Sam Fuld, CF

I just don't get why everyone wants to bat Soriano 5th behind Aramis Ramirez.  We've done the whole Soriano bats .100 OPS points better from the leadoff hole thing here before, but besides that, if you are going to move him down, why put him after Ramirez where his ability to use his speed is hampered?

If I had to move Soriano out of the leadoff hole, let's say someone held a Sun-Times to my head and threatened to read aloud 5 hours of He Who Must Not Be Read, then I might look at

Roberts
Lee
Soriano
Fukudome
Ramirez
Soto
Theriot/Cedeno
Pie

(I'm adding Roberts name here because the only way Sori moves from the leadoff spot is if there is another leadoff hitter in-house who has less SLG than Sori.)  How many runs does that actually gain you over hitting Lee 3rd, Sori 1st, and Roberts 2nd?

All I am saying is give Pie a chance!

by DGU on Dec 12, 2007 8:07 AM CST reply actions  

.401 OBA, .504 SLG?
Wow. We'd take that in a heartbeat. Even if each of those were 25-30 points lower, we'd still take it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 8:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd be shocked by those numbers...
those are better numbers than what Matsui has put up in MLB, and Matsui was unequivocally a better hitter than Fukudome.

Anything in the .800-.850 OPS range would seem reasonable to me.  If he hit .900+, I'd be VERY pleasantly shocked.

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2007 8:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Shocked?
Just remember that Fukudome is the first Japanese high-profile starter to join the National League.....Matsui started off by facing (arguably) superior AL pitching.

Not saying that Fukudome posts numbers as good as those projected above, but I don't think its inconceivable that Fukudome reaches those numbers, even if they are better than what Matsui acheived...

by Chadnudj on Dec 12, 2007 9:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Second actually...
Kaz Matsui came over as a very high-profile Japanes player who hit 20-30 HR per year in Japan.  And I don't think that AL pitching is superior.  AL hitting is superior (thanks to the DH), but AL pitching is, I'd say, pretty much comparable across leagues.  I'll buy the argument that a pitcher will do substantially better switching to the NL, but not the argument for a hitter.  Thus, I'll be shocked if Fukudome puts up those numbers.

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2007 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think that's true...
...and there are studies to prove it. The big issue is the "big-money" AL clubs (Yankees, Red Sox, etc.) are poaching the prime NL pitching talent. A good illustration of this is Nate Silver showing us how Miggy's PECOTA projection drops going to the AL. He says the talent gap in pitching between the leagues means roughly a 25-30 OPS difference, and tack on another 20-30 because the NL has a lot more hitter-friendly parks.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, let's back off on prove there.
"Suggests with a favorable reading" is more like it.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Judging by that math
It would be frivalous for you and other Cub fans on this board to keep comparing Hill's numbers to Bedard's numbers.

 I wonder what Bedard's predicted numbers would be pitching in the anemic NL Central (more specifically, pitching for the Cubs)

 While you're at it, see if you can find Hill's predicted numbers would be pitching in the AL East (more specifically pitching for the Orioles)

Thanks.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Dec 12, 2007 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I actually like Rosenthal's lineup
Theriot in front of Soto; even if Pie is a near-automatic out, he's on base for Roberts and/or F-Bomb. Not bad.
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 12, 2007 8:17 AM CST up reply actions  

I should have said
THEY are on for Roberts and/or F-Bomb.

But what's the Figgins thing all about?

"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 12, 2007 8:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Who's the not must be read person?
Mariotti? He's great read. Even if he's inflammatory at times. He's a columnist, it's his job; magnify or create controversy.

As for the lineup, I would guess Pie is gone if Roberts is here; just over a 50-50 chance.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 12, 2007 8:21 AM CST up reply actions  

What isn't a great read
Cheap shots, vascillating, plagarism, sanctimoniousness . . . .
other than that, he's great.

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 12, 2007 9:15 AM CST up reply actions  

re: Nate Silver weighs in at BP Unfiltered
I agree. Batting Theriot behind Soriano would be a big mistake. If Soriano is moved down in the lineup, he must be protected by a formidable hitter. Otherwise, opposing pitchers will just throw him the breaking junk to which he all too easily (and often) falls prey.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 8:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Which is exactly why...
... Fukudome hitting 2nd behind Soriano would work quite well.

We have endlessly debated whether Soriano should be moved down in the lineup. The bottom line on this is: he's got his mind made up that he hits better leadoff, and there is some evidence that this is true. Whether he might drive in more runs hitting elsewhere is irrelevant; the fact is, Soriano IS going to hit leadoff. Thus, I think we should, in discussing lineup construction, assume that and continue from there.

(And I wouldn't hit Pie anywhere but 8th, either.)

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 8:41 AM CST up reply actions  

re: Which is exactly why...
I agree with this, too. If there's one thing we learned about Soriano this past season is: You put him where he's comfortable, you enjoy his production and explosions of power, and you live with his strikeouts. Is this an approach a baseball organization should take with every player? Of course not. But it's an exception worth granting to a player like Soriano.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 8:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Jersey...
thanks to BCB reader initram for the rendering; it's generally accepted that he'll ask for his Cub jersey to look like this, instead of with his last name. I think you can figure out the reason!

What is the reason? This is the only picture I could find of him with the Dragons and he's rocking "Fukudome" on his jersey.

by seang03 on Dec 12, 2007 8:15 AM CST reply actions  

Ah, its semantics
Personally I'd vote for his last name on the jersey but if he wants his first, OK too.

Take a look at that smooth step, the ability to fully extend or keep his arms in, planting the lead foot and awesome hip torque with a smooth swing.

Oooh baby, that high OBP!

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 12, 2007 8:19 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't care if it says
"Pierzynski" on the back - as long as it says "Cubs" on the front!
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 12, 2007 8:20 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd probably vote...
...for Fukudome too. I don't really care I'm just curious as to what he would wear because I'm probably getting the authentic road jersey.

by seang03 on Dec 12, 2007 8:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Right, but...
... seeing "FUKUDOME" on a jersey in Japan wouldn't have the same connotation as it would seeing it in the USA. Can you imagine what the White Sox fans would say about that?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 8:24 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm guessing it goes something like...
..."Kenny, I'm really starting to feel like this relationship is a one-way street. Things were great a few years ago, but it seems to have slowed down recently. You haven't bought me anything nice, either! The Cubs got an outfielder. Aren't I good enough for an outfielder? It's so damned embarassing to go out in public anymore!"
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 9:36 AM CST up reply actions  

We Should All Know Soon Enough...
... when we see him put on his uniform during next week's press conference.

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Very happy
to hear this before I went to bed last night. I just hope the fans give him time to make adjustments here before they start booing him and calling him names.
"But being a nasty hateful person she can't help herself." KOW

by sue369 on Dec 12, 2007 8:23 AM CST reply actions  

FOOOOOOOOO....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
....KOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....DOEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....MAYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Our long national nightmare is finally over. Welcome, Kosuke!!!

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 8:25 AM CST reply actions  

happy day
What great news. I would be pretty upset if I were a Sox fan (off subject). Jim has accomplished his main goal this off-season. Now all we need to do is get another quality starter, move Soriano down and get Z to cut down on his walks...that would be a complete team that has a legitimate shot at it all.

Why are we still trying to replace Derosa? I know it would be nice to have the "super-sub" thing going, but doesn't he deserve the job? Please someone explain to me why he is not automatically penciled in at 2nd. Its not like he can't play a bit at 3rd, 1st and RF if necessary.

by slocs55 on Dec 12, 2007 8:26 AM CST reply actions  

Mission Accomplished

You're doing a heckava job Jimmy!!

Old Style is the nectar of life.

by Mordecai on Dec 12, 2007 8:33 AM CST reply actions  

Please , don't make
me puke by ruining the moment!
Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 12, 2007 8:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Dubya's claim of victory
was juuust a little premature, here - let's hope Hendry doesn't make the same multitude of mistakes by getting ahead of himself, too.
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 12, 2007 9:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I am still amazed that people think...
that ceremony/banner was insinuating that the "war" was over. The aircraft carrier's crew and battle group had returned home from their particular "mission" (which they successfully completed)...hence the banner.

P.S. - I drive an S.U.V.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 12, 2007 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Not to get into politics too much, but
do you think that's REALLY what was insinuated by that banner? A ship returning home?

The statement made via the banner - per Dubya - was that major combat operations in Iraq had ceased. On May 1st, 2003. Definitely not the case.

That said - how 'bout them Cubbies?!?

"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 12, 2007 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe we'll get treated
to Jim Hendry accentuating his junk at the press conference.
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Dec 12, 2007 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Love that quote, Ryno
Hawk is such a homer. Never seen the Sox make a bad play, or get a good call. Can't stand him
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 12, 2007 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm all for B-Rob
As a USC graduate, would be nice to have a fellow alum on the Cubs.  Although as a DC resident, I'll miss being able to drive up the road and watch him in person.  Guess I'll just have to settle for watching him on WGN / MLBTV everyday instead!

by USCKB on Dec 12, 2007 8:37 AM CST reply actions  

Do not hold your
breath, here. We are talking about Peter Angelos. I'm perfectly fine with DeRosa, provided Soriano can still run.
Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 12, 2007 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Al- you handicapped it
early in the game! Good for you, dude!

I heard an interview with Mark DeRo which was referred to by a couple posters - from ESPN 1000, a couple days ago.

He understands how good Brian Roberts is, but really is not interested in playing the OF. Its a tough spot for him, and I like the guy quite a bit.

It was his admission that getting AB's with the upgrades the team now has, and possibly could get with Roberts, will be very challenging. I hope in the worst way he is not traded as he is like our own Jose Oquendo, only better!  

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 12, 2007 8:43 AM CST reply actions  

About DeRosa...
... he can play 2B, SS, 3B, RF (and I assume if he can play RF, he could probably play LF, too). Let's say the Cubs get Roberts. What if you gave DeRosa 20 or so starts at all those positions? Then he plays 100 games as "super-sub", getting well over 400 at-bats, and is still mostly a contributing regular.

He played this role quite well for the Rangers in 2006.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 8:48 AM CST up reply actions  

doubt he'll start at short that often
How about 25 games at the four other positions?

by elgato on Dec 12, 2007 9:21 AM CST up reply actions  

everyday guy
I'd love for Derosa to be an everyday guy. I think he is an integral part of the team.

He had the third most RBI (72), 4th highest BA among the regulars (.293).

But yes, his versatility and the fact he can play nearly every position is his biggest asset.

by Willgly on Dec 12, 2007 9:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'd like to see him as an everyday guy.
And, I think he deserves it. He played such an important role in the team last year. I mean, where would we have been without him. Also, he really blossomed once he had a chance -for the first time in his career- to play every day with the Rangers. And, he carried that over into last year. He's performed much better as a starter than as a sub. Don't get me wrong...I'd love to have Roberts. I just think DeRosa deserves a starting role. The Cubs do need some speed, so I wouldn't be upset about it. I just think DeRosa's a starting player and a class act.

by Mark H @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 12, 2007 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

dero....hmm
i understand a guy being upset that his role may be reduced a little bit, but isnt one of the main reasons people like the guy so much is because he's perceived as a "team player."  a guy who is all about the team would be happy to move around if it is going to make the team better.  even if you're a little disapointed, i would have expected him to be a little more upbeat in public about a better cubs team.  complaining about playing the outfield?  its not like this guy is going to land another big contract in his career, i would have hoped hed be more concerned about winning a championship than aprehensive about losing a fly ball in the sun in right field next summer.
Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Dec 12, 2007 9:25 AM CST up reply actions  

If you missed the interview
I think you're misconstruing what he was discussing.

The guy is a competitor. He himself stated that's he's a team player first during the interview. He felt that there was chemistry developing betw. ss & 2B with he and The Riot, but realizes he wants the team to be stronger.

Also, he realizes his play on the field is not too shabby.

He was not in any stretch "whining", but being very candid, which I for one, really appreciate. I have no problem with someone who is reluctant to give up their job when they can "bring it" too.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 12, 2007 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Loud, sustained applause.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed
When he signed, he wanted to play second base.  In all likelihood, he probably feels that second is his best position.  

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

did not hear the interview
i was replying mainly to you saying dersoa "is not interested in playing the outfield"

and i dont know why "whining" was in quotes, i never said he was whining, again, just going off of what you had said from the interview.  it definitely struck me as odd, because i had viewed derosa as a "team guy" as most do.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Dec 12, 2007 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

DeRosa's role
DeRosa is one of my favorites, and I would love to see him start everygame.  I also think that Brian Roberts brings a lot of good things to the Cubs.

I think if Roberts comes in and takes the starting 2B job that DeRosa's role is more like the ultimate insurance policy against injury.  Sure he'll still get his "super-utility" at bats and plenty of pinch hitting. But he could easily fill injury gaps at 1B, 2B, 3B, LF and RF, leaving only CF, SS and C backup roles to be filled.

I think having a starting quality backup that is so versitile is huge.  I would have felt a lot better if DeRosa was around when DLee was hurt.

Not many teams have a guys like DeRosa, and not many players would have the mental makeup to flourish in that role.  Sure Derosa wants to start but I think he's the kind of team first player who will accept the role, and probably end up playing full time when some one goes down.

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Dec 12, 2007 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

To continue my earlier posts....
Here is a link to interview in question:

http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/espnradio1000/sectional?id=wspodcasts

It's from the Mon. Dec 12 show.

I think serves as corroboration for both me and The Eman.

"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Dec 12, 2007 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Correction: Monday, December 10th Show
"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Dec 12, 2007 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Is this big news or what?
The "Fukudome has been signed" diary count currently stands at: 6
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 8:45 AM CST reply actions  

Yeah no kidding -
I was waiting for someone else - especially Al - to say something about that...
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 12, 2007 9:01 AM CST up reply actions  

I already did.
Read the main post.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 9:03 AM CST up reply actions  

re: I already did.
D'oh! I missed that, too. Ah, well...I'm not necessarily complaining about all the diaries. I'm so happy right now, even a flurry of KOW diaries couldn't get me down.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 9:08 AM CST up reply actions  

LMAO
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 9:12 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm glad the Padre's hate us.
A little payback for what they did to us in 1984. Yes I have a long memory.
A good day for me is a cubs win and a sox loss.

by diehardmark on Dec 12, 2007 8:56 AM CST reply actions  

Absolutely!
I couldn't agree more.  KAR-MA

by AlabamaCubFan on Dec 12, 2007 9:08 AM CST up reply actions  

84 and 07
There's payback coming and I hope Fukudome calls a HR off that big ox Young or maybe Wells .. oh, Davey boy there anymore.

Oh well.

Payback's a monster ain't it.

And I hope Soriano dances all over the place next time we see them.

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Dec 12, 2007 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, sorry Padres fans...
...Here's one crocodile tear for ya, Steve Garvey.  
"DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY!"

by IowaCubs- on Dec 12, 2007 9:11 AM CST reply actions  

Yay!
I am really excited about this. I think this is a huge win for the Cubs...

A lineup of Soriano, Kosuke, Lee, Ramirez, Derosa, Soto, Theriot, Pie would be pretty sweet... getting Roberts and moving Soriano down in the order a bit would be even better!

 

by Willgly on Dec 12, 2007 9:15 AM CST reply actions  

Al, i think you mischaracterized
the sentiment of padres fans, it is not:

Oh, and the Padres fans still hate us, even more after this signing.

Some padre fans probably dislike cub fans in general, but i'm pretty sure the padre fan sentiment is disappointment in the "fairness" of major league baseball. The rational reaction anyway. Sure, you may get a couple of irrational reactions to blame the fans of another franchise but using that would be a dishonest way to characterize a general sentiment.

Simple geographics have the dodgers, angels, cubs, red sox and yankees as more capable of competing than other clubs. It's only greed and incompetence that doesn't have all of these teams constantly dominating.

Don't you think it's completely reasonable to express frustration at the two levels of baseball economics at play here?

The brewers need an outfielder, too, but they were never in the fukudome sweepstakes because it was clear that overpaying for him was required. I think this is a great signing for the cubs, and also a great signing for the rest of the small markets in the NL central.

Jealous, envious? yes. hateful? doubtful.

by jacob on Dec 12, 2007 9:23 AM CST reply actions  

Padres fans hate us
because we take over their stadium when the Cubs are in SD.

Clearly, the reverse never happens.

by JFCubFan on Dec 12, 2007 9:26 AM CST up reply actions  

You don't think Padres fans hate the Cubs?
Go read the thread I linked to on the main page.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 9:30 AM CST up reply actions  

i did read it
and i do think that some padre fans hate the cubs, i just think it is dishonest to characterize their sentiment the way you did over this signing. also, i think it's kind of a kick 'em while their down thing to do that isn't very nice.

it's like a bully stealing a kid's lollipop on the playground, and instead of walking away the bully creates a scene to make sure all the other kids see that the kid who just had his lollipop stolen is crying. ha-ha.

obviously i can sympathize with padre fans here.

anyway, congrats on the signing, may have to reconsider my policy on cub games at miller park to see the great fukudome play.

:)

by jacob on Dec 12, 2007 9:50 AM CST up reply actions  

A classy Brewer fan!
Actually, most of the ones that I know are good baseball fans, and living in/being from WI and working in MKE, I know a few.

There is a very vocal minority that prefer to whine more about the Cubs fans than root for the Brewers (the same ones who forget about baseball when GB opens camp), but it's nice to see that sportsmanship isn't dead!

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 12, 2007 9:57 AM CST up reply actions  

"hateful? doubtful." no, thats wrong
go read gaslampball and you'll see more times than you count count on one hand,

"i hate the cubs!"

"f the cubs!"

"oh and f the brewers too!!"

ok kidding on the last one, but really, there are plenty of padres fans who are hateful towards the cubs.  and let them be, who cares?  there's always been bad blood, barrett a couple years ago, the dlee/chris young non-fight of last year.  i love a good hateful rivalry, bring it!

"discovered by the germans in 1904, they named it san diego, which of course in german means a whale's vagina"

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Dec 12, 2007 9:30 AM CST up reply actions  

ANCHOR MAN
Awesome reference, dude.
"DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY!"

by IowaCubs- on Dec 12, 2007 9:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I like this quote...
"This is Ron Burgundy, Go f*ck yourself, San Diego."

by Chadnudj on Dec 12, 2007 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

re: I like this quote...
"I'm kind of a big deal around here."
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 10:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Anchorman quote
"Mr. Burgundy, you have a massive erection."
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Dec 12, 2007 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd back off on that one
They've -- uh, heard it before. It's not quite ezactly creative anymore.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 12, 2007 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Actually, Al's right
I really dislike the Cubs.

Teams that I take extra satisfaction when the Padres manage wins against them:

  1. Dodgers
  2. Cubs
  3. Giants
  4. Diamondbacks
  5. Mets
  6. Rockies
Although, after last season, the Rockies will probably move up on the list.

Also, that thread that Al links to is extra harsh because the Diarist accused Padres fans of being "fairweather" for not wanting Fukudome to do well for the Cubs. Lots of reasons to call Padres fans "fairweather", but rooting against the Cubs isn't one of them.

by Dex on Dec 12, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

And, of course, your
stadium in spite of winning records recently, is only filled up for several of the teams you list.

Do you even go?

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 12, 2007 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Dude, don't get weird
When I did live in San Diego, I went to plenty of games.

Some people wonder why Wrigley Field continues to sell out even in terrible Cubs seasons, thereby giving ownership plenty of reason not to improve the club. So which group of fans is more reasonable?

by Dex on Dec 12, 2007 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

We are all mentally flawed...
grown men and women getting excited, frustrated, angry, and euphoric over millionaires playing a kid's game.

P.S. Go Cubs!!!! Padres Suck!!! I hate Steve Garvey!!!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 12, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey Dex.
you think padre fans hate cub fans because of the fukudome signing?

i can see hating the franchise, i do too (in fact i dislike any corporation that takes advantage of their customers). I also take extra pleasure in beating the cubs, i think all baseball fans do. (cubs fans: its cause you are so well 'traveled').

But i considered the implication that people hating other people was over the top. the us versus them thing. all designed to pick a fight.

anyway, you shouldn't feel bad about not getting fukudome, i think towers made a mistake allowing the pursuit to be public, he knew they were going to be outpid and someone would overpay. (psst: maybe you guys can swing a trade for matt murton to fill that hole?)

and really i just replied to say i enjoy your stuff over at gaslampball.com, it's great!

by jacob on Dec 12, 2007 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Just one of those things
Lots of Cubs fans in San Diego makes for more visiting fans during Cubs games makes for more "heated" confrontations during Padres/Cubs games makes for more reason for Padres fans to dislike the Cubs in general.

Also, thanks! I hate the Brewers too (after spoiling our season using the son of our greatest player), so don't feel left out. :)

by Dex on Dec 12, 2007 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

i don't hate the padres.
i've been a baseball fan for a long time and just found out san diego had a team like two or three years ago... so its tough to hate them.

also, you don't need to explain the "lots of cub fans in san diego thing" not to me anyway... i think there are more here in wisconsin. (which is north of illinois, but not by too much... lil' help for you west coasters).

;)

cheers mate, good luck.

by jacob on Dec 12, 2007 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

oh wait, i remember something about the padres
cute story.

we were at a padres game in miller park, must've been '04, though i thought burroughs committed an error but i can't find the game...

anyway... sitting on the third base side maybe 4th row, we were fulfulling our duty as baseball fans. maybe once an inning... "burrrrr-ooooooughs"... nice and long, and just once... unlike those kids today who repeat it too many times and add the all predictable "you suck" to the end." we like to let the name linger in the air...

by the 6th inning or so an annoyed fan in front of us turned around, he could've been burroughs' twin, and said "do you mind? that's my cousin."

after that game burroughs was never the same player...

wait, wait. found it... definitely this game cause the error was early (bottom of 1st) and we only decided to heckle after a horrid boot which led to a 2-out 2 run homer in the next at bat.

ha, good times, i think it might have been that game where i said "wait, the padres aren't from south dakota!"

by jacob on Dec 12, 2007 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Lee or Fukudome should be the
leadoff batter, with the other batting 2nd, Soriano 3rd and Aramis 4th...If you sign Roberts then everybody gets bumped back a slot.

Dusty is calling Prior and he'll be the Reds opening day starter, because he loves Dusty so much.

by DudeVf11 on Dec 12, 2007 9:23 AM CST reply actions  

Regarding Padres Fan...
I live in SD and last weekend the City put on its annual December Nights party in Balboa Park.  Part of the party includes free admission to the museums in the park.  One of those museums is the San Diego Sports Hall of Fame.  The Padres exhibit included a video tape showing of the Cubs v. Padres in 84, so I watched about 10 seconds and then turnded to my wife and said "That weekend made me more said than when my childhood dog died. Let's get out of here."  Then you could hear a radio broadcast replay of Coleman calling the Garvey HR...But I had a great time the rest of the evening.

by DudeVf11 on Dec 12, 2007 9:27 AM CST reply actions  

And, of course
that clip plays before every game on the video board.

Garvey is a pariah in this town for various reasons, I don't know why they even retired his number. Whenever is called upon to do something in MLB, he is always identified as a Dodger.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 12, 2007 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

there is nothing more heartwarming ..
.. then to hear Padres fans whine about this.

Whether Fukudome is the splash he's being made out to be still remains to be seen.

But listening to feral Padres fans foaming over how many ways they want to see him literally DIE is absolutely uplifting in an oddly perverse kind of way, especiallly since hours ago he was hailed as the Sensei of the franchise ..

ROTFLMMDO

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Dec 12, 2007 9:28 AM CST reply actions  

w00t!
Nothing else to say, except that I want to keep Murton -- can't he play center? -- and I DEFINITELY want to keep DeRosa, I think he plays just fine.
Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Dec 12, 2007 9:32 AM CST reply actions  

re: w00t!
I wouldn't mind seeing the Cubs hold on to Murton for a while longer either, but the thought of him in center makes me cringe. Given no other options, I'd almost rather see Cedeno out there -- and that makes me cringe, too.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Arigato
Thanks for the proper pronunciation. This is GREAT news.
"I'm a Cubs fan. I'm very, very patient." -- from a Shoe cartoon.

by No Southern Belle on Dec 12, 2007 9:43 AM CST reply actions  

Kosuke's Temper...
It looks like our dude Fukudome has a bit of a temper...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qkw8b3RhKrY

"DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY!"

by IowaCubs- on Dec 12, 2007 9:45 AM CST reply actions  

Where's K-Zone?
Wouldn't you be a bit ticked off if that umpire was calling strikes based solely on whether the catcher caught the ball?

Wasn't this like a replay of a Naked Gun scene?  I was waiting for the umpire to start doing the moon walk and splits!

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 9:56 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah...
still I hope this isn't a regular thing.  
"DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY!"

by IowaCubs- on Dec 12, 2007 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

I doubt that it is.
It's on Youtube because it's dramatic video. But I cannot imagine he has done that more than once. Plenty of MLB hitters have done that or worse, including the classy Andre Dawson, who once hurled bats on the field when he was PO'ed at calls that Joe West made.

Never saw Dawson do it again.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

So Dawson is one of the 2,863 players...
that Joe West has hosed with his terrible strike zone? Interesting.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 12, 2007 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

He was...
...doing his best Ted Lilly impression.

by seang03 on Dec 12, 2007 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

haha i love it
as incredibly pissed off as i was when he gave up that homer, im still able to laugh hard every time i see that replay.
Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Dec 12, 2007 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

witch one?
I wanna laugh. post a link

by Kchance on Dec 12, 2007 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

This is sad and funny...
http://www.actober.com/EmailPlayer2.aspx?key=5C4AD33467A16D8B

You gotta laugh at a grown man temper tantrum.

"DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY!"

by IowaCubs- on Dec 12, 2007 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Another set of projections...
...at Baseball Think Factory (maker of ZiPS, the second-best projections on the market): .293/.382/.460 Since any projection is really a range, we get the optimistic and pessimistic projections as well: Opp: .317/.415/.512 Pes: .262/.341/.391 There's also a lot of good discussion there about Matsui and why Matsui's first year isn't necessarily the best comp for Fukudome.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 10:08 AM CST reply actions  

re:gaslampball
I read the majority of this last night and couldn't believe the immaturity. Like I said in one of the diaries last night, if he had signed with them, the Padres fans would be dancing in the streets naked. But since he didn't, they are now coming up with stupid ways for him to die. Put through a wood chipper? Eaten by werewolves?Please. How rediculous.
Anxiously awaiting the arrival of Opening Day '08

by love the ivy on Dec 12, 2007 10:24 AM CST reply actions  

I used to post there
not as a lurker, but I would offer reasonable commentary. Since they knew I was a Cubs fan, the flaming started, and I was vilified.

I gave up because of the immaturity of the posters and the readers.

Strangely enough, I'd go back to look and see my name invoked. I must have made a hell of an impression, since I acted like an adult.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 12, 2007 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

fukudome!
Hey, sorry to do it to you again. You know there's a record of you not being very nice, of not being very "adult."

Not only is this stupid, it's unreadable.

Then you should have started the diary. Apparently, you forgot to. Must have been an oversight on your part. Obviously, you'll be quick to correct that next time.

(ps. sorry, couldn't resist, i know... i know...)

by jacob on Dec 12, 2007 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for being the diary police.
Why, I didn't even know I needed that.

</sarcasm>

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

And, as if on cue
This proves my point. Jacob, I suggest you post the entire diary, rather than a few lines of sarcastic rejoinder. But, if you believe taking lines out of context is knee-slapping humor, so be it. Knock yourself out.

Since others here have more important items to read, I'll point out that one of the diaries was written by a Dodgers fan who had hit the Crown Royale before posting, another was a critique of TBS -- a similar diary had been posted here. For my critique of TBS's miserable coverage of Rockies-Padres, I was flamed for that. I have to admit I was surprised I was attacked for a critique of TBS -- but, I get busted on anything I post, since I'm a 'known' Cubs fan. (Obviously, by clicking on the title of the diary, above my post -- you can see all the posts, and how mine fits into the sequence.) Apparently, I shouldn't waste my time over there. Lesson learned.

Sarcasm, if you are unaware, is a form of humor, which adults can recognize, and enjoy!! If you go to today's Gaslamp posting you will see many examples of childish, stupid observations, many directed at Cubs fans, others directed at Fukudome.  

They don't deserve any more mention.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 12, 2007 9:58 PM CST up reply actions  

You Know What Is Nice?
Seeing this under the Cubs contracts:

"Kosuke Fukudome of
4 years/about $48M (2008-11)

signed 12/12/07 as a free agent from Japan (Chunichi)

agent: Joe Urbon

ML service:"

:-D

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 10:32 AM CST reply actions  

Update "Math Help" - Payroll Discussion
Here is my original post discussing Cubs payroll on 11/15/2007

The Cubs payroll was at $99M (I assume this was prior to us cutting ties with Barrett, so I included him).

We've seen varying reports of payroll fluctuating.  We've seen $115M, $125, and most recently $135M!  Assuming payroll is $125M, the delta is $26M to play with.

So far, we've shed some payroll:

  • Jones/Infante:  Add $3M
  • Floyd: Add $3M
  • Barrett: $4.6M
  • Ohman: $1.6M
  • Rusch: $3.25M
Total: $15.45M

We've added some payroll:
Increase on existing players' contracts:

  • Zambrano increases from 12.4 to 15: add $2.6M
  • Soriano increases from 9 to 13: add $4M
  • Ramirez increases from 8 to 14: add $6M
  • Lilly increases from 5 to 7: add $2M
  • DeRosa increases from 2.75 to 4.75M: add $2M
  • Eyre increases from 3.5 to 3.8: add $0.3M
  • Wood increases from 1.75 to 4.2: add $2.45M
  • Lee is flat
  • Howry is flat
Sub-total: ($19.35M)

Increase on new acquisitions:

  • Fukudome: $12M
  • Lahey: $0.4M
  • Ascanio: $0.4M
Sub-total: ($12.8M)
Total: ($32.15M)

Now, let's get our final figure of money to increase:

( $26M + $15.45 - $32.15M ) = $9.3M

Assuming we shed Marquis' salary (6.375 in '08), that's almost $15.7M for us to work with!

Source for Cubs payroll

Go shopping - there's a speedster and starting pitcher to be had!!

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 10:35 AM CST reply actions  

Doh!
Where's Kerry Wood?!?  :-|

$4.2M base, $3.45M in performance bonuses.

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Updated...
...with him AND our Rule Five draft pick. Our 40-man roster is full up. I'll update this tomorrow again, I suppose, when we have a better idea of what Prior's actual salary situation will be, and whether or not it's with our team.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Nicely done
on Salary info ya'll.
Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 12, 2007 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

A Couple More Thoughts...
(a) The minimum salary for 25-man roster candidates is $400K n 2008.  Source

With this, Hill, Marmol, Wuertz, etc. can be dropped down, and Soto, Pie, Hart, etc. can be bumped up.  Bump those up that, in your best estimation, will be on the 25-man roster.

(b) What is the "Salary owed other teams" value of $1.5M for?  I thought JJ's was $2M.

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

You're killing me here.
<G> If anyone could give me a firm source on the money we owe for JJ, I'd appreciate it. I've seen both one and two million, so I split the difference. If you (or anyone else) wants to help update this, I can add people to the list of editors. You need a Google Docs (really GMail) account.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2007 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Jones
"acquired in trade (from Chicago Cubs) 11/12/07 (as part of deal, Cubs pay $2M of Jones' $5M 2008 salary)"

from: http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/detroit-tigers_21.html

I'll update the spreadsheet and send you copy.

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 11:17 AM CST up reply actions  

I believe the minimum salary
in 2008 will be $390,000 according to
The Biz of Baseball - Minimum Salary.

It was $380,000 in 2007.

by flachimesa on Dec 12, 2007 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

You're Right
I had the right source... forgot to read it!

"$390,000 in 2008"

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

I like the thought
especially the part about getting rid of Marquis

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 12, 2007 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Interesting Notes From Levine
"Interesting stuff from ESPN 1000's Bruce Levine this morning regarding Kosuke Fukudome.

The Rangers offered the most money.
The White Sox were not outbid - they offered about the same as the Cubs.  However, Fukudome did not want to displace Jermaine Dye from right field.
Fukudome was just intrigued by the Cubs, and liked the idea of being their first Japanese player."

from MLBTR

by initram on Dec 12, 2007 10:38 AM CST reply actions  

One thing that says to me is....
... that Fukudome really doesn't want to play CF, even though he's probably capable of doing so. The White Sox badly need a CF, but I'm guessing Fukudome let it be known that he wants to play RF.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Hope i am wrong
but this looks like a terrible signing, it smells of a contract that we are wishing we could dump in about 2 years.

His numbers will probably fall in line with most players making 3 to 4 million a year.  It always bothers me when someone has his best year, usually they are followed by an lesser year (it stands to reason) plus even Hendry has said it may take him a year to adjust, 12-14 million for on the job training sound like a waste, we should have spent that money on pitching

but then again i hope i am wrong.  

by cubsfaninkc on Dec 12, 2007 11:47 AM CST reply actions  

re: Hope i am wrong
I don't think they're concerned about the money due to the extra revenue streams he'll bring in...Japanese ads, more memorabilia sales, etc

What free agent pitchers would you like to see in a Cubs uni?

by seang03 on Dec 12, 2007 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

good question
I dont really have a person picked out as in as much as possible exploring something via trades even having that money for 2009.  

I just think that free agency is not always the best plan, i would rather us look inside and build for a better run than going for all in one shot.  

I know that everyone wants to win now, but i would rather us be more like atlanta than florida, yeah its great to win a world series.  but, i know i am in the minority, i would win the division for 8 of 10 years and at least have a change each year.  

I just dont see how continuing on the path of each year we will go and get a 12-15 million dollar guy to FIX it NOW approach is the best.  If are not careful we will end up with a average age of 35 and a payroll of 175 million in a couple of years.

by cubsfaninkc on Dec 12, 2007 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

re: Hope i am wrong
As for spending the money on pitching, you could spend all the money you wanted and get mediocre (at best) pitching.  Carlos Silva and Kyle Lohse are the headliner free agents!!!  Considering a number of scouts and projections have him being a productive major leaguer with + defense, filling the most glaring hole on our roster, it seems to me that it was a great signing.  

In regards to bringing in Japanese revenue, that sounds good, but read an article in the Boston Herald recently about how Boston really only picked up one revenue source (Funai Electronics) that they could really say came from Dice-K's presence. (However, that might be because Dice-K is a pitcher that you can show only every 5 days)

So while it may increase revenue a bit, it doesn't really change the economics of signing him.  But as mentioned I think that in this free agent market and for 4 years it was a smart deal

by mutzweiser on Dec 12, 2007 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I think this'll be a great signing for the Cubs.
A lot of Kosuke's stats should translate well in MLB. They'll most likely drop some, but I believe he'll maintain a high-.300s OBP and a mid- to high-.400s SLG. His defense will translate well, and he's got a legitimate right fielder's arm. He'll probably be able to play center a little more at Wrigley than he would in, say, an NL West ballpark. And, the Cubs have, hopefully, now gotten themselves into the Japanese market. Kudos! Welcome "Koh-skay"!

P.S.- Al, thanks for posting the correct pronunciation of his name...I've been wondering if I had it right for weeks now.

by Mark H @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 12, 2007 12:39 PM CST reply actions  

nice to see some action from the cubs
skimming through all these posts, it's nice to see everyone so excited and engaged. i have 2 comments.

1. as for the batting order, how about moving lee up in order? his power numbers were down last year, but he is still a patient hitter with a bit of speed who can pound out some doubles. whether we like it or not, soriano will most likely be leading off in april. if his legs are 100% this is not necessarily a bad thing. something like this:

soriano
lee
fukudome
ramirez
soto

could be a good top of the lineup, especially if soto continues to hit like he did in september...

2. i have no problem with dero at 2b next year, but this lineup is still a bit heavy on the right-handers - especially if pie's hitting woe's continue. either way it turns out, i think dero will play often due to lou's regular use of double switches. versatility is a big thing for this team. if pie is still hitting poorly i think we will see fukudome in the same center/right role as jones last year - with pie replacing dero as a defensive upgrade late in games.....

...... and hey cubs fans, isn't it nice to have something substantial to discuss!  ;-)

by anormal on Dec 12, 2007 12:40 PM CST reply actions  

that's putting
a lot of pressure on Soto. Assuming the Cubs don't get Roberts, I think Theriot or DeRosa hits second, with Lee third in front of Fukudome and Ramirez.

by elgato on Dec 12, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

my 2 cents
.01 i think we need a lefty in one of the top 3 spots

.02 ramirez is a good cleanup hitter and i don't think we should move him down unless the pitching matchup is poor for him....

by anormal on Dec 12, 2007 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Either Soto is a ML player or he's not...
I happen to think he is. Bat him 5 and let him and DeRosa hit with runner on base.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 12, 2007 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

if the Cubs get Roberts
Here's my lineup against right-handers:

Roberts
Lee
Fukudome
Ramirez
Soriano
Soto
Theriot
Pie

by elgato on Dec 12, 2007 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed
if the cubs land roberts (or any lefty starter) that will change things up a bit. - but i think soriano will be leading off. it might be good to consider moving him down (though he will need a bigger bat behind him that soto), but i just don't think it's going to happen. i can live with soriano leading off as long as his legs are 100%.

by anormal on Dec 12, 2007 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

One thing you don't want
is Soriano behind Ramirez.  I still expect that Soriano leads off regardless what people want but in any case let Soriano use his speed.    

by rlpete on Dec 12, 2007 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

change of heart
I have been saying that I want Dero to be our starting 2B and he deserves it but I have had a change of heart today.  The reason I did was because while making out my potential lineup I realized we still do need another lefty.  Keep him as a "super sub" at 2b, 3b, 1b, RF, and LF.  This is my lineup hoping we get Roberts.

Roberts
Theriot
Soriano
Ramirez
Lee
Fukudome
Soto
Pie

The 3-5 is debatable to me because I see many advantages to each one of the 3 in all 3 spots. I think Soriano there because I could see him look at it as an insult if he was batting 5, I don't see that problem with DLee. Also, having Ramirez behind him would give him more opportunities to see fastballs I would hope.
Plus, doing the lineup up this way would spread out our lefties and speed.  That would be a pretty quick team.

A side note, another thing that excites me is our outfield defense. I realize Soriano misplays some balls, but Pie can make up for a lot of that and there will be 3 guys out there with strong, accurate arms. Something I haven't seen on the Cubs in my short life.

by slocs55 on Dec 12, 2007 1:53 PM CST reply actions  

Jersey
Not to rain on the parade but shouldn't the jersey have the last name on the back and not his first name?

by ryanbrixenivy on Dec 12, 2007 2:21 PM CST reply actions  

LOL
But, to the poster who asked, he should read through the rest of this thread to find out the reason I did it that way.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2007 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I always thought...
...that Suzuki would be a cooler name than Ichiro.  To me, he reminds me of a little neon off road Suzuki motorcycle that my neighbor used to own.  I think #51 would have had a great career in motocross.

I'm not sure exactly why I shared that, but thanks for the explanation anyway.  

"DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY!"

by IowaCubs- on Dec 12, 2007 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Not to rain
on your parade, but "Kosuke" is his last name.

The Japanese put their family names first.  He's properly known as "Fukudome Kosuke."  However, the Japanese also know that the West puts the family name last, so they usually switch the order when they give their names to non-Japanese speakers or when they write it in romaji or the Western alphabet, in order to avoid confusion and embarrassment. They're polite that way.

It's been said before, but I'll say it again.  It's been assumed that he will put "Kosuke" on his jersey because "Fukudome" can be pronounced by English speakers as an obscenity.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 12, 2007 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

pronounced by English speakers as an obscenity
I was at a youth baseball tournament in the Netherlands a few years ago, hosted by a club called VUC.  An acronym, but they pronounce it as a word, and the Dutch pronunciation of V is fairly similar to the English F.

The Dutch, being very good English speakers, they thought this was hilarious. Even had the little leaguers learn an English language victory chant: "We are black / we are white / we are VUC-ing dynamite!!!"

"FUK-" nicknames won't offend Kosuke, but if he's sensitive to cultural issues, you're probably right about how he'll choose to be called here.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Dec 12, 2007 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

The White Sox
really got kicked in the nuts on this one.

According to the Sun-Times, the Sox actually outbid us.  (Probably not by a lot)

But Kosuke wanted to play for the Cubs because 1) he wanted to be the first Japanese player to play for a particular team 2) he wanted to play right field whereas the Sox wanted him to play left field and 3)Shigetoshi Hasagawa is a friend of his, and Shiggy said that Piniella was great to play for.  Lord knows what Shiggy said about Ozzie Guillen.

Left unsaid is that the Cubs are likely to be a better team than the Sox for the next two or three years.

Hasegawa may have been our secret weapon in all of this.  He's well-respected in Japan because he learned to speak English fluently and has written a couple of books in Japan on how to learn to speak English.  He's also a color commentator for NHK broadcasts of MLB games.  And apparently he liked playing for Lou Piniella in Seattle.

The Rangers apparently outbid us too, but the geography rules probably applied here.  San Diego  beats Chicago but Chicago beats Dallas.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 12, 2007 3:16 PM CST reply actions  

re: The White Sox
Wow, interesting stuff. Just goes to show how important it is to have quality people both on the field and in the organization.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe the White Sox...
can file a protest against the free-agent signings of Fukudome/Rowand/Cabrera/Andruw Jones.  On the bright-side, Luis Gonzales/Jim Edmonds/Geoff Jenkins would make a great outfield for Kenny this year!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 12, 2007 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

re: Maybe the White Sox...
You're dadgum right this off-season is gonna be played under protest!
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 12, 2007 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Comic Gold
n/t
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Dec 12, 2007 10:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Another kick in the nuts to Kenny
Rowand just signed with the Giants.
Old Style is the nectar of life.

by Mordecai on Dec 12, 2007 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Iciro
Does anyone think Ichiro might have put in a good word for Pinella?
We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by puckishcubsfan on Dec 12, 2007 8:42 PM CST up reply actions  

i feel so bad for the White Sox
Not really! It will be interesting to see if they even get the 10,000 to show up to watch a bunch of Triple-A players.
Aug 15 - Ted Lilly walked by the lineup card and said to nobody in particular "I can't believe I'm batting 9th again".

by mweil on Dec 12, 2007 3:44 PM CST reply actions  

ESPN Around the Horn
Going to be talking about fukudome in a little. You'll get to hear what mariotti thinks unless he gets cut first.

by cubswin14 on Dec 12, 2007 4:08 PM CST reply actions  

I'll respond to my own post
3 of the 4 said Fukudome was a good signing, you can guess who didn't like it (Hint: starts with an M and ends with an i).

by cubswin14 on Dec 12, 2007 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I watched some video of Fukudome earlier
and noticed that he seems to like the ball middle-in. Did anybody else notice that?

by Mark H @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Dec 12, 2007 5:26 PM CST reply actions  

Honesty compels me to say,
this is the best I've felt, since the day Mr. Hendry officially declared that he was not going to offer Mr. Baker a new contract.
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Dec 12, 2007 6:37 PM CST reply actions  

Excellent...
I'm definitely excited...great to go into the weekend with this news. Welcome Kosuke!
You ARE freaking out MAN!

by crw89 on Dec 12, 2007 6:41 PM CST reply actions  

HENDRY coming up
on the Flagship - 7:10 PM

LEt's discuss...

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 12, 2007 7:11 PM CST reply actions  

Anyone catch
Jason Stark's comments about Fuku maybe not being able to hit left handed pitching, or that he could turn out to be a platoon player?
I would not fight Jason Kendall.

by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2007 8:05 PM CST reply actions  

I have to give up more often
2 weeks ago I was convinced Kerry was gone.  Next day he resigns.

Tuesday I had a bad feeling Fukudome was going to sign with the Padres.  Tuesday night he signs.

Now I've decided to be convinced we're not going to get Roberts.

Watch Hendry get him by this time tomorrow.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by puckishcubsfan on Dec 12, 2007 8:39 PM CST reply actions  

Re: I have to give up more often
You should be resigned to the Cubs not winning it all in '08 and maybe, just maybe the Cubs will win the World Series!!
Aug 15 - Ted Lilly walked by the lineup card and said to nobody in particular "I can't believe I'm batting 9th again".

by mweil on Dec 12, 2007 9:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Padres and Angels
I think both teams hate our guts.

PAdres wanted Fukudome.

Angels really wanted Ramirez last year.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by puckishcubsfan on Dec 12, 2007 8:40 PM CST reply actions  

I really, really hate
pointing out idiocies on the Brewer board, because Lord knows that there are enough idiocies on this board for them to point out.  Also, that board is for them to say what they want without being picked apart by fans of other teams.

But seriously.  Their front page story is the Cubs got Fukudome, the Astros got Tejada and the Brewers got Eric Gagne.  Their conclusion?  "It's a big week in the NL Central without any clear winner."

OK, I'll buy that it's not clear who will be more valuable, Fukudome or Tejada.  I'd rather have Fukudome, but I can see the argument for Tejada.  (But us not having to surrender prospects is a big factor in our favor.)

But to equate Eric Gagne with those players is just nuts.  This is the same Eric Gagne who had an ERA of 6.75 with Boston last year.  The same Eric Gagne who missed two years with injuries.  And a closer is never as valuable as a everyday player.

I think they're drinking something a little stronger than beer up there.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Dec 12, 2007 9:20 PM CST reply actions  

josh
so many things... here's just three.
  1. you can't use the last 24 innings of a players performance as the only indication for what he'll do next year. If you did that Jason Marquis is looking at collecting 16+ million dollars for posting a 7+ ERA.
  2. You are reading far too much into a throwaway line from one writer.
Their conclusion?

You know, it wasn't a writing effort by all brewer fans, so more correctly you'd write "Jeff's conclusion?"

3. Do you think there is a clear favorite for the NL Central? All Jeff is saying is that despite the moves this week, a clear favorite for the NL Central has not emerged. That's all.

by jacob on Dec 13, 2007 9:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Not to wade in here too deep...
...but I don't think it's entirely impossible that Jason Marquis will do exactly that.
I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 10:23 AM CST up reply actions  

jacob
so many things to say  here's a few

your an idiot

you hang out here because you dont get enough fun at you own blog

you are here to needle al and nothing more

you just predicted at your blog that the cubs would win 71 games- your an idiot

you tried to whine about pecota being broke because your afraid fukudome is going to be good- therefore you claim to know better than everyone else, then your own blog leader bitch slaps you with actual information and you go silent

cwyers has destoryed you several times here at BCB when you spout off your nonsense and you never respond then either

your a brewer fanboy who is pissed off your team's window wont amount to much because a larger market team can outbuy you. watching you fall apart as the brewers season did over at brewcrewball was almost as fun as winning the division.

just go back to brew crew ball and try and wish the cubs away and keep your fingers crossed for an ERA under 5 from Gagne :)

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Dec 13, 2007 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

While I happen to agree....
... with most of your points here, it would have been far more effective if you hadn't resorted to namecalling.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 4:51 PM CST up reply actions  

you should
have just banned him along time ago. he serves no purpose here. he isnt providing an etic look at our team he is just here for low level provocation.
"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Dec 13, 2007 4:57 PM CST up reply actions  

idiot
that criticism would be worth something coming from someone who knew the difference between your and you're. same mistake you made while trolling brewcrewball.com as "cubfan."

at least i don't hide like a coward, behind different names at different sites.

i already responded to all your nonsense at brewcrewball when you made your last post there.

you completely mischaracterize me by suggesting i'm pissed off, or whining or what my motives are, and really it reflects poorly on you. I see why maddog called you an idiot. Even cub fans don't like you.

you responded to an entirely legitimate, non-inflammatory post from me. your post was entirely uncalled for and the equivalent of trolling. I'm embarrassed and disappointed that Al would condone it by "agreeing" with it. Persecute those with different opinions, i guess. Cheers! and good luck!

by jacob on Dec 13, 2007 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

different names?
does "cubsfan" not make my affliation transparent enough for you?

as far as maddog or anyone calling me an idiot in 2006 thats fine, if you read what i was posting here in 2006 i would agree, i didnt know much about the game outside of bubble gum cards.

maddog could post that same thing today and i wouldnt care because i dont blog for social validation, i do it to learn more about baseball. Ive been posting at ACB for over a year now on and put up my own work when i want to so i dont think im unwanted.  Unlike you being here

What i DO find very intresting is that you who as a brewer fan with seemingly no connection to ACB (or even an awarness of the blog or me alltogether) in 2006 would know where to find the thread that contained that comment. Unless you have been reading multiple cubs blogs for a few years now in additon to posting at your brewers ones (you really must clue me in on your time managment) it would be hard to know the above mentioned things.

This coupled with a few phrases you use, the way you knew my sig here without me telling you and your general posting style points at your partaking in a bit of handle alteration yourself. In fact its pretty obvious to me who you "really" are online and its as pathetic as it is humerous.

Dont worry though, your seceret will be safe with me, I know you need this media outlet to fufill the void in your life.

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Dec 13, 2007 5:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Goodbye
Prior.  It worries me some, but I don't think I will mind watching him go be a baby on another team.

by mutzweiser on Dec 12, 2007 9:44 PM CST reply actions  

Maddux he ain't
I have a feeling his heyday as a MLB pitcher has come and gone.  Quite unfortunate, as he was an amazing natural talent, but I don't think he'll be missed.  I may be eating those words in two years, but I doubt it.
------ TheRiot Squad ------

by RightFieldSucks on Dec 12, 2007 10:27 PM CST up reply actions  

What a bunch of crying babies...
I took a glance over at Gaslamp Ball and could not believe all of the crying. If they should cry about anything it shouldn't be that the Cubs have more money, it should be that they have to wear those camo uni's. By far ugliest baseball uniform ever. Way beyond the old Astros.
Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.

by Bricks and Ivy on Dec 12, 2007 11:03 PM CST reply actions  

Heck my be freezing over
I've seen Brewers, Cardinals and Astros fans whining about the Cubs spending.

PEople whining about the Cubs spending.  Heck is freezing over.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by puckishcubsfan on Dec 12, 2007 11:07 PM CST reply actions  

Go Away.
At least from this blog. Your posts are so repetitive, and stupid, and just downright annoying. Yes, hell(or heck) must be freezing over because some fans say the Cubs spend a lot of money. Great point. This mad KOW disease infecting BCB is getting old.

by princefieldersdiet on Dec 12, 2007 11:23 PM CST up reply actions  

So where does he hit?
Here's my batting order:
  1. Theriot
  2. Fukudome
  3. Soriano
  4. Ramirez
  5. Lee
  6. Derosa
  7. Soto
  8. Pie
  9. Zambrano
You can post yours on my blog here.

by winkmv on Dec 13, 2007 8:51 AM CST reply actions  

In case you didn't realize
Theriot will likely have the 2nd lowest OBP of that group.  He and Pie should be 7 and 8.  Soriano, DeRosa and Fukudome are all better leadoff hitters than Theriot.  

by rlpete on Dec 13, 2007 8:56 AM CST up reply actions  

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