I said to my 14 year old 2 years ago he was juiced. He coud not even reach the warning track.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/z/zaungr01.shtml

Hit more homeruns and RBI at age 33 - 36 than his whole career.

parrotinct was a speculator!

:)

for the inaccurate name list I posted earlier but I did preface with "rumored list".

I just got done reading the report.  Amazing stuff.

There was only one reference to Sosa, and was only in regards to his lawyer not responding to Mitchell's request.

on your list if he was mentioned only once in the Mitchell Report, on page 85, as someone whose lawyer was sent a letter but did not provide answers?

"(I sent similar letters with specific questions to lawyers for Barry Bonds, Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa, and Gary Sheffield, none of whom provided answers to my questions either.)"

for Clemens legacy?  

Barry Bonds has been the poster boy for records being tainted by PED's but now that someone as celebrated as Clemens being on there, what does this mean?

It was 1692...Salem, Massachusetts and the PED's of the day were Tarrot Cards and Ouiji Boards.  All it took was a pissed off neighbor.  

The sources for some of this may be credible may not.  What if just one person is dragged through the mud so Selig can save face?  I don't like it.

I have a hard time casting blame on all of these guys at once.  A quick read of several sections provides information that would never hold up in a court of law.  There is WAAAAAY too much heresay and circumstantial evidence.

The press conferences... Selig came out worse than I expected, Fehr better than I did. I will admit that I missed part of Selig's presser but no where did he sound contrite or willing to accept any of the blame. Perhaps this came after the local ESPN radio station here (Austin) went back to local broadcasting. Selig sounded like the typical gasbag that he is. Every Selig speech is filled with arrogance and I thought on a day like today, he'd get off of his high horse. Nope.

Fehr, who I have always loathed actually admitted that they were late to act and certainly seemed calm, unwilling to yell down the report. Fehr did a great job straddling the fence, protecting his union players named but also not closing the door on the real issue.

I do believe that there is a lot more out there and Steve Phillips actually did a great job articulating that. Yes, some names appeared but as Phillips said, there was no middle ground, a few stars named, then a ton of scrubs. To me, this doesn't really put much to rest. There are dozens of Kirk Radomskis and Brian McNamees out there.

DmL

says, "prominent Yankee and Cub pitchers are named in the report."  This was well after the report was released.

I emailed the gas bag and asked him to retract the statement.  Of course there was nothing.  What a total jerk.  CNBC was still reporting names off the blogs because they were too lazy to read.  This is the same way their staff does stock research--half-assed.

...the players on that list. And, sure, a lot of them were expected, based on leaks from the BALCO investigation, or Jose Canseco, or other sources. But people are ready to throw Brian Roberts under the bus just because Larry Bigbie said so. Writing a check to a clubhouse attendant (and admitted criminal) is enough to indict one, as well. Let's be frank: very little of what's in that report would stand up to a union appeal in the event of a suspension; less still would hold up in a court of law. And just look over that list, and what do you see? Moral reprobates who ruined our hallowed sport? The worst villains since the Black Sox? You know what I see? A list, mostly, of people who spent their whole lives trying to be major league baseball players who one day found out they just weren't good enough any more. People who only knew one way to earn a livng and one purpose to their lives, and thought that it was being taken away from them a bit too soon. They were afraid of growing old, afraid of losing their jobs, afraid of being replaced by younger, better, cheaper players. Because, evan after the abolition of the reserve clause, baseball is still largely driven by indentured servitude and underpaid labor, thanks to a government antitrust exemption. Most players, by the time they're free to reach a major payday for their talents, have already hit their decline phase. Everyone looks at the big salaries the star gets. Nobody looks at the league minimum, or the wages down in AAA, or the retirement age most of these guys face. And nobody knows what they're supposed to do when they don't have enough left in the tank to play and don't have the money to retire at 35 and don't have the education to move into a new career in middle age. This is why people like Scott Boras, whatever their faults, are not the enemy. This is why Marvin Miller deserves to be in the Hall of Fame and Bowie Kuhn deserves to rot in anonymity for the rest of time. And this is why guys like Mark Prior aren't loyal to fans like us -- because we will hate them when they're done and we will forget them when they are gone, and they still have to do something with their lives. Some of you seriously need to start shutting the hell up and you need to start doing it now, please and thank you. For all your talk of integrity and loyalty and other values, you only care for them so long as they produce for you, you turn a blind eye to their offenses while they happen, and then you judge them later for what they did so they could play for your entertainment and you gloat. It is appaling and it is hypocritical and it is wrong. And if you can't find it in your hearts to find at least some pity for some of these men, then you need to question whether you have a heart at all. And if you can't look at what you as a fan have done and are doing in this era and question your part in it... well, that's your own lookout. But I'm tired of your indignation without accountability. All of us were witnesses. We booed the players as they tried to win a larger share of the money owners were making on the backs of their labor, and we cheered the home runs they hit, and we looked away from what we didn't want to see. We are not blameless, and we are not in a position to judge.

...the players on that list. And, sure, a lot of them were expected, based on leaks from the BALCO investigation, or Jose Canseco, or other sources.

But people are ready to throw Brian Roberts under the bus just because Larry Bigbie said so. Writing a check to a clubhouse attendant (and admitted criminal) is enough to indict one, as well.

Let's be frank: very little of what's in that report would stand up to a union appeal in the event of a suspension; less still would hold up in a court of law.

And just look over that list, and what do you see? Moral reprobates who ruined our hallowed sport? The worst villains since the Black Sox?

You know what I see? A list, mostly, of people who spent their whole lives trying to be major league baseball players who one day found out they just weren't good enough any more. People who only knew one way to earn a livng and one purpose to their lives, and thought that it was being taken away from them a bit too soon.

They were afraid of growing old, afraid of losing their jobs, afraid of being replaced by younger, better, cheaper players.

Because, evan after the abolition of the reserve clause, baseball is still largely driven by indentured servitude and underpaid labor, thanks to a government antitrust exemption. Most players, by the time they're free to reach a major payday for their talents, have already hit their decline phase. Everyone looks at the big salaries the star gets. Nobody looks at the league minimum, or the wages down in AAA, or the retirement age most of these guys face. And nobody knows what they're supposed to do when they don't have enough left in the tank to play and don't have the money to retire at 35 and don't have the education to move into a new career in middle age.

This is why people like Scott Boras, whatever their faults, are not the enemy. This is why Marvin Miller deserves to be in the Hall of Fame and Bowie Kuhn deserves to rot in anonymity for the rest of time. And this is why guys like Mark Prior aren't loyal to fans like us -- because we will hate them when they're done and we will forget them when they are gone, and they still have to do something with their lives.

Some of you seriously need to start shutting the hell up and you need to start doing it now, please and thank you. For all your talk of integrity and loyalty and other values, you only care for them so long as they produce for you, you turn a blind eye to their offenses while they happen, and then you judge them later for what they did so they could play for your entertainment and you gloat. It is appaling and it is hypocritical and it is wrong.

And if you can't find it in your hearts to find at least some pity for some of these men, then you need to question whether you have a heart at all. And if you can't look at what you as a fan have done and are doing in this era and question your part in it... well, that's your own lookout. But I'm tired of your indignation without accountability. All of us were witnesses. We booed the players as they tried to win a larger share of the money owners were making on the backs of their labor, and we cheered the home runs they hit, and we looked away from what we didn't want to see.

We are not blameless, and we are not in a position to judge.

No Geo Soto?

< / sarcasm >

Publicly.

And apologize to the fans, especially to kids who hero-worship these guys, play the game and daydream about becoming a major league player someday?

Like Jason Giambi not too long ago.

Or weasel out like Bonds, et al, and throw a hissy-fit proclaiming their innocence and let their personal attorneys release 'statements' to the press, and hide behind Fehr?

God, I'd like to think some of these guys are men.

Even as cheaters the Cubs are still losers!  LOL!

Al, I really think you should remove Sosa's name from your list.  The report doesn't actually implicate him in PED use, though his name is mentioned as one of those who testified in Congress (as mentioned above).  


I believe that Sosa really does belong in that group of players, but I think you're misrepresenting the facts as they've been laid out in the report by including his name.  However, it's only a technicality, and I'm sure one day we'll see some evidence of his PED use.

espn is saying derrik turnbow's name was in the report but i cant find it anywhere. anyone else see his name??

But Selig is the pivotal guy to blame here.  There is absolutley no excuse for his not taking charge 5+ years ago and kicking guys out of the league, pending any appeals to re-enter, and sending an appropriate message to any player considering using the stuff.

It's disgraceful and insulting that he chose to lay back and turn a blind eye, under the shroud of "due process," and only look to protect the game's image (for profit, of course).  He played fans of this great game like jerks.  EVERYONE and their barber knew something was going on!

Selig should resign in disgrace, and then we can finally move on.  Oh, and Roger Clemens can "go shit in his hat."

I'd be interested to see a list of the names CNBC had that weren't on the list.

I'd also be interested to see a list of those that were that CNBC didn't have.

per ABC/ESPN's article The List of Players Named in the Mitchell Report.

Nor is Sosa listed in Yahoo's list.

Here's the *only* mention of Sosa in the Report:

Report at 85 (p. 133 of the pdf) (emphasis added).

Al, you really should take him off your list.  

For the limited scope of this report -- and there is no other way to describe the scope of this report -- it is clear that whatever Rodomski and McNamee did, they certainly kept records of something.  I think what this report shows is that the problem was widespread and everyone at some point turned a blind eye to what was going on.

It doesn't take 1998 away from me.  I lived it and enjoyed every minute of it.  I guess it turnes out that Sosa and McGwire were both taking steroids.  The games were still played.

I just can't find a huge level of outrage about this.  You can say that records are tainted, and that is a completely valid opinion, just not one I share.  Players from every era have had advantages over players of pervious eras.  Players before 1947 didn't play against black players, does that discount Babe Ruth's accomplishments, or Walter Johnson's or Ty Cobb's?

I'd like to think that the overwhelming majority of players didn't juice, but we'll never be able to say for sure.

So I say move on, catch those you can with the testing available, and just understand that baseball will always have a "Steroids Era" like it has a "Dead Ball Era" and a "Pre-Integration Era".

This is even worse than I thought and I'm pretty cynical.  Even baseball-reference.com has the list of players.

The list of players is worthless.  It's a partial list of players some of which may not have even used steroids.  There are many users (probably in the 100's) not on the list.