Thursday Open Thread

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 9:17 AM CST in Chicago Cubs News

I'm posting this thread for general discussion today, because there are a lot of things going on -- you wouldn't expect that in the middle of December, would you?

Use this thread for discussing the Mitchell Report press conference, scheduled for 1 pm CT, and the Bud Selig Embarrassed Throat-Clearing press conference, scheduled for 3:30 pm CT.

You can start with this: there's a radio report out that Roger Clemens is going to be named. (I'm guessing that, if true, that ends Clemens' career. Discuss.)

You can also discuss here the non-tendering of Mark Prior, and any of the rest of the non-tenders made yesterday; this Bruce Miles article which says the Cubs might actually be coming around to modern-day thinking about baseball statistics; the announcement that the Illinois Sports Facilities Authority, which owns the Cell, might be interested in buying Wrigley Field (you can also discuss that issue in kaseyi's diary on the right sidebar (incidentally, though some posters there seem to be horrified by the idea of naming rights to Wrigley Field, it doesn't bother me in the least. I go to games to see games; if it's, say, "Motorola Park at Wrigley Field", so what? That doesn't change the baseball played within), or any of the other baseball-related items that have come out in the last couple of days, including confirmation in this Paul Sullivan article that:

[Kosuke] Fukudome will wear No. 1 and has asked to wear his first name on the back of his jersey, as Ichiro Suzuki does in Seattle.

In this article about the Fukudome signing on the Cubs website, they already invite you by a link at the top of the page to "Customize a Fukudome jersey". I imagine that those will be on sale at the stores around the ballpark within a day or two after he's officially introduced at a news conference.

Once the news conference is over and I have a chance to at least scan through the Mitchell Report (which is supposed to be more than 300 pages long), I'll try to write up some sort of recap of all of it later this afternoon.

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ESPN

The Network (not the movie) is scheduled to have 5 hours worth of coverage. Should be plenty of baseball talk over the next few days, even if it's mostly about cheaters.

My only hope is that, after the dust settles, there is at least SOME sense of where baseball needs to go from here. I just hope that something positive comes out of this whole mess...

"Look, what's important is to be in first place on the last day of the season." -Lou 8/1/07

by 26.2cubfan on Dec 13, 2007 9:06 AM CST reply actions

going to be a crazy day in baseball...

..The Sullivan article on Fukudome today is excellent IMO. Filled in a few blanks for me.

Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Dec 13, 2007 9:07 AM CST reply actions

Clemens

According to ESPN, Clemens was identified by his former personal trainer. Seems like pretty damning evidence. This isn't someone who knew someone who knew someone.

In one fell swoop the man who may be considered the greatest living pitcher has seen his reputation turn on a dime.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 13, 2007 9:09 AM CST reply actions

Here's more info...

.... from ESPN.com.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 9:23 AM CST up reply actions

Compare to Maddux

Maddux's career just looks better and better. His numbers in the juiced era are just amazing. Maybe he's one of the top 5-10 pitchers of all time, based on the fact that he was pitching against a lot of drugged-up hitters.

"These are terrible times, and I shouldn't joke about them." --Warren Zevon

by ExNorthsider on Dec 13, 2007 9:51 AM CST up reply actions

Maddux on steroids

Um not TAKING them, talking about them.
My favorite two quotes
"If I did take them I should get a refund"

"Maybe I should have taken them, I would get a bigger
neck , last longer and get zits on my back"

Best quote ABOUT Maddux & steroids went something like
"Maddux's closest connection to them is that he looks
like a chemist that might have invented "the clear"

I refer to Clemens as the Anti-Maddux so I can't say
I will be sorry if he is named.

"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Dec 13, 2007 10:56 AM CST up reply actions

He is one individual, that many

have always wondered about.

If he is named, he may not get around to writing that book about workout regimens and staying healthy as a power pitcher. I was really looking forward to the chapter on controlling ones emotions on the mound. <ha>

by N Oakley on Dec 13, 2007 10:34 AM CST up reply actions

About Prior...

... I didn't really give my own opinion above, just a note. Here's how I feel: it's a shame. We thought we had the golden boy who was going to have a Tom Seaver-like career and go straight to the Hall of Fame 5 years after he retired. Instead, we got one magic season that ended... well, you know. And then nine trips to the DL in six years. I won't go into all the angst back and forth, because that's largely irrelevant now.

Could Prior come back with some other team and have a Chris Carpenter-like stint, having several good years and winning a Cy Young? Maybe. But more likely, his career ends like Steve Busby's, or Dennis Leonard's, or Gary Nolan's, or Don Gullett's. (Look 'em all up. Every one of them had Prior-like status at one time in their careers.)

I posted this in the Prior diary yesterday, but it bears repeating: in 2001, after the Twins passed on Prior (citing unsignability) and drafted Joe Mauer, the Cubs had a choice of Prior or Mark Teixeira. They'd have been far better off choosing Teixeira.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 9:10 AM CST reply actions

Yes Teixeira would have been much better

but the thinking at the time was that Prior was far and away the best available player. IIRC, the only reason that Minn passed on him was because they weren't going to meet his bonus demands.

While, in retrospect, Tiexiera would have been the better choice, at the time, the Prior pick was an aboslute no-brainer.

by NO100 on Dec 13, 2007 9:19 AM CST up reply actions

I do remember...

... all of the "Prior is the greatest college pitcher ever" discussion. And yet, I also remember some MSM debate about whether the Cubs might take Teixeira.

We had some debates about this in the bleachers, too. As you say, the consensus out there, as most other places, was that Prior was the "no-brainer" choice.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 9:25 AM CST up reply actions

Minnesota

also passed on Prior because Mauer was a bit of a local golden boy - having grown up in St. Paul and dominating many high school sports. He was offered a scholarship to play QB at Florida State but wanted to catch for the Twins. It wasn't just that Mauer would be cheaper than Prior, but also the local factor.

by montanacubby on Dec 13, 2007 10:49 AM CST up reply actions

Indeed

I shot an interview with Joe Mauer when he was still a HS kid. Nice kid, too - and from all reports, he still is, which is a pleasant contrast to far too many pro athletes in any sport you can name.

And except for the injuries, Mauer was a very good pick for the Twins. And presuming he manages to stay healthy from here on out, it's a pick that will look better and better in hindsight.

Gotta love those rear-view mirrors, huh?

by MN exile on Dec 13, 2007 10:58 AM CST up reply actions

Don Gullett

Of pitchers I have seen, he was always the poster boy for pitchers and what could have been. Maybe Prior will replace him.

Gullett finished his career at age 27 with a 109-50 career mark. You can also throw out that last season so by age 26 he was already 105-48. That also includes the fact that injuries had already slowed him down as his last 200 innings season was at age 23.

Busby's drop was the most severe though. By age 25, he already had seasons of 16, 22 and 18 wins. He won 11 games after that.

by rlpete on Dec 13, 2007 9:30 AM CST up reply actions

I'm disappointed in this decision

All that time and money invested in him and his rehab (particularly the entire 2007 season). And, we're not even going to try to get any return on our investment?

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 13, 2007 9:46 AM CST up reply actions

It's Called Sunk Cost

Business people should not change their present/future decisions based on what cost has been invested in the past. It causes managers to continue to invest in bad decisions.

It's my understanding that if Prior had any time on the major league roster this year, then he would be eligible for free agency in 2009.

Reports have shown he may be ready by the end of May / early June. More conservatively, though, was August or September.

So, is $2.8M worth having a pitcher come back and start competing in (what we all hope will be) a pennant race, and have, what, 8 starts? And, depending on how he does, may not even pitch a post-season game?

And then walk in 2009?

The real root of the issue is not all of this, but rather he did not want to pitch for the Cubs. You can have the most talented player on the planet on your team -- if he doesn't want to be here, though, and has it affect other players, the damage to the team will outweigh any good he may bring.

Sidenote: I just have more of an appreciation for Jacque Jones. He was in a similar position -- he clearly did not want to be here. But, he did not let that get him down, he kept playing hard, and did nothing but smile about it. One could argue that without his performance in the second half of the season, we may not have made it into the playoffs last year. I wish him luck, especially seeing that he may be a bench player on the Tigers now.

This is who I think the Cubs #1 should be...

by initram on Dec 13, 2007 10:03 AM CST up reply actions

My guess is...

... that the Tigers will ship Brandon Inge somewhere, and Cabrera will play 3B and Jones LF. Jones is in the last year of his deal; he's not likely to be a Tiger in 2009, so Cabrera can move to LF then.

That'll put the Tigers in search of a 3B for 2009, but they're probably not concerned about that now.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 10:06 AM CST up reply actions

Couldn't agree more on Jones

many players would have mailed it in at that point, but he kept pushing forward. I also agree they don't make the playoffs without his 2 month hot streak.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2007 10:10 AM CST up reply actions

Hindsight is 20/20

Talk about an asinine posting....

Yeah, as of 2007, Teixeira has flirted (albeit briefly) with being one of the elite offensive players in the league, while Prior hasn't had regular appearances since 2003.

But that's impossible to predict in '01. Had Prior stayed healthy, there's no doubt in my mind he would have been HOF-caliber. Teixeira will be lucky to get free price of admission when he takes his kids there in 10 years.

It just as easily could have gone the other way....Teixeira woulda gotten beaned in the wrist and ruined his swing for years, while Prior stayed healthy. But it didn't. And that fact alone doesn't mean we should have taken Teixeira over Prior. F@#! Teixeira. He sucks. Calfzilla was the man.

------ TheRiot Squad ------

by RightFieldSucks on Dec 13, 2007 4:05 PM CST up reply actions

Hope I'm not jinxing anything...

...but the silver lining to Clemens being listed? Even greater appreciation of the brilliance of Greg Maddux.

jessica, feel free to weigh in.

by Chadnudj on Dec 13, 2007 9:20 AM CST reply actions

Silver lining?

Look, I'm no fan of the Mitchell ~~Witch Hunt~~ Investigation, but if there's anyone that's going to be thrown under the bus so that baseball can give the fans some red meat here... Yeah, Clemens is a GREAT choice. Great choice. Not only does it vindicate pretty much everything I've ever said in bar arguements about steroids, but he truly is the Barry Bonds of pitchers, and it couldn't have happened to a worse human being. I don't know if the man has a soul. So... yeah. Pretty relaxed about it.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 9:23 AM CST up reply actions

I don't disagree

and I keep saying, you will see a lot of pitchers on this list.

The guy I hit against many years ago was a string bean compared to what he is today.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2007 9:52 AM CST up reply actions

The guy you hit against?

You were in the Show MPH?

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 10:20 AM CST up reply actions

Nope

I hit against him when he pitched for Texas in the Collegiate regional championship game. The dude beat us 1-0 and they went on to win the national championship.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2007 10:29 AM CST up reply actions

wow

what was your result hitting against him?

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 10:32 AM CST up reply actions

Grounded out to short twice

n/t

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2007 10:41 AM CST up reply actions

was he an a-hole back than too?

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 10:46 AM CST up reply actions

We thought they were all a-holes

and anyone who played against Texas probably would say the same. You just get tired of that "hookem horns" hand signal they all do.

One guy on that team who we were happy to knock out of the box, was Calvin Schiraldi. Not a very likable dude.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2007 11:00 AM CST up reply actions

Hey MPH

I'm sure you were a string bean back then compared to what you are today as well:)

It shouldn't surprise anyone that some pitchers would decide to use steroids or other growth drugs/supplements... speeds up recovery time on that shoulder.

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 13, 2007 10:36 AM CST up reply actions

well

I played at 6'2" - 205 and today I am about 220, but my head is the same size as it was then:)

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2007 10:43 AM CST up reply actions

anyone who belived deep down..

..that Clemens was throwing gas at 42 and wasnt on something, is lying to themselves.

This is hardly a shocking soon to be revelation.

But to your point, Maddux genuis is now even more appreciated.

Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Dec 13, 2007 9:25 AM CST reply actions

Nolan Ryan?

What about the Ryan Express? That guy was still throwing gas and no-hitters when he was what, 46?

by McRipper on Dec 13, 2007 9:40 AM CST up reply actions

Keep in mind that former

players may also be in the report. I would be very dissapointed if someone I admired, like Ryan, was listed, but this afternoon will be telling.

by N Oakley on Dec 13, 2007 10:37 AM CST up reply actions

Lots of ADVIL!

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 13, 2007 10:39 AM CST up reply actions

Ryan

That's it. If Nolan is on the list, I lose all my faith in baseball. All of what's left of it.

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Dec 13, 2007 11:10 AM CST up reply actions

In Ryan's defense....

...he came on lights out and gradually tailed off. He didn't have a power resurgence at the age of 37 like Clemens did.

Still, anything's possible.

Besides the obvious - Go Irish.

Z. He doesn't need an exclamtion point. He is one.

by PopeFlick on Dec 13, 2007 11:25 AM CST up reply actions

I don't agree

Ryan did tail off a bit in the mid-1980s and appeared headed to retirement. But when he went to the Rangers in 1989 at age 42 he had a huge resurgence, striking out 300 a year again and pitching two more no-hitters. I'd argue he was far more dominant in the 1989-1991 period than he had been from say, 1983 to 1986, when he had some injury problems.

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Dec 13, 2007 11:50 AM CST up reply actions

I'd say.

The numbers back me up. You can single out a spike in K's, but that coincided with the year he changed leagues, which means a whole new generation got introduced to his fastball.

And a guy throwing 2 no-no's in his late 40's might look suspicious - if he hadn't alreadyy had 5 (!).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ryanno01.shtml

Still, anything's possible but this stuff doesn't look like Clemen's resurgence for gosh sakes...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/clemero02.shtml

Besides the obvious - Go Irish.

Besides the obvious - Go Irish.

Z. He doesn't need an exclamtion point. He is one.

by PopeFlick on Dec 13, 2007 1:01 PM CST up reply actions

Everyone keep talking about the Mitchell report

but I'm interested in more important things.

Like the fact that Fukudome will apparently put "Kosuke" on his jersey. I think it's a mistake. Fukudome is actually easier to pronounce, and much more fun. I have a feeling he'll still be called Fukudome by fans and the media for those reasons.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Dec 13, 2007 9:36 AM CST reply actions

I agree...

...but like Al said yesterday, Fukudome, when split up, has a different connotation here than in Japan where he wore "Fukudome" on the jersey.

by seang03 on Dec 13, 2007 9:42 AM CST up reply actions

Cant' we get past that?

:-)

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Dec 13, 2007 9:46 AM CST up reply actions

Obviously Cubs fans can...

...fans of other teams will not though

by seang03 on Dec 13, 2007 10:03 AM CST up reply actions

Cubs fans can

until the first time he strikes out with the bases loaded in the 8th or 9th inning at Wrigley.

"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Dec 13, 2007 10:28 AM CST up reply actions

I'd say...

The numbers back me up. You can single out a spike in K's, but that coincided with the year he changed leagues, which means a whole new generation got introduced to his fastball.

And a guy throwing 2 no-no's in his late 40's might look suspicious - if he hadn't alreadyy had 5 (!).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ryanno01.shtml

Still, anything's possible but this stuff doesn't look like Clemen's resurgence for gosh sakes...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/clemero02.shtml

Besides the obvious - Go Irish.

Z. He doesn't need an exclamtion point. He is one.

by PopeFlick on Dec 13, 2007 12:26 PM CST up reply actions

Santo

Now hearing him try to pronounce the first or last name will be tons of fun.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 13, 2007 9:50 AM CST up reply actions

I can't wait...

...for their first interview >8)

by Shawon O Meter on Dec 13, 2007 10:26 AM CST up reply actions

How about starting a Fuk-O-Meter!

n/a

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 13, 2007 10:38 AM CST up reply actions

Could be worse

or better depending on your point of view. What if Austin Powers were doing the interview. ;-)

"Kosuke to me, baby. Oh, behave..."

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 13, 2007 10:38 AM CST up reply actions

Makes me long for

Harry.

by kidk on Dec 13, 2007 11:03 AM CST up reply actions

About Fukudome...

... I signed up for Google News alerts on the Japanese Google News site about him, so I've been getting articles like this one.

I ran it through Google Translate. Yes, I realize that only provides a rough translation, and I'm not going to reproduce that here. What I got from that, though, are a few things that haven't been mentioned elsewhere (or if they were, I missed them):

Fukudome's surgery last August was performed in the US. The article says it was to "remove loose cartilage", but that could be a mistranslation.
He hits .299 in night games, .305 in day games.
The article gives a little bit of history about the Cubs, talks about the last championships being in 1907 and 1908, mentions that Wrigley Field was built in 1914 and unfortunately, brings up the billy goat incident in 1945. Hope that's not all the Japanese press is telling the people there about the Cubs.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 9:38 AM CST reply actions

I really like that article...

Not that I understood any of it (I didn't run it thru any translater) I just liked seeing a Japanese article.

Kasey

See the Cubs 2008 schedule at http://ignarski.tripod.com/sched2008.html

by kaseyi on Dec 13, 2007 9:45 AM CST up reply actions

John DeWan... the walking encyclopedia of baseball

Compared Fukudome's Japan career numbers to Tadahito Iguchi... they were very, very similar, and both of their best years were almost identical.

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 13, 2007 9:54 AM CST up reply actions

In Iguchi's first ML season...

... he hit .278/.342/.438 with 25 doubles, 15 HR, 74 runs, 71 RBI and a OPS+ of 104.

I think Fukudome will do a bit better than that; Iguchi walked 47 times and struck out 114. Fukudome's K/BB ratio is likely to be better than that, which would bump up the rest of his numbers (particularly runs).

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 10:04 AM CST up reply actions

Iguchi's OBP...

...in Japan was lower than Fukudome's, so I agree that you can expect better production from Fukudome. My (revised, very revised) projection system for Japanese ballplayers says that Iguchi "should have" hit .298/.332/.392. I have Fukudome pegged at .297/.378/.412 currently. Roughly the same batting average, a little bit more power -- but more walks out of Fukudome by far.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 10:19 AM CST up reply actions

Alright, I'm sure this will get buried...

...under all the roids talk, but my full projections for Fukudome are available here, along with retroprojections for other Japanese hitters who have come to the U.S. For those looking to see how well the system works, projected vs. real stats are in the last page of the workbook.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 11:13 AM CST up reply actions

Apparently...

...the doctor that did the surgery, Dr. Lewis Yocum, has a lot of past history with the Cubs. He was the mentor to team doctor Dr. Stephen Gryzlo. Oh, and he's done plenty of work with the ex-Employee, it seems like. And JoBo. So I'm guessing the organization is very comfortable with the reports they're getting from him.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 10:00 AM CST up reply actions

I can handle goat references...

and if they mention not winning since 1908, I'm cool with that too. Heck, they can even talk about the '69 Cubs, and I wouldn't mind a bit. And yes, if the Japanese media want to bring up a certain foul-ball incident from a few years ago, I guess I can live with that as well.

But if there's one mention of Woowoo-san in those articles, we're dead. Doomed. Finished. Sayonara...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 13, 2007 10:47 AM CST up reply actions

Japan

Maybe this will be the answer to the curse. Remember the Steve Goodman song said, "The last time the Cubs won a pennant, was the year we dropped the bomb on Japan." Or something like that.

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Dec 13, 2007 11:12 AM CST up reply actions

Interesting pattern of melting snow...

... at Wrigley Field this morning. (It's 36 degrees here right now.)

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 9:48 AM CST reply actions

Didn't they put in a drainage system?

I wonder if that is the piping or something

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 10:23 AM CST up reply actions

I would bet that it is.

I would guess that the pipes will warm up more slowly that the ground so the snow sticks around longer where the pipes are.

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Dec 13, 2007 10:31 AM CST up reply actions

Man...

...where have you been the last two months:) Thats about all that kept me going in November, the updates on the amazing reconstruction of our beloved playground.

"Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished: If you're alive it isn't". ~ Richard Bach

by BigZ 4 Cy on Dec 13, 2007 10:36 AM CST up reply actions

Hey, I got finals

and my brain hurts, leave me alone!

; )

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 10:42 AM CST up reply actions

Or it could be they're getting ready for...

football's latest addition to the bowl season - "The Onion" Bowl game -- Chicago Bears vs Notre Dame!

Not to worry - no chance of harming the new sod with those two teams playing...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 13, 2007 10:57 AM CST up reply actions

At first....

....I dismissed the prospect of Prior being available for the Cubs to resign. But I just have to wonder, if he is looking for a one year deal, who in the world is going to give it to him. If he gets out on the market and figures out he will have to give anybody an '09 option, then does he call Hendry back up.

I feel like Prior is scared that he might never quite make it back and is simply looking for more money now whether in a multi-year deal or not. It may be true that no one else is going to give him more than the Cubs. At that point he may come back. If he did I think it would disprove all the speculation about him not wanting to be a Cub. That still may be true, but it may also be true that he is simply scared that the end is near and he wants to make a little more money before he has to find a real job.

"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Dec 13, 2007 10:33 AM CST reply actions

Other Non tenders

Anyone see any possibilities on the non tender list today? I was thinking Josh Towers could look good as a fifth starter. I think his stuff would translate well to the NL. I know we have a plethara (sp?) of back end pitching but i think he could be an upgrade from the other options we have for the back end. But who knows maybe Marshall and Hill will EXPLODE with talent.

Would you rather get Roberts on the cheap after he is named on the Mitchell Report or stay away from him entirely after today?

by chuccck on Dec 13, 2007 10:33 AM CST reply actions

Wood and Prior named

According to CNBC who has the names of those listed.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 13, 2007 10:44 AM CST reply actions

Wow!

...link here http://www.cnbc.com/id/22243678

by seang03 on Dec 13, 2007 10:47 AM CST up reply actions

Looking over that list...

... if it's accurate, there are a large number of players who either had a huge peak that was way out of line with their previous numbers, or players who got hurt often (supposedly, steroids help with healing), and many who had their careers end suddenly.

It all makes a lot of sense.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 10:52 AM CST up reply actions

oh no

not Woody...

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 10:48 AM CST up reply actions

Other players named

according to CNBC

Nomar Garciaparra, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, Miguel Tejada, Albert Pujols, Jason Vartiek, Johnny Damon, Raul Mondesi, Juan Gonzalez, Jeff Bagwell.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 13, 2007 10:47 AM CST reply actions

Neifi...

...is on the list. LMAO, helped him a lot.

by seang03 on Dec 13, 2007 10:49 AM CST up reply actions

Not all of this...

... is for steroid use, I'm guessing, since Neifi was already suspended for alleged use of other PED's.

Didn't seem to help Jerry Hairston, either.

And the naming of Kyle Farnsworth does not surprise me in the least.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 10:54 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah...

...but they are "Performance enhancing drugs" so imagine how bad he would've been without the assistance of a drug, whatever it may be...

by seang03 on Dec 13, 2007 10:59 AM CST up reply actions

No way! Sosa and Bonds!!

In all seriousness though... what does being named mean? Are they going to get banned from the game or suspended or what? This list is seemingly endless...

by GoCubbies34 on Dec 13, 2007 10:57 AM CST up reply actions

Names from CNBC

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Sc hoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.

"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Dec 13, 2007 10:48 AM CST reply actions

Ozzie Canseco

lol!

"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Dec 13, 2007 12:41 PM CST up reply actions

What are they going to do to Ken Caminiti?

"This guy here is dead!"

"Well, cross him off then."

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 13, 2007 12:45 PM CST up reply actions

names

Rumored names on list.....

These are the names on the list (rumor):

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Bar ry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton B radley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozz ie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Fr anklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Jua n Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, jackkindregan (9:54:45 AM) : Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gon zalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, IJason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood."

by gocubsgo22 on Dec 13, 2007 10:48 AM CST reply actions

What is "jackkindregan (9:54:45 AM)"?

Anyway, these were posted at the same time -- it's a tie. I'm leaving both of them.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2007 10:53 AM CST up reply actions

Obviously...

I will appeal this decision.

"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Dec 13, 2007 10:56 AM CST up reply actions

not sure

I got this about an hour ago from a friend "in the know". I was surprised that a complete list was not posted here so I added exactly what I received.

by gocubsgo22 on Dec 13, 2007 10:56 AM CST up reply actions

Full List?

Is this the full list or partial list? I'm actually surprised it's not more than that.

by McRipper on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM CST up reply actions

That is in the 60-80 range that was expected.

n/t

"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Dec 13, 2007 11:18 AM CST up reply actions

Fake list

Check the misspellings.

I wouldn't be surprised if some/many of these names were on the list, but both Deadspin and CNBC have pulled this list from their sites as being inaccurate.

Again, people, WAIT for the real report's release at 1 pm. THEN we'll have facts and can discuss this intelligently.

by Chadnudj on Dec 13, 2007 11:29 AM CST up reply actions

But

I want to speculate now!

by NO100 on Dec 13, 2007 11:40 AM CST up reply actions

No wonder...

...The Orioles dumped Tejada yesterday

by seang03 on Dec 13, 2007 10:51 AM CST reply actions

Deadspin

Deadspin has posted a possible list of names they've received: http://deadspin.com/sports/is-this-the-list%3F/is-this-the-list-of-players-mentioned-333479.php

Many Cubs on the list including Wood, Prior, and of course #21.

Whether or not it's accurate, I don't know. But none on the list really surprise you. Especially this name:

Pujols.

by kidk on Dec 13, 2007 10:59 AM CST reply actions

Brian Roberts

on that one

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 11:03 AM CST up reply actions

As best I can tell

this is the same list that is on CNBC posted above.

"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Dec 13, 2007 11:08 AM CST up reply actions

Lotta Cubbies on the list.

That sucks. Sosa, no surprise. Prior, not really. We knew about Perez, but Wood and Farnsworth tell me it doesn't stop with those 6 during this time.

Heredia? He needed them.

Besides the obvious - Go Irish.

Z. He doesn't need an exclamtion point. He is one.

by PopeFlick on Dec 13, 2007 10:59 AM CST reply actions

Litigation?

I don't know the details of player contracts, but my hunch is that teams' lawyers could credibly argue that players who used steroids were in breach of contract and could therefore sue players (presuming a cause of action is still possible with respect to any contractually agreed-to time limitations). And if my hunch is correct, I wonder whether MLB and Selig will try to minimize the scope of such litigation-- perhaps some sort of mlb/union/team settlement could be arranged.

From an emotional perspective: if a guy like Prior or Wood used juice and such use could be connected to their physical problems, I think they should be financially liable. Of course, their lawyers could counterclaim against Dusty Baker!

"These are terrible times, and I shouldn't joke about them." --Warren Zevon

by ExNorthsider on Dec 13, 2007 11:02 AM CST reply actions

Stadium Name...

Not to be sacriligous here, but isn't Wrigley Field the first field with some sort of naming rights? The Wrigley name, I know, is based on the family which also owned the Wrigley Chewing Gum company, but the vast majority of us today simply don't associate the Wrigley Field name with Wrigley Gum.

Granted, it is a different scenario when new naming rights are purchased, a la Motorola Park at Wrigley Field or whatever, but there's a lot of older Cubs fans that equate Wrigley Field to Wrigley's Chewing Gum Company.

Proudly waving the Cubbie Blue from Northern Missouri! GO CUBS GO!

by Tater01 on Dec 13, 2007 11:04 AM CST reply actions

Wood

Does this mean the Cubs get their $4 mln back?

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Dec 13, 2007 11:14 AM CST reply actions

No.

n/t

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM CST up reply actions

If he's suspended for 50 games

they won't have to pay him that prorated share though.

by NO100 on Dec 13, 2007 11:19 AM CST up reply actions

Interestingly...

CNBC has pulled the story that I took my list from and Deadspin has added a note about this list not being entirely accurate.

My guess, Kerry Woods name was a mistake. It was supposed to be Frank Thomas (how the heck did he get out of this)

"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Dec 13, 2007 11:24 AM CST reply actions

I noticed this as well

n/t

"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Dec 13, 2007 11:25 AM CST up reply actions

Word is

That MLB came out and said that the leaked list is not accurate and this could be why they pulled it. Dont know how accurate this is and do not have a link, but since I heard this the article has been pulled from a few sources.

by okiecubbie on Dec 13, 2007 11:30 AM CST up reply actions

Frank Thomas NOT a User

I think that any claim that Thomas would be on the list or should be on the list is wholly without merit. He was very big long before he came to play baseball and, as a College player, was subject to stringent testing. He's just a "freak of nature" and is one of those players whose natural greatness was wrongly diminished by the actions of those that took Steroids.

by frustratedfan on Dec 13, 2007 12:04 PM CST up reply actions

No way on Frank

Did you ever see him wear an Auburn football jersey?

He's just a very large man.

Saw him play when he was a youngster in Sarasota, in the White Sox farm system. You couldn't help but focus on him during the entire game... cause he was the largest person in the entire park.

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 13, 2007 12:16 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, Frank Thomas

is large in the sense of "Freak of Nature" not "Freak of Roids"

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 12:20 PM CST up reply actions

No offense intended

But so is Shawne Merriman. Being large doesn't mean that you took steroids. It also doesn't mean that you don't think they could help you if you can "get away" with it.

by Kornchex on Dec 13, 2007 12:43 PM CST up reply actions

Clean superstars

Greg Maddux was identified above. Any others?

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Dec 13, 2007 11:24 AM CST reply actions

There's a difference between clean...

...and not caught. I don't think we can know for CERTAIN that anyone in the steroid era. That's the sad lesson that people need to take from this.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 11:26 AM CST up reply actions

Yep

I was glad to see Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez not included.

I guess that's no guarantee.

Also, we don't know yet what exactly inclusion on the list means, do we? I mean, I'm sure many were customers of the clubhouse guy cooperating with the Feds. But maybe some were just named as having bad skin on their backs by the team trainer.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Dec 13, 2007 11:29 AM CST up reply actions

They may be included...

...because the list currently on here is a fake. Check out all the misspellings.

by Chadnudj on Dec 13, 2007 11:30 AM CST up reply actions

Absolutely

for every 50 on the list, there are probably another 50 that used, but did not show up.

Remember one important thing; players who are from Latin America, can get steriods when they are at home much easier than obtained in the states. Hence, the trail of the source is much more difficult to follow.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2007 11:48 AM CST up reply actions

The Cubs are holding on to Neal Cotts...

...withc a one-year deal, avoiding arbitration. So he's apparently in the bullpen mix still.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 11:25 AM CST reply actions

Misery loves company

Seeing all those familiar names together somehow seems to lessen the impact.

When a Gary Matthews or Neifi was outed earlier this year for mis-doings, there was a "wow" factor.

Having all this company for say, Ivan Rodriguez or Albert Pujols, all these very familiar names, kind of reduces the shock of individual names.

The guys on the list should be glad they're being published in a big witch hunt, and not coming out one-by-one.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Dec 13, 2007 11:27 AM CST reply actions

Ahem...

...the list is not yet out. The list you're discussing is a fake. See above.

The misspellings should have given it away immediately, people.

by Chadnudj on Dec 13, 2007 11:30 AM CST up reply actions

Got it the first time

But the misspellings mean nothing.

I assumed someone typed it quickly while reading it off an illicit fax, not copy and pasted from the official report itself.

Still, point taken about fakeness and gullibility (guilty).

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Dec 13, 2007 11:36 AM CST up reply actions

New Mastercard commercial?

Torii Hunter for 5 years... $90 million
Kosuke Fukudome for 4 years... $48 million
Aaron Rowand for 5 years... $60 million

Seeing Corey Patterson in center field wearing a White Sox uniform? Priceless...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 13, 2007 11:28 AM CST reply actions

haha

thats awesome im sendin that to all my friends that are sox fans.

by china423 on Dec 13, 2007 11:35 AM CST up reply actions

Padres

I wouldn't be surprised if he signed with the Madres. He'll come cheap and they're all about that.

by Kornchex on Dec 13, 2007 12:45 PM CST up reply actions

corey patterson in a sox uni

that would be a site to see

by vegasvideopro on Dec 13, 2007 11:37 AM CST reply actions

If Roberts is on the list

Do we still try to get him?

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Dec 13, 2007 11:37 AM CST reply actions

It appears list is fake

http://www.wnbc.com/sports/14845845/detail.html

I wouldn't be surprised if MLB goes ahead and releases the list now to prevent this fake list from getting any further than it has. Doing so might serve the interest of protecting someone whose name shouldn't be tied to the report.

"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Dec 13, 2007 11:40 AM CST reply actions

This is why the first mantra of...

...any mildly competant PR operation is to release information as soon as humanly possible. Right now MLB is not even CLOSE to controlling the release of information here. While MLB Advanced Media is on the forefront of the information revolution, the rest of MLB is woefully behind; the old notions of the 24 hour news cycle are dying if not dead. A lot of organizations need to adapt.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM CST up reply actions

Except

For the fact that this list may be a total hoax, and have NOTHING to do with MLB. Can't blame MLB because news organizations that should know better ran with an obviously fake/false story (I mean, REALLY, look at the misspellings).

Sure, MLB could get this list out quicker, but without the complete background of the report, a list with nothing else would be a half-truth.

Better in this case to get the WHOLE truth (or as near as the Mitchell report comes to it) later than releasing news in drips without context. It's like a Supreme Court opinion - good to know the verdict/outcome, but FAR more important to know the REASONS behind it.

by Chadnudj on Dec 13, 2007 11:49 AM CST up reply actions

Maybe it is a total hoax.

That's kind of the point. If you do not provide information, somebody will. Or somebody will speculate.

A bit of professional background: I used to be in the Marine Corps, and I was in public affairs -- the PR wing of the military, if you will. I was involved in the initial embedding program in Operation Iraqi Freedom (wasn't high up on the totem pole, but I was involved), did other media relations stuff for OIF, and worked in the media office for Camp Pendleton. So this is my "professional opinion," if you will.

We always (except in the case of casualty reports or information that could aid the enemy) tried to live by "maximum disclosure, minimum delay." Because if you don't disclose, someone else will. And sure, it could be absolutely false information. But that's the risk you're taking when you don't do the initial releasing -- you allow some other entity to define the story, and that entity is not going to deliver the message you want.

Plenty of things can be good, correct, morally responsible, etc. -- that doesn't make them successful PR strategies, and MLB is taking a major hit right now every second they stay silent.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 11:56 AM CST up reply actions

This isn't a supreme court decision

The reasoning may be important in the long run, but I don't really need George Mitchell to tell me that players used steroids so they could perform better and that baseball management knew about it and should've done something. What's really important as a fan is who is on the list and how does it affect my team/the players I follow. When MLB put this date out there they knew how much anticipation there would be. That's why they're broadcasting it on MLB.com. They should've just released the report ASAP and processed it later.

"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Dec 13, 2007 11:59 AM CST up reply actions

Darryl Kile

That's just not right having his name on there.

You can't quiet THE RIOT (riotshirts.com)

by TipsyMcStagger on Dec 13, 2007 11:42 AM CST reply actions

Daryl Kile...killed by 'roids?

by Jerry Mumphrey on Dec 13, 2007 11:43 AM CST reply actions

Eckstein

to the Jays... 1 year, $4.5M USD, nearly $4.6M CAD.

by eamuscatuli1881 on Dec 13, 2007 11:46 AM CST reply actions

If Roberts is implicated

I believe the Cubs are MORE likely to trade for him:

It gives Angelos a reason to approve a deal, because it detracts from Roberts' role as a "fan favorite" and face of the franchise
Any punishment is likely to be only 15 games, as the behavior occurred under the previous agreement (a la Jose Guillen)

Free the upper deck!

by cubzfan on Dec 13, 2007 11:56 AM CST reply actions

When talking about the Fukudome signing...

...Keith Law called the Cubs "probably the most risk-loving franchise in baseball." He didn't mean that in a bad way, either. (That should be something to consider when thinking about the nontendering of Prior, by the way.)

I would not be suprised to see the Cubs poking around to see who they can get for cheap after the full results of this list are out. If it happens to be a player the Cubs already coveted, so much the better, I'd say.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 12:02 PM CST up reply actions

mitchell report

I know that Barry Bonds takes steroids, that is a given. But I always got so pissed off when all of these teams and people in general were gushing over Roger Clemens still being able to pitch in the 90's at age 44 (45 now) and everyone wanted to contribute it to his training and no one wanted to consider that ROGER CLEMENS would ever take steriods. Are the same people that bash Barry Bonds relentlessly going to start hounding Roger Clemens now?

Wendyzman

by wendyvhz on Dec 13, 2007 12:21 PM CST reply actions

follow up

Santa if there is one thing I could ask for this year please let it be, do not have Aramis Ramirez, Derrek Lee, Alfonso Soriano, Kerry Wood, or any other Cubs (besides the obvious) on the Mitchell list. If they are not on it, I will not ask for anything from you this year.

Wendyzman

by wendyvhz on Dec 13, 2007 12:26 PM CST reply actions

Who Cares?

Who cares if they are on the list? It's obvious that a large # of players use or used something. I don't even understand the purpose of this list. Everybody knows that baseball, the entire league, was tainted. Sure, there are players that didn't use anything, but in general, baseball fans have known for some time now that something wasn't right, we just didn't want to accept it. Especially during 98.

by McRipper on Dec 13, 2007 12:32 PM CST up reply actions

Well, for starters...

...it would be nice to win some ballgames in April.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 12:41 PM CST up reply actions

The LIST

http://deadspin.com/sports/is-this-the-list%3F/is-this-the-list-of-players-mentioned-333479.php

Wood, Prior, Sosa, Nomar...

"DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY, DOME-AY!"

by IowaCubs- on Dec 13, 2007 12:46 PM CST reply actions

Gammons on ESPN radio

...just said that at least 40 of the names on this list are inncorrect by his sources.

We will just have to wait a little longer...

Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Dec 13, 2007 1:12 PM CST up reply actions

good to hear...

An open invitation to visit Des Moines and watch the Iowa Cubs...

by IowaCubs- on Dec 13, 2007 1:17 PM CST up reply actions

Is the Gledfiddich (sp?) ad

pissing anyone else off?

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 12:58 PM CST reply actions

for those at work without TV...

Mitchell press conference is being carried live on cnbc.com

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 13, 2007 1:04 PM CST reply actions

The official list is available on mlb.com

www.mlb.com/mitchellreport

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Dec 13, 2007 1:06 PM CST reply actions

Looking for Cubs in the report, I find

Matt Karchner
Ismael Valdes
Todd hundley
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Glenallen Hill
Todd Pratt
Kent Mercker
Jerry Hairston Jr

by Richie Hebner 18 on Dec 13, 2007 1:13 PM CST reply actions

I had a Glenallen Hill rookie card

He was such a string bean of a kid. Then, he got HUGE.

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 13, 2007 1:28 PM CST up reply actions

Cubs in the Report

No Prior or Wood or even Sosa.

Matt Karchner (remember him) says that he saw two Cubs inject themselves during the 99 season but declined to name them.

Other players named who were at one time connected to the Cubs: Hundley, Matt Franco, Rondell White, Glenallen Hill, Todd Pratt, Kent Mercker, Jerry Hairson, Ismael Valdez.

Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???

by ksreed on Dec 13, 2007 1:15 PM CST reply actions

Using the find function on my pdf reader..

no mention of Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, or Albert Pujols

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Dec 13, 2007 1:17 PM CST reply actions

Brian Roberts

in the list. I guess this means no new second baseman.

by SouthsideCub on Dec 13, 2007 1:17 PM CST reply actions

No Kerry Wood or Prior in Mitchell Report

but Brian Roberts sure is. Good news for DeRosa I suppose.

"And heeeere cooome the pretzels!"

by NightPutting on Dec 13, 2007 1:20 PM CST reply actions

the report says Dusty Baker

was told by Marvin Benard that Benard was a user and Baker didn't tell team management or MLB.

by Richie Hebner 18 on Dec 13, 2007 1:21 PM CST reply actions

Good speech by Mitchell

Lays out blame evenly on all parties and calls for heavier testing. I agree.

"Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"

by Jettero2112 on Dec 13, 2007 1:31 PM CST reply actions

Roberts

The information about Roberts is really pretty minor. Nothing more than a second hand acoount of him saying he tried steroids a couple times. Nothing about where or when. Of course he declined to be interviewed, but I'm sure the majority of players would do the same.

"I'm not giving him a high-five ever again." - Sammy Sosa, joking about Moises Alou's personal habits

by MorePiePlease on Dec 13, 2007 1:36 PM CST reply actions

Brian Roberts in Mitchell Report

Hardly the kind of steroid use that could dramatically affect performance, but steroid use nonetheless.

Roberts and Larry Bigbie were both rookies in 2001. According to Bigbie, both
he and Roberts lived in Segui's house in the Baltimore area during the latter part of that season.
When Bigbie and Segui used steroids in the house, Roberts did not participate.
According to Bigbie, however, in 2004 Roberts admitted to him that he had
injected himself once or twice with steroids in 2003. Until this admission, Bigbie had never
suspected Roberts of using steroids.
In order to provide Roberts with information about these allegations and to give
him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me; he declined.

"And heeeere cooome the pretzels!"

by NightPutting on Dec 13, 2007 1:38 PM CST reply actions

searchable text version of the Mitchell Report

I made a searchable text version of the Mitchell Report

http://www.drodd.com/html3/mitchell-report.html

by drodd on Dec 13, 2007 1:40 PM CST reply actions

Here is my problem with stopping

at the player level: the Mitchell Report needs to see if there is a pattern to which teams had a high % of players "using" steroids/HGH, etc... By process of elimination, baseball can also learn which teams were running a clean shop (or discouraging this behavior).

That is my problem with this whole Mitchell report. It seems to 100% want to blame the players and not focus on organizations/people that encouraged the behavior. Baseball needs to know which organizations need to be "watched" going forward and which organizations and managements can be thanked for trying to play it clean.

As usual, the player is 100% the bad guy, while the league and owners encouraged the behavior for well over a decade. What a joke! I have a feeling we might find out that some winning traditions in baseball also had a pattern for fostering this "juiced" behavior.

I can't wait for 2008!

by LAcarl519 on Dec 13, 2007 1:45 PM CST reply actions

Agreed

The list is a joke. Of course, they won't name the executives like Selig who knew what was going on. As I said yesterday, this is just an attempt for Selig to be able to say issue closed.

It's also a joke because if they really could get the list of players it would easily be 3 or 4 times bigger. These guys were only named because of the specific people that talked. If they got someone to talk from every clubhouse, there would be a lot more names.

by rlpete on Dec 13, 2007 2:41 PM CST up reply actions

Radomski

Sure... This guy Kirk Radomski was a "bat boy." I hope he goes to jail for a long time.

An open invitation to visit Des Moines and watch the Iowa Cubs...

by IowaCubs- on Dec 13, 2007 2:07 PM CST reply actions

Glenallen Hill

But that homerun.....

"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Dec 13, 2007 2:15 PM CST reply actions

Apparently...

...it wasn't JUST the shoes, Chip:

Rooftop shot

Makes you wonder how connected his spider-nightmare-induced glass coffeetable plunge was...

by Shawon O Meter on Dec 13, 2007 3:50 PM CST up reply actions

lol

that's pretty funny, "It's gotta be the shoes folks, it's gotta be the shoes!"

Uh, no it doesn't.

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 4:34 PM CST up reply actions

Anyone know who Karchner shared

an APT w/ back in '99?

"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Dec 13, 2007 2:16 PM CST reply actions

Mitchell Report

Wow the Orioles named alone... A lot of good it did them.

John Craig

by freudianjtc on Dec 13, 2007 2:18 PM CST reply actions

How about usage in Japan ???

as long as Kosuke is not on any list its a good day.

Just a little post report humor

by parrotinct on Dec 13, 2007 2:50 PM CST reply actions

Motorola Park @ Wrifley Field

How about we get sponsered by Wrifley Gum and let them name the stadium "Wrigley Field"

PIE!!!

by LilLPLancer23 on Dec 13, 2007 3:17 PM CST reply actions

Dare I say that...

...doing so would double our pleasure?

I guess I would.

by Shawon O Meter on Dec 13, 2007 3:55 PM CST up reply actions

Cotts Signs

LHP Neal Cotts agrees to 1-year, $800,000 deal with Chicago Cubs

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-cubs-cotts&prov=ap&type=lgns

by McCarron on Dec 13, 2007 3:36 PM CST reply actions

Let's not have this be McCarthyism

all over again. Most of the guys on these lists were hurt. A light-year ago, I played whatever was in season, and for as long as I possibly could. I got hurt; they gave me cortisone; I went back into the game. If they told me I needed steroids, there's no doubt I'd have taken them willingly. I wanted to play--and to win.

I'm old now, but still able to coach. My son hit one of my BP pitches off my eye last year, and 5 broken bones later, they gave me steroids for my eye. If they had told me that I needed steriods to keep throwing BP, there's no doubt I'd have done it.

The rush to judgment here bothers me a lot. All these guys wanted to win. Most of them were hurt. Somebody with some medical knowledge told they could recover quicker with steroids. Who among us wouldn't have done what they did?

Even the abusers--who were using these drugs for competitive advantage (and there's absolutely no evidence that HGH--a natural substance--gives you a competitive advantage, although it might make you look better striking out)--are better than Pete Rose, who was using inside information to gamble, and who--inadvertenty or not--provided professional gamblers with all sorts of inside information through his betting practices.

Lets try to keep the sanctimonius proselytizing down a bit. If you're hurt--and playing is all you know--you'd sacrifice whatever to get over the hurt and get back to where you were. Hardly any of us would do any different.

by bleacher on Dec 13, 2007 6:44 PM CST reply actions