The Real, Actual List From The Mitchell Report
After the list that was posted in one of the threads earlier this morning was debunked by several sources as being inaccurate, a corrected, complete list was made available. In the interests of fairness, I thought it would be appropriate to post the correct list on the front page of this site, in handy alphabetical order.
For the record, the list contains the following players who have, at one point in their careers, played for the Cubs (I wish to make it clear that this does NOT necessarily imply that these players used PED's while Cubs, nor does it imply in any way that the Cubs organization is culpable): Matt Franco, Jerry Hairston Jr., Glenallen Hill, Todd Hundley, Gary Matthews Jr., Rafael Palmeiro, Todd Pratt, Benito Santiago, Rondell White.
Allen, Chad
Ankiel, Rick
Bell, David
Bell, Mike
Bennett Jr., Gary
Bonds, Barry
Brown, Kevin
Byrd, Paul
Cabrera, Alex
Caminiti , Ken
Carreon, Mark
Christiansen, Jason
Clark, Howie
Clemens, Roger
Canseco, Jose
Cust, Jack
Donnels, Chris
Donnelly, Brendan
Dykstra, Len
Franco, Matt
Franklin, Ryan
Gagne, Eric
Giambi, Jason
Giambi, Jeremy
Gibbons, Jay
Glaus, Troy
Gonzalez, Juan
Grimsley, Jason
Guillen, Jose
Hairston Jr., Jerry
Herges, Matt
Hiatt, Phil
Hill, Glenallen
Holmes, Darren
Hundley, Todd
Jorgenson, Ryan
Justice, David
Knoblauch, Chuck
Laker, Tim
Lansing, Mike
Lo Duca, Paul
Logan, Exavier (Nook)
Manzanillo, Josias
Matthews, Jr. Gary
McKay, Cody
Mercker, Kent
McGwire, Mark
Miadich, Bart
Naulty, Daniel
Neagle, Denny
Morris, Hal
Palmeiro, Rafael
Parque, Jim
Pettitte, Andy
Pratt, Todd
Randolph, Stephen
Rocker, John
Riggs, Adam
Rios, Armando
Roberts, Brian
Santangelo, F.P.
Santiago, Benito
Schoeneweis, Scott
Segui, David
Sheffield, Gary
Stanton, Mike
Tejada, Miguel
Valdez, Ismael
Vaughn, Mo
Velarde, Randy
Villone, Ron
Vina, Fernando
White, Rondell
Williams, Jeff
Williams, Matt
Williams, Todd
Woodard, Steve
Young, Kevin
Zaun, Gregg
If you would like to download a copy of the Mitchell Report, click here. (WARNING! Opens 409-page .pdf file!) I intend to download and read the whole thing at some point, and I'll have more to say about this after I've digested the reports on the two press conferences (watching Selig's right now), and had some time to think about all of it, probably tomorrow.
0 recs |
125 comments
Comments
Greg Zaun
http://www.baseball-reference.com/z/zaungr01.shtml
Hit more homeruns and RBI at age 33 - 36 than his whole career.
by parrotinct on Dec 13, 2007 3:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The only thing worse than the baseless speculation
by Wreckard on Dec 13, 2007 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
See I told you so...
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/story/2007/12/11/164427/32
Sure I was wrong about 3 guys but I was right about 2 of them. I checked the math on this and pulling things out of your ass at a 40% clip is pretty good.
by Kooter on Dec 13, 2007 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Myass
by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a .400 avg
by Kooter on Dec 13, 2007 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Surly, drunk
by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I'm a Surly drunk....
by Kooter on Dec 13, 2007 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't want to speculate
by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There should be..........
All that being said, this is not the end of this. The first list of players that was "leaked" was, IMHO, done so to send a message.
I believe that Mitchell only listed players for whom he had both smoke and fire. The players who were named in the first list were the players for where there was only smoke.
It will be interesting to see if players like Wood, Prior, Nomar, ect. decide to sue the CNBC. My guess is that they will not.
This is only the begining. This is the tip of the iceberg.
by timeforachange on Dec 13, 2007 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They can't sue.
players reputations ( and oh ya they would also have to prove that the listing cost them financial damages). This is why public figures almost never sue in the United States and those few who do almost never win. It takes an extraordinary case like
Carol Burnett who showed that the National Enquirer basically
KNEW that that when the published an article claiming she was
drunk in public it was a lie but short of that you just waste money and expose yourself to discovery hell.
by jessica on Dec 13, 2007 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By naming........
FYI, there have been a number of slander suits brought against the "rags" that have been successful.
by timeforachange on Dec 13, 2007 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
VERY few suits are successful
because the burden of proof is nearly impossible if you are a public figure. You literally have to prove that CNBC postively knew the list was wrong and posted it anyway or were criminally reckless which is an unprovable standard. CNBC could have been, stupid, greedy, careless etc and cost those players dearly but they would still lose.
Now if they had been CRICKET players it would be another story since the laws are virtually the reverse in the UK in that the publishing party must defent the accuracy of the information and will lose if they do publish false materials.
by jessica on Dec 13, 2007 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I want them to sue
MSNBC lied and said they were on the report and they weren't.
I do want them to sue and win and it might stop the media from doing these things. In their rush to be first not checking sources.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 13, 2007 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are a piece of work....
If you can't see the difference between "lying" and being given false information, then I feel really sorry for you. So please, stop with all this "lying" BS that you keep nagging about in regards to the media. It's really annoying.
by jjmarie30 on Dec 14, 2007 3:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The rags...
...there have been a number of slander suits brought against the "rags" that have been successful.
I always liked the defense the Weekly World News would use. It was whatever the legalese version of "Everybody knows we make this stuff up!" is, and they knew very well that the sort of paper (!) that would run headlines like "Green Kids from UFOs Baffle Top Scientists!" is not meant to be taken seriously. They are now gone, sadly, and supermarket checkout lines are just not the same.
The Enquirer, on the other hand, has seemingly tried to rise to the level of credibility of...well...maybe E!, leaving the real nonsense to the Star and Sun and the like. Still, I miss the old B&W Weekly World News. Too weird for words...
by MN exile on Dec 13, 2007 10:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I told you
:)
by Kinky Reggae on Dec 13, 2007 3:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
sorry
I just got done reading the report. Amazing stuff.
by gocubsgo22 on Dec 13, 2007 3:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why Is Sosa listed?
by Jayo525 on Dec 13, 2007 3:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I think we should remove Sammy from this list.
PS- this doesn't mean I think he is innocent OR guilty but we should be as fair as possible.
by Kooter on Dec 13, 2007 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mmmm Flinstone vitamins
by Jayo525 on Dec 13, 2007 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Selig press conference
by grooveska on Dec 13, 2007 3:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Don't think it would matter
by ballhawk on Dec 13, 2007 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to imply
by WittyUserName on Dec 13, 2007 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Roberts?
by RightFieldSucks on Dec 13, 2007 3:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Roberts and 'Roids
I guess my problem is that his numbers aren't THAT much better than DeRo. And that difference might be because of the juice.
Finally, a lot of BCB'ers always wants to toss our guys for somebody else's problem. A lot of our young players like The Riot and Marshall just finished their first full year in the show. Pie was in and out all year and Sam Fuld just at the end of the year. I'm just glad that Sweet Lou is running the show and will work and develop these players instead of kicking them to the curb the first chance he gets.
by wombat on Dec 14, 2007 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't it ironic...
by fuzzycubfan on Dec 13, 2007 4:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It still doesn't change the fact.....
by Kooter on Dec 13, 2007 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Paul Wilson
Dear God did he annihilate him.
Replaying that in my head it makes me think, and I may be in the minority, but I miss Chip and Steve.
by Jayo525 on Dec 13, 2007 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Farnsworth's fight was more like a great
by diehardmark on Dec 13, 2007 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it fair to include Sosa's name
"(I sent similar letters with specific questions to lawyers for Barry Bonds, Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa, and Gary Sheffield, none of whom provided answers to my questions either.)"
by flachimesa on Dec 13, 2007 4:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
All I did was...
by Al on Dec 13, 2007 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I do appreciate you providing the list but...
by Jayo525 on Dec 13, 2007 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
by amisaid1 on Dec 13, 2007 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Based on what?
by Al on Dec 13, 2007 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Names
by amisaid1 on Dec 13, 2007 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where in the report?
by Al on Dec 13, 2007 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Alexander is identified as the
by philadelphiacub on Dec 13, 2007 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Names
Frank Thomas on page 11, 118, 367
Manny Alexander page 97 and 139
by amisaid1 on Dec 13, 2007 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you nuts????????
by timeforachange on Dec 13, 2007 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying he is guilty
by amisaid1 on Dec 13, 2007 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected.....
by timeforachange on Dec 13, 2007 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Using That Criteria
by Goat Whisperer on Dec 13, 2007 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A letter was sent to Sosa's lawyer
by flachimesa on Dec 13, 2007 6:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Piatt
by flachimesa on Dec 13, 2007 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and Larry Bigbie is listed 93 times
Do you still want names that you left out?
by flachimesa on Dec 13, 2007 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Going through the report....
I do not think that makes a worthy case for his name being added to the long list you started the diary with.
by Cubskingdom on Dec 13, 2007 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps you should make that distinction clear...
Being mentioned and being implicated are of course very different things, and it isn't remotely clear that you were only referring to names mentioned.
by SouthernCub on Dec 13, 2007 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100%
by amisaid1 on Dec 13, 2007 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I agree 100%
Guilty
by mweil on Dec 13, 2007 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, OK...
Hope that clears it up.
by Al on Dec 13, 2007 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you mean the former?
In the interest of fairness, maybe it would be best actually clarify that in the title (or diary itself), rather than just buried down in the posts?
The natural inclination is to read this list and assume you're listing those players implicated.
by SouthernCub on Dec 14, 2007 8:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sosa is not implicated in the Mitchell report
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_whatsgoinon/2007/12/sammy-sosa-es-1.html
by amisaid1 on Dec 13, 2007 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What does this mean
Barry Bonds has been the poster boy for records being tainted by PED's but now that someone as celebrated as Clemens being on there, what does this mean?
by DTJchris on Dec 13, 2007 4:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This really takes me back
The sources for some of this may be credible may not. What if just one person is dragged through the mud so Selig can save face? I don't like it.
I have a hard time casting blame on all of these guys at once. A quick read of several sections provides information that would never hold up in a court of law. There is WAAAAAY too much heresay and circumstantial evidence.
by Kooter on Dec 13, 2007 4:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What needs to happen...
Second, the player should be given a 50/100 games suspension. That player should be given the oppurtunity to assist with the ongoing investigation, by supplying more names/evidence to find the rest of the users. If that player reveals names of players that can be proven to have been users, their suspension could be cut in half.
Then, and only then can this be put to rest.
What a Black Thursday for Baseball!!
by BigZ 4 Cy on Dec 13, 2007 4:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So I have a 100 game suspension
There my suspension is cut in half. Yeah for me!
by Kooter on Dec 13, 2007 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Looking through the report...
by Al on Dec 13, 2007 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean they should..
by BigZ 4 Cy on Dec 13, 2007 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So just because their was a rat....
This report was anything but fair...take a look at how many current Red Sox there are....ZERO. And which team does Mitchell sit on the board of? The Red Sox.
Though FP Santangelo does need to be suspended and we need to put an asterisk next to every hit he ever got.
by Kooter on Dec 13, 2007 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Think
Suspensions by Selig, without better evidence in most cases, will be the fuel with which the players' union may well litigate for the next thousand years. Unless there is agreement between Selig and Fehr I doubt we'll see mass suspensions, if any.
The court of public opinion, however, will force many players (Clemens) into retirement and others into less than desirable negotiating positions vis-a-vis new contracts.
For anyone to think the report would have somehow been the final word is really short sighted. It is simply the equivalent of an official letting of the cat-out-of-the-bag.
The game has received a black eye. There will, no doubt, be many more bumps and bruises before it is over. I fear this is only the beginning and I don't feel any differently than I did yesterday. The fact is, it will be years before any of us know the real story.
by Luigi on Dec 13, 2007 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Paging Sen. McCarthy...
Investigations are fine. Calling upon players to snitch upon other players to get their sentence reduced?
Not so much.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 13, 2007 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The denial
by Kooter on Dec 13, 2007 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget disclosure
by wombat on Dec 14, 2007 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wood
by danimal15 on Dec 13, 2007 4:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Me too
by NittanyCub on Dec 13, 2007 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh...
>8)
by Shawon O Meter on Dec 13, 2007 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It sounds like very little was obtained...
For what it's worth, it doesn't sound like this list of names is very good. There are likely to be some names on the list who DIDN'T do steroids, and many names omitted who DID.
by SouthernCub on Dec 13, 2007 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Several of the players mentioned
by rlpete on Dec 13, 2007 5:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
on MLB.TV..
About the former and current (Franklin and Ankiel) being in the report. The dude also praises the Cardinals players/employees/coachs for their cooperation. And how they sumitted all documents for Senetor Mitchell.
WHOPPEY-DO-DA-DEE!! congrat-u-f'en'-lations, I think thats what your suppose to do.
Man if every club has one of these 'jokes', its going to be a long, long, day!
by BigZ 4 Cy on Dec 13, 2007 4:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Great Job Mcfail
by diehardmark on Dec 13, 2007 4:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That's just a sickening list.
I'll wait until I read the report in its entirety before I make too many judgments. Really, really sad.
by Mark H on Dec 13, 2007 5:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
A few comments
Fehr, who I have always loathed actually admitted that they were late to act and certainly seemed calm, unwilling to yell down the report. Fehr did a great job straddling the fence, protecting his union players named but also not closing the door on the real issue.
I do believe that there is a lot more out there and Steve Phillips actually did a great job articulating that. Yes, some names appeared but as Phillips said, there was no middle ground, a few stars named, then a ton of scrubs. To me, this doesn't really put much to rest. There are dozens of Kirk Radomskis and Brian McNamees out there.
DmL
by dmlichte on Dec 13, 2007 5:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
by rlpete on Dec 13, 2007 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know, I know...
by TheEman on Dec 13, 2007 8:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Bush
I don't know why you'd want to throw anything at the screen when he's on. Maybe you have some grudge against the 1987 Twins.
<g>
by Josh77 on Dec 14, 2007 3:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm assuming he was referring to the President...
by Jayo525 on Dec 14, 2007 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Selig did his usual two-face act
In other words, players get prosecuted, owners/MLB get pardoned.
What a tool...
by ballhawk on Dec 13, 2007 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Agreed. Agreed!
The players took the PEDs, but it was a system that made it clear that you needed the juice to compete or there was a guy willing to take your place who would. Who is kidding who?
On another note, it seems big-mouth Clemens now has to sue his trainer for liable, or the trainer sues Clemens for liable (for accusing him of lying to Mitchell). Either way, I would love to see that big Texas schmuck under oath.
by LAcarl519 on Dec 13, 2007 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So the jerk Dylan Rat-again of CNBC
I emailed the gas bag and asked him to retract the statement. Of course there was nothing. What a total jerk. CNBC was still reporting names off the blogs because they were too lazy to read. This is the same way their staff does stock research--half-assed.
by LAcarl519 on Dec 13, 2007 6:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
A lot of people are quick to judge...
by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 7:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
A lot of people are quick to judge...
But people are ready to throw Brian Roberts under the bus just because Larry Bigbie said so. Writing a check to a clubhouse attendant (and admitted criminal) is enough to indict one, as well.
Let's be frank: very little of what's in that report would stand up to a union appeal in the event of a suspension; less still would hold up in a court of law.
And just look over that list, and what do you see? Moral reprobates who ruined our hallowed sport? The worst villains since the Black Sox?
You know what I see? A list, mostly, of people who spent their whole lives trying to be major league baseball players who one day found out they just weren't good enough any more. People who only knew one way to earn a livng and one purpose to their lives, and thought that it was being taken away from them a bit too soon.
They were afraid of growing old, afraid of losing their jobs, afraid of being replaced by younger, better, cheaper players.
Because, evan after the abolition of the reserve clause, baseball is still largely driven by indentured servitude and underpaid labor, thanks to a government antitrust exemption. Most players, by the time they're free to reach a major payday for their talents, have already hit their decline phase. Everyone looks at the big salaries the star gets. Nobody looks at the league minimum, or the wages down in AAA, or the retirement age most of these guys face. And nobody knows what they're supposed to do when they don't have enough left in the tank to play and don't have the money to retire at 35 and don't have the education to move into a new career in middle age.
This is why people like Scott Boras, whatever their faults, are not the enemy. This is why Marvin Miller deserves to be in the Hall of Fame and Bowie Kuhn deserves to rot in anonymity for the rest of time. And this is why guys like Mark Prior aren't loyal to fans like us -- because we will hate them when they're done and we will forget them when they are gone, and they still have to do something with their lives.
Some of you seriously need to start shutting the hell up and you need to start doing it now, please and thank you. For all your talk of integrity and loyalty and other values, you only care for them so long as they produce for you, you turn a blind eye to their offenses while they happen, and then you judge them later for what they did so they could play for your entertainment and you gloat. It is appaling and it is hypocritical and it is wrong.
And if you can't find it in your hearts to find at least some pity for some of these men, then you need to question whether you have a heart at all. And if you can't look at what you as a fan have done and are doing in this era and question your part in it... well, that's your own lookout. But I'm tired of your indignation without accountability. All of us were witnesses. We booed the players as they tried to win a larger share of the money owners were making on the backs of their labor, and we cheered the home runs they hit, and we looked away from what we didn't want to see.
We are not blameless, and we are not in a position to judge.
by cwyers on Dec 13, 2007 7:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent points
Selig lost any respect I may have had left for him when he dodged the question about how Mitchell pointed out even his office should take blame. Any good leader would recognize this happened on his watch, stand tall and say he is partly responsible.
With that said, the players union has played hard ball from the get go, and has fought tooth and nail against testing. They have grown accustomed to winning just about every battle against ownership over the years, but this is one they can not win, at least without harming the reputations of many of their members. If a union is there to protect it's members, I would think they would want to clean PED's from the game as much as anyone else. After all, there is significant medical evidence that using these substances can have serious medical consequences down the road for their members. Bottom line, unless you have something to hide, no player should have any problem submitting to the strictest testing program possible.
I think people are concentrating too much on the Mitchell report list of names. This was only a sample, of those identified by a handful of sources, and there are many many more players who used substances during this same time period. Those not identified either used different sources for their stash, went out of the country and were probably just a lot more discreet in what they did compared to the guys on the list.
In the end, I do think this report will do what I think it was designed to do, force the player's assoc to agree to a more stringent/fluid testing policy. I will say again, there is no reason for them to balk at agreeing, unless they have something to hide. I also agree with Mitchell when he says no punishment should be handed down to players on the list. Since MLB sat on their ass, along with the players union, it's time to move forward and show everyone both sides want to rid the game of cheaters.
by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2007 8:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well said...
- satisfy both sides;
- satisfy the fans;
- and allow the integrity of the game to be reclaimed.
by Al on Dec 14, 2007 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What??
< / sarcasm >
by Goat Whisperer on Dec 13, 2007 7:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Be careful....
This is only the tip of the iceberg. Wait until the "Raw Deal" investigation results come in.
What the Mitchell Report made clear today is that you should believe your eyes and your head, not your heart.
Again, I would not be shocked if Soto were implicated.
by timeforachange on Dec 13, 2007 10:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Am I missing something?
by Jayo525 on Dec 14, 2007 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think.......
Up until this year, he was a career minor leaguer with average at best stats over six years. In 2007, he exploded.
I am not saying that he is guilty. What I am saying is that is the type of jump that raises eyebrows.
by timeforachange on Dec 14, 2007 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The numbers do unfortunately raise eyebrows...
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2007 8:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But will any players take personal responsibility?
And apologize to the fans, especially to kids who hero-worship these guys, play the game and daydream about becoming a major league player someday?
Like Jason Giambi not too long ago.
Or weasel out like Bonds, et al, and throw a hissy-fit proclaiming their innocence and let their personal attorneys release 'statements' to the press, and hide behind Fehr?
God, I'd like to think some of these guys are men.
by JFCubFan on Dec 13, 2007 7:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Our steroid users suck!
by DudeVf11 on Dec 13, 2007 7:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sosa
I believe that Sosa really does belong in that group of players, but I think you're misrepresenting the facts as they've been laid out in the report by including his name. However, it's only a technicality, and I'm sure one day we'll see some evidence of his PED use.
by 60613 on Dec 13, 2007 8:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by mexicubsfan on Dec 13, 2007 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again I agree
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_whatsgoinon/2007/12/sammy-sosa-es-1.html
by amisaid1 on Dec 13, 2007 10:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
one question
by tbizzle83 on Dec 13, 2007 8:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
a PDF search tip:
Or just go to page 131.
by 60613 on Dec 13, 2007 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It is explained in the report
by philadelphiacub on Dec 13, 2007 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is all so pointless.
Players' lawyers barking denials. Selig crying about there being no HGH test was beyond pathetic. What a smarmy pile of garbage. I am impressed that not once could I see Reinsdorf working his strings though.
We are a nation of children.
by TR on Dec 13, 2007 9:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kudos to all players not on "the list."
Not that I'm breathing a big sigh of relief or anything, because I knew none of my childhood heroes would be on this list, but I can't even put into words how proud I am that guys I grew up rooting for like Ryne Sandberg, Andre Dawson, Mark Grace, Greg Maddux, Shawon Dunston, and Rick Sutcliffe were not only great ballplayers, but also class guys, and true professionals in every sense of the word. Even other guys that did not play for the Cubs, but I was a big fan of and enjoyed collecting their baseball cards like Ken Griffey, Jr., Cal Ripken, Tony Gwynn, Don Mattingly, and even guys from enemy teams like Ozzie Smith and Frank Thomas. I wish I could shake all these guys' hands and thank them for being class guys and making me love baseball. For all the scumbags who have stained the game over the years, there are a lot more guys who are true pros, and we should take a moment from the witch hunt to give all the real ballplayers a pat on the back.
by ctcoff99 on Dec 13, 2007 9:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You just know they're not on this list.
It makes everyone feel good and say, "Well, thank God that's over, we got the bad guys." What we have is a partial list consisting of people who may and may not be bad guys. It's absurd.
by TR on Dec 14, 2007 12:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We won't ever know
The bottom line is this: Sure, there were a lot of players' names mentioned. But we will never know how many people did or did not use PEDs, mostly because there was no testing in previous eras. Some of that may be attributable to the clubhouse tradition of "keeping it in the family." Or frankly, managements blatant refusal to accept responsibility for its past actions.
by jjmarie30 on Dec 14, 2007 3:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry...
It's disgraceful and insulting that he chose to lay back and turn a blind eye, under the shroud of "due process," and only look to protect the game's image (for profit, of course). He played fans of this great game like jerks. EVERYONE and their barber knew something was going on!
Selig should resign in disgrace, and then we can finally move on. Oh, and Roger Clemens can "go shit in his hat."
by scottsdalecubs on Dec 13, 2007 9:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but you can't blame Selig only.
by ctcoff99 on Dec 13, 2007 11:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kent Merker was a juiced Cub
My friends from out of town were worried Fukudome might show up on the list.
by section229beer on Dec 13, 2007 10:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd be interested
I'd also be interested to see a list of those that were that CNBC didn't have.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 13, 2007 11:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sosa not named
Nor is Sosa listed in Yahoo's list.
Here's the *only* mention of Sosa in the Report:
these issues, but he declined to do so. I then sent his lawyer a list of specific questions about
whether McGwire had ever used steroids or other performance enhancing substances without a
prescription during his major league career, in the hope that McGwire would be willing to
provide a response outside of the context of an interview. Neither McGwire nor his lawyer
responded to that letter. (I sent similar letters with specific questions to lawyers for Barry Bonds,
Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa, and Gary Sheffield, none of whom provided answers to my
questions either.)
Report at 85 (p. 133 of the pdf) (emphasis added).
Al, you really should take him off your list.
by joeschmitt on Dec 14, 2007 1:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I concur, Al
For the record, I think Sammy did use steroids, but I have no evidence other than my eyes for it, and the Mitchell report does not claim it.
by zambranofan on Dec 14, 2007 7:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Responsive to these requests"?
OK, that's a little snarky. However, you are correct. I got ANOTHER incorrect list. I'm going to make this right, both in editing the original list to take Sosa's name off, and in a main-page post I'm working on now.
by Al on Dec 14, 2007 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot
by Scott on Dec 14, 2007 7:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Umm....
However, looking at the 2000 player roster, I note Ismael Valdez, Rondell White, Glenallen Hill, Gary Matthews, Jr. all graced the team that year. As though 97 losses wasn't a bad enough legacy for that team.
by N Oakley on Dec 14, 2007 8:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting note
by Jayo525 on Dec 14, 2007 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Steroids Era
It doesn't take 1998 away from me. I lived it and enjoyed every minute of it. I guess it turnes out that Sosa and McGwire were both taking steroids. The games were still played.
I just can't find a huge level of outrage about this. You can say that records are tainted, and that is a completely valid opinion, just not one I share. Players from every era have had advantages over players of pervious eras. Players before 1947 didn't play against black players, does that discount Babe Ruth's accomplishments, or Walter Johnson's or Ty Cobb's?
I'd like to think that the overwhelming majority of players didn't juice, but we'll never be able to say for sure.
So I say move on, catch those you can with the testing available, and just understand that baseball will always have a "Steroids Era" like it has a "Dead Ball Era" and a "Pre-Integration Era".
by AlabamaCubFan on Dec 14, 2007 8:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The list
The list of players is worthless. It's a partial list of players some of which may not have even used steroids. There are many users (probably in the 100's) not on the list.
by rlpete on Dec 14, 2007 8:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Prior
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/14/astros-contact-mark-prior/
by em3 on Dec 14, 2007 9:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The quote in that article....
I wouldn't necessarily expect Prior to sign anywhere right away, except possibly San Diego.
by Al on Dec 14, 2007 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
san diego
peavy, young, maddux, wolf, prior, germano, hensley.
not too shabby.
by em3 on Dec 14, 2007 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and on off days they can play...
by cwyers on Dec 14, 2007 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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